Itachi vs. Yondaime

[Seiko]

If the Uchiha prodigy fight the Fourth Hokage.

Who would win?

[Mukuro]

Hiraishin no Jutsu + Kunai. Yondaime can beat any single ninja.

[Asuma: Konoha's Blade]

I dunno if Itachi goes all out from beginning he could maybe capture yondime with mindrape.

[ZE]

Please, no, not again. Being a yondaime fan I say yondaime takes this easily, but I don’t care anymore, with time kishi will prove that yondaime was the strongest ever, before naruto, that is. Little by little kishi will give us hints, like when kakashi said only naruto can surpass yondaime. I knew some line like that would pop out sooner or later. And more is to come.

[Spanish Hoffkage]

again that combat?????

:arg

points at ZE post

[Seiko]

It seems like you guys don't know a whole lot.

Yondaime and Itachi deserve respect as equal opponents.

They are the pinnacle of power for both Naruto and Sasuke.

Regardless of who would win, it's not going to be an easy win.

[ZE]

Both have the most deadlier jutsus in the series IMO. Itachi has two mangenkyo sharingan jutsus and Yondaime has Harashin, which allows him to move from place to place at the same speed someone from an entirely different and more powerful manga could, Goku. Meaning yondaime can escape from battle incase some problem happens while itachi has to run using his feet.

We know yondaime could extract the soul of kyuubi, who has infinite chakra, to do that yondaime showed he had strength chakra and the will of fire, that means, if by any chance yondaime looks at itachi and enters in tusunomi he probably would survive and keep fighting, he endured a lot against kyuubi, I don’t think mental pain would be fatal to yondaime, someone with the will.

So now we know yondaime can survive tusunomi and live to tell the story and keep fighting or escape using harashin, what if yondaime is careful and doesn’t look at itachi´s eyes? We are talking about a previous hokage, he knows what is the most dangerous thing about sharingan users, being careful first and later catching yondaime with harashin would be fatal for itachi. Like the databook says, once yondaime places the seal of harashin on you, it becomes a seal of death. It doesn’t matter if his opponents use kage bushin later, they are marked, and yondaime will always know where they are.

So harashin is fatal for itachi.
Shiki fujin would be fatal and kill itachi too, but that would result in a draw.
Tsusunomi is not fatal for yondaime.
Amaratsu may be fatal be we don´t know enough about that jutsu.

I doubt we already saw everything these guys have to offer, far from it, so we can just speculate, itachi has a lot of jutsus dispite being relatively young, and yondaime must have invented more jutsus, we know he has razengan, frog jutsus and shiki fujin.

It seems like you guys don't know a whole lot.

Yondaime and Itachi deserve respect as equal opponents.

They are the pinnacle of power for both Naruto and Sasuke.

Regardless of who would win, it's not going to be an easy win.


I agree, but yondaime has proved to be worthy enough, he defeated kyuubi and was hokage at young age, and invented a lot of incredible jutsus. While itachi is still young and has to prove he is on the top of the shinobi scale, I don’t doubt he is, but he still hasn’t proved it.

[Sasori]

Hiraishin no Jutsu + Kunai. Yondaime can beat any single ninja.This may be true, but not just by using Hiraishin + Kunai.

Kunai wouldn't be effective on someone like Orochimaru or Sasori for example.

We don't know enough about Yondaime's skills, but we can just more or less speculate that he was extremely strong.

[Kyon]

I will say double KO to be different. At the end, the field they're fighting in is destroyed and Yondaime delivers the finishing headbutt ala Naruto vs. Gaara and lays down on the ground to die.

[Spell]

Sorry but this thread breaks a little Battledome rules. We do not know much about them. We can only assume, but B-dome is made for battles not assumptions. This fight is pointles in that case.

[durtycheese]

i like both characters i do think both are pretty equal although we havent seen much of them fight yet. whoever wins, it wont be easy.

[Mangekyo Bankai]

Both have the most deadlier jutsus in the series IMO. Itachi has two mangenkyo sharingan jutsus and Yondaime has Harashin, which allows him to move from place to place at the same speed someone from an entirely different and more powerful manga could, Goku. Meaning yondaime can escape from battle incase some problem happens while itachi has to run using his feet.

We know yondaime could extract the soul of kyuubi, who has infinite chakra, to do that yondaime showed he had strength chakra and the will of fire, that means, if by any chance yondaime looks at itachi and enters in tusunomi he probably would survive and keep fighting, he endured a lot against kyuubi, I don’t think mental pain would be fatal to yondaime, someone with the will.

So now we know yondaime can survive tusunomi and live to tell the story and keep fighting or escape using harashin, what if yondaime is careful and doesn’t look at itachi´s eyes? We are talking about a previous hokage, he knows what is the most dangerous thing about sharingan users, being careful first and later catching yondaime with harashin would be fatal for itachi. Like the databook says, once yondaime places the seal of harashin on you, it becomes a seal of death. It doesn’t matter if his opponents use kage bushin later, they are marked, and yondaime will always know where they are.

So harashin is fatal for itachi.
Shiki fujin would be fatal and kill itachi too, but that would result in a draw.
Tsusunomi is not fatal for yondaime.
Amaratsu may be fatal be we don´t know enough about that jutsu.

I doubt we already saw everything these guys have to offer, far from it, so we can just speculate, itachi has a lot of jutsus dispite being relatively young, and yondaime must have invented more jutsus, we know he has razengan, frog jutsus and shiki fujin.




I agree, but yondaime has proved to be worthy enough, he defeated kyuubi and was hokage at young age, and invented a lot of incredible jutsus. While itachi is still young and has to prove he is on the top of the shinobi scale, I don’t doubt he is, but he still hasn’t proved it.


What the hell? So you are trying to downplay the effectiveness of "tusunomi" on the assumption that because Yondaime used the Shiki Fujin and he "went through alot with Kyuubi" he would be able to take it and keep on fighting? Incredible, Simply incredible. The Will of Fire? Kakashi had the Will of Fire, did that keep him from getting owned? No! The Will of Fire, the Heart of the Cards, and whatever other metaphorical characteristic can't save you from days of agonizing pain and mental anguish, no matter who you are. And if he gets caught in it, it won't be the pain he will have to worry about. Itachi can just walk up to him and slash his throat while he is in the jutsu. Of course the fight wouldn't be that easy, but I'd just like to clear up any misconception that a person can make it through Tsukuyomi and be A-OK just because he used a suicidal techinique on Kyuubi.

And as far has him "going through alot", what exactly is "alot"? I didn't see the fight, and neither did you. You are just speculating. We can assume that he went through alot, but we don't know for sure. He might have just summoned Gamabunta, did a couple moves, realized that he could take him out any other way and decided to seal him. Even if the fight took two solid months, it doesn't provide any grounds for saying that Tsukuyomi would be ineffective, and you presented this speculation as fact, twice no less!

