Berserk Discussion Thread

[Segan]

Am I the only one who thinks Gutts is going to end up dead in his Berserker armor? He needs to transcend his humanity before he can stand a decent change against a deity like a God Hand.
That was discussed here quite a while age, I believe. And yes, chances are that Guts is gonna die. With or without the armor. He's one tough motherfucker, but he's still just a human. And human means, he's mortal. Vulnerable.

On the Berserk Amor, you know a lot more than I do, but making Gutts go as far as trying to rape Caska can't mean it's very good for him. Yes, I used wikipedia, I probably should wait 'til I get them volumes though, but the bloody game spoiled it for me, at first I thought I was looking at Griffith.
Mind you, it has nothing to do with the armor. But he did come close to try and rape Casca, but at that time he couldn't think straight. Luckily he realized soon enough what was about to happen. It's the only reason why he let the current party travel along with him.

Although the Berserker Armor is really dangerous to the party, however it's necessary and without it they would all be long dead. It's not all bad though Schierke can draw him back from the brink although it's risky to do so.

Anywho, wouldn't say Berserk is the "best" seinen manga currently, there are other amazing ones, such as Vagabond.

Vagabond? Sorry, it's good, but not as good as Berserk. Especially not when the author is basically only following a novel and uses artistic license to add his own scenes.
And the fights...meh.

The novel itself is great, though.

[MdB]

Well most of the Apostles and some of the Godhand already seem to consider Guts on a level above mere humanity. But yeah, the armor is breaking him down slowly.

I think when he gets to close to being able to defeat the Godhand the Behelit will give him the option of becoming something on par with them or even one of them in return for sacrifice. Depending on how far the armor has taken over he might actually give in if he was given the choice. Or at least that's what I suspect will happen. Otherwise I can't actually see a legitimate way for him to get on Godhand level.

As far as I remember, not a single Apostle considered him above human nature (Let alone a God Hand member). There just amazed how he keeps struggling against causality and fate/destiny. Griffith's reincarnation as a human showed why Gutts is still a human that can't change the relationship between events that The Idea Of Evil set in stone.

As for the Behelit, I dunno really.... It is still the powers of The God Hand that grant the bearer there wishes. And the Crimson Behelit is the only Behelit that could give him equal powers as Griffith (If every God Hand member is equal in strength and power of course). But than again, I can't remember if Gatts Behelit was fated to meet him or he keeps it with him for no reason.

[Segan]

Per definition, the behelith isn't meant for Guts in any way. But keeping it with him might give him the chance to take Griffith and the rest of the God Hand down. His encounter with Slann gave me the thought that Miura isn't just letting Guts keep that little egg for nothing.

And who knows, Slann might even give him a hand?

[Voynich]

As far as I remember, not a single Apostle consider him above human nature (Let alone a God Hand member). There just amazed how he keeps struggling against causality and fate/destiny. Griffith's reincarnation as a human showed why Gutts is still a human that can't change the relationship between events that The Idea Of Evil set in stone.

As for the Behelit, I dunno really.... It is still the powers of The God Hand that grant the bearer there wishes. And the Crimson Behelit is the only Behelit that could give him equal powers as Griffith (If every God Hand member is equal in strength and power of course). But than again, I can't remember if Gatts Behelit was fated to meet him or he keeps it with him for no reason.

Well that's what I meant. It just came out a bit wrong. (At 10 in the evening I really lose my coherency in English xDD) Maybe not above human, but at least impressed with him actually surviving sofar. I do remember the question "Is he human?" being raised a few times.

Yeah, but you don't know yet what kind of threat Guts may become to them later. And they certainly do enjoy playing with him. So who knows, maybe offering him something like that is in their best interest some time from now.

I can't remember about the Behelit either actually. Didn't he pick it up very early on from that deformed old man in...volume 1 was it? He never tried losing it, so it's really unsure if it's supposed to be his or not. I doubt he could lose it if he tried to cause Puck clings on to it all the time.:laugh

[MdB]

Per definition, the behelith isn't meant for Guts in any way. But keeping it with him might give him the chance to take Griffith and the rest of the God Hand down. His encounter with Slann gave me the thought that Miura isn't just letting Guts keep that little egg for nothing.

And who knows, Slann might even give him a hand?

I never thought of a possible way for Slan to help Gutts. Right now I'm even more curious about her, just what the hell does she want from Gutts?

[AbnormallyNormal]

yeah slann is definitely abnormally interested in guts, she seems the most likely candidate for a godhand ally if such a thing is even possible

[Lusankya]

I honestly cannot(and do not wish to) see Gutts accepting any help from the Godhands or even becoming one of them just so he can take out Griffith. What makes this story so compelling(at least for me) so far is the fact that a mere mortal is fighting fate and impossible odds with sheer rage and willpower. IMO, Gutts becoming a Godhand will destroy the very essence and foundation of the story which have been build thus far.
Though i have to concede, as things are, Gutts is no closer to getting his revenge. Even with that armor, there is no guarantee that he could beat one of Griffith's Apostles. I'm guessing that whats-his-name fairy king will prove to be very important in the scheme of things, not just with healing Caska.

[AbnormallyNormal]

well of course gutts will never become a godhand.... that would first of all be impossible without the scarlet behelit and secondly i think the eclipse only happens every few centuries. he'll probably become the "next skull knight"

[Elijah Snow]

^I can see that, but I honestly don't know how I would feel about that.

[Segan]

Guts doesn't actually need to accept Slann as an ally. It would be more like a temporary truce that is finished as soon as Griffith is down for good.

It's also questionable that the current party will follow Guts if he ever decides to keep his path of revenge after Casca is in the safety zone. He would then run out of options and allies which could make him susceptible for teaming up with enemies in order to throw down Griffith.
Slann was one possible ally I mentioned, but it's really unlikely it's gonna happen, considering he isn't gonna think straight once he encounters her and besides, he's too straightforward to double-cross Slann in order to get what he wants.

But Ganishka is another possibility. Guts refused to team up with him, but at that time he had much more important business. If Casca is at Skelling and out of danger zone, then chances are that Guts is gonna make some kind of deal with Ganishka. After all, Griffith is gonna show up in Windham, which happens to be in Ganishka's hands, and Guts would have the chance to prepare a strategy, whatever it is.

But that's just mindgames.

[AbnormallyNormal]

i think ganishka is dead .... griffith could probably have taken him out already but he wanted to meet with the nobles etc first. besides guts already declined ganishka's offer. i think zodd is a possible ally of guts.

[Segan]

i think ganishka is dead .... griffith could probably have taken him out already but he wanted to meet with the nobles etc first. besides guts already declined ganishka's offer. i think zodd is a possible ally of guts.

Impossible. And you should know why. He has shown that he values loyalty way over respect.

[AbnormallyNormal]

i dunno, i feel like they're setting zodd up as sort of a perennial character, he seems the most likely apostle to help guts. sonia said he had "the most depth" or something like that of the apostles, also he threw his sword to help guts vs the chuder knight, and he impaled that monkey motherfucker to help guts. basically he's guts ally as it is, he and guts teamed up physically vs ganishka already. something will happen so that zodd will be comfortable betraying griffith i believe

[Lusankya]

i dunno, i feel like they're setting zodd up as sort of a perennial character, he seems the most likely apostle to help guts. sonia said he had "the most depth" or something like that of the apostles, also he threw his sword to help guts vs the chuder knight, and he impaled that monkey motherfucker to help guts. basically he's guts ally as it is, he and guts teamed up physically vs ganishka already. something will happen so that zodd will be comfortable betraying griffith i believe

Not gonna happen. Zodd lost to Griffith(in a dream) and swore eternal loyalty to him.

[Segan]

he threw his sword to help guts vs the chuder knight,
Griffith would've been fucked up if Guts died here. No way he would've stood a chance against Boscogne. Of course Zodd was gonna help Guts.
and he impaled that monkey motherfucker to help guts.
It seems you didn't notice that Wyald was holding Griffith as a hostage back then?
basically he's guts ally as it is, he and guts teamed up physically vs ganishka already.
And just a few moments later Zodd announces that he would tear Guts a new asshole if he were to go up against Griffith.
something will happen so that zodd will be comfortable betraying griffith i believe
Like I said, not a chance.

[Mat®icha]

i really wonder what happened to gutt's child. a round thing ate it and the child stopped appeareng from that moment. any1 has any idea?

[AbnormallyNormal]

isnt that black haired kid who they met and played around with guts and casca's kid? thats what it seemed to me

[Mat®icha]

yeah, seemed like it (totally forgot bout him). but still no trace of him, and wasnt confirmed to be the one. still so many thing to be resolved.

[Muk]

I can only see Gutts teaming up with the skull knight

anything else would be his enemies

i believe his whole moral is to not use the power of the behelit

but he needs to find another way to become what griffon is a being outside of fate or idea of evil before he can even think about touching griffon.

will be interesting to see how he'll achieve that

[AbnormallyNormal]

i dont get wtf skull knight does all the time.... guts is out there busting his ass fighting huge demons and where is skull knight???? if skull knight actually tried the story would be over by now, that dude is invincible

[Shikashi]

Badass too, but good question, he seems to just pop outta nowhere and tell weird stuff to Gutts, he sounds kinda like a Prophet of some sorts.

[Moridin]

Skull Knight is out there busting demons too, but if we followed him around to see that we wouldn't be with Gutts =p

[MdB]

Just 2 more days.

[Segan]

Just 2 more days.

