Myth Fenrir vs Myth Kyuubi

[Gray Wolf]

Who wins this I say Fenrir but Kyuubi could be a challenge.

[Iris]

What's a wolf gonna do vs. a Demon fox who's 100x larger and more powerfull?

[Sengoku]

Being a mythological fan ever since I was a child, I would have to say Fenrir would win.

Being Loki's eldest son and one of the most powerful creatures in the mythological world (including greek and egyptian), Fenrir would definitely win.

At some point, Fenrir grew so big that from his lower jaw to his upper jaw reached from the ground earth all the way to the skies, piercing it.
That is huge, my friends.

and the only way to defeat and kill Fenrir is when the day Ragnarok comes. And Kyuubi isnt Odin's son. So Fenrir would stomp Kyuubi's ass to the ground.

[Sengoku]

What's a wolf gonna do vs. a Demon fox who's 100x larger and more powerfull?

Exactly how big is kyuubi? Fenrir can swallow the moon :laugh

[Comic Book Guy]

From the legends and myths?

Fenrir.

[Iris]

Exactly how big is kyuubi? Fenrir can swallow the moon :laugh

He should be over 100m. tall.

He's tails crush mountains, cause tidal waves.

His regeneration makes him nearly invurnable.

Also his chakra should protect him.

[Darklyre]

Fenrir's TOENAILS could crush mountains, considering he's big enough to swallow the moon.

[Sengoku]

100m? i dont think thats bigger than Fenrir, deathscythe :P

Odin then had the dwarfs forge the chain Gleipnir ("deceiver" or "entangler"). It appeared to be only a silken ribbon but was made of six wondrous ingredients: the sound of a cat's footfall, the beard of a woman, the roots of a mountain, bear's sinews (meaning nerves, sensibility), fish's breath, and bird's spittle (which explains why these things are not found today).

^^ I doubt Kyuubi would be able to break that chain.

[Gray Wolf]

Fenrir is going to devour the king of the gods.

[SigbinPuti™]

fenrir is strong enough that the norse god feared it. and on the day of the ragnarok it took an enraged god to kill it not before it bit off a gods arm. i'd name the god but i haven't brushed up on my norse mythology

[Iris]

100m? i dont think thats bigger than Fenrir, deathscythe :P

Odin then had the dwarfs forge the chain Gleipnir ("deceiver" or "entangler"). It appeared to be only a silken ribbon but was made of six wondrous ingredients: the sound of a cat's footfall, the beard of a woman, the roots of a mountain, bear's sinews (meaning nerves, sensibility), fish's breath, and bird's spittle (which explains why these things are not found today).

^^ I doubt Kyuubi would be able to break that chain.

Sorry then:)

I had an completely different image of Fenrir.

Never thought of him to be that powerfull...

If that's the case then bye Kyubi lil foxy:laugh

[Sengoku]

Tinapay, I think you are thinking about Tyr, the god of war. But i dont think his hand was bitten off from the war (Ragnarok) but WAS when Fenrir wanted one of the gods to put his/her hand in Fenrir's mouth while performing to escape the chains, only Tyr, the god of war, was brave enough to take on this challenge. By doing so, his hand was bitten off.
Then again, I may be wrong ^_^

[The Wanderer]

Even the myth Kyuubi (who's the Ultimate Being in the Naruto Avenue) is getting his ass handed to him in the OB.

It is a sad day for Narutoverse when even bijuus are used as cannon fodder.

[SigbinPuti™]

im quite rusty on norse myth but i'm pretty sure fenrir killed odin. and vidar one of his 3 sons killed it by tearing its jaw.

besides ain't a ninetail fox in japanese lore a small magical fox

[Gray Wolf]

When the gods wanted chain Fenrir with Gleipnir. Fenrir said he would let them if one them put their hand in his mouth incase he could not break it. Tyr was the only god brave enough to do it and Fenrir bit his hand off.

[Sengoku]

Yep, Fenrir killed Odin and his son, Vidar, killed Fenrir.

Amazing thing is that they all knew who is going to die and who is not. AND that Ragnarok is inevitable.

