Trial Tournament - Martryn vs. CrazyMoronX (Round 2, Match 1)

[Kuya]

Hey Everyone. So this is the trial tournament. Real tournament will start soon after this. So observe, vote, and give any input on how to better the tournament for the real one. Thanks!

THE MATCHES AND SETTINGS WERE CHOSEN AT RANDOM BY MY GF.

Setting For Round 2 - New York City
Tournament Rules

1. Vote on the clear victor and it is recommended you state why they would in.
2. Only 1 vote allowed. If later you are persuaded by someone and choose to vote for the other team, then only that vote will count.
3. No Plot No Jutsu. (Naruto doesn’t defeat Kakuzu, Sasori, and everyone just because Kishimoto won’t let him die.)
4. No filler jutsu’s.
5. No Giant or Boss summons except for Enma (Sarutobi) and Pakkun (Kakashi).
6. KWGoD, Aoba, and the Gai hype (Chuck Norris type hype) not allowed. Otherwise, one could have all 3 on their team and own EVERYONE. Please try and be serious and just go off their skills
7. Experience of fighting WITH or AGAINST ninja's are in play. (I.E. if you choose Kiba-Shino-Hinata, they may work better since they are a team and know eachother's strengths and weaknesses. Or... Kakuzu will know to fight Hidan from a great distance since he doesn't want his blood drawn, and because they are partners. Hidan will have an advantage of characters who don't know of his ability). EXPERIENCE IS ONLY IN AFFECT FROM CHAPTER 341AND BEFORE.
8. No Prep Time.
9. It’s a team fight. Team vs. Team
10. 1 point for a vote in the polls. 2 points for a vote as a post in this thread.
11. If caught bribing for votes or cheating (making aliases), you will be disqualified from the tournament.

***Please try and be clear with who you think wins. It would be koo if u can say at the bottom of ur post who wins. (i.e. Winner = Lil Wayne)

Martryn vs. CrazyMoronX

Martryn
Team Martryn

1. Old Sarutobi w/ Enma
2. Post Sakura
3. Asuma
4. Pre-Ino (Chuunin Exams)
5. Pre-Chouji (Chuunin Exams)

vs.

CrazyMoronX
Team Sexy
1. Kakashi w/o MS
2. Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval Arc)
3. Sick Kimimaro (CS2 Allowed)
4. Pre-Shikamaru
5. Pre-Ino (Chuunin Exams)

[Kyon]

New York City? :laugh

Martryn
Team Martryn

1. Old Sarutobi w/ Enma
2. Post Sakura
3. Asuma
4. Pre-Ino (Chuunin Exams)
5. Pre-Chouji (Chuunin Exams)

vs.

CrazyMoronX
Team Sexy
1. Kakashi w/o MS
2. Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval Arc)
3. Sick Kimimaro (CS2 Allowed)
4. Pre-Shikamaru
5. Pre-Ino (Chuunin Exams)

Shikamaru has a LOT of places for his shadow to sticky to, and suddenly becomes a super long range fighter. He can easily capture his other two comrades and Kimimaro would dispose of them, then with Ino rejoin the fray. They can all hold off the other three while Shikamaru hides somewhere and strategizes. Gaara alone can probably handle post Sakura and Asuma, perhaps getting some assistance from Kimimaro while Kakashi/Ino/Shika conduct a plan to trap Sarutobi and Shintenshin him. Enma complicates things, but he is really more of a supplementary fighter and could be held off by any of the three powerhouses on CMX's team.

Winner=CMX.

[Spell]

New York City is a joke or you're dead serious :laugh

I don't think it would be a good locotion for shinobi battles xD

[Grrblt]

NYC seems like a good location for Shika but a poor location for Gaara. As Sakura and Kimi smash the crap out of large buildings, Shika is going to rule this battlefield supremely because of all the debris casting various shadows.

[Kai]

Asuma and Kakashi both don't want any sluts on their team, so once the battle begins they instantly kill the Inos that are on the other team.


Edit: After analyzing it a bit, CrazyMoronX pulls off a difficult victory.

[CrazyMoronX]

Martryn
Team Martryn

1. Old Sarutobi w/ Enma
2. Post Sakura
3. Asuma
4. Pre-Ino (Chuunin Exams)
5. Pre-Chouji (Chuunin Exams)

vs.

CrazyMoronX
Team Sexy
1. Kakashi w/o MS
2. Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval Arc)
3. Sick Kimimaro (CS2 Allowed)
4. Pre-Shikamaru
5. Pre-Ino (Chuunin Exams)

Asuma might be a good match for Kimimaro, with his wind element cutting through his bones, possibly. But, he didn't look too fast against Hidan and Kakuzu.

In New York, Gaara could still get some sand, as there are minerals under the asphalt, and, of course, in the various parks they have. So that shouldn't be too much of a problem for him.