I doubt you are getting it in two days. It will be released in Japan in two days. At the very best you get the raw in three days. But it's more likely that it comes end of this week or somewhere during next week.

[Spike]

I've read up to volume 8 and now I'm wondering if I can find the remaining volumes somewhere?

[G@R-chan]

I've read up to volume 8 and now I'm wondering if I can find the remaining volumes somewhere?

If you don't mind using torrents. Click here (http://www.thehawks.org/hawks/bt/index.php?dir=.%2FBerserk)
This is where I got my berserk scans.

[MdB]

I doubt you are getting it in two days. It will be released in Japan in two days. At the very best you get the raw in three days. But it's more likely that it comes end of this week or somewhere during next week.

It's not the first time when the RAW has been uploaded on the same day when the actual chapter is published.

[Segan]

It's not the first time when the RAW has been uploaded on the same day when the actual chapter is published.

True, but as far as I remember, it hasn't happened with Berserk. But we'll see.

[MdB]

True, but as far as I remember, it hasn't happened with Berserk. But we'll see.

I was talking about Berserk.

I can still remember downloading the RAW on friday. Though it doesn't happen all the time.

[Elijah Snow]

Im hoping it comes out this weekend, but if not I can wait.

[Sess]

Yeah I'm really against the idea of Gutts teaming up with any demons or apostles. The thing with Zodd was totally spur of the moment. Under any other circumstances, those two would be going at it big time.

As for Slann, I think you guys are reading too much into it. Don't take offense to this please, but her behavior is that of the typical bitch. She tries to keep her true intentions secret. She keeps you off guard. She uses her looks and mannerisms to confuse you. That's what she's doing to Gutts. There is no big secret plan she has in store. She has no intentions of helping him. She's just a bitch and loves torturing Gutts, even if it's just psychological.

[Segan]

@Sess: Who the heck, aside from you, talked about a secret plan of Slann? Hmm? :wink

[AbnormallyNormal]

i am pretty sure that when casca's memories are restored she wont be 100% happy and just want to be with guts. my guess is that black haired kid is their son and she'll want to raise him somewhere peacefully while guts will still be consumed with hate and vengeance against griffith, just like how skull knight said the woman doesnt want necessarily what guts wants

[Zephos]

i am pretty sure that when casca's memories are restored she wont be 100% happy and just want to be with guts. my guess is that black haired kid is their son and she'll want to raise him somewhere peacefully while guts will still be consumed with hate and vengeance against griffith, just like how skull knight said the woman doesnt want necessarily what guts wants

Skull Knight was referring to bringing her memory back being perhaps not what she wants.

[AbnormallyNormal]

hmm thats possible too although in a way how can you choose not to want your memories, that seems like something that you either have or dont and you cant really "choose" about it

[Segan]

hmm thats possible too although in a way how can you choose not to want your memories, that seems like something that you either have or dont and you cant really "choose" about it

Really? Think again. Think hard.

Did it occur to you even once that Casca (unconscously) decided to become insane? In order to forget her memories, because they are way too painful to bear?

[AbnormallyNormal]

Really? Think again. Think hard.

Did it occur to you even once that Casca (unconscously) decided to become insane? In order to forget her memories, because they are way too painful to bear?

i dont believe in unconscious decisions much less decisions to forget your memories in such a total way....

[Shikashi]

I thought she only had one kid... that deformed thing that Gutts was trying to kill. I know about the one that appeared in the sea and someone looked at them and said "They look like a real family" or something, but I never saw stated that it was their son.

Anyway, Segan might be right, but that would be shitty, she's like a child know, can't even speak. Do you think Gutts can go on like that?

[yo586]

i dont believe in unconscious decisions much less decisions to forget your memories in such a total way....

maybe you need to learn an ounce about psychology before you make statements like this.

that being said, I believe the skull night was talking about her wishes once she gets back her memories as well (in regards to revenge, etc).

[Segan]

i dont believe in unconscious decisions much less decisions to forget your memories in such a total way....

You don't need to believe. It's fact. What I said wasn't a suggestion, but my way to get my point through you. Memory loss doesn't come out of nowhere. Such things do happen in real life.

[AbnormallyNormal]

well you say its fact but i dont agree. what makes you think that? i dont think you can choose to forget things. i have tried before its not possible. if you are extremely traumatized you may suffer AMNESIA which is what happened to casca. not at all the same thing as a deliberate decision.

[Segan]

Well, ok, it was a bit too much saying it's a fact. But it's pretty much set in stone for me since Skull Knight pointed out that it might not be Casca's wish to recover her memory.

[Elijah Snow]

I really don't think she would like to recover memories from that horrible day. I mean what do you think her first reaction would be to remember everything from that day.

[Shikashi]

So... what? Gutts is going through Hell to give her those memories back and now he'll stop? It's not like she's gonna be able to say she doesn't want them, she can't express herself. The only way I see that not happening is if the guy can't restore her memory.

[Sess]

Responses
Segan: Someone was talking about Slann possibly having plans separate from (or directly conflicting with) the rest of the godhand as an explanation for why she's so interested in Gutts.

Memories
It's not uncommon for people to regress in response to great trauma. It just happens sometimes. Arguing against that phenomenon is like arguing against gravity. Sure, aside from looking at the results (things fall), there isn't any way to prove how/why gravity works, but all sane people know that it does. Same with memory loss/regression, can't prove how it works, but the well documented results speak for themselves.

Baby Daddy
I've never totally understood the deal with the babies. Ok, so Casca births some funky looking mass of disfigured tissue that happens to have eyes. Ok, who's the dad? Gutts? Griffith? We know this how? And the one later at the beach. Was that the same one, but a little older? And who's the dad? Gutts? Griffith? And we know this how? Sometimes I read information in this thread and I have no idea where it came from. Either I've missed some really important details, several times (since I've read through all the manga several times), or you guys are making some big presumptions and presenting them as facts. Could someone clear this up for me, please?

[G@R-chan]

Responses

Memories
It's not uncommon for people to regress in response to great trauma. It just happens sometimes. Arguing against that phenomenon is like arguing against gravity. Sure, aside from looking at the results (things fall), there isn't any way to prove how/why gravity works, but all sane people know that it does. Same with memory loss/regression, can't prove how it works, but the well documented results speak for themselves.

I don't know how you interprete Skull Knight's speech about Casca's recovering her memories, but my assumption is he advised Gutts not to have high expectations of how things will turn when she recovers her memories. I think he wasn't arguing about what Casca really wants but what Gutts really wants and has to be prepared for desillusion.


Baby Daddy
I've never totally understood the deal with the babies. Ok, so Casca births some funky looking mass of disfigured tissue that happens to have eyes. Ok, who's the dad? Gutts? Griffith? We know this how? And the one later at the beach. Was that the same one, but a little older? And who's the dad? Gutts? Griffith? And we know this how? Sometimes I read information in this thread and I have no idea where it came from. Either I've missed some really important details, several times (since I've read through all the manga several times), or you guys are making some big presumptions and presenting them as facts. Could someone clear this up for me, please?

We don't know for sure who's the daddy, but my prediction is Gutts is the father and Griffith "corrupted" the embryon to be his vessel when he should reincarnate in the real world. If someone has some precisions, I'm interested too about this point.

[Shikashi]

We don't know for sure who's the daddy, but my prediction is Gutts is the father and Griffith "corrupted" the embryon to be his vessel when he should reincarnate in the real world. If someone has some precisions, I'm interested too about this point.

That's definitely very plausible, good one. I have no idea what he would use the kid for though, maybe to break Gutts down or something like that.

[AbnormallyNormal]

its explicitly stated in the manga gutts is the father but griffith/femto corrupted the foetus and made it evil. and its highly probable that black haired child is their son. HIGHLY probable.

[Segan]

What LackingLack said. Guts was the father but Femto corrupted it and used it as his flesh host for the rebirth into the real world.

[Zephos]

Responses
Segan: Someone was talking about Slann possibly having plans separate from (or directly conflicting with) the rest of the godhand as an explanation for why she's so interested in Gutts.


She's horny about him.
End of discussion.
Who was speculating otherwise?:huh

[Elijah Snow]

^Don't you think that sort of behavior would be selling Miura a little short?

[yo586]

What I want to know is. . . if griffith used its flesh as a host who/what was the kid at the beach? Seems like one is the flesh of the baby that never grew up and the other is the kid in spirit who did grow up . . . but for a bit the spirit kid turned real? Its the only thing about the story that consistently confused me as well.

Plus, Slann likes Gutts cause she gets off on extremes of emotion, and thus loves how much he struggles and his extreme rage and glimmer of hope. She said "It'd be great to have him on our side," or something to that effect (so she has taken to him a bit), but for now she seems content watching and playing with him. Damn woman.

[AbnormallyNormal]

i cant wait til we see that black haired beach kid again, i bet he's extremely good at fighting (or maybe just psychic fighting)

[Shikashi]

its explicitly stated in the manga gutts is the father but griffith/femto corrupted the foetus and made it evil. and its highly probable that black haired child is their son. HIGHLY probable.
What the fu... where?

[G@R-chan]

I don't remember when it was explicitly stated????
There's still people that didn't clearly see that Guts is the father. Even Guts himself seems to believe he's Griffith's son.
The only thing we have is hint, when devil baby is watching over Guts in the darkness. But nobody clearly states, "Guts you're the daddy" *eye candy*. I even doubt Caska knows who's the father, the only ones that could know are Griffith or the child.
Well if it was stated, just tell me where to look but for the moment it's just all speculation (certainly right speculation though).

