Kimimaro vs. Kakashi

[Kuya]

Healthy Kimi (no sickness)

and

MS Kakashi

Fight's the same place where Lee and Gaara fought Kimi.

[Shik@maru]

if its kakashi with the mangeyko sharingan then Kakashi

If its just kakashi with regular sharingan then Kimimaro

[durtycheese]

since kakashi has the MS ill say kakashi.

[mister_manji]

im thinking that Kakashi's Raikiri could probably pierce Kimimaro's bones. plus, even a regular sharingan should work wonders in fighting a freak like Kimimaro

[Esponer]

Kakashi, Mangekyou Sharingan or not. He's in a different league to Kimimaro.

[little nin]

^ i dont believe that, no MS and i think kimi would have him, kimi is a person that had to die because he would've killed everyone else if not :cry

kakashi with MS takes it tho

[TreeofSephri]

I say Kimmimaro on this one. Kakashi has shown no ninjutsu that would even have a chance at stopping Kimimaro. Kakashi may have Raikiri but whats the point if he pokes out his bones to keep the hit from making contact. Not to mention that the attack is essentially a straight thrust that could be interupted with bone bullets or one of Kimmimaro weapons. Then their is sawarabi no mai is things get messy. Not to mention that Kimimaro would not stand still and wait for Kakashi to send him to another dimenions. Which Kakashi could not anyway because he does not know how to aim the damn thing.

[Esponer]

^ i dont believe that, no MS and i think kimi would have him, kimi is a person that had to die because he would've killed everyone else if not :cry
I don't believe we've seen anything from Kimimaro which suggests he can compete with high jounin. He outclassed three high genin one after one, but he didn't outclass Lee's taijutsu (when he was still recovering) anywhere near enough -- Gai outclasses Lee's taijutsu far more than that, and Kakashi is at the least equal with Gai.

The Shikotsumyaku is a powerful bloodline limit in its near complete immunity to ordinary physical attacks, but the Raikiri would probably pierce it and there's no reason to believe it provides Kimimaro any protection at all from energy attacks, such as Katon and Raiton jutsu (indeed, there's no reason why controlling one's bones would provide any defence whatsoever against fire).

[TreeofSephri]

Yea but Kakashi has not shown us any Katon Jutsus. Not to mention that Kimimaro can make himself a porcupine to make Kakashi think twice about even using raikiri.

[Esponer]

Yea but Kakashi has not shown us any Katon Jutsus. Not to mention that Kimimaro can make himself a porcupine to make Kakashi think twice about even using raikiri.
The Shikotsumyaku's advantage of surprise in close range is mitigated by the Sharingan. Kakashi has indeed not shown us a Katon technique, but that is not to say that he doesn't know them: famed for knowing over one thousand techniques, and using so many Suiton techniques when there's water around even though they are jutsu from other countries, as well as using Doton and Raiton (and Hyouton in filler, but never mind that), it's very improbable indeed that Kakashi knows no Katon. As for Raiton, he has a Raiton affinity and uses an S-rank Raiton technique -- I find it unlikely that he doesn't know any Raiton techniques. Even long-ranged ones.

Think carefully about Kakashi's serious battles. Against Zabuza and Kisame, he used Suiton -- if he had Katon techniques he would not have shown them here as the flames would have been extinguished. He opted not to use Raiton techniques but rather to copy Suiton, which may or may not have been stupid (it seems like the Sharingan's copy-countering is as if not more effective than just shooting back with your most powerful elemental attacks of the element you have an affinity for). Against Kakuzu, he kept to his affinity -- Raiton -- as otherwise he'd be completely out of his league. Against Deidara, we didn't see very much of the actual battle at all. In every battle Kakashi's been in, he's had a good reason not to use Katon or Fuuton.

[narutofangd]

This is one bad fight for Kakashi you had to pick the one guy that in my opinion is the most elegant taijutsu user in the series

Basically it comes down to Can Kakashi stop Kimmi moving long enough to Zap him with MS.

[n_e_j_i_]

kakashi would easily win with MS and it wood be hard for him with regular sharingan

[narutofangd]

I don't believe we've seen anything from Kimimaro which suggests he can compete with high jounin. He outclassed three high genin one after one, but he didn't outclass Lee's taijutsu (when he was still recovering) anywhere near enough -- Gai outclasses Lee's taijutsu far more than that, and Kakashi is at the least equal with Gai.

The Shikotsumyaku is a powerful bloodline limit in its near complete immunity to ordinary physical attacks, but the Raikiri would probably pierce it and there's no reason to believe it provides Kimimaro any protection at all from energy attacks, such as Katon and Raiton jutsu (indeed, there's no reason why controlling one's bones would provide any defence whatsoever against fire).