Sarutobi and Asuma would give my team a few problems, but I think my team can manage it. Kakashi with his Sharingan would be a good asset copying Sarutobi's various jutsus and countering them with a stronger element. Kimimaro would probably want to take on Asuma, even though he is not the best match up, but he will need assistance from Shikamaru. Shikamaru knows all about Asuma, so this is very BAD for him.

Gaara and Ino would give Sakura and Chouji plenty to think about (not so much Ino, more of a distraction). And I could see him, even pre-skip, taking them both down. Sakura could pose a problem, but his sand defense is very tight, and Sakura isn't that much faster even post-skip. Ino would control Chouji while Gaara takes down Sakura, then focuses in on Chouji before Ino loses it.

This will be a tough battle. I can see Kimimaro and Shika taking down Asuma rather quickly, as Shikamaru knows Asuma's moves, can bind him temporarily (long enough for Kimi to get in a kill), and Kimimaro is no slouch really. Asuma could possibly dispatch Kimimaro, but with Shikamaru there to help, I don't see this happening.

Kakashi and Sarutobi squaring off along would be a bad idea, as Kakashi would go down eventually. He would put up a decent fight, I think, but the fight wouldn't last too long. I think Kakashi can last long enough post-skip to hold Saru at bay until Kimimaro comes to his side. Kimimaro is going to be hard to Saru to kill from what he's shown us, other than Death God. If he uses that, he loses anyway.

After Gaara and Ino come into play, things look grim for the old man. He could probably still take out a few of them, but it'll be too much.

My team wins, of course! :nuts

[martryn]

Can someone change my vote over to my team?

I see lots of people voting based on Shikamaru. Need I remind you that this is Pre-Shikamaru? This is the guy that runs out of stamina after two minutes of fighting. Not to mention every member of my team knows of Shikamaru's ability, and I hardly think someone like Asuma or Sarutobi are gonna fall into his shadow bind.

Gaara is also at a disadvantage as all the dirt/sand is locked away under asphalt/concrete. He's not going to be pulling off any major jutsus like he did against Kimi, as he doesn't have the raw material for it. I mean, ha ha, he could retreat to a park, I suppose, and try it there, but I frankly see my team not following him when he panics and runs like that (uncharacteristic of him, isn't it)?

Shikamaru might know some of Asuma's jutsus, but I hardly think a pre-Shikamaru knows of all of them. He might not be aware of how badass his chakra blades are, which could be trouble. If they can cut through stone like butter, Kimi isn't gonna stop them with bone, and, come to think of it, I don't see Gaara's sand stopping it either, as I don't think he can make it dense enough.

As for Kakashi countering Sarutobi's jutsus with something stronger, I highly doubt it. Neither one are beasts when it comes to stamina, but I can assure you that Sarutobi knows the more powerful jutsus here, and he also knows everything the sharingan is capable of. I see Kakashi dropping fast against the kage. I mean, if he got trapped that easily in a Zabuza water prison, how would he stand against someone leaps and bounds over Zabuza?

Of course, as always, there is Sakura to heal any injuries that the team might suffer. She can probably hold her own against an impaired Gaara as well, since she knows of his strengths and is a masterful dodger.

So three people on my opponent's team are pretty useless if this fight goes on for five-ten minutes (Shikamaru, Kakashi, and Kimi) one of them being dead. My team only has one person that suffers from lack of chakra, and it has staying power in that it can heal any wounds suffered. Being New York, and having plenty of places to hide, serves my team better in that many of my opponents are restricted (Gaara) or can't utilize their jutsus to the fullest extent (Kimi).

If Sarutobi started this fight by taking on Kakashi and Gaara/Kakashi and Kimi/Gaara and Kimi, I'm pretty sure he can hold his own and it's rather likely he can take out two of Moron dudes guys. Asuma and Sakura own the other guy, unless it's Kakashi, and then they have some trouble and still probably win. The Ino's cancel out, and Shikamaru is most likely a non-factor, as Asuma or Sarutobi know what he's capable of and will likely either be watching for it or just go in and own Shika quick from the beginning to get him out of the way.

I still say this is a resounding victory for my team.

[Orga777]

I am going with martryn's team here. Pre-Shika is far from what I would call dangerous, even in this environment. He would be wiped out by most of the characters on the other squad, especially since his teacher is on the other side as well as a former Hokage. Ino's... well they are dead two milliseconds into the match so they don't matter either. Chouji is also a non-factor in this fight.

It comes down to Asuma, Sarutobi, and Sakura on M's team, and Kimi, Kakashi, and Gaara on CMX's team. Looking at it, Sakura is a good distraction and good for support with her medical jutsu. She has the powerful attacks and her endurance greatly increased (she was still willing to fight with a poison katana shoved into her torso after all.) She will definitely be some trouble for the other team for at least a couple minutes. In that time with her taking up at least one other member of the remaining team, it gives Sarutobi enough time to completely obliterate one of the other remaining enemies.