Now about Yondaime knowing about MS. Probably not. The Sharingan secret techniques aren't something that the Uchiha clan would just tell anyone, even Yondaime. Hell, there is a whole secret aspect to the Sharingan that most Uchiha aren't even supposed to know about. Do you think Yondaime knows that too? Hokage doesn't mean all-knowing. He's a damned good shinobi but I doubt he knows every secret of every clan, that's ridiculous.

Finally the Hiraishin, perhaps the only techique more overrated than Tsukuyomi. First of all the kunai would have to hit or land very close to Itachi for him to be marked. Itachi is really freaking good with kunai and he's pretty damned fast, so I doubt he would get hit by it, and even if he did what if the kunai hits what turns out to be an exploding clone? Kaboom, there goes Yondaime. Or would the will of fire protect him from a massive explosion as well?

I'm not going to say that Itachi would pwn Yondaime or vice versa, I'll just end this post with saying that this isn't something that can simply be determined by one move, be it Tsukuyomi or Hiraishin. It would be an incredible fight that would leave both parties pretty wrecked. Who would win? It's really just a toss up.

[SuperSaiyan4]

um, i think that hiraishin jutsu thing is just the same as haku's blood line limit (teleporting to various locations and striking down the enemies at unawares). It just allows the Fourth to teleport to the location of his kunais. It does not necessarily increase the rate at which he can strike his enemies. The main purpose is to move his body ina position in which the enemy cannot react immediately and counter. I don't think we can speculate that Fourth was the strongest character ever solely based on this jutsu of his.
Btw, look at the chapter (in the chuunin exam arc, where the Third and Anko meet and talk about Orochimaru's return to konoha. The Third says that no one in the village at the time couldn't fight against Orochimaru EQUALLY except the Fourth). I don't think basing conclusions about the Fourth's strengths based on what we currently know would be a bit shallow, don't you think?

Anyways, if itachi can read hiraishin fast enough with his rasengan, i think he would stand a chance against the Fourth. Experience and technique wise, i don't know what would be the outcome.

[vagnard]

Yondaime. He is the most powerful ninja in the series. But Itachi would give him a good fight probably.

[itachi21]

It seems like you guys don't know a whole lot.

Yondaime and Itachi deserve respect as equal opponents.

They are the pinnacle of power for both Naruto and Sasuke.

Regardless of who would win, it's not going to be an easy win.

that's exactly what i think too :)

[Kai]

God this battle has been made at least over 3 times.

Yondaime was labeled as the greatest ninja Konoha had ever produced and is looked upon everyone.

Yondaime is the victor.

[Whisperkill]

Yondaime without a doubt

[Kuroro]

Now about Yondaime knowing about MS. Probably not. The Sharingan secret techniques aren't something that the Uchiha clan would just tell anyone, even Yondaime. Hell, there is a whole secret aspect to the Sharingan that most Uchiha aren't even supposed to know about. Do you think Yondaime knows that too? Hokage doesn't mean all-knowing. He's a damned good shinobi but I doubt he knows every secret of every clan, that's ridiculous.

Yondaime, no doubt, was familiar with the sharingan and the Uchiha Clan. After all, one of his students--Obito--is an Uchiha, and later on, Kakashi inherited his sharingan eye.

In regards to the MS, it appears it was not a tightly held secret like the secret hidden beneath the nakana shrine. Examples:

Kakashi knows about the MS (http://groups.msn.com/narutomangareturns/volume16.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=13914)

Fugaku--Sasuke's father--mentions the MS as if it's no big deal when Sasuke asks if different versions of the sharingan exist. (http://groups.msn.com/narutomangareturns/vol25.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=14147)

Evidently, since the Yondaime was an elite jounin before he became Hogake, and he had explicit ties with the Uchiha Clan, it is very well plausible that the Yondaime would know about the MS.

I'm not going to say that Itachi would pwn Yondaime or vice versa, I'll just end this post with saying that this isn't something that can simply be determined by one move, be it Tsukuyomi or Hiraishin. It would be an incredible fight that would leave both parties pretty wrecked. Who would win? It's really just a toss up.

I'd second this in an instant.

[TreeofSephri]

I say that Yondaime can use Hiraishin once and only once. Once Itachi sees what it can do, then he will come up with a good counter for it. I say that Itachi creates a Bunshin Bakuha and conceals himself. Yondaime creates places a tag on the clone and is blown to hell.

[King]

The thing is that we don't know enough about either except that Yondaime was the strongest ninja of all and that Itachi was still very strong, even as young ninja, being able to Mangekyou.

Hmm, well, I would say Yondaime but Itachi would put up a good fight.

[TreeofSephri]

Yea I am a little tired of Yondaime anyway. THe guy is perfect and unbeatable. I don't believe that but that is the pervading knowledge of the manga and forums.

[Aizen]

yondaime can switch to 2d vision, therefore resist genjutsu, then pwn him with kunai

[00raikiri00]

Yondaime, without a doubt, can beat itachi

[hyuuga_neji14732]

Yondaime is my pick personally but if he got hit with ameratsu hes toast but he was the yellow flash of konoha so it would not be an easy win either way

[Kaiji]

yondame

like itachi say i is gonna be dangerous if it a 1 on 1 with kyuubi and yondame own it easy but he die after that{by just sealing)

[Dread_Manda]

just as i thought alot of ppl think Yondaime would take it easy.You are very mistaken. Firstly, Itachi has incredible natural speed, his fight with kakashi in part one is proof enough of that. This plus Sharingan means that even if Yondaime teleports right behind him he can react in time to counter the attack. Plus he can trap Yondaime in Genjutsu without even looking at him, all it takes is one finger. Plus Amaterasu and Susanoo are also very powerful, and as much as many ppl would say that the legendary Yondaime can survive Tsukuyomi, im sry to tell you but he can't. Just because he didn't kill kakashi with it doesn't mean it is just for mental torture. kakashi himself said that if the correct amount of pressure was applied with the jutsu then he could have been killed easily. theres only so much the mind can take and if Itachi traps Yondaiome in tsukuyomi with the intent to kill him, then he will kill him. This would be very close.

[SuperSaiyan4]

why does everyone think that hiranshin means instant death for the opponent -.-

that move just teleports the user instantly towards the kunai. Doesn't mean that thing allows the user to attack within the blink of an eye. It's just like Haku's demonic mirrors. Hirashin just gives you an edge by allowing you to strike the enemy at unawares within a short period of time.

