Yondaime: A little too perfect?

[TreeofSephri]

I know my history with Yondaime post and I know how people will respond to my post but hear me out. Has anyone ever considered that the manga is painting Yondaime out to be the ultimate villain. Think about it have they revealed any of Yondaime flaws. All we know is that he was courageous, skillful, seemingly flawless nin. Doesn't this seem a little odd to you. The fact that they created a seemingly perfect character. Another point is Yondaime strength. He is a incredible shinobi pure and simple. He created two S rank and one rank jutsu on his own. He is considered one of the great hokage in the history of konoha. Doesn't his perfection make anyone sick. I would like to know that at least he had one flaw. Its like he's God or something.

[The Truth]

He is the finest Shinobi Konoha ever produced, thats what made him so great. Oro had the strength but lacked the love for his fellow ninjas. Sandiame too, as strong as he was, turned a blind eye to Oro's actions. Yondiame however is the embodiment of everything a ninja is supposed to be. If he seems perfect its because he was.

[TreeofSephri]

Doesn't it seem a little strange and somewhat suspicious. He has absolutely no flaws.

[Pareto]

Well, he's dead, and people probably have a tendency to remember only the best of him. For all we know, he could have been a bigger closet pervert than Ebisu...

[Micah]

It doesnt seem strange or suspicious. He is the flawless good guy, he sacrificed himself to save Konoha. If you are trying to imply that Yondy is somehow evil in some way, please explain your reasoning.

[TreeofSephri]

Yondaime perfection is all a farce pure and simple. He is just too flawless. It like the mississpi mud shuffle; you all look left while I go right. He makes you think he is a wonderful hero while he conspires in the background. Yondaime pretended to die and kept the power of the Kyuubi in Naruto so he could go back for it. That blond hair son of a bitch.

[Micah]

I see what you mean...now that I think about it Yondy did seem a little shifty. I think it was the grin...yes his grin definetely held some malice to it. I still think he is dead, but that doesnt mean he isnt pulling the strings from beyond the grave. He has everything planned out, Naruto will be the perfect vessel for the ressurection of the almighty Yondaime!

[Noctrine]

I had a feeling that this was going to turn into one of those Yondamine = Akatsuki leader topics, and while that would be fun, lets stay on topic with the flaws thing.


It's not really uncommon for their to be someone like Yondamine is in Naruto, in a story. His purpose (without much care for possible deeper meaning) is to inspire the young and all that other stuff (I want to say garbage because it would fit but it isn't really garbage). Many different works of fiction have set up people who were perfectly perfect, great in all there ways who died for the good of all... I think the word is Martyr, while I personally believe that there is always a better way to handle things before throwing away your life they exist nonetheless.

By the way, what were Shodai and Nidaime's flaws?

[hcheng02]

I know my history with Yondaime post and I know how people will respond to my post but hear me out. Has anyone ever considered that the manga is painting Yondaime out to be the ultimate villain. Think about it have they revealed any of Yondaime flaws. All we know is that he was courageous, skillful, seemingly flawless nin. Doesn't this seem a little odd to you. The fact that they created a seemingly perfect character. Another point is Yondaime strength. He is a incredible shinobi pure and simple. He created two S rank and one rank jutsu on his own. He is considered one of the great hokage in the history of konoha. Doesn't his perfection make anyone sick. I would like to know that at least he had one flaw. Its like he's God or something.

I agree with you that Yondaime seems a little too good to be true. I doubt he was that popular when he was Hokage though. Its just that his manner of death really elevated him above the rest of Konoha. Think about it, he died in the pinnacle of glory, having rescued everyone from the strongest demon ever known. Its like Abraham Lincoln. When he was alive, lots of people hated him. But he was assasinated at the pinnacle of glory as well, right after winning the Civil War, which is why he's considered a saint by people now. I don't think that Yondaime's the AL, but it would be interesting to see his imperfections during a Yondaime Gaiden. I'm guessing that his personality isn't as charming as people like to think, and that he would be hard to work with. There could be a bunch of other flaws: arrogance, being a little distant, frivolous with women, shallow, etc. that could fit into his genius personality

[Instant Karma]

Well, i'm one of those that believe Yondy's as dead as a doornail and IMO i can't wrap my mind around him having malicious intentions when he was willing to die for Konoha.

