Orochimaru vs. Sabaku no Gaara

[Invisible Phantom]

current Oro (not sick one) vs Gaara right before the shukaku was extracted

Ready




Set




Go !

[King]

What? Are you serious? Orochimaru would kill Gaara.

[Invisible Phantom]

at least you replied lol

[hyuuga_neji14732]

Oro would win

[Katamari Damacy]

Orochimaru can definitely defeat Gaara if Naruto can.

[Grrblt]

Orochimaru can definitely defeat Gaara if Naruto can.

Naruto can't.

[uchiha sandsy]

I am a gaara fanboy so gaara ftw

[tab16]

Oro would pawn him seriously. Oro is my favourite character, so this opinion can be biased.

[Woofie]

Oro would seriously struggle against the size and level of attacks Gaara was using against Deidara, and the only thing he's shown which could possibly (though not certainly) penetrate the multiple layers of defence and reach Gaara in the sky was the extending Kusanagi... which would be rather hard to use while avoiding tidal waves of sand, sinking ground etc.

That fight was in the desert though. It's unclear how much smaller or slower Gaara's attacks would be in a neutral location. And I'm sure we haven't seen quite a bit of Orochimaru's arsenal (I dare say we've seen a decent amount of his best though; he's been in three fairly major battles already).

I suppose this is like the Sasori/Itachi thing. Itachi [Orochimaru] is likely stronger and would probably win, but based on what we've seen, Sasori [Gaara] takes it.

[TreeofSephri]

He summons Manda and tags teams Gaara. To be honest, I really have not seen many of Oro offensive jutsus.

[Midnight ♥]

I think Orochimaru would win, but Gaara would put up a hell of a fight.

[durtycheese]

would be a good fight but oro would win in the end, but im almost certain oro would have lots of problems. people who say other wise are just fanboy biased.

[Antifate]

Gaara still has Shukaku right? If Orochimaru summoned Manda, I guess Gaara would just go all sand-demon. Orochimaru is really hyped up to be insanely powerful, but based on what I've seen/read, Gaara can do a hell of a lot more destruction.

[Legendarywun]

The battle field is set in the middle of a desert where there is 30% of solid ground.

[Grrblt]

I'm not sure it matters, but can Gaara turn the solid ground into sand?

[Espionage]

Im seriously getting tired of all this Gaara hype. If Gaara can kill a legendary Sannin then he can kill Deidara and Sasuke as well.

[Grrblt]

Im seriously getting tired of all this Gaara hype. If Gaara can kill a legendary Sannin then he can kill Deidara and Sasuke as well.

He was about to kill Deidara and I don't see why he can't kill Sasuke.

[Kai]

Orochimaru kills Gaara. He hung with KN4, took down the 4th kazekage, and killed the 3rd hokage.

Gaara can't take the Sannin yet.

[Espionage]

He was about to kill Deidara and I don't see why he can't kill Sasuke.


But who won? :/ deidara let him take his arm off. He had no other options and they were in a freaking dessert. That fight seemed a little infair dont you think?

Also, I hate to tell you this but main characters tend to surpass side characters. IMHO Sasuke won the chuunin exams fight. Gaara dosent simply turn into shukaku in the beginning of a fight. I dont even see him having a good advantage on the fight. And it takes time to turn into his demon form anyways.

[Grrblt]

But who won? :/ deidara let him take his arm off. He had no other options and they were in a freaking dessert. That fight seemed a little infair dont you think?
Yeah, the fight was unfair. Gaara had to remove a threat to his village. Deidara couldn't win without this unfair advantage.

Also, I hate to tell you this but main characters tend to surpass side characters. IMHO Sasuke won the chuunin exams fight. Gaara dosent simply turn into shukaku in the beginning of a fight. I dont even see him having a good advantage on the fight. And it takes time to turn into his demon form anyways.

Sasuke did not win, didn't you read on? Gaara beat his ass without effort later on.

Main characters tend to surpass side characters, which implies that the side characters are stronger to begin with. I'm not convinced that Sasuke has surpassed Gaara yet, at least not by a considerable margin.

[Cava]

ok i am a fan of gaara but orochimaru just is a level above not only gaara but many others. i mean he is just unpredictable

[Cava]

Orochimaru kills Gaara. He hung with KN4, took down the 4th kazekage, and killed the 3rd hokage.

Gaara can't take the Sannin yet.

he MIGHT be able to handle tsunade cause i can't see how tsunade can protect herself from his massive attacks unless she summons her slug immediately.

[Kai]

Yeah, the fight was unfair. Gaara had to remove a threat to his village. Deidara couldn't win without this unfair advantage.
And you have to take into account that Deidara was unprepared with clay, was fighting on Gaara's home turf(which is a considerable advantage), and he had to capture Gaara alive.

That, to me rules out protecting his village.



Sasuke did not win, didn't you read on? Gaara beat his ass without effort later on.


Gaara probably would have been disqualified for transforming into Shukaku, if the battle got to hectic.
But hell, they let Naruto use kyuubi's chakra; I suppose it's a toss-up, however you want to look at it.

Edit: Sasuke's Chidori knocked Gaara out cold. Don't you remember when Temari and Kankurou had to babysit him for him to wake up? Going by the matches, Sasuke probably was the victor.

[Espionage]

Yeah, the fight was unfair. Gaara had to remove a threat to his village. Deidara couldn't win without this unfair advantage.



Sasuke did not win, didn't you read on? Gaara beat his ass without effort later on.

Main characters tend to surpass side characters, which implies that the side characters are stronger to begin with. I'm not convinced that Sasuke has surpassed Gaara yet, at least not by a considerable margin.

Ah, this is where I get to h ave some fun :nod

Yeah, the fight was unfair. Gaara had to remove a threat to his village. Deidara couldn't win without this unfair advantage.

Shinobi use whatever they can to a advantage. But if you look at the reality of it both were in a difficult situation but Gaara still had more of a advantage.


Sasuke had to knock Gaara around for Gaara himself to realise he wouldent win if he kept fighting like he did with Rock Lee. It takes time to turn into Shukaku. And he did pretty well for someone like Gaara. Are you dodging that Gaara was forced to flee because he would get killed pr captured by Sasuke?