[Espionage]

:oh Yondaime, no doubt, was familiar with the sharingan and the Uchiha Clan. After all, one of his students--Obito--is an Uchiha, and later on, Kakashi inherited his sharingan eye.

In regards to the MS, it appears it was not a tightly held secret like the secret hidden beneath the nakana shrine. Examples:

Kakashi knows about the MS (http://groups.msn.com/narutomangareturns/volume16.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=13914)

Fugaku--Sasuke's father--mentions the MS as if it's no big deal when Sasuke asks if different versions of the sharingan exist. (http://groups.msn.com/narutomangareturns/vol25.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=14147)

Evidently, since the Yondaime was an elite jounin before he became Hogake, and he had explicit ties with the Uchiha Clan, it is very well plausible that the Yondaime would know about the MS.



I'd second this in an instant.


Im sorry....but how did Kakashi know about Mangekyou? He had a idea if what it could do but he didnt know jack shit about it.:oh

[blash]

yondaime wins. For obivious reasons

[Prince of Perverts]

These are the most idiotic threads ever made... Itachi fans and Yondaime fans will argue hours and hour just because they're to stubborn to admit that NO ONE KNOWS ENOUGH ABOUT EITHER TO KNOW WHO WOULD WIN. Most people use the excuse against Itachi's case "Naruto beat an exact clone of Itachi". That might be true, but it was thirty percent chakra clone. Also people use the fact that yondaime beat Kyuubi. He beat the Kyuubi using an unfair jutsu which sealed the Kyuubi and killed himself, it was unfair because in an all out battle without the sealing technique Yondaime would of been killed easily.

All in all this battle is all speculation, but I will say Yondaime just because he looks cooler.

You Sir... Fail. Also I fail because like yondaime for looking cooler.

[Espionage]

These are the most idiotic threads ever made... Itachi fans and Yondaime fans will argue hours and hour just because they're to stubborn to admit that NO ONE KNOWS ENOUGH ABOUT EITHER TO KNOW WHO WOULD WIN. Most people use the excuse against Itachi's case "Naruto beat an exact clone of Itachi". That might be true, but it was thirty percent chakra clone. Also people use the fact that yondaime beat Kyuubi. He beat the Kyuubi using an unfair jutsu which sealed the Kyuubi and killed himself, it was unfair because in an all out battle without the sealing technique Yondaime would of been killed easily.

All in all this battle is all speculation, but I will say Yondaime just because he looks cooler.

You Sir... Fail. Also I fail because like yondaime for looking cooler.

Tell it how it is BROTHER! I wold rep you but I cant atm, oh and a guy named durtycheese tried to neg rep me and failed :D

[Dudemancool]

Hiraishin is just too broken for Itachi to stand a chance =/

[TreeofSephri]

If Yondaime looks in Itachi's eyes, then he is dead.

[ameterasu_41]

From the few hints about the Yondaime, I'd have to assume he'd win, somehow, but I'm pretty sure Itachi would have a good chance. Since he can trap someone in genjutsu with his finger, he's automatically a tough opponent. Also, ameterasu must be a very powerful jutsu, but it'd have to be a one hit kill since it drains him so much.

[Kai]

If Yondaime looks in Itachi's eyes, then he is dead.

Actually it's more like if Yondaime looks into Itachi's eyes and waits for him to close his eyes, then open them once again, he is dead.

[TreeofSephri]

No not really because he would already be in Tsukiyomi or Itachi could use a finger genjutsu.

[Yellow]

The greatest Uchiha vs. the greatest Hokage. Both are way too fast. Hmmm....it would be a matter of who gets hit first and if after the first hit they could follow up with more hits. I'm sure Yondaime could avoid Tsuyomi butthen Itachi has the finger genjutsus. If Yondaime summons Gamabunta he wins. If not he still wins just with more difficulty.

[TreeofSephri]

The greatest Uchiha vs. the greatest Hokage. Both are way too fast. Hmmm....it would be a matter of who gets hit first and if after the first hit they could follow up with more hits. I'm sure Yondaime could avoid Tsuyomi butthen Itachi has the finger genjutsus. If Yondaime summons Gamabunta he wins. If not he still wins just with more difficulty.

Yondaime is not fast. He has a jutsu that allows him to teleport that is it. He does not have superhuman speed.

[Jio]

I am still wondering if Yondaime can Hirashin outside of TS seeing as it is a jutsu which breaks space and time.

Besides the point I give the match to him, at worst he would draw this match through death god seal. Other than that I see Hirashin and Rasengan being too much for Itachi.

[MISTNINJA]

I am still wondering if Yondaime can Hirashin outside of TS seeing as it is a jutsu which breaks space and time.

Besides the point I give the match to him, at worst he would draw this match through death god seal. Other than that I see Hirashin and Rasengan being too much for Itachi.


Good point, I doubt he can Hirashin outside of TS since Itachi says that he has total control of time and space. As far as who wins I really have no idea and am still learning more about Yondaime.

[TreeofSephri]

Of course he cannot Hiraishin out of Tsukiyomi because Tsukiyomi is a genjutsu. Not to mention the fact that Yondaime would not be able to escape the genjutsu and thus would not be able to form the handseal necessary to use Hiraishin.

[TWF]

Itachi finger genjutsu Yondaime.

[Yellow]

Yondaime is not fast. He has a jutsu that allows him to teleport that is it. He does not have superhuman speed.

Sure Yondaime uses his jutsu to teleport but you have no proof he wasn't fast.
Itachi is afraid of Jiraiya. Jiraiya trained Yondaime. Yondaime has gamabunta. I don't see how Itachi could beat Yondaime.

Yondaime would never get caught in TS so I count that out.
Also Yondaime had to immobilize Kyuubi to seal it. If he could immobilize a tailed beast then I don't see why he couldn't beat Itachi.
Itachi is good but Yondaime owns all.

[TWF]

Sure Yondaime uses his jutsu to teleport but you have no proof he wasn't fast.
Itachi is afraid of Jiraiya. Jiraiya trained Yondaime. Yondaime has gamabunta. I don't see how Itachi could beat Yondaime.

Yondaime would never get caught in TS so I count that out.
Also Yondaime had to immobilize Kyuubi to seal it. If he could immobilize a tailed beast then I don't see why he couldn't beat Itachi.
Itachi is good but Yondaime owns all.

And a 13 year old Itachi owned the strongest and most skilled of the Sannins, Orochimaru, who also called by the strongest of the Hokages as a "once in a decade genius".

Yeah I'm pretty sure minimum a 20 year old Itachi can keep up with Yondaime with equal footing.