What are you talking about Kimmi was always steps ahead of Lee and Gaara (who is rated as high chunin at this time) as far as Lee's taijutsu was concerned None of it troubled him. i beleve he even gave Lee a few tips on his taijutsu, even Drunken fist merely surprised him and as far as the Raikiri is concerned if Kimmi stuck is bones out far enough Kakashi would have impaled himself on the bones long before he made contact



And as far as Katon jutsu's go. bones incinerate at a much higher tempreture than flesh that's normal bones not Kimmi's who was able to change the density of his Bones it's is entirely possible that Kimmi could have covered himself in bone skin to protect him from any of Katon.

[Esponer]

What are you talking about...
What I am talking about does not include "Kimimaro was not steps ahead of Lee and Gaara", so I don't understand what you are trying to refute. My argument is instead that Kimimaro was not sufficiently far ahead of Lee and Gaara for me to be convinced that he can compete against high and elite jounin. If Kimimaro tried to fight Kakashi or Gai, he would be slaughtered -- unless his "healthy" state is an entire rank's skill width above his "unhealthy" state.

Kakashi would be wise not to engage Kimimaro in straight taijutsu. The Raikiri is an assassination technique. He's not going to charge at Kimimaro screaming (he's not Sasuke): see how he uses Raikiri against Kakuzu (far beyond Kimimaro's league). Kakashi will deal with Kimimaro using ranged attacks and an unexpected Raikiri if the situation demands it.

[TreeofSephri]

The Shikotsumyaku's advantage of surprise in close range is mitigated by the Sharingan. Kakashi has indeed not shown us a Katon technique, but that is not to say that he doesn't know them: famed for knowing over one thousand techniques, and using so many Suiton techniques when there's water around even though they are jutsu from other countries, as well as using Doton and Raiton (and Hyouton in filler, but never mind that), it's very improbable indeed that Kakashi knows no Katon. As for Raiton, he has a Raiton affinity and uses an S-rank Raiton technique -- I find it unlikely that he doesn't know any Raiton techniques. Even long-ranged ones.

Think carefully about Kakashi's serious battles. Against Zabuza and Kisame, he used Suiton -- if he had Katon techniques he would not have shown them here as the flames would have been extinguished. He opted not to use Raiton techniques but rather to copy Suiton, which may or may not have been stupid (it seems like the Sharingan's copy-countering is as if not more effective than just shooting back with your most powerful elemental attacks of the element you have an affinity for). Against Kakuzu, he kept to his affinity -- Raiton -- as otherwise he'd be completely out of his league. Against Deidara, we didn't see very much of the actual battle at all. In every battle Kakashi's been in, he's had a good reason not to use Katon or Fuuton.


You make a excellent point however if he has not shown it then we cannot assume he knows it.

[Orga777]

.....Will the Kimimaro overration EVER end? He has got to be the absolute most overrated character in the entire series.

Kakashi even WITHOUT the MS would totally trash Kimimaro in less than... oh, I will say, a minute. Kimimaro is not the sharpest tack in the drawer. You know, NOT attacking Lee when he was taking a drink of his 'medicine' and just standing there like an idiot. They were in the middle of fighting and Kimi didn't press his advantage when Lee stopped the fight? LMAO!

Anyway... back to the fight, Kimi also never uses his more devistating attacks until he has too. He starts off as his normal self, and since LEE is able to hit him a whole bunch of times, imagine someone who is FASTER and more skilled than Lee is going to do to Kimi? I will tell you what Kakashi would do, He would Chidori his damn ass. Kimi's sharp bones that came out of him were seen and dodged by Lee. Kakashi would see it even faster with his Sharingan. All he would have to do is put his Chidori in front of him, cut the bones easily, and impale him through the heart. End of story. Hell, even if Kimi DOES decide to use his CS2, Kakashi has the ability to out manuver him, and with the Sharingan, not be caught off guard like Naruto, Lee, and Gaara all of whom are not even CLOSE to Kakashi if you put them all together.

[Esponer]

You make a excellent point however if he has not shown it then we cannot assume he knows it.
Perhaps. That's not how I do Battledome discussions, as I believe it far too quickly becomes completely unreasonable. As an example, we have no evidence that the Third Hokage has any means of escaping from Jiroubou's Doroudoumu (Doryuuheki, Karyuu Endan and Shuriken Kage Bunshin are all inappropriate). But if Kishimoto decided to put the Third Hokage inside Jiroubou's Doroudoumu, then he would escape: he would demonstrate a jutsu capable of doing it. If we only discuss the techniques a shinobi has already been seen to use, then the balance of power that Kishimoto tells us exists falls apart.