Eitherway in all honesty, we simply don't know enough about the guy to point out what the flaws were! We don't even know where he sprung up from. He does seem a little too good to be true if you think about it overmuch, but for now i suppose further details about him would ruin the impact of the surprise once his relationship (whatever it may be) with Naruto is revealed. I'm sure that in actuality he committed a flub here or there, he was a human.

Either way, his legendary status is practically the zenith as far as Hokage-dom goes. And nothing can take that away. He wasn't perfect, i'm sure, but he was as perfect as a ninja could be.

[mostly]

Yeah... good point here I mean the guy just has no vices. You telling me that even after training under Super-Number-1-Specialist-Pervert Jiraiya-sama that he is still so squeaky clean. Well I guess he maybe was a lot like Naruto in that sense... I picture him as a bit of a goof, thats why Kakashi is probably also like that (with his IchaIcha Paradise). But I don't think that he was evil at all.

[Summoner Lenne]

What people forget is he hasn't always been pointed out as being good.

Tsunade called him annoying and ugly for god's sake! I think he was alot like Naruto, he had lots of annoying qualities but when people look back on him they're only gonna recite the good. He DID die for the village atfer all. No, I think he had faults, but much more good than bad.

(And, as pointed out. His sensei's a perv. His student's a perv. I think somewhere in that mix HE was a perv.)

[TreeofSephri]

That blond son of a bitch he almost got away with it.

[durtycheese]

he was the ultimeate ninja.

[TreeofSephri]

Correction, he is the ultimate phony. Yondaime part in Naruto is not done yet. He could have easily found a way to escape death. Now I am not necessarily stating that he is the AL. However, I am saying that he is a major villian.

[Kai]

Are you just angry because he is a seemingly perfect shinobi? He pretty much is, and is the benchmark that the main character wishes to surpass.

Yondaime is like the strong hero who turned to stone fighting the dragon in fairy tales.

[Kuroro]

Denying Yondaime's perfection is like denouncing the following things:

--Kisame's sharkman smeximess.

--Aobo's awesomeness.

--Pie is good.

-KWGoD is godly.

[sharinkugon]

"that blonde son of a bitch" lmao

[Splintered]

Yondaime's less of a character and more of a prop, something like a statue. He's not suppose to be full of dimensions, he's suppose to be the shinobi ideal, hence he's perfect. Kishimoto use Yondaime as the moral and strength pillar and benchmark for Naruto.

[shendaime]

i agree with above poster yondaime is ment to be narutos goal to be just like him. and we dont know that much about him so he could have had flaws he was the Ero-sannin he was probably the greatest pervet of konoha

[TrentMalik]

Anyone that good must be evil!

Ok ok lets move on. Sure no ones perfect not even him. He had his flaws, but with traning perhaps he rose above. We know for a fact that Jiraiya like to take the seemingly "failure" and make them into something great. He stated something to that effect during the Tsunade/Orochimaru/Jiraiya fight.

My guess is his biggest error is what happened to Naurto's mother.

[Mangekyo Bankai]

I agree ToS, there is something afoot here, and Yondaime is at the center of it. Maybe it's subliminal Aryian Nazi propaganda...

[sangofluter8448]

My guess is his biggest error is what happened to Naurto's mother.
Probably. In Kakashi Gaiden he didn't really show much of his personality besides his perfectness. You know, he might be a mix between Sasuke and Naruto. a little distant and a little caring.

[sangofluter8448]

My guess is his biggest error is what happened to Naurto's mother.

Probably. In Kakashi Gaiden he didn't really show much of his personality besides his perfectness. You know, he might be a mix between Sasuke and Naruto. a little distant and a little caring.

[Cirus]

Yes I do admit Yondy is shown as perfect due to facts we are presented with. Hell if I was to die in that fashon I would want to be remembered in that way. I am just saying that actions speak more then words can, and some of the actions that he did spoke for alot, and we all know that people are not perfect. He did have his faults, which some may be revealed in the future, but over all they were minor faults I am sure of.
Now on to the argument of being a bad guy. I say no on that answer. With a character such as him, I am sure that he will come up in the story as a person to finish some undone buisness. Or something along those lines, but not be the over all hero of the story. But what am I saying this is just my opinion.

