Story with the Valley of the End (Manga Spoilers)

[Blinus]

K, you know how Kakashi said that the two warriors that fought there were remarkably similar to Naruto and Sasuke? Keep that in mind as you read my theory here.

One of those carvings was definitely Shodai. The other, to me at least, had hair that greatly resembled Level 2 Sasuke's hair. I think that was meant to be symbolic. Naruto = Shodai, Sasuke = The other one.

So, with Kakashi's comment on how similar they were, does that mean that, perhaps during Konoha's founding, Shodai had a great comrade helping him (Perhaps an Uchiha), that disagreed with Shodai and Nidaime's ways and decided to rebel, and that's where the two had some great battle? Then, that unnamed comrade, assuming Shodai didn't kill him, started his own way of doing things elsewhere. Maybe he was responsible for the beginnings of Akatsuki?

[tri-sapphire]

I thought the same thing, except that the second statue could have been Nidaime. The hair kinda resembles Nidaime's, and it would fit because they were brothers, kinda like Naruto considered Sasuke as a "brother".

I don't think that Shodaime's opponent could have been an Uchiha though. The Uchiha clan split from the Hyuuga clan, which is the oldest clan in Konoha.

[Zetsuna]

maybe BenP is right
i read somewhere that both nidaime and shodaime were killed in a war
maybe that guy killed them.....

[tri-sapphire]

Maybe, but Shodaime died before the war started, and Nidaime was able to end it and start the era of peace (according to the data book).

[drknight]

Interesting thought...
Maybe the two of them both wanted to found a new village, start of fresh, but for different reasons: One for the power and one for the people.

[tri-sapphire]

Sorry, some mistakes in my earlier post. Here's something from another related thread:

Both he and his younger brother must have come from somewhere else, since as the story goes *from the databook*:

"Shodaime and Nidaime were actually brothers! Sixty years ago, Shodaime led a group of shinobi to this lush forestland and found the Hidden Leaf Village. Unfortunately during that chaotic era, he passed away shortly after the creation of the village. Nidaime inherited his older brother's will and was responsible for the creation of the ninja academy and others organizations within the village. The great ninja war broke out afterwards; in his dying moment, Nidaime instructed the future generation to pacify the war and ensure the village's prosperity. "

Nidaime is king

[Blinus]

Shodai dying shortly after the village's creation could fit into my theory. Maybe he was killed at the Valley of the End during that battle with the mystery opponent.

Just a thought.

[Nyarlathotep]

Shodai dying shortly after the village's creation could fit into my theory. Maybe he was killed at the Valley of the End during that battle with the mystery opponent.There's a hole in your theory.

Kakashi said that Konohagakure was made in remembrance of that battle and Shodai died a little while after making Konoha.

So if anything, it helps my nomad ninjas theory.

[Blinus]

There's a hole in your theory.

Kakashi said that Konohagakure was made in remembrance of that battle and Shodai died a little while after making Konoha.

So if anything, it helps my nomad ninjas theory.

Blast, that's right too... Okay, I go back to the original thought of both fighters walking away alive, but not on the same side anymore. If my theory is right at all that is. :-P

[drknight]

If he died at the battlefield then he wouldn't have been able to be Sarutobi's Sensei. Nice try though.

[Nyarlathotep]

Blast, that's right too... Okay, I go back to the original thought of both fighters walking away alive, but not on the same side anymore. If my theory is right at all that is. :-POh man, if your theory is right then I hope the other guy wasn't an Uchiha, or else we may have already discovered the identity of the 3rd Mangekyo Sharingan user, or it could be descendant of this hypothetical Uchiha who left Konoha aproximatelly 59-60 years ago or something like that.

Although I really doubt it.

[drknight]

It would make sense that the 3rd Mangekyo user be way older than most, who else would have told Itachi how to obtain it in the fashion that he did?

[Last of the Uchihas]

Cool theory. rep.

[Blinus]

Thanx for the rep. :-)

I was thinking maybe the mystery man was the 3rd Mangekyo user, but... wouldn't he be like a trillion years old? If Shodai was an adult when Sarutobi was a kid, and now Sarutobi is a real old man (Before his death I mean...) well, you see where I'm going. That's assuming mystery opponent was around Shodai's age.

[Smokeyjay]

Unless he just learnt some immortal Jutsu like Oro.

[Nyarlathotep]

I was thinking maybe the mystery man was the 3rd Mangekyo user, but... wouldn't he be like a trillion years old? If Shodai was an adult when Sarutobi was a kid, and now Sarutobi is a real old man (Before his death I mean...) well, you see where I'm going. That's assuming mystery opponent was around Shodai's age.Yes, he would be ancient.

Saruman was 8 years old when Konoha was made, since the mystery guy in the statue looks adult, let's assume he was 18 years old 60 years ago, that would mean the mystery man would be 78 years old aproximatelly, older than Saruman and nowhere near his prime.

Unless he just learnt some immortal Jutsu like Oro.Possible, but not probable since Oro's immortality jutsu is all about changing bodies, and then he would lose his Sharingan eyes and even if he transplanted it ala Kakashi, a transplanted Sharingan in a body that doesn't have Uchiha blood seems to be much weaker that if it was in a body with Uchiha blood.

I doubt he could have found a jutsu that gives him actual immortality, but the only one with actual immortality we've seen in the series is Kyuubi (a demon), and there are those demon paintings in the Uchiha's secret basement...

Let's leave it as a very big and improbable maybe.

[Arcanis]

nice theory, i could see the third mangekyou user being a descendant of the uchiha who fought shodai, maybe he could be in akatsuki, maybe not....what doesn't fit is that the uchiha clan is said to come from the hyuuga clan of konoha so i was thinking they're pretty much new, but this theory suggest that uchihas are way older and come from somewhere else :O

[Muk]

maybe that uber old dude that you guys are talking about was both huyyga and uchia :P i guess i am going off topic but ohh well :)

[Fire With In]

well... we know that Konoha is not that old so I think those clans like Uchiha or Hyuga exicted long ago beffore Konoha and after the creation of Konoha they setteled there... u know u can make a blood line like Sharingan in 80 years

[Blinus]

Just have to say, if it weren't for Photobucket being a dick again, I would've put up a comparison between the mystery man's statue, and the silhouette of the Akatsuki Leader (The first one, from behind). I wanted to do so because they both seem to have that Pigeon's ass hair look that Sasuke also has. :-P

[Nyarlathotep]

Use www.imageshack.us, it's much better than photobucket.

[Fire With In]

Benp I must say that your teory is realy nice and it fits....but I don't know somehow I too thought that the mistary guy is Nidame when I read the manga coz,correct me if I'm wrong, Kakashi said that they fight maid Konoha or sth like that as 1st and 2nd maid Konoha I thought he was Nidame

[Blinus]

Imageshack isn't cooperating either. I read the TOS and clicked the frog, tried to upload, nada. I'm just going in circles.

But for now, look for yourselves if you want, the similar bird butts in the hair. :-P

[Nyarlathotep]

Imageshack isn't cooperating either. I read the TOS and clicked the frog, tried to upload, nada. I'm just going in circles.That's weird, it works perfectly alright for me, maybe it's because I registered? *shrug*

[Marsala]

K, you know how Kakashi said that the two warriors that fought there were remarkably similar to Naruto and Sasuke? Keep that in mind as you read my theory here.

One of those carvings was definitely Shodai. The other, to me at least, had hair that greatly resembled Level 2 Sasuke's hair. I think that was meant to be symbolic. Naruto = Shodai, Sasuke = The other one.

So, with Kakashi's comment on how similar they were, does that mean that, perhaps during Konoha's founding, Shodai had a great comrade helping him (Perhaps an Uchiha), that disagreed with Shodai and Nidaime's ways and decided to rebel, and that's where the two had some great battle? Then, that unnamed comrade, assuming Shodai didn't kill him, started his own way of doing things elsewhere. Maybe he was responsible for the beginnings of Akatsuki?
I had almost the exact same theory, but I thought that the Uchiha could have been the first person to obtain the Mangekyou Sharingan assuming the mysterious third MS handler was in the past.

[drknight]

The fight that Made Konoha...no one see it but me?

Maybe the two were best friends, Nadaime beat him, and he wanted to honor his old pal. After all, if it weren't for the fight, Konoha wouldn't exist... maybe a little far fetched, but within reason of this post I'm assuming.

[Blinus]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/BenPlante/hairs.bmp

THERE! That was much harder than it should've been.

[Fire With In]

Man I must say they realy look alike but it just came into my mind that if the man is a bad gay,well he fought the first an all that,how come they kinda honered him by making a statue out of him? :confused

[drknight]

Man I must say they realy look alike but it just came into my mind that if the man is a bad gay,well he fought the first an all that,how come they kinda honered him by making a statue out of him? :confused

I don't think he was gay...

[Blinus]

Man I must say they realy look alike but it just came into my mind that if the man is a bad gay,well he fought the first an all that,how come they kinda honered him by making a statue out of him? :confused

That's my biggest problem with making the theory work. It was the border if I recall correctly, so maybe it was the other country that made that statue. Maybe that man was the first Kage of wherever that led to. OR, maybe it's meant to be historical. If I was Shodai I might say something like, "Okay, make a carving of me, now make a carving of the guy whose ass I beat. I want everyone to know I bear his ass damn it!"

Or historical in a different way, like, we don't ignore the existence of General Lee just because the North won the Civil War.

I could fanwank this for hours. :-P

[Nyarlathotep]

Call me Nyarlathotep and make me an smod! their hair actually looks alike a lot from the front, but statue-man seems to have more hair in the back of the head and a ponytail, Akatsuki mystery man X also has a lock of hair, a very pointy lock of hair, now I see why you called him a bird, I think I'll call him birdman from now on (that cartoon rocked).

Did we ever see statue-man back? I don't have the chapters right now and I'm too lazy to download and read those chapters right now.

[drknight]

...If I was Shodai I might say something like, "Okay, make a carving of me, now make a carving of the guy whose ass I beat...


HA! That would be so badass

[Blinus]

Call me Nyarlathotep and make me an smod! their hair actually looks alike a lot from the front, but statue-man seems to have more hair in the back of the head and a ponytail, Akatsuki mystery man X also has a lock of hair, a very pointy lock of hair, now I see why you called him a bird, I think I'll call him birdman from now on (that cartoon rocked).

Did we ever see statue-man back? I don't have the chapters right now and I'm too lazy to download and read those chapters right now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/BenPlante/back.bmp
Statue's back. Kinda sucky, but best one I could find. Statue man definitely had more hair, I think, but it's shaped the same.

[drknight]

That statue is a Super-Saiyan! It signifies DBZ's thrown being thrown by Naruto

[Blinus]

That statue is a Super-Saiyan! It signifies DBZ's thrown being thrown by Naruto

Well, there ya go, what did Level 2 Sasuke's hair look like to you? It's all falling into place.

:smile-big

[Sol 3dge]

It couldn't be a Uchiha. I think Shodai was fighting with a shinobi of another village maybe.

[tri-sapphire]

I still stick to the thought that the two were Shodaime and Nidaime (Nidaime had long spiky hair to). Their relation could have been a rivalry, like Sasuke and Naruto. One brother wanted to settle and create Konohagure (probably Shodaime, with his tree technique), while the other (probably Nidaime) wanted to keep on moving, or something else.