[Grrblt]

And you have to take into account that Deidara was unprepared with clay, was fighting on Gaara's home turf(which is a considerable advantage), and he had to capture Gaara alive.

That, to me rules out protecting his village.
Deidara was more prepared than Gaara (he chose the fight, after all, and had some information on Gaara's fighting style while Gaara knew nothing). Gaara can create a new desert while Deidara cannot create a new village to bomb. Capturing Gaara alive only was an issue with the very last attack, everything else he threw at Gaara was not even close to harming him.

The bottom line is that threatening the village was the only way Deidara could harm Gaara. No village, no successful attack. Place them outside the desert then Deidara cannot win. Hence, Deidara had by far the larger advantage.

Gaara probably would have been disqualified for transforming into Shukaku, if the battle got to hectic.
But hell, they let Naruto use kyuubi's chakra; I suppose it's a toss-up, however you want to look at it.
Nobody said there was a rule againsy transforming. Sasuke did it briefly in the eliminations.

Ah, this is where I get to h ave some fun :nod

Shinobi use whatever they can to a advantage.
I don't disagree. You're the one that started bringing up unfair advantages.

But if you look at the reality of it both were in a difficult situation but Gaara still had more of a advantage.
No, see above.

Sasuke had to knock Gaara around for Gaara himself to realise he wouldent win if he kept fighting like he did with Rock Lee. It takes time to turn into Shukaku. And he did pretty well for someone like Gaara. Are you dodging that Gaara was forced to flee because he would get killed pr captured by Sasuke?
Are you forgetting that Gaara was under orders not to transform? That's the reason Sasuke was able to get as close as he did.

[Deathinstinct]

Yeah, the fight was unfair. Gaara had to remove a threat to his village. Deidara couldn't win without this unfair advantage.How so? That attack was used as a diversion for a diversion for an attack. He still ended up blowing up a bird against the sand shield, which he did just fine without threatening the village, then blowing up the tainted sand in the shield. The most threatening the village did is distract Gaara from noticing the tainted sand, which he likely wouldn't have noticed anyway.

Sasuke did not win, didn't you read on? Gaara beat his ass without effort later on.Only after Sasuke fought Temari, and Gaara had time to recover. Gaara still lost at the exam, fainting is a forfeit.

As far as the topic, Orochimaru would win assuming he's healthy, which I'm starting to think doesn't exist. If he isn't healthy, it depends a lot on how healthy he is.

[Grrblt]

How so? That attack was used as a diversion for a diversion for an attack. He still ended up blowing up a bird against the sand shield, which he did just fine without threatening the village, then blowing up the tainted sand in the shield. The most threatening the village did is distract Gaara from noticing the tainted sand, which he likely wouldn't have noticed anyway.
And why do you think Deidara used his last piece of clay to create that diversion? Because he needed to. If he hadn't, Gaara would have blocked that last bird much earlier and the explosive sand never would have been a problem.

Only after Sasuke fought Temari, and Gaara had time to recover. Gaara still lost at the exam, fainting is a forfeit.
Gaara would have transformed much earlier if he wasn't under orders not to. Like he did against Dosu.

Sasuke never fought Temari in the manga.

[Kai]

Deidara was more prepared than Gaara (he chose the fight, after all, and had some information on Gaara's fighting style while Gaara knew nothing). Gaara can create a new desert while Deidara cannot create a new village to bomb. Capturing Gaara alive only was an issue with the very last attack, everything else he threw at Gaara was not even close to harming him.

The bottom line is that threatening the village was the only way Deidara could harm Gaara. No village, no successful attack. Place them outside the desert then Deidara cannot win. Hence, Deidara had by far the larger advantage.

- Deidara needed to capture Gaara alive from the very beginning, or else they can't extract his bijuu.
- Gaara is always prepared, he couldn't be stronger than he already was vsing Deidara.
- Also, Gaara was already aware of Deidara's abilities soon after the battle began. Deidara knowing Gaara's abilities is just jack, that isn't a valid argument.
- Ever hear "deceptio is the way of the shinobi?" Deidara used it well against Gaara, and the truth of the matter is Gaara lost. He wouldn't be able to make as much sand avalanches if he was flying on top of a lake. Deidara was at more of a disadvantage than Gaara if you look at the general picture.


Nobody said there was a rule againsy transforming. Sasuke did it briefly in the eliminations.

Konoha was afraid Naruto's kyuubi would burst out of his body from the 1st chapter because he stole the scroll of sealing.

If they're that cautious of chances that are so miniscule, why would they risk the Shukaku coming out and destroying Konoha? Besides, that was the "ultimate weapon" the 4th kazekage(Orochimaru) was talking about and the secret in taking down Konoha.

[Espionage]

Deidara was more prepared than Gaara (he chose the fight, after all, and had some information on Gaara's fighting style while Gaara knew nothing). Gaara can create a new desert while Deidara cannot create a new village to bomb. Capturing Gaara alive only was an issue with the very last attack, everything else he threw at Gaara was not even close to harming him.

The bottom line is that threatening the village was the only way Deidara could harm Gaara. No village, no successful attack. Place them outside the desert then Deidara cannot win. Hence, Deidara had by far the larger advantage.

Are you forgetting that Gaara was under orders not to transform? That's the reason Sasuke was able to get as close as he did.


But who won? :/ You said you dont disagree so why are we still discussing this? Deidara won the match fairly or unfairly, however you want to look at it. No matter what Deidara won.

Gaara didnt give one shit about his transform orders. Hence, what happened to Dosu. He did that right in front of Konoha. Im sutprised no one except Kabuto and Banki saw him.

And this brings back the issue it takes TIME to transform. Gaara needed his defense to hide him So Sasuke couldent attack or see what he was planning. He actually kept a eye out of the defense so he could see Sasuke, and he still managed to defeat Gaara



Gaara would have transformed much earlier if he wasn't under orders not to. Like he did against Dosu.

Sasuke never fought Temari in the manga.

Read above.

[Reznor]

Sasuke did not win, didn't you read on? Gaara beat his ass without effort later on.