[Colonel Angus]

Yondaime's less of a character and more of a prop, something like a statue. He's not suppose to be full of dimensions, he's suppose to be the shinobi ideal, hence he's perfect. Kishimoto use Yondaime as the moral and strength pillar and benchmark for Naruto.

Damn.. Got to it before me..

But in any case. It's called a plot device. That's the bar that's set for Naruto to surpass. And he will by then end.

[Maramusa]

Hey guys, Yondaime is dead, he is NOT the Akatsuki leader, live with it

[bancy]

I really don't like characters being all perfect. ^^ But I don't know, his 'perfection' sorts of suits him.

Actually, we never really see that much of Yondaime, ever, so we can't really judge for ourselves. We always have to judge from the praise of others. So we don't really know if he's that perfect. People who like one person tend to put in the positive and the overall more than the tiny flaws and the negative.

[coriander]

we may think so because we know so little about him... :noworry

[TreeofSephri]

Damn.. Got to it before me..

But in any case. It's called a plot device. That's the bar that's set for Naruto to surpass. And he will by then end.

How do you past perfection?

[ElementalShinobi]

Probably because as a shinobi and a person he was perfection. He is just there to show naruto what he needs to surpass to be great.

[Chee]

...How can he be perfect if he's dead...?

[テマリ]

I kinda agree with this thread...

He must have some weakness...
(Maybe his weakness in like Kakashi's... pfft... Icha Icha tactics XD)

[Kusogitsune]

Yondy's an asshole, just like Sarutobi.

[Levithian]

I know my history with Yondaime post and I know how people will respond to my post but hear me out. Has anyone ever considered that the manga is painting Yondaime out to be the ultimate villain. Think about it have they revealed any of Yondaime flaws. All we know is that he was courageous, skillful, seemingly flawless nin. Doesn't this seem a little odd to you. The fact that they created a seemingly perfect character. Another point is Yondaime strength. He is a incredible shinobi pure and simple. He created two S rank and one rank jutsu on his own. He is considered one of the great hokage in the history of konoha. Doesn't his perfection make anyone sick. I would like to know that at least he had one flaw. Its like he's God or something.


I don't like flaws or human frailty in some cases in my anime...for the same reason I like Orochimaru's skin tone over Sakura's...Or like Hinata type eyes...or why I think Sakura's to much like a real girl for Anime comfort...I want the unnatural...and so him being portrayed as unnaturally flawless is fine by me...

[Fai]

I agree with you to some extent.

Yondaime's less of a character and more of a prop, something like a statue. He's not suppose to be full of dimensions, he's suppose to be the shinobi ideal, hence he's perfect. Kishimoto use Yondaime as the moral and strength pillar and benchmark for Naruto.
But I think this explains what I think about Yondaime's place in the series.

[Circe]

His seeming perfection is why Naruto seems to be the perfect match for him. Father/son

[Repstorm]

Yondaime is dead and is little more then a plot device.

[Ninja_dude]

yondie is a allaround nice guy. he had perfect nin, tai, gen jutsu.. and he was probably a pervert. it all makes sense. i made a thread about it a long time ago. about the perverted line that runs through konoha. it also states that all perverts are strong but all strong guys aren't perverted. and yondie is the third part of the line. (Sandaime - Jiraiya - Yondie - Kakashi - Naruto - Konohamaru... the last one is a bit off maýbe)

[uchiha_shifty]

^^
agree hes just a milestone for naruto to surpass like the pinnacle of ninjaness (new word for the dictionary)

smoething to inspire the village to be great like him


+ninja dude konohamaru isn't necessarily in that line cuz ebisu his sensie but naruto is like his friend teacher dude (taught him the sexy justsu and kage bunshin)

[Ninja_dude]

true.. but he will be someday.. he will rise to be great perve..ninja

[Scorpion]

Nobodys perfect no matter what, he has to have some flaws. For instance what happened to his wife? if she died in theKyuubi attack where was he. He should be able to save everyone if he was so perfect.