[Blinus]

I agree that it could be Nidaime, I'll log that in my memory banks for now.

I can't believe I didn't think of this sooner... if I'm right about the Akatsuki Leader and the second statue guy having a connection, maybe the Leader is the son or grandson or some descendant of the statue guy, continuing his ancestor's work.

This coincides with another part of the theory I thought. Suppose When Shodai fought mystery man, he thought he killed him, and left, reporting that the man was dead. What if he survived? Or, another possibility, the mystery man escaped the battle alive and Shodai still said he died, to not panic people or something. Either way, if this man did survive and was an Uchiha, that could explain how there could be a 3rd Mangekyo user out there, a SECOND lineage of Uchiha blood. All this could be what was written on the secret scroll that Itachi told Sasuke about.

Damn I love this manga.

[EdwardElric]

Saruman was 8 years old when Konoha was made

lol you said Saruman :P
I always thought one was Shodai and the other Nidaime, but now I'm not so sure... oh well, hopefully everything will be explained in due time.

[j_god]

yeah this is true.. i mean it is easier to prove that this is the beginnings of akatsuki but we cannot really say if the other guy is really an uchiha until the writers give us more clues right?

[j_god]

well another weird thought.. what if this is where the sharingan truly evolved out from byakugan!! and this is where the pure form of sharingan came to be.. the mengokyou

[j_god]

yup yup.. the theory is getting clearer.. someone had to have told itachi about the secret place where to know the unlocking of the sharingan.. someone who knew the secret and had it as well right? i mean i was thinking that the akatsuki leader knew about this and picked itachi... made itachi kill everyone and leave one uchiha to continue the saga..

[silent_speech]

hmmm, nice theory, although the guy from the statue would be really old and would most probably weak...

however, maybe that Uchiha-like statue guy WASN'T the third Mange Sharingan user; maybe he had a son somewhere who inherited his will (go for power and stuff like that) who attained his Mange Sharingan on his own(prolly for power, heh). This would make that man around Tsunade's age, and that would explain how he *could* be the most powerful AKatsuki of all due to experience and increased skill.

AND THEN he (the exiled Uchiha) could easily go to Konohagakure, pose as an Uchiha there, find Itachi and see his potential to achieve the Mange Sharingan, and for some reason teaches him how to attain the Mange Sharingan.

But as stated by Arcanis, this would make the Uchiha clan way too old... maybe the first Hyuuga was a part of another village, and maybe that was the place where the Uchiha clan was born. And maybe Shodaime, a resident of that village, decided to escape and start a new village which centered around the people, and he brought Nidaime (his brother) and the other ninjas like the Hyuugas and the newly born Uchihas.

However, a certain person from the early Uchiha clan wants revenge against their former village, and so wants a village which centers around military power so they can invade their former village. Shodaime, being a kind of people person, disagreed with him, which prompted the early Uchiha to run away from the village. Shodaime could have followed him and stopped him at the place known as the Valley of the End, where he tries to convince him to go back. The early Uchiha declines and starts attacking Shodaime, who then defends himself.

They fight for a while and end with a stalemate, leaving them to go their separate ways.

[Jiraiya_sama]

Who's that legendary shinobi which was defeated 60 years ago by Shodaime? His hair are much alike Sasuke's.

http://img54.exs.cx/img54/8241/bscap0076uf.jpg

http://img54.exs.cx/img54/4973/bscap0089as.jpg

Could these statues have a deeper meaning? like history repeating...
Naruto is the heir of Konoha Hokages
Sasuke is the heir of the Uchihas

discuss

[Jiraiya_sama]

http://img54.exs.cx/img54/706/bscap0093hx.jpg

http://img54.exs.cx/img54/2756/bscap0102kf.jpg

http://img54.exs.cx/img54/1560/bscap0127ob.jpg

[DrunkenYoshimaster]

Just out of curiosity was it ever confirmed the other statue was shodaime. Sure looks enough like him, but last time I referred to him as such I think it was someone here who said "theres no proof of that!" anyway yeah I think its probably an Uchiha and the symbolic meaning is he fought with his best freind who would become Hokage in a sad battle that seems to have erased one from history for the most part. So its a rather somber and historic place for Naruto and Sasuke to have a similar confrontation.

[Invisus]

Personally I think an Uchiha and Shodaime had a big fight to see who would take over as Kage of Konoha and when the Uchiha guy lost he was like "I will get my revenge" or 'the city will be mine" and then went off to develop the Mangekyou Sharingan and that is the secret of the Sharingan.

It's to destroy Konoha or take it over >.>

[Jiraiya_sama]

it is confirmed in the databook
shodai fought this legendary shinodi 60yrs ago and ended the era of war as a result by uniting the fire country, then he founded the hidden shinobi village of Konoha

[Invisus]

Another thing is that the Uchiha specialize in fire jutsu's and since that is the fire country, the Uchiha's might have been the shinobi living in the fire country when Shodai came and there was a fight over exactly what was going to happen within the country.

[Code]

I don't think it's anything Uchiha related. I do find it odd how Konoha has bloodlines and well Hyuuga is Konoha's oldest bloodline and well Konoha isn't that old. So for uchiha which is rumored to have branched from the Hyuuga after a few years or whatever to exist before Konoha would make sense in the 'real world' but not from what is stated.

So no. I don't think it's a Uchiha. Probably just some legendary ninja possibly related to Shodaime maybe.

[Jiraiya_sama]

The Hyuuga and the Uchiha existed in the fire country long before the village of konoha was founded. So it's not Konoha's oldest bloodline but rather Fire country oldest bloodline.

[Ephemeral]

Might wanna add a spoiler to the title..

[Code]

The Hyuuga and the Uchiha existed in the fire country long before the village of konoha was founded. So it's not Konoha's oldest bloodline but rather Fire country oldest bloodline.
Well we dont' know that. All we know is that it was stated that it was "konoha's oldest bloodline." I'd rather not assume things.

Anyways Jiraiya and Yondaime have hair similar to that. Just his hair more pushed back. Konohamaru's hair is also like that. if the 3rd had bangs it would be like that.

[Ninja Genius]

Ah that's very clever Invisus. The on thing I noticed when seeing it is that it does look like Sasuke. That has to be intentional but when I first noticed that, I wrote it off to what Kakashi said about how Naruto and Sasuke are remarkably like the two. But now I'm more curious.

[RubyRawd]

Ya, it is great foreshadowing, i cant wait for more backstory.

[Jiraiya_sama]

And guess what....
I thought that this legendary shinobi might be the first Mangekyou Sharigan!!
It is said he's been defeated but not that he died.
Altho he should be very old (+80yo) who knows
If he is the third Uchiha alive, he might as well be the leader of akatsuki :amuse
of course no clue to back up this excet those spikey hair.

[gallacher]

Those 2 statues reminds me of THAT 2 statues in Lord of The Rings...

[Snoopyboy]

you mean 2 towers?

[silverwings]

you mean 2 towers?

I think he means these statues:

http://www.impawards.com/2001/posters/lord_of_the_rings_the_fellowship_of_the_ring_ver3. jpg

[Ninja Genius]

umm...no I don't think he means those "statues" but I think I'll go see their larget galleries of movie posters

[Grave]

Personally I think an Uchiha and Shodaime had a big fight to see who would take over as Kage of Konoha and when the Uchiha guy lost he was like "I will get my revenge" or 'the city will be mine" and then went off to develop the Mangekyou Sharingan and that is the secret of the Sharingan.

It's to destroy Konoha or take it over >.>

I like this theory, because it works along with another theory I posted here, stating that one of the ancient Uchiha made a pact with a demon in order to strengthen his clan, thus giving them the enhanced bloodline. It's an interesting thought for sure, and many of the Uchiha seem to be drawn and portrayed as darker characters.

[Ninja Genius]

Plus it's sorta backed up with the manga. Didn't anyone else notice how sneaky, fugaku was acting towards Konoha. He was like pressuring Itachi to tell him about the secret mission he took on as an anbu. The line about him being the link that connects them to the village also implies this to me.

[Jiraya-sensei]

nice theorys
cant put my finger on anything
but its quite exciting to see the pictures u posted, imo it cant be all coincidences (spelled wrong i know)

[Shinobi No Kami]

it is confirmed in the databook
shodai fought this legendary shinodi 60yrs ago and ended the era of war as a result by uniting the fire country, then he founded the hidden shinobi village of Konoha
What is confirmed in the databook? That Shoudaime fought some legendary nin at the Valley of the End?

IMO:
The other statue is Nidaime. Isn't it obvious? He simply had longer hair!

Why did they fight?They didn't.

Who did? Jiraiya and Oro.

Why put their statues there? coz its at the border of Konoha. They had to put some marker there. Why not the statues of Konoha's founders? The statues were there to mark the border, not commemorate the fight. It just so happened that Jiraiya and Oro had an all-out fight in that same place.

[Cirbo]

In the chapters where Naruto and Saskue fight you see the two sculptures, it seems that one is the first. But I think it might be jiraya and oro the hair is right and we know their lives are similar (what kakashi said). I seriously hope it's not oro + jiraya cause we already know they are like naruto and saksue. I think if nothing is mentioned about it it means that it was those two.

[malfurion]

It's probably not, since those two people wear armor type of clothing similar to First and Second, they seem to be from a time period before Jiraya and Oro.

[lwong81]

It can't be Jiraiya and oro, because last time I check, they didn't start the Leaf, and I believe one of them started the village.

[Limitles Shadow]

No, it is not Jiraiya and Orochimaru.

[AsanoHa]

Ummm, we already no for sure the straight-haired one is Shodaime because well... it looks exactly like him and pretty sure it was stated indirectly. The one with hair similar to CS lvl2 Sasuke is the real mystery.

[minou]

^ yeah i agree the second is still a mystery

[Shinobi No Kami]

My theory (I've posted this in several threads already):

The statues: Shoudaime and Nidaime

proof: armor-type gear; one of them is obviously Shoudaime; the other one is simply Nidaime with longer hair

Who fought: Jiraiya and Oro
proof:

1. Jiraiya's flashback: he had to convince Oro not to leave Konoha. Apparently, they fought.

2. The location of the valley is in the border with the Sound. It would be reasonable to infer that that is the location where Jiraiya lost to Oro.

3. Kakashi: their lives are very similar to Sasuke's and Naruto's. Who else would he be referring to? Kakashi would be too young to know alot about Shoudaime and Nidaime. Besides, why would they fight? If it is was Shoudaime and some mysterious nin, it would be remarkable that Kakashi knew the details about their lives.

Ironing out some problems:

1. Why construct statues of Shoudaime and Nidaime instead of Jiraiya and Oro?
Oro and Jiraiya fought. Their battle created the valley. Let's leave it at that. Some time after that, the Sound country was established. Konoha and/or Oto had to erect some kind of marker. Why not construct cool statues of the founders of Konoha?