[Lazybook]

We dont have enough info for this battle

[Tmb04]

People overrate Yondaime too much. We only know about a few of his skills, and yet people still rate him as the very best ever. And on the other hand, lately people have been underrating Itachi too much. They say because he is so "Young" that he isn't experienced enough to take on people like The Sannins or Yondaime. But what you have to realize is, it's not always about experience, It's more about skill. Both Yondaime and Itachi are some of the Best Shinobi ever. They were/are both young and Skilled as all hell. Both of them have Great accomplishments. One Beat the Strongest Demon ever, while the other Destroyed the most powerful clan in Konoha history. Yet we still dont know enough about either to put them up against each other. So this is a Draw

[TreeofSephri]

Sure Yondaime uses his jutsu to teleport but you have no proof he wasn't fast.
Itachi is afraid of Jiraiya. Jiraiya trained Yondaime. Yondaime has gamabunta. I don't see how Itachi could beat Yondaime.

Yondaime would never get caught in TS so I count that out.
Also Yondaime had to immobilize Kyuubi to seal it. If he could immobilize a tailed beast then I don't see why he couldn't beat Itachi.
Itachi is good but Yondaime owns all.

There is also no proof to support the fact that he was fast. People tend to think that he was called the Yellow Flash because of his speed. This is untrue. Also if there is no proof that he is fast or wasn't fast then why are we using it in a debate.
Itachi is not afraid of Jiraiya he does however admit that he is not strong enough to fight him. Yondaime surpassed Jiraiya so you cannot use the argument A>B>C. How can that Yondaime would not get caught in TS. He does not know about Mangekyou Sharingan and all it takes is a glance into those eyes and he is trapped. Yondaime did not have to immobilze Kyuubi because Kyuubi was standing there waving his tails around. Kyuubi had no idea what Yondaime was doing; he could have easily moved if he wanted too. Pertaining to Gama, Itachi's Amaterasu could take care of him. After all it was strong enough to burn through Imagawa, a fire breathing toad, esophagus.

[TWF]

Itachi + White Fang > Yondaime easily, I'll tell you all that much.

[TreeofSephri]

White Fang would kill himself before the battle even starts.

[TWF]

White Fang would kill himself before the battle even starts.

Your an idiot.

[TreeofSephri]

White Fang did kill himself ,didn't he?

[.Reiko]

Yondaime FTW!

hes a cutie :nod

[Yellow]

And a 13 year old Itachi owned the strongest and most skilled of the Sannins, Orochimaru, who also called by the strongest of the Hokages as a "once in a decade genius".

Yeah I'm pretty sure minimum a 20 year old Itachi can keep up with Yondaime with equal footing.

Oro isn't the fucking strongest sannin. He's a genius but not the strongest. Jiraiya is the strongest of the sannin. If Itachi beat Oro but said he couldn't beat Jiraiya then that makes Jiraiya like 100 times stronger than Oro. I respect Oro's strength but he's nowhere near Jiraiya's level.

I think I did say Itachi could keep up with Yondaime in my first post but Yondaime with Gamabunta would have a slight adavntage.

Amatseru burned through a toad esophagus which doesn't move. Its a stationary thing. Gamabunta would be moving. A big ass frog and the greatest Hokage= death for Itachi.
once again I'll say it Yondaime owns all.

[TreeofSephri]

Oro isn't the fucking strongest sannin. He's a genius but not the strongest. Jiraiya is the strongest of the sannin. If Itachi beat Oro but said he couldn't beat Jiraiya then that makes Jiraiya like 100 times stronger than Oro. I respect Oro's strength but he's nowhere near Jiraiya's level.

I think I did say Itachi could keep up with Yondaime in my first post but Yondaime with Gamabunta would have a slight adavntage.

Amatseru burned through a toad esophagus which doesn't move. Its a stationary thing. Gamabunta would be moving. A big ass frog and the greatest Hokage= death for Itachi.
once again I'll say it Yondaime owns all.

Gamabunta is gigantic it does not matter if he is move or not he is a easy target,especially if he does not know if he is being targeted in the first place.
Where exactly are you getting these facts from concering Oro's strength. What evidence is there to support that Jiraiya is 100 time stronger than Oro. I am sorry but your bias is beginning to bleed into your argument making it sound a little irrational.

[Tmb04]

Oro isn't the fucking strongest sannin. He's a genius but not the strongest. Jiraiya is the strongest of the sannin. If Itachi beat Oro but said he couldn't beat Jiraiya then that makes Jiraiya like 100 times stronger than Oro. I respect Oro's strength but he's nowhere near Jiraiya's level.

I think I did say Itachi could keep up with Yondaime in my first post but Yondaime with Gamabunta would have a slight adavntage.

Amatseru burned through a toad esophagus which doesn't move. Its a stationary thing. Gamabunta would be moving. A big ass frog and the greatest Hokage= death for Itachi.
once again I'll say it Yondaime owns all.

Orochimaru was the strongest of the 3 sannin. Infact he would have been 4th Hokage before Yondaime if it wasnt for his evil ways. He Was a Genius and a Prodigy and has some of the strongest ever Jutsu.

Besides Sandaime was the Greatest ever Hokage

[TWF]

Oro isn't the fucking strongest sannin. He's a genius but not the strongest. Jiraiya is the strongest of the sannin. If Itachi beat Oro but said he couldn't beat Jiraiya then that makes Jiraiya like 100 times stronger than Oro. I respect Oro's strength but he's nowhere near Jiraiya's level.

I think I did say Itachi could keep up with Yondaime in my first post but Yondaime with Gamabunta would have a slight adavntage.

Amatseru burned through a toad esophagus which doesn't move. Its a stationary thing. Gamabunta would be moving. A big ass frog and the greatest Hokage= death for Itachi.
once again I'll say it Yondaime owns all.

No. We have two things to definetly support Orochimaru > Jiraiya. One, Sandaime Hokages praised Orochimaru as a once in a decade genius, something he never called Jiraiya. And basing their mutal performances against Mini-Kyuubi Naruto, in the end, Oro was playing with Naruto and smiling, Jiraiya was nearly dead.

[TreeofSephri]

No. We have two things to definetly support Orochimaru > Jiraiya. One, Sandaime Hokages praised Orochimaru as a once in a decade genius, something he never called Jiraiya. And basing their mutal performances against Mini-Kyuubi Naruto, in the end, Oro was playing with Naruto and smiling, Jiraiya was nearly dead.

The Sannin were all geniuses of their decade. Thats why all of them are reowned throughout the Narutoverse. We have no idea how Jiraya's fight with Mini Kyuubi went all we saw was him lying in a pile of rubble within a inch of his life. Oro's body was rejecting him so I would say that both were about the same. Not to mention the fact that Oro was Immortal but Jiraiya did not have that same luxury. Oro would have been dead a long time ago.