[Shikashi]

I don't remember when it was explicitly stated????
There's still people that didn't clearly see that Guts is the father. Even Guts himself seems to believe he's Griffith's son.
The only thing we have is hint, when devil baby is watching over Guts in the darkness. But nobody clearly states, "Guts you're the daddy" *eye candy*. I even doubt Caska knows who's the father, the only ones that could know are Griffith or the child.
Well if it was stated, just show me the pages and I would shut my mouth, but for the moment it's just all speculation (certainly right speculation though).
How would the child know that? When I was born I didn't know who my father was, I was taught that, just like you. Only Griffith knows and maybe Casca, but like I said, Griffith will probably use the child to take advantage of Gutts and/or break him down.

[G@R-chan]

Don't know how the child would know, but his affection towards Guts clearly hints he knows something. Maybe his instincts tell him who's his father, I guess.

[Lusankya]

What the fu... where?

I dont remember which chapter, but i've read it as well, though only the part where Femto corrupted the foetus, not the one where Gutts is the black-haired kid's father.

[Shikashi]

I have 'til chapter 288, I don't think I'm missing anything. The only reference I can come up with is when the child falls and Gutts and Casca grab him and stay close together on the floor, nothing else.

[Shikashi]

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7688/berserkv28c238p053copymg6.th.jpg (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserkv28c238p053copymg6.jpg)

Closest I've got as far as the kid's being Gutts and Caska's goes.

[G@R-chan]

I just read chapter 92 and well I misread the first time what the skull knight was talking about but he apparently confirmed Guts is the father, and the child was forced to accept the evil to survive. At least, it's clear now.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1039/berserkv14c92p016copyfm5.th.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserkv14c92p016copyfm5.jpg)

[Shikashi]

I blame the font used for Demons/Devil Kings/Skull Night, it's hard to read, just use the same as for the other characters. It looks better and shit, but makes you dizzy when you try to understand the words.

[Segan]

It's only speculation that the black-haired child is Guts' and Casca's. But it's confirmed that the demon fetus was indeed Guts' child.

Don't misunderstand it.

[Elijah Snow]

Segan's got a point. The demon fetus is Gutts and Casca's child. The dark haired kid has a high chance of being their kid, but no one is sure at this moment.

[Shikashi]

I don't get how the heck did the deformed thing turn into that Casca looking kid...

[Elijah Snow]

Demons can control their appearance. And it's still partially human.

[Muk]

I don't get how the heck did the deformed thing turn into that Casca looking kid...

during the second eclipse it must have evolved into something more human or perfect as it was at the verge of death just like the black hawk was very weak

[Sess]

Plus, Slann likes Gutts cause she gets off on extremes of emotion, and thus loves how much he struggles and his extreme rage and glimmer of hope. She said "It'd be great to have him on our side," or something to that effect (so she has taken to him a bit), but for now she seems content watching and playing with him. Damn woman.Like I said. She's a bitch. That's exactly what bitches do!! smile-big

Guts was the father but Femto corrupted it and used it as his flesh host for the rebirth into the real world.Okay I sorta remember that now. The fugly kid was at the castle and the Skull Knight sorta confronted it. There was another eclipse and that's when Griffith reentered the world. So at that point, wouldn't the fugly kid have been destroyed, since it was used for Griffith's rebirth? Maybe that's where the normal kid came from. Griffith's rebirth used up the evil essences that were in the fugly kid, leaving the normal kid behind. Could it be something like that? Do I even have my timeline right?

If that is the case, then that's great news! Casca and Gutt's kid was cleansed of the evil. And hey! Wouldn't that be a good way to help Casca recover if she were to get her memories back? Sure, she would be disturbed by everything bad that happened, but at least she has her kid back, ya know?

[Segan]

A second confirmation (sorf of) is the battle on the hill of the swords, when Griffith realizes that his heart pulse went faster as he saw Guts struggle against Zodd and stated that this was probably because it was the body of the original child. Gotta look for the specific page to remember the exact line.

And don't act like it's confirmed that the black-haired child is Guts' and Casca's. After all, the original body of their child is used by Griffith right now.

And Casca's reaction to Griffith was totally different from when she met the child. When it came to Griffith she reacted exactly like two years back then when she gave birth to the demon child.
With the black-haired one it was different.

[Mat®icha]

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7688/berserkv28c238p053copymg6.th.jpg (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserkv28c238p053copymg6.jpg)

Closest I've got as far as the kid's being Gutts and Caska's goes.

kid definitely got casca's eyes.

[Segan]

289 RAW
http://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/f1yirz

The last pages were the best...Guts really harbors something dangerous inside him.

[Mat®icha]

:omg it's out :woo
thanx Segan.

[G@R-chan]

The most important information is next chapter will be released on september 28th :ruri (two weeks)
The last pages were interesting.

[Zephos]

^Don't you think that sort of behavior would be selling Miura a little short?

Her vice as a Godhand is lust, its just her being in character.
She's never shown any kindness to him. All her sexual advances (which is all its been) are pretty sinister, near rape in the troll cave even.
She's freely expressed this interest in front of the other members to boot.
I honestly have no idea why people would assume she has alternative anti-Gohand plans, its just ridiculous.

[Shikashi]

Goddamn Evil_Genius, hurry up with the scanlation already!

A second confirmation (sorf of) is the battle on the hill of the swords, when Griffith realizes that his heart pulse went faster as he saw Guts struggle against Zodd and stated that this was probably because it was the body of the original child. Gotta look for the specific page to remember the exact line.
So Femto raped Casca in order to rebirth... erm... himself? I won't even begin to tell you how fucked up that is.

[Voynich]

So Femto raped Casca in order to rebirth... erm... himself? I won't even begin to tell you how fucked up that is.

...it's Berserk we're talking about here :oh It almost sounds plausible.

[Dream Brother]

Cheers for the raw, Segan.

Those last few pages were lovely -- now to wait for the translation.

[SigbinPuti™]

didn't the fetus became griffiths body since the egg took it in i doubt it spit it out. griffith even said that it was the vessel which he took.

[Segan]

didn't the fetus became griffiths body since the egg took it in i doubt it spit it out. griffith even said that it was the vessel which he took.

That's right.

[AbnormallyNormal]

when will scans be on onemanga.com you think?

[Segan]

Pretty soon after EG released the scans, I assume. Might be a few hours to a day.

[Moridin]

berserk 289 scanlation [frankyhouse]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YBS3L170

[Segan]

berserk 289 scanlation [frankyhouse]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YBS3L170

You kidding, right? o_0

[Moridin]

no, I'm not.

[Segan]

Still, just one day after the release it's already scanned. The usual pace isn't that fast...looks like the guys at EG had some free time.

Thanks. :)

[Moridin]

its a frankyhouse scanlation (hence the [frankyhouse]), EG haven't released yet.

FH are predominantly a speedscan group but the quality is pretty good and it reads nicely.

[Segan]

So that's it. I thought, frankyhouse just provided the scan.

[ladiida]

Are they on the boat yet? I stopped for a few months to have more reading material.

[Segan]

Are they on the boat yet? I stopped for a few months to have more reading material.

Look it up for yourself. Unless you want to get explicitly spoiled. And at which chapter did you stop?

[Haruko]

The chapter wasn't overly interesting. Roderick is good at sea and stuff but the entire chapter was just a rape of the pirates. The only interesting bit was Gutts' demon being "unshackled"

[Segan]

The chapter wasn't overly interesting. Roderick is good at sea and stuff but the entire chapter was just a rape of the pirates. The only interesting bit was Gutts' demon being "unshackled"

Complaining is not allowed. The word "uninteresting" is forbidden to use. Blasphemer!

:P


But seriously, I don't like to see the same pattern in this thread like it happens everywhere. Deliberately waiting for every single chapter just to say: "That's what I waited for? Not interesting at all. This wasn't so good, that's wasn't better either..etc"

Berserk had chapters like these and with less development throughout the whole series.

[Haruko]

Fair enough. This is the frst time I had to wait for Berserk, before I read it in a big chunk.

[Yakuza]

chapter out...
hallelujah

[Freija]

someone pm me in 2 years when they reach the island :wtf

[Yakuza]

someone pm me in 2 years when they reach the island :wtf

lol..... its truth though :pek

[Freija]

i weren't joking :sag like they've been going towards the island for 8 real years or so

[Yakuza]

hah... Ive been following berserk for almost 11 years.... and danm it does go slow at times, especiallly this years with the 3 monthly breaks we are having :lmao

[Freija]

kratos must be old :3



/followed SDK through all 7 years

[Yakuza]

kratos must be old :3

im not that old.... im actully young.. only 20...
its because my cousing used to buy the manga so id go to his house and read it...

[Freija]

me and SDK started out that way

[Yakuza]

lol...
yeah, i just seen a picture of the berserk armour on the new chapter

:cry
so beautiful

[Freija]

i haven't read berserk, since like Griffith ownd the emperor

[Yakuza]

i haven't read berserk, since like Griffith ownd the emperor

:lmao

get reading then... theres a long way to go :pek
and never forget Uchiha Poppins :pek

[Freija]

YOU BASTARD YOU CHANGED YOUR NICK TO KRATOS!!!!!!!! :yell I WONDERED WHERE YOU DISAPPEARED! and no i wont read until they get to elf paradise :mad


also you featured in my blenderfanfic

[Yakuza]

YOU BASTARD YOU CHANGED YOUR NICK TO KRATOS!!!!!!!! :yell I WONDERED WHERE YOU DISAPPEARED! and no i wont read until they get to elf paradise :mad
i told you about my name change on the blender long ago...
you werent paying attention.. :pek
and why you rep b& ?? :lmao

staying on topic, well, the elf paradise is really taking long... ive been waiting for it for almost year


also you featured in my blenderfanfic
:awesome gonna read it now!!!

