Berserk Discussion Thread

[Hype]

Steals a post

Uploading the manga for a mate of mine so I'll be nicking this post to link back too :D



Vol 1 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JYD89BMP)
Vol 2 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=K8WZNGSK)
Vol 3 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DII72RWZ)

[AbnormallyNormal]

it's also on onemanga now.... awesome ! it looks like ganishka is going uber, but of course he still won't win. but now i am thinking some of the neo-hawk will be killed for sure, if ganishka is truly "reincarnated" as something even stronger than his old self

[Arishem]

That was a great cliffhanger. We didn't even get a hint at what he'll look like though. :(

[AbnormallyNormal]

i also like ganishka's total lack of common sense, how his mist killed all his forces in the city lol

[Sigbin-Puti]

go ganishka i'm rooting for u even though there no chance in hell u would win.

[mystictrunks]

My boy Ganishka is gonna get his ass beat, but hey at least he tried.

[Sigbin-Puti]

i hope ganishka doesn't wuss out in the end and swear allegiance to the hawk. i kinda admire how he defies griffith than being simply a mindless drone among the neo hawks.

[Mat®icha]

wow, it was awesome. finally freaks r out of the picture. i totally enjoyed this chapter. i hope at least 1 or 2 of the apostles die, from griffith's side i mean.

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

Do you guys know that Ganishka and his minions are based on Indian Mythology ? This is turning out to be something like Alexander's conquest of India ... he got royally raped by the Indian Elephants of the Maurya Dynasty at that time .... I hope the same thing happens here too ...


It is great to see the Indian architecture drawn so well in the manga .. Berserk FTW :yell

[Muk]

oo i like the new power that ganishka gained

his mist alone now is capable of killing anything alive (more like draining) a mist vampire :D

but i want to see those apostle from the hawks die, like all of them

[Guts]

Havent been able to read in ages :(

[Arishem]

I wouldn't say that the deaths of his troops were pointless. What I got from the chapter is that Ganishka absorbed their lives to facilitate his transformation, and it will be interesting to see how powerful he becomes. It'd be awesome if he was far beyond any other apostle.

[Mat®icha]

I wouldn't say that the deaths of his troops were pointless. What I got from the chapter is that Ganishka absorbed their lives to facilitate his transformation, and it will be interesting to see how powerful he becomes. It'd be awesome if he was far beyond any other apostle.

i believe he's already much stronger than the other apostles. hopefully after this he'll be on par with griffith.

it's been a while since some1 important died in the story. maybe/also i hope it's time for some apostles to die away. not zodd of course.

[Sigbin-Puti]

it would be nice if ganishka would be able to force griffith to revert to femto which is highly unlikely. go ganishka die with honor.

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

Yeah, Ganishka's power is terrifying .... he can just absorb the whole army that comes against him. A truly fearful power ...
But can it absorb the apostles too ? I am not too sure if the God hands can also be devoured ... he would probably get power by abosorbing the mortals and then use it to fight Griffith.
A big battle is gonna start ... XD

[Sigbin-Puti]

wow miura really pumping up ganishka maybe he would end up as the 6th unofficial god hand. my hopes are slowly rising that maybe he at least leave a scar on him.

[MdB]

I doubt he stands much of a change against a God Hand but for all we know Griffith may have some limitations in his reincarnated human form.

[Muk]

well griffith did blow his mist away .... wonder if he can fight his wind this time around :D

[Segan]

You're getting ahead of yourselves, people.

It does seem that Ganishka is just gaining a major power-up, but we don't actually know what his new abilities will be. What the mist did to the living beings, is only an indicator for his new powers.

I'm just hoping that Miura doesn't only hype him up like last time before he got humiliated by Griffith. I want a real opposition to the God Hand, and I hope that Ganishka is a potent candidate for this.

[Morpheus]

Well, i don't really see what he can do to a Demi God like Griffith, unless he gets a massive power boost due to that artificial Behelit he made.

[Sigbin-Puti]

the man made behelit is really interesting plus the last page something ominous from deep within the astral world.

[Muk]

maybe if "violate" the "natural" oder of making a behilith you might become an "artificial" godhand

since ganishka is sacrificing his fellow soldiers to gain new powers and the "mist" would be the "branded" symbol.

[Segan]

That's an interesting theory.

[Sess]

I was expecting the deadly mist to be sent from Griffith's side. The way the children talked about it, it was as if it was sent to cleanse the city of evil. But I guess it didn't turn out quite like I expected.

I would also like to see some real opposition to Griffith. Ever since he came back he's been completely untouchable and it's starting to piss me off. Besides, if Ganishka is able to at least hurt Griffith a little bit in his powered up state, that gives hope to Guts that he will eventually be able to get to Griffith as well. Yes, he will have a long way to go, but at least it will no longer seem impossible.

[AbnormallyNormal]

yeah i wouldn't mind if everyone in the neo hawk is dead but griffth and zodd. that would be ideal.... and as far as an artificial 6th god hand, it does seem to be heading that way, but we'll see

[$Naruto19$]

Guts >>>Griffith

[Segan]

I've been thinking about it now, and I feel, that Miura is leading us offroad by hyping Ganishka up.

I mean, the nature of that huge pot of Apostles called "artificial Behelith" may be similar to that of a true Behelith, which does not surprise as the Behelith is the key of becoming an Apostle in the first place.
But unlike the artificial item, the real one doesn't give you power, but only opens an astral dimension and summons the God Hand, which are the ones who give power to become an Apostle. This leads me to believe that the artificial Behelith can only give power of Apostles, that were used to create the artificial Behelith.

But I hope I'm wrong and that the new Behelith grants power based on one's potential (of whatever kind it may be), which might possibly be worthy of a God Hand.

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

The plot obviously states that Ganishka would get defeated by Griffiths .... but this artifical behelit theory is interesting ......
I think that Ganishka is close to being a Godhand IMO ...... we might get clues as to how one can defeat a Godhand from this fight.

[Elijah Snow]

I honestly think Ganishka will simply be used as a martyr and be easily taken care of, proving that nothing else stands in Griffith's path.

[Wuzzman]

Griffiths should only die after raping Caska a second time.

[AbnormallyNormal]

casca should be the one to kill griffith

[Zephos]

Griffiths should only die after raping Caska a second time.

What the hell is wrong with you?

[Shikashi]

WTF?! He should have been killed the second he did it...

[Power16]

Griffiths should only die after raping Caska a second time.

Wow! Having some problem at home, huh?

[Aokiji]

Damn, I read the lost chapter. :arg

[Elijah Snow]

I actually liked the lost chapter...I wish it was never taken out.

[Muk]

Damn, I read the lost chapter. :arg

What was wrong with it?

Just some mind boggeling and thinking :D

[Aokiji]

I got spoilered.

[Muk]

what's so spoilery about the lost chapter

at most it allows more food for thought

[Elijah Snow]

New chapter this week, was extremely interesting.

[Segan]

New chapter this week, was extremely interesting.

New chapter? Where?

[Elijah Snow]

292 was released by Evil Genius earlier this week right? I know the raw was out on the 22nd/23rd but the actual scanlation was released this week.

[Sess]

casca should be the one to kill griffithThat'd me nice.

292 was released by Evil Genius earlier this week right? I know the raw was out on the 22nd/23rd but the actual scanlation was released this week.292 was released a couple weeks ago.

[Muk]

yes but not EG's version :P

only keeps hawks and eg's berserk version

i still think casca is going to stick with griffith even after she recovers her mind

or she'll be in denial of what happened

[Wuzzman]

lol. It is a fitting end for Griffth, to die after raping the one woman who could have given him happy normal life. Besides if I read the manga right the monsters raping her was more traumatic then Griffth...hell I say she enjoyed it considering that she always wanted Griffth....hmmm...........Don't get me wrong he is a basterd, but the guy is made of win regardless -_-

[Sess]

yes but not EG's version :P

only keeps hawks and eg's berserk version

i still think casca is going to stick with griffith even after she recovers her mind

or she'll be in denial of what happenedNo, I don't think so. Basically, the way she is right now is the denial of what happened. She's denying her entire life by forgetting everything. If she ever gets her memory back, she won't go into some other form of denial coz that would be more of the same and I think Miura would write something more interesting than that.

lol. It is a fitting end for Griffth, to die after raping the one woman who could have given him happy normal life. Besides if I read the manga right the monsters raping her was more traumatic then Griffth...hell I say she enjoyed it considering that she always wanted Griffth....hmmm...........Don't get me wrong he is a basterd, but the guy is made of win regardless -_-I just looked through it again and I don't think the monsters actually raped her. She was bleeding all over the place because that one creatures hands or whatever all ended in sharp nails and all that, but it was when one of them was about to get her that Femto came out and took her. However, even if they did rape her, I still think it would be worse with Griffith, sorta like the difference between being raped by a stranger and being raped by your father.

And no, she didn't enjoy it. She was crying and saying "No" and when she saw Guts she even said "Don't watch."

[Shikashi]

The people saying she enjoyed it are fucktards, c'mon... Just because dudes wouldn't mind being raped by a hot girl doesn't mean girls like being raped by hot guys... or something.

[Zephos]

The people saying she enjoyed it are fucktards, c'mon... Just because dudes wouldn't mind being raped by a hot girl doesn't mean girls like being raped by hot guys... or something.

Who the hell enjoys being raped?
Thats an oxymoron.

[Shikashi]

Hmm, I guess I would, if the girl was hot enough. Not some ugly whoe though, I would feel violated then.

[Wuzzman]

Naw, just a theory. I don't think Caska hates Griffth enough that if she regains her memory she want to go Berserk on Griffth the second she meets him. Though I would love to see her get pay back for what he did to her, I don't think Caska thinks Griffth is in the wrong. We won't know till she regains her memory, but the manga has been hinting that Caska character was fucked for life ever since she was jealous of Gutts because Griffth liked and wanted him(no homo). Its like one of those cases when wives stay with their abusive husbands out of some twisted sense of love born from low self worth.

[Zephos]

Hmm, I guess I would, if the girl was hot enough. Not some ugly whoe though, I would feel violated then.

No, you would not enjoy getting raped.
Do you know what an oxymoron is?

[Sigbin-Puti]

well there are plenty of masochists out there who love to be abused.

i hope caska doesn't become someone like sando.

[Locksmith]

I think that it clearly shows through the reactions of Casca's body that she felt pleasure at being raped, physically. However, I think this only added to the shame and humiliation she felt. I don't think she will ever fully recover. If she did I think she would hate Griffith all the more because he made her physically enjoy the worst thing that ever happened to her.

[Zephos]

I think that it clearly shows through the reactions of Casca's body that she felt pleasure at being raped, physically. However, I think this only added to the shame and humiliation she felt. I don't think she will ever fully recover. If she did I think she would hate Griffith all the more because he made her physically enjoy the worst thing that ever happened to her.

The erogenous zones don't stop working just because the host is unwilling.
Feeling physical pleasure is entirely seperate from the mental state during rape.

[Lucifer]

i hope caska doesn't become someone like sando.

I loled at this post.

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

No one who has been raped would want to go back to the person who raped them. Caska was with Gutts when she got raped by Femto. There is no question of her ever going back to that bastard.

She gave up on Griffith when she slept with Gutts when he came back after leaving them. The only thing that saved Griffith when he forced herself on Caska(in the caravan) was pity. She felt too ashamed to even break him when he was that weak.

What is to be seen is if she will go back to Gutts, even though he is willing to take her back, she will feel too violated to be his wife/girlfriend -_-

[Sigbin-Puti]

caska could deny all that happened since griffith got his human body back. and caska would think of femto as a separate entity from griffith. most rape victims do tend to be in state of denial after the incident wish for things to be back to normal.

[Locksmith]

The erogenous zones don't stop working just because the host is unwilling.
Feeling physical pleasure is entirely seperate from the mental state during rape.

That was my point.

[Shikashi]

No, you would not enjoy getting raped.
Do you know what an oxymoron is?
No, no I don't.

[Segan]

No, no I don't. Oxymoron means contradiction.

And raping means to sexually abuse a person against his/her will. If you don't want to have sex and you are still being forced to, then that's rape.

As you can see, it's totally contradictive to say you like being raped. Rape is defined by unwillingness.

[Shikashi]

Ah... makes sense, but you know what I meant. If I found myself bound and gagged by a good-looking women I wouldn't mind doing her. Even if she kidnapped me or some shit.

Too much OT though.

[Segan]

Ah... makes sense, but you know what I meant. If I found myself bound and gagged by a good-looking women I wouldn't mind doing her. Even if she kidnapped me or some shit.

Too much OT though.

Even if I knew what you meant, it has nothing to do with rape.

Nothing.

And yeah, too much OT.

But it's hard to stay on topic. I've no clue what kind of upgrade Ganishka is going to get.

[Muk]

aren't we due for a chapter or so? nothing was anounced that it'd go into a longer period or was there?

[Shikashi]

Actually... eh, Miura didn't have a date on the last page, it just said 'til next time... oh dear, I think he screwed us.

