Krillen, Yamcha, Tien, and Piccolo vs. Karate Kid [Archive]

Vynjira

01-15-2007, 01:32 PM

Team DBZ FTW.Spoken out of sheer ignorance, PC KK could restrain Kryptonians and was able to hold his own against pre-Crisis Superboy. You know, the Superboy that casually towed planets around? Val would teach them all a lesson in Martial Arts. In addition Val has an ability to sense the weakest points in any target. He could in theory choose K.O. all of them with one hit each. This is presuming his goal is to K.O.

SoulTaker540

01-15-2007, 02:02 PM

PC KK could break diamond with his karate chop,and even had Superboy off balance with his speed and reflexes.He has enough stregnth to break out of interon which is on par with secondary adamantium,stuff that DBZ characters would have a hard time doing if PC Kryptonians had difficulty break interon thicker than a couple of inches.He kicks through fucking meteorites,and his stomps can cancel out earthquakes that would lay waste to Manhattan island.He has stalemated Superboy and even put him down once.These guys really stand a chance.

Orion

01-15-2007, 02:19 PM

karate kid stomps the dbz guys.

kenpachibankai

01-15-2007, 02:38 PM

If he's that good why not pit him up against one of the ubered out humans from Nippon Ichi?

01-15-2007, 02:50 PM

Why is the poll so close (5-5)? Shouldent KK win in a massacre?

Vynjira

01-15-2007, 04:17 PM

If he's that goodHe is, the problem is none of the people voting for DBZ know who he is, and I bet you at least half of them think this is Daniel La'Russo from "The Karate Kid" Movies.

Val Armorr has mastered every Martial Art up to the 30th Century. His skill in hand-to-hand combat is seemingly superhuman, allowing him to simulate super-strength blowsWhy is the poll so close (5-5)? Shouldent KK win in a massacre?Because people are dumb.

superbatman86

01-15-2007, 05:07 PM

Actually DBZ beat the walking plot device known as Karate Kid because they all have area attacks that he can't counter.

Comic Book Guy

01-15-2007, 06:52 PM

Pre-Crisis Karate Kid is pretty much the human equivalent to Pre-Crisis Superman. He was freaking ridiculous, as far as what humans can do.

Kuya

01-15-2007, 06:59 PM

Well yea i know he held his own against superboy prime, but they were hand to hand a lot. And it's deadly to go against Karate Kid hand to hand. Like superboy, team DBZ flies, are quick, and have super strength. The one character of the team who likes fighting hand to hand a lot is Yamcha, and yes he'd get owned, but the other guys have strong long range attacks. Tien's got that one move where he looks through his hands to attack u.

Also, quick question, how fast is Karate Kid?

Orion

01-15-2007, 07:01 PM

fast enough to fight superboy.....who can go ftl lol.

Comic Book Guy

01-15-2007, 07:22 PM

Well yea i know he held his own against superboy prime, but they were hand to hand a lot.

Actually, that was Pre-Crisis Superboy. The one that grew up to be the godly Pre-Crisis Superman.

And it's deadly to go against Karate Kid hand to hand. Like superboy, team DBZ flies, are quick, and have super strength. The one character of the team who likes fighting hand to hand a lot is Yamcha, and yes he'd get owned, but the other guys have strong long range attacks. Tien's got that one move where he looks through his hands to attack u.

Also, quick question, how fast is Karate Kid?

Fast enough to tag the speedsters of his era, who Pre-Crisis Superboy couldn't even tag.

lucky

01-15-2007, 08:23 PM

i give it to the DBZ folks.

If they all shoot a massive ki-blast in a huge AOE then why wouldn't they be able to win?

He won't be able to dodge it...

Or they could just fly into the atmosphere and destroy the earth!!!!!1

i mean sure they all die but at least they die on DBz's terms!

Vynjira

01-15-2007, 10:05 PM

Because not a damn one of them favor energy attacks over hand-to-hand, Yamcha is not the only one they all fight hand-to-hand. As for the Superboy Prime comment like CBG said its PC Superboy NOT Prime, if it was prime he went toe-to-toe with someone who could smash realities in which case Val hasn't got a chance of loosing to anyone.... let alone anyone from DBverse, as for AoE's I don't know where you got KK is defenseless against AoE attacks.The one character of the team who likes fighting hand to hand a lot is Yamcha, and yes he'd get owned, but the other guys have strong long range attacks. Tien's got that one move where he looks through his hands to attack u.They all use energy attacks, but they all open with hand-to-hand unless their trying to sneak up and lay into their opponent with everything they have. Very few people have opened with energy attacks. Best chance they have is Tien's Solar Flare. Which Krillin can use. However I don't see them doing much before they get their asses handed to them.

Endless Mike

01-15-2007, 11:26 PM

Val is highly experienced in dodging/deflecting laser/energy/beam attacks. Not to mention he's so fast he could likely speedblitz them all before they could even do anything.

He's one of the most broken Pre - Crisis characters just like PC Supes.

Sharingan No Yondaime

01-16-2007, 12:59 AM

piccolo can create object like telepathicaly and stuff

anything karate kid is weak to or anything or can hurt him?

Endless Mike

01-16-2007, 01:01 AM

piccolo can create object like telepathicaly and stuff

anything karate kid is weak to or anything or can hurt him?

Yes.

Except he's skilled enough not to get hurt.

blacklusterseph004

01-17-2007, 04:00 AM

No one has really explained why aoe attacks won't work, so I'll back the dbz team.

Vynjira

01-17-2007, 09:56 AM

No one has really explained why aoe attacks won't work, so I'll back the dbz team.You mean you didn't like the response to why it wouldn't work?

Val is highly experienced in dodging/deflecting laser/energy/beam attacks. Not to mention he's so fast he could likely speedblitz them all before they could even do anything.

lucky

01-19-2007, 01:11 AM

You mean you didn't like the response to why it wouldn't work?

not necessarily. It wasn't really clear.

Firstly I'll be honest and say that i haven't read pre-crisis KarateKid. (I'm assuming here that KK isn't as fast as the flash or durable enough to withstand a sidewinder missile.)