[TWF]

The Sannin were all geniuses of their decade. Thats why all of them are reowned throughout the Narutoverse. We have no idea how Jiraya's fight with Mini Kyuubi went all we saw was him lying in a pile of rubble within a inch of his life. Oro's body was rejecting him so I would say that both were about the same. Not to mention the fact that Oro was Immortal but Jiraiya did not have that same luxury. Oro would have been dead a long time ago.

Why do you fail so much? Sandaime specifically called Orochimaru a once in a decade genius, not the Sannin together. What does him having Immortal have to do with the praise he recieved from the God of Shinobi? Nothing, your wrong.

[Tmb04]

I dont think Jiraiya was praised a Genius when he was younger. In flashbacks, we seen he was a troublemaker. Maybe The sannin are Praised to be so great because of their accomplishments they had in The Shinobi wars and along with the fact that they were Sandaime's 3 pupils.

[TreeofSephri]

Why do you fail so much? Sandaime specifically called Orochimaru a once in a decade genius, not the Sannin together. What does him having Immortal have to do with the praise he recieved from the God of Shinobi? Nothing, your wrong.

I am saying that his immortality essentially helped him beat Mini Kyuubi. If you are going to compare both of those fights then you have to take Oro's Immortality into consideration. Jiraiya managed to reseal MiniKyuubi but he sustained a great deal of damage. We have no idea how this battle went just that he won but sustained major damage. Now look at Oro's fight, he was essentially getting no where and sustaining damage. He literally died about three times but thanks to his immortality he was able to keep fighting. However, he was forced to retreat due to his body rejecting him. If you think about it, Jiraiya actually is superior to Oro.

[Kai]

I've always thought the Sannin were so renowned because they had the greatest teamwork in history that could be matched by no other shinobi.

[TreeofSephri]

The manga leads us to believe they were special in their childhood also. They were essentially a team of geniuses.

[Tmb04]

I've always thought the Sannin were so renowned because they had the greatest teamwork in history that could be matched by no other shinobi.

That could be true, but why would Itachi be confident in beating Orochimaru, but when up against Jiraiya he wasnt so confident. They might be Renowned for their teamwork but they have great individual skills

[TWF]

I've always thought the Sannin were so renowned because they had the greatest teamwork in history that could be matched by no other shinobi.

Yes but I believe Orochimaru was the actual genius of the trio, as Sandaime was the one praising him specifically as such.

[TreeofSephri]

Oro was essentially the best genius.

[Kai]

That could be true, but why would Itachi be confident in beating Orochimaru, but when up against Jiraiya he wasnt so confident. They might be Renowned for their teamwork but they have great individual skills

Yeah, it's the great power triangle surrounding the Narutoverse. There was a thread regarding that in the Library, which I'd like to praise Sasuke3579 for writing out an essay of.

I don't recall every bit of his thread, but stuff explaining how Itachi was stating he probably couldn't take on Jiraiya in the PRE encounter, then POST encounter you see Kisame stating something along the lines of"Why was a retreat necessary for you? You could have..."

But yeah, its basically implied Orochimaru is the strongest of the trio. Not to mention he's freakishly gotten more powerful over the timeskip while Jiraiya has been writing porn novels/peeking at women and Tsunade has been busy with her duty as the hokage and teaching Sakura.

As for this battle, not very sure. I'm leaning towards Yondaime though.

[Yellow]

Gamabunta is gigantic it does not matter if he is move or not he is a easy target,especially if he does not know if he is being targeted in the first place.
Where exactly are you getting these facts from concering Oro's strength. What evidence is there to support that Jiraiya is 100 time stronger than Oro. I am sorry but your bias is beginning to bleed into your argument making it sound a little irrational.

If Itachi used amatseru to beat Gamabunta then he's left open for an attack. After he used amatseru to get out of the toad esophogus he was extremely weakened. So even if he beat Gamabunta with amatseru it would just give Yondaime an oppurtunity to kill Itachi and all others.

Ok Jiraiya isn't a 100 times stronger than Orochimaru but he sure as hell could own Oro anyday.

Look it goes like this Jiraiya owns all except Yondaime
Yondaime owns all.
Get it now. Jiraiya owns Orochimaru and Itachi. Yondaime owns Itachi and anyone else who wants to bring it.

[Tmb04]

If Itachi used amatseru to beat Gamabunta then he's left open for an attack. After he used amatseru to get out of the toad esophogus he was extremely weakened. So even if he beat Gamabunta with amatseru it would just give Yondaime an oppurtunity to kill Itachi and all others.

Ok Jiraiya isn't a 100 times stronger than Orochimaru but he sure as hell could own Oro anyday.

Look it goes like this Jiraiya owns all except Yondaime
Yondaime owns all.
Get it now. Jiraiya owns Orochimaru and Itachi. Yondaime owns Itachi and anyone else who wants to bring it.

Actually Sandaime owns all :nod

And Jiraiya doesn't own Orochimaru.. Atleast show proof

[Yellow]

Actually Sandaime owns all :nod

And Jiraiya doesn't own Orochimaru..

No the rules clearly state Sandaime prime owns all shinobi before him. No one knows if Sandaime prime could own the shinobi that were born after him.

Well here is how it goes. Sandaime Prime barely=Yondaime.
Sandaime doesn't own unless in his prime and even then he is barely an equal to Yondaime.

Oh Itahi still lose to Yondaime, Sandaime(prime) and Jiraiya. just for some fun Sasori owns Itachi.

If I think of anyone else who owns Itachi I'll post them.

Face it people greatest uchiha doesn't beat greatest Hokage.

Yondaime makes 50 kage bushins. Have them all throw kunais and teleport all around Itachi and hit him with jutsus from every angle. Itachi doesn't stand a chance.

Yondaime owns all.

[crocomuse]

If Itachi used amatseru to beat Gamabunta then he's left open for an attack. After he used amatseru to get out of the toad esophogus he was extremely weakened. So even if he beat Gamabunta with amatseru it would just give Yondaime an oppurtunity to kill Itachi and all others.

Ok Jiraiya isn't a 100 times stronger than Orochimaru but he sure as hell could own Oro anyday.

Look it goes like this Jiraiya owns all except Yondaime
Yondaime owns all.
Get it now. Jiraiya owns Orochimaru and Itachi. Yondaime owns Itachi and anyone else who wants to bring it.

Gamabunta is useless in such a fight. Itachi could climb up the Gama and fight Yodaime.

Itachi doesen't fear Jiraiya at all. He dare to perform Tsukuyomi on Sasuke right in front of Jiraiya means he's 100% sure he can escape any of Jiraya's attack after it. So please don't put Jiraiya into this battle.