[Muk]

ohh that might take a while

especially with what is suppose to come

a big as fight and what not ...

maybe if we are lucky it only takes him a month to finish drawing it

i really hope he isn't doing another large scale human war with all the soldier and pike men and other objects

[AbnormallyNormal]

i am hoping we get it tomorrow, i think ganishka will be on a par with griffith actually, he has to be, or else it would be pointlessly boring. i just want to see ganishka cause mayhem and chaos everywhere, and scare griffith even a little

[Segan]

does anyone have EG's scanlation of 292 as direct download?

[Zephos]

i am hoping we get it tomorrow, i think ganishka will be on a par with griffith actually, he has to be, or else it would be pointlessly boring. i just want to see ganishka cause mayhem and chaos everywhere, and scare griffith even a little

Skull Knight.com has no threda or preview for the next chapter, there's no way its coming out tomorrow.

[Muk]

does anyone have EG's scanlation of 292 as direct download?

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MOLBEWDO

here you go

[Sess]

I think that it clearly shows through the reactions of Casca's body that she felt pleasure at being raped, physically. However, I think this only added to the shame and humiliation she felt. I don't think she will ever fully recover. If she did I think she would hate Griffith all the more because he made her physically enjoy the worst thing that ever happened to her.
The erogenous zones don't stop working just because the host is unwilling.
Feeling physical pleasure is entirely seperate from the mental state during rape.

Zephos: You must watch a lot of hentai... it doesn't work that way dude.

Locksmith: Maybe that's what Miura's intentions were, but if so then that's pretty disappointing. Like I said to Zephos, it doesn't work that way. Notice that monsters were holding onto her, digging their nails in and making her bleed. Griffith himself was making her bleed as well. The kind of person that gets pleasure from that would likely be seriously damaged due to some sort of traumatic abuse in their past. This would be the type of mental damage where a person seeks out to repeat the abuse that traumatized them in the first place.

So while your point, Locksmith, is indeed compelling, I think it is unrealistic for Caska's character. Miura is usually very good at making character's reasoning, emotions, and motivation realistic. Farneze, for example, had a very traumatic childhood and it showed in her personality as she grew up. Everything about her twisted reasoning and emotional fragility was explained by her back story. But Caska's back story was relatively average. Grew up poor, sold off, nearly raped but saved by Griffith, made strong, made a leader, and finally she found someone to love, Guts. Where in that back story does it explain why she would, even unwillingly, take pleasure from being thrown around and hurt by disgusting demons as they rip apart and kill everyone she ever cared about and then raped and bloodied by one of the two people on Earth with whom she felt the safest? Like I said, if that was Miura's intention, then I'm pretty disappointed.

[Pintsize]

Just finished rereading all of Berserk, and it was just as good the second time around.

Though I'm curious to see what the Emperor's new upgrade is, I really just want to see Elfhelm.

[Sigbin-Puti]

yeah its about time we see elfhiem. but i rather have the grudge between griffith and ganishka wrap up.

[Segan]

EG's scanlation made much more sense than FH's version. The "man-made Behelith" is not just a copy of the original Behelith, but has been built to access a power source very similar to what Apostles receive when being reborn.

Anyone remember, that the God Hand who give power are from the astral plane? It was said that the interior of an Apostle is connected to the astral plane. There you got your source!

I hope Miura makes something incredibly awesome with Ganishka. We need a worthy opponent for Griffith already.

[AbnormallyNormal]

griffith's worthy opponent = gutts inner wolf beast

[Segan]

griffith's worthy opponent = gutts inner wolf beastNah, that beast would have still to grow a lot before even thinking about opposing Griffith for real.

[Pintsize]

I think Guts is going to get a powerup at Elfhelm or soon after, or he simply won't be able to compete. If it's a spiritual boost, I can easily see the wolf raising that further.

[KLoWn]

What's the latest scanned chapter out?

[AbnormallyNormal]

292... we dont know when 293 comes out

[KLoWn]

292... we dont know when 293 comes out
Aight thanx.

[tygah]

Where can I go for direct download volumes? I'm at volume 23 and my source (komics-live) locked me out. Can any one help me?

[Elijah Snow]

Mangatraders.com- This is a solid site.

If you use IRC, Lurk is the best place to get these as well.

[tygah]

Thanks for the mangatraders tip. It helped out alot.

[~L~]

I just started this two days ago, and i'm ploughing through the chapters like mad. I'm now on chapter 189. :nuts I have to say it got really good during the whole griffith flashback arc.

[Sess]

I just started this two days ago, and i'm ploughing through the chapters like mad. I'm now on chapter 189. :nuts I have to say it got really good during the whole griffith flashback arc.Welcome to the fold!

[~L~]

Welcome to the fold!
lol thanks! i wonder if i should slow down....once i catch up i'll be waiting just like you guys. :cry

[AbnormallyNormal]

you can always go back over old chapters that you liked

[hcheng02]

I just have a question regarding the lost chapter, where Griffith meets the Idea of Evil. The Idea of Evil is supposed to be God, which was created by all the negative unconcious thoughts of humanity. However, one of the things I noticed when I read through myths and such is that generally there is an underlying assumption that good is stronger than evil. Do you think there is an unconscious manifestation of good in the Berserk world?

[AbnormallyNormal]

I just have a question regarding the lost chapter, where Griffith meets the Idea of Evil. The Idea of Evil is supposed to be God, which was created by all the negative unconcious thoughts of humanity. However, one of the things I noticed when I read through myths and such is that generally there is an underlying assumption that good is stronger than evil. Do you think there is an unconscious manifestation of good in the Berserk world?

maybe its nature itself? there seems to be a very clear pro-pagan stream of thought, with flora and schierke's philosophies aligning themselves with both skull knight and black swordsman.

[Legendarywun]

I just started this manga...Im following the anime until the episodes are done and then i will continue with the manga...which chapters does it pick up from?

[yo586]

I just have a question regarding the lost chapter, where Griffith meets the Idea of Evil. The Idea of Evil is supposed to be God, which was created by all the negative unconcious thoughts of humanity. However, one of the things I noticed when I read through myths and such is that generally there is an underlying assumption that good is stronger than evil. Do you think there is an unconscious manifestation of good in the Berserk world?

I am pretty sure this is the reason that Miura took out that chapter, and think it would be a little ridiculous if there was an Idea of Good introduced later. Maybe he could pull it off.

[Zephos]

I just started this manga...Im following the anime until the episodes are done and then i will continue with the manga...which chapters does it pick up from?

Don't do this. Very bad idea. Read the entire manga, not just the stuff not covered by the anime.
Mainly becasue of lots of important little details will be missed.
The anime has a different tone and pace than the manga too, you'll feel really awkward just suddenly picking it up after the point the anime "ends".

[Legendarywun]

Don't do this. Very bad idea. Read the entire manga, not just the stuff not covered by the anime.
Mainly becasue of lots of important little details will be missed.
The anime has a different tone and pace than the manga too, you'll feel really awkward just suddenly picking it up after the point the anime "ends".

Yeah thats what i thought...So im on chapter 9 and im wondering, when will it kick up a notch?

[Zephos]

Yeah thats what i thought...So im on chapter 9 and im wondering, when will it kick up a notch?

The first 3 books are kind of sucky and different next to the rest.
Its like a.....pilot for lack of a better word.
Once Gutt's flashback starts it rapidly gets better with every new chapter.

[Segan]

From my point of view, the first kick-up happens, when the Behelith at the end of vol. 2 is being introduced. From there on it got better and better, then again another substantial kick-up when 15y Guts appears.

[Sigbin-Puti]

lol vol 4 really shocked me poor guts.

[AbnormallyNormal]

i thought the first chapters were fucking awesome. this manga owns from not just first chapter but first PANEL. i mean it begins with him fucking some demon woman lol pure ownage in every way. then when he slays the snake apostle, and then finds the BEHELIT and fights that crazy huge apostle, slaughtering tons of humans along the way... and then warped into god hand dimension, the pre-flashback chapters fucking own

[Legendarywun]

Chapter 56 and im loving it...this manga is success beyond a doubt. I mean the story line is just fantastic. One of the most mature manga's ive read in a while..even the sex scenes have a meaning lol. I have one more question though..which chapter does the flashback end in? No spoilers, just the chapter...

[AbnormallyNormal]

i think its like chap 160, 170 or there abouts

[Legendarywun]

i think its like chap 160, 170 or there abouts

Ooo thats a pretty big flashback there. Thanks Lackinglack i mean AN

[AbnormallyNormal]

yeah its the biggest arc pretty much.... which is kinda cool, cuz thats the opposite of most storylines, its funny how after that "flashback arc" ends it goes back to the beginning, its really disorienting at first

[Segan]

You can't really be disoriented after the flashback ends, considering Guts' design becomes the one we've seen first when starting the series...

[~L~]

Well since i had the privilege of reading all the chapters in one go, i don't really know how this goes, so does anybody know when the next chapter is released?

also, what is the main consensus about Griffith? Does everybody see him as a villain? From what i've read so far, after his reincarnation, he doesn't seem to be doing anything bad D:....well so far anyways. The only one evil thing he did was when he sacrificed his band of hawks to ascend....>_>;; but after what he went through, i find it hard to hate him either. <_<;; his torture was f**k up. :mad In fact, i'm still reeling from the shock and hate and pain when i read what had happened to him. :cry

[AbnormallyNormal]

Well since i had the privilege of reading all the chapters in one go, i don't really know how this goes, so does anybody know when the next chapter is released?

also, what is the main consensus about Griffith? Does everybody see him as a villain? From what i've read so far, after his reincarnation, he doesn't seem to be doing anything bad D:....well so far anyways. The only one evil thing he did was when he sacrificed his band of hawks to ascend....>_>;; but after what he went through, i find it hard to hate him either. <_<;; his torture was f**k up. :mad In fact, i'm still reeling from the shock and hate and pain when i read what had happened to him. :cry

nope noone knows when 293 comes out but probably in another week and a half or something. griffith raped casca? that was pretty horrible. its his own fault he was tortured, because he fucked that princess for no apparent reason. griffith is a sociopath how can you like him, he always was and still is, he is still a god hand, aka a DEMON KING, aka not a good guy

[Segan]

Well since i had the privilege of reading all the chapters in one go, i don't really know how this goes, so does anybody know when the next chapter is released?

also, what is the main consensus about Griffith? Does everybody see him as a villain? From what i've read so far, after his reincarnation, he doesn't seem to be doing anything bad D:....well so far anyways. The only one evil thing he did was when he sacrificed his band of hawks to ascend....>_>;; but after what he went through, i find it hard to hate him either. <_<;; his torture was f**k up. :mad In fact, i'm still reeling from the shock and hate and pain when i read what had happened to him. :cryI'm not sure if you were aware of it in the Original Hawks arc, but Griffith always put a shining, "proper-man" facade in front of outstanders.

The impression of him not doing anything really bad depends on the fact that he rarely does the dirty work by himself.
Examples:
- Murder of the king's brother and nephew
- Murder of henchmen that worked for him
- Murder of the Queen and ministers
- Giving command to kill Flora <---- most obvious sign that Griffith is not a good guy at all

And also, Griffith's the commander of guys, who for the large part are man-eaters (Apostles).

A true hero doesn't have that dark a side.

Edit: And let's not forget the most obvious sign of Griffith being the "bad guy"...

Right, him being a God Hand. Raping Casca. Sacrificing 1000 most loyal men for a single personal desire.

[~L~]

nope noone knows when 293 comes out but probably in another week and a half or something. griffith raped casca? that was pretty horrible. its his own fault he was tortured, because he fucked that princess for no apparent reason. griffith is a sociopath how can you like him, he always was and still is, he is still a god hand, aka a DEMON KING, aka not a good guy
Nah, i don't see him a good guy of course, but i see him more as the main antagonist and not a pure evil villain that's all. It could be like what Segan has said, in that he hasn't dirty his hands to commit the evil deeds himself. :amuse Yes, the rape was horrible and he slept with the princess for comfort cause he was saddened and depressed that gutts left the band.

I'm not sure if you were aware of it in the Original Hawks arc, but Griffith always put a shining, "proper-man" facade in front of outstanders.

The impression of him not doing anything really bad depends on the fact that he rarely does the dirty work by himself.
Examples:
- Murder of the king's brother and nephew
- Murder of henchmen that worked for him
- Murder of the Queen and ministers
- Giving command to kill Flora <---- most obvious sign that Griffith is not a good guy at all

And also, Griffith's the commander of guys, who for the large part are man-eaters (Apostles).

A true hero doesn't have that dark a side.

Edit: And let's not forget the most obvious sign of Griffith being the "bad guy"...

Right, him being a God Hand. Raping Casca. Sacrificing 1000 most loyal men for a single personal desire.
who is Flora again? :sag sorry, i read them so fast, too many names to remember at one time...:sag

Yeah, that's why i said aside from that whole sacrificing thing. :amuse My first impression of him during the Griffith flashback arc was that he was a man who would do anything for his dream. He certainly had questionable methods no doubt. But i still didn't see him as a completely evil person, which could be the reasons you stated. Manipulative and cunning, yes. Then of course the whole path of self destruction happened and he did the unforgivable by being reborn as a God Hand. I don't deny that from his birth as the God Hand to the time he got reincarnated, he certainly wasn't portrayed as a good guy.

