Nidaime vs. Kazekage Gaara

[TreeofSephri]

I was inspired to make this topic after I saw a Gaara vs. Sandaime thread. This is a good battle because we don't know if Gaara's sand would still be as effective if it was wet. We can assume that once the sand gets wet then it will be harder to move and manipulate meaning that Gaara will be wasting a great deal of chakra. Nidaime would probably create his own water source and their would be no safe place for the sand. Even if Gaara were to sit in the air, Nidaime could use a suijinheki to eliminate the sand and protect himself.

[hyuuga_neji14732]

Nidaime would win sand are highly ineffective against water techniques

[Qrαhms]

First of all I would like to state that; Nidaime is a Suiton user, hence a Water element type of shinobi. Gaara, on the other hand, uses SAND. He is not a Doton type user in any way. His power to manipulate sand was granted to him as for being the host of One Tail Shukaku. He can solidify the sand with chakra, but he can't turn them into solid rocks.

Physically, water WILL overcome sand. Suijinheki can be very effective against Gaara's attacks. Heck, even Shuiryudan no Jutsu can be a threat to Gaara's defense if he decides to stay put. Nidaime can use those to freeze Gaara's offense, put him in defense mode and create an opening. When the opportunity arrives, he may try out kunai + explosive tags to deal big time damage to Gaara.

Gaara, on the other hand, has a very slim chance of winning. Since Sabaku Sousou is his bread and butter, he might want to try to catch Nidaime from behind with Bakuryu Ryuusa and IF Nidaime is not able to survive that, only then Gaara will be able to finish him off.

To me, who owns this round depends heavily on the terrain. If it was like when Kakashi VS Zabuza, then the fight will surely goes go towards Nidaime's favour. But bear in mind that Nidaime is only a Suiton user, not some Jinchuuriki with the power to create water or such. He can use high level Suiton jutsus, but no infinitely. He better smack Gaara hard right from the start if he wants to take Gaara out.

[Pein]

nidaime garra is just to weak

[shurikentarget]

nidaime
once sand gets wet it becomes clumpy ( is that an english word?? excuse me my
english is terrible) and therefore nidaime could easily beat him

[Panic Attack]

Nidaime wins this.

[the_anomaly]

He can solidify the sand with chakra, but he can't turn them into solid rocks.


I have to disagree there. Garra can make his sand pretty damn hard. For example during the Saskue Garra fight. Sasuke can not penertrate Garra's defence when he creates that sand sphere. It takes Chidori and a huge run up at super fast speed to penertrate Garras defence.

Another example is during the Garra V Kimi fight one of CS3 Kimi's last moves he makes a spear our of bone on his arm.
Kimi comments that that is as hard as he can make it and I think he said its harder than diamond. Garra's Defence is able to block and destroy that spear.
From this it seems like the sand can be made as hard as rock or even harder.

I think the winner of this fight depends upon the surrounding area. Garra could create more sand etc from the Earth if there was lots & the 2nd Hokage could use the surrounding water to his advantage if there was any.
From the top of my head I would go with the 2nd Hokage.

[Qrαhms]

I have to disagree there. Garra can make his sand pretty damn hard. For example during the Saskue Garra fight. Sasuke can not penertrate Garra's defence when he creates that sand sphere. It takes Chidori and a huge run up at super fast speed to penertrate Garras defence.

Another example is during the Garra V Kimi fight one of CS3 Kimi's last moves he makes a spear our of bone on his arm.
Kimi comments that that is as hard as he can make it and I think he said its harder than diamond. Garra's Defence is able to block and destroy that spear.
From this it seems like the sand can be made as hard as rock or even harder.

I think the winner of this fight depends upon the surrounding area. Garra could create more sand etc from the Earth if there was lots & the 2nd Hokage could use the surrounding water to his advantage if there was any.
From the top of my head I would go with the 2nd Hokage.
Sand is sand. Rock is rock. Both are physically different.