Now how could he possibly dodge Ki blasts explosions with a radius of several MILES from SEVERAL people 30,000 ft in the air?

Vynjira

01-19-2007, 01:13 AM

not necessarily. It wasn't really clear.

Firstly I'll be honest and say that i haven't read pre-crisis KarateKid. (I'm assuming here that KK isn't as fast as the flash or durable enough to withstand a sidewinder missile.)

Now how could he possibly dodge Ki blasts explosions with a radius of several MILES from SEVERAL people 30,000 ft in the air?Before I get into details let me ask you one question, do you think that this match up is somehow bloodlusted?

kenpachibankai

01-19-2007, 01:15 AM

Vynjira

01-19-2007, 01:19 AM

I don't see how this thread is still around like this. I admit I don't know this guy, but in another thread it was decided that this guy could beat Goku. After hearing that I don't see guys who are like flies to Goku winning this one...Well I'll be the first to admit if they all toss a Planet buster in his General Vicinity there isn't a chance in hell he's gonna survive, but then again neither are any of the said Z Senshi.

Endless Mike

01-19-2007, 01:29 AM

In reaction time and over short distances in combat speed he's as fast or faster than a Flash, and much more durable than a normal human.

Weedy

01-19-2007, 02:12 AM

can anyone post scans of KK feats?

has he ever lost or been hurt and if so by who or what.

Kamen Rider Godzilla

01-19-2007, 02:18 AM

Karate Kid beat PreCrisis Superboy, and Pre Crisis Superboy could destroy the DBZ Team by sneezing. KK FTW.

Endless Mike

01-19-2007, 02:19 AM

Yeah, he's definitely had trouble mainly against super durable creatures like Validus who are completely unphased by his attacks, so he has to retreat.

Also his arch - enemy, Nemesis Kid, had the power to instantly develop any power he needed to defeat a given foe, thought his power didn't work against two opponents or more at once so he was only beaten by teamwork.

Vynjira

01-19-2007, 02:34 AM

Comic Book Guy

01-19-2007, 03:44 AM

'Tis the power of the Silver Age of comic books. . . exaggeration abound.

Thanatos

01-19-2007, 04:43 AM

Also his arch - enemy, Nemesis Kid, had the power to instantly develop any power he needed to defeat a given foe...

That sounds like cheese incarnate. :amazed

:amuse Nemesis kid... could they hint any stronger?

I am... RIVAL BOY!!! :yell

Timur Lane

01-19-2007, 07:23 AM

Also his arch - enemy, Nemesis Kid, had the power to instantly develop any power he needed to defeat a given foe, thought his power didn't work against two opponents or more at once so he was only beaten by teamwork.

Pre-crisis DC characters were to fucking powerful and Nemesis Kid just prove it(has he shown up post-crisis?)

Jin22

01-19-2007, 11:31 AM

Kamen Rider Godzilla

01-19-2007, 12:51 PM

What I know of Karate Kid isn't enough to conclude on a decision concerning this. Knowing how much punishment KK can take for instance would help alot. Whenever you see the guy he's always jumping around dodging fatality like attacks. Has he ever been caught? In any case, Piccolo alone is a planet buster among the mentioned Z fighters. Not to mention that everyone down to even Yamcha have enough power packing to destroy mountains or even city's. And, they're not exactly slow.

Has Karate Kid been in a similar situation than this and came out alive?

Um, he took on Pre Crisis Superboy. You know, the one who could casually move solar systems. The one who was many times ftl. Lol it's only been mentioned every other post. Pre Crisis Superboy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Team DBZ.

superbatman86

01-19-2007, 03:54 PM

Wow people are greatly exagerationg KK prowess.He never took on PC Superboy,Superboy put ON padding so KK wouldn't break his hands on him.He's never out ran anyone with signifcant speed.He's has quik reaction but he can't cover distance super fast

Comic Book Guy

01-19-2007, 04:10 PM

Actually, Karate Kid was induced in the Legion of Super-Heroes when he fougth Superboy as a demonstration of his skills.

PC Superboy did knock him out, if I remember right, but with considerable difficulty.

And he took on Superboy again. But I can't remember whether he was mind-controlled or driven to destruction due to that disease that causes immense pain.

As for speed, yes, Val doesn't possess super-speed, but his reactions are ridiculously fast enough to tag speedsters that even PC Superboy had difficulty with.

Adjective-Noun

01-19-2007, 04:44 PM

DBZ wins because any sort of proof you may provide otherwise is a logical fallacy. Any sort of proof I provide for it shall be a logical fallacy as well now that I think about it.

Why does DBZ win then? I don't like the Karate kid, that's why, and my opinion is the only sound thing I am able to present.

Also I like Krillin, the poor guy.

Jin22

01-19-2007, 05:53 PM

Um, he took on Pre Crisis Superboy. You know, the one who could casually move solar systems. The one who was many times ftl. Lol it's only been mentioned every other post. Pre Crisis Superboy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Team DBZ.Yes well, forgive me if I'm not one to go by others' words. Even if I did know about their fight I didn't actually read or see the novel. I won't just up and agree with something when I hardly know anything about one of the combatants. In any case, I've not seen that issue with KK's spar with Suberboy, and from what people are saying they've fought more than once.

Concerning Superboy though, he was overpowered and I just find it hard to imagine him having that difficult a time with Karate Kid unless he was holding back.

Darklyre

01-19-2007, 06:22 PM

He was holding back at first, but then started to fight for real. Karate Kid easily neutralized him the entire time.

Vynjira

01-19-2007, 06:27 PM

@Adjective-Noun
DBZ wins because any sort of proof you may provide otherwise is a logical fallacy.This is when someone accuses someone else of making a logical fallacy, when they have not actually made one. It is an attempt to dismiss an argument by saying it is fallacious without explaining how or why.
Why does DBZ win then? I don't like the Karate kid, that's why, and my opinion is the only sound thing I am able to present.This is when someone states that they personally believe something to be true, without providing any actual evidence.Also I like Krillin, the poor guy.
This type of argument takes many forms, but the general idea is that it works on a person's feelings to try to make them see one choice as preferable over another.