[Yellow]

He is the finest Shinobi Konoha ever produced, thats what made him so great. Oro had the strength but lacked the love for his fellow ninjas. Sandiame too, as strong as he was, turned a blind eye to Oro's actions. Yondiame however is the embodiment of everything a ninja is supposed to be. If he seems perfect its because he was.
God damn I love this posts so much.:wtf

Yondaime's less of a character and more of a prop, something like a statue. He's not suppose to be full of dimensions, he's suppose to be the shinobi ideal, hence he's perfect. Kishimoto use Yondaime as the moral and strength pillar and benchmark for Naruto.
Lol. I don't like how you describe him as less of a character and more of a prop but I agree he's the benchmark for Naruto. Although right now it doesn't seem like Naruto will ever surpass him.


Nobodys perfect no matter what, he has to have some flaws. For instance what happened to his wife? if she died in theKyuubi attack where was he. He should be able to save everyone if he was so perfect.

What makes you think he had a wife?

Yondaime is perfect in every way.


My view on this is that Yondaime is the essence of a true shinobi. He's a superlative shinobi and he's there to show what perfection is in the Narutoverse. He's there for Naruto to someday surpass or equal.

[Le Pyro]

He was the perfect ninja, hence why he is dead. People who seem to good are killed off eventually. That’s why even Naruto has been defeated at least once because making someone too strong is very hard to kill off, i think that’s why kishi had Yondaime’s life end at his own hands, i mean can anyone imagine him dying any other way? You’d kinda need the ninja who was able to seal the fox demon to appear flawless anyway..

[YellowFlash23]

I have a feeling that is the effect Kishi was looking for. He wanted to create the perfect character. Yondaime is everything a shinobi is supposed to be. He's smart, skilled, creative, kills without question, but he's human. He cared for and loved Konoha, the people, and his fellow ninjas, and it was this that his perfection stemmed from. I think Kishi used this to combat the Kyuubi. Yondaime, being the perfect shinobi, the essence of all that is good, was meant to combat, and oppose the essence of all that is evil (Kyuubi). I think he probably had the best, and most likable personality of any character in Naruto, and it's a shame we haven't seen much of it.

Naruto also needed a main shinobi to surpass to become the greatest shinobi of all time.

[LittleBlondePunk]

I dont hink the fourth was perfect, im sure there is something he has done that we dont know about int he story because he is thought of as in a good way, because his dedication and determination to the village. Everyone has flaws but kishi would rather write about the goodness of fourth.

[Kusogitsune]

The fourth is an asshole. There, I said it.

[Freiza]

Has anyone ever considered that the manga is painting Yondaime out to be the ultimate villain.You really lost me here.

anyways i agree, he seems to perfect and nice, but then again he was legendary, he did stop kyuubi, he did end the last great war..by himself i might add, he did indeed invent those jutsus, but as far as perfect, i dont know. They never said anything about his personality.

[Yakushi Kabuto]

From what we have learned about him, yes he does seem utterly flawless. It amused me that that appearent love of woman shared by Sarutobi and Jiraiya seems to have skipped over Yondaime and is only barely present in Kakashi with those books.

But that aside, it makes sense to me, people don't speak of bad things that heroes do, particularly someone who has saved an entire village through giving up his life.

[Yellow]

It amused me that that appearent love of woman shared by Sarutobi and Jiraiya seems to have skipped over Yondaime

Are you trying to say Yondaime doesn't love women?


Yondaime has no need to act foolish over women like Sarutobi and Jiraiya cause he gets women anytime he wants.:noworry

[Yellow]

It amused me that that appearent love of woman shared by Sarutobi and Jiraiya seems to have skipped over Yondaime

Are you trying to say Yondaime doesn't love women?


Yondaime has no need to act foolish over women like Sarutobi and Jiraiya cause he gets women anytime he wants.:noworry

[Levithian]

Are you trying to say Yondaime doesn't love women?


Yondaime has no need to act foolish over women like Sarutobi and Jiraiya cause he gets women anytime he wants.:noworry


Yeah, he was always cruising for a piece of ass...Joking... He was a great man...