2. "They were the founders of Konoha.", that's what Kakashi supposedly said right? *somebody pls post the page* I don't think that is exactly true. I think its more like "They were instrumental to the survival of Konoha.". That description fits Oro and Jiraiya.

other theories:
Shoudaime vs Akatsuki leader
Shoudaime vs legendary Suna nin
legenadry Uchiha vs legendary Hyuuga
a hole in these theories: how would Kakashi know about the deatils of their lives?

[dryller]

I think its the 1st and maybe the 1st kazekage or something. In the manga, it justs says that Konoha was built to mark the battle. It doesn't say anything about the 2 men built Konoha.

[AsanoHa]

My theory (I've posted this in several threads already):

The statues: Shoudaime and Nidaime

proof: armor-type gear; one of them is obviously Shoudaime; the other one is simply Nidaime with longer hair

Who fought: Jiraiya and Oro
proof:

1. Jiraiya's flashback: he had to convince Oro not to leave Konoha. Apparently, they fought.

2. The location of the valley is in the border with the Sound. It would be reasonable to infer that that is the location where Jiraiya lost to Oro.

3. Kakashi: their lives are very similar to Sasuke's and Naruto's. Who else would he be referring to? Kakashi would be too young to know alot about Shoudaime and Nidaime. Besides, why would they fight? If it is was Shoudaime and some mysterious nin, it would be remarkable that Kakashi knew the details about their lives.

Ironing out some problems:

1. Why construct statues of Shoudaime and Nidaime instead of Jiraiya and Oro?
Oro and Jiraiya fought. Their battle created the valley. Let's leave it at that. Some time after that, the Sound country was established. Konoha and/or Oto had to erect some kind of marker. Why not construct cool statues of the founders of Konoha?

2. "They were the founders of Konoha.", that's what Kakashi supposedly said right? *somebody pls post the page* I don't think that is exactly true. I think its more like "They were instrumental to the survival of Konoha.". That description fits Oro and Jiraiya.

other theories:
Shoudaime vs Akatsuki leader
Shoudaime vs legendary Suna nin
legenadry Uchiha vs legendary Hyuuga
a hole in these theories: how would Kakashi know about the deatils of their lives?

OK that wouldn't work because no one knew Orochimaru was behind the Sound. Plus what would be the point of making Nidaime's hair longer. Plus it's said/inferred that the people who fought were the ones who the statues represent. I'm thinking that maybe the statues are Shodaime and his best friend. These two were leading the people who founded Konoha, but Shodaime and his friend had different ideas about what Konoha should be all about so they fought over who would lead the people, Shodaime won.

[Shinobi No Kami]

OK that wouldn't work because no one knew Orochimaru was behind the Sound.
What does that got to do with anything?
Plus what would be the point of making Nidaime's hair longer.
Why not? It looks cooler. Hair growth is nothing astounding right?
Plus it's said/inferred that the people who fought were the ones who the statues represent.
I don't see how you can prove conclusively that the statues were the ones who fought. The Statue of Liberty in New York shows a lady holding a torch. Does it infer that an actual lady with a torch stood there?
I'm thinking that maybe the statues are Shodaime and his best friend. These two were leading the people who founded Konoha, but Shodaime and his friend had different ideas about what Konoha should be all about so they fought over who would lead the people, Shodaime won.
Again, the biggest problem with the "Shoudaime vs mystery nin" theories:
How the hell does Kakashi know about them? Shoudaime probably died when Kakashi was not even born. Why would Kakashi have special knowledge of this mystery nin? How are their lives similar to Naruto and Sasuke, Oro and Jiraiya fits that description perfectly.

To paraphrase a principle used in scientific investigation:
If their are two possibilities and the available information cannot prove or disprove either of them, the one that is simpler tends to be true.

I just don't see how the "Shoudaime vs mystery nin" theory can be simpler than Oro vs Jiraiya.

[Marsala]

But Orochimaru and Jiraiya fought in some forest, not the Valley of the End. And Kakashi said, "To mark that battle, Konoha was built..." or something similar, so the battle definitely happened before the founding of Konoha or in its very early years. So it couldn't possibly be Orochimaru and Jiraiya.

[Fenomenet]

Hmm me and my friends also had a wild discussion about this one.

We came up with the idea that it could be the 1st Mizukage and the 1st Hokage.
We thought that the waterfall was the border to water country. But we can be wrong.

[Shinobi No Kami]

But Orochimaru and Jiraiya fought in some forest, not the Valley of the End.
That's why the scar of the battle resulted in the formation of the Valley. The battle itself created the valley.
And Kakashi said, "To mark that battle, Konoha was built..." or something similar, so the battle definitely happened before the founding of Konoha or in its very early years. So it couldn't possibly be Orochimaru and Jiraiya.
That's why we need somebody to post the page. I lost my file and my internet connection is too damn slow.

Anyway, I think Kakashi said "To mark that battle, Konoha has built these statues".

Even if it said Konoha was built as a result of that battle, the Oro vs Jiraiya theory can still make sense. It is possible that Konoha was rebuilt several times due to war. Konoha suffered great damage because Oro left them. Jiraiya's loss to Oro can be partially be blamed for the great loss.

EDIT:
We came up with the idea that it could be the 1st Mizukage and the 1st Hokage.
We thought that the waterfall was the border to water country. But we can be wrong.
You are wrong, the valley was the border to the Sound country.

[Tenderfoot]

I remember it mentioned that the first and the second made that river during their fight, so its by 100% logic them.....the stautues made after the people who made the river.

[i_nois_]

Well actualy it was said that after that fight Konoha was established, so it is SURELY the first hokage. I don't know who is the other guy but I think it might be the first Kazekage or something... but I'm not sure about that since it could be someone else that we don't know yet or we won't know never.
Perhaps it was a guy that had a relationship with the first similar to that one that Naruto and Sasuke had.

[Shinobi No Kami]

I remember it mentioned that the first and the second made that river during their fight, so its by 100% logic them.....the stautues made after the people who made the river.
WTF? Where was that said? It would help if you posted the page.

[Splintered]

I'm thinking the first and second, weren't they siblings or something? The spikey haired guy does look like the second.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/SSsan/stat.gif

They're personalities were opposite, so I can see why they fought a lot. But the 1rst is suppose to be gentle and I don't see anyone being really gentle. The seond is like a mix of the two though.

[Shinobi No Kami]

I'm thinking the first and second, weren't they siblings or something? The spikey haired guy does look like the second.

Its almost certain that the statues are Shoudaime and Nidaime. However, does it mean that they fought and as a result, the valley was formed? Why would they fight? How does Kakashi know about them, there were more than generation older than him?

Finally somebody posted the page. The controversial statement seems to be :"The ones who share the fate of these statues..Konoha village was built.". Once again, its a case of bad tranalation or the usual cryptic grammatical structure unique to Kishimoto.

I can think of this paraphrase:
The ones who share the fate of these statues built Konoha.

I don't see where many people got the "the guys who fought were the founders of Konoha" thing.

[dlo62282]

Kakashi knowing about the details.....should not be a reason for it not the be the first and a mystery nin. Because that is why they have history class. These story could have been past down easily.

Also the Anbu during the oro and third fight, that one anbu knew all about the first and second.

Also one of the statutes have a konoha forehead protector on which looks like the first and the other nin has no foreheadprotector on.

If it was the first and second, they would both have them on.

[mlc76]

There is absolutely no way the second statue is Nidaime. If it were Nidaime, Kishi wouldn't make him look completely different than every other picture of Nidaime we've seen. Kakashi probably knows because it's become legend. No one who is young in Konoha knows about the use of the bijyuu, it's not surprising to think Kakashi might also know about some other stuff that Naruto & Co. simply haven't found out yet. It's fairly obvious that it's the 1st and his "best friend," who apparently fought like Sasuke and Naruto.

[Jyuken]

Obviously Kakashi knows about it because the guy founded his village, I'm pretty sure the story of how Konoha was founded has been told and re-told an infinite amount of times to the children of Konoha.

[Shinobi No Kami]

Obviously Kakashi knows about it because the guy founded his village, I'm pretty sure the story of how Konoha was founded has been told and re-told an infinite amount of times to the children of Konoha.
That must be why the ANBU watching the Oro vs Sandaime fight had difficulty recognizing Shoudaime and Nidaime.

[Kazekage_Shinagami]

The second statue may be the grandfather of jiraiya, but it's far more likely to be shoudiame's rival, like Kakashi "it's amazing how similar they are" refering to N&S compared to shou and mystery shinobi. hopefully kishi will clearify it further soon maybe sand grandma knows how they were and will make the connection if she lives to see sasuke

[josh_x]

Shinobi No Kami your theory has too many holes to be reasonable

[enkay]

That must be why the ANBU watching the Oro vs Sandaime fight had difficulty recognizing Shoudaime and Nidaime.

they didn't. one ANBU was like "Who are they?" and he was immediatly answered by the white robed ANBU, the first and the second.

also, i don't understand why people think the two statues are the first and the second and they fought. that makes no sense. the first is credited with the founding of Konoha and it has been stated that the battle at the Valley of the End was before the founding of Konoha.

[Akodo Kimimaro]

Those statues are Shodaime and probably the Kazekage from his time. i Think that kinda acts like a border between the countrys, that's why it has a statue of each.
Lol, i dont intend to be rude and all, i kinda like your theories but why dont you think in the most simple of things instead of thinking in some big conspiracy lol like the Orochimaru and Jiraya one. :D

[Shinobi No Kami]

they didn't. one ANBU was like "Who are they?" and he was immediatly answered by the white robed ANBU, the first and the second.

The ANBU captain recognized Shoudaime and Nidaime, the other two ANBU had absolutely no idea who the hell they are.

[enkay]

The ANBU captain recognized Shoudaime and Nidaime, the other two ANBU had absolutely no idea who the hell they are.

maybe that's why he was the captain :D plus, i think that was just added in for the sake of introducing them to the readers. it isn't anything to read into.

[Kazekage_Shinagami]

in respose to akodo:

Why would the kazekage be on the boader between the fire and sound countries??

[dlo62282]

the sound is not a country......there is no sound country....there is a village of sound inside of a country.
That country sound is in might actually be the wind country. The sand village is inside the wind country as well.

[Shinobi No Kami]

the sound is not a country......there is no sound country....there is a village of sound inside of a country.
There is a Sound country, its just that its new and its not one of the original 5 great countries.
That country sound is in might actually be the wind country. The sand village is inside the wind country as well.
What? Where did you pull that from? A quick look at the NarutoWorld map should be informative for you.

[deejung]

it can't be the second because they fought before the konoha was established. In the flashback, when the first and second was talking to the third, they both had the leaf forehead protector. i doubt that they would make a statue of the first and second, and only one of them is made with the protector. or maybe its just me

[dlo62282]

there is no sound country!! what are u talking about? There is a sound village. There is a difference. Konoha is a village that is inside the country of fire. The sand village is inside the country of Wind.

You mean the 5 great shinobi villages. Not countries. There is a difference.

[korican04]

The real question would be WHY would the kazekage be fighting between the Country of Fire and the Country of Lighting or Cloud, IF when those people who the statues represent fought at the time no sound country existed. the wind country is at the other end of the fire country.

[Shinobi No Kami]

there is no sound country!! what are u talking about? There is a sound village. There is a difference. Konoha is a village that is inside the country of fire. The sand village is inside the country of Wind.