Itachi's finger genjitsu, which attacked straight towards Naruto's mental weakness(visualize Sasuke, sakura and Gaara's faces), could be equal powerful and efficient as Tsukuyomi. Plus his agility, unknown jutsus, MS attacks......you can't simply say"yondaime owns all|

[durtycheese]

itachi, sharigan owns.

[Kaki]

Well, I'm glad nobody is saying itachi....

[Yellow]

Gamabunta is useless in such a fight. Itachi could climb up the Gama and fight Yodaime.

Itachi doesen't fear Jiraiya at all. He dare to perform Tsukuyomi on Sasuke right in front of Jiraiya means he's 100% sure he can escape any of Jiraya's attack after it. So please don't put Jiraiya into this battle.

Itachi's finger genjitsu, which attacked straight towards Naruto's mental weakness(visualize Sasuke, sakura and Gaara's faces), could be equal powerful and efficient as Tsukuyomi. Plus his agility, unknown jutsus, MS attacks......you can't simply say"yondaime owns all|

How the fuck do you find a fucking 100ft frog useless?:huh
Itachi wasn't sure he could escape any of Jiraiya's attacks. He just had sharkman(kisame) there so that when Jiraiya was ready to pound his ass Kisame could help him get away.
It took both Itachi and Kisame to escape Jiraiya who was slower than both of them so I don't know what the fuck ur talking about when you say Itachi was sure he could escape all of Jiraiya's attacks.
What the fuck is finger genjutsu going to do when there's 50 Yondaime kage bushins around him. Itachi might hit one but the others would own him.

Yes I can say Yondaime owns all.

[Tmb04]

No the rules clearly state Sandaime prime owns all shinobi before him. No one knows if Sandaime prime could own the shinobi that were born after him.

Well here is how it goes. Sandaime Prime barely=Yondaime.
Sandaime doesn't own unless in his prime and even then he is barely an equal to Yondaime.

Oh Itahi still lose to Yondaime, Sandaime(prime) and Jiraiya. just for some fun Sasori owns Itachi.

If I think of anyone else who owns Itachi I'll post them.

Face it people greatest uchiha doesn't beat greatest Hokage.

Yondaime makes 50 kage bushins. Have them all throw kunais and teleport all around Itachi and hit him with jutsus from every angle. Itachi doesn't stand a chance.

Yondaime owns all.

Sandaime was the "God of Shinobi" and also Known as the "Professor" for knowing every single Jutsu in konoha. He was trained by the first and second Hokage and became Hokage himself at the age of 15 or 16. He trained the 3 legendary Sannin who are praised to be The Greatest "Team" ever. He was also planning on making Orochimaru the 4th Hokage over "Yondaime" when he retired, but decided not to because of Orochimaru's "Evil" Ways. Some people could see this as Orochimaru being better than Yondaime. Later In Sandaime's life he defeated the first and second Hokage and also defeated the STRONGEST of the Sannin Orochimaru all while he was like 69 years old.


Come on now, Prime Sarutobi was the best damn Shinobi ever, And would Own Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Itachi and Yondaime 1x1

[Yellow]

Sandaime was the "God of Shinobi" and also Known as the "Professor" for knowing every single Jutsu in konoha. He was trained by the first and second Hokage and became Hokage himself at the age of 15 or 16. He trained the 3 legendary Sannin who are praised to be The Greatest "Team" ever. He was also planning on making Orochimaru the 4th Hokage over "Yondaime" when he retired, but decided not to because of Orochimaru's "Evil" Ways. Some people could see this as Orochimaru being better than Yondaime. Later In Sandaime's life he defeated the first and second Hokage and also defeated the STRONGEST of the Sannin Orochimaru all while he was like 69 years old.


Come on now, Prime Sarutobi was the best damn Shinobi ever, And would Own Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Itachi and Yondaime 1x1

Here we go again. Yondaime was in his 20's when he died. Oro was about 40.
When Oro Sandaime considered Oro Yondaime most likely was still a kid. You can't say Oro was greater than Yondaime because Sarutobi considered him. And no Sarutobi didn't consider Oro over Yondaime. At the point where Sarutobi considered Oro for Hokage Yondaime was too young to be considered Hokage. Get your facts right.

Sandaime Prime can't beat Yondaime. At his best he could only equal Yondaime which is still very good because he is the only shinobi that could possibly equal Yondaime.
Yondaime owns all.

[Tmb04]

Here we go again. Yondaime was in his 20's when he died. Oro was about 40.
When Oro Sandaime considered Oro Yondaime most likely was still a kid. You can't say Oro was greater than Yondaime because Sarutobi considered him. And no Sarutobi didn't consider Oro over Yondaime. At the point where Sarutobi considered Oro for Hokage Yondaime was too young to be considered Hokage. Get your facts right.

Sandaime Prime can't beat Yondaime. At his best he could only equal Yondaime which is still very good because he is the only shinobi that could possibly equal Yondaime.
Yondaime owns all.

There aint no damn age requirment for being hokage..... I dont wanna here that he was too young either and thats the reason why he chose orochimaru. Cuz the fact is that Yondaime was Orochimaru's backup to becoming the 4th. He didnt want Orochimaru anymore so he chose Yondaime. Yondaime wasn't even Hokage when we saw him during the Gaiden yet. Meaning Orochimaru was still the number 1 canidate for becoming Hokage. And that was when Yondaime was like 20 something

[TreeofSephri]

If Itachi used amatseru to beat Gamabunta then he's left open for an attack. After he used amatseru to get out of the toad esophogus he was extremely weakened. So even if he beat Gamabunta with amatseru it would just give Yondaime an oppurtunity to kill Itachi and all others.

Ok Jiraiya isn't a 100 times stronger than Orochimaru but he sure as hell could own Oro anyday.

Look it goes like this Jiraiya owns all except Yondaime
Yondaime owns all.
Get it now. Jiraiya owns Orochimaru and Itachi. Yondaime owns Itachi and anyone else who wants to bring it.

Itachi was extremely weakened because he had used Tsukiyomi twice before he used Amaterasu. Itachi would be fine after using Amaterasu once just like he was fine after he used Tsukiyomi. Oro was easily holding his own against Jiraiya in the Sannin fight and even broke several bones in his body when he slammed him to the ground. He beat him with his tongue. Jiraiya had full use of all his body parts and could use his jutsu to a certain extent but still could not beat Oro. Yondaime owns all in your mind put it like that. No offense Yellowflash but you have all your facts wrong. You are starting to come off as a straight fan boy.