I think another reason why i don't see him as a real evil villain, is because the current enemies give off a much more evil vibe. It almost feels like he is saving the people from a more evil force. of course, i'm only taking into account of what we've seen so far since his reincarnation. we have yet to see how it would turn out when/if griffith actually succeeds in taking his own country.

[AbnormallyNormal]

I think another reason why i don't see him as a real evil villain, is because the current enemies give off a much more evil vibe. It almost feels like he is saving the people from a more evil force. of course, i'm only taking into account of what we've seen so far since his reincarnation. we have yet to see how it would turn out when/if griffith actually succeeds in taking his own country.

thats only an illusion, its part of the tragedy of berzerk that "hope" is actually the greatest evil

[Segan]

At the moment it actually seems that Griffith is saving people.

But one has to wonder why Griffith takes efforts to win the alliances within the Holy Sphere and the Pope himself as his allies. It's not like he needs to, right? He never needed to attack the Kushans when Midland wasn't even directly threatened by the Kushans right back then.

He clearly doesn't intend to stop at Midland, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered to deal with the incidents around Vritannis.

And by the way, Flora is the elder witch from the forests (appeared around vol. 24 first, if I remember correctly).

[Elijah Snow]

At the moment it actually seems that Griffith is saving people.

But one has to wonder why Griffith takes efforts to win the alliances within the Holy Sphere and the Pope himself as his allies. It's not like he needs to, right? He never needed to attack the Kushans when Midland wasn't even directly threatened by the Kushans right back then.

He clearly doesn't intend to stop at Midland, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered to deal with the incidents around Vritannis.

And by the way, Flora is the elder witch from the forests (appeared around vol. 24 first, if I remember correctly).

He's doing it because it makes it much easier to accomplish his goal. You would think things would go smoother with having the approval of the pope...

[Segan]

Things going smoother when it doesn't even matters?

[Muk]

it's about formalities

its one thing to be a tyrann

another to rise to power in the "proper" rite and ritual

people will see him as a savior instead of being a tyran like the kushkans are right now

a "hero" who rose to power in the most proper way

Griffith isn't going to stop at midland, once his "kingdom" is established he's going to expand it

taking it far far maybe through his whole continent

but first he needs a kingdom to start at

and old midland is just the perfect starting target to begin with

[Elijah Snow]

Things going smoother when it doesn't even matters?

It matters as it's the easiest and quickest route. What better way to get control than have the holy church backing you up and having the love of the people?

I'm not saying he has to, but Griffith realizes that it's the easiest and most practical way.

[Wuzzman]

Well has a God Hand, his ability to appear in this world came from the "hope" of idiot humans wanting to be saved from their short and desperate lives. Same with the other god hand who shows up when people are having orgies. I'm guessing that sense of hope and worship of him that comes from being perceived as a savior is probably what allows him to have and even increase is power.

[Muk]

that is right, "griffith" materialized himself into this world as "hope"

that is why humans look at him for hope and cannot see the long red trail he leaves behind

they are truly blinded by his "light"

[Sess]

I wonder though... is he really playing the nice guy just because he thinks it's the easiest route, or does he really want to be perceived that way? Sure, his ultimate goal has always been to have his own kingdom, but how did he envision that kingdom: one based on crushing power and fear or one based on acknowledgment and respect? Griffith started out as nothing. Maybe in his mind he wants to feel that he earned his kingdom, that he proved to the people that he was worthy?

[Wuzzman]

He has a army of Apostles, 1 could easily solo an army of normal men. If he wanted to he have could take midland by force no question asked. Which is the easiest path probably since he risked nothing if he did. His path to kingship is the most perverse. Having the both the Pope and the princess on his side, appearing in the dreams of innocent children. Having no real reason to cover the dark trail he leaves behind, this is probably worse then if he just told every Apostle to start subjugating the population. Now the people need Griffith, without Griffith there is no midland, so even if Griffith were to die, the people will keep bringing him back.

[Drizzt]

You know... I've been thinking and (this being off of another tangent), but what if Guts is suppose to evolve? You know, that fish that jumps from the river, begins to learn to breath the air of the sky. And he continues to do that.. like he's suppose to keep evolving until he's human?

I mean, I was re-reading berserk vol 13, and I happen to glimpse something that the god-hands said about Guts, that a jumping fish can't change the flow of the river. And I was looking about that, so.. a human can. And I was thinking if Guts, is the jumping fish.. what if he evolves from being another fish in the sea.. another animal as you will, to become an intelligent human being? To be enlightened as you will.

If you look at it... Gut's life is always about struggle. Struggle at birth, Struggle of acceptance, Struggle of pain. He continuously struggle against what fate has given him. Isn't what species of our planet do? They struggle to survive, adapt and evolve to better their species to survive?

Now thinking of that context in just for a man, Guts, couldn't he be the revolutionary that allows the people step from the path of the "animal" to the path of "human".

I mean, he entering the unknown territories of the astral and physical. Isn't that how fish became land-dwellers? They jump out of the sea, unto land because it was better for them to survive? But, nuff about the fish comparison.

My point is, that Guts, need to evolve in order to fight Griffith. Griffith as a god-hand can easily kill Guts if he wanted to. The Witch, elves, berserker armor and his personified demon dog isn't going to help Guts overcome Griffith. He'll need something - an idea - a representation of what it means to be a TRUE HUMAN, to fight Griffith and defeat him.

An Idea to fight an Idea.

I think that's how it'll go, whichever the idea can sway the hearts of man, into following. Guts has that idea, and those that are around him, felt it and, hell even, Griffith for a while lost sight of his dream because of it.

There something about Guts that despite his behavior, looks and attitude. He has sort of something that allow people depend and believe in him. All the current member of his band has seen it, and that's why they follow him. You can see it, from the first volume of the series - Guts has something that makes people want to ask for his help. You can see it in those volumes with the people he interacts with, like Gatson would've follow him to the ends of the earth.

Judeau confined with him about his relationship between Griffith, the "core member" of Hawk, and the rest of the Hawk.

And don't forget about that scene in volume 7, where Guts is alone at the hilltops looking down at the lights of the band of hawk. Those lights representing dream of people, engulf within Griffith's flame. But, not Guts nor Casca after she followed him.

I believe, while that scene was foreshadowing whom were going to die at the eclipse and whom was going to survive, I also believe that it a foreshadowing of another sort.

An alternative.

Guts.

[Segan]

You know... I've been thinking and (this being off of another tangent), but what if Guts is suppose to evolve? You know, that fish that jumps from the river, begins to learn to breath the air of the sky. And he continues to do that.. like he's suppose to keep evolving until he's human?

I mean, I was re-reading berserk vol 13, and I happen to glimpse something that the god-hands said about Guts, that a jumping fish can't change the flow of the river. And I was looking about that, so.. a human can. And I was thinking if Guts, is the jumping fish.. what if he evolves from being another fish in the sea.. another animal as you will, to become an intelligent human being? To be enlightened as you will.

If you look at it... Gut's life is always about struggle. Struggle at birth, Struggle of acceptance, Struggle of pain. He continuously struggle against what fate has given him. Isn't what species of our planet do? They struggle to survive, adapt and evolve to better their species to survive?

Now thinking of that context in just for a man, Guts, couldn't he be the revolutionary that allows the people step from the path of the "animal" to the path of "human".

I mean, he entering the unknown territories of the astral and physical. Isn't that how fish became land-dwellers? They jump out of the sea, unto land because it was better for them to survive? But, nuff about the fish comparison.

My point is, that Guts, need to evolve in order to fight Griffith. Griffith as a god-hand can easily kill Guts if he wanted to. The Witch, elves, berserker armor and his personified demon dog isn't going to help Guts overcome Griffith. He'll need something - an idea - a representation of what it means to be a TRUE HUMAN, to fight Griffith and defeat him.

An Idea to fight an Idea.

I think that's how it'll go, whichever the idea can sway the hearts of man, into following. Guts has that idea, and those that are around him, felt it and, hell even, Griffith for a while lost sight of his dream because of it.

There something about Guts that despite his behavior, looks and attitude. He has sort of something that allow people depend and believe in him. All the current member of his band has seen it, and that's why they follow him. You can see it, from the first volume of the series - Guts has something that makes people want to ask for his help. You can see it in those volumes with the people he interacts with, like Gatson would've follow him to the ends of the earth.

Judeau confined with him about his relationship between Griffith, the "core member" of Hawk, and the rest of the Hawk.

And don't forget about that scene in volume 7, where Guts is alone at the hilltops looking down at the lights of the band of hawk. Those lights representing dream of people, engulf within Griffith's flame. But, not Guts nor Casca after she followed him.

I believe, while that scene was foreshadowing whom were going to die at the eclipse and whom was going to survive, I also believe that it a foreshadowing of another sort.

An alternative.

Guts.What do I say to that...I find your thoughts quite consistent and appealing.

But to be concrete, exactly what would Guts' evolution look like, or rather, what effects would his evolution have in relation to Griffith and the confrontation with him?

It occurred to me that it might look very similar to what happened to Munsu in "Shin Angyo Onshi". I'm not talking about circumstances or exactly alike powers, but rather about the principle behind it: Guts gets something that enables him to "touch" Griffith and hurt him. A weapon (potentially the Dragonslayer) or an ability (or immunity) gained through an incident.

Damn, I wish I knew what plans Miura has for Guts to confront Griffith.

[Wuzzman]

Griffith defeat must be total. Not just a hack and slash, but something so horrible that the people know who Griffith really is. Well if Gutts were to evolve, then to what extent he would need to evolve? Gutts must evolve to represent the world. Its struggle, its pain, happiness, and joy. Even its rage. He must represent in a way that presents him self as a model for what humanity really is. Having been through all things, he must be the one who destroys the false savior. Because Griffith represents the absence of pain, of struggle, of any thing that torments the soul. He is the embodiment of a world without effort, a hero with no scars. Which is ironic since his company is the bringer of all the things that the people thinks he takes away.

[Drizzt]

What do I say to that...I find your thoughts quite consistent and appealing.

But to be concrete, exactly what would Guts' evolution look like, or rather, what effects would his evolution have in relation to Griffith and the confrontation with him?

It occurred to me that it might look very similar to what happened to Munsu in "Shin Angyo Onshi". I'm not talking about circumstances or exactly alike powers, but rather about the principle behind it: Guts gets something that enables him to "touch" Griffith and hurt him. A weapon (potentially the Dragonslayer) or an ability (or immunity) gained through an incident.

Damn, I wish I knew what plans Miura has for Guts to confront Griffith.

My speculation is that Guts' path would be hidden from the threads that ties down to the idea of evil. I want to say that Guts will gain the ability to unaffected by the manipulations of God of Evil. I want to point back to volume 7 again, in the scene of the hilltops.

In that scene, Guts is in a juxtaposition with the band of Hawks. He doesn't have a fire like others. He doesn't have a dreams, like others. He have comradeship with the rest of the band and beginning to leave the band to find his own path. Then, Casca comes, and being tending his wounds, notice that she too lack a fire. Making two people without flames and such.

For a moment, in that peace of darkness, Guts sounds intelligent, he has deep thoughts about his himself, about Griffith and the band of the Hawk. In those moments, he feels compassion for his men, something that Griffith never did, only pretended.

But, what he see is his sword, the tool that he uses to struggle. He's confident that he'll survive, and he does. He struggle against hardship, he struggle for his own doubt and seeking of being warm if but a while.

But during that scene he said this:

"And maybe be more than anything, I've always tried to leave the most essential reason for fightin' up to other people."

He was always struggling on behalf of another, he resolved from that point to forge his own reason to struggle for own self. Once, he chose to walk for himself, look how everyone began looking at Guts, in the aftermath of the war.

Look how he was able to defeat Griffith with his resolve, of never bending his life to anyone and was able to leave the band of the Hawk to find his own path and dreams.

I believe that's how he'll defeat Griffith again - he gain that resolve that will be unbreakable... that path that one doesn't need anything to tell you what to do or how to live your life. One would be in charge of one's own destiny, not some idea of an evil god or whatever those god-hand were sprouting.

His spirit will overcome the limitation of his human form.


Griffith defeat must be total. Not just a hack and slash, but something so horrible that the people know who Griffith really is. Well if Gutts were to evolve, then to what extent he would need to evolve? Gutts must evolve to represent the world. Its struggle, its pain, happiness, and joy. Even its rage. He must represent in a way that presents him self as a model for what humanity really is. Having been through all things, he must be the one who destroys the false savior. Because Griffith represents the absence of pain, of struggle, of any thing that torments the soul. He is the embodiment of a world without effort, a hero with no scars. Which is ironic since his company is the bringer of all the things that the people thinks he takes away.

Exactly, that's what his evolution show present to the world. What one has to endure to it really means to be human - to fully live your life. And the spirit that no matter what, you won't let anyone take you off that path. Because the moment that you do, and you let someone else do the reasoning, you'll get Griffith and his false hope.

And Guts is the true light, the true hope. Because he's the struggler.

[Sasori]

I enjoyed reading the last couple of posts. It just makes me love even more how deep Berserk really is.