[blash]

Kakashi with or without out the MS wins this one. Kimimaro is a great taijutsu ninja, but he's not up against genins in this battle, he's fighting one of konoha's greatest ninja. Kakashi has to many things to lay on the table for kimi to handle him, and the sharingan is a big advantage in this one.

[kidjutsu]

People really should underestimate kimmi. I doubt oro would say he was his love and best prodigy if he werent a very powerful nin. Also, he know that he is pretty strong because he was pwnin pre-ts lee and gaara (even though he was illness) and pwned!!! sound 4. My guess is Kimmi=elite jounin.
Now that Ive said what i think of kimmi ill answer the question: I think Kakashi will beat him. His bone blood limits seems that its a combination of the EARTH element and probably water (which makes sand become heavy and condensed). Because his kekkei genkai is a douton I think we would lose to kakashi's raikiri

[narutofangd]

What I am talking about does not include "Kimimaro was not steps ahead of Lee and Gaara", so I don't understand what you are trying to refute. My argument is instead that Kimimaro was not sufficiently far ahead of Lee and Gaara for me to be convinced that he can compete against high and elite jounin. If Kimimaro tried to fight Kakashi or Gai, he would be slaughtered -- unless his "healthy" state is an entire rank's skill width above his "unhealthy" state.

Kakashi would be wise not to engage Kimimaro in straight taijutsu. The Raikiri is an assassination technique. He's not going to charge at Kimimaro screaming (he's not Sasuke): see how he uses Raikiri against Kakuzu (far beyond Kimimaro's league). Kakashi will deal with Kimimaro using ranged attacks and an unexpected Raikiri if the situation demands it.

For gods sake kimmi showed numerous times during that fight that He could brush of anything Lee threw at him or was it just me that saw Lee dirty and breathless while Kimmi just stood there impassively even the Drunken style that needed Gai and Neji to stop was no match for Kimmi.

As for Kakashi using his jutsu the OP stated that this fight takes place in the same place they fought in the RSA a wide open field where Kakashi can't hide behind a tree and has no back up to distract Kimm you're argument fails

and as far as ranged attacks go Gaara used up nearly all his Chakra with long ranged attacks that Kimm either took or evaded and look at the elements Doton Suiton attacks would be worthless trying to crush him Katon wouldn't work the only ones that would stand a chance Raiton and Fuuton, Kakashi has never shown long ranged attacks

[Esponer]

For gods sake kimmi showed numerous times during that fight that He could brush of anything Lee threw at him or was it just me that saw Lee dirty and breathless while Kimmi just stood there impassively even the Drunken style that needed Gai and Neji to stop was no match for Kimmi.
None of those statements contradict any of my posts. Kimimaro did indeed outclass Lee in taijutsu. But the lower bound of taijutsu skill required to outclass a recovering Lee in taijutsu is specialised, mid to high chuunin level. Kimimaro's probably above that — specialised, low to mid jounin level. But we cannot insist that Kimimaro is on level with elite jounin just because he completely outclassed a genin.

When Lee got drunk with Gai and Neji, Gai couldn't take Lee down without causing him harm. He needed Neji as well so that between them they could stop Lee without hurting him. Had Gai wanted to kill Lee, he would've done it in one jutsu.

As for Kakashi using his jutsu the OP stated that this fight takes place in the same place they fought in the RSA a wide open field where Kakashi can't hide behind a tree and has no back up to distract Kimm you're argument fails"I am argument fails"? Right. When did I make the argument "Kakashi can beat Kimimaro because they are fighting a forest"? It appears that the argument you believe you had shown to fail is not one I ever made.

and as far as ranged attacks go Gaara used up nearly all his Chakra with long ranged attacks that Kimm either took or evaded and look at the elements Doton Suiton attacks would be worthless trying to crush him Katon wouldn't work the only ones that would stand a chance Raiton and Fuuton, Kakashi has never shown long ranged attacksGaara's ranged attacks are still physical in nature, and I've already said those (Doton and Suiton) would be ineffective. The point about Kakashi never using ranged Raiton and Katon attacks (he's used ranged Suiton) does stand, but I've discussed why I think he has those already. And why wouldn't Katon work, eh?

People really should underestimate kimmi. I doubt oro would say he was his love and best prodigy if he werent a very powerful nin. Also, he know that he is pretty strong because he was pwnin pre-ts lee and gaara (even though he was illness) and pwned!!! sound 4. My guess is Kimmi=elite jounin. Kimimaro had a fantastic body. Orochimaru doesn't care about the ninja level of the person. He would've taken genin Sasuke if he hadn't taken so long in arriving. If you rank all the shinobi in the series in terms of how good they'd be for a container, Kimimaro would be right up there. Doesn't say all that much about his level.