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ttokalli/kaatis/fail.jpg

This in mind, why'd you bother posting?

Jin22

01-19-2007, 06:34 PM

Did he or anybody else say something among the lines, "now I'm/he's serious"?

Batman has sparred with Wonder Woman on numerous of occasions and we all know she held back with him. What's to say Superboy didn't hold back with Karate Kid as well?

Vynjira

01-19-2007, 06:47 PM

Batman has sparred with Wonder Woman on numerous of occasions and we all know she held back with him. What's to say Superboy didn't hold back with Karate Kid as well?Well there are other feats such as Restraining a Mind Controlled Kryptonian and many other feats he has under his belt that strain the notion he isn't to be taken lightly.

Jin22

01-19-2007, 06:53 PM

I'd like to see the conditions of how he did that. I know, Karate Kid ain't nobody to be messing around with, but the Z fighters ain't people to be taken lightly either.

Vynjira

01-19-2007, 06:57 PM

I'd like to see the conditions of how he did that. I know, Karate Kid ain't nobody to be messing around with, but the Z fighters ain't people to be taken lightly either.Unfortunately I don't possess any of those issues to scan and in too lousy of a mood to search for em, but I'm sure someone else can find em.

Adjective-Noun

01-19-2007, 07:01 PM

@Adjective-Noun
This is when someone accuses someone else of making a logical fallacy, when they have not actually made one. It is an attempt to dismiss an argument by saying it is fallacious without explaining how or why.
This is when someone states that they personally believe something to be true, without providing any actual evidence.
This type of argument takes many forms, but the general idea is that it works on a person's feelings to try to make them see one choice as preferable over another.

Aw....but you cut out the part where I said it was only an opinion, not a fact. I even stated my opinions were fallacies.

Any sort of proof I provide for it shall be a logical fallacy as well now that I think about it.

Besides, all of these X vs Y arguments are fallacies because not one of them can be tested and proven to be fact (unless you are talking about real people, then in theory you could pit them against each other). Actually, when you think about it, very few arguments are not fallacies in one way or another. So why bother even arguing?

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ttokalli/kaatis/fail.jpg

That's why I get a kick out of the Battle dome. Everyone acts like its serious buisness.

This in mind, why'd you bother posting?
Because I'm entitled to have some fun at DC comic book characters expense. I hate those guys. Except Batman. Batman's awesome.

Jin22

01-19-2007, 07:05 PM

Unfortunately I don't possess any of those issues to scan and in too lousy of a mood to search for em, but I'm sure someone else can find em.Don't even sweat it.

Hikaru

01-19-2007, 07:19 PM

KK respect threat (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=69734)

Hamaru

01-19-2007, 07:27 PM

Is it just me or is DBZ starting to get underestimated allot?

Comic Book Guy

01-19-2007, 07:28 PM

Not to mention, taking on Daxamites.

Gunners

01-19-2007, 07:46 PM

How fast is Karate kid, and whats his indurance like?

Sharingan No Yondaime

01-19-2007, 07:50 PM

this fights up in the air, im kinda leaning towards the yamcha tien piccolo kurririn team..

but there is NO WAY KK can beat goku, if so u would have to put him in like beginning of dbz goku, end of dbz its impossible

Thanatos

01-19-2007, 08:11 PM

but there is NO WAY KK can beat goku, if so u would have to put him in like beginning of dbz goku, end of dbz its impossible

In the tournament, he managed to beat Majin Vegeta... :amazed

@Hamaru: DBZ aren't actually being underestimated, it's just that Pre-crisis characters abilities border on the absurd (and then some).

If they were bloodlusted however, they could always destroy the planet (at the cost of their own lives).

Comic Book Guy

01-19-2007, 08:14 PM

How fast is Karate kid,

His reaction time is fast enough to tag Pre-Crisis speedsters with Pre-Crisis Superboy couldn't even do.

and whats his indurance like?

Absolutely ridiculous. For example, during a time when the Legion were infected with a disease that caused pain which drove them all to insanity, Val was the one who withstood it the longest, despite being human.

this fights up in the air, im kinda leaning towards the yamcha tien piccolo kurririn team..

but there is NO WAY KK can beat goku, if so u would have to put him in like beginning of dbz goku, end of dbz its impossible

If it were Pre-Crisis Karate Kid, he probably would, actually.

Of course, them being in the air would be a disadvantage for KK. But even then, KK actually overcame that, ridiculously, in some stories.

Endless Mike

01-19-2007, 08:25 PM

Post - Crisis KK is still pretty tough, but Pre - Crisis Val was just insane.

Gunners

01-19-2007, 08:25 PM

His reaction time is fast enough to tag Pre-Crisis speedsters with Pre-Crisis Superboy couldn't even do.

Might sound a little stupid so I am going to laugh out loud first. Can he dodge bullets and things like that?

Absolutely ridiculous. For example, during a time when the Legion were infected with a disease that caused pain which drove them all to insanity, Val was the one who withstood it the longest, despite being human.

If he was to be in an explosion where extrernal damage would take place, what is his indurance like for that. Like is he a character who can take blows from heavy hitters or does he have to evade their blows overwise they would be fatal.

Darklyre

01-19-2007, 08:47 PM

If he can't evade it (which would be rare indeed) he'd just deflect/redirect/return it.

Jin22

01-19-2007, 08:55 PM

KK respect threat (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=69734)That helped, thanks.

From what I observed Val could probably get the Z fighters if this was a physical fight only, his techniques are monsterous. Seeing it that it's not, he's at the disadvantage as soon as Piccolo and the others take to the sky and start blasting.

Also, from what I've seen he's not very durable. I don't think Superboy or even any Daxamites connected one blow with him. And it wasn't his speed alone that allowed that to happen. Though he is quick, I'd say that it was more his ability to pre-read his opponents attacks to stay one step ahead of them if anything else.