Asuma is actually a good opponent for either Kakashi or Kimimaro in this fight. he is just as fast as Kakashi, and his knives should be able to cut through Kimi with out too much trouble. Gaara is a big threat, but he will have trouble getting sand out from under the ground in an area covered by concrete and steel as stated before. He will be dealt with by either Asuma or Sarutobi. Sakura will probably end up being killed by the one she is distracting, but two on one, it won't matter. I am going with Team Martryn here.

[CrazyMoronX]

Kakashi had no problem avoiding Kakuzu's S-Class elemental attacks, and Kakuzu is kage level. He also didn't use the MS. I don't see why he couldn't keep up with Sarutobi for a while. His stamina has also increased, as he did 3 Chidoris in that fight, and still kept going.

Being in NY will be Kakashi's advantage as well, since he can sneak attack Raikiri Asuma, like he did to Kakuzu.

As for Gaara's mineral issues, well, there are still openings in the sidewalks. The trees planted around on every street corner, for intsance. I think he should be able to function at least within 50% of what he did with Kimimaro. Which was very impressive.

As for Asuma's blades, Gaara wouldn't have to block them, he could use his sand to slow them down, while re-directing them. Kimimaro would fall victim to them, I would imagine. IF he didn't simply dodge them. Which he would do.

As for Shika being a non-factor in the fight, that's possible. But this is supposed to be a teamwork fight with experience in play. It has to count against Asuma, Ino, and Chouji. He made plans effectively during battle while fighting sound 4, so he should be of some help there. Maybe not too much I guess.

I can see Kakashi taking out Asuma quickly with a sneak attack, or even a frontal attack. I don't see what Sarutobi can do against Kimimaro, other than spam jutsus at him that won't really hurt him. So, Kimi could keep him busy while Kakashi kills Asuma, taking down one of their power-houses.

[Spell]

Kakashi had no problem avoiding Kakuzu's S-Class elemental attacks, and Kakuzu is kage level. He also didn't use the MS.
Isn't your Kakashi pre-timeskip and without MS?

but I can assure you that Sarutobi knows the more powerful jutsus here, Sure he knows them, but it's debatable if he is able to use them.

and he also knows everything the sharingan is capable of.
How do you know that? His knowledge of sharingan is probably considerable but I doubt that he knows all its secrets.

[martryn]

Kakashi had no problem avoiding Kakuzu's S-Class elemental attacks, and Kakuzu is kage level.

I wouldn't say he had no problem, as his clothes were being blown off all fight.

As for Asuma's blades, Gaara wouldn't have to block them, he could use his sand to slow them down, while re-directing them. Kimimaro would fall victim to them, I would imagine. IF he didn't simply dodge them. Which he would do.

Asuma's taijutsu rating is a 4.5 out of 5. I hardly think Kimi can go that long without taking a single blow, not to mention that Asuma has shown powerful katons to back that up.

He made plans effectively during battle while fighting sound 4, so he should be of some help there.

His plans didn't end up working, remember?

I can see Kakashi taking out Asuma quickly with a sneak attack, or even a frontal attack. I don't see what Sarutobi can do against Kimimaro, other than spam jutsus at him that won't really hurt him. So, Kimi could keep him busy while Kakashi kills Asuma, taking down one of their power-houses.

And I think you're full of it if you think Kimi is capable of being any sort of threat to Sarutobi. And saying Sarutobi wouldn't have anything to hurt Kimi? Hardly. Kimi is no kage level fighter, especially sick. If he were, a drunk Lee wouldn't have been much of a fight for him.

Sure he knows them, but it's debatable if he is able to use them.

He might not have as much chakra as he used to, but I don't think we can say he has none. He seemed capable enough spamming high level techniques in the fight against Oro.

How do you know that? His knowledge of sharingan is probably considerable but I doubt that he knows all its secrets.

Just like Kakashi knows all of the sharingan's secrets? Sarutobi was definitely knowledgeable of the sharingan, and it's not like Kakashi has some sort of secret sharingan technique that he wouldn't know. Zabuza not knowing is one thing, since he was a missing nin and not from Konoha and sorta out of it for a while. He wasn't the hokage, knowledgeable of all Konoha jutsus, and alive and active during the peak of the Uchiha clan.

[CrazyMoronX]

What has Sarutobi shown, other than the death god, that could possibly hurt Kimimaro? His skin melting off by a katon wouldn't really phase him, most of his skin was ripped off by Gaara's sand, yet he still kept coming.

As for Asuma, he might have a high rating, but all he has shown to be able to do is cut some guy's head off. Kimi's ranks are also high, and I believe their speed ratings are the same, but I don't remember.

As for Kakashi being pre-skip, the list didn't specify. It just said NO MS, as in he cannot use it. He didn't use the MS fighting Kakuzu, so, why not?

As for Shikamaru he didn't even know any of the sound ninjas. Once he knew about Kakuzu and Hidan he was able to formulate a winning plan, and even incorporate Kakashi into the plan at the last second. But, that's not really debatable. I don't think that should even be allowed anyway, but whatever.