[Segan]

It's not all that long since Griffith and the Emperor. It's only five or six chapters ago since then.

[Freija]

im never paying attention, duh and peK was feeling nice one day and gave me a month rep ban :sag



as for elf paradise, ive been waiting for it for 3? years

[Yakuza]

It's not all that long since Griffith and the Emperor. It's only five or six chapters ago since then.
lol segan, the past 6 chapters took like 1 year to come along :lmao
im never paying attention, duh and peK was feeling nice one day and gave me a month rep ban :sag
as for elf paradise, ive been waiting for it for 3? years

lol, PeK gave me that stupid infraction and refused to delete it for 2 months :pek
and elf paradise will be good... i think at least the graphical aspect will be amazing...

[Freija]

it better be, and i want the little fairy of win puck to have some important title over there, he seems to play so stupid about everything

[Yakuza]

Puk will turn out to be someone important... like, he was banished from the fairy land...

thats what i want anyway :pek

[Freija]

Puck is my love in the manga...and sloth

[Yakuza]

lol... Puck is a God Hand, we just dont know it yet

[Freija]

Puck is God

[Yakuza]

Puck is God

:del

indeed Puck is

[Freija]

but if puck were to show his power the story would've ended in vol 1 :sag

[Totitos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUhL416sgu0

[Haruko]

lol I've been reading Berserk for 4 weeks or something. All those years, and I've read it twice in 4 weeks.

[Yakuza]

but if puck were to show his power the story would've ended in vol 1 :sag
thats why he made us wait 11 years to reveal the power :lmao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUhL416sgu0

thhank you

[Freija]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUhL416sgu0
Wonders at your feet?
lol I've been reading Berserk for 4 weeks or something. All those years, and I've read it twice in 4 weeks.
lol. only twice :mad blasphemy
thats why he made us wait 11 years to reveal the power :lmao


thhank youexactly :yell

[Yakuza]

lol Haruko, i think I read berserk over 10 times in the past few years :lmao

[Freija]

SDK read over 50 times possibly :sag

[Totitos]

@Freija
yes.

I need to catch up with the current.

[Yakuza]

SDK read over 50 times possibly :sag
:nuts NUTZZZZZZZZ

and danm, the new chap I downloaded is fake :pek

[Totitos]

whut??????????

[Freija]

lol i've prob read it more than that, and the manga finished last year :sag and i've read HxH alittle less times than that, then on third place Berserk and One Piece

[Yakuza]

lol, Ive watched GunGrave 4 times over the past 2 months :lmao

[Freija]

lol anime .

[Yakuza]

we are spamming now :mad

lets get back to beserk...

Puck > God Hands

[Totitos]

The only member from Gods hand that I like is Void.

[Freija]

easily, he's the only one to have made gutts say pretty please

[Yakuza]

anyway...
im off for another week >_>
need to install my internet soon...
take care everyone and puck for the win :pek

[Freija]

Arrggh, why you b leaving ?


also may uchiha poppins be with you

[Yakuza]

Arrggh, why you b leaving ?
ive been innactive for the past month... just moved houses.. got my own crib now :del
so i have no internets yet... hopefully ill get it this comming week....
also may uchiha poppins be with you
:GB I wish you the same

[Haruko]

lol I've been reading Berserk for 4 weeks or something. All those years, and I've read it twice in 4 weeks.

[Freija]

youve said that twice haruko

[Segan]

@God_Enel: Nice ava and sig.

And yes, you guys are spamming too much. That's a god damned forum, not a chatbox.

[Freija]

sorry Segan :(


anyway honestly though, you think they'll arrive soon ? i've been wanting to see that island for a long time


and i feel like that kid gutts and C:o met on the beach has something with it to do

[Segan]

Well, at first I thought there would be no more battles on sea and was proven totally wrong. But the fight took only a single chapter, so I guess, they should arrive in two, three chapters.
But first I want to see what's up with Guts' chained inner beast. Miura isn't showing it for nothing.

At least I hope so.

[Freija]

2-3 chaps = 6-9 months :sag

[Segan]

Nah, next chapter comes out the 28th September. Seems like it's returning to its bi-monthly schedule.

[Freija]

that's awesome news :omg so like next month ill start catching up again :wtf

[Sess]

Responses
Her vice as a Godhand is lust, its just her being in character.
She's never shown any kindness to him. All her sexual advances (which is all its been) are pretty sinister, near rape in the troll cave even.
She's freely expressed this interest in front of the other members to boot.
I honestly have no idea why people would assume she has alternative anti-Gohand plans, its just ridiculous.That's what I keep saying. Slann is a bitch. A BITCH DAMMIT! THAT'S ALL!
Complaining is not allowed. The word "uninteresting" is forbidden to use. Blasphemer!

:P


But seriously, I don't like to see the same pattern in this thread like it happens everywhere. Deliberately waiting for every single chapter just to say: "That's what I waited for? Not interesting at all. This wasn't so good, that's wasn't better either..etc"

Berserk had chapters like these and with less development throughout the whole series.Oh no, not this again lol. :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUhL416sgu0Yeah, that's a great video. I have the high quality original as well as two other very good videos at a thread on my private forums. (http://www.fusionraid.com/viewtopic.php?t=14)


New Chapter
Nice. The battle was enjoyable, but I'm glad it only lasted the one chapter. Battles that don't involve Gutts tend to wear on me.

I'm concerned about Gutts' dream though. I think the armor's ability to take over his personality is affected by his state of mind. When he was fighting on the docks, Gutts was, I guess you could say, sort of in a good mood. He was in his element, you know what I mean? And so he was able to control the armor very well. But here on the ship, all he can do is think. And what he's been thinking about is Caska and he seems pretty depressed. I fear this is giving the armor a foothold to fight its way into his mind.


Sig
So, what's everyone think of my new sig? I had a pretty low quality image to work with. It took me a few hours in Adobe Photoshop and eyeon Fusion to make it look that nice.

[Segan]

Your sig is nice. I wish, there was a 3d animated movie about Berserk. That would be way better than any animated and real movies.

[MdB]

Something big is going to happen with Gutts and his inner beast.

[Elijah Snow]

^All we gotta do is wait for the 28th to find out what though.

[Pintsize]

Who wants to wait? Gimme Berserk now :yell

Think it'll be anything to do with Gutts already being immersed in the whatchmacallit that lets him warp the world around him? (I think Flora said that somewhere.) Add that to Gutts being in possession of a Behelit and we could have a self made apostle on our hands [/crazytheory]

[AbnormallyNormal]

wow nice chapter, and thank god only 2 more weeks instead of 2 more months to wait!!!!!!!!!! what a relief. yeah i think gutts might have some kind of weird nightmare where he perhaps gets more control over his inner demon. i have a feeling gutts will fight his demon in his mind somehow, maybe that is a cliche for a lot of mangas but i think it'll happen

[Sess]

What the crap Narutofan. I post once and end up with four copies, then I delete one and they all poof!

Anyway. Any thoughts on my theory about his dream?

[Pintsize]

What theory about his dream?

[Segan]

New Chapter
I'm concerned about Gutts' dream though. I think the armor's ability to take over his personality is affected by his state of mind. When he was fighting on the docks, Gutts was, I guess you could say, sort of in a good mood. He was in his element, you know what I mean? And so he was able to control the armor very well. But here on the ship, all he can do is think. And what he's been thinking about is Caska and he seems pretty depressed. I fear this is giving the armor a foothold to fight its way into his mind.

Guts was not in a good mood at all, not even remotely. The only reason he fought like this was because of Shierke's help. He hasn't gained control over his armor even once.

And, also, the beast was there way, way before the armor was introduced. It was steadily invading and occupying Guts' mind without him being able to do anything. That's why he let the current party travel along with him in the first place.
The armor doesn't do anything by itself, it only enhances the beast's influence over Guts' mind due to it's malevolent nature.

[Mat®icha]

read the scan. the ship fight waskinda interestin and kinda important to show how talented was the prince in that area. totally understandable. and from the lastpages i assume something sweeeeeet:grin gonna happen.

[AbnormallyNormal]

i still dont understand where gutts inner demon comes from in the first place though

[G@R-chan]

I think Guts inner demon comes from Guts inner soul.O_o
At least, that's the best explanation, his inner demon was always in him, this is the representation of his badassery and fighting spirit. I don't think the berserker armor gives him an inner demon but only enhances his killing intent and put him in a berserk state because it's too strong for his mind to keep a sane state. This is Guts' darkside.:nod

[Segan]

The existence of Guts' inner demon has been hinted ever since vol. 14, and also a few times during the Golden Age arc through the fact that was the type to literally go up alone against a whole army.

He has to be born with that, but the current form was most likely influenced by the events of the eclipse and has grown steadily to a point where Guts became aware of it and from there on, the process sped up to the point where the beast almost became an autonomous entity within Guts' mind.

[MdB]

What boggles my mind is the direction Muira want's to go with Gutt's inner beast that is evolving at a rapid rate. It's an pretty important detail ever since he got The Berserker Armor.