Gaara's Shukaku no Tate - Gaara extract the best minerals (sand) and compact them with his chakra to make a very powerful shield.

The secret lies within the physical condition of the sand itself. The sand shield (Shukaku no Tate) was condensed heavily with chakra, and with that, it means that the ties between the tiny bits of sand was strengthen, thus making the shield inpenetratable (Is this correct? If not, my bad. :P ).

What Kimimaro did was that he challenged the sand sand shield at its strong point (he didn't went for the weak point since he was unable to) - the denstiy of the sand of the sand shield. As a result, he lost, obviously because the density of his Bone Spear was inferior to that of the Sand Shield. And the density of the entity (the sand) came from the power of Gaara's chakra.

But, rock, by default, is solid. No strengthening is needed. The Shukaku no Tate can be as hard as a rock (or even harder), but the entity (sand) can never be able to turn into rock itself.

That's what I'm trying to imply. :amuse

[the_anomaly]

Thanks for the science lesson :D
All I was saying was Garra CAN make his SAND as hard or harder than ROCK.
It seems we are agreed on that?

[Mangekyo Bankai]

Nidaime could break out the water release after flooding the place and drown Gaara. The gourd would weigh him down in the water. Of course he could try to float on his sand but typhoons and such could handle that. Nidaime FTW!

[Mibu Clan]

Gaara, Nidaime has the Elemental Disadvantage.
Earth> Water.

Being that both are such high level Shinobi, (as well as assuming Nidaime is tougher than shown when he fought Sandaime), any advantage makes a huge difference.

I wonder weather Nidaime has anything with which he could get Gaara to use his real sand and thus weaken the egg shell, in which case ImO it could go down either way.

It was stated that Gaara's made sand is weaker and slower than his gaurd sand, thus ImO that sand isnt as complicated as was first thought when used against Kimimaro. The fact that he had to use his uber sand to get Deidara says alot about it...

ImO Gaara's other sand is just massive sand, and thats why it could protect that part of the village, because it was alot and condensed... but that sand is easier and many people look over that fact... Which is why he tends to be overestimated.

Either way ImO Gaara takes this.

[Miyata Prime]

Filler logic, that way --->

[durtycheese]

id say gaara would win just because hes one of my fav chars.

[YakushiKabuto]

id say gaara would win just because hes one of my fav chars.

Yup. Just like Kabuto can kill them both in less than 3 seconds because he's my favourite character.

[Qrαhms]

Thanks for the science lesson :D
All I was saying was Garra CAN make his SAND as hard or harder than ROCK.
It seems we are agreed on that?
Yes we do. smile-big

[shurikentarget]

Gaara, Nidaime has the Elemental Disadvantage.
Earth> Water.

I don't think so
Gaara doesn't use earth, he uses sand, have you ever been to a beach and poured some water on the sand? it becomes heavier, clumpy(still don't know if it's a word) and .... wet!!^^

i got some bad rep because people don't think that water makes sand harder to control
maybe i didn't make my point clear enough ( is that english? please pm me and give me some assistance) things that are heavy are harder to control
that's what they taught me in school, and what common sense says
i'm not saying that a talented genius like gaara can't control it, but surely you can agree with me that it wouldn't be that easy anymore

and another thing: have you ever built a solid wall of sand? try destroying it with your feet ( by kicking for example^^ lol) and you'll hurt yourself ( but why don't you try it anyway....) but if the flood comes and some waves reach the sand the wall falls! and don't you think that a high level suiton user could do more water damage than a simple wave?
so? what did we learn

water > sand
sorry for the long post
It really hurt to think of gaara losing (he is so cool)

[Seiko]

Nidaime is one of the strongest Hokage. He'd kill Gaara.

[TreeofSephri]

That actually showed up in a filler that Gaara weakness was water. I did not watch it I just heard about it. >_>

[Seiko]

I've heard Nidame was an excellent taijutsu user. This is Gaara's weakness.

[TreeofSephri]

Taijutsu is only effective if you have speed or a seemingly indestructible body.