[Gooba]

I'm sorry I haven't read all of this thread, because nothing in it is going to come close to convincing me CMX's team could deal with Saru and Enma alone. Both of them are Kage level fighters, against a Jounin, some Chuunin, and a Genin.

Here is how the fight would go: Enma squares off against Kakashi for as long as needed (about 10 seconds) while Sandaime does some big impressive I'll-show-you-why-they-called-me-GOD-of-the-Shinobi techniques to obliterate the weaklings in the fight, then he goes back and cleans up Kakashi without much difficulty. While all that is happening Asuma, Sakura, Ino, and Chouji are busy getting dinner for the freaking Sandaime Hokage.

Kakashi crapped his pants when Oro was in the same room as him, and Sandaime fought equally against Oro+2 Hokages. Saying Kakashi is able to solo Sandaime, even with the help of some chuunin/genins is just insulting.

[iander]

Martyn wins I believe. Both Sarutobis will be quite deadly in NYC as would Kakashi. However, Gaara would be handicapped and Kimi is more a linear in the open fighter (plus NYC is not a healthy place for someone with a disease, those birds are full of diseases). Enma will help greatly in the match considering how versatile he is.

[Gooba]

As far as Shika goes, sure he did great post-skip against Hidan, but preskip his track record is inevitable death for everyone including himself twice if not for other people coming in and saving his ass (Asuma/medics/Lee/Sand trio). I have a feeling a battle of battle planning between the Professor Sarutobi with years of fighting wars under his belt, and a Genin who can't even develop a strategy to beat Temari would be pretty one sided.

[Aman]

The last two in each team won't do any difference (and the small difference they will make won't matter since the ones left in the winning team will finish them off, if they don't do it during the fight), so I'll just look at the first three in each team.

Team Martryn:

1. Old Sarutobi w/ Enma
2. Post Sakura
3. Asuma

Team Sexy:

1. Kakashi w/o MS
2. Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval Arc)
3. Sick Kimimaro (CS2 Allowed)


Personally, I think that Asuma is underrated, while Kimimaro (sick or healthy, doesn't matter) is overrated. And having Gaara be pre-timeskip aswell is a bit unfair to the other team IMHO.

Asuma would fight Kakashi while Sakura faces off against Kimimaro with some help from Enma, and Sarutobi would finish off Gaara quickly and let Enma help Asuma defeat Kakashi, if he feels lazy.

That simple, Team Martryn wins.

[Spell]

He might not have as much chakra as he used to, but I don't think we can say he has none. He seemed capable enough spamming high level techniques in the fight against Oro.
Spamming high level techniques? When? The only one high level jutsu he performed was Shiki Fuujin. Nothing more. Even creating 2 Kage bushins was an effort for him.

Just like Kakashi knows all of the sharingan's secrets? Sarutobi was definitely knowledgeable of the sharingan, and it's not like Kakashi has some sort of secret sharingan technique that he wouldn't know. Zabuza not knowing is one thing, since he was a missing nin and not from Konoha and sorta out of it for a while. He wasn't the hokage, knowledgeable of all Konoha jutsus, and alive and active during the peak of the Uchiha clan.
The main difference between Kakashi and Sandaime is that Kakashi knows Saringan abilities from experience. We have no evidence to state Sarutobi's knowledge of sharingan is comparable to any sharingan user.

Here is how the fight would go: Enma squares off against Kakashi for as long as needed (about 10 seconds)
Do you have any evidence Enma would be able to do it? while Sandaime does some big impressive I'll-show-you-why-they-called-me-GOD-of-the-Shinobi techniques to obliterate the weaklings in the fight,
Yes they called him God of shinobi, but old Sarutobi is not the one he used to be. What why-they-called-me-GOD-of-the-Shinobi techniques is he able to use now? His chakra is damn limited, he won't be able to perform such powerfull jutsus again and again, fight with Oro proved that.

Also who do you call weaklings? Gaara and Kimimaro?

Don't get me wrong, I do not state Sarutobi is weak, my intention is to show you Sarutobi isn't God anymore.

[Aman]

Spamming high level techniques? When? The only one high level jutsu he performed was Shiki Fuujin. Nothing more. Even creating 2 Kage bushins was an effort for him.
The Karyuu Endan, Doryuuhekki, Shuriken Kage Bunshin and Enma summoning weren't high level techniques? The first three are all A rank (aka Kage level) techniques, and the third one is basically a Boss level summoning. And he used the Shiki Fuujin, a S-ranked technique and he made Kage Bunshins, that's a B-rank (or Jounin) level technique.
Also who do you call weaklings? Gaara and Kimimaro?
A common opinion is that both of them were low jounin level at the time, not to mention they were both lacking in experience.

[Gooba]

Also who do you call weaklings? Gaara and Kimimaro?Yes, as well as Ino and Shika.

Do you have any evidence Enma would be able to do it?He is a Kage level summon, he has to be able to hold out ofr at least 10 seconds against a Jounin.