Main characters tend to surpass side characters, which implies that the side characters are stronger to begin with. I'm not convinced that Sasuke has surpassed Gaara yet, at least not by a considerable margin. Sasuke beat normal Gaara just fine.

The assumption is that normal Gaara is the one that advanced the most, not transformed Gaara. And then assumed that Sasuke advanced more.

I think Orochimaru wins this.

[Grrblt]

- Deidara needed to capture Gaara alive from the very beginning, or else they can't extract his bijuu.
- Gaara is always prepared, he couldn't be stronger than he already was vsing Deidara.
- Also, Gaara was already aware of Deidara's abilities soon after the battle began. Deidara knowing Gaara's abilities is just jack, that isn't a valid argument.
- Ever hear "deceptio is the way of the shinobi?" Deidara used it well against Gaara, and the truth of the matter is Gaara lost. He wouldn't be able to make as much sand avalanches if he was flying on top of a lake. Deidara was at more of a disadvantage than Gaara if you look at the general picture.
- And his attacks were still very far from even laying a scratch on Gaara.
- Sure he could be stronger; he could be well rested, he could have raised the desert before the fight was on, he could have attacked Deidara before showing himself, etc.
- Gaara had absolutely no idea that Deidara could turn his own sand into explosives. Had he known, Deidara again couldn't have won.
- I know Deidara won because he played well. In a neutral environment, Gaara wouldn't be able to use the same super sized attacks but Deidara would not be able to sneak birds behind his back. Gaara would still be able to attack, Deidara would not be able to win. Gaara was at a larger disadvantage simply because Deidara's advantage was a binary "Can I win?" value.

Konoha was afraid Naruto's kyuubi would burst out of his body from the 1st chapter because he stole the scroll of sealing.

If they're that cautious of chances that are so miniscule, why would they risk the Shukaku coming out and destroying Konoha? Besides, that was the "ultimate weapon" the 4th kazekage(Orochimaru) was talking about and the secret in taking down Konoha.
Gaara won with just a mini sized Shukaku.
Nobody interfered when they saw the Shukaku arm coming out of the cocoon.

[Espionage]

Gaara won with just a mini sized Shukaku.
Nobody interfered when they saw the Shukaku arm coming out of the cocoon.

No...when did he beat Sasuke? The only time Sasuke had to stop fighting was when the curse seal became a problem.

And Gaara still fainted. Theres no other way around that. The fight was clearly fair. If this fight began in Shukaku mode and not allow Sasuke curse seal, yeah he might have a chance.

You keep dodging the fact that he needs time to transform. Sasuke easily made it threw his defense and defeated Gaara.

[Grrblt]

No...when did he beat Sasuke? The only time Sasuke had to stop fighting was when the curse seal became a problem.

And Gaara still fainted. Theres no other way around that. The fight was clearly fair. If this fight began in Shukaku mode and not allow Sasuke curse seal, yeah he might have a chance.

You keep dodging the fact that he needs time to transform. Sasuke easily made it threw his defense and defeated Gaara.

Gaara needed no time to transform against Dosu. Nor against Sasuke the second time.

Sasuke was defeated here http://devilbox.dead.org/n/121-130/128/Naruto%20-%20128%20-%2017.jpg

[Kung Lao]

I'd go with Gaara, if it's in the desert. I don't want to argue much, but I specificly liked that Legendary Ninja > Gaara. If ranks is what you base on, then check Gaara's current.

Orochimaru might be able to throw him a challenge, when he is in his original body and stuff. Really, current Orochimaru is at his limit by only lying in the bed.

[Espionage]

Gaara needed no time to transform against Dosu. Nor against Sasuke the second time.

Sasuke was defeated here http://devilbox.dead.org/n/121-130/128/Naruto%20-%20128%20-%2017.jpg

You watch the anime then :/ In the anime Gaara transformed while Dosu was in shock :/

Try to explain me this. Why didnt Gaara just transform like he did with Dosu? Because he needs time.

And that link shows a irritated Sasule who couldent move because of is curse seal...::/ try again

[Grrblt]

You watch the anime then :/ In the anime Gaara transformed while Dosu was in shock :/

Try to explain me this. Why didnt Gaara just transform like he did with Dosu? Because he needs time.
Try to explain this. Why did Gaara wrap himself in a shell, make a load of nonsense handseals, when twice he has shown he can transform incredibly fast?
EDIT: oh I forgot to give the actual answer. Story-telling suspension to allow for all the "oh no, Temari! It's that jutsu! We need to do something!" comments.

Why exactly do you think Dosu was in shock? Because Gaara gave him an evil stare? No, because Gaara had transformed. See for yourself http://devilbox.dead.org/n/091-100/091/naruto-11-1-18.jpg

And that link shows a irritated Sasule who couldent move because of is curse seal...::/ try again

A curse seal which he used by his own free will, because without it he couldn't even use a third Chidori. If Gaara forces Sasuke to do something which makes him unable to continue fighting, and Gaara is still able to fight, then Gaara has won.

[Espionage]

Try to explain this. Why did Gaara wrap himself in a shell, make a load of nonsense handseals, when twice he has shown he can transform incredibly fast?

Why exactly do you think Dosu was in shock? Because Gaara gave him an evil stare? No, because Gaara had transformed. See for yourself http://devilbox.dead.org/n/091-100/091/naruto-11-1-18.jpg



A curse seal which he used by his own free will, because without it he couldn't even use a third Chidori. If Gaara forces Sasuke to do something which makes him unable to continue fighting, and Gaara is still able to fight, then Gaara has won.


you didnt answer my question. Why did it take so long for Gaara to make Shukaku? Your bringing past references to future references. If Sasuke can make it past Gaara's defense he knows Sasuke is to fast. He knew Sasuke could win if he didnt put up his defense. Did I say how easy it was for sasuke to get threw it?