[Sess]

You know... I've been thinking and (this being off of another tangent), but what if Guts is suppose to evolve? You know, that fish that jumps from the river, begins to learn to breath the air of the sky. And he continues to do that.. like he's suppose to keep evolving until he's human?

[....]

I believe, while that scene was foreshadowing whom were going to die at the eclipse and whom was going to survive, I also believe that it a foreshadowing of another sort.

An alternative.

Guts.

What do I say to that...I find your thoughts quite consistent and appealing.

But to be concrete, exactly what would Guts' evolution look like, or rather, what effects would his evolution have in relation to Griffith and the confrontation with him?

It occurred to me that it might look very similar to what happened to Munsu in "Shin Angyo Onshi". I'm not talking about circumstances or exactly alike powers, but rather about the principle behind it: Guts gets something that enables him to "touch" Griffith and hurt him. A weapon (potentially the Dragonslayer) or an ability (or immunity) gained through an incident.

Damn, I wish I knew what plans Miura has for Guts to confront Griffith.

Griffith defeat must be total. Not just a hack and slash, but something so horrible that the people know who Griffith really is. Well if Gutts were to evolve, then to what extent he would need to evolve? Gutts must evolve to represent the world. Its struggle, its pain, happiness, and joy. Even its rage. He must represent in a way that presents him self as a model for what humanity really is. Having been through all things, he must be the one who destroys the false savior. Because Griffith represents the absence of pain, of struggle, of any thing that torments the soul. He is the embodiment of a world without effort, a hero with no scars. Which is ironic since his company is the bringer of all the things that the people thinks he takes away.

Here's the problem I have with this evolution idea. One of the things I've always liked about Berserk is the lack of powerups. In so many shonen manga, each time the protagonist comes to a new hurdle they get some sort of powerup. They almost get killed, have a little conversation in their head, scream, and then all of a sudden they're stronger than the bad guy and they kick some ass.

Berserk isn't like that at all. After 33 volumes, what big changes have happened to Guts? He has a bigger sword and new armor. The Berserk prototype came out in 1988 and it's now almost 2008. Twenty years and all that's changed is a big bad ass sword and some trippy armor.

Yeah, the evolution idea is interesting, but it has a strong air of shonen powerup.

Here's a question: Just how powerful is Griffith in his reborn state? Yes, he's a Godhand and all that, but there must be some limitations on being reborn the way he was. Even though apostles and others feel compelled to follow him, besides being incredibly strong, perhaps he is more or less human-like? Sure, Zodd saw him as powerful enough to be his master, but hey, Guts fairs pretty well against Zodd too, so I don't think that's an adequite benchmark to use in an argument saying that the way Guts is now he has no chance against Griffith.

In fact, I've noticed that in many arguments about how Guts is far too weak to win right now, he is often compared to the Godhand directly. And while I agree that Guts doesn't seem powerful enough to even touch the Godhand, who says he has to? Maybe Miura has no intention of having Guts fight the Godhand. Perhaps in being reborn, Griffith has separated himself from the Godhand and must fight on his own. It could be that Gut will eventually fight Griffith directly and kill him, and then the Godhand will just wait patiently for a new fifth member. Maybe this is a pattern that has repeated again and again throughout the ages.

[Muk]

You know after reading you guys thought on evolution and what not

something very interesting came to me

Ganishka said that the apostle in him says that Griffith is something otherworldly something that cannot be touched, hence why he needs his own "evolution"

But to the humans, whether they can see the otherworld or not, they aren't something otherworldly, they are within the grasp of humans, for they are born from human.

So the idea of Gutts slowly evolving into something completely human, one who struggles all his live, maybe that alone will be enough to touch griffith.

griffith who's so otherworldly in power be easily touched by his own creator, humans.

that may also be the reason why guts never truly got any upgrades, as he doesn't really need them to fight griffith

i think the only guts needs to overcome now is that which can take and tear away his humanity, his berserker rage, that which grants him power to slay anything but griffith

[Segan]

@Sess: The evolution we are speaking of has nothing to do with power-ups. I'm sure you noticed that.

Guts probably already has weapon to kill Griffith: his Dragonslayer. His weapon is stained with the remains of thousands over thousands ghosts and is almost an artifact of otherworldly properties. What he needs now is a way to deal with Griffith's powers. This is where the idea of evolution comes into play.
The question is:
Drag the god down into the mud or ascend up to the god in heaven? The way I see it, the first is more likely to happen.

Maybe some of you have followed "Shin Angyo Onshi" and have read the raws. Munsu is a skilled, but mortal human. His opponent is Aji Tae, some sort of demon with high-level supernatural powers who kills beings with a mere thought. And yet Munsu is the only one to fight and defeat Aji Tae on equal grounds.
Why?
Because through very special circumstances, Munsu became completely immune against his powers, that's how he was able to fight him.

On another topic, about Griffith's power: If I were to speculate, the extent of his raw power would be somewhere between a God Hand and a mage in the prime. Stronger than any magical beings in the world, but not completely out of reach.
I'm basing this mainly on Skull Knight's comment about why Griffith commanded Flora's execution.
But as I've implied before, I don't think Griffith will be beaten in a contest of power, if anything.

[Wuzzman]

Gutts has been having powerups since he was introduced. From running around with a block of iron called a sword, to the dragonslayer, to the dragonslayer that can piss on evil beings. But Segan is right, Gutts will not become a walking god. he can not kill Griffith in a feat of raw power. No Griffith will be brought down to Gutts level, and Griffith almost their now that he has a human body. My guess is that Griffith must appear human for the humans to well follow him. That must cause a sacrifice of power of some sort or it wouldn't be necessary for Griffith to order a Flora dead. If Griffith felt that Gutts in his current state could harm him every Apostle in a 400 mile radius would try to kill him probably. For now Griffith is human enough to find Flora a threat, but not human enough to think Gutts can touch him. When Gutts finally does fight Griffith that will change.

[Legendarywun]

I enjoyed reading the last couple of posts. It just makes me love even more how deep Berserk really is.

Berserk is just plain logical...I mean, besides the raping monsters, every thing that is done is throughly explained in a mature sense. Thats what i like about it the most. Your never left wondering. It also ignites some of the most common issues in life. Honestly, its something else.

[Wuzzman]

Berserk is just plain logical...I mean, besides the raping monsters, every thing that is done is throughly explained in a mature sense. Thats what i like about it the most. Your never left wondering. It also ignites some of the most common issues in life. Honestly, its something else.

monsters want pussy too!

[Legendarywun]

monsters want pussy too!

But why Caska?!?!....I know why, but i hate those monster tentacles and Griffith because of that...

[AbnormallyNormal]

femto raping casca at the same time gutts loses half an arm and an eye is basically the climax of this story so far

[Segan]

Very true. But I expect a more devastating climax when Miura concludes the Guts/Griffith relationship.

[Elijah Snow]

Very true. But I expect a more devastating climax when Miura concludes the Guts/Griffith relationship.

Can there possibly be one? I can't fathom what could be more intense, but I'm sure Miura has something planned.

[Segan]

Sure, Guts ALWAYS gives an intense feeling when he acts, no matter what.

[Arishem]

Can there possibly be one? I can't fathom what could be more intense, but I'm sure Miura has something planned.

There's already a factor in place which could make for an even more tragic resolution: Guts' and Caska's child. He has already appeared to them in human form, and there is some potential for a relationship. We also know that the child has a direct connection with Griffith now. Guts may be forced to sacrifice him for the sake of his revenge. Hell, it would still be a terrible thing even if no connection was made between them.

This is besides the topic, but when I went through Berserk for the first time, I was struck by how similar Idea is to the Chaos Gods of 40k. They are entities that have been created by the negative emotions of sentient beings, and both influence the material to ensure that they continue to exist. Another similarity is that they both reside in dimensions of concepts, emotions, and ideas which are inaccessible to material beings under normal circumstances. I can't help but wonder if Miura was somehow inspired by them.

[AbnormallyNormal]

yeah i think the first climax dealt with relationship between lovers being completely destroyed, the second will deal with relationship between parent and child being completely destroyed

[Wuzzman]

Sure, Guts ALWAYS gives an intense feeling when he acts, no matter what.

If Caska was still sane, she say "berserker sex is the best sex"

[Zephos]

If Caska was still sane, she say "berserker sex is the best sex"

Do you basically try to derail every conversation with stupid sex jokes or what?

[Seiko]

Is there a release date for 293?

[Elijah Snow]

No known date atm

[Grimmjow]

i love reading these theories :amuse

[Sess]

Gutts has been having powerups since he was introduced. From running around with a block of iron called a sword, to the dragonslayer, to the dragonslayer that can piss on evil beings. But Segan is right, Gutts will not become a walking god. he can not kill Griffith in a feat of raw power. No Griffith will be brought down to Gutts level, and Griffith almost their now that he has a human body. My guess is that Griffith must appear human for the humans to well follow him. That must cause a sacrifice of power of some sort or it wouldn't be necessary for Griffith to order a Flora dead. If Griffith felt that Gutts in his current state could harm him every Apostle in a 400 mile radius would try to kill him probably. For now Griffith is human enough to find Flora a threat, but not human enough to think Gutts can touch him. When Gutts finally does fight Griffith that will change.

@Sess: The evolution we are speaking of has nothing to do with power-ups. I'm sure you noticed that.

Guts probably already has weapon to kill Griffith: his Dragonslayer. His weapon is stained with the remains of thousands over thousands ghosts and is almost an artifact of otherworldly properties. What he needs now is a way to deal with Griffith's powers. This is where the idea of evolution comes into play.
The question is:
Drag the god down into the mud or ascend up to the god in heaven? The way I see it, the first is more likely to happen.

Maybe some of you have followed "Shin Angyo Onshi" and have read the raws. Munsu is a skilled, but mortal human. His opponent is Aji Tae, some sort of demon with high-level supernatural powers who kills beings with a mere thought. And yet Munsu is the only one to fight and defeat Aji Tae on equal grounds.
Why?
Because through very special circumstances, Munsu became completely immune against his powers, that's how he was able to fight him.

On another topic, about Griffith's power: If I were to speculate, the extent of his raw power would be somewhere between a God Hand and a mage in the prime. Stronger than any magical beings in the world, but not completely out of reach.
I'm basing this mainly on Skull Knight's comment about why Griffith commanded Flora's execution.
But as I've implied before, I don't think Griffith will be beaten in a contest of power, if anything.
I guess I should have made this clear earlier, but I was using the term 'power-up' to refer to anything that would drastically change Guts' ability to fight. His sword getting embedded with the energy of slain monsters giving it more power against those monsters is a power-up. Munsu becoming immune to Aji Tae's powers, allowing him to fight a being that in every other way is his absolute superior, is a power-up. So in reference to people's past arguments that Griffith is on a level so far beyond all humans that Guts, even with his sword, does not stand a chance against him, anything that would elevate Guts or somehow grant him the ability to touch Griffith in that context would be a massive power-up. And unlike the previous power-ups which were more an extent of Guts' own strength and were spread out over twenty years of Miura's writing, I think such a massive power-up would be an affront to one of the main reasons we have so much respect for Guts, that he asks for nothing, is given nothing, and only fights and takes what he needs. He used his two hands, his sword, and his willpower to get him where he is today. He doesn't need some pussy power-up to put him on Griffith's level.

Segan, what you said about the Skull Knight's words in reference to Griffith's actual strength makes sense. It goes along with my insistence that in being reborn as a human, a powerful human, but still a human, Griffith relinquished a great deal of his power as a Godhand. Namely, I don't think you can really call him a God anymore. He is strong, perhaps the strongest being alive in the world, but he is not invulnerable, and Guts will get to him eventually.

[Segan]

Nah, if Guts gets the ability to touch Griffith, it would be a specific trait only applicable to the likes of Griffith (namely the God Hand), and it wouldn't change his strength/power properties in relation to anything else. After all, Guts always has been able to slay supernatural beings ever since he got that brand of his (yeah, Apostles ARE supernatural).

For example, Munsu may be able to fight a higher powerful immortal because of his specific trait, but unlike his opponent, he would be easily killed by a gun to the head. He doesn't even have any way of defending against conventional threats save for his skills and experience.

[Niko Bellic]

What chapters introduces that super cool berserk armour?

i just started reading btw.

[Elijah Snow]

What chapters introduces that super cool berserk armour?

i just started reading btw.

Not until vol.26. You have a long way to go.

[Zephos]

What chapters introduces that super cool berserk armour?

i just started reading btw.

This isn't a series to read for "awesome armor!!!1!1!".
You sure you know what your getting into?

[Niko Bellic]

A lot people say its the best manga so thats why im trying it and im enjoying it so far.

but yet im still on chapter 5 (which should really count has 20 chapters lol)

[Violent Man]

Another Berserk reader, excellent EXCELLENT! :kukuku

[Niko Bellic]

Is berserk still ongoing?

[AbnormallyNormal]

yes the next chapter will be 293. berzerk rules

[Niko Bellic]

im on chapter 13 now.