Yes they called him God of shinobi, but old Sarutobi is not the one he used to be. What why-they-called-me-GOD-of-the-Shinobi techniques is he able to use now? His chakra is damn limited, he won't be able to perform such powerfull jutsus again and again, fight with Oro proved that.He pulled off plenty there, and I have a feeling him pulling out any one or two of his best techniques would be able to take out such inexperienced nins whom he is fighting.

[Aman]

He is a Kage level summon, he has to be able to hold out ofr at least 10 seconds against a Jounin.

I think he misunderstood you and thought that you said that Enma would finish Kakashi in 10 seconds.

[Gooba]

Ooh, no *despite however much I might think that* I just meant that Enma would keep Kakashi busy while Sandaime beat the rest of his team, then Sandaime would go back to take care of him.

[Sarutobi Satoshi]

I vote for Martryn here's why:

As many have said Sandaime can take all of CMX team with no swett if CMX had a kage on his team then that would be a fair match than this.

As for Asuma he and Kakashi are almost of the same level despite how he lost his stats is only bested by Kakashi in Konoha Gai comes in third becoase he doesnt have high Nin/Genjutsu but no matter how thier stats are like those three are the best Jounin in Konoha no matter what would the Asuma haters would think or say that wont change his power and rank as an elite Jounin in Konoha.

Although if CMX had Yondaime on his team that would've been a better fight it would be like Sandaime VS Yondaime and Asuma VS Kakashi all are my favs in the series and very powerfull.

[Feral]

Preskip Genin = basically unimportant.

Almost any matchups of the remaining 3 are in Martryn's favor.

Sarutobi matches over anyone, Asuma matches Kakashi and matches over the rest, while Sakura can't beat Kakashi, but could take Gaara or Kimimaro (especially Kimimaro. She can break through his bones easily).

The only one who's going to keep Sarutobi busy for very long is Kakashi (who is still outmatched), and allowing Asuma and Sakura to fight Gaara and Kimi is overkill. Both have ways of breaking through Kimi's bone defense, and likely Gaara's as well. Asuma is easily faster than pre-skip Lee, and with chakra blades, he can slice Gaara in half. Sakura might not be able to defeat Gaara as easily, but I don't think that she would be useless, especially since she can heal any teammate.

Even if those two can hold their own (which I doubt), when Sarutobi is done with Kakashi, it's over for them.

[Toomin]

Martryn
Team Martryn

1. Old Sarutobi w/ Enma
2. Post Sakura
3. Asuma
4. Pre-Ino (Chuunin Exams)
5. Pre-Chouji (Chuunin Exams)

vs.

CrazyMoronX
Team Sexy
1. Kakashi w/o MS
2. Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval Arc)
3. Sick Kimimaro (CS2 Allowed)
4. Pre-Shikamaru
5. Pre-Ino (Chuunin Exams)

Wow, this is one crazy fight! Ok, I'm going to have to go with Team Marty here.

Sarutobi summons Enma, and together they can take on either Kakashi or Gaara, it doesn't matter. Kakashi can try to copy some the jutsu Sarutobi will use, but I don't think he has the chakra affinity for all of them. We've never seen him use a fire jutsu, or wind or earth for that matter. Post Sakura and Asuma can take out Kimimaro (even w/CS2, I think they can get him before he performs his Bone Forest jutsu thing, as I would imagine that takes some time to get ready. If Sakura gets one hit in, Kimi is crippled.). Shika w/Ino I think could take out Ino and Chouji, but I think his stamina is way too low to be able to take on Sarutobi or Asuma afterwards, no matter how good his strategy is (and it is very good). However, if we're allowing Gaara to go into Shukaku mode, then I think Team Sexy wins. I don't think we are though, so Team Marty wins.

[Spell]

The Karyuu Endan, Doryuuhekki, Shuriken Kage Bunshin and Enma summoning weren't high level techniques? The first three are all A rank (aka Kage level) techniques, and the third one is basically a Boss level summoning. And he used the Shiki Fuujin, a S-ranked technique and he made Kage Bunshins, that's a B-rank (or Jounin) level technique.
Sorry but you're wrong. Katon: Karyuu Endan, Doton: Doryuu Heki are both B rank jutsus. Summoning is C rank, only shuriken KB is an A rank jutsu. Well they could be considered as a high level jutsus, but it depends on how you treat it.

A common opinion is that both of them were low jounin level at the time, not to mention they were both lacking in experience.
Seems it's not so common opinion. However I could agree with you. Gaara (SRA) lack experience, but his power and abilities are comparable to an avarage jounin. Kimmimaro was formerly chosen as Oro's body container, he couldn't be weak.

Yes, as well as Ino and Shika.
Shika could outsmart Sarutobi in few seconds. If he had some good teammates (jounin level would be enough) there would be no problem to beat old Sarutobi.