The village is Sound is inside the Wind country?!! You do know that Wind country is the Sand right? Have you even seen the NarutoWorld map?

Somebody help me out here! This dude seems to truly believe that the Sound country is nonexistent. He also thinks that the Sound is in the Wind country!

[korican04]

The village is Sound is inside the Wind country?!! You do know that Wind country is the Sand right? Have you even seen the NarutoWorld map?

Somebody help me out here! This dude seems to truly believe that the Sound country is nonexistent. He also thinks that the Sound is in the Wind country!
i just answered that question on the previous post :laugh


but here is a map anyways

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/NarutoMap.jpg

I don't know if there is a sound country but more where the sound village is in. We don't know the exact name of the "sound country" we just call it that. But yeah the sound village definitely is in a larger country which could be called the "sound country". :confused

as you can see the fire country has the leaf symbol, and we know that it's called the fire country. The sound village is in some country that we don't know the name of.

The akatsuki batcave is in that land between the fire and the wind country i believe.

[dlo62282]

i said the sound could POSSIBLE be inside the wind country. We do not know what country the sound village is in.

Either your just not understanding what im saying, just clueless, or im not explaining myself fully. We know for sure the SAND village is inside the Wind country. We know for sure The leaf village is inside the Fire country. We dont know what country the sound village is in. I said it could possible be in the wind country or it could be in its own different country.

But i guess the sound village could be in the sound country. lol :)

[korican04]

i said the sound could POSSIBLE be inside the wind country. We do not know what country the sound village is in.

Either your just not understanding what im saying, just clueless, or im not explaining myself fully. We know for sure the SAND village is inside the Wind country. We know for sure The leaf village is inside the Fire country. We dont know what country the sound village is in. I said it could possible be in the wind country or it could be in its own different country.

But i guess the sound village could be in the sound country. lol :)
Well kohona seems to know where the sound village is. In order to go into kohona the sound nins needed passports for the chunnin exam. So we do know the relative location of the Sound Village. Kabuto showed it to us. We just don't know the name of the country it is in. and we know it's not in the wind country because we know that the sound village is on the opposite end of the fire coutnry that the wind country is in.

btw were you replying to me or the other dude.

[Khanaris]

For that matter, we don't know if it is in a country. As far as we have seen, big tracts of the Naruto world are pretty empty, and there might not be any real population there. The map indicates that Sound does control some of the geography, but we don't know where they are within that space. We actually don't even know where Konoha is, since they just put the symbols in the middle of each country rather than on the locations of the hidden villages (because they are hidden).

Whoever the other statue represents, he lived long before the Sound was established. It is possible that his defeat by the First was what allowed Konoha to be formed. Here is a thought. Perhaps the first Hokage was leading his people away from another hidden village, and there was a fight with the other shinobi from that place. Maybe the current sound village is built on the ruins of that older village. It does look older than it should be if Oro built it himself in the time since he left Konoha.

Anyone else notice how sound is the only Hidden Village whose name doesn't make sense literally? Konoha is hidden in a forest, Mist is hidden in the mist, Suna in the desert, etc. The ones we haven't seen could still apply, i.e. hidden in the clouds or in caves. What does it mean to be hidden in sound?

[Hefty ol' Granny]

http://webpost.net/ph/pho3nix/statue03.jpg

As most people already mentioned, the one on the right is defintely Shodaime.

http://webpost.net/ph/pho3nix/nidaime02.jpg http://webpost.net/ph/pho3nix/statue01.jpg

I never thought of the one on the left as Nidaime. I just can't see the similarities. That mysterious guy is probably an "eternal rival" of the First. Maybe it's just me, but he resembles a bit of Sasuke... I hope they will say a little bit more of this tale.

[Shinobi No Kami]

I just don't see how hair growth seems to be such an unbelievable phenomenon in NarutoWorld.

[Lafiel4]

It's Shodaime and someone else who was a very good friend to him, but they fought each other for some reason (perhaps the same reason Naruto fought Sasuke). We know this much from Kakashi's marvelling at the similarities between the two incidents.

The implication is the second guy died in the fight, and Shodaime didn't, but regardless of the aftermath of that fight, Shodaime survived to help found the hidden village of konoha.

To not even concede that one of the statues is Shodaime is really just... :wink

It's not Nidaime because, first, it doesn't look like him at all. There's has never been any allusion or inference of bad blood between Sho and Nidaime. Really, bringing up one ANBU member's inability to immediately discern the identities of dead corpses has no bearing whatsoever on the identity of the second statue. Again, it would make sense that the second statue was a former good friend of Shodaime and probably lost his life in their fight, tragically. (Seems odd you'd erect statues if both people lived.)

[graysocks]

I just don't see how hair growth seems to be such an unbelievable phenomenon in NarutoWorld.

Well mainly because hair in anime is one of the main features to define characters and generally they don't change unless the character changes too (Sakura cutting her hair). Along with the fact he looks nothing like Nidaime i don't think it's him.

[xer0]

That's why the scar of the battle resulted in the formation of the Valley. The battle itself created the valley.

That's why we need somebody to post the page. I lost my file and my internet connection is too damn slow.

Anyway, I think Kakashi said "To mark that battle, Konoha has built these statues".

Even if it said Konoha was built as a result of that battle, the Oro vs Jiraiya theory can still make sense. It is possible that Konoha was rebuilt several times due to war. Konoha suffered great damage because Oro left them. Jiraiya's loss to Oro can be partially be blamed for the great loss.

EDIT:

You are wrong, the valley was the border to the Sound country.

WHERE DOES IT SAY IN THE MANGA, THAT JIRAIYAI LOST TO OROCHIMARU!?

STOP GIVING FALSE INFORMATION!

And regards to who it could be... it's neither Jiraiyai or Orochimaru... it was way before Konoha was founded.

The only person it could be, is the First Hokage and someone else. Not his brother, the second Hokage.

What reason would there be, for them to fight so intensely, as to create such a scar.

Think logically, and read your manga!

[GSurge]

Judging by the gear they are wearing, it's more likely that they were former teammates, like Naruto and Sasuke.

[Shinobi No Kami]

WHERE DOES IT SAY IN THE MANGA, THAT JIRAIYAI LOST TO OROCHIMARU!?

STOP GIVING FALSE INFORMATION!

Jiraiya tried to stop Oro from leaving Konoha like Naruto tried to stop Sasuke. Apparently, they fought since Oro was shown charging at Jiraiya. Does it really take an Einstein to conclude that Jiraiya lost that battle since Oro is not in Konoha anymore?

To quote you:
Think logically, and read your manga!

[kaizouku]

I think its inconclusive whether Jiraiya lost the fight since it was not explictly shown in the manga. Maybe Orochimaru manage to create a distraction to flee.

[Duttyman Momochi]

umm there is such a thing as a retreat.. not because oro is not in leaf anymore meant that he won.. i would rather conclude that it was a draw or jiraiya won cause if oro won he would have killed jiraiya..

it is clear that the valley of the end was not made by oro and jiraiya.. otherwise they would have statues there of oro and jiraiya..

and it is nnot hard accept that they do have history class in the naruto world.. not because it is not mentioned meansthat the rest of konoha doesnt know about the valley battle

[Sharingan_Chan]

Well, as said before, the statue on the left really looks nothing like the second hokage. If Kishimoto meant for that ninja to be the second he would have drawn him to look more like him(like he drew the statue on the right to look like the first). I just don't see why Kishimoto would draw the first hokage accurately but not the second. It doesn't make sense for the statue on the right to be the second.

[xer0]

Jiraiya tried to stop Oro from leaving Konoha like Naruto tried to stop Sasuke. Apparently, they fought since Oro was shown charging at Jiraiya. Does it really take an Einstein to conclude that Jiraiya lost that battle since Oro is not in Konoha anymore?

To quote you:
Think logically, and read your manga!

I have nothing against you... but leaking false information like that is pointless without facts.

I would agree with most that it was a draw... and if Oro had won, he would have killed Jiraiyai.

I'm not Einstein but the fans here... are on the same track as me.

[Nidaime-Sama]

From the second databook:
"Shodai's younger brother, who greatly contributed to Konoha's establishment as a system. In contrast to his calm older brother, his nature is to push forward towards his objective with passion and enthusiasm. He is prideful of his superior combat ability, and with the Suiton jutsu which he was especially
skilful at he was unexpectedly revived in the present to defeat Sandaime, which put fear in the people of Konoha".

-It seems the 2nd's personalty resembles Naruto and the 1st Hokage's personalty resembles Sasuke.
-The 1st and 2nd are actual brothers and Naruto and Sasuke consider each other their brothers.
-When the battle was compelted the Leaf Village was created and both 1st and 2nd are credited for co-creating the Leaf Village.

From the 1st databook:
"Shodaime and Nidaime were actually brothers! Sixty years ago, Shodaime led a group of shinobi to this lush forestland and found the Hidden Leaf Village. Unfortunately during that chaotic era, he passed away shortly after the creation of the village. Nidaime inherited his older brother's will and was responsible for the creation of the ninja academy and others organizations within the village. The great ninja war broke out afterwards; in his dying moment, Nidaime instructed the future generation to pacify the war and ensure the village's prosperity. "

[Shinobi No Kami]

I would agree with most that it was a draw... and if Oro had won, he would have killed Jiraiyai.

How could it be a draw? If it were a draw, Oro should still be in Konoha.
Let me break it down for you:
Oro wins: what happens it what Oro wants to happen (Oro leaves)
Jiraiya wins: what happens is what Jiraiya wants to happen (Oro stays)
Draw: the present state of things remain (Oro stays), nothing changes

Oro would have killed Jiraiya? You mean like Sasuke would've killed Naruto? Back then, Oro might still see Jiraiya as a friend. Its unlikely that Oro would kill him.

Jiraiya lost like Naruto lost to Sasuke. Is it me or are some people missing the "history repeats itself" theme in Oro/Jiraiya and Sasuke /Naruto?

[Shisui]

Anyone else notice how sound is the only Hidden Village whose name doesn't make sense literally? Konoha is hidden in a forest, Mist is hidden in the mist, Suna in the desert, etc. The ones we haven't seen could still apply, i.e. hidden in the clouds or in caves. What does it mean to be hidden in sound?

Well, the "hidden" part of the village names is slightly ambiguous in Japanese. The full Japanese name of Konoha, for instance, is Konohagakure no Sato, which can mean the village hidden by leaves (foliage/tree leaves, specifically) or it can mean the village of hidden leaves (i.e. leaves that are hidden). So Otogakure could mean "hidden by sound", but it can also mean "hidden sound" or "hidden sounds," which I think is pretty appropriate, considering how Hidden Sound Village resembles a snake's burrow.

[graysocks]

How could it be a draw? If it were a draw, Oro should still be in Konoha.
Let me break it down for you:
Oro wins: what happens it what Oro wants to happen (Oro leaves)
Jiraiya wins: what happens is what Jiraiya wants to happen (Oro stays)
Draw: the present state of things remain (Oro stays), nothing changes


I doubt that Oro would stay in Konoha if he lost. For a start he was on the run and had killed loads of Kohona ninjas as it was and can you see Oro taking orders because he lost a battle?