That link shows nothing more then Sasuke getting irritated about curse seal. f you are only going to count that then its only fair you count Sasuke won before the war had begun. And I havent even gotten on Sasuke in cs2 mode :S

[Kai]

- And his attacks were still very far from even laying a scratch on Gaara.
- Sure he could be stronger; he could be well rested, he could have raised the desert before the fight was on, he could have attacked Deidara before showing himself, etc.
- Gaara had absolutely no idea that Deidara could turn his own sand into explosives. Had he known, Deidara again couldn't have won.
- I know Deidara won because he played well. In a neutral environment, Gaara wouldn't be able to use the same super sized attacks but Deidara would not be able to sneak birds behind his back. Gaara would still be able to attack, Deidara would not be able to win. Gaara was at a larger disadvantage simply because Deidara's advantage was a binary "Can I win?" value.
That's a poor argument. Raised the desert before the fight was on? Deidara probably knew that the weakness of every kage was the village they were trying to protect.
He could have attempted to light the village and cause an interior explosion in Gaara's sand "when the fight began".

Your arguments can go both ways, and don't only work for Gaara. When you add everything together, Deidara was at more of a disadvantage than Gaara. Deidara had barely more prep, and once the battle began it was who had better analytic skills that would determine the victor.

You also can't expect every shinobi encounter to have knowledge of the other. If Shikamaru knew about Hidan's weakness from the start, Asuma wouldn't have died.
If Konoha knew kyuubi was going to attack the outskirts, they would have devised a plan to stop it.

Going into little details is just stupid, because we both know it doesn't really change the situation had it been otherwise.

Deidara knew he was about to lose, he exploited Gaara's weakness, and captured him.


Gaara won with just a mini sized Shukaku.
Nobody interfered when they saw the Shukaku arm coming out of the cocoon.
And if Gaara went to sleep? They're just going to let the shukaku run free?

I've got to go to classes now, talk to you later.

[durtycheese]

as much as i love gaara, i think oro would win... but it would be one hell of a fight tho.

[Grrblt]

you didnt answer my question. Why did it take so long for Gaara to make Shukaku? Your bringing past references to future references. If Sasuke can make it past Gaara's defense he knows Sasuke is to fast. He knew Sasuke could win if he didnt put up his defense. Did I say how easy it was for sasuke to get threw it?
I did answer it in an edit.

I'm not sure what you're saying with the Sasuke is too fast stuff. Is Sasuke faster than Dosu's sound?

That link shows nothing more then Sasuke getting irritated about curse seal. f you are only going to count that then its only fair you count Sasuke won before the war had begun. And I havent even gotten on Sasuke in cs2 mode :S
The next page has Naruto butt in and kick Gaara. Sasuke was unable to fight and Gaara would have murdered him there.

That's a poor argument. Raised the desert before the fight was on? Deidara probably knew that the weakness of every kage was the village they were trying to protect.
He could have attempted to light the village and cause an interior explosion in Gaara's sand "when the fight began".
Gaara carries that sand with him, there's no way Deidara could have set it up before the fight.

Your arguments can go both ways, and don't only work for Gaara. When you add everything together, Deidara was at more of a disadvantage than Gaara. Deidara had barely more prep, and once the battle began it was who had better analytic skills that would determine the victor.
Analytic skills don't matter if you don't possess the means to put them to use. Deidara did possess those: he was able to divert Gaara's attention, and he was able to tamper with Gaara's sand. If Gaara had known about Deidara's ability, or if the village hadn't been there, there is no way Deidara could have won.

You also can't expect every shinobi encounter to have knowledge of the other. If Shikamaru knew about Hidan's weakness from the start, Asuma wouldn't have died.
I'm not expecting people to have any knowledge. But Deidara did. That is why he had an advantage. Just like Shika had a severe advantage over Hidan the second time.

If Konoha knew kyuubi was going to attack the outskirts, they would have devised a plan to stop it.

Going into little details is just stupid, because we both know it doesn't really change the situation had it been otherwise.

Deidara knew he was about to lose, he exploited Gaara's weakness, and captured him.
Bolded for truth.
He exploited Gaara's weakness. In a neutral environment, Gaara doesn't have that weakness and Deidara wouldn't just be about to lose.

And if Gaara went to sleep? They're just going to let the shukaku run free?

I've got to go to classes now, talk to you later.
They would put him down as soon as he became a threat to anyone that was not Sasuke. But he can transform without attacking anyone around.

[Espionage]

I did answer it in an edit.

I'm not sure what you're saying with the Sasuke is too fast stuff. Is Sasuke faster than Dosu's sound?


The next page has Naruto butt in and kick Gaara. Sasuke was unable to fight and Gaara would have murdered him there.

he can transform without attacking anyone around.

Then say your answer again, because I must have missed it.

If Gaara could take down Sasuke he would had done it. Sasuke easily broke threw Gaara's defense and had him forced to run away. Sasuke won the fight. For Gaara to transform into a perfect Shukaku he needs time.

It dosent matter if Gaara would murder Sasuke or not. You keep on bringing that same "Gaara could had beat Sasuke in the forest" as if it is the only evidance you have Gaara is stronger then Sasuke. Sasuke was irritated by his curse seal because of his own problems; I know that, but were not bringing that weak arguement up since Sasuke seems to be able to turn into CS or CS2 with less problems. :wink

Saying Gaara beats Sasuke because his demon form is bigger is weak to. Orochimaru said Itachi IS stronger then himw when Itachi dosent seem to have a summon. That is the crunch of your arguement.:oh

[Grrblt]

Then say your answer again, because I must have missed it.
Try to explain this. Why did Gaara wrap himself in a shell, make a load of nonsense handseals, when twice he has shown he can transform incredibly fast?
EDIT: oh I forgot to give the actual answer. Story-telling suspension to allow for all the "oh no, Temari! It's that jutsu! We need to do something!" comments.

If Gaara could take down Sasuke he would had done it. Sasuke easily broke threw Gaara's defense and had him forced to run away. Sasuke won the fight. For Gaara to transform into a perfect Shukaku he needs time.
If Gaara had really wanted to kill Sasuke from the get go, he would have turned Shukaku immediately. He didn't, because he had orders not to. He eventually stopped caring about those orders, sure, but not before taking a beating.

He doesn't need to transform into perfect Shukaku. He just needed an arm and a tail to beat Sasuke in the forest, and he created that arm and tail almost instantly.