[Yellow]

There aint no damn age requirment for being hokage..... I dont wanna here that he was too young either and thats the reason why he chose orochimaru. Cuz the fact is that Yondaime was Orochimaru's backup to becoming the 4th. He didnt want Orochimaru anymore so he chose Yondaime. Yondaime wasn't even Hokage when we saw him during the Gaiden yet. Meaning Orochimaru was still the number 1 canidate for becoming Hokage. And that was when Yondaime was like 20 something

You have no proof he was 20 something in the Gaiden. You have no proof orochimaru was even around when the in the Gaiden time. In fact we saw Orochimaru leave the village at a very young age so I would say when Oro left the Yondaime was still a kid. Oro was number 1 choice for hokage in his generation but then Yondaime grew up and became way stronger than Oro could ever be. Thats why Yondaime was chosen. Sarutobi wanted someone better than him to replace him thats why he gave the hokage position to Yondaime. So Yondaime is still the greatest.

Here is a poll I recently took:http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=206270
That poll clearly shows Yondaime owns all.smile-big

[TreeofSephri]

You have no proof he was 20 something in the Gaiden. You have no proof orochimaru was even around when the in the Gaiden time. In fact we saw Orochimaru leave the village at a very young age so I would say when Oro left the Yondaime was still a kid. Oro was number 1 choice for hokage in his generation but then Yondaime grew up and became way stronger than Oro could ever be. Thats why Yondaime was chosen. Sarutobi wanted someone better than him to replace him thats why he gave the hokage position to Yondaime. So Yondaime is still the greatest.

Here is a poll I recently took:http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=206270
That poll clearly shows Yondaime owns all.smile-big

Ok Yondaime may have not been in his 20s but he was very young in Kakashi Gaiden. If you even try and refute this then you are delusional pure an simple. Orochimaru left the village because he was passed over as hokage. See Now you are just making up facts. Yondaime was chosen because Sandaime did not trust Oro. You are just depending on fabrication and really just need to stop arguing.

[Tmb04]

You have no proof he was 20 something in the Gaiden. You have no proof orochimaru was even around when the in the Gaiden time. In fact we saw Orochimaru leave the village at a very young age so I would say when Oro left the Yondaime was still a kid. Oro was number 1 choice for hokage in his generation but then Yondaime grew up and became way stronger than Oro could ever be. Thats why Yondaime was chosen. Sarutobi wanted someone better than him to replace him thats why he gave the hokage position to Yondaime. So Yondaime is still the greatest.

Here is a poll I recently took:http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=206270
That poll clearly shows Yondaime owns all.smile-big

Judging by the size difference between a 13 year old Kakashi and him during the Gaiden, I would have to say he was either late Teens or Early 20's. I dont know if he knew Rasengan back then, but he did know the Hirashin. But What proof do you have saying Orochimaru wasnt in the Village during the war? Think about this, Your talking about that they were from different generations and all, thats why Orochimaru was the Number 1 choice, But How old do you think the Sandaime was when he chose the Yondaime? 50? 55? Now your saying Orochimaru was 20 years older than Yondaime right? When Orochimaru was Sandaime's Number 1 choice, How old do you think Sandaime was then? 35? 45? Why in the Hell would he retire being the Hokage when he was So damn young!? Shit, Thats still his prime... He would only retire when he was older, Most likely after the war....

[Yellow]

Ok Yondaime may have not been in his 20s but he was very young in Kakashi Gaiden. If you even try and refute this then you are delusional pure an simple. Orochimaru left the village because he was passed over as hokage. See Now you are just making up facts. Yondaime was chosen because Sandaime did not trust Oro. You are just depending on fabrication and really just need to stop arguing.

Yondaime was young in Kakashi gaiden yes and Oro left the village when he was passed over as hokage are both right.

But nowhere does it say Yondaime was the next choice after Orochimaru. Yondaime was chosen years after Orochimaru left he village so how could he have been Sarutobi's second choice?
It just happened that Yondaime was the first person Sarutobi saw with as the potential to be a better hokage than Oro after Oro left the village.

The poll clearly answers the question of this thread. It shows that the people of Nf say Yondaime is greater than Itachi. It also shows the people of Nf say Yondaime is by far greater than Sandaime(prime).

Now are you going to call the people of Nf wrong?:huh

The answer to the OPs question:http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=206270
Yondaime owns all.

[Elyon]

And no Sarutobi didn't consider Oro over Yondaime. At the point where Sarutobi considered Oro for Hokage Yondaime was too young to be considered Hokage. Get your facts right.

Yes he did. There is no age restriction to becoming Hokage, unless it was filler Sarutobi was chosen when he was a kid. (pretty sure it was filler, just throwing it out there).

Sarutobi (prime) was considered the strongest ninja (GOD of Shinobi). Yondaime was considered the greatest shinobi to ever come out of Konoha, and I agree with that. Was it his power? No. It was because he saved the village from the single greatest threat to the planet.

Oro was going to be chosen, but he was caught with his experiments. Oro was 40 or so when he left the village. How do we know? During thier fight, it's stated somewhere that Sarutobi could've killed Orochimaru ten years ago...when they last met.

If the timeline is correct, that would be around after the Gaiden if not a little before. Either way you spin it, the Yondaime was at least in his late teens during the little fiasco.

Itachi vs the Yondaime? Itachi would win. The Yondaime no doubt had the potential to become the strongest ninja ever (thus surpassing his sensei and his sensei's sensei), but died before the time came. At that level...i'd say Itachi is his equal.

[Tmb04]

Yes he did. There is no age restriction to becoming Hokage, unless it was filler Sarutobi was chosen when he was a kid. (pretty sure it was filler, just throwing it out there).



They might have showed it during the fillers but they also showed it during the manga. Shodai and Nidaime came up to a young Sarutobi and Said he will be Hokage from this Day Forward. And he seemed Young as hell back then.

I also got to agree with the fact that Sandaime was the "Strongest" ever Shinobi while Yondaime was the "Greatest" Shinobi from Konoha. Two completely different things. Greatness and Strength are two different things.:nod

@Elyon, do you have an account set up on the Leafninja forums? I recognize your name from there

[TreeofSephri]

This battle is almost to damn hard for Yondaime. First, he has to know not to look into Itachi's eyes and somehow know that his finger can also cast genjutsu. Itachi would easily figure out Hiraishin if he saw it once that is all he needs is one time. Yondaime could not throw his kunai and teleport because they would not guarantee a kill. It would surprise Itachi no doubt about it but there is no doubt in my mind that Itachi would survive. The minute Itachi sees Hiraishin in action he will probably play it safe and make Yondaime place a tag on one of his explosive bunshins. A Hiraishin ,Rasengan combo is impossible because Hiraishin requires a handseal and he would not have enough time to form the Rasengan. Then there is Gama which could definitely be destroyed by a Amaterasu. Itachi used two high level dohjutsu and would fine and I believe given this information that he would have enough chakra to deal with Yondaime. Then we take into account Itachi's seal speed something that Kakashi's sharingan could not even keep up with. Yondaime would constantly be on his toes. This would of course be a close match but I think Itachi would take this in the end.