Even saying this i think it was Oro that won. Kishimoto likes to repeat events and i would say Oro won the same way Sasuke did.

[Duttyman Momochi]

and left jiraiya alive??? does oro really seem likethat type?

[kguren]

its shodai and sum dude we havent seen, and it NOT jiraiya and oro, doesnt look like them, they dun wear that armor and wouldnt good guy(jiraiya) kinda be on the fire country side rather than the other side? and sounds in rice country or sumthin right?

[Sho]

I really hope Kishimoto explains these two characters who fought in the Valley of the End. I'm definitely certain that the first one is Shodai Hokage, but the other one obviously isn't Nidaime, so I'm wondering who it is. Hopefully there'll be a gaiden to explain them later on, or maybe another entry in the next databook would be good.

My theory is that the second figure was the leader of the Uchiha clan or a rebel who went away. I'm thinking he and Shodai were friends, like Naruto and Sasuke as well. The parallels between the 2 statues and Sasuke and Naruto are too obvious to be coincidence, not to mention the second statue looks like a grown-up Sasuke with longer hair, so I'm thinking he was an Uchiha. Possibly the first Mangekyou user, or the one who established the Uchihas as the strongest clan.

[Yakushi~Kabuto]

K, you know how Kakashi said that the two warriors that fought there were remarkably similar to Naruto and Sasuke? Keep that in mind as you read my theory here.

One of those carvings was definitely Shodai. The other, to me at least, had hair that greatly resembled Level 2 Sasuke's hair. I think that was meant to be symbolic. Naruto = Shodai, Sasuke = The other one.

So, with Kakashi's comment on how similar they were, does that mean that, perhaps during Konoha's founding, Shodai had a great comrade helping him (Perhaps an Uchiha), that disagreed with Shodai and Nidaime's ways and decided to rebel, and that's where the two had some great battle? Then, that unnamed comrade, assuming Shodai didn't kill him, started his own way of doing things elsewhere. Maybe he was responsible for the beginnings of Akatsuki?I do believe that statue was an Uchiha too
the hair are too much like Sasuke's

If proven right, he was probably the head of the Uchiha clan who tried to take the control of the fire country. Shodaime probably had to stop him to unify the fire country & he then took the remaining Uchihas into the village (have your foes close to you to keep an eye on them)

We could know more about it once we hear about the "true purpose" of the sharingan

[Marsala]

I really hope Kishimoto explains these two characters who fought in the Valley of the End. I'm definitely certain that the first one is Shodai Hokage, but the other one obviously isn't Nidaime, so I'm wondering who it is. Hopefully there'll be a gaiden to explain them later on, or maybe another entry in the next databook would be good.

My theory is that the second figure was the leader of the Uchiha clan or a rebel who went away. I'm thinking he and Shodai were friends, like Naruto and Sasuke as well. The parallels between the 2 statues and Sasuke and Naruto are too obvious to be coincidence, not to mention the second statue looks like a grown-up Sasuke with longer hair, so I'm thinking he was an Uchiha. Possibly the first Mangekyou user, or the one who established the Uchihas as the strongest clan.
I think both those ideas could be true; he might be the Uchiha ancestor who founded the Konoha police force. Did he kill Shodai, thus gaining Itachi's form of Mangekyou Sharingan, then return to Konoha in remorse? Is Danzou his student just as Sandaime was Shodai's?

[Lexiefaye]

I won't repeat the discussed theories because of 291 spoilers but anyone who's interested: http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?p=2903788#post2903788

[mnorth]

I believe the Valley of the End will be the ending setting of Naruto.

[BlackCoven]

I believe the Valley of the End will be the ending setting of Naruto.
lol, as fitting as any I suppose :amuse

[ItsMrJedi]

I dont think that the Akatsuki Leader is someone from Konoha, he didnt even know Maito Gai.

[Lexiefaye]

I dont think that the Akatsuki Leader is someone from Konoha, he didnt even know Maito Gai.

If the Akatsuki Leader was from Konoha he would have left a long time ago so he wouldn't have known Gai anyway ...

[Tykazi]

Well, I'm going to end the debate about the other Ninja being the First Kazekage, or any Kazekage for that matter. Page 8 from chapter 266. You can clearly see that none of the Kazekages even slightly resemble the other statue, or atleast I see no resemblence. Feel free to disagree.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/13/chapter266081bc.th.png (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chapter266081bc.png)

If I had to guess on the identity of the other statue, I'd say he was a friend of Shodai's, of equal power.

[Windforce]

maybe Kakashi was referring to Jiraya and Oro?

[ThousandYearsOfPain]

If you are not current with manga don't read this.

In the recent mangas Sai is said to be in the "Roots" division, and his master happened to go up against the third when the position of sandaime came up.
He talks to Tsunade about how her grandfather was a coward or something and was the type to sign peace treaties or something like that instead of using force. Maybe the statue facing Shodaime was a person that wanted to use force/fighting/war instead of negotiations/peace. So there was a fight between the Shodaime and other person. However these two guys are friends in the sense that naruto and sasuke are friends. Sasuke wants to use force/gain power to achieve his goal, Naruto likes to talk and seems to have to result to force many times. And so when Shodaime and other guy fought, the other guy probably lost and left.

[slashez]

who's to say that the two statues of the two people represent shodai and someone he fought directly? Why cant it be that the statues represent two people who fought together (first and second hokages, they were brothers who both fought the same fight to end the third ninja war and help konoha prosper). So it seems logical (to me at least) that the statues are of the first and second hokages, honoring their efforts in fighting alongside one another to try to stop the ninja wars. Which fits along with Kakashi's simile to the river representing an endless battle and the irony of naruto and sasuke fighting there. Basically saying that its ironic because despite the brother's efforts, there are still wars going on between ninja's both inside and outside of the country of fire, and these wars between ninja's will in fact never stop

[gunste1n]

I saw a person with the kings of valley in his sig, pointing out Shodaime and Akatsuki leader ?? Sounds fake, he would be dead by now....., right ?
OR orochimaru has been thaught the technique of immortality

[Lexiefaye]

I saw a person with the kings of valley in his sig, pointing out Shodaime and Akatsuki leader ?? Sounds fake, he would be dead by now....., right ?
OR orochimaru has been thaught the technique of immortality

That me!!!!!, and I'm a girl by the way. According to this timeline, he would be in his 80's: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=821. The full theory is also posted by me there. There is also a thread to disprove this theory: http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=79418

Why cant it be that the statues represent two people who fought together (first and second hokages, they were brothers who both fought the same fight to end the third ninja war and help konoha prosper). So it seems logical (to me at least) that the statues are of the first and second hokages, honoring their efforts in fighting alongside one another to try to stop the ninja wars.

Let me start by quoting chapter 234:
Pakkum: It's ironic, isn't it?
Kakashi: It is said that long ago, two men fought here. From the scar caused by that fight, this river was formed. If you observe the flow ... it continues flowing, without ever stopping. To mark that battle ... Konoha village was built. The one's who share the fate of these statues ... Naruto and Sasuke ...Your lives are remarkably like theirs."

So according to Kakashi the battle took place before Konoha was founded so Shodai at least must have survived it ....

I never thought that the two statues could have been fighting together ... It's an interesting concept ... but they are facing eachother so I find it unlikely. I also find it unlikely the 2nd statue was Nidaime because unlike the 1st statue, he isn't wearing the Konoha headband ...

[telamonio]

Well I think that those are, one obviously Shodai Hokage and Kakashi states that those two where the founders of Konoha at the end of the battle between naruto and sasuke, and by the looks of the misterious shinobi he resembles an Uchiha, because it has the hairstyle of Sasuke when his curse seal is in level 2, so maybe he is the Uchiha who founded the Konoha Police and its maybe Madara, the Uchiha that was mentioned at the first episode of shippuden by the Kyubi. And maybe he is the first one to obtain the mangekyou Sharingan and the one who wrote how to obtain it. One thing is for sure that he is not the akatsuki leader because then the akatsuki leader would be like a hundred years old, one thing is certain he is an Uchiha. Maybe he went to the dark side after founding Konoha with shodai and was thirsty for power an then he killed shodai and obtained the mangekyou sharingan and bla bla bla, well those are speculations.


Certain points

*Those two were the founders of KOnoha
*One was Shodai
*Shodai and the other shinobi were rivals at one point of their lives or maybe forever
*The unknown resembles an Uchicha
*The unknown has his hair way too long for being Nidaime
*Shodai and Nidaime are seen tutoring Sandaime about the will of fire or something like that
*Shodai seems in his 30's when he was with Sandaime, and sandaime looked like konohamaru maybe of 10 years so if the rival of Shodai is alive he would have like 90 years old and the akatsuki leader has the voice of a not too old man xD

[uchihaXshinoda]

okay so ive wanted to comment on these thing for awhile now
so let me fill you in as i probly know more about naruto then anyone on this website

the other person in the statue is no other than uchiha madara (i bet you guys wern't expecting that)

the 3 : shodaime , nidaime and uchiha madara were fighting because uchiha madara did not want to stay in the village anymore and the 1st and the 2nd
tried to convince him to stay because all 3 were best friends (you guys didnt know that either)

to protect his yuonger brother shodaime knocked out nidaime while he fought
with uchiha madara at the end uchiha madara killed the first hokage and left the village no one knew what happened to him!

nidaime woke up once the battle had finished and realised that his brother was dead so he decided to make konoha progress and made the academy and other things around the village

later in the manga we find out that uchiha madara is still alive and guess what!
he is the true leader of akatsuki (you guys didnt know that either)
he is controlling payne the acting leader of akatsuki
also uchiha madara is pretending to be someone he isn't and that is TOBI (haha you guys alo didnt know about that)

well now you guys know what is happening
and just for those dumb people the other guy on the statue is an UCHIHA

peace XX

[curiousoggy]

LOL...!!! Can you prove any of your theories? Like how do you know how the battle went down the way you say it did? Who started the Konoha police then? since Madara left. Where does it say that Nidaime started Konoha?

I'm not going to ask the Madara=Tobi theory, too many gay threads about that already.

[uchihaXshinoda]

yes i can prove everything
its on a manga chapter
sandaime is telling konohamaru a story about how the first died and how konoha came to be and yes madara did start the police in the uchiha clan

[akaasher]

tobi is obito because
its obvious the statue at the VoTE is a UCHiha
the irony behind it (pakkun mentions the irony)
naruto vs sasuke
hokage vs uchiha

and the only uchiha we've heard off, so powerful, who could possibly be strong enough to rival
the first hokage would be....Uchiha madara. it isn't fan-fiction its a plot device

plus when the kyuubi talks of the uchiha clan, he refers to "anchestry"
and seeing eyes as sinister as his own in a certain uchiha madara.
that also screams madara is actually the 1st uchiha

the 1st kage had the power to supress bijuu, sasuke had the eyes to
supress the nine-tails chakra, eyes like the kyuubi has seen b4,
that's some rivally power. the rivalry of the 1st hokage and madara; VotE statues.

obito would be the only other live uchiha out there.
and c'mon one right eye sharingan???

that isn't a style its a disadvantage
and that slash he took from sasuke roughly the same fraction of his
body he had no feeling in it screams obito.