He was indeed owning genin Lee and Gaara. The lower bound on the skill required to do that is low jounin. For all of the Sound Four, perhaps mid… but I'm not seeing any requirement for him to be elite.

[blash]

You can't rank kimimaro based on a fight with a bunch of genin. Kakashi is an elite, best of the best. He has a sharingan and he knows over 1,000 jutsu's. No one can just say that Kimimaro can beat Kakashi.

[Zeche]

Done so many times....

Basically. Orochimaru wanted Kimi like hell. It didn't work out. When Orochimaru was dieing or whatever, Kakashi-leveled Kabuto offered himself to Oro as a last hope for saving Orochimaru. Orochimaru was disgusted at the thought of having someone as weak as Kabuto be his body.
Kimi wins.

[Esponer]

Orochimaru was disgusted at the thought of having someone as weak as Kabuto be his body.
Kimi wins.
That argument doesn't necessarily make any sense. We don't know that Orochimaru chooses bodies on the basis of their skill level: in fact, we have evidence to suggest the contrary. Kimimaro is a better container than Kabuto, as Kimimaro would have been a physically fit, attractive shinobi with an extremely powerful bloodline limit and far more stamina and far better reflexes than Kabuto (if roughly the same physical strength).

Orochimaru in Kimimaro's body can be more powerful than Orochimaru in Kabuto's body without Kimimaro being anywhere near as powerful as Kabuto.

Or do you think that Sasuke in Part I was more powerful than Kabuto?

[Neji is the best]

Kikashi would win because he has the speed not to be hit with the bones and his sharingan can detect what kimimaru might do next, also the chidori mite be able to break the bones

[Nahrootoe]

Done so many times....

Basically. Orochimaru wanted Kimi like hell. It didn't work out. When Orochimaru was dieing or whatever, Kakashi-leveled Kabuto offered himself to Oro as a last hope for saving Orochimaru. Orochimaru was disgusted at the thought of having someone as weak as Kabuto be his body.
Kimi wins.
That's completely irrelevant. Don't stretch the truth. The reason Orochimaru didn't pick Kabuto at that point in time isn't made clear. I doubt he thinks Kabuto is weaker than the body he ended up picking.

The reason he didn't pick Kabuto was made clear later: he is the ideal test subject. He can have one Kabuto, or a hundred different bodies. His regeneration just makes him perfect for his purpose.

Kimimaro does have a great body. His body is virtually indestructible, that's why Orochimaru wanted it. This doesn't mean Kimimaro is stronger than anyone else, that's completely irrelevant. It just means Kimimaro would serve as a great container. He would have chosen Sasuke even though Sasuke at the time was chuunin level.

Let's not forget that "Raikiri pierces all." Kakashi is faster than Lee after the chuunin exam. His sharingan will predict Kimimaro's taijutsu, and when in doubt, he can always throw jutsus in his direction to slow him down for one good raikiri through the chest. Game over, extendable ribcage or not.

[Neji is the best]

I don't believe we've seen anything from Kimimaro which suggests he can compete with high jounin. He outclassed three high genin one after one, but he didn't outclass Lee's taijutsu (when he was still recovering) anywhere near enough -- Gai outclasses Lee's taijutsu far more than that, and Kakashi is at the least equal with Gai.

He outclassed lee in taijutsu before lee got drunk, and whilst lee is drunk he is almost impossible to touch e.g, when he got drunk against Raiga, one of the 7 shinobi swordsmen, he cud not be touched by the lightning, plus orochimaru said that kimimaros skeleton is practically immune to all physical attacks, meaning that even if Gai opened his gates, all kimimaro would have to do is strengthen his bone and release spikes all over his body.

Whilst in normal mode, he defeated naruto and lee with absolute ease, he also defeated the sound 4 with ease who whilst in CS2 defeated 2 jounin, one of which, Genma i rate near the level of kikashi, as he managed to stay alive against baki at the chunin exams.

When kimimaro is in CS2 mode he has a tail, can active bone that can break through almost anything, he has his spinal cord as a whip and finally he he has the sawrabi no mai which creates a acrea of pure bone and he can appear out of any of them to attack. Also when he was around ten, in fight against the mist, he defeated around 20 them even making one scream with fear, and they were around chunin level

[Tmb04]

Kakashi would take it. Kimi would put up a fight, but kakashi just has too much skill and experience

[Lemonade]

Kakashi would win this