[Shenlong7]

Well the Yondaime has only been listed in flash backs of people so of course they're looking at his character, but you never see how his strength compares to others. Just like Kakashi, people saw him as that perfect character and then Kishimoto shows him being caught in Zabuza's trap. It takes a persons image of perfection and crumples it. Like Rock Lee when he got beatby Gaara.

[Yellow]

Well the Yondaime has only been listed in flash backs of people so of course they're looking at his character, but you never see how his strength compares to others. Just like Kakashi, people saw him as that perfect character and then Kishimoto shows him being caught in Zabuza's trap. It takes a persons image of perfection and crumples it. Like Rock Lee when he got beatby Gaara.

We saw how his strength compares to rock ninjas in the Kakashi Gaiden.:/

[Metric]

We hardly even know anything about him, how can you say he's too perfect

[Razgriz77]

Only the good die young, the pricks live forever.-LB
Yondaime was far from perfect, but an inspiration to all. Obito's death should have been avoided if Yondy was the penultimate. But even in his faults you can't put him down much. I just like the guy.

[Chrozs Areving]

What I can see is that he may have been perfect in others vision but! He tried the impossible, Rasengan + Element.That is one flaw(in my opinion) and heck, Naruto surpassed him in that.

That proves he is not so perfect.

[Jackal]

*SPOILER* bit off topic. doesnt the akaysuiki leader look like yondaime... just a bit.

[Chrozs Areving]

Sorry to break your heart but he does not look like Yondaime, not one speek.

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/9371/aldc1.png

[Scorpion]

He couldn't save "Obito"

There not perfect.

[Levithian]

Top 10 reasons he was a great man:


1.He was a just man...
2.He got all the women...
3.He knew Sasuke was Narutosexual...
4.He would have liked Dark Naruto...
5.he had god like power.
6.He knew he was more special than Sasuke...
7.He thought Tsunade was more sexy than Anko.
8.he had a great Hentai collection...
9.he was loved by all.
10. He had a 19 inch penis...

[Death2Ninja]

That blond son of a bitch he almost got away with it.

Oh shut the fuck up you dumb fuck.

To be truthfully logical, none of us know what the hell is with Yondaime, however, with the new chapter 363 we know that Yondaime isn't pulling the strings behind Akatsuki. You turned your 'assumptions' about Yondaime into something like you 'know' about him, which pisses the fuck out of me. Why can't you just be patient and let the story tell us what's going on, instead of hanging around here and asking stupid questions?

[Jijjin]

I don't think Yondaime is a little too perfect... yet. We have yet to see how strong he really is. He sort of won or lost or whatever against Kyuubi, but was able to seal him nonetheless. Now the real question would be Yondaime vs. Akatsuki. If the Akatsuki leader (Pein), or that dude who he reported to can't take on 8-tailed Naruto (if Naruto ever gets to that extreme)... Then I guess I'd agree with you.

Edit: Oh, and we don't know how well the 4th fought against Kyuubi. He either was getting pwned and was forced to seal him, or it was a grueling battle and the 4th sealed him when they were both weak or when he had the chance... There's still alot of mystery about him that will hopefully be revealed later in the manga.

[Kuroro]

Its like he's God or something.

The sooner you accept the fact that Yondaime is a Shinobi God, the sooner you will realize the truth. Bow down foolish peasant, and realize the divine truth! :nuts

[Shenlong7]

Are you hating on the Yondaime because he's just that fly and you're not or is it the fact that you can't believe that the Yondaime is the Japanese version of Jesus Christ. He sacrificed himself that forever makes him the best and when he was alive he had amazing powers

[Shenlong7]

Are you hating on the Yondaime because he's just that fly and you're not or is it the fact that you can't believe that the Yondaime is the Japanese version of Jesus Christ. He sacrificed himself that forever makes him the best and when he was alive he had amazing powers

[Kai]

I smile upon all my minions. :)

[hcheng02]

I would love it if Kishi took a page from J K Rowling and introduced some dark family secret on Yondaime. Those who have read the 7th Harry Potter book will understand what I am talking about.

[Z.:Momochi:.Z]

I agree somewhat.