[Yellow]

Yes he did. There is no age restriction to becoming Hokage, unless it was filler Sarutobi was chosen when he was a kid. (pretty sure it was filler, just throwing it out there).

Sarutobi (prime) was considered the strongest ninja (GOD of Shinobi). Yondaime was considered the greatest shinobi to ever come out of Konoha, and I agree with that. Was it his power? No. It was because he saved the village from the single greatest threat to the planet.

Oro was going to be chosen, but he was caught with his experiments. Oro was 40 or so when he left the village. How do we know? During thier fight, it's stated somewhere that Sarutobi could've killed Orochimaru ten years ago...when they last met.

If the timeline is correct, that would be around after the Gaiden if not a little before. Either way you spin it, the Yondaime was at least in his late teens during the little fiasco.

Itachi vs the Yondaime? Itachi would win. The Yondaime no doubt had the potential to become the strongest ninja ever (thus surpassing his sensei and his sensei's sensei), but died before the time came. At that level...i'd say Itachi is his equal.

I'm sure the kyuubi attack was twelve years ago. So if Oro left ten years ago then your saying Oro left two years after Yondaime died. That would mean Oro didn't leave because he got turned down to be hokage. It would also mean Yondaime was chosen over Orochimaru.
Somehow I'm sure you made a mistake somewhere there.

Yondaime owns all. The polls don't lie. The people of Nf are always right:http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=206270

[TWF]

I'm sure the kyuubi attack was twelve years ago. So if Oro left ten years ago then your saying Oro left two years after Yondaime died. That would mean Oro didn't leave because he got turned down to be hokage. It would also mean Yondaime was chosen over Orochimaru.
Somehow I'm sure you made a mistake somewhere there.

Yondaime owns all. The polls don't lie. The people of Nf are always right:http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=206270

Sarutobi became the next Hokage after Nidaime appointed him as his successor at the age of 16, what 6 or 7 years minimum before Yondaime became a Hokage.

Go look it up in the databook.

[TreeofSephri]

Collective Opinion especially if those opinions belong to fanboys does not equal truth. You have been presented with overwhelming fact and still cling on to your poorly supported,flimsy position. This is the very definition of fanboyism.

[Elyon]

@Elyon, do you have an account set up on the Leafninja forums? I recognize your name from there
Likewise. I'm the Elyon from there ^^

I'm sure the kyuubi attack was twelve years ago. So if Oro left ten years ago then your saying Oro left two years after Yondaime died. That would mean Oro didn't leave because he got turned down to be hokage. It would also mean Yondaime was chosen over Orochimaru.
Somehow I'm sure you made a mistake somewhere there.
Twelve years ago when that was stated, yes.

Orochimaru didn't leave because he was denied the Hokage position. At what point does orochimaru express any sorrow or anger at being denied the position? Like, at all? When does he even mention it? Orochimaru was forced to leave.

The Yondaime was chosen over Orochimaru solely because of Orochimaru's immoral experimentation. Otherwise, we'd have a white-skinned snake as the 4th and the Yellow Flash as a regular Jounin.

Sarutobi became the next Hokage after Nidaime appointed him as his successor at the age of 16, what 6 or 7 years minimum before Yondaime became a Hokage.

Go look it up in the databook.
The Databook says nothing about his age as the Hokage.

[Yellow]

Sarutobi became the next Hokage after Nidaime appointed him as his successor at the age of 16, what 6 or 7 years minimum before Yondaime became a Hokage.

Go look it up in the databook.

ummm.....ok.:huh Thanks for telling me something I already knew. What does this have to do with Yondaime beating Itachi or even beating Sandaime?:huh

Yondaime owns all. The polls don't lie. The people of Nf are always right:http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=206270

[TWF]

ummm.....ok.:huh Thanks for telling me something I already knew. What does this have to do with Yondaime beating Itachi or even beating Sandaime?:huh

Yondaime owns all. The polls don't lie. The people of Nf are always right:http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=206270

Why would I give a fuck about your poll?

[ameterasu_41]

There is also no proof to support the fact that he was fast. People tend to think that he was called the Yellow Flash because of his speed. This is untrue. Also if there is no proof that he is fast or wasn't fast then why are we using it in a debate.
Itachi is not afraid of Jiraiya he does however admit that he is not strong enough to fight him. Yondaime surpassed Jiraiya so you cannot use the argument A>B>C. How can that Yondaime would not get caught in TS. He does not know about Mangekyou Sharingan and all it takes is a glance into those eyes and he is trapped. Yondaime did not have to immobilze Kyuubi because Kyuubi was standing there waving his tails around. Kyuubi had no idea what Yondaime was doing; he could have easily moved if he wanted too. Pertaining to Gama, Itachi's Amaterasu could take care of him. After all it was strong enough to burn through Imagawa, a fire breathing toad, esophagus.

Kakashi Gaiden proves Yondaime was fast. However, Itachi never admits that he couldn't fight Jiraiya. He's talking about Naruto, not Jiraiya, when he says they'd be killed. In the manga it's even more obvious.

I don't think speed would be the deciding factor here.

[TreeofSephri]

Kakashi Gaiden proves Yondaime was fast. However, Itachi never admits that he couldn't fight Jiraiya. He's talking about Naruto, not Jiraiya, when he says they'd be killed. In the manga it's even more obvious.

I don't think speed would be the deciding factor here.

No it doesn't. If you are referring to Yondaime rescuing Kakashi he clearly placed a tag on Kakashi before he used chidori. Didn't you notice the summoning smoke in that particular panel?

[Yellow]

Kakashi Gaiden proves Yondaime was fast. However, Itachi never admits that he couldn't fight Jiraiya. He's talking about Naruto, not Jiraiya, when he says they'd be killed. In the manga it's even more obvious.

I don't think speed would be the deciding factor here.

Ok here is the manga page your talking about:http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/rvolume16.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=33330

Kisame says both of them couldn't face Jiraiya. They would lose. Itachi says all strong men have a weakness. I have no proof of this but that weakness he is talking about is most likely women. He is confirming what Kisame said but also saying Jiraiya has a weakness we know is women.

Why would I give a fuck about your poll?

Because my poll proves Yondaime is stronger than Itachi.

Yondaime owns all the polls don't lie:http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=206270

*Edit: TreeofSephri I'll try to find the panel your talking about.

*Edit:I think this is the panel you're talking about:http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/vol27.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=13458

That looks more like chidori forming than summoning smoke and there is a panel with Kakashi's hand and I don't see a tag.
If that isn't he panel your're talking about then post a link to the one your talking about please.