He is a Kage level summon, he has to be able to hold out ofr at least 10 seconds against a Jounin.
The fact Enma is a Kage level summon does not mean he would be able to hold Kakashi for 10 seconds. He almost did nothing during Oro fight, some snakes owned him in an instant.

He pulled off plenty there, and I have a feeling him pulling out any one or two of his best techniques would be able to take out such inexperienced nins whom he is fighting.Please state what techniques and I will debate.:amuse

[CrazyMoronX]

This is exactly why I didn't like Sarutobi in the fight. He's too speculative.

With what he showed in the Orochimaru fight, he couldn't even defeat Kakashi. Kakuzu showed much more than Sarutobi in his fight, and almost had Kakashi, after Kakashi already took most of his moves and even took out a heart.

There's nothing that leads me to believe he could even take Kimi or Gaara pre-skip, with what was shown. Sure, he did some high-rank jutsus, but both Kimi and Gaara have defense so high it wouldn't really phase them.

I guess in a speculative match, Sarutobi wins. But, what has he shown that can take eihter Gaara or Kimimaro? I'll agree that neither would actually beat him, with what he went through vs Oro, but failing death god, he has nothing to kill either. Either of them would keep him busy while the rest of the team kills everyone else.

[Gooba]

I forgot, the Hokage of a village is regularly weaker than its Genin. I retract my argument.

[Toomin]

Shika could outsmart Sarutobi in few seconds. If he had some good teammates (jounin level would be enough) there would be no problem to beat old Sarutobi.
Um, Sarutobi isn't Hokage for nothing. He has strategic skills for sure. Whether they're at Shika's level or above we don't know. Yes, this is somewhat a speculation fight, mostly because all we've seen of Sarutobi is when he's an old man; if this fight had him in his prime, whatever side he's on wins automatically. However, this aside, I'm sure he could figure out a way to win. As it's been said, Shika may have strategy on his side, but his stamina is no good for a fight like this.

[Spell]

I forgot, the Hokage of a village is regularly weaker than its Genin. I retract my argument.
Sorry but "he is the Hokage" is a noob argument in Battledome. It of course this fact proves he had to be Hokage level, because he wouldn't be chosen if not. However battledome is made for battles, not assumptions.
Too chose a winner we need evidence and facts, we have to know the strength and abilities of fighting shinobi, because we have to make a comparison.

I can make a fight AL vs Gai. Who would win?
It is obvious that AL should be stonger, but do you have evidence to state that? What jutsu would AL use to beat Gai?

Um, Sarutobi isn't Hokage for nothing. He has strategic skills for sure. Whether they're at Shika's level or above we don't know.
Shika's inteligence is over 200, I really doubt Sarutobi could compete with him.

[Gooba]

Sorry but "he is the Hokage" is a noob argument in Battledome.Sorr,y I've never been the the Battledome before now, forgive my noobishness. This place is big and scary for those of us with no experience debating in a format like this. :iik I need a blankey.

However battledome is made for battles, not assumptions.
Too chose a winner we need evidence and facts, we have to know the strength and abilities of fighting shinobi, because we have to make a comparison.

I can make a fight AL vs Gai. Who would win?
It is obvious that AL should be stonger, but do you have evidence to state that? What jutsu would AL use to beat Gai?All we do in here is make assumptions based on the evidence we have. We aren't trying to scientifically prove anything in here. There is too little information for that, as demonstrated by the amount of assumptions which need to be made about certain people. We don't know very much about Sandaime other than 4 techniques he will use before he gets serious, and 1 technique he can use after he gets serious. To say those are the only techniques we can use to judge whether or not it is more likely for him to win a fight makes no sense. When trying to determine who is more likely we can make assumptions such as Sandaime, the Professor, knows more than 5 jutsus because that is more likely true than not.

No matter how you try and debate, you are making just as many assumptions as I am. When I say he does have a jutsu that could beat a freaking Genin I am making that assumption based on him being Hokage which is defined as "better than everyone in Konoha, from the Genin to the highest Jounin." When you say he doesn't, you are assuming that based on the fact he didn't use it in 1 very short fight. To figure out which one is more likely to be right we have to weigh both of those arguments and see which is holds more weight.

I agree, if we were trying to prove this in a court I couldn't prove Sandaime wins without a shadow of a doubt, however, the amount of questions you would be forced to say "I don't know" about would make it impossible to prove the contrary. That is why we are only trying to prove it is more likely than not, and for that purpose, "he is Hokage" is more than enough to show he can beat a genin, and won't be outsmarted by someone who can't outsmart anyone besides one crappy genin in the first stage of Chuunin Exam battles.