[Wuzzman]

Do you basically try to derail every conversation with stupid sex jokes or what?

hey no complaining it hasn't worked yet ^_^

[AbnormallyNormal]

im on chapter 13 now.

i like the early chapters... i think this manga only started to decrease quality once the flashbacks ended... the whole fake elf arc sucked balls in my opinion, and all these companions and friends of gutts are kinda reducing the GAR levels. but ganishka will redeem it, and the berzerker armor redeems it, as does zodd's appearances

[Pintsize]

Berserk isn't about GAR. :facepalm

Really, while the fake elf arc wasn't the best, I can hardly see how Gutts's companions haven't improved the story.

[Zephos]

Berserk isn't about GAR. :facepalm

Really, while the fake elf arc wasn't the best, I can hardly see how Gutts's companions haven't improved the story.

I wish I could pos rep you for this.

If your fandom motivation for Berserk was so shallow as Monster Truck thrills than by all means stop reading.

[Muk]

i don't see the fake elf arc as a "failure"

if nothing else it shows Gutts resolve to hunt down Apostles, even if they were children once

[AbnormallyNormal]

well i dont know about you guys but the main draw to me for berzerk is the testosterone pumping adrenaline stuff. like when there is true raw unadulterated combat, that rules, and berzerk does it extremely well.... most of the rest i consider filler

[Segan]

If you think about it, the Roshinu ("fake elf" sounds so terrible...) arc was awesome and also well built.

It connected the prophecy of the upcoming darkness with Guts in a "perverted" way (Guts is basically chasing the one who is said to bring darkness by slaying Apostles and instead is being chased as such) and introduced Farneze, which proves to be a crucial piece of importance in the plot. She was the one who captured Guts, she dealt with the heretics that Guts had to fight through, and most importantly: she was basically the one who made the party as it is now, save for Schierke, who joined later.
And the fight between Guts and Roshinu was also awesome. You've rarely seen him that intense. That one fight was the most difficult for Guts and he still came out on the top. His other fights in this arc were also masterpieces of work, too.

And on another note: Roshinu was this difficult, because her fighting style was totally incompatible with Guts' style. Flying, speed and power combined with that devastating whip of hers. Zodd was much easier to handle since his style was where Guts excelled.

Those who complain that the "fake elf" arc sucked need to realize that this was exactly the arc where Guts was at the absolute height as the "Black Swordsman" in that era, before he came to Albion.

[Sess]

i like the early chapters... i think this manga only started to decrease quality once the flashbacks ended... the whole fake elf arc sucked balls in my opinion, and all these companions and friends of gutts are kinda reducing the GAR levels. but ganishka will redeem it, and the berzerker armor redeems it, as does zodd's appearancesWow, I couldn't disagree with you more. Guts' new companions are awesome. The dynamic is amazing and all we learn about their past and how it influences their reactions and growth is great.

As for the fake Elf arc, I totally disagree again. Guts out on his own as a lone anti-hero type character, getting caught up in something he'd just assume avoid, but kicking major ass anyway. This arc is also the home of one of the most badass panels of all time:http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/161/berserk9tc9.jpg

Nah, if Guts gets the ability to touch Griffith, it would be a specific trait only applicable to the likes of Griffith (namely the God Hand), and it wouldn't change his strength/power properties in relation to anything else. After all, Guts always has been able to slay supernatural beings ever since he got that brand of his (yeah, Apostles ARE supernatural).

For example, Munsu may be able to fight a higher powerful immortal because of his specific trait, but unlike his opponent, he would be easily killed by a gun to the head. He doesn't even have any way of defending against conventional threats save for his skills and experience.Hmm, let me put it this way. Guts' brand helps him slay supernatural beings, so it is what I'd call a powerup, but he earned that one for sure. He had to go through what, to many people, might be the actual definition of hell to get it. And of course he had to escape that hell to put it to use.

Now some other powerup that allows Guts to touch the all powerful god Griffith (though I still think Griffith is now far from a god in his reborn form) would be just like the brand. It's something that allows Guts to attack something that he couldn't touch before. Well we did that already with the brand. I think Miura can think of something more original. Add to that everything Guts went through to get that brand, to justify that powerup... well how are you gonna do that again? I just keep thinking about it and I can't come up with a way for Guts to get another powerup that lets him touch even stronger beings that would be justified and still be original in the context of the story.

What I like about Miura's work is the story is always expanding, changing, evolving. It's always new and unexpected. Some powerup that gives Guts even greater access to powerful godlike entities doesn't seem new or unexpected. It also doesn't seem necessary. Guts doesn't need to touch the god hand. Guts doesn't need to fly into outer space and hurl asteroids at planets either. This isn't Dragon Ball Z. This isn't Naruto. This isn't Bleach. Powerups are not important. It's the story. If Miura decides a powerup fits in the logical progression of his story--like with the brand, the dragonslayer, and the armor--then that's great. However using a powerup to make the story, as in a means for Guts to finally fight Griffith, well... that just feels like plot-no-jutsu to me.

[Segan]

And I'm telling you, it's not power-up. A power-up is something that enhances your powers overall...

The Armor is a power-up. The brand, however, is not. The Dragonslayer isn't either. Tools are, by no means, power-ups. Sorry, but your comparisons are totally off...it just doesn't fit your argument.

[AbnormallyNormal]

i agree gutts was badass in that fight, but that arc was way too long and it barely connected to the main plot except at the very end with the holy knights finding him

[Legendarywun]

Thanks for ruining it for me you guys...fake elf pff. Its all good. So whens the next chapter coming out? Im on 250 but just wanna kno the rates of which these chapters are released.

On topic

Actually right after the flashback ended i was hoping he would get some companions. It kinda adds a little more to the story than just killing sprees...don't get me wrong those killing sprees are what makes Berserk what it is, but they seemed too dark and lonely sometimes. Whats pissing me off right now is the fact that Gutts is fucking always injured now a days, can't even use the GAR suit properly with out shitting blood.

[AbnormallyNormal]

i hope 293 comes out this friday but i dont know since it didnt have a date last chap
as gutts gets moer and more capable of combat there has to be a trade-off, otherwise he wouldnt be a tragic suffering anti-hero like he is

[Zephos]

well i dont know about you guys but the main draw to me for berzerk is the testosterone pumping adrenaline stuff. like when there is true raw unadulterated combat, that rules, and berzerk does it extremely well.... most of the rest i consider filler

How is it filler if it has a point?

[Niko Bellic]

when does he get the Berserk armor?

[Rapest]

Wow I finally caught up to the latest chapter...and now the waiting begins -__- I think it will be 10 years from now before we can even get to the point where Guts gets a chance to confront Griffith.

I hate that guy with a passion. He rapes Caska and betrays the Band that's bad enough. That proves he's ruthless, and I'm ok with that because he is the villain. But I hate how he's got so many dicksuckers lined up after he was reborn. I hate how he acts like he "supposed" to own those people. I can't wait to see how his facade comes tumbling down and Guts rapes his dream right in front of him.

[yo586]

For those of you who think Griffith is weakened in his human form: Do you think he can transform like other apostles to and from his apostle state? Would he still be weakened even after transforming?

I agree he is probably weaker as a human, but I think he is going to Ganishka's palace to be able to transform without anyone but his apostles seeing it. Once he is Femto again, I bet he'll be as powerful as ever.

i agree gutts was badass in that fight, but that arc was way too long and it barely connected to the main plot except at the very end with the holy knights finding him

I caught up to Berserk a bit after this arc, and reading it all at once felt completely complementary to the story. It brought forth alot of plot material that was to be expanded upon later, mostly Gutt's ridiculous rage developed in 2 years as the dark night. The fight wasn't long at all if you read it all in one night, its just plain awesome. I think Miura always crafts his stories in a way that its better to read a volume or two at once, its just so hard to not read the new chapters.

[Niko Bellic]

When does the flashback end.

Im on chapter 36.

[Taleran]

long time, long time

[Zephos]

For those of you who think Griffith is weakened in his human form: Do you think he can transform like other apostles to and from his apostle state? Would he still be weakened even after transforming?

I agree he is probably weaker as a human, but I think he is going to Ganishka's palace to be able to transform without anyone but his apostles seeing it. Once he is Femto again, I bet he'll be as powerful as ever.

Ganishka's ramblings int he most recent chapter gave the impression that Griffith is still an astral being despite looking human. I have a feeling he's no weaker than Femto.


I caught up to Berserk a bit after this arc, and reading it all at once felt completely complementary to the story. It brought forth alot of plot material that was to be expanded upon later, mostly Gutt's ridiculous rage developed in 2 years as the dark night. The fight wasn't long at all if you read it all in one night, its just plain awesome. I think Miura always crafts his stories in a way that its better to read a volume or two at once, its just so hard to not read the new chapters.

This is absolutely true.

[Elijah Snow]

I have honestly never thought any of Berserk is filler in any way and it all is part of the larger plot or character development. Just because it doesn't seem so obvious to you, doesn't mean it's not important. Don't blame Berserk because you can't appreciate subtlety.

[Sess]

For those of you who think Griffith is weakened in his human form: Do you think he can transform like other apostles to and from his apostle state? Would he still be weakened even after transforming?

I agree he is probably weaker as a human, but I think he is going to Ganishka's palace to be able to transform without anyone but his apostles seeing it. Once he is Femto again, I bet he'll be as powerful as ever.Personally, I'm hoping that Griffith can no longer transform into Femto. Maybe he has some other form like the apostles, but I like the idea that he gave up a lot of power to be reborn and pursue his dream of having his own kingdom.

And I'm telling you, it's not power-up. A power-up is something that enhances your powers overall...

The Armor is a power-up. The brand, however, is not. The Dragonslayer isn't either. Tools are, by no means, power-ups. Sorry, but your comparisons are totally off...it just doesn't fit your argument.Sorry, as I sorta said before, I'm just using the term "powerup" to reference certain events in Guts' past. I didn't realize there was a strict definition of the word. However the meaning behind the word has nothing to do with my argument. So the armor is a powerup, the brand and the dragonslayer are not. Ok, fine. Then just think of whatever term would encompass all of those, and then just look through my previous argument and replace "powerup" with whatever word I should have used. Maybe then you'll see what it is I'm actually talking about.

[yo586]

Don't blame Berserk because you can't appreciate subtlety.

Nice.

Ganishka's ramblings int he most recent chapter gave the impression that Griffith is still an astral being despite looking human. I have a feeling he's no weaker than Femto.

Personally, I'm hoping that Griffith can no longer transform into Femto. Maybe he has some other form like the apostles, but I like the idea that he gave up a lot of power to be reborn and pursue his dream of having his own kingdom.

Re both of these posts: Does this mean we will never see Femto again? I find it hard to believe Miura would create a character design so important and then ditch it. And what other way is there really to reintroduce Femto but to make it a Griffith powerup when needed?

[AbnormallyNormal]

i like that idea that this is a temporary "humanoid" form for femto, posing as the original griffith, and in a troubling battle he can "release" into his true femto form, that would be nice

[yo586]

would that not be like every other apostle we've seen?

[AbnormallyNormal]

exactly, thats why it would be excellent. it would make sense too, and not throw away the femto character design

[Segan]

I believe, Femto was the "temporary" design, not Griffith...so it's all right, if Femto doesn't appear again. There wouldn't be any point of this in the current plot, anyway.

@Sess: That's not how it works. Humanity itself has no significance in front of higher powers. And being original while trying to keep the usual context is quite hard to do, because most ideas have been done already and the re-usage of some of those ideas might seem "not-so-original", even though they are good in itselves. I believe that's what you were referring to.
If you think about it, the humans haven't "conquered" the Earth with that abstract term "humanity". It's because they were quite a versatile race who were able to use tools, knowledge and weapons to their advantage against a force greater than themselves, the nature itself.
It's somewhat logical, if Miura would be doing the same with Guts. And so far until now, Miura did an excellent job with "powering up" the main protagonist, without going Shounen and overboard.

[Elijah Snow]

I believe, Femto was the "temporary" design, not Griffith...so it's all right, if Femto doesn't appear again. There wouldn't be any point of this in the current plot, anyway.

@Sess: That's not how it works. Humanity itself has no significance in front of higher powers. And being original while trying to keep the usual context is quite hard to do, because most ideas have been done already and the re-usage of some of those ideas might seem "not-so-original", even though they are good in itselves. I believe that's what you were referring to.
If you think about it, the humans haven't "conquered" the Earth with that abstract term "humanity". It's because they were quite a versatile race who were able to use tools, knowledge and weapons to their advantage against a force greater than themselves, the nature itself.
It's somewhat logical, if Miura would be doing the same with Guts. And so far until now, Miura did an excellent job with "powering up" the main protagonist, without going Shounen and overboard.

For some reason I've always felt that the Femto design was more than just temporary, but rather important. I hope that Miura doesn't ditch the design and reintroduces it later in the story.

[AbnormallyNormal]

well i wonder how the other members of God Hand feel about Femto becoming reinarcnating as a more or less human body.

[Segan]

For some reason I've always felt that the Femto design was more than just temporary, but rather important. I hope that Miura doesn't ditch the design and reintroduces it later in the story.Reintroduction or not, the design won't be ditched anyway...

I have yet to see any graphical inconsistencies in Miura's artworks. I could even recognize some of the Apostles from earlier, that are part of the "man-made" behelit (was called Reincarnator) now.

If Femto were to re-introduced, it will be the same design. But I somehow doubt that Femto is coming back. Unless Miura plans on tearing apart Griffith's facade at some point of time, then Femto's appearance would make sense.