It dosent matter if Gaara would murder Sasuke or not. You keep on bringing that same "Gaara could had beat Sasuke in the forest" as if it is the only evidance you have Gaara is stronger then Sasuke. Sasuke was irritated by his curse seal because of his own problems; I know that, but were not bringing that weak arguement up since Sasuke seems to be able to turn into CS or CS2 with less problems. :wink
I bring the same thing in again because you don't seem to understand it. It is not just Sasuke saying "oh, that darn CS :(", it is Sasuke being forced to use CS and then being unable to fight. Gaara had him beat. Please understand.

Saying Gaara beats Sasuke because his demon form is bigger is weak to. Orochimaru said Itachi IS stronger then himw when Itachi dosent seem to have a summon. That is the crunch of your arguement.:oh
I never said that. I say Gaara beats Sasuke because Gaara is stronger.

[Espionage]

Try to explain this. Why did Gaara wrap himself in a shell, make a load of nonsense handseals, when twice he has shown he can transform incredibly fast?
EDIT: oh I forgot to give the actual answer. Story-telling suspension to allow for all the "oh no, Temari! It's that jutsu! We need to do something!" comments.


If Gaara had really wanted to kill Sasuke from the get go, he would have turned Shukaku immediately. He didn't, because he had orders not to. He eventually stopped caring about those orders, sure, but not before taking a beating.

He doesn't need to transform into perfect Shukaku. He just needed an arm and a tail to beat Sasuke in the forest, and he created that arm and tail almost instantly.


I bring the same thing in again because you don't seem to understand it. It is not just Sasuke saying "oh, that darn CS :(", it is Sasuke being forced to use CS and then being unable to fight. Gaara had him beat. Please understand.


I never said that. I say Gaara beats Sasuke because Gaara is stronger.

:knk Finally, a decent arguement!

Im to lazy to multi quote you so Im gonna go by paragraph 1. 2. 3.:nod


1. That dosent answer my question. I know you probably made a point, but I dont understand the joke :amuse

2. Gaara could kill Sasuke no matter there mission. He just wasnt suppose to go out of control. And I have it hard to belive Gaara can defeat Sasuke with just his arm and a tale. Still, I havent even brought up cs and im defending Sasuke in normal mode :S

3. And you just seem to not understand Sasuke can ativate CS2 and cs without any problems. So yes, Gaara is going to be saying "Aww, im screwed now:()

[Legendarywun]

wow, this is a heated discussion, but its a bit unfair that grrblt has to face twon opponents and two different views. I guess i'll join after the next post, cause i sorta support what Grrblt is saying.

[Espionage]

^ You know how many Neji fans jumped me in a Sasuke vs Neji thread one time? ALOT :S

[Legendarywun]

^ You know how many Neji fans jumped me in a Sasuke vs Neji thread one time? ALOT :S

lol, :rotfl i know exactly what your talking about. I was jumped by a shit load of Itachi fans one time , cause i said he was overated. It was hell. :laugh :evil

[Espionage]

lol, :rotfl i know exactly what your talking about. I was jumped by a shit load of Itachi fans one time , cause i said he was overated. It was hell. :laugh :evil


The thing is IMHO both yondy and Itachi is overrated. People think Just because yondaime sealed Kyuubi makes him a god and people think the good ol MS for Itachi is unbeatable. Fans are just to stubborn to admit there wrong :/

[Roy]

fighting in the desert is a big advantage for Gaara..does he still have Shukaku? Gaara has alot of ways to kill oro if they're fighting in the desert so Gaara ftw

[Legendarywun]

The thing is IMHO both yondy and Itachi is overrated. People think Just because yondaime sealed Kyuubi makes him a god and people think the good ol MS for Itachi is unbeatable. Fans are just to stubborn to admit there wrong :/

Exactly. Its like Yondaime does not even have to blink in order to defeat someone because they are already dead due to his presence and power. While the MS is a devine right that enables the person to kill everyone there is. I remember when Kaka first used it.....i had a huge ass head ache :D:

fighting in the desert is a big advantage for Gaara..does he still have Shukaku? Gaara has alot of ways to kill oro if they're fighting in the desert so Gaara ftw

Hmmm, Shukaku would just own Oro in the desert. So i don't think so.

[Espionage]

@ RoyThat dosent make any since. Orochimaru has manda which can destroy Shukaku. Just because something is bigger then something dosent mean it > it.

If Gaara can beat Orochimaru then clearly the 2.5 years with oro meant nothing :/

[Legendarywun]

^ That dosent make any since. Orochimaru has manda which can destroy Shukaku.

If Gaara can beat Orochimaru then clearly the 2.5 years with oro meant nothing :/

I doubt Manda is powerful enough to take on a tailed demon. Plus it's Shukaku's surrounding, he could just burry Manda in the sand and crush him with the pressure, not to mention chakra blasting the crap outta him. That is if Gaara falls asleep.

Also i dont know what you mean by "If Gaara can beat Orochimaru then clearly the 2.5 years with oro meant nothing :/"

[Espionage]

I doubt Manda is powerful enough to take on a tailed demon. Plus it's Shukaku's surrounding, he could just burry Manda in the sand and crush him with the pressure, not to mention chakra blasting the crap outta him. That is if Gaara falls asleep.

Also i dont know what you mean by "If Gaara can beat Orochimaru then clearly the 2.5 years with oro meant nothing :/"

I meant @ Roy but I have no choice no do I :p

Also remember Manda did a great job holding his own against 2 boss. Remember, to stop Shukaku you need something sharp or something with claws I remember. Manda bites Shukaku, Orochimaru spits out some clones so they can punch Gaara awake...or lick him. Whichever rocks his boat the best :nod

[Roy]

@ RoyThat dosent make any since. Orochimaru has manda which can destroy Shukaku. Just because something is bigger then something dosent mean it > it.
I don't know if it's true or not but I heard somewhere that a bijuu(sp?) is stronger than a boss summon



Hmmm, Shukaku would just own Oro in the desert. So i don't think so.
but if oro has manda then it would only be fair if he had Shukaku
I meant @ Roy but I have no choice no do I :p

Also remember Manda did a great job holding his own against 2 boss. Remember, to stop Shukaku you need something sharp or something with claws I remember. Manda bites Shukaku, Orochimaru spits out some clones so they can punch Gaara awake...or lick him. Whichever rocks his boat the best :nod

but manda doesn't even listen to oro..and manda always asks for a sacrifice and I don't think oro can come up with 100 people that fast /=

[Espionage]

I don't know if it's true or not but I heard somewhere that a bijuu(sp?) is stronger than a boss summon


Then how did Shukaku lose to Gamabunta? :/


but manda doesn't even listen to oro..and manda always asks for a sacrifice and I don't think oro can come up with 100 people that fast /=

When has Shukaku ever listened to Gaara?:oh And Shukaku dosent seem bright. And Orochimaru didnt even come up with sacrifises last time :/ He summoned him and Manda told him to prepare 100 sacrifises for summoning him to a sannin fight.