I think Piccolo and the rest of the Z-fighters win if they can stay at a good distance. I don't think even Val could dodge powerful blasts coming from several different directions.

Comic Book Guy

01-19-2007, 08:59 PM

Might sound a little stupid so I am going to laugh out loud first. Can he dodge bullets and things like that?

I don't think they used bullets in the 30th Century during the Silver Age of comicdom. I don't ever recall bullets. Then again, I was never a Legion fan either.

If he was to be in an explosion where extrernal damage would take place, what is his indurance like for that. Like is he a character who can take blows from heavy hitters or does he have to evade their blows overwise they would be fatal.

He's a normal human. His gimmick was that he was so skilled in "Super Karate" (his original martial art at the time of debut, instead of being the master of every martial art in the 30th Century), that he was pretty much a super meta-human.

For example, due to his skill in Super Karate, he stopped an earthquake by creating one of his own to counter it. . . by stomping on the ground.

~Shin~

01-19-2007, 09:00 PM

U know, i never heard of karate kid from comics. The only karate kid i know is the from the movie. And he couldn't beat goku for shit

Endless Mike

01-19-2007, 09:01 PM

Might sound a little stupid so I am going to laugh out loud first. Can he dodge bullets and things like that?

He can dodge lightning and lasers and things like that.

If he was to be in an explosion where extrernal damage would take place, what is his indurance like for that. Like is he a character who can take blows from heavy hitters or does he have to evade their blows overwise they would be fatal.

His usual gimmick is basically not getting hit.

However when he does he can take punches from super strength characters and get right back up. For example: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-10.jpg

Endless Mike

01-19-2007, 09:02 PM

U know, i never heard of karate kid from comics. The only karate kid i know is the from the movie. And he couldn't beat goku for shit

The people who made that movie actually had to ask DC for permission to use the name.

Jin22

01-19-2007, 09:27 PM

Blowing up the entire area and vicinity Val is in. That's all it would take for the Z fighters to win.

I don't understand what KK would do as soon as they take to the sky's.

Darklyre

01-19-2007, 09:31 PM

He's got a Flight Ring as standard equipment, doesn't he? One that lets him breathe in space too, I believe.

Comic Book Guy

01-19-2007, 09:40 PM

He's got a Flight Ring as standard equipment, doesn't he? One that lets him breathe in space too, I believe.

Yes, every Legionnaire is given a ring to denote their membership status. In addition, the ring grants flight and allow one to travel and function in space (last I read).

omg laser pew pew!

01-19-2007, 09:49 PM

Jin22

01-19-2007, 10:03 PM

From a feat given, Val was thrown from a window of a high building and he was worried about being splattered on the side walk. The z-fighters have gone through mountains and yet he's worried about falling on the side walk. That tells me his durabilty ain't something to brag about. Anyways, when has he ever used that ring in a fight?

Comic Book Guy

01-19-2007, 10:25 PM

While I'll say KK wins because he's one of the most retarded DC characters ever (he wears a frigging orange skirt), I'm quite annoyed at alot of idiots here who haven't even read his feats and only go by what CBG or EM has said in the past

He never fought evenly with Superboy, SB was holding back the whole time

That was during the induction, and when Val sparred with him.

Not sure during the mind control though.

From a feat given, Val was thrown from a window of a high building and he was worried about being splattered on the side walk. The z-fighters have gone through mountains and yet he's worried about falling on the side walk. That tells me his durabilty ain't something to brag about. Anyways, when has he ever used that ring in a fight?

Well, his durability is equivalent to that of a regular human, since he is one.

Jin22

01-19-2007, 10:27 PM

Well, his durability is equivalent to that of a regular human, since he is one.Are we getting witty?

Comic Book Guy

01-19-2007, 10:33 PM

He is a human though.

Endless Mike

01-19-2007, 10:36 PM

He actually did hold his own against a serious Superboy in a later fight.

Jin22

01-19-2007, 10:46 PM

He is a human though.Yeah, I know. *rolls eyes*

He actually did hold his own against a serious Superboy in a later fight.How?! His durabilty is craptastic and Superboy should have ended it with one blow.

Endless Mike

01-19-2007, 10:48 PM

Due to Val's superior reflexes, agility, and superhuman skill.

Jin22

01-19-2007, 10:50 PM

I'm still betting that those super reflexes of his ain't helping against numerous city destroying ki blasts coming from several angles.

Endless Mike

01-19-2007, 11:04 PM

I'm still betting that those super reflexes of his ain't helping against numerous city destroying ki blasts coming from several angles.

You'd be surprised, considering he's taken on much tougher odds and came out on top.

Not to mention that since when do DBZ characters fly up in the sky and bombard their opponent from out of range as their very first tactic?

They always try to go HtH first.

Besides, as was mentioned, Val has the flight ring.

Vynjira

01-19-2007, 11:33 PM

I think Piccolo and the rest of the Z-fighters win if they can stay at a good distance. I don't think even Val could dodge powerful blasts coming from several different directions.Right cause the Z Senshi totally do that when fighting one person...

Sharingan No Yondaime

01-20-2007, 12:17 AM

Well, his durability is equivalent to that of a regular human, since he is one.

one ki blast and he's done for.

DBZ beats comics in this battle. Let it go.

Endless Mike

01-20-2007, 12:33 AM

one ki blast and he's done for.

DBZ beats comics in this battle. Let it go.

Except no. He can dodge lightning and speedforce users, he can definitely dodge a slow DBZ ki blast.

Not to mention he's taken extremely powerful attacks before and kept on fighting. He has superhuman durability.

Sharingan No Yondaime

01-20-2007, 12:38 AM

Except no. He can dodge lightning and speedforce users, he can definitely dodge a slow DBZ ki blast.

Not to mention he's taken extremely powerful attacks before and kept on fighting. He has superhuman durability.

Are you making that up... :notrust

Nonetheles hes still human easily and one ki blast from a Z warrior would destroy him immediately.

he cant dodge forever, he will get hit and once he does its over...

comic character loses this battle

Jin22

01-20-2007, 12:39 AM

You'd be surprised, considering he's taken on much tougher odds and came out on top.