[ViЯaL]

i think madara is alive and it's him

[Hoshigaki_Kisame]

I must say, the OP has got be a psychic. The original post was made in February of 2005, and it seems to be dead-on with what has been shown thus far in the manga. Very very impressive.

[Uchiha_Madara09]

It is Uchiha Madara and Shodai. btw I don't think Tobi is saying that he is Madara who be about 100 years old.

Long story short, A demon king disguised himself as a human in order to be with this Hyuuga girl he was inlove with. They had a son, whiched they Madara. His byakugan was different than his mothers they evolved with the helped of his fathers blood. He was born with red eyes with additional pupils and could later activate MS. He was the best friend of Shodaime. Madara's father plotted to steal his sons body. Madara kneww even with MS he was no match for his father. He made a deal with Kyuubi to give him his powers to help him defeat his father. He couldn't kill his father so instead he sealed him thinking the conditions of resurrecting him impossible to anyone. The origin of Uchiha was recorded by Madara himself himself and was hidden in the shrine that You can see in the anime and manga a picture of Kyuubi in the shrine. Also in Shippuden sasuke gets ticked of when Kyuubi mentions Madara. The Uchiha believed it their duty to protec this secret of demon heritage from the rest of the village, look at how naruto was outcasted.To ressurect his father there needed to be 3 MS users each casting a respective MS Jutsu on the sealed entity. The Kyuubi's chakre must be used to resurrect him and one of the MS users would sacrifice their body as a container. I thought Itachi's plan was ressurect him. He said to sasuke when he killed the clan there another MS user out there (he didn't believe Kaskashi capable so I believed it was Obito) wanted sasuke to become the third so made him seek power. Finally his Jinchuriki target is Kyuubi.

[Hoshigaki_Kisame]

It is Uchiha Madara and Shodai. btw I don't think Tobi is saying that he is Madara who be about 100 years old.

Long story short, A demon king disguised himself as a human in order to be with this Hyuuga girl he was inlove with. They had a son, whiched they Madara. His byakugan was different than his mothers they evolved with the helped of his fathers blood. He was born with red eyes with additional pupils and could later activate MS. He was the best friend of Shodaime. Madara's father plotted to steal his sons body. Madara kneww even with MS he was no match for his father. He made a deal with Kyuubi to give him his powers to help him defeat his father. He couldn't kill his father so instead he sealed him thinking the conditions of resurrecting him impossible to anyone. The origin of Uchiha was recorded by Madara himself himself and was hidden in the shrine that You can see in the anime and manga a picture of Kyuubi in the shrine. Also in Shippuden sasuke gets ticked of when Kyuubi mentions Madara. The Uchiha believed it their duty to protec this secret of demon heritage from the rest of the village, look at how naruto was outcasted.To ressurect his father there needed to be 3 MS users each casting a respective MS Jutsu on the sealed entity. The Kyuubi's chakre must be used to resurrect him and one of the MS users would sacrifice their body as a container. I thought Itachi's plan was ressurect him. He said to sasuke when he killed the clan there another MS user out there (he didn't believe Kaskashi capable so I believed it was Obito) wanted sasuke to become the third so made him seek power. Finally his Jinchuriki target is Kyuubi.

thanks for copying and pasting from The Tengu Theory. Almost everyone in these forums has already read it.

[.ProFound.]

If tobi is madara(akatsuki shotcaller)
and the statue is madara

then it make sense

[Tyrannos]

Okay, who's the wise guy who bumped up this ancient post and argue things that havn't been proven yet? :notrust

[Hoshigaki_Kisame]

Okay, who's the wise guy who bumped up this ancient post and argue things that havn't been proven yet? :notrust

not me, haha. saw this and realized that the OP made this prediction in ferbruary of '05, and I was very impressed.

[The Stoic One]

Interesting Theory.

[uchihaXshinoda]

tobi is obito because
its obvious the statue at the VoTE is a UCHiha
the irony behind it (pakkun mentions the irony)
naruto vs sasuke
hokage vs uchiha

and the only uchiha we've heard off, so powerful, who could possibly be strong enough to rival
the first hokage would be....Uchiha madara. it isn't fan-fiction its a plot device

plus when the kyuubi talks of the uchiha clan, he refers to "anchestry"
and seeing eyes as sinister as his own in a certain uchiha madara.
that also screams madara is actually the 1st uchiha

the 1st kage had the power to supress bijuu, sasuke had the eyes to
supress the nine-tails chakra, eyes like the kyuubi has seen b4,
that's some rivally power. the rivalry of the 1st hokage and madara; VotE statues.

obito would be the only other live uchiha out there.
and c'mon one right eye sharingan???

that isn't a style its a disadvantage
and that slash he took from sasuke roughly the same fraction of his
body he had no feeling in it screams obito.
are you stupid?
obito's right eye got crushed
and he died lol obviosly you aint see the manga chapters
right i check this so you can understand alittle bit more

read manga chapter 364
maybe you mind change ur mind

[uchihaXshinoda]

Okay, who's the wise guy who bumped up this ancient post and argue things that havn't been proven yet? :notrust
it was me but it has been proven
it's just people like you who think they know naruto when they don't
most of the people here don't even know who peyne is

[Tyrannos]

Excuse me? Pretty damn rude thing to say, kid. Comments like that automatically deserves a Neg Rep from me. :mad


And for someone like me who "doesn't know Naruto", I know enough that what you said is full of s.... If it's been proven, then prove it. Because last I checked, all we know about Madara is that the Kyuubi knew him and Tobi invoked his name.

[uchihaXshinoda]

Excuse me? Pretty damn rude thing to say, kid. Comments like that automatically deserves a Neg Rep from me. :mad


And for someone like me who "doesn't know Naruto", I know enough that what you said is full of s.... If it's been proven, then prove it. Because last I checked, all we know about Madara is that the Kyuubi knew him and Tobi invoked his name.
okay okay but the thing is
it's in a manga chapter
out in japan and if i can find the original version i'll send it to you but if not i'll send you a crappy colored version on youtube

yes tobi invoked madara's name but who's tp say that he isnt madara

i dnt know howto put a picture up yet but this is what he sed

tobi: soon... soon all our goals will be achieved
and when they are everything will be as it should.
the sharingan's true power, my power uchiha madara's power

(sharingan on tobi's right eye apears)

unamed akatsuki member: the sky cries again...
pain... you...

(chapter ends) lol


but also maybe hu is to tell that obito died maybe he is still alive and is tobi
i don't personally think that tobi is obito
but perhaps he did survive and lost his memories and bcause he gave his left eye to kakashi and the right side of his face is mashed up he has to wear a mask
i don't believe it but it's just a theory

[Tyrannos]

tobi: soon... soon all our goals will be achieved
and when they are everything will be as it should.
the sharingan's true power, my power uchiha madara's power

(sharingan on tobi's right eye apears)


And how can be Tobi be Madara when again, he is invoking Madara's power.

Just look at your own post:

the sharingan's true power, my power uchiha madara's power

He isn't saying: "The Sharingan's true power, my power!" or "The power of the Sharingan that I, Madara Uchiha, has obtained!"


Instead he is saying it more like this: "The Sharingan's True power, the power of Madara Uchiha!"

Or, if you will, the classic He-man approach: "I have the power!" :P

[uchihaXshinoda]

And how can be Tobi be Madara when again, he is invoking Madara's power.

Just look at your own post:



He isn't saying: "The Sharingan's true power, my power!" or "The power of the Sharingan that I, Madara Uchiha, has obtained!"


Instead he is saying it more like this: "The Sharingan's True power, the power of Madara Uchiha!"

Or, if you will, the classic He-man approach: "I have the power!" :P
lol he-man hehe

well he could be refering himself as a third person after he says "my power"

have you seen the tengu theory?
it's a preety awsome theory about how madara and the uchiha clan came to be

[Tyrannos]

Yes I have read the Tengu theory. But it's just that: a fan theory.


As for you citing Tobi's speaking in the third person, unless he spoke in third person since the beginning, it is highly unlikely he would start speaking in third person now.

Besides that, he would've said it like this, "The Power of the Sharingan, that of me, Madara Uchiha!" And all the variations of that translation doesn't even come close to what would appear to be in third person.

[DotHacker666]

i heard this theory before, its most likly Madara.

This was posted on another site and I thought it was interesting so here you go for all who haven't read this.

"Hyuuga clan is one of the oldest clans in Konoha. They have been there ever since the establishment of the hidden village. Many years ago there was a girl from Hyuuga clan who fell in love with an outsider. She decided to marry herself to the young man despite the strong protests from her own clan. But this man was no ordinary human. In fact, this man was not a human at all. His name was Sojobo. He was the King of Tengu.

There are two types of tengus, Karasu tengu (a crow-like creature with beak and wings) and Konoha tengu (also known as Yamabushi tengu). Sojobo was a Konoha tengu. He had long nose and white hair with a pair of black wings on his back. As the King of Tengu, Sojobo possessed some very mystical powers. He carried a fan made of Fatsia leaf that could create a storm (therefore people sometimes call this type of leaf as Tengu no Uchiwa or Tengu’s fan). He could teleport himself or any other things from one place to another. He could also communicate with people telepathically or even invade their minds and drive them to madness. Besides, Sojobo was also known for his shapeshifting ability. He sometimes transformed himself into human to interact with people.

Anyway, this girl from Hyuuga was in love with Sojobo taking the human form without knowing his true identity. She married him shortly after they met each other. A year or two later, she was pregnant and gave birth to their first son. Sojobo named this son Uchiha, Uchiha Madara, after Uchiwa which means fan. And of course as we know, fan also later became the symbol of this new clan.

Everything was good. Uchiha Madara soon grew up to become a very powerful shinobi. He not only inherited the Kekkei Genkai from his mother but with the Tengu blood inside him the Byakugan had evolved into an even more dreadful form—the Sharingan! This new bloodline had 2 levels: Normal Sharingan and Mangekyou Sharingan. Like his tengu father, Madara possessed some incredible magical powers. He was able to use telepathy to invade people’s minds, or even teleport himself across a short distance. When he turned on the Mangekyou Sharingan (he had the normal Sharingan on 24/7 just like his Hyuuga kin), the eyes would further intensify his powers and bring him even closer to a tengu form. He had developed 3 jutsus under this state, namely Tsukiyomi (to control people’s minds and drive them insane), Amaterasu (to teleport objects into another dimension)* and Susanoo (to create a storm like that created by a Tengu’s fan).

Because of his bravery and almost unparalleled powers, Madara soon became a hero in his people’s eyes despite his young age. He became very close friends with Shodaime and together they took up the responsibility to protect the Konoha village they established. Madara founded the first police force in the Konoha and swore to protect his people with his life.

But good things do not last long. As Madara was about to reach his adulthood, Sojobo began to reveal his true intention. Sojobo didn’t marry the girl from Hyuuga out of love. He was only looking for a perfect body, a container (probably to achieve greater powers), and he figured the best way was to create one with his own blood. He was planning on taking over Madara’s body once he reached his adulthood. It didn’t take Uchiha Madara long to find out this appalling truth. He felt a mixture of shock and anger. He felt he was being used but he wasn’t going to give in such easily, at least not without a fight. But Madara knew only too well that no matter how strong he was he stood no chance against the King of Tengu. Out of desperation he sought for the legendary Bijuu—Kyuubi (the God of Fire).