[Segan]

It's about Guts running into the danger of losing his humanity. Even before he wore the Berserker Armor, Skull Knight already mentioned that the path Guts was walking was too dark for a human to keep walking on.

He might be safe within the party and the island, but I doubt he's gonna stay there. And who's to say that not even the fairy king isn't aware of Griffith's existence and intends to do something about it? It's very possible that Guts has no possibility of staying out of the whole Griffith thing even if he wanted to (which most, most, most,...etc. likely isn't the case).

[G@R-chan]

Miura is a genius.
First, when Guts wears the berserker armor, he doesn't feel pain. The armor takes away all the physical obstacles that prevent his body to overpass his physical limit. We can suppose that Guts physical limit is so high that his psyche can't keep up with all the strength and physical damages his body is enduring.
A second hypothesis is the berserker armor influences his mental state to maximize his power. In Guts case, the best mental condition is when the inner beast takes over his body. When you don't think one second about what you're doing (doing something for the hell of it), you're truly releasing all your potential. And well, the armor would deserve his name.
I see 2 possibilities about the inner beast.
His inner beast could be the materialization of his unconscious. His moral and values prevent him from doing stupid things, but a life of bloodshed and wars could easily create a "darkside", something he truly wishes to do or to be aka inner beast.
The second possibility is the effect of the brand, he's always between 2 realms and we can think that the effect isn't neutral on his mind. The brand could increase the possibility to be affected by a demon or to grow up becoming a demon (at least to lose your mind).

Miura is making the inner beast a dangerous trump card. The group won't be safe anymore since the beast could be released anytime now, even in a boat where there's no real threat. If the story goes further, the chance of Guts losing his control are higher. Maybe some rapes or killing will occur, Evil Guts is closer and closer. Place your bets!!

[Pintsize]

God damn, I want a temporal rift to sap the rest of Berserk from. :sag

I agree with speculation. Beastie will become an issue probably. The fairy King will probably see it, but like Flora will do nothing. Because that's how it is for Gutts =/

[MdB]

Well.... That's the difference in power-ups between Shounens and Seinens. In Seinen manga's, power-ups really fuck you up.

[AbnormallyNormal]

i'm not sure i want gutts to become truly evil, i mean he's basically one of the few good people in the entire story so far. if he went evil everything would be destroyed essentially. perhaps when he fights god-hand femto he will 100% give in to his inner beast and then he and femto will kill each other off and spend eternity in hell together

[Dream Brother]

Should we even be talking about terms like 'good' and 'evil' in relation to Berserk?

I'd always thought of moral ambiguity as one of the central themes of the series -- resisting the all-too-easy trap of simplifying humans with tags, and instead exploring characters and their motivations, whatever they may be.

[G@R-chan]

That's my fault since I was talking about Evil Guts in my post. You're definitely right. I should have written Mad/Crazy Guts since when his inner beast takes over his body, he's just a bloodthirsty killing machine, a berserker.
But, we're all aware that the complexity and the motivations of the characters can't be simplified or tagged with basic notions like "evil" and "good". We're using the simple way to sum up our thoughts. I'll be cautious now. :nod

[yo586]

Should we even be talking about terms like 'good' and 'evil' in relation to Berserk?

I'd always thought of moral ambiguity as one of the central themes of the series -- resisting the all-too-easy trap of simplifying humans with tags, and instead exploring characters and their motivations, whatever they may be.

I think Berserk has taken a twist since the eclipse and certainly DOES define good and evil. Before Gutts was always seen as perhaps the most morally repulsive character in the story (but still lovable) then it was shown that Griffith and the Apostles were pretty much the ideas of evil. The story hints strongly at the folly of the masses blind faith and hero worship and suggests that it helps foster the evil Apostles. Do you really not believe the apostles are portrayed as evil creatures in the manga?

[AbnormallyNormal]

i feel like griffith's conversion into godhand status is portrayed as almost something he was forced into, witness godhand conrad persuading him to "keep piling 'em up" in reference to all the people he has had to kill, and if he stops he will join them. not much choice for griffith there, i feel like he was tricked by the idea of evil which apparently in berzerkverse = god. when god = evil yeah thats pretty fucked up

[Sess]

I hadn't really considered that the "demon" in Guts existed before he got the armor. The next time I read through the manga, I'm gonna have to look out for signs of that.

[Segan]

"Demon" is just one way of calling Guts' darker side. But it's a fact that it has been shown througout the series. But it was faint at first, and the reader would only be actually aware of it after the events of the eclipse.

[yo586]

I hadn't really considered that the "demon" in Guts existed before he got the armor. The next time I read through the manga, I'm gonna have to look out for signs of that.

Try the scene where he very nearly rapes Caska, its about as clear of a sign as it gets.

i feel like griffith's conversion into godhand status is portrayed as almost something he was forced into, witness godhand conrad persuading him to "keep piling 'em up" in reference to all the people he has had to kill, and if he stops he will join them. not much choice for griffith there, i feel like he was tricked by the idea of evil which apparently in berzerkverse = god. when god = evil yeah thats pretty fucked up

Didn't the Idea of Evil chapter get removed? This is the chapter where god explains he is the creation of people's needs for reasons. Just curious.

I don't think Griffith was tricked into anything, rather coaxed into realizing the path to his true goal. He seemed to embrace the idea of sacrifice once he quickly resolved his moral dilemma (friends or obscure dream hmm).

[AbnormallyNormal]

well but i dunno its hard to really say griffith is "evil" because in berserkverse you basically can only become powerful througgh sacrficing things, such as your comrades or lovers, or whatever. if you are born with a dream to become the best, and you do whatever you can to reach it, how is that necessarily evil? i mean think about it right now griffith is actually saving the people of midland, he's helping out the human beings big time right now saving everyone from the barbarian ganishka. so i really have a somewhat hard time seeing griffth as evil aside from when he raped casca. i feel like he only did that because gutts humiliated him so badly though, and he blames gutts for him being tortured for an entire year, because gutts departure from the hawk and easy own of griffith in swordfight basically made griffith kinda go insane and thats why he randomly fucked charlotte

[Wuzzman]

the so called gods in berserker are more intuned with what everyone in a brain in the berserker verse call demons. Griffith didn't have a choice and yet he did, there was a time when he could have stoped and lived a happy life with Casca. He choose the castle, and in the end, out of his consuming drive for power he sacrifice everything. The theme of Gutts has always been, he never knows what he has till after its gone. I guess Gutts plays his role in Griffith fall just as much as Griffith does, and in the end, they probably kill each other if they continue playing their roles. I think Gutts willingness to change is what will ultimately allow him to live through this.

[Elijah Snow]

Concerning the Idea of Evil chapter, it was removed from vol.13 upon Miura's request, saying that it revealed too much too soon. I would still think it would be considered canon, because he never said it didn't happen, just that it was revealed too early on in the story.

[Haruko]

Griffith's plan is coming together very quickly. They need to get to this island soon. They keep getting sidetracked, the idea started years ago.

[Segan]

Concerning the Idea of Evil chapter, it was removed from vol.13 upon Miura's request, saying that it revealed too much too soon. I would still think it would be considered canon, because he never said it didn't happen, just that it was revealed too early on in the story.

As far as I know, Miura never gave a reason to the removal of the lost chapter. But in the first volume of the german edition series of Berserk, there was an interview of Miura, and to one of the questions he answered (translation of my own):


I think, if I used words like "God" or "Satan", then the world of my story would be very limited, without depth or originality. God and Satan are creatures of mankind, created by human intellect. It's kind of like the story of the egg and the chicken, who was the first?
The existence of God and the demon's is a reflex of human existence. If I let God and Satan appear in BERSERK, they would only appear as an image, a [somewhat]copy of a human.
I hope the readers will understand my train of thought. I don't want to impose my view of things on them [the readers].


At the end of the interview there was a note:
Interview was done 4.12.1996 in Miura's studio and published in "Berserk Illustration File" 1997.

A german fansite also published it: german interview (http://www.berserkfan.cs-home.info/index.php?content=info/interview_1)


Under the impression of this particular answer, I'm inclined to say that Miura probably felt that the story went to a direction he didn't want it to go to and so he requested to remove this chapter when the tankobon edition was released.

[Zephos]

Yet he didn't remove the Idea of Evil.
We still see it at the end of chapter 82, and its alluded to later by Flora.
I don't buy the "he removed it from the story period" argeument at all.

The way he describes God/Devils and so forth also sounds exactly like the Idea, a being coming from human negativity, a reflection of humanity. Exactly like what he said a God/Devil would be like if he showed it.

[Segan]

Miura decided it after the chapter has been published. And do you really think he would remove chapter 82, too, when it only shows a single panel of God?

I think the problem Miura saw in that chapter was the fact that he let the Idea of Evil (which you might just call "God") give Griffith a blankocheck, meaning Griffith could mess with fate, real world and reality itself and cause utter destruction or other malevolent actions of similar importance, if he wanted to do so.
Something like that could complicate a story much more than necessary and he would have eventually been forced to break him down for the plot's sake, even though it shouldn't happen considering the position Griffith has been given.

[Zephos]

Miura decided it after the chapter has been published. And do you really think he would remove chapter 82, too, when it only shows a single panel of God?

It showed a giant two page spread with a speech balloon saying "God?".
Are you implying that removing pages is beyond the power of someone who removed a chapter and frequently moves chapters around?