Not to mention that since when do DBZ characters fly up in the sky and bombard their opponent from out of range as their very first tactic?

They always try to go HtH first.

Besides, as was mentioned, Val has the flight ring.Taken on tougher opponents with differing fighting tactics perhaps. I doubt Val fought against opponents with city destroying techniques and came out on top.

I've already thrown out the point that KK, with his arsenal of fighting techniques would get any dbz character in a hand to hand bout. Fighting long distance would prove difficult for him though. Even with this ring that gives him flight, I bet the best he could do is run/fly for cover.

Endless Mike

01-20-2007, 12:45 AM

He's fought enemies like Validus who have planet and solar - system destroying capability and still didn't die. He routinely takes hits from super powerful enemies and weapons.

Jin22

01-20-2007, 12:48 AM

Just as soon as Validus pulls his solar - system destroying attack, KK would die.

omg laser pew pew!

01-20-2007, 01:03 AM

He's fought enemies like Validus who have planet and solar - system destroying capability and still didn't die. He routinely takes hits from super powerful enemies and weapons.

So because he fights someone that can do such level attacks, it means that all their attacks must be at that level right?

Batman must have superhuman level durability, I mean he's fought Superman so many times

Shadow Replication 1480

01-20-2007, 01:14 AM

Vynjira

01-20-2007, 01:53 AM

Jin22

01-20-2007, 10:51 AM

How this thread reached 80+ posts given the tendencies of the DBZ crew to go for hand-to-hand first which would lead to each of them getting utterly destroyed by Val astounds me.

Arguing about whether or not he can survive swarms of ki blasts is irrelevent when the OP never stated the DBZ crew were bloodlusted(which is about the ONLY time they'd do something like that to begin with) and people acting like they are and arguing from that point is damn stupid.That was uncalled for, really. And no, I've kept an open mind about the capabilities of both parties. Yes, DBZ characters, even Goku at full strength couldn't beat Val in a physical spar, he is that good. But they do have the advantage in a long range battle. On occasion they have up and started a battle with a ki blast and all it would take for them to find out if it would prove effective against him would be for Val to dodge a shot. After that they'd keep at it until someone actually hits him. We are talking about fighters who are use to monsters taking powerful blasts and shrugging them off unharmed. KK isn't that durable and I've never seen him actually take a mountain destroying blast or stronger and lived. To be honest, I have yet to see what he can do against any kind of powerful blast. He always manages to dodge the smaller ones.

Yet, I'll say it again, Karate Kid's durability doesn't seem that impressive from some scans that I've seen.

Shadow Replication 1480

01-20-2007, 03:48 PM

DBZ fighters tend to resort to long range battles after they've meleed a bit, so like I said before, unless they are blood-lusted, they aren't starting off with swarms of ki blasts as it's completely out-of-character for them to do that against what they would perceive to be an ordinary human with average human ki. Tien's about the only one I can recall at the moment starting out a fight spamming ki blasts and that was because he knew Cell would have killed him if he even dared to try and fight him hand-to-hand.

While I agree Val's durability isn't all that, it's not going to factor in this fight because the guys lined up against him would hardly go straight to long range ki-spammage mode unless they had prior knowledge or were blood-lusted.

Gunners

01-20-2007, 04:05 PM

^^^^^ When Kurrin murdered all the saibamen didn't he start of with a Ki blast?

If they realised hand to hand combat wasn't working they would fire ki blasts at him they would realise he has more difficulty with ki blasts and keep it up.

Piccolo Tien Kurrin and even Yamcha are skilled fighters and warriors in their own respect. At a point they would realise their ki blasts are more effective than hand to hand combat, the point of realisation wouldn't be long in the fight.

Shadow Replication 1480

01-20-2007, 04:25 PM

Gunners

01-20-2007, 05:38 PM

Maybe so, I don't remember that fight all that well.

Your second point brings me to something else: I don't think they'd use ki blasts even if they realized they couldn't beat KK in hand-to-hand since he's just a regular human whom can't use them like the DBZ crew. Now, that's all just ramapant speculation before anyone gets their panties out of sorts, so disregard if you feel like it.

Personally, I don't see this fight going any further than when they all try to fight Val straight up, though I'd say Piccolo would pose a more of a threat than the three humans since they're all at the height of their powers.

Um they would use Ki blasts, they wish to defeat him. The only reason they wouldn't use ki blasts is if they beat him in hand to hand combat. If they realised they faired better with ki blasts they would take that aproach instead.

Personally I see Karate kid loosing this match up. His durability is that of a normal human though he can probably use martial arts to divert the force of blows I don't see him diverting ki blasts eplosions, he might dodge the blasts but the explosions I am not so sure off unless he has Flash like speed where he can travel long distances in short spaces of time.

Vynjira

01-20-2007, 06:50 PM

^^^^^ When Kurrin murdered all the saibamen didn't he start of with a Ki blast?Care to mention that happened after Yamcha got fucked? and that he was pissed and was in a life threatening fight?

Gunners

01-20-2007, 07:16 PM

Care to mention that happened after Yamcha got fucked? and that he was pissed and was in a life threatening fight?

Umm most people new the circumstance it happened in. If they are fighting Karate kid they kinda want to kill him. And if he killed on person they would then do what kurrin did. Once they realise how it is more affective they would continue doing it.

Vynjira

01-20-2007, 07:49 PM

If they are fighting Karate kid they kinda want to kill him.Are you on CRACK??? Why?? Their "GOOD GUYS" that are morally opposed to senseless killing.. No, they won't wanna kill Karate Kid..And if he killed on person they would then do what kurrin did.WHAT!?!? Why is he killing any of them??? NONE of these guys are bloodlusted...Once they realise how it is more affective they would continue doing it. They won't realize its more effective unless they do it off the bat which they won't

~Shin~

01-20-2007, 07:51 PM

Are you on CRACK??? Why?? Their "GOOD GUYS" that are morally opposed to senseless killing.. No, they won't wanna kill Karate Kid..WHAT!?!? Why is he killing any of them??? NONE of these guys are bloodlusted... They won't realize its more effective unless they do it off the bat which they won't

In the OBD, all chars in every fight are automatically bloodlusted unless the OP states that they're not

Vynjira

01-20-2007, 08:05 PM

In the OBD, all chars in every fight are automatically bloodlusted unless the OP states that they're notActually I was told by Gooba, unless otherwise stated all fights are to the death, but all characters remain in character.