[Muk]

i think its going to be similar to the sea port battle, mirua is taking his time to handdraw every piece of the war

so that's why he's not posting a date for the next chapter

[Zephos]

Personally, I'm hoping that Griffith can no longer transform into Femto. Maybe he has some other form like the apostles, but I like the idea that he gave up a lot of power to be reborn and pursue his dream of having his own kingdom.

Are you paying attention at all to whats going on...?

Hes fulfilling the anti-christ role, clearly he's not here for a kingdom.

[Segan]

Are you paying attention at all to whats going on...?

Hes fulfilling the anti-christ role, clearly he's not here for a kingdom.Well, after a quick search it would seem to me, that the theme of the Antichrist has a broad range and there isn't exactly a commonly acknowledged definition of the Antichrist, at least that's what german wikipedia says.

But at wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antichrist) there's a passage, that fits surpisingly nicely to Griffith: [...]
There is a consensus that sometime prior to the expected return of Jesus, there will be a period of "great tribulation"[20] during which the Antichrist, indwelt and controlled by Satan, will attempt to win supporters with false peace, supernatural signs
[...]
Similar, no? :wink

But be aware, that the english article to the Antichrist has a disputed neutrality, so the content may be at least partially biased in some way.

And also, the theme of the Antichrist requires the theme of the Messiah, since that's why the Antichrist is called the way it is in the first place.

If Miura indeed does use the Antichrist theme on purpose, then I would imagine that he will alter the definition of the Antichrist, since I doubt there will be a redeemer in Berserk as an opponent for Griffith. So far, there have been no sign of this.
Guts is certainly not fit for that kind of role. :wink

[Zephos]

Well, after a quick search it would seem to me, that the theme of the Antichrist has a broad range and there isn't exactly a commonly acknowledged definition of the Antichrist, at least that's what german wikipedia says.

But at wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antichrist) there's a passage, that fits surpisingly nicely to Griffith:
Similar, no? :wink

But be aware, that the english article to the Antichrist has a disputed neutrality, so the content may be at least partially biased in some way.

I'm not claiming an absolute anti-christ story. But wiki is not the only place Iv'e read up on the anti-christ.
The figure is supposed to appear as a savior, uniting the world under one banner, a mark will be distributed on the people, and the savior is actually an agent of the devil/the evil himself, and most importantly a prelude to the apocalypse.

[Segan]

I'm not claiming an absolute anti-christ story. But wiki is not the only place Iv'e read up on the anti-christ.
The figure is supposed to appear as a savior, uniting the world under one banner, a mark will be distributed on the people, and the savior is actually an agent of the devil/the evil himself, and most importantly a prelude to the apocalypse.
Would you tell me where I can read up on that?

[Zephos]

I'll try to find a good website for you but it could take some time, alot of them are filled with fundamentalist crap or conspiracy theorist nuts.

[Zephos]

Heres a quick summary (ignore the conspiracy garbage its laced in) that touches on some key Griffith-Reborn like qualities.
http://www.countdown.org/armageddon/antichrist.htm

Of course there's the issue of there never being a jesus figure in the Holy See religion. Or perhaps more accurately Griffith is jesus too. The religous symbol of the Holy See is the white hawk, like jesus on the cross for christianity. The way they speak of the coming of the white hawk has all the likelihood of him being Jesus. But as we know, Miura enjoys subverting ideas of religon, what with God being a negative lifeforce of all humanity, an evil being essentially.
What it seems like is that Griffith is both christ and anti-christ.

[Segan]

Heres a quick summary (ignore the conspiracy garbage its laced in) that touches on some key Griffith-Reborn like qualities.
http://www.countdown.org/armageddon/antichrist.htm

Of course there's the issue of there never being a jesus figure in the Holy See religion. Or perhaps more accurately Griffith is jesus too. The religous symbol of the Holy See is the white hawk, like jesus on the cross for christianity. The way they speak of the coming of the white hawk has all the likelihood of him being Jesus. But as we know, Miura enjoys subverting ideas of religon, what with God being a negative lifeforce of all humanity, an evil being essentially.
What it seems like is that Griffith is both christ and anti-christ.I'm just reading it, so I will just quickly throw in a few things:

Griffith being the christ and antichrist seems like an interesting idea, but I believe, this would pose too many problems for Miura to construct in the plot.

Anyway, I just remembered, that I read a book concerning the biblic end of the real world and the antichrist also appears quite a while ago, and there was a 7-years-plan mentioned.

What are the chances of Miura implementing a 7-years timeskip, where Griffith gradually conquers and unites the world, while Guts is in rehabilitation on Skelling Island? As of now, Guts has no way of fighting Griffith, and his possible ally to fight or support him against such a powerhouse like Griffith, Schierke, still needs to learn and grow a lot. And Skelling Island is said to be filled with mages, which would be an ideal place for Schierke to grow in power.

Just a thought.

[Muk]

you mean to tell us to read a side story filling the gap of 7 years only telling us the side how griffith conquers the world

that'd be boring as hell

all it sum up to is that mirua is taking 2-3 month per chapter as he draws how griffith walz through each country

i'd prefer to see something else

[Segan]

you mean to tell us to read a side story filling the gap of 7 years only telling us the side how griffith conquers the world

that'd be boring as hell

all it sum up to is that mirua is taking 2-3 month per chapter as he draws how griffith walz through each country

i'd prefer to see something elseHow in all the world did you interpret my comment that way? Or do you not know what timeskip means?

[Shikashi]

I'm just reading it, so I will just quickly throw in a few things:

Griffith being the christ and antichrist seems like an interesting idea, but I believe, this would pose too many problems for Miura to construct in the plot.

Anyway, I just remembered, that I read a book concerning the biblic end of the real world and the antichrist also appears quite a while ago, and there was a 7-years-plan mentioned.

What are the chances of Miura implementing a 7-years timeskip, where Griffith gradually conquers and unites the world, while Guts is in rehabilitation on Skelling Island? As of now, Guts has no way of fighting Griffith, and his possible ally to fight or support him against such a powerhouse like Griffith, Schierke, still needs to learn and grow a lot. And Skelling Island is said to be filled with mages, which would be an ideal place for Schierke to grow in power.

Just a thought.
I actually like that idea of yours, but I don't think Schierke is supposed to play such a major role in the Manga. This still is about Guts struggle and how he will try to save the Woman he loves while killing his worst enemy. Adding people to the mix like that doesn't suit me well. I'd be more than happy if his ally was Skull Knight though, there's still too much we don't know about him and he will definitely play an important part.

Also, I don't think Griffith is so much of a "powerhouse" as you make him. His allies are what makes him dangerous, why do you think he needs them in the first place? If Griffith was so powerful as you make him, he could do all the conquering by himself, and don't give me the arrogance argument. I think he's about as powerful as he was when he fought Guts last time, where he got owned by the way. The hard part, imho, is reaching Griffith, not fighting him.

[Segan]

I actually like that idea of yours, but I don't think Schierke is supposed to play such a major role in the Manga.So you think, Miura just adds people for fun? Then you are going to be disappointed for sure.
Besides, Miura has announced his intention to make Guts interact with more people a long time ago. Though, the interview where he said that, is on German (in one of the earlier volumes of Berserk, I think), so you may not be able to confirm.

Also, I don't think Griffith is so much of a "powerhouse" as you make him. His allies are what makes him dangerous, why do you think he needs them in the first place? If Griffith was so powerful as you make him, he could do all the conquering by himself, and don't give me the arrogance argument. I think he's about as powerful as he was when he fought Guts last time, where he got owned by the way. The hard part, imho, is reaching Griffith, not fighting him.Now that's some misinterpretations in my eyes. He has the allies to do the work for him, because it's much, much more convenient. Not because he needs them.
As for power itself, Griffith may not have been showing his goods yet, but what happened to Ganishka should tell you, that Griffith's powers are by far superior to his. So damn superior that he doesn't even need to move to make Ganishka piss in the pants. Literally.

I don't think that Griffith didn't finish Ganishka off right then and there because he didn't have the power to do so. It's because Griffith had other plans he intended to carry on, and his attempt to destroy Ganishka might have blocked those plans (the Pope, Vritannis and all) and, worse yet, endangered his relationship with Charlotte (for obvious reasons).

[Shikashi]

So you think, Miura just adds people for fun? Then you are going to be disappointed for sure.
Besides, Miura has announced his intention to make Guts interact with more people a long time ago. Though, the interview where he said that, is on German (in one of the earlier volumes of Berserk, I think), so you may not be able to confirm.
Well, obviously, he doesn't add them for fun, but Schierke doesn't look like she will be much of help. Last time I remember her being useful was in the church and that was a long time ago.

Now that's some misinterpretations in my eyes. He has the allies to do the work for him, because it's much, much more convenient. Not because he needs them.
As for power itself, Griffith may not have been showing his goods yet, but what happened to Ganishka should tell you, that Griffith's powers are by far superior to his. So damn superior that he doesn't even need to move to make Ganishka piss in the pants. Literally.

I don't think that Griffith didn't finish Ganishka off right then and there because he didn't have the power to do so. It's because Griffith had other plans he intended to carry on, and his attempt to destroy Ganishka might have blocked those plans (the Pope, Vritannis and all) and, worse yet, endangered his relationship with Charlotte (for obvious reasons).
I didn't really understood what was going on with the two (Ganishka and Griffith), but I don't think he "pissed" his pants due to Griffith being a powerhouse. Yes, I may be missing something, but I don't remember reading that Griffith's power was so above Ganishkas', again, I may be wrong (most likely I am, but I like debating).

[Segan]

Well, obviously, he doesn't add them for fun, but Schierke doesn't look like he will be much of help. Last time I remember him being useful was in the church and that was a long time ago.Erm...what about Vritannis? Without her, Guts would never have gotten past Daiba.

I didn't really understood what was going on with the two (Ganishka and Griffith), but I don't think he "pissed" his pants due to Griffith being a powerhouse. Yes, I may be missing something, but I don't remember reading that Griffith's power was so above Ganishkas', again, I may be wrong (most likely I am, but I like debating).One of the things that make Berserk so great, is that certain informations aren't declared as such, so you have to think yourself to get them.

First of all, we have two instances where Ganishka acknowledges Griffith's superiority, directly and indirectly.
- The first one being Ganishka sweating like mad and realizing, that his opponent's aura alone is maddening him, which is clearly part of his power, whose effect is enhanced by the fact that Griffith is the master of Apostles (like every God Hand) and Ganishka is an Apostle.
- The second one is in the most recent chapter, where Ganishka admits, that Griffith is an a whole other level. If he didn't admit that, then he would have had no reason to throw himself in the reincarnator.

Secondly, there was the blowing wind that came out of nowhere, just in the moment after Griffith's cryptic speech "it smells of the tides". The whole time before, there wasn't a damn bit of wind and after it hit Ganishka, it didn't come again.
Coincidence? Considering the circumstances, I think not. It would also be unlike Miura to do something randomly. It's a strong hint, that Griffith is a magic user. Just that he doesn't use spells and such (much like Ganishka).

[Pintsize]

I'm up in the air about a time skip. Isidro and Schierke provide some good laughs as kids, as well as a give different viewpoint than the older generation's. If their youth was taken away, I think the manga might shrink as a whole.

On the other hand I'd like to see who they grow up to be, but that can always be done in a few chapters after the manga is (finally) finished.

[yo586]

I can't count the amount of references to Griffith's perfection that have been made since his rebirth. He's definitely on another level of power.

[Shikashi]

Erm...what about Vritannis? Without her, Guts would never have gotten past Daiba.
You got me, in any case, I was mistaking Schierke for Serpico. That's why I mentioned the church and why I referred to her as "him and he". Yes, stupid mistake, I'm not good with names. I edited my post though, just not to sound too stupid, rofl.

One of the things that make Berserk so great, is that certain informations aren't declared as such, so you have to think yourself to get them.

First of all, we have two instances where Ganishka acknowledges Griffith's superiority, directly and indirectly.
- The first one being Ganishka sweating like mad and realizing, that his opponent's aura alone is maddening him, which is clearly part of his power, whose effect is enhanced by the fact that Griffith is the master of Apostles (like every God Hand) and Ganishka is an Apostle.
- The second one is in the most recent chapter, where Ganishka admits, that Griffith is an a whole other level. If he didn't admit that, then he would have had no reason to throw himself in the reincarnator.

Secondly, there was the blowing wind that came out of nowhere, just in the moment after Griffith's cryptic speech "it smells of the tides". The whole time before, there wasn't a damn bit of wind and after it hit Ganishka, it didn't come again.
Coincidence? Considering the circumstances, I think not. It would also be unlike Miura to do something randomly. It's a strong hint, that Griffith is a magic user. Just that he doesn't use spells and such (much like Ganishka).
What if he's using those subtle "attacks" on Ganishka to scare him? To make himself look more powerful than he actually is? Knowing that he isn't far superior, he's using mind-games on Ganishka. It would avoid battle, or so Griffith believed (if I'm correct), however, rather than making Ganishka bend down and take it Griffiths' mind-games back-fired.