[Aman]

Sorry but you're wrong. Katon: Karyuu Endan, Doton: Doryuu Heki are both B rank jutsus.Oh, you're right. Sorry about that, but they are both high level techniques.
Summoning is C rank, only shuriken KB is an A rank jutsu. Well they could be considered as a high level jutsus, but it depends on how you treat it.
I did say that he summoned a boss level summoning, I didn't call the technique itself high level.
Seems it's not so common opinion. However I could agree with you. Gaara (SRA) lack experience, but his power and abilities are comparable to an avarage jounin.With power on the level of an average jounin and a lack of experience, shouldn't that put him at low jounin level?
Kimmimaro was formerly chosen as Oro's body container, he couldn't be weak.He could be compared to the God of Shinobi.

[Spell]

Sorr,y I've never been the the Battledome before now, forgive my noobishness. This place is big and scary for those of us with no experience debating in a format like this. :iik I need a blankey.

Don't worry :leepose

But to be serious.
I'm not saying you're noob. Of course you're not. You're Akatsuki not for free I suppose. I'm just stating "he is a hokage" it's not a good argument when it comes to fights.

When I say he does have a jutsu that could beat a freaking Genin I am making that assumption based on him being Hokage
Sarutobi was defeated by Orochimaru. Fact.
Naruto is a genin. Fact.
Orochimaro had big problems fighting Naruto. Why, he should have no problems in defeating him. You see, we can't go by ranks.

Kage is better than everyone in a village
This is a generalization and can be easily invalidated =>Sasori defeated Sandaime Kazekage.



I did say that he summoned a boss level summoning, I didn't call the technique itself high level.
Well I would call it "an ability to perform C class jutsu in amazing high Kage level way" :P
With power on the level of an average jounin and a lack of experience, shouldn't that put him at low jounin level?
I don't know if Kimmimaro lack of experience, but as I said I could agree with you.

He could be compared to the God of Shinobi.
If you say so XD.

[Gooba]

Sarutobi was defeated by Orochimaru. Fact.
Naruto is a genin. Fact.
Orochimaro had big problems fighting Naruto. Why, he should have no problems in defeating him. You see, we can't go by ranks.I meant Genin-level nin. Naruto is an exception because he went away to train and thus hasn't had a chance to actually get promotions according to his ability. Kakashi stated that Naruto surpassed him, meaning the Naruto who beat Oro is Elite Jounin level, which is makes sense. This isn't the case with the pre-skip Genin.

This is a generalization and can be easily invalidated =>Sasori defeated Sandaime Kazekage. I'm not saying that the Kage will always defeat anyone in their village. People in the village can obviously get up close and even surpass them (like the 4th did). Factors like prep time, and the way the various styles match up can play an important part once someone gets high enough. Sasori was obviously one case of that.

If we were debating Tsunade vs Kakashi with MS, I'd agree we can't just say "Hokage wins" without any extra debate. However, I am not talking about the elite of the elite Jounin going against the Hokage, I am talking about some 12 year old kid who has a record of getting everyone he plans for killed (since they all would have been if other nins didn't come in).

We need to use all the evidence we have when analyzing these fights, and the fact that he was a Hokage is one giant piece of evidence pointing to him being amazing. The fact that he took down 2.5 Kage level nins at once (2 of whom where invincible to a degree even Hidan and Kakuzu aren't close to) is another big piece of evidence.

[martryn]

Shika's inteligence is over 200, I really doubt Sarutobi could compete with him.

Shika is smart, but so is Sarutobi. He might not be a Shikamaru level genius, but he's for sure a genius shinobi. I say with all confidence that he has Kakashi beat in the strategy department, and Kakashi compares himself with Shikamaru.

And while Shikamaru is probably smarter than Sarutobi, that alone does not make him strategically better. He lacks experience in battle, and Sarutobi is the ninja he is today (or was before he died) because he was forged in battle.

Sarutobi was defeated by Orochimaru. Fact.

Not true. That battle went no where near the way Oro wanted it to, despite all his preparation. There is a reason that he went and saw Tsunade. Sarutobi did die, but he did it taking part of Oro with him, and by his own free will, not some sort of jutsu Oro used. And you should also mention the two kage level nins that were fighting alongside Oro the entire fight.

The way I see it, Sarutobi fought three kage level nins, took two down with him, and paralyzed the arms of the third forcing him to retreat and saving Konoha.

[Spell]

@Gooba and martryn: I see your points and I can agree with most things you've stated. However IMO you still overrate Sarutobi.

I am talking about some 12 year old kid who has a record of getting everyone he plans for killed (since they all would have been if other nins didn't come in).
This 12 year old kid may be not a powerhouse alone, but when you put him in a team then this teams power increases considerably. He is able to outsmrt almost every shinobi, he is not a weakling.

Not true.
No it's true. Oro didn't kill Sarutobi by himself but forced him to use suicide jutsu. And he survived, which makes him a winner.

It's true that Oro's plan failed in 50%, but consider that Sarutobi was awared of danger, he knew that Orochimaru is planning somethin. He was prepared too, well maybe not as god as Oro, but was.