Gunners

01-20-2007, 08:08 PM

Actually I was told by Gooba, unless otherwise stated all fights are to the death, but all characters remain in character.

Yeah so when you are fighting someone and you intend to kill them...... You wouldn't fire attacks that don't kill them :huh?

~Shin~

01-20-2007, 08:08 PM

Actually I was told by Gooba, unless otherwise stated all fights are to the death, but all characters remain in character.

The battle becomes stupid if they stay in character. The purpose of the OBD is to put 2 chars at their strongest against each other, with no handicaps holding them back.

Vynjira

01-20-2007, 08:17 PM

Yeah so when you are fighting someone and you intend to kill them...... You wouldn't fire attacks that don't kill them :huh?Not in character they would have no intention of killing each other off the bat. That is left for the term bloodlust. For whatever purposes Gooba stated that it was too the death when I first joined which I said was pointless it should be to K.O. or death.The battle becomes stupid if they stay in character. The purpose of the OBD is to put 2 chars at their strongest against each other, with no handicaps holding them back.The point is to pit the two characters against each other a K.O. would count... it doesn't handicap, hell to the death kinda handicaps a fight. If I were to start a Thread Classic Juggernaut(WITHOUT HELMET) VS Professor X Then under the fight to death condition Prof. X, CANNOT win even tho he could clearly defeat Juggernaut. Why? Because he cannot kill Juggernaut despite his ability to K.O. him.

So in conclusion its dumb to fight to the death it should be K.O. or death and in character otherwise now Superman can speedblitz everyone to victory.

~Shin~

01-20-2007, 08:22 PM

Not in character they would have no intention of killing each other off the bat. That is left for the term bloodlust. For whatever purposes Gooba stated that it was too the death when I first joined which I said was pointless it should be to K.O. or death.

The point is to pit the two characters against each other a K.O. would count... it doesn't handicap, hell to the death kinda handicaps a fight. If I were to start a Thread Classic Juggernaut(WITHOUT HELMET) VS Professor X Then under the fight to death condition Prof. X, CANNOT win even tho he could clearly defeat Juggernaut. Why? Because he cannot kill Juggernaut despite his ability to K.O. him.

So in conclusion its dumb to fight to the death it should be K.O. or death and in character otherwise now Superman can speedblitz everyone to victory.

I wasn't talking about K.O not counting. I said that bloodlust is always on unless said otherwise, cuz some chars are stupid as hell in char. Example: Vash

And no, superman can't speedblitz everyone to victory

Vynjira

01-20-2007, 08:38 PM

I wasn't talking about K.O not counting. I said that bloodlust is always on unless said otherwise, cuz some chars are stupid as hell in char. Example: Vash

And no, superman can't speedblitz everyone to victoryYou know whats funny normally the OP says something about a character thats unwilling to use certain power in the opening post.. IE: Vash. They normally say something about him being bloodlusted.

Actually I've also noticed several posters normally throw in bloodlusted and to the death to make sure the fights aren't assumed otherwise.. but why would they do that if the OBD, had an official stance on that. If were gonna argue over this I think somewhere in a sticky that the official OBD standards for non-stated conditions to be a certain way.

EDIT: Also the one rule about OBD threads that was laid down by Gooba..

We should make a "No DBZ vs non DBZ or cosmic" rule.

SOURCE (http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=1394241&postcount=2)

Sharingan No Yondaime

01-20-2007, 08:56 PM

^ why u always vote for comics no matter what

theyre bloodlusted, they are not going to hold back on karate kid... now you say a normal human can take on 4 Z warriors?
you underestimate them ALOT

have you seen how fast they fight? i saw that comic karate kid fighting pre crisis superboy superboy was holding back the entire time- it was like a classic above average human sparring

piccolo yamcha tien and krillin go speedblitz and fight so fast you think they have 50 arms. karate kid stands NO chance and ur the ony one who thinks he dos

One blast that hits him and hes KILLEd EASILY

dont say he cant dodge all of em thats bs

Vynjira

01-20-2007, 09:07 PM

^ why u always vote for comics no matter what..I ..don't... want a link?

INSERT: Here's 1 (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=170083)
Here's 2 (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?p=6627671#post6627671)
Here's 3 (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=170691)
I can find more if you like...
theyre bloodlusted, they are not going to hold back on karate kid... now you say a normal human can take on 4 Z warriors?
you underestimate them ALOTThey are not bloodlusted they are in character. If you wanna argue get the OP to state what the conditions are.

have you seen how fast they fight? i saw that comic karate kid fighting pre crisis superboy superboy was holding back the entire time- it was like a classic above average human sparring

piccolo yamcha tien and krillin go speedblitz and fight so fast you think they have 50 arms. karate kid stands NO chance and ur the ony one who thinks he dos

One blast that hits him and hes KILLEd EASILY

dont say he cant dodge all of em thats bs

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/LSH111-14.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/LSH111-18.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/LSH111-19.jpg

~Shin~

01-20-2007, 09:22 PM

You know whats funny normally the OP says something about a character thats unwilling to use certain power in the opening post.. IE: Vash. They normally say something about him being bloodlusted.

Actually I've also noticed several posters normally throw in bloodlusted and to the death to make sure the fights aren't assumed otherwise.. but why would they do that if the OBD, had an official stance on that. If were gonna argue over this I think somewhere in a sticky that the official OBD standards for non-stated conditions to be a certain way.

EDIT: Also the one rule about OBD threads that was laid down by Gooba..