Kyuubi was very impressed by Madara’s abilities. A secret pact was made and Kyuubi agreed to lend his power and chakra to Uchiha Madara. Soon Madara mastered the katon and he could even cast a dark fire that would burn for 7 days and 7 nights after performing the Amaterasu. But even with these newly gained powers and a huge supply of chakra from the Kyuubi, Uchiha Madara was only able to beat his demon father by a hair's breadth. He couldn’t finish him once and for all but only managed to seal him up. However, the seal he used was a very special one. To break the seal it requires the Kyuubi's chakra and also not one but 3 Uchiha members who can wield the Mangekyou Sharingan. Each MS user has to cast a different MS jutsu at the same time and when the 3 jutsus--Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu and Susanoo--combine, the great evil will be unleashed. It's a tall order and Madara thought it would be enough to seal up the demon for eternity. But what Madara didn’t anticipate was that this seal itself would bring a bloody massacre upon his own clan many decades later…

Here I will derail a bit and talk about the relationship between Shodaime and Madara. When Shodai found out about the secret pact between Madara and Kyuubi he was enraged. He thought it was hunger for greater power that led his best friend to the Kyuubi. Madara didn’t explain to him either because he didn’t want anyone to know he was a half-demon. Conflicts began to appear between the two who were once close to each other. The intense hostility eventually resulted in a great battle at the Valley of the End. (You might think that I depicted Madara as too strong a character and therefore feel skeptical about Shodai being able to rival both MS and Kyuubi’s power at the same time. Well you better not forget that Shodai had the ability to suppress Kyuubi’s chakra and his darkness jutsu and suiton might be very good counter-moves to Madara's Sharingan and katon respectively as well.)

....cont'd in next post.

[DotHacker666]

...cont'ing last post.

Alright, now back to the main story. Many years had come into past since Sojobo was sealed. The tengu’s blood in Uchiha clan was now no longer as pure as it once was. It was gradually being “diluted” by constant marriages with non-Uchihas over the generations. Now even the Normal Sharingan was possessed by only the elite few among Uchihas, let alone the Mangekyou Sharingan. But the dark history of the clan was anything but forgotten. A tengu shrine was built underneath the Nakano temple by some of the early Uchihas to keep all the secrets of the clan inside (including killing your loved one to gain MS which was discovered by some later Uchiha). Once an Uchiha member was thought to be reliable enough he would be informed about the secret meeting place and it would then become his life-long obligation to keep these secrets from outsiders. The Uchihas considered this dark history as an unspeakable shame and swore to protect the glory and dignity of their clan with their lives no matter what happened.

20 years ago, a new member was born into an Uchiha family. He soon proved himself to be a prodigy, even by the high standards of the Uchiha. He graduated at the top of his class at age 7, mastered the Sharingan at 8, became a Chunin at 10 and an ANBU squad leader at 13. His name was Uchiha Itachi. As Itachi was selected to become an ANBU his father Fugaku felt that it was the right time to tell him everything. Itachi learned about the Mangekyou Sharingan and the origin of his clan from his father. Deep inside his mind, an evil shadow began to take shape…

One night, when all men of Uchiha were supposed to gather at the secret meeting place two of them were absent. Itachi lured his best friend Uchiha Shisui to the Nakano river and started his horrendous plan. He assaulted and killed Uchiha Shisui on that night and obtained the accursed eye powers—Mangekyou Sharingan from the death of his friend. The next day when people found Uchiha Shisui’s body they also found a suicide note grabbed in his hand. But of course this note wasn’t really written by Shisui. Itachi forged his handwriting with the Sharingan to make it look like a suicide. What was written on the note is important because it reflects Itachi's feeling at that time.

Always living with fear—fear that people may find out the secrets of their clan, fear that people may know Uchihas are actually descendants of demon—they all swore to take the secrets with them to the graveyard. This was the miserable life of every Uchiha member. Itachi was tired of all these. He could see no future for his clan. He didn’t understand why his people felt ashamed of their own past. He didn’t understand why his people didn’t see their superiority to the normal human beings. He didn’t understand why his people decided to seal up such a great power and not to use it. Itachi had lost all his hope for the Uchiha clan because of the pathetic “path” they had chosen.

From the moment Itachi heard about the origin of his clan he felt a weird sense of pleasure and superiority. He felt he was somehow more special than the others. Then his sick and twisted mind had gone even further. He wanted to set the tengu free. He was willing to sacrifice his body in exchange for probably the strongest power the world had ever seen. He was ready to offer his body to the Tengu King.

Soon Itachi had put his thoughts into action. When he learned about the Akatsuki’s plan to capture the Bijuus he decided to join them. He needed their help to get the Kyuubi’s chakra. But that’s not all. Itachi still had to find another 2 MS users. After awhile, he came across a second MS user who agreed to help him carry out his plan. Now all he needed was the third and last MS user.

Itachi knew his clan members would never kill their loved ones to get MS. He despised them. They were a bunch of cowards, useless …oh wait, Itachi suddenly came up with an idea—he could still use them to achieve his purpose. He could use them to make his little brother the third MS user…

On a full-moon night, the ancient blood inside Itachi finally awakened and he had completely lost his mind. He killed his entire clan including his parents. Then he waited for his little brother Sasuke to come home. He wanted him to know he was the one who did it. He used Tsukiyomi on his brother to make sure such a traumatic picture would stay with him for the rest of his life. He wanted Sasuke to hate him. He wanted Sasuke to hate him enough to kill his own friend and activate the Mangekyou Sharingan. He told him about the secret meeting place so that he would find out everything. He wanted Sasuke to take the path he had paved for him—the path of an avenger..."

The original post had alot of pics and page evidence to help explain his theory better. You can find it at http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=106576

[uchihaXshinoda]

And how can be Tobi be Madara when again, he is invoking Madara's power.

Just look at your own post:



He isn't saying: "The Sharingan's true power, my power!" or "The power of the Sharingan that I, Madara Uchiha, has obtained!"


Instead he is saying it more like this: "The Sharingan's True power, the power of Madara Uchiha!"

Or, if you will, the classic He-man approach: "I have the power!" :P
but i guess we'll just get closer and closer to finding out hu the misterie uchiha is when the nest manga chapters are released

you seem to know more than i thought you did
(claps)

but in honesty i still have alot betting that the misterie uchiha is madara
acctualy im preety certain it is him

and as for the third person thing well
maybe the writter wanted us to get confused
coz i sure did when i first read the chapter
and i bet most people did aswell

[uchihaXshinoda]

[QUOTE=uchihaXshinoda;9945553]but i guess we'll just get closer and closer to finding out hu the misterie uchiha is when the nest manga chapters are released

you seem to know more than i thought you did
(claps)

but in honesty i still have alot betting that the misterie uchiha is madara
acctualy im preety certain it is him

and as for the third person thing well
maybe the writter wanted us to get confused
coz i sure did when i first read the chapter
and i bet most people did aswell

[RasenganMaster8]

The other statue facing Shodai IS the the 1st mangekyou user, Uchiha Madara. Sasuke and Itachi's Great Grandfather.

Edit: wooops I didnt see that there were 8 pages to this lol. My Bad

[Tyrannos]

What you said is pure fiction at this point, RasenganMaster. There hasn't been anything that proves what you just said. :P

[Sinister99]

K, you know how Kakashi said that the two warriors that fought there were remarkably similar to Naruto and Sasuke? Keep that in mind as you read my theory here.

One of those carvings was definitely Shodai. The other, to me at least, had hair that greatly resembled Level 2 Sasuke's hair. I think that was meant to be symbolic. Naruto = Shodai, Sasuke = The other one.

So, with Kakashi's comment on how similar they were, does that mean that, perhaps during Konoha's founding, Shodai had a great comrade helping him (Perhaps an Uchiha), that disagreed with Shodai and Nidaime's ways and decided to rebel, and that's where the two had some great battle? Then, that unnamed comrade, assuming Shodai didn't kill him, started his own way of doing things elsewhere. Maybe he was responsible for the beginnings of Akatsuki?

You sir are a genius.

[uchihaXshinoda]

You sir are a genius.
man you guys this is ancient history
most people allready know the madara was a friend of shodaime and nidaime
and he was helping them untill he found out that his father wanted his body and decided to try to kill him with the kyuubi's help

shodaime and nidaime found out about this and decided to try to stop him resulting in shodaime's death and making nidaime the 2nd hokage

but madara even with the kyuubi's help he could not defeat his father so he just simply sealed him (not sure where though)

ohhh uchiha madara's father was a temgu but that is a theory

[YokuUchiha]

I remember reading something. It was a on the internet. It told the 1st and 2nd fighting Madara Uchiha. It was originally going to be the three of them as Hokages but Madara wanted to go a different way with the village. So he decided to leave and the 1st and 2nd went to retreive him. They said they'd take him back even if they had to sacrafice there lives. Then Madara was going to kill the 2nd but the 1st jumped in the way. And to protect his brother he sealed the 2nd in a barrier almost like a room with the trees he summond. Madara and the first fought and and Madara ended up killing the first and then Madara gain the Mongekyo Sharingan and by the time the 2nd was let out Madara was gone and the 1st was dead. So he made the statues to show Madara Uchiha and the 1st and thats where there friendship and the 1st's life ended. And the 2nd didnt die so that y hes not there. I dont think that Madara is the leader of Akasuki either.

[BlastYoBoots]

man you guys this is ancient history
most people allready know the madara was a friend of shodaime and nidaime
and he was helping them untill he found out that his father wanted his body and decided to try to kill him with the kyuubi's help

shodaime and nidaime found out about this and decided to try to stop him resulting in shodaime's death and making nidaime the 2nd hokage

but madara even with the kyuubi's help he could not defeat his father so he just simply sealed him (not sure where though)

ohhh uchiha madara's father was a tengu but that is a theory

Actually, MOST of what you just said was only speculation from the tengu theory. Scratch that- ALL of it. Therefore, nearly 0% of what you just said is something that most people already know. Some people have already theorized it.

[-Kerrigan-]

I've been thinking that it might be Madara's statue.

[gobberpooper]

It's obviously Madara. Who wouldn't think that?

[Mike Hunt]

Wow... none of you read the Tengu theory???

[gaboss213]

it mandara uchiha duhh

[BlastYoBoots]

It's obviously Madara. Who wouldn't think that?

If the Tengu theory is not true (which is somewhat likely, considering it's just a theory) then it definitely could be somebody else. I believe in the Tengu theory myself; I'm just saying "keep an open mind".

[gobberpooper]

No but even if u haven't read that, u'd easily see it. I already knew that before reading the Tengu theory. That one only supported my idea more.

[uchihaXshinoda]

okay can we scrap this just for amoment ?

right out of the people who keep up with the manga!
im still not sure but watthe hell is pein?
is there more akatsuki mamber than the 6 we've bin told about or is it just another 6 clones of pein?
i really don't know but i'll guess i'll find out either today or tomora

[BlastYoBoots]

okay can we scrap this just for amoment ?

right out of the people who keep up with the manga!
im still not sure but watthe hell is pein?
is there more akatsuki mamber than the 6 we've bin told about or is it just another 6 clones of pein?
i really don't know but i'll guess i'll find out either today or tomora

...where the heck did this come from? Did you pick a thread blindly and decide to post random crap from your head?