I think the problem Miura saw in that chapter was the fact that he let the Idea of Evil (which you might just call "God") give Griffith a blankocheck, meaning Griffith could mess with fate, real world and reality itself and cause utter destruction or other malevolent actions of similar importance, if he wanted to do so.

Where are you getting that?

Something like that could complicate a story much more than necessary and he would have eventually been forced to break him down for the plot's sake, even though it shouldn't happen considering the position Griffith has been given.

"Break him down" what?
I also don't see how the Idea doing with the Godhand what the Godhand already does to the apostles is going to complicate things.

[yo586]

Thing that always surprised me is that "God" is the idea of evil, created from human negativity. Where is the higher power that formed from the idea of good? If we follow the supposition that the collective conscious of humankind can create creatures more powerful than armies, then what of the good side of humankind (hope as opposed to "reason"). This underlying philisophical issue is the only real issue I have with Miura's storytelling.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Thing that always surprised me is that "God" is the idea of evil, created from human negativity. Where is the higher power that formed from the idea of good? If we follow the supposition that the collective conscious of humankind can create creatures more powerful than armies, then what of the good side of humankind (hope as opposed to "reason"). This underlying philisophical issue is the only real issue I have with Miura's storytelling.

yes i thought of that too, i mean the existence of skull knight and flora serve as the "good apostles" more or less but what about a "good god hand" or "idea of good" i dunno. i think we'll find out more when the history of god-hand void gets revealed and also of skull knight's past. but i guess that generally speaking, evil is much more open for drama and tension and conflict, which makes for a better story, than good is.

[Segan]

It showed a giant two page spread with a speech balloon saying "God?".
Are you implying that removing pages is beyond the power of someone who removed a chapter and frequently moves chapters around?
No, I'm not implying that...what I meant was that it wasn't necessary to remove everything. He could just find a new idea to implement, but the way he portrayed "God" might not have pleased him after some thought.

And yes, I know, it's all speculation. But so is the saying "it revealed too much too soon". Miura never said that.


Where are you getting that?
You ask where I'm getting that? o_0 I thought you read the lost chapter...


"Break him down" what?
I also don't see how the Idea doing with the Godhand what the Godhand already does to the apostles is going to complicate things.
I was talking about Griffith, not the other God Hands. It's not so important for Guts to interact with the rest of the demigods, but his relationship with Griffith is essential. And if you make him untouchable, then what the hell is your main protagonist gonna do? Just struggle and die like a dog? I doubt that's Miura's intention with his story...

[Orochimaru_sadistic_joy]

Not to chime in randomly but what has been brought up and addressed is extensive to say the least so the question is "Where to begin?"

Be warned lots of speculation:

Well to address the idea of where could the opposing power to the malevolent entity Griffith encountered be?

---Well first off if the entity came into being from the combined compiling of the mans negativity then look at the state the country, appearance is always deceiving in Berserk verse. A country to that appears to function on the surface may differ when the individuals that make up the masses are alone. Look at the King of Midland, a hard working man and devoted king to his people was shown and so we thought. However this contrasted drastically when Griffith revealed the King's revolting desires and twisted intentions for his daughter.

It's a lengthy way of saying "What we know of people is limited, what they put out into the world is their own and we know not if it's good or bad." So Miura would have to help us grasp a greater understanding of the current state of mind, 100 year war, secret sins revealed, tragedy, and death. The potential for good to be born from all the turmoil is sparse, and in those times of need people put stock in whatever they can reach out and understand. And being left feeling bitter is great way to brew hate.


Or

To completely destroy what I've wrote above: Maybe Miura wanted us to question whether these entities we think are divine are always good or more accurately what we think of is as good?

Can they (God Hand or the Entity) be demons to most and angels to some?(Quoting Clive Barker) Yes if the need is great enough, such as not dying because you're scared and sacrificing your humanity to live on as a pathetic shadow of yourself as the cost. (Apostles)


((What I'm thinking is Maybe there is no distinction between the two sides so to speak. Depending on what we put out is what we get back in either a positive or negative influence into the real world.))

Yeah just a start and I'm sure this post sounds jumbled together but what the hell, I'll improve upon it later.

[yo586]

((What I'm thinking is Maybe there is no distinction between the two sides so to speak. Depending on what we put out is what we get back in either a positive or negative influence into the real world.))

No distinction between the sides? I think the side that incorporates trolls, bloodthirsty men who transform into apostles, and other "dark" creatures (per witch definition) should be seen as evil not good. Griffith is just plain evil and Miura really doesn't give much ambiguity to that. The idea of Griffith is to give false hope and security while the world slowly becomes "eternal night" while no one rises up to stop it.

[AbnormallyNormal]

i was kind of shocked/disappointed that griffth got reincarnated as a semi humanoid. i liked his harsh femto look better, it was more befitting that he would reign in the pits of hell in some crazy alternate escher-like dimension. now he's just a weird typical overlord of the planet, he seems a lot weaker now too. my fave character is probably nosferatu zodd. he isnt exactly evil since he has a sense of honor after all. he's not as bad as someone like wyald for instance. zodd only fights and would prefer his enemies be just as strong as he is, its a pretty cool way to live if you have to be an apostle. also the god hand void seems kinda interesting. gutts would be cooler if he wasnt so fucked up, i mean he's missing an eye, half an arm, his hair's turning white, burns everywhere lol, how does he even move around anymore. his sword owns though

[yo586]

Personally I love that Griffith is back in human form. He does seem weaker, probably not as strong as when he is Femto. But what makes him so ridiculously badass is the minimal effort and work he exerts to get the job done. Brutal efficiency and using his apostles while controlling from the back.

[Zephos]

No, I'm not implying that...what I meant was that it wasn't necessary to remove everything. He could just find a new idea to implement, but the way he portrayed "God" might not have pleased him after some thought.

The way he portrays the Idea is exactly what he said he would show a God like if he did. The interview question perfectly fits this, while people have seen other accounts directly addressing the chapter as revaeling too much too soon.

And yes, I know, it's all speculation. But so is the saying "it revealed too much too soon". Miura never said that.

Not according to the folks at SkullKnight.net.


You ask where I'm getting that? o_0 I thought you read the lost chapter...


I'm asking where you got that this was Miura's problem with it.

I was talking about Griffith, not the other God Hands. It's not so important for Guts to interact with the rest of the demigods, but his relationship with Griffith is essential. And if you make him untouchable, then what the hell is your main protagonist gonna do? Just struggle and die like a dog? I doubt that's Miura's intention with his story...


Griffith is already untouchable.
People are making a huge mistake in assuming griffith is human again just because of the way he looks.
The Idea of Evil has nothing to do with this.

[Segan]

The way he portrays the Idea is exactly what he said he would show a God like if he did. The interview question perfectly fits this, while people have seen other accounts directly addressing the chapter as revaeling too much too soon.
It does fit, but the problem here is basically that a mirror (metaphorically speaking) gives a man the power and permission to do in the real world whatever he wants to. It makes you wonder if humanity actually wants to be ruled by whatever they created by themselves.
My point is, that Miura wants to do something different with "God" than what he's done before.

Not according to the folks at SkullKnight.net.Like they could back it up with an official source...

I'm asking where you got that this was Miura's problem with it.It's speculation on my part. There's a reason why Miura took this particular chapter, and I believe the reason is another one than the one that is widely accepted.

Griffith is already untouchable.
People are making a huge mistake in assuming griffith is human again just because of the way he looks.
The Idea of Evil has nothing to do with this.For Guts right now Griffith indeed is untouchable (or maybe not since the Dragonslayer has spiritual power now). But Skull Knight pointed out that Griffith isn't invincible. A sorcerer wielding great power could oppose him, which was the reason he commanded the execution of Flora.
In other words, Griffith is not untouchable by absolute means. There's (a reeeaaaally) faint chance of Guts to strike him down. But not without help (of magic) I think.

[AbnormallyNormal]

i think gutts is going to have to utilize behelit sometime in order to truly confront griffith, and unfortunately i dont think zodd is going to survive til the end of the story either :(

[Sess]

Try the scene where he very nearly rapes Caska, its about as clear of a sign as it gets.I don't think that's a fair example. That was Gutts freaking out over a flashback to one very specific very real isolated incident from his past. Nothing like that ever happened before or since. While he has thought about that incident from when he was a kid on a few occasions, I never felt that those thoughts were influencing his actions.

I'm not trying to say that there is no darkness within Gutts. I admit that it's possible the sum total of Gutts' life could have created this darkness within him. I just think that the time he was raped and the time he almost raped Caska are unrelated to this darkness. I think Miura's reason for introducing this incident with Caska was to make a stronger connection between Gutts and Caska. It connected them through events in their past that were similar and by exposing Gutts emotionally to Caska.

[Segan]

@Sess: Look, the demon was there long, long before the armor. That's all you should know. And Berserk isn't about fairness anyway. And yo586's example was very valid. Without Guts being cornered or pushed in some way, the demon wouldn't come out, because those situations are his only chances.

At least up until now.

[Muk]

Until the armor came about, Gutts demon only came out when he was completely cornered

I believe the Lost Chapter was taken out, because it has something to do with the plot and revealing the information so early on, if one would find it would in Mirua's opinion probably ruin the rest of it.

It's probably a conceptual problem and thus he asked it to be removed again

I think it holds true that Guts even with his dragon slayer will have a very difficult time touching Griffin. It may not be that his dragon slayer cannot touch him, but that the dragon slayer and Guts himself cannot reach Griffin right now.