SOURCE (http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=1394241&postcount=2)

I wish people acutally followed that rule gooba made. But it doesn't always mean that every DBZ char<<Comic char

Vynjira

01-20-2007, 09:27 PM

I wish people acutally followed that rule gooba made. But it doesn't always mean that every DBZ char<<Comic charNo, but considering what Val has been capable of in the past and pit up against 4 in character Z Senshi that don't move faster than Superboy and don't share Superboy's durability and this being Val in his prime they get manhandled as they physically try to beat on him.

01-20-2007, 09:29 PM

18 - 16?!
This forum have some hardcore DB fans!

~Shin~

01-20-2007, 09:30 PM

No, but considering what Val has been capable of in the past and pit up against 4 in character Z Senshi that don't move faster than Superboy and don't share Superboy's durability and this being Val in his prime they get manhandled as they physically try to beat on him.

I never said that DBZ char can beat him in H2H. But ki blasts that destroy wide amounts of area will be most effective against a guy like him. And piccollo, and krillin are very capable of that

Vynjira

01-20-2007, 09:43 PM

I never said that DBZ char can beat him in H2H. But ki blasts that destroy wide amounts of area will be most effective against a guy like him. And piccollo, and krillin are very capable of that

MABY Piccolo would do that in character but the others definatly get cocky and try to H2H him.

~Shin~

01-20-2007, 09:45 PM

You know what, since u want to bring up this "in character" thing. We'll have 2 scenarios, one where they're in character, and the other one where they're all bloodlusted.

If they're in character, then Karate Kid wins

If they're bloodlusted, then the odds are against karate kid

mystictrunks

01-20-2007, 10:10 PM

Scenario 1(In Charecter): The Z warriors decide who will fight Karate kid first. If this is end of the series then either Tien or Piccolo will go first. I'll choose piccolo for this one.
Piccolo will engage in a hand to hand fight with KK and become over powered quickly,as things get worse Piccolo will take off his turban and cape and get serious,and will begin firing energy blasts. As KK dodges these Piccolo decides it's all or nothing and lets loose with the attack he used against Android 17,KK is slightly wounded by this attack,but managed to move up to Piccolo for the K.O.
Next up is Tien,seeing that Piccolo was defeated by this kid he starts the fight off in serious mode. As the fight gets worse and worse for him he decides to use the tri-beam(don't remember its japanese name),which should in all likely hood hurt KK,however after using it a few times Tien passes out. But not before KK is injured severly.
Next up is Krillin,who engages in hand to hand with the injured KK, fighting to a stand still,until he decides to gain some distance and fire a Kamehameha at him,dodging it KK is then blinded by a solar flare,and Krillin attacks with another Kamehameha, which knocks out KK.

Scenario 2(Blood Lust): Tien spams solar flare,whole Krillin and Piccolo fire off Kienzans and other energy attacks. Killing KK in a split second.

lucky

01-20-2007, 10:41 PM

Before I get into details let me ask you one question, do you think that this match up is somehow bloodlusted?

i'm not sure why this matters, but i'm working on the assumption that both parties will fight to their fullest potential.

Sometimes bloodlusted doesn't necessarily make someone fight at their best.

Sharingan No Yondaime

01-20-2007, 10:50 PM

solar flare is a good point brought up.

kienzan to slice up karate kid easily.

dbz wins this one time to move on

Vynjira

01-21-2007, 12:26 AM

Endless Mike

01-21-2007, 06:49 AM

Yeah, sounds good to me, too.

Jin22

01-21-2007, 10:29 AM

I should be like, "no", and keep this thing going. I did have like a couple more arguments I wanted to make daylight. :notrust

Whatever, I just want it to be clear that this is not the blowout that people are trying to make it out to be.

Reznor

01-22-2007, 09:21 AM

I generally agree with the concensus of it being up to blood-lustedness.
One thing about Karate Kid that I think is a double standard compared to DBZ:

KK has no feats, relatively speaking, compared to tiers logic with respect to people that do have real feats.

This is also the case with DBZ.

For example, if KK takes on Superboy, we don't then assume that Superboy about the power of a well-trained human, we assume that KK is super-trained so as to be able to keep up with super powers.

If the same sort of thing happens with DBZ - like the huge difference between ki blasts and planet busters destructive power, androids taking on DBZ crew, and so forth alot of ppl here do the opposite.

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 04:59 AM

Lol, a ki blast and KK is done for. If Superboy chose not to engage him hand-to-hand, he could win. Karate Kid has THE biggest and MOST extreme jobber aura seen to date!

Graham Aker

09-20-2007, 06:06 AM

I voted DBZ, I thought its POST-crisis :(
lol January.

Green Lantern

09-20-2007, 06:24 AM

Holy necroposting Batman!

Kuya

09-20-2007, 06:27 AM

haha y was my thread revived

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 06:41 AM

Because i HATE KK, and i think he is WAY to overrated... Even in close combat, he is not fast enough to keep up with the guys he usually fights. He is THE defination of a jobber aura.

Amatsu

09-20-2007, 06:42 AM

Yamcha loses. Everyone else wins.

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 06:43 AM

Why Yamcha? He is cool

Amatsu

09-20-2007, 06:45 AM

Why Yamcha? He is cool

Because Yamcha never wins.

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 06:46 AM

Well, he did win the... ehm.... Nah, he never wins, you are right. Actually, i dont remember him winning once. Well, he did defeat a Saibaman, but it technically ended in a draw:D

Amatsu

09-20-2007, 06:49 AM

Well, he did win the... ehm.... Nah, he never wins, you are right. Actually, i dont remember him winning once. Well, he did defeat a Saibaman, but it technically ended in a draw:D

He still died so he still lost

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 06:52 AM

It was a draw... The Saibaman had to kill it self in order to kill him:D However, still a draw... Not really a victory, through Yamcha could have won if he was prepared for what the Saibaman was capable of.

Amatsu

09-20-2007, 06:53 AM

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 06:55 AM

I know, i even said that from the start:P It was a draw, but Yamcha could have won if he was prepared:D

Amatsu

09-20-2007, 06:57 AM

Well even so. Yamcha fails so much he lost his woman to Vegeta.