The way I see it, Sarutobi fought three kage level nins, took two down with him, and paralyzed the arms of the third forcing him to retreat and saving Konoha.
Yeah but if you count summons, it was 3 vs 2 fight. Enma is a factor same as both Hokages. Furthermore for most of the fight Orochimaru was standing and looking, he was taking a pleasure. If he fought that time, Sarutobi would be probably dead before performing Shiki Fuujin.

[Asuma: Konoha's Blade]

Very unfair fight.

First off, Ino's cancel eachother out. For Team sexy, with Kakashi (extremely powerful team leader), pre time skip Shikamaru (a plan and weak jutsu), Kimimaru (second strongest taijutsu user in the fight, can hold his own in long range), and Gaara (second strongest long range fighter).

Team Martyrn has a stronger Kimimaru, Asuma, who matches Kakashi. It has Sandaime, a powerhouse of jutsus who attacks Kakashi while Asuma takes him out. Something the sharingan can't match is Sarutobi teamwork. Meanwhile, Enma takes on Gaara, Chouji beats Shikamaru (who Shikamaru admitted to losing to) while Sakura holds back Kimimaru. This takes 5-10 seconds while Asuma comes in, wipes the floor with Kimimaru. Kimimaru goes CS2, giving Asuma a bit of trouble, while Sakura and Chouji help out. As the three of them finish him off, Sarutobi hits Gaara with some A rank jutsus and Enma breaks his spine from behind

[durtycheese]

i vote for the crazymoronx team, since they have kakashi gaaraand kimmi on the same team.

[Kuya]

This match is over 2pm Hawaii Time (3/1/07). Votes after will not be counted.

[CrazyMoronX]

Neither kage that Sarutobi took out in that fight (even then he had to use death god), had defense comparable to Kimimaro or Gaara.

Just sayin'.

[Gooba]

Neither kage that Sarutobi took out in that fight (even then he had to use death god), had defense comparable to Kimimaro or Gaara.True, it wasn't comparable. It was far far beyond theirs. Complete and utter indestuctability to anything besides having their soul sucked out. Better than a limited regen, or some shields which keeps getting pierced.

[Redux-shika boo]

-Kakashi has shown he could battle Sarutobi in a ninjutsu spewing contest relatively well. Also, with sharigan and his seemingly fast hand seal speed, Kakashi could give Sarutobi some problems. However, as soon as Enma is brought into this I think Kakashi is at a disntinct disadvantage, and that the additional defensive and offensive back-up Enma provides make Sandaime too much. In short, Kakashi cannot beat Sarutobi. Moreover, if Kakashi is too hope to do anything but singularly survive against that duo, then he defintly needs someone decent to help him fight Sarutobi... in the sense that the aid could help make Sarutobi tired faster, and lessen Sarutobi helping his other teamates.

As for Asuma Vs Kimimaro, since Kakashi has no one to help him against Sarutobi, this fight becomes somewhat moot. Why? Well, because Sarutobi is not going to be fully occupied by Kakashi, and subsequently can aid Asuma. Hence, the double team, in whatever capacity it my take, ensures Asuma can get in the direct hits he needs. And, Asuma already showed he could cut threw steel with his chakra blades, so kimi isn't a step too far beyond his abilties. Incidently, in a one on one fight, Asuma vs Kimi could go either way, but Last dance would give kimi an edge if he activated it.

Chouji's jumping and doing his meat tank could make shika move.
Sakura can smash up the ground. They can both use the area to hide... although shika can use it to extend his shadow. Hmm, but sakura is aware of his shadow bind... as is Chouji, which dictates they be careful. Yet, the location really is favorable to shika if he goes and hides. Seriously. Still, Shika is in for it and surely dead because Sakura is pretty damn tactical post timeskip, because it's two on one, and because his stamina in terms of his jutsu use wasn't good back then.

ino=cancel each other out....

So then, if the location was more favorable to Gaara I think your team would win, Crazymornx. And, this is because I believe Gaara would provide kaakshi the aid he needs, and could possibly even give Sarutobi the final blow. Hwoever, in reality, the location you got completly screws Gaara, so I don't think your team will last very long. I mean, how much sand could Gaara realistically utilize in NEw York? :laugh

[Kuya]

wsup my nigs, sorry i been kinda slackin the past 2 days. i had 2 exams and tonite we're throwin a party in my dorms, so i'll be back 2morrow with the votes and hopefully the final round (it's gonna be a 3-way match)

[Grrblt]

True, it wasn't comparable. It was far far beyond theirs. Complete and utter indestuctability to anything besides having their soul sucked out. Better than a limited regen, or some shields which keeps getting pierced.

Sarutobi can't suck the soul out of a person he can't touch (Gaara).

[martryn]

When counting the votes be sure to take one off of CMX's poll vote and add it to mine. I accidentally voted for him (as I said on the first page) and no one has changed it over yet.

[Kuya]

Team Martryn Wins.

[durtycheese]

ill say crazy moronx would win... easily, with sarutobi old ... asuma chouji and ino really mess the martryn team up...

[martryn]

Team Martryn Wins.

Yay, go me!