About the aura, you said it yourself "The first one being Ganishka sweating like mad and realizing, that his opponent's aura alone is maddening him, which is clearly part of his power, whose effect is enhanced by the fact that Griffith is the master of Apostles (like every God Hand) and Ganishka is an Apostle.".
I'm just wondering here, if Griffith is as powerful as Femto (or any other God Hand) how would his Human body take it? How would it handle the amount of power?
I just think it's weird that the Human body can be used to the same extent that of a God Hand.

[Elijah Snow]

Touching up on something Segan posted earlier:

Would a timeskip really be appropriate? Actually, would a timeskip be necessary?

[yo586]

I'm just wondering here, if Griffith is as powerful as Femto (or any other God Hand) how would his Human body take it? How would it handle the amount of power?
I just think it's weird that the Human body can be used to the same extent that of a God Hand.

Really, this argument could be said for any of the apostles, its not every day that you see a human body bust out into an incredible monster, only to be able to go back to human a chapter later. The whole hero theme is about Gut's struggle rising above the ultimate creature of destiny. If Griffith was weakened, that'd just be anticlimatic. Doesn't make sense from a story perspective.

Sess, I'd be really surprised if Femto isn't reintroduced, his design was given a lot of attention in both the manga and its fanbase (action figures, etc.). Additionally, I see no reason why his case should be an exception to the rule of the apostle, that they can transform into their monster form at will (a significant power boost). Though I wouldn't mind if we never see it again, I thought he could have been designed better. One thing I am sure of though, is that when Guts finally ends Griffith's existence, he will be in human form--just more poetic.

[Zephos]

About the aura, you said it yourself "The first one being Ganishka sweating like mad and realizing, that his opponent's aura alone is maddening him, which is clearly part of his power, whose effect is enhanced by the fact that Griffith is the master of Apostles (like every God Hand) and Ganishka is an Apostle.".
I'm just wondering here, if Griffith is as powerful as Femto (or any other God Hand) how would his Human body take it? How would it handle the amount of power?
I just think it's weird that the Human body can be used to the same extent that of a God Hand.

What reason do we have to think Griffith is making a sham of his powers.
All dialouge from every character, Skull Knight, Flora, Scheirke, Ganishka, etc. Everything. Points to him still being an astral demi-god, just in the shape of a human.

[Sess]

Well, obviously, he doesn't add them for fun, but Schierke doesn't look like she will be much of help. Last time I remember her being useful was in the church and that was a long time ago.


I didn't really understood what was going on with the two (Ganishka and Griffith), but I don't think he "pissed" his pants due to Griffith being a powerhouse. Yes, I may be missing something, but I don't remember reading that Griffith's power was so above Ganishkas', again, I may be wrong (most likely I am, but I like debating).Dude… Schierke… I mean… forget it. If you realize she’s important by now then there’s no point in me trying to convince you.

I believe, Femto was the "temporary" design, not Griffith...so it's all right, if Femto doesn't appear again. There wouldn't be any point of this in the current plot, anyway.Agreed.

@Sess: That's not how it works. Humanity itself has no significance in front of higher powers. And being original while trying to keep the usual context is quite hard to do, because most ideas have been done already and the re-usage of some of those ideas might seem "not-so-original", even though they are good in itselves. I believe that's what you were referring to.
If you think about it, the humans haven't "conquered" the Earth with that abstract term "humanity". It's because they were quite a versatile race who were able to use tools, knowledge and weapons to their advantage against a force greater than themselves, the nature itself.
It's somewhat logical, if Miura would be doing the same with Guts. And so far until now, Miura did an excellent job with "powering up" the main protagonist, without going Shounen and overboard.I get what you’re saying, although I don’t think it would be too hard for Miura to be original within the context of his own writing. But what I keep coming back to is the idea that Guts’ will is what got him where he is now. He chose to use giant swords. He chose to use the dragonslayer, and in so doing, ebedded the dragonslayer with additional power which Guts can put to use. He got branded in the eclipse and through his strength survived long enough to be rescued by the skull night. After that he keeps fighting and fighting, getting stronger and stronger. So please tell me how he can be given some special ability that allows him to touch power like the Godhand and Griffith, and have it feel like Guts really earned that power through his strength and will, and wasn’t just given it to move the plot along. I just can’t think of how that could happen.

I'm not claiming an absolute anti-christ story. But wiki is not the only place Iv'e read up on the anti-christ.
The figure is supposed to appear as a savior, uniting the world under one banner, a mark will be distributed on the people, and the savior is actually an agent of the devil/the evil himself, and most importantly a prelude to the apocalypse.While it is sometimes amusing to go looking through mythology for possible influences on manga authors, I leave the ideas about how they might ultimately influence the outcome of the story to some of the more obsessive people in the Naruto Theories section.

Are you paying attention at all to whats going on...?

Hes fulfilling the anti-christ role, clearly he's not here for a kingdom.
Are you paying attention?

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5747/berserkv22c02p045copyer4.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4492/berserkv22c04p093copyzs0.jpg

[Yakuza]

Hvent posted here in a few centuries....

when is the new chapter out?

[Zephos]

While it is sometimes amusing to go looking through mythology for possible influences on manga authors, I leave the ideas about how they might ultimately influence the outcome of the story to some of the more obsessive people in the Naruto Theories section.

Are you paying attention?

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5747/berserkv22c02p0=45copyer4.jpg
http://img5=20.imageshack.us/img520/4492/berserkv22c04p093copyzs0.jpg

Guess that one bit of dialouge clearly intended to piss off Gutts means all the mounds of evidence that he's here for much much more are useless huh.

You don't honestly think that Griffith will get is kingdom and than he'll just sit on Midland's throne until Gutts comes to kill him right?

You seriously can't have read through all the ominous dialouge about the coming apocalypse/astral world merging with the physical as of Griffith's rebirth/Apostles talking about "a true sun rising over the land"/All the white hawk dark hawk imagery and symbolism/ all the talk from Ganishka and Flora Skull Knight about him being an astral titan/him specifically going out of his way to send troops to kill Flora/The Behelit Apostle's wish to the Godhand to hatcha perfect world followed by him hatching Griffith and on and on and on and on and on and SO forth.....is all negated by that line of dialouge.
That Griffith is just picking up where he left off before the King of Midland imprisoned him.

This isn't Naruto, this is a Seinen manga, with an author whose been shown to have done thurough period research and has been very obviously playing around with Christian mythos and symbolism since volume 14.

You better beleive

[AbnormallyNormal]

we do not know yet dheano.

yeah i am against a timeskip, i think it would lessen the impact of all the side characters too much, and it would remove some of the dramatic tension. although i suppose if it was really done well, it might work beatifully. it'd be a big gamble basically

[Segan]

Are you paying attention?

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5747/berserkv22c02p045copyer4.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4492/berserkv22c04p093copyzs0.jpgHow cute.

Now let me ask you: Are you paying attention? http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5962/20ye4.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/7987/21wj7.jpgI don't need a clear line that says: "I'M GONNA CONQUER THE WORLD!"

With those pages it was confirmed for me, that Midland's kingdom is just a small step for Griffith.

@Shikashi: Like others said, your arguments hold no water, since it could be applied to anyone else inhuman if your implication was correct. It, however, is not.

[Blaze of Glory]

If what you say actually might turn out to be true then It's gonna be Guts and company against the world. Definitely, gonna need all the time possible to build up their skill level to up against Griffith and his whole army.

[Aokiji]

Do you like "Hawks" better or "Falcons" ? :huh

[gunsn1per]

Hello, I'm new here! :)

I highly doubt there will be a timeskip because as our skully friend said that, the Hawk doesn't like someone who's equal to him, and I guess he will invade Puck's homeland, because there lies the powerful king of Elf...and Hawk doesn't like it...

And if that happens, I would like everyone in Guts party to be killed so Guts in turn will become consumed totally by his hatred and become a "Berserker" kekeke...>:)

That won't happen I guess...and the next chapter will likely about the final battle between the Hawk and Ganishka.

[Segan]

Griffith probably only commanded Flora's execution because she was the only significantly powerful mage "nearby", and he felt, it was too risky to let her alive while he was making his moves, when she was this close.

But he probably didn't know that Flora was nearing the end of her life, so I would guess, he only went by reputation.

But Puck's homeland is pretty far away out there in the high sea, which happens to be pretty isolated, so I guess, Griffith won't see the mages there as an immediate threat and instead will concentrate his ressources on Midland and its neighbour countries. This would give Guts and Co. the time to recover, build up their strengths and plan for the future.

[Aokiji]

Am i the only one who thinks that Ganishka's character design is killer? :wtf

And can someone who knowsexplain this diagram to me: http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/universe/berserk-unviverse-final.jpg

[Sess]

Do you like "Hawks" better or "Falcons" ? :huh Hawks.

Guess that one bit of dialouge clearly intended to piss off Gutts means all the mounds of evidence that he's here for much much more are useless huh.

You don't honestly think that Griffith will get is kingdom and than he'll just sit on Midland's throne until Gutts comes to kill him right?

You seriously can't have read through all the ominous dialouge about the coming apocalypse/astral world merging with the physical as of Griffith's rebirth/Apostles talking about "a true sun rising over the land"/All the white hawk dark hawk imagery and symbolism/ all the talk from Ganishka and Flora Skull Knight about him being an astral titan/him specifically going out of his way to send troops to kill Flora/The Behelit Apostle's wish to the Godhand to hatcha perfect world followed by him hatching Griffith and on and on and on and on and on and SO forth.....is all negated by that line of dialouge.
That Griffith is just picking up where he left off before the King of Midland imprisoned him.

This isn't Naruto, this is a Seinen manga, with an author whose been shown to have done thurough period research and has been very obviously playing around with Christian mythos and symbolism since volume 14.

You better beleive
How cute.

Now let me ask you: Are you paying attention? http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5962/20ye4.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/7987/21wj7.jpgI don't need a clear line that says: "I'M GONNA CONQUER THE WORLD!"

With those pages it was confirmed for me, that Midland's kingdom is just a small step for Griffith.
Zephos and Segan: I've just had it explained to me that this isn't Naruto... I'm not even sure what to say to that. I've only made that same point many times in the past when people start getting a little too Shonen with their theories. I think I might cry. :P

Anyway, I do understand what you guys are saying, but I never said anything about Midland being the limits of Griffith's kingdom. Griffith's ultimate goal throughout his entire life has been to have his own kingdom. I realize the typical size of a kingdom is just a country, but there have been a few in the past that stretched out across the globe. Still, I guess I should have been more specific. Also, I'm not saying that line about having his own kingdom negates everything else that has happened. I also never said that they contradict each other in the first place. I don't understand why one has to be true or the other. When was that decided? I suppose if Griffith destroys the world then it really wouldn't be much of a kingdom, but I don't think that's his goal. Even if what a few characters have said can be interpreted that way, it doesn't necessarily mean that is the correct interpretation, and again, it goes against Griffith's life goals. Remember everything he was shown to convince him to become Femto? It was all about fulfilling his dream. Almost every single important event that has taken place in this story were set in motion by Griffith's goals.

Also, let's try to stay a little more friendly with these discussions. I really enjoy debating some of these topics with you guys, but the fun for me comes to a screeching halt when people with differing opinions start getting sarcastic and insulting with their comments.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Am i the only one who thinks that Ganishka's character design is killer? :wtf

And can someone who knowsexplain this diagram to me: http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/universe/berserk-unviverse-final.jpg

holy shit thats an amazing diagram, and completely correct too... a little of it is speculation though. what about it do you want explained? do you read berzerk?

[gunsn1per]

Griffith probably only commanded Flora's execution because she was the only significantly powerful mage "nearby", and he felt, it was too risky to let her alive while he was making his moves, when she was this close.

But he probably didn't know that Flora was nearing the end of her life, so I would guess, he only went by reputation.

But Puck's homeland is pretty far away out there in the high sea, which happens to be pretty isolated, so I guess, Griffith won't see the mages there as an immediate threat and instead will concentrate his ressources on Midland and its neighbour countries. This would give Guts and Co. the time to recover, build up their strengths and plan for the future.

Yes I thought of it, Hawk would probably invades them, but not immediately...maybe after he takes control of the Holy Alliance? But in the time being Guts party should have been given some power-ups...err I don't really like the sound of it...power-ups...like some typical shounen manga...XD

@Aokiji: One of it that's interesting is one ego can't stream more than three err...whaizit...whatever like the God Hand, because they are a powerful astral being, and as far as I know can stream/traverse up to point D, couldn't show up into the physical world anymore...and Guts, being the branded one could traverse up to seeing astral spirits clearly...maybe Guts could beat them?

[Aokiji]

holy shit thats an amazing diagram, and completely correct too... a little of it is speculation though. what about it do you want explained? do you read berzerk?

Yes I do. And I don't get the difference between the layers. Physical world and Nexus are a given. But why are Gutts and Caska not living in the physical world? I know Skull Knight said that Gutts is more like a fish in the water than a reflection, but it's still too complicated.

[gunsn1per]

Yes I do. And I don't get the difference between the layers. Physical world and Nexus are a given. But why are Gutts and Caska not living in the physical world? I know Skull Knight said that Gutts is more like a fish in the water than a reflection, but it's still too complicated.