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 06:58 AM

Hahaha, true... Yamcha has never won, but he can sure as hell defeat one who is so much slower and weaker than himself as Karte Kid. And a kiblast should end it instantly.

Amatsu

09-20-2007, 07:00 AM

depends. Hasn't Karate Kid kicked the asses of mid to high tier DC characters?

Kuya

09-20-2007, 07:17 AM

Hahaha, true... Yamcha has never won, but he can sure as hell defeat one who is so much slower and weaker than himself as Karte Kid. And a kiblast should end it instantly.

ur not giving Karate Kid that much credit.

make a Pre-Crisis Karate Kid fight vs. SSJ2 Vegeta or even SSJ3 Goku.

there will be a lot of debaters towards Karate Kid.

He was a strong and reliable person to have on ur team.

Banhammer

09-20-2007, 07:47 AM

There is no possible defense to the crane kick. Daniel San rapes, Mr Myagi has spoken

Now really, those guys are fodder.

master bruce

09-20-2007, 09:07 AM

he won in the first fight with goku.
I think, been awhile since I watched db that far back.

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 09:31 AM

This is a answer to all of them who answered me with things like "he fought top tier DC beings".

It was crapwriting.
On one side, we have Superman, who moves many times the speed of light and can crush planets and have an ice breath that could start a new ice age and he is nearly invulnerable.
On the other side... He is possibly not in much better shape than most athletes and have no superpowers, but "Lol, i am good at fighting" :S

You got my point. If i was Superman, i would not be crappy enough written to lose to Karate Kid...

A kiblast kills him in one shot with ease.

Endless Mike

09-20-2007, 10:14 AM

It's not crap writing if it's consistent. He's consistently shown to have these powers.

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 10:19 AM

So you claim that he can fight guys millions of times stronger and faster than himself?
Just by being a good fighter?

Endless Mike

09-20-2007, 10:41 AM

Considering that is what consistently happens. He has FTL reflexes and attack speed.

Dragon (banned)

09-20-2007, 10:43 AM

did KK beat super man? there fore, KK

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 10:44 AM

KK never beated Superman when SUperman was serious... Superman was careful to not kill KK and he was fighting headtohead, no wild flying or lasers and so. Still, very impressive of Karate Kid. He should never be able to do that by all logic, through.

Endless Mike

09-20-2007, 10:45 AM

Yet he did. So that's what we go by.

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 10:45 AM

Considering that is what consistently happens. He has FTL reflexes and attack speed.

Superspeed is not written in his powers;) BATMAN gave him problems in a fight, handtohand.

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 10:46 AM

Endless Mike, you believe Karate Kid can survive a ki blast?

Endless Mike

09-20-2007, 10:53 AM

Superspeed is not written in his powers;) BATMAN gave him problems in a fight, handtohand.

While he was mind - controlled and not himself.

After the control wore off, he beat Equus.

Dragon (banned)

09-20-2007, 10:54 AM

and he did it using pure skill. KK is a beast.

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 10:56 AM

He is skilled. Cool. But that wont help if he can barely move his arm before he has taken hundreds of punches.

Sylar

09-20-2007, 10:59 AM

He is skilled. Cool. But that wont help if he can barely move his arm before he has taken hundreds of punches.

Whine all you want.

It won't change the fact that Karate Kid is that damn good.

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 11:11 AM

Do ANY of you beleive he can survive a ki blast?

Darklyre

09-20-2007, 11:44 AM

Do ANY of you beleive he can survive a ki blast?

Considering he dodges lasers all the time....

TheJudge

09-20-2007, 12:11 PM

The KI blasts would explode and there would be too many for him to dodge...

Anyways, if the four fights in close combat, they are going to lose. Karate Kid can amp his punching power and handspeed to Superman-level.

lucky

09-20-2007, 12:15 PM

Darklyre

09-20-2007, 06:50 PM

team DBZ fo sho. i know how strong karate kid is... but lookit the teams!

Team DBZ are all consummate martial arts freaks... they LIVE for martial arts!!! so while their knowledge is probably comparable (if not slightly inferior, but i can't see piccalo being less experienced than KK) physically they're way above KK.

Until DBZ characters start reaching SBP levels of physical power, Karate Kid is still going to rape ass.

atom

09-20-2007, 07:22 PM

Whats stopping Tien from triblast?

mystictrunks

09-20-2007, 07:24 PM

Solar Flare to Destructo Disc/Tri-Beam

Instant Win. It worked in January and it works now.

Moogoogaipan

09-20-2007, 07:27 PM

KK can solo the DBZ verse

Bringing yamcha into this fight means negative points for dbz

Jay

09-20-2007, 10:35 PM

Considering he dodges lasers all the time....
That wasn't what he asked you. Do you think he can take a full powered Ki blast? not dodge, take.

Darklyre

09-20-2007, 11:47 PM

That wasn't what he asked you. Do you think he can take a full powered Ki blast? not dodge, take.

Undefended? No. If he sees it? He'll deflect it with SUPERKARATE.

Orion

09-20-2007, 11:51 PM

team DBZ fo sho. i know how strong karate kid is... but lookit the teams!

Team DBZ are all consummate martial arts freaks... they LIVE for martial arts!!! so while their knowledge is probably comparable (if not slightly inferior, but i can't see piccalo being less experienced than KK) physically they're way above KK.

Combine the skills of every single fighter in dbz and they arent half of what kk is,dbzers win if they spam ki blasts,in a physical fight kk can take anyone here.

TheJudge

09-21-2007, 04:55 AM

Combine the skills of every single fighter in dbz and they arent half of what kk is,dbzers win if they spam ki blasts,in a physical fight kk can take anyone here.

Agreed. Through chi, Karate Kid can move his hands at lightspeed and make punchingpower comparable to Superboy. However, he is still vulnerable to superhuman attacks, and he wont be able to defeat a storm of ki blasts.

Team DBZ 10/10