[Roy]

Then how did Shukaku lose to Gamabunta? :/
because he told Naruto to turn him into something with claws and fangs.. if naruto wasnt there gama would have lost

and plus now Shukaku has field advantage


When has Shukaku ever listened to Gaara?:oh And Shukaku dosent seem bright. And Orochimaru didnt even come up with sacrifises last time :/ He summoned him and Manda told him to prepare 100 sacrifises for summoning him to a sannin fight.

Gaara never talked to Shukaku since he was asleep...even if oro does get manda to fight Shukaku he wont listen to oro so it'll basically be Shukaku vs Manda..

[Sasori]

lol Shukaku never lost to Gamabunta.

Even Gamabunta was stating that he was struggling.

[Roy]

and plus Shukaku wasn't fully released thats why gama told naruto to wake gaara up..

[Espionage]

because he told Naruto to turn him into something with claws and fangs.. if naruto wasnt there gama would have lost



And Manda dosent have fangs?:oh



and plus now Shukaku has field advantage


And who won the between Deidara vs Gaara?
Plus, we have to remember they wont simply bring out the bug guns first. Orochimaru can summon twin snakes and still summon Manda :/ Gaara is limited to his chakra and he dosent seem to have as much to Orochimaru :/


Gaara never talked to Shukaku since he was asleep...even if oro does get manda to fight Shukaku he wont listen to oro so it'll basically be Shukaku vs Manda..

Again, Shukaku dosent seem bright. Manda isnt anything like him. Even if Manda dosent listen to Orochimaru simply dosent mean he would not take advice from him. Its quit simple. Manda gets close to the dumb Shukaku and bites him while Orochimaru spit clones hop on Shukaku and strangle Gaara.

[Haku]

garra becuse i think hes better than oro!

[Kai]

Then how did Shukaku lose to Gamabunta? :/

Don't argue about this. Bijuu > Boss summons in all instances. They're the strongest beings in the Narutoverse.

[Espionage]

Don't argue about this. Bijuu > Boss summons in all instances. They're the strongest beings in the Narutoverse.


THEN how did Gamabunta win :/

[Roy]

And Manda dosent have fangs?:oh
no because he went to the dentist the day before and had to get them removed xDD


yeah but what can Shukaku do while fighting in the desert.. theres alot of thing that come in mind like he can go underground etc. I'm not saying Shukaku can do that but it's a possibility
And who won the between Deidara vs Gaara?
Plus, we have to remember they wont simply bring out the bug guns first. Orochimaru can summon twin snakes and still summon Manda :/ Gaara is limited to his chakra and he dosent seem to have as much to Orochimaru :/
yeah but he had to protect the village if he wanted to he could have let them die and won the fight..

plus gaara has automatic defense and I don't think oro's snakes are fast enough to pass through it



Again, Shukaku dosent seem bright. Manda isnt anything like him. Even if Manda dosent listen to Orochimaru simply dosent mean he would not take advice from him. Its quit simple. Manda gets close to the dumb Shukaku and bites him while Orochimaru spit clones hop on Shukaku and strangle Gaara.

*points to spaces post*

theres no need to talk about this anymore


THEN how did Gamabunta win :/
he never won.. and if naruto wasn't there do you still think he could have won?

[Kai]

THEN how did Gamabunta win :/

It wasn't a fully released Shukaku and Gamabunta was getting fried as time passed which is the exact reason he had told Naruto to wake Gaara before more damage could be dealt to them.

Gamabunta would get killed in 1 attack by a full Shukaku.

[Espionage]

no because he went to the dentist the day before and had to get them removed xDD


yeah but what can Shukaku do while fighting in the desert.. theres alot of thing that come in mind like he can go underground etc. I'm not saying Shukaku can do that but it's a possibility

yeah but he had to protect the village if he wanted to he could have let them die and won the fight..

plus gaara has automatic defense and I don't think oro's snakes are fast enough to pass through it


he never won.. and if naruto wasn't there do you still think he could have won?

To answer your question, from what we have seen Shukaku can do, and what we have seen what Manda and the twin snakes can do its safe to say Manda twin snakes>Shukaku.

And I dont get your last sentence in your post. He never won but he won?:huh I dont get it.

[Kaiji]

I'm not sure it matters, but can Gaara turn the solid ground into sand?

yes, remeber that ep with every one on that mission except 10 10 so yeah he can do that and i think gaara win 70% sure

[Espionage]

Its funny the people who vote for Gaara cant even come up with a good reason why he can win

[daowz]

orochimaru has more expereince and probably more jutsus , he could have been a hokage if wasn't a bad guy

ps i was the 15th vote and after i vote i was the 8 th one that said orochimaru won by 8-7 so b4 it was 7-7 i just feel like it's cool so i'm saying it

[Roy]

To answer your question, from what we have seen Shukaku can do, and what we have seen what Manda and the twin snakes can do its safe to say Manda twin snakes>Shukaku.

And I dont get your last sentence in your post. He never won but he won?:huh I dont get it.

we already saw what manda can do..when you saw Shukaku fight he wasnt even fully released


the only reason gama "won" is because of naruto.. if naruto wasn't involved in the fight Gama wouldn't have won.. even though gama never won that fight

[Legendarywun]

we already saw what manda can do..when you saw Shukaku fight he wasnt even fully released


the only reason gama "won" is because of naruto.. if naruto wasn't involved in the fight Gama wouldn't have won.. even though gama never won that fight

Yeah, Gama even stated that if Shukaku fully awoke, then not even he himself would be able to stop him. Plus Gama really didnt win in a way.