Our skully friend said somethin' like I mentioned before, when Guts met him and on his way to rescue Casca in that awful tower (volume 17-18 I think)

I think because he's branded, becoming a sacrifice, able to see astral spirits clearer than anyone (this is the main clue), and destined to die (which he hasn't and that leads to some argue whether Guts is still in the 'fate' that the Idea controls). The diagram says that one ego can traverse up to 3 layers, right? But I thought Guts is another one prophecy, not onlye because he's branded, but more than something that Miura hasn't cleared yet he gave some clues...

And I think being branded doesn't only give you negative thinks (like able to seeing ghosts, etc) but something more...even though they are mean to be sacrificed...

[Zephos]

Yes I do. And I don't get the difference between the layers. Physical world and Nexus are a given. But why are Gutts and Caska not living in the physical world? I know Skull Knight said that Gutts is more like a fish in the water than a reflection, but it's still too complicated.

Gutts and Casca have the Brand on them. That puts them in the Interstice. Its why they can interact freely with ghosts and things, and why those things interact with them.

The layers are planes of existence.
Physical to pure idea.


@Sess: The problem is you seem to think Griffith has severed ties with the Godhand and is doing this all on his own as part of his dream. That this isn't part of the Godhand/Idea directive.

[Segan]

Am i the only one who thinks that Ganishka's character design is killer? :wtf

And can someone who knowsexplain this diagram to me: http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/universe/berserk-unviverse-final.jpg
Shierke already explained that there were essentially three planes, one physical plane, one interstice, where ghosts and lower astral beings live, one astral plane, where higher astral beings, such as God Hand, exist.

Then we have Flora, who explained, that there was another, deeper plane of existence, where the highest being is supposed to be.

Makes four planes.

@Sess: Why did you even bother showing those pics of Griffith's speech about "own a country", when you are essentially agreeing, that the "country", he's speaking of, could just go beyond the normal limits of a "conventionally sized" country?
Anyway, I was just butting in between you and Zephos, and I will butt myself out of this now.

The problem I have with the view that Griffith will do nothing more but defeat enemies and then take his kingdom (whatever size it is) with approval of people, is simply because of his inhuman followers, the moves he does secretly from regular people and the fact, that he's a God Hand that is supposed to bring the age of darkness and rule over death and wastelands by the prophecy. 2 years and a pandemy and no war during this time doesn't define "age of darkness" for me.

There has to happen something that will show that Griffith isn't only their savior as the Hawk of Light, but also their doombringer as the Hawk of Darkness. Otherwise Miura put in some elements completely and utterly useless, which I don't believe.

[Aokiji]

Lol @ Puck. "Cogito ergo sum." :rotfl

[Niko Bellic]

If your a real Berserk fan you would vote for Berserk for Manga of the Month!

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=309742

[Elijah Snow]

Voted, it better win.

[Segan]

Voted for Berserk. It's so damn satisfying seeing my favorite series being voted the most.

When is the next "Featured Manga" thread going to be? It seems that D-Grayman is the current featured one.

[~Shin~]

Voted and I think I'm going to read Berserk again...

[Segan]

Voted and I think I'm going to read Berserk again...Did you drop it?

[~Shin~]

Did you drop it?

lol I should have been more clearer. I'm going to re-read it again.

Berserk is tied with Monster for my fav manga of all time so I would never drop Berserk unless Muira becomes a pathetic storyteller (i.e. never going to happen)

[Segan]

Heh, have read Monster, too. Not my favorite, but I'll admit that the story was quite good. The twist that was unfolding towards the end was pretty good.

[Niko Bellic]

Hopefully they'll have gantZ in the next nomination.

[Pintsize]

That is a simply awesome Berserk set you have there :awesome

Also, I want more Berserk for Christmas (as ironic as that might be) :LOS

[Elijah Snow]

I didn't get any Berserk manga for christmas, but I'll buy it eventually anyway.

[Sess]

@Sess: The problem is you seem to think Griffith has severed ties with the Godhand and is doing this all on his own as part of his dream. That this isn't part of the Godhand/Idea directive.@Sess: Why did you even bother showing those pics of Griffith's speech about "own a country", when you are essentially agreeing, that the "country", he's speaking of, could just go beyond the normal limits of a "conventionally sized" country?
Anyway, I was just butting in between you and Zephos, and I will butt myself out of this now.

The problem I have with the view that Griffith will do nothing more but defeat enemies and then take his kingdom (whatever size it is) with approval of people, is simply because of his inhuman followers, the moves he does secretly from regular people and the fact, that he's a God Hand that is supposed to bring the age of darkness and rule over death and wastelands by the prophecy. 2 years and a pandemy and no war during this time doesn't define "age of darkness" for me.

There has to happen something that will show that Griffith isn't only their savior as the Hawk of Light, but also their doombringer as the Hawk of Darkness. Otherwise Miura put in some elements completely and utterly useless, which I don't believe.
Zephos and Segan: That's an exaggeration of what I said. This all started because I didn't believe that Griffith was doing nothing more then fulfilling the role of an antichrist figure and that his sole purpose, at least in his mind, was to be the bringer of darkness and destruction.

I agree with you Segan that Miura doesn't just put in elements that are completely and utterly useless. I posted those images of Griffith reborn talking about getting his own country/kingdom because of that fact. Yes I discussed that the magnitude of this kingdom could be much greater than people initially expected, but what's wrong with that? I think that's a much better interpretation than saying that those words have no meaning because they've been overridden by Griffith's "new purpose" to not get a kingdom but rather to destroy the world etc etc. One of those two arguments seems much more reasonable to me.

I also said that I think Griffith being reborn has lessened, perhaps greatly, his power compared to when he was Femto. I did not say that he had severed ties with the Godhand. Perhaps the rest of the Godhand see Griffith's quest as a means to an end. If what they truly want is to bring darkness and destruction to the world forever and ever, maybe they're using Griffith's conquest as the first step towards that goal. If so, Griffith must know this and perhaps he's even on board. I don't know though, I think that kind of speculation is going a little too far since Griffith says precious little about what he's thinking these days.

Bottom line is that I do agree with you Segan and Zephos that the various dark prophecies and predictions in the story are indeed important. I'm not trying to say they don't count at all. I'm just saying that they are not reason enough to ignore everything else that has been said so far about Griffith getting his own kingdom. The idea that seems to be floating around is that Griffith's entire conquest is merely a stepping stone towards total destruction and that Griffith doesn't really care about it. But that just goes against everything Griffith has ever said and done. Even if total destruction is the overall end game of the Godhand, this "kingdom" is still very important to Griffith.

Oh, and happy holidays! :)

[gunsn1per]

I voted and looks like this is a clear victory...67%! Unless a miracle goin' about Berserk's gonna win this one...

[Segan]

@Sess: Yupp, happy holidays.

By the way, I was never talking about destruction. There's not really any point in conquering and then destroying unless it's initially something you can't own unless you destroy and rebuild it on your own terms.

What I meant was that, once Griffith is done with his conquering, I don't believe there will be all happy people and peaceful living. Rather, I believe, he's going to show his dark side and turn the peace he brought himself into a reign of terror.

[Sess]

@Sess: Yupp, happy holidays.

By the way, I was never talking about destruction. There's not really any point in conquering and then destroying unless it's initially something you can't own unless you destroy and rebuild it on your own terms.

What I meant was that, once Griffith is done with his conquering, I don't believe there will be all happy people and peaceful living. Rather, I believe, he's going to show his dark side and turn the peace he brought himself into a reign of terror.
I don't think I made it sound like his kingdom would ultimately be peaceful (not intentionally, anyway), but only that he chose his methods so he could earn it rather than simply taking it. The way I'm using those words (earning vs taking), the difference between them is in the minds of the people Griffith will eventually rule. It is the difference in how they will view Griffith compared to Emperor Ganishka.

But as to what you said, yeah you're probably right. Rather, I hope you're right. Ultimately, the kingdom must not be peaceful. Although my reasonings for this are selfish. I simply don't want Griffith to get back all the love and respect he once had, or at least I don't want him to keep it for long. I know I shouldn't be talking about what is "fair" in a Seinen manga, but after all the horrible things Griffith has done, if he completely succeeds and Guts ends up fighting against the world's beloved ruler.... well shit, that just wouldn't be fair!

[yo586]

Once there is no more warring state (ie - Griffith takes over everything) what will his demon army do? They'll become police :smile-big.

There have been alot of references to the god-hand not giving a shit about each other or their goals--I think Griffith is just following his own selfish desire as the idea of evil told him to. The terror and darkness he is symbolized to bring is not a priority of his, just a byproduct of fate.

This same theme seems to apply to all the Godhand. They treat suffering and death as just ritual and amusement. In their minds, the Idea of Evil designed the fated absolute darkness of the world and told them to just go and have a good time. There is no evidence they have a unified plan they are enacting.

[Pintsize]

Any news on the next chapter?

[Shikashi]

Any news on the next chapter?

Not that I know of, no.

Edit, I need someone to clarify this to me. In the 3rd Volume, when the God Hand are summoned, is that before or after the current Arc? I never understood where it took place.

[asdj]

I need someone to clarify this to me. In the 3rd Volume, when the God Hand are summoned, is that before or after the current Arc? I never understood where it took place.

This takes place 1 year after the eclipse, where the original band of the hawk was sacrificed. It is meant to show how gutts traveled as the black swordsman and met puck.

So you can see it like this:

Eclipse

after one year: Volumes 1-3, gutts travels as the black swordsman

after another year: The arc with Roshinu (the "fake" elves)

and then came albion and so on

Well, hope you get it now, which you should :P

[Segan]

You don't know if it was one year after the Eclipse or not. This was just a guess made by the guys who created the inofficial Berserk timeline. The only thing you can be sure about, is that this was a while after the Eclipse happened but before the Roshinu arc took place.

In short: Somewhere during the two years after the Eclipse.

[TWF]

I have nothing to add other then Berserk is awesome.

[Shikashi]

You don't know if it was one year after the Eclipse or not. This was just a guess made by the guys who created the inofficial Berserk timeline. The only thing you can be sure about, is that this was a while after the Eclipse happened but before the Roshinu arc took place.

In short: Somewhere during the two years after the Eclipse.

But prior to Guts meeting Schierke, etc., correct?

[Segan]

But prior to Guts meeting Schierke, etc., correct?Prior to the Roshinu arc...Shierke came way later.

[Shikashi]

Prior to the Roshinu arc...Shierke came way later.

Got it.

So, anyway, why did Nosferatu feel that his dream of being beaten by Griffith should be taken as reality? Is it explained if he had the dream on his own or if it was Griffith's doing?

[Segan]

Got it.

So, anyway, why did Nosferatu feel that his dream of being beaten by Griffith should be taken as reality? Is it explained if he had the dream on his own or if it was Griffith's doing?It was both.

In the dream Zodd transformed (which caused his clothes to tear off) and got slashed in half instantaneously. But after that he woke up and he was in his normal form, like it never happened.

However, the left top of his forehead was bleeding and the left horn that got torn off in the dream was laying down before his feet.

Basically, Zodd has met the "Strongest One" he was seeking for the whole time and thus (kind of) got his dream fulfilled.

[Mat®icha]

it feels like it's been ages since last chapter. it should be out already/soon.

[Muk]

we have absolutely no clue

since mirua didn't post when his next one will be out so all we can do is wait patiently

but this should be an indication ...

last time it took this long was during the seaport battle

so this is another massive battle he's drawing by hand

[AbnormallyNormal]

yeah well he has to make super-ganishka look badass as hell

[Sess]

Been a while since there's been any posting here... Everybody have a good vacation?

[AbnormallyNormal]

sess, post in featured manga of the month, thats where we are doing now.

um on topic: ganishka better kill at least one neo hawk, and not one of those shitty humans either

[Muk]

or he should just whipe them all out

[Mysticwolf6671]

Anyone have a link where i can direct download or veiw online?I was on 286 i wanna catch up xD thanks alot.

[Segan]

Try onemanga.com

[Yamato-takeru]

I hope that Guts is gonna get another power-up.

After all, all of his power-ups up until now were uber-badass.

CannonHand->DragonSlayer->BerserkArmor...

Hopefully, there will be another one, like BerserkArmor V.2 or something. :pek

[Zarathoustr4]

I'm not sure Guts, and the whole manga, are about power up's.
The plot is still directed toward inner Guts (the wolf-dog thingy) and how guts gonna manage it. It's been forshadowed since the very begining.
-Every demon saying he is just inhuman, devil kind
-His first way with Caska (come on, Japanese sexuality is not THAT weird)
-When he bit Caska's breast
-Latest inner threatening from his inner wildness

Come on, before getting another power up, before even facing Griffith again, he'll have to face himself, his anger and his blood and sexual lust. I guess his inner struggle will decide Caska mental health evolution.

Right now, there would be no point in introduicing an "armor 2.0".

To change topic, I feel truly sorry for Ganishka. He's only gonna be fodder for showing griffith new strength as a reborn godhand.

[Perverted_Jiraiya]

How can Mirua make a living on Berserk when there only is like 10 chapter per year.

Mirua will probably die before he even gets close to the ending of Berserk :cry