Please, don't derail this thread more than it already has been.

[uchihaXshinoda]

...where the heck did this come from? Did you pick a thread blindly and decide to post random crap from your head?

Please, don't derail this thread more than it already has been.
well obviously you havent read the latest manga chapter
it shows pein going to this room with 6 other akatsuki wearing people but we dnt know if its clones or other akatsuki members
so shut up mate
and i just wanted to know this from the people who have read and understood this chapter coz i didnt

[Uchiha_Madara09]

man you guys this is ancient history
most people allready know the madara was a friend of shodaime and nidaime
and he was helping them untill he found out that his father wanted his body and decided to try to kill him with the kyuubi's help

shodaime and nidaime found out about this and decided to try to stop him resulting in shodaime's death and making nidaime the 2nd hokage

but madara even with the kyuubi's help he could not defeat his father so he just simply sealed him (not sure where though)

ohhh uchiha madara's father was a temgu but that is a theory

You are taking speculation from the tengu bloodline theory by Yasha(I think)and providing it as evidence....we back up our statements with proof from Kishi around here...

and about what you commented on below.
I think those are the members we have already...the guy on the left is clearly Zetsu..and the guy who syas,"well then its time to hunt the intruder", is Tobi.

I think Pein and using another clone reconnaissance jutsu or at least Konan is...or those pods can transfer there minds into another.
Just my theory...maybe we have to see Pein's true form.

[BlastYoBoots]

and about what you commented on below.
I think those are the members we have already...the guy on the left is clearly Zetsu..and the guy who syas,"well then its time to hunt the intruder", is Tobi.

No, the guy who says "time to hunt the intruder" is Pein. I can't believe it's been a week and I still have to tell people this, but that's PEIN'S EYE, NOT TOBI'S MASK!! It's a face close up!
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r148/BlastYoBoots/Naruto_369_silhouette.jpg
Tobi is not in this chapter. And that guy on the left is also clearly not Zetsu. Zetsu does not have a potbelly. It isn't Kisame, Sasori, or any other Akatsuki we know. In fact, if you look at the picture above, the body Pein wakes up in has a large face with a double chin, meaning he PROBABLY woke up in the fat guy. And, it's someone we don't know.

[Uchiha_Madara09]

No, the guy who says "time to hunt the intruder" is Pein. I can't believe it's been a week and I still have to tell people this, but that's PEIN'S EYE, NOT TOBI'S MASK!! It's a face close up!
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r148/BlastYoBoots/Naruto_369_silhouette.jpg
Tobi is not in this chapter. And that guy on the left is also clearly not Zetsu. Zetsu does not have a potbelly. It isn't Kisame, Sasori, or any other Akatsuki we know. In fact, if you look at the picture above, the body Pein wakes up in has a large face with a double chin, meaning he PROBABLY woke up in the fat guy. And, it's someone we don't know.

I'm sorry but the silhouette kinded confused me, and you said yourself others have made the same mestake...

thanks for the much needed correction....deserves positive rep.

[uchihaXshinoda]

i dnt get it why did he delete our posts?
lol
see i told you madara was tobi
lol

[Blue_eyez_0001]

LOL........KISHI hurry up, they are fighting over your great NARUTO MANGA...hahahaha.
Reveal something that can make them shut up....just kiddin' WOOT WOOT
The only thing that we can do now is to wait for KISHI and enjoy reading his MANGA. HURRY UP KISHI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[uchihaXshinoda]

can some1 give me there opinions here just for a moment

if the third hokage lost to orochimaru and pein could beat orochimaru easily
but yet uchiha madara is stronger than pein

but madara lost to the shodai
wouldn't that mean that shodai is stronger than the third even though it says that the third was the strongest hokage?

lol i dno if this makes any sense what so ever
but if you get what i mean can you fill me in?

[obito's mask]

there iz no story....uve all bin lied 2

dis is all a part of ur imaginacionezzzzzz

[uchihaXshinoda]

lol this kid got banned
but neway forget that some one give me an opinion please

[curiousoggy]

Wow he deleted my post for saying that there is no need for this thread anymore.

[uchihaXshinoda]

have you guys seen the new manga chapter?
akatsuki leader and konan were acctualy jiraiya's students at some point

i think konan was the girl on the same team as minato namizake (fourth hokage)
i know now there's not other 6 akatsuki there just different bodies for pein

i thnk in the next chapter its either gona be jiraiya fighting konan and pein
or naruto and the others fight sasuke team

i think jiraiya is gona die sometime soon by konan and pein :(:cry
i wonder how the battle is gona go down?

this is well good

[BlastYoBoots]

have you guys seen the new manga chapter?
akatsuki leader and konan were acctualy jiraiya's students at some point

Implied, and likely, but not proven.

[uchihaXshinoda]

Implied, and likely, but not proven.
yer it was just proven

[Griff Hyral]

His students but not his squad! Yes.

[♠Ace♠]

jiraiya said that shodaime beat madara at the vallley of the end and that statue looks like madara so i say it is madara

[Blinus]

... I posted this 2 and a half years ago.

[Dragonus Nesha]

What's wrong with a little necromancy?

[Blinus]

Meh, I don't mind. I impressed myself.

[breakbeat oratory]

Meh, I don't mind. I impressed myself.

And rightfully so.

Good call.

[alexs2602]

well another weird thought.. what if this is where the sharingan truly evolved out from byakugan!! and this is where the pure form of sharingan came to be.. the mengokyou

[Karasuke]

Proven now that Valley of the end was between Shodaime and Uchiha Madara.

The upcoming final matchup would be different, this time Sasuke and Naruto hand-in-hand against Uchiha Madara.

I liked how Shodaime took out Madara, just reminds us that the Sharingan and its associated users aren't the strongest and invincible.

[Kageromaru97]

The second statue is Uchiha Madara... -_-

[Dragonus Nesha]

The second statue is Uchiha Madara... -_-O.o The image of an almighty Uchiha carved into stone? Impossible. Inherently obvious signs do not act as a proof that an Uchiha could ever have a sculpture done in such a way as not to capture his true embodiment of power and skill. I refuse to listen. *plugs ears* LALALALALALALALALALALALALA

[sasuk321]

guys this thread is from 2005...O.O
this guy basically had the whole story correct.. hes a fortune teller

[alexs2602]

Interesting thought...
Maybe the two of them both wanted to found a new village, start of fresh, but for different reasons: One for the power and one for the people.

[Notorious_99]

Sairaa Desu is some sort of genjutsu user he's making us think that this thread was made 2 and a half years ago when he really made it last week.

[Aria Mournesong]

... I posted this 2 and a half years ago.

That was a pretty good guess for such a long time ago Sairaa!

*Applause*

[Numberonenarutofan]

Here it is.Ok the statue that sasuke stands on is uchiha madara!the statue that naruto stands on is the ist hokage.they ended up fighting for who would become the kage.the 1st got killed while fighting.the second killed uchiha madara.The 1st and 2nd both tho trained the 3rd before fighting madara.
but then tobi came along and eveybody asumes hes obito.but hes not.
hes madara uchiha.the true weilder of the sharingan!

[BlastYoBoots]

Here it is.Ok the statue that sasuke stands on is uchiha madara!the statue that naruto stands on is the ist hokage.they ended up fighting for who would become the kage.the 1st got killed while fighting.the second killed uchiha madara.The 1st and 2nd both tho trained the 3rd before fighting madara.
but then tobi came along and eveybody asumes hes obito.but hes not.
hes madara uchiha.the true weilder of the sharingan!

Please finish reading the manga before posting. We already know that statue is of Madara, look at chapter 370.

Also, the battle at the valley of the end was at around the founding of Konoha, and the databook says that the First died of sickness. So, no.

In addition, please use evidence. A theory without evidence is a fanfiction.

Finally, stay on topic.

[Numberonenarutofan]

Please finish reading the manga before posting. We already know that statue is of Madara, look at chapter 370.

Also, the battle at the valley of the end was at around the founding of Konoha, and the databook says that the First died of sickness. So, no.

In addition, please use evidence. A theory without evidence is a fanfiction.

Finally, stay on topic.

i have been reading the mangas.that maybe what you think.I think and know that madara uchiha killed th 1st.go ahead and say what you want.

[Brigade]

Please finish reading the manga before posting. We already know that statue is of Madara, look at chapter 370.

Also, the battle at the valley of the end was at around the founding of Konoha, and the databook says that the First died of sickness. So, no.

In addition, please use evidence. A theory without evidence is a fanfiction.

Finally, stay on topic.

Quoted for truth

[galarond]

Yes, he would be ancient.

Saruman was 8 years old when Konoha was made, since the mystery guy in the statue looks adult, let's assume he was 18 years old 60 years ago, that would mean the mystery man would be 78 years old aproximatelly, older than Saruman and nowhere near his prime.

Possible, but not probable since Oro's immortality jutsu is all about changing bodies, and then he would lose his Sharingan eyes and even if he transplanted it ala Kakashi, a transplanted Sharingan in a body that doesn't have Uchiha blood seems to be much weaker that if it was in a body with Uchiha blood.

what if he used another uchiha's body to do it tho? then he wouldnt have to worry about losing his powers while keeping young and then if he kept the appearance of the younger uchiha he could even invade konoha without their knowledge

[HidanShippuuden]

Where does it say when the 1st dies, just curious ?

[hello25]

The unkown statue is Madara Uchiha and the other one is Shodai. They had a great battle there and Shodai won but we dont kno what happened to Madara he is suspected to have summoned the Kyuubi to attack Konoha and is also suspected of being the leader of the Akatsuki. Madara probly wanted Konoha to be different rather than follow Shodais philosophies.

[Ironhide]

wow this thoery is scary

[AkiraDono]

the pics will tell you everything...

chapter 218:
http://m4.narutocentral.com/manga/218/naruto_ch218_p02.png

chapter 370 :
http://m4.narutocentral.com/manga/370/Naruto_370_16.png

http://m4.narutocentral.com/manga/370/Naruto_370_17.png

if you still didn't get it... the statue with naruto is shodai while the one with sasuke is Uchiha Madara... the founder of the uchiha clan

[Lezard Valeth]

This is no longer a theory, this is a spoiler. :awesome
Should be moved to Telegrams lol

[Shiron]

This is no longer a theory, this is a spoiler. :awesome
Should be moved to Telegrams lol
Huh? We've known this to be the case since like chapter 370, as the post above you shows. If anything, this should be locked or recycled or something, because of it obviously being the case, but no real reason to move it to Telegrams.

[Lezard Valeth]

Then, that unnamed comrade, assuming Shodai didn't kill him, started his own way of doing things elsewhere. Maybe he was responsible for the beginnings of Akatsuki?Clearly telegram material :amuse

[Shiron]

Unless people get stupid about it (in which case they'll be banned for a day and have their posts deleted anyway), their's no reason to move it into Telegrams...

[Yakushi Kabuto]

Recycling for reasons Shiron mentioned.