[Espionage]

we already saw what manda can do..when you saw Shukaku fight he wasnt even fully released


the only reason gama "won" is because of naruto.. if naruto wasn't involved in the fight Gama wouldn't have won.. even though gama never won that fight

I seriously cant belive you guys would compare a kazekagu to a sannin/Hokage :/

Again, to activate Shukaku he needs time. The impact of the twin snakes hitting his sand would be to mutch.

The only reason shukaku is allowed to fight is because of Gaara. Orochimaru can take on Shukaku like he was nothing. Orochimaru is no doubt a better summoner then Naruto, so why even bring that up?

[Legendarywun]

I seriously cant belive you guys would compare a kazekagu to a sannin/Hokage :/

Again, to activate Shukaku he needs time. The impact of the twin snakes hitting his sand would be to mutch.

The only reason shukaku is allowed to fight is because of Gaara. Orochimaru can take on Shukaku like he was nothing. Orochimaru is no doubt a better summoner then Naruto, so why even bring that up?

but we are talking about Kazekage Gaara, not the same old chuning exam gaara. I doubt if Chunin exam naruto was to go up against Kazekage gaara with his Gamabunta, naruto would lose. I do agree that it takes time for Gaara to turn into shukaku, but he can obtain the arms and legs rather quickly, giving him even more power. Kazekage Gaara is also not that easy to defeat. While Gaara is turning shukaku and Oro summons Manda. All Gaara has to do is sink Manda into the desert sand and by some time.

[pancake]

Well on the manga... We saw that...

Gaara lost his shukaku

Maybe he won't be as strong as much as he was before, and besides Orochimaru took down the 4th Kazekage and the 3rd Hokage, so Orochimaru will be able to kill Gaara in no time.

[Espionage]

but we are talking about Kazekage Gaara, not the same old chuning exam gaara. I doubt if Chunin exam naruto was to go up against Kazekage gaara with his Gamabunta, naruto would lose. I do agree that it takes time for Gaara to turn into shukaku, but he can obtain the arms and legs rather quickly, giving him even more power. Kazekage Gaara is also not that easy to defeat. While Gaara is turning shukaku and Oro summons Manda. All Gaara has to do is sink Manda into the desert sand and by some time.

I know that. People are saying Gaara with the arms and legs can take on Orochimaru. Thats what I dont understand.

And burying Manda under sand, would that really work? He has shown he can move through ground and can dig himself out rather fast.

Also, Gaara dosent concentrate on sand while he is transforming sice it causes him pain. While Gaara is transforming and yelling all Orochimaru has to do is sneak behind with Manda and eat him.

[Roy]

but your forget that they're fighting in the desert since you say it take a while to fully release Shukaku.. Gaara can just make a huge fortress shielding himself and inside he can just release Shukaku there.. and remember it wont be just normal sand he was able to harden the sand like he did in the fight with kimi

[Espionage]

but your forget that they're fighting in the desert since you say it take a while to fully release Shukaku.. Gaara can just make a huge fortress shielding himself and inside he can just release Shukaku there.. and remember it wont be just normal sand he was able to harden the sand like he did in the fight with kimi


Dry dirt from below ground>sand. Thats a fact. Dessert sand is strong but the weak sand is usually on top. Gaara would need ALOT of chakra to lift it up.

[Roy]

yeah so basically if he did put a shield around his body it would be enough to protect him from Manda and after that he wont even be fighting since he released Shukaku and bijuu>boss summon

[Espionage]

But it would be weak sand. Manda would crush him if he tried making a shield like that.

Biju>summon yeah, but I dont see why Orochimaru wont turn Manda into a tiger. Orochimaru isnt dumb y'know :/

[Roy]

Manda cant hurt Gaara without getting past the automatic shield..


true but do you really think Manda would want to be helped by Oro? Manda looks like a prideful summon/beast and I don't think he would want any help fighting

[Espionage]

I still want to know where has it ever been said manda dosent listen to Orochimaru. He gives him a hard time and thats pretty much it. Gamabunta does the same to Naruto. Just because he seems harsh dosent mean Manda wouldnt listen

And Manda cant get past Gaara's shield? Kimimaro tried to hit Rock lee one time and Gaara's shield tried to block it but it still swaped him. I think Manda is stronger then that I belive.

[Kai]

You don't need Manda to get past Gaara's shield. Kusanagi will pierce right through it, and we've already seen how long Oro can extend that piece of art.

[Legendarywun]

You don't need Manda to get past Gaara's shield. Kusanagi will pierce right through it, and we've already seen how long Oro can extend that piece of art.

ooo, i totally forgot about that. The Kusanagi is probably like the Chidori, it may as well be able to cut through Gaara's sand shield.

[Grrblt]

You don't need Manda to get past Gaara's shield. Kusanagi will pierce right through it, and we've already seen how long Oro can extend that piece of art.

When Oro extended his Kusanagi, it failed to pierce Naruto's shield. I'm betting Gaara's will resist it too.

[Espionage]

When Oro extended his Kusanagi, it failed to pierce Naruto's shield. I'm betting Gaara's will resist it too.

ok, then Manda crushes his shield :p

[Mibu Clan]

When Oro extended his Kusanagi, it failed to pierce Naruto's shield. I'm betting Gaara's will resist it too.
I doubt it really... If the Chidori of Sasuke pre skip pierced it then the Legendary Kusanagi will definetly pierce it... Also remember that Japansese Folklor the only living being to ever crack the Kusanagi is Kyuubi.

Anyways ImO Orochimaru wins... The sand Gaara always carrys and any other sand are very different in both powert and speed. ImO Gaara will need to use his true Sand and therefore leaving open holes in his Shield... any Shinobi could take advantage of that and Oro would be no exception.

ImO Orochimaru takes it, without much problems.

Should Gaara go Shukkaku Orochimaru posseses the Jutsu to both block the Fuuton's as well as attack the Shukkaku with Manda.

[zaiigoukyou]

But who won? :/ deidara let him take his arm off. He had no other options and they were in a freaking dessert. That fight seemed a little infair dont you think?