Some kind of Shield (besides plot shield) would protect Griffin from Guts attack right now, thus Guts needs to find a way to touch Griffin before he can slay him.

[Zephos]

For Guts right now Griffith indeed is untouchable (or maybe not since the Dragonslayer has spiritual power now). But Skull Knight pointed out that Griffith isn't invincible. A sorcerer wielding great power could oppose him, which was the reason he commanded the execution of Flora.
In other words, Griffith is not untouchable by absolute means. There's (a reeeaaaally) faint chance of Guts to strike him down. But not without help (of magic) I think.

Griffith is untouchable in that he exists on a higher plane of the cosmic layers.
For Gutts.
Weve already seen plenty of ways that people reach into deeper layers of the universe, magic, behelits, the brand, etc.
Gutts is already more or less following down Skull Knights path, and look at how much he's able to touch higher realms, he broke into the eclipse ceremony.

[Segan]

Griffith is untouchable in that he exists on a higher plane of the cosmic layers.
For Gutts.
Weve already seen plenty of ways that people reach into deeper layers of the universe, magic, behelits, the brand, etc.
Gutts is already more or less following down Skull Knights path, and look at how much he's able to touch higher realms, he broke into the eclipse ceremony.
What's your point now? The possibility of defeating Griffith exist for Guts, but's it's so small, that you might just say it's impossible, it makes virtually no difference, as it stands now. Too much obstacles to overcome.

[Zephos]

What's your point now? The possibility of defeating Griffith exist for Guts, but's it's so small, that you might just say it's impossible, it makes virtually no difference, as it stands now. Too much obstacles to overcome.

Exactly.
At almost every turn "YOUR QUEST IS HOPELESS" is bashed over Gutt's head.
But he keeps going anyway.
Whats your point?

[Segan]

My point was that Griffith wasn't untouchable by every single means. Had Miura decided to keep the lost chapter, it might have been difficult for his story to conclude in a way that would satisfy him if he planned for Guts to take Griffith personally down, when he made Griffith way too "omnipotent".

And if it's not Guts who takes Griffith down, then their whole relationship had no meaning whatsoever.

[Zephos]

My point was that Griffith wasn't untouchable by every single means. Had Miura decided to keep the lost chapter, it might have been difficult for his story to conclude in a way that would satisfy him if he planned for Guts to take Griffith personally down, when he made Griffith way too "omnipotent".

And if it's not Guts who takes Griffith down, then their whole relationship had no meaning whatsoever.

How does the Idea telling Griffith he can do as he pleases, "bring pain or salvation to mankind" making Griffith too omnipotent? How does it make him omnipotent at all? That makes no sense whatsoever.

[Segan]

Who do you think would grant Griffith the power needed to fulfill the wish Griffith has? You think, the Idea would just say "do what you want" and then leave Griffith be like the poor soul he is?

No, Griffith will be given power, real power. But the way the chapter played out pretty much implied that the Idea didn't just mean to grant him a wish, but to make him above anything else in the world of humankind. Which would be the equivalent of "omnipotence" in BERSERK. Omnipotence as in being omnipotent in relation to the human world.

[Segan]

Double Posting.

Holy shit, there's a preview picture of chapter 290.

http://www.younganimal.com/berserk/sp/img/07v19.jpg

It will most likely revolve around Guts' bad dream, I'm sure of it :>

[Zephos]

Who do you think would grant Griffith the power needed to fulfill the wish Griffith has? You think, the Idea would just say "do what you want" and then leave Griffith be like the poor soul he is?

When did Griffith wish for omnipotence?
In fact when aside for asking for wings did we ever hear a wish from Griffith?

No, Griffith will be given power, real power. But the way the chapter played out pretty much implied that the Idea didn't just mean to grant him a wish, but to make him above anything else in the world of humankind.

He's a Godhand, of course he's above anything in the human world.

[Muk]

griffin is a manifested godhand on the mortal plane

all other godhands cannot materialize themselves to the mortal plane without a special event happening

and girffin being given direct power from the idea itself makes him as good as omnipotent

man that spoiler picture looks good ...

[Zephos]

griffin is a manifested godhand on the mortal plane

all other godhands cannot materialize themselves to the mortal plane without a special event happening

and girffin being given direct power from the idea itself makes him as good as omnipotent


No, it really dosen't.
Griffith is only able to materalize to the mortal world because he had a reverse eclipse ceremony. Nothing has stated that this would be impossible for the other Godhand members to have happend to them.

[Segan]

When did Griffith wish for omnipotence?
In fact when aside for asking for wings did we ever hear a wish from Griffith?
Him wishing wings had a deeper meaning than just having merely wings. And no, Griffith didn't wish for omnipotence. But the power that he would be given, would have given him virtual omnipotence. It would be a consequence of the Idea giving him full authority over humankind.

He's a Godhand, of course he's above anything in the human world.
Yes, but he's not completely unbeatable.

[Zephos]

Him wishing wings had a deeper meaning than just having merely wings. And no, Griffith didn't wish for omnipotence. But the power that he would be given, would have given him virtual omnipotence. It would be a consequence of the Idea giving him full authority over humankind.

Which the Idea didn't do.

Yes, but he's not completely unbeatable.

He is by anyone in the human world.

[Segan]

Which the Idea didn't do.
In the lost chapter he did...


He is by anyone in the human world.
Magicians are humans, too, and Skull Knight implied that it would be possible for a mage to defeat Griffith in the form he is now.

[Zephos]

In the lost chapter he did...

Quote for me where the Idea gives Griffith full authority over mankind.

Magicians are humans, too, and Skull Knight implied that it would be possible for a mage to defeat Griffith in the form he is now.

But magicians exist on higher planes of existence than the mortal realm.
Gutts and Casca, and incidentally anyone with a brand, also does.

[Segan]

Magicians live in the same world as humans. They just usually conceal themselves. You are confusing the plane thing with the fact that every human has a spirit in the astral planes (astral body).

And about the Idea giving Griffith full authority...well, the whole chapter is my quote. What the Idea told, can basically be summed up in one sentence: "Humans created me and wished for you to come and rule them and so I summoned you to me through pulling the strings of fate then and there and I'm giving you permission to rule and do whatever you want"

Berserk is rarely a manga with concrete statements. For example, Griffith didn't exactly say "I'm gonna sacrifice all of the Hawks", but only "I sacrifice". And the Hawks were obliterated.
It's the same way with the Idea. He didn't explicitly said it, but he meant it.

[Zephos]

Magicians live in the same world as humans. They just usually conceal themselves. You are confusing the plane thing with the fact that every human has a spirit in the astral planes (astral body).


I'm not confusing anything.
Magicians and Branded people simulataneously exist on two planes.

And about the Idea giving Griffith full authority...well, the whole chapter is my quote. What the Idea told, can basically be summed up in one sentence: "Humans created me and wished for you to come and rule them and so I summoned you to me through pulling the strings of fate then and there and I'm giving you permission to rule and do whatever you want"

So where did he give him omnipresent ruling power?

Berserk is rarely a manga with concrete statements. For example, Griffith didn't exactly say "I'm gonna sacrifice all of the Hawks", but only "I sacrifice". And the Hawks were obliterated.

We didn't hear the end of the sentence.

It's the same way with the Idea. He didn't explicitly said it, but he meant it.


This logic could be used to interpret ANYTHING from that scene.
What wasn't stated wasn't stated, and nothing else suggests the Idea gave any actual omni powers to Griffith.

[Segan]

I'm not confusing anything.
Magicians and Branded people simulataneously exist on two planes.
So does everyone else..
So where did he give him omnipresent ruling power? If the lost chapter was being kept in the tankobon, it would have pretty much implied that the Idea made Griffith omnipresent in relation to the material world. But the chapter isn't canon, at least not technically.

We didn't hear the end of the sentence.This was the whole sentence...literally.


This logic could be used to interpret ANYTHING from that scene.
What wasn't stated wasn't stated, and nothing else suggests the Idea gave any actual omni powers to Griffith.
Since the lost chapter isn't included, yes, you are right, Griffith doesn't actually have omnipowers. Thanks for supporting my point.

[yo586]

Omnipotence of the godhands is hinted at in the manga, but only so that Gut's struggle can be seen as futile impossibility. It is obvious that for any resolution there can't be omnipotence of the "bad guys" so anyone with half a head shoulda had that figured out from chapter 1.

Whether or not the reason the chapter was taken out because of this issue is moot point (IMO). Its an argument of splitting hairs. Either way, it can be agreed Griffith is fallible, and that there are some "variables" in the cosmic flow uncontrolled by "god" (if the Skullnight is to be trusted)

[Segan]

Omnipotence of the godhands is hinted at in the manga, but only so that Gut's struggle can be seen as futile impossibility. It is obvious that for any resolution there can't be omnipotence of the "bad guys" so anyone with half a head shoulda had that figured out from chapter 1.

Whether or not the reason the chapter was taken out because of this issue is moot point (IMO). Its an argument of splitting hairs. Either way, it can be agreed Griffith is fallible, and that there are some "variables" in the cosmic flow uncontrolled by "god" (if the Skullnight is to be trusted)

That why I put the word omnipotence in inverted commas ("omnipotence") to show that I meant it only in relative context with the human (material) world.

But either way, have you seen the preview pic for chapter 290 I showed before?

[Zephos]

So does everyone else..

No they don't. If your talking about ghosts of normal people that obviously dosen't count.

If the lost chapter was being kept in the tankobon, it would have pretty much implied that the Idea made Griffith omnipresent in relation to the material world. But the chapter isn't canon, at least not technically.

I still call bullshit on your interpretation.
Which it is, an interpretation, your acting like what your saying is directly there, which as weve already established, it isn't. Than you fell back on the incredibly weak reasoning that "it was implied". But outside of that youv'e given no creeddence to it being implied except for pure speculation on the Idea's words.

All you have is a theory. Not a fact.
Learn the difference.

This was the whole sentence...literally.

Go back and read it again.
In the speech balloon its the end, but were only hearing part of a sentence. The end of it.

Since the lost chapter isn't included, yes, you are right, Griffith doesn't actually have omnipowers. Thanks for supporting my point.

And that bring us back to the unknown reason it was removed. Which either means the chapter still is canon, or not.

[Segan]

Sigh, I always said that it's speculation on my part and that it's just my belief. It's your fault for thinking I'm selling this as a fact.

And it was still the whole sentence.

[Sess]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

[AbnormallyNormal]

well i am pretty sure gutts will have some other way to achieve new level of power even beyond the berzerk armor, i think he may even become an apostle or something just in order to slay griffith and then die at the end

[Segan]

I would rather have Guts slaying Griffith and the rest of the God Hand as a human...that would make him the more badass than Kenshiro...definitely.

[AbnormallyNormal]

that doesnt seem possible, i mean he's already post human with his inner beast being unleashed all the time and his dragon slayer has spirit power, so its not like hes a human at this point anyhow

[Segan]

Yes, he is. A twisted alter ego doesn't make a human a demon. Biologically he's full human.

[Mat®icha]

i started to read it again, cant get enough of it.

[Goodfellow]

Actually I doubt Guts will ever reach the power to slay the God's hand. I find it more likely that Guts kill them by proxy and plot power (but I expect it to be justified plot power).

The God's hand shouldn't be able to exist without the idea of evil constantly powering them, and the idea of evil nests in middle of the soulstream of people who've had contact with apostles.

So if Guts (who got a connection to the soulstream and doomed to get sucked into it) would slay the Idea of the evil at the same time, then the God's hand would probably lose their power.

[Segan]

Well, I don't think Guts will obtain the actual power to defeat any of the God Hand, let alone the Idea of Evil. But he might get a chance to get a shot in a moment where they would be vulnerable and thus in his reach.

I'm talking about the kind of vulnerability like Schierke when she's in trance while performing her spells, right before she makes the pact with the summons.

[Muk]

you know now that you mentioned the wolf again ...

it feels like the wolf is like a counterpart to the idea of evil or maybe the same but sliced of a different side of the bread ...

so maybe if gutts can somehow unleash that "wolf/beast/berserk" of his in front of the idea of evil, the wolf will devour/destory the idea of evil and gutts thus possibly gain the ability to touch and slay to god hands and griffin at once

[Sess]

The God's hand shouldn't be able to exist without the idea of evil constantly powering them, and the idea of evil nests in middle of the soulstream of people who've had contact with apostles.

Everybody will join hands in a circle and sing Kumbaya. Then Riku will show up to help with his powered up hugs! :P

[AbnormallyNormal]

well it seems clear skull knight will be needed somehow to prepare the way for gutts' onslaught of mayhem vs god hands. i really dont even think gutts gives a damn about the other four god hands, just femto/griffith. skull knight will probably hold the others off, or else zodd/slann may even help gutts (yes i think this will happen). i hope all the other characters dont just stay fodder though. perhaps casca will even fight too if she gets her mem back. although there's stil the issue of that black haired boy who mysteriously appeared at that beach, he has to come back somehow

[Segan]

well it seems clear skull knight will be needed somehow to prepare the way for gutts' onslaught of mayhem vs god hands. i really dont even think gutts gives a damn about the other four god hands, just femto/griffith. skull knight will probably hold the others off, or else zodd/slann may even help gutts (yes i think this will happen). i hope all the other characters dont just stay fodder though. perhaps casca will even fight too if she gets her mem back. although there's stil the issue of that black haired boy who mysteriously appeared at that beach, he has to come back somehow

The Albion arc and Kliffoth tell otherwise...

[yo586]

I think his hate for apostles definetly spreads to the other 4 god hands, but if he kills Griffith first, he may say fuck it all and just relax happily.

[Segan]

I think his hate for apostles definetly spreads to the other 4 god hands, but if he kills Griffith first, he may say fuck it all and just relax happily.

He can't really relax, until the God Hand and the Idea of Evil are completely erased off the map.

The brand is still there, you know...

Edit: I'm thinking about making a Berserk respect thread. What do you guys think?

[yo586]

I'll give Berserk some respect. And yeah, obviously he won't rest, but then again we'll never see him get a chance, Griffith isn't gonna peace out till the end (if he does die at all).

[Goodfellow]

He can't really relax, until the God Hand and the Idea of Evil are completely erased off the map.

The brand is still there, you know...

Edit: I'm thinking about making a Berserk respect thread. What do you guys think?

Yes, do that:gin

[Segan]

I'll give Berserk some respect. And yeah, obviously he won't rest, but then again we'll never see him get a chance, Griffith isn't gonna peace out till the end (if he does die at all).That a fact?

Yes, do that:gin
I already have got roughly 4 or 5 pages full text and it most likely will be four or five times bigger in the end. Images not included.

It will take a few weeks at least, considering I'm usually at work over the day.

[AbnormallyNormal]

this may sound dumb but what is a respect thread

[Segan]

It's a thread with the purpose to present a manga (or other genres) series. It's not exactly a discussion series, but a collection of informations about the series in question.

Go to the second half of this thread (http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=10381904&postcount=3), there you will find respect threads.

[Agmaster]

That a fact?


Looking at this manga's pace? Yes.

[secret_toad]

Is their a site dedicated to Berserk
that has wallpaper and colorings and such?

[Segan]

Looking at this manga's pace? Yes.

Looking at the Dragonslayer's revealed ability we knew nothing about? I don't think so....

If Guts wasn't gonna get at least a slim chance, then there would have been absolutely no point in revealing Guts' sword ability and him finishing off Slann's corporeal form.

@toad: Try google. I'm sure you fill find something decent.

[yo586]

I meant we'll never see Gutts kill griffith before the end (or near end) of the story. It just would be bad storytelling.

[Segan]

I meant we'll never see Gutts kill griffith before the end (or near end) of the story. It just would be bad storytelling.

Yeah, it would be bad storytelling, but you worded it badly before. The word "never" contradicts with the meaning of the last part of the sentence.

But whatever...

I wish I had the respect thread done by now so I could prove it for once and all that Guts is the most badass character in the mangaverse... :(

[yo586]

Realized I worded it badly afterwards, thats what THC will do to you I guess.

[AbnormallyNormal]

gutts is definitely one of the most badass if not the most badass chars of all time.... he's been through so much, pretty much his entire life has been a nightmare but he's still incredibly powerful and deep down a good person

[Pintsize]

New chapter today :iria

[Segan]

New chapter today :iriaNow that you mention it...yeah, you're right.

And allow me to repost what has been previously ignored (you bastards!)
Double Posting.

Holy shit, there's a preview picture of chapter 290.

http://www.younganimal.com/berserk/sp/img/07v19.jpg

It will most likely revolve around Guts' bad dream, I'm sure of it :>

[Moridin]

berserk 290 raw

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OTH5MAZ2

[Elijah Snow]

Thanks for the link, I can't believe I forgot that it came out this week.

[Segan]

berserk 290 raw

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OTH5MAZ2

Thanks a bunch.
It can't get any more clearer. There's no way Guts will stay on the island. The monster in him has grown too big and too strong.

I gotta wonder if Guts is going to have a split personality? Considering that the Armor accelerated the Beast's growth, it's safe to assume that it's strong enough to gain more influence on its own.
I'm beginning to think that the short blackout Guts had before he saved Casca from drowning was a testament to the Beast's growing influence.

[yo586]

I like chapters like this. Miura does a really fucking good job drawing that beast too. I have to say its one of the best depictions of savagery I have seen in a manga.

[Pintsize]

Come onnnnnn, onemanga :iria

[Muk]

it is so strange seeing gutts without his left lower elbow

[Segan]

There's no such thing as a lower elbow.

[Sess]

Ahhh! EVIL_GENIUS is killing me!

Must be patient. Must be patient. Must be patient.
Must be patient. Must be patient. Must be patient.

I can't even read anything in this thread for fear of spoilers.

Must be patient. Must be patient. Must be patient.
Must be patient. Must be patient. Must be patient.

Yes I know there are other scans out there, but this is Berserk and must be respected! Only EVIL_GENIUS will do!

Good things come to those who wait......

[Elijah Snow]

No new chapter till November, I'm a little sad now.

[Muk]

i mean lower left forearm XD

ahh noo evil genius still hasn't scanned it yet T_T

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

no translations yet :( but i already read the translation at mangahelpers :grin

The artwork is fucking awesome ... Miyura's artwork has to be one the best IMO

[Segan]

no translations yet :( but i already read the translation at mangahelpers :grin

The artwork is fucking awesome ... Miyura's artwork has to be one the best IMOIt's the best in my book.

And you got a link to the translation?

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

And you got a link to the translation?

Hontoni gomennasai :cry
i searched for half an hr but couldnt find it .... will send the link when i stumble upon it