Also, I hate to tell you this but main characters tend to surpass side characters. IMHO Sasuke won the chuunin exams fight. Gaara dosent simply turn into shukaku in the beginning of a fight. I dont even see him having a good advantage on the fight. And it takes time to turn into his demon form anyways.

Gaara was unstable during that match. Gaara fights much better when he has his senses in order. For all we know Sasuke could have done chidori and hit a sand clone instead of Gaara inside a shell. That fight did not count if it did Gaara was handicapped.

[Espionage]

Gaara was unstable during that match. Gaara fights much better when he has his senses in order. For all we know Sasuke could have done chidori and hit a sand clone instead of Gaara inside a shell. That fight did not count if it did Gaara was handicapped.

No, he was unstabled untill the end of the match.

[Legendarywun]

ok, then Manda crushes his shield :p

Manda could swallow the shield with Gaara in it, but i doubt he could break it.

[Uchiha Maikeru]

At this point in the manga? I'd say Gaara. Even though he doesn't have that beast in him anymore, he's still dangerous. Orochimaru is in a very weakened state, and he needs Sasuke as his host. Orochimaru, weakened as he is, should be easy pickings for Gaara.

[Kai]

When Oro extended his Kusanagi, it failed to pierce Naruto's shield. I'm betting Gaara's will resist it too.

You know, I'm startin to get a generalization of where you stand with Gaara...

[Gaara from the Desert]

I bet Gaara would own Orochimaru... there is nothing Oro can do against Gaara's sand...

[Kuya]

In the desert with no village? It's like fighting Namor or Aquaman underwater.

Kazekage Gaara wins.

[Grrblt]

ok, then Manda crushes his shield :p

Manda can't fly.

[Kuya]

Manda can't fly.

Also, Manda might get pissed that he's in all this sand, there's a good chance he'd disobey Oro and try and eat him.

[Byakuya]

I think Gaara can win this, unless they merge and become Gaarachimaru!

[Gamabunta]

orochimaru. gaara hasnt got enough experiance to beat him yet.

[Grrblt]

orochimaru. gaara hasnt got enough experiance to beat him yet.
Experience didn't save Kakuzu from Naruto.

[Gamabunta]

Yes, but i doubt the fact that he had been 1/2 killed already helped either.

[Grrblt]

Yes, but i doubt the fact that he had been 1/2 killed already helped either.

Kakuzu's superior experience didn't help him against Kakashi's Raikiri or Hidan's folly either.

[Gamabunta]

Kakashi is an experianced warrior, and Hidans folly = Shikamaru's genius. Im not suprised his experiance didnt help.

[Id]

I believe Gaara has a chance. But I favor a healthy Orochimaru 6.5/10.

[Grrblt]

Kakashi is an experianced warrior, and Hidans folly = Shikamaru's genius. Im not suprised his experiance didnt help.

Kakashi's experience is nothing compared to Kakuzu's. As does Shika's. That they could damage Kakuzu only shows that it's very possible to overcome experience.

[Gamabunta]

Kakashi's experience is nothing compared to Kakuzu's. As does Shika's. That they could damage Kakuzu only shows that it's very possible to overcome experience.

I agree it is possible, but you must remember that it took 3 very high Jounin level ninjas to kill Kakuzu, who you have said has had more experiance. Therefore, experiance is a key ingrediant to winning a battle.

I would say Orochi > experiance than Kazekage Gaara.

Also people have been bringing up deidara vs kazekage gaara, deidara had plenty of prep time. If orochi is given prep time the gaara will definatly not win. Which case it would be Edo-tensei ftw.

Dont get me wrong, by no means would it be an easy fight. But orochi's range of techniques, natural power and combat experiance would win him the battle :D.

[Bresakar]

oro > KN4 > Gaara. I think if Oro could survive a fight against KN4, he will survive gaara. Oro has also long-range type jutsu like Gaara

[Kai]

I find it funny how people say that Jiraiya will be able to beat Kazekage Gaara and Post Sasuke together in my thread, while people say Gaara by himself can defeat Orochimaru in this one.

Gaara is just below that power tier.

[Legendarywun]

I find it funny how people say that Jiraiya will be able to beat Kazekage Gaara and Post Sasuke together in my thread, while people say Gaara by himself can defeat Orochimaru in this one.

Gaara is just below that power tier.

Weren't we talking about Gaara with out Shukaku....This thread is mainly focused on Oro's ability to put away with Shukaku. Plus with your thread , the reason Jiraiya would win is mostly due to the "Itachi & Kisame >or= Jiraiya, while Itachi > Oro" thing, but please i dont want to get into that at the moment

[Gamabunta]

Plus with your thread , the reason Jiraiya would win is mostly due to the "Itachi & Kisame >or= Jiraiya, while Itachi > Oro" thing, but please i dont want to get into that at the moment

That is a can of worms that should stay shut till i kidnap kishi an force the truth out of him. Its like a for loop with no end.

[Legendarywun]

That is a can of worms that should stay shut till i kidnap kishi an force the truth out of him. Its like a for loop with no end.

You better give me a call when you do :wink

[niyesuH]

Gaara loosed to pre 4 tails Naruto while Orochimaru had no trouble fighting Naruto in that state so clearly Orochimaru

[twin_rasengan]

gaara could kill orochimaru if he had more sleep!!!! lol

[zaiigoukyou]

No he was unstable ever since the 2nd part of the Chunin Exams when he fought rock Lee he was at his breaking point in the 3rd part of the Chunin Exams

[MISTNINJA]

I say Oro will win this with his battle experience and vast jutsu knowledge. Gaara would give him a tough battle. If Oro is not healthy then he would lose this. That is how close I believe it is.

[Odama123]

if this is in the desert, then gaara wins, unless oro has a justu that lets him fly like deidara

[Kai]

if this is in the desert, then gaara wins, unless oro has a justu that lets him fly like deidara

Apparently you've forgotten how freakishly long this guy could extend his neck, as well as the kusanagi that could "pierce through any object."
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/volume33.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=23240

[Hot Flash]

Oro would have something that could handle Gaara.

[durtycheese]

unless gaara turns into full shukaku form he probably cant beat a sannin. oro has alot more experience.