Imagine knowing that you are doing the best you can muster but know that you are going to die in the end... THAT, my friends, would make an awesome AAA+++ title movie.

[Id]

Myth Fenrir. Didnt he eat Odin or something?

[Sengoku]

^ yes, he indeed did.
poor Odin :(

[Jin22]

im quite rusty on norse myth but i'm pretty sure fenrir killed odin. and vidar one of his 3 sons killed it by tearing its jaw.Yeah, in Norse mythology Fenrir did off Odin. And Vidar(Odin's youngest son) was the one to avenge Odin's death by killing Fenrir.

Anyway, I give this to Fenrir.

[SigbinPuti™]

imagine that king of the norse gods eaten. i hardly think kyuubi can kill a god

[Art of Run]

A new challenger appears!

Fenrir would destroy kyuubi then the entire narutoverse.

[Id]

Well I think Aztek/Mayan Sun/War God>>Fenrir.

He was killing other gods at birth.

[~Shin~]

Isn't myth kyuubi nigh-omnipotent?
That's what i heard so unless fenrir is nigh-omnipotent, it loses

[Sengoku]

I dont know much about the Mayan or Inca gods, but I know a little bit of Aztec gods though; such as Quetzalcoatl, Huitzilopitchli, etc...

[Sengoku]

Isn't myth kyuubi nigh-omnipotent?
That's what i heard so unless fenrir is nigh-omnipotent, it loses

Fenrir can only be killed by Vidar, unless stated otherwise from Gray Wolf.

[~Shin~]

^Then fenrir can't kill myth kyuubi either

[Sengoku]

why? Fenrir's dad is a god. Making him an omnipotent.
He killed Odin, ENOUGH evidence to prove so.

[Jin22]

All of the stuff I got on Japan's nine tails myth is solely through Naruto. That Kyubi would lose to the Fenrir of Norse Myth easily.

[Gray Wolf]

Both Fenrir and Kyuubi can kill each other if they can find a way to do it. I still say Fenrir because of his size and brute strength.

[Sengoku]

Even if it is like that, Fenrir would still win because of the size and strength alone.

AND since he is loki's son, he has his genes as well.

when I see Kitsune beating Amaterasu, let's talk :P
but i doubt that is going to happen

and i'm pretty sure we can all agree that Amaterasu and Odin are on the same "god tier" level.

[SigbinPuti™]

fenrir will only eat kyuubi fenrir is huge ass wolf

[~Shin~]

why? Fenrir's dad is a god. Making him an omnipotent.
He killed Odin, ENOUGH evidence to prove so.

Odin is a god, but he's not a true omnipotent. He's nigh-omnipotent. Most norse gods aren't really true omnnipotents.

Myth kyuubi's being highly underestimated, it has omniscience, it's not that hard for it find out fenrir's weakness

[Sengoku]

and it is easy for Fenrir to kill Kyuubi.

[mystictrunks]

fenrirs weakness is a son of Odin....Good luck finding one of those lying around.

Fenrir wins.

[~Shin~]

^U do know that omniscience means u have knowledge over everything. It's not so hard for myth kyuubi to get a son of Odin. With omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence can be achieved. Fenrir doesn't really stand a chance here

[Vicious]

which myth kyuubi is this? because theirs two versions.

[Sengoku]

oh so now kyuubi can have a supporting fighter with him? :laugh

[Vicious]

oh so now kyuubi can have a supporting fighter with him? :laugh

rotfl, wtf?? k godzilla fanboy:laugh

[Sengoku]

and your name reads naruto. enough said. :cry

[Hype]

rotfl, wtf?? k godzilla fanboy:laugh

not bad

and your name reads naruto. enough said. :cry

and that be Owned

[Nexas]

The fact that Fenrir has fate on his side is clearly an unfair advantage.

[Vicious]

and your name reads naruto. enough said. :cry

and your name reads dumbass. nuff. :cry

[Sengoku]

Seems like someone is mad. :laugh

I feel bad for Firemind as he is one of the members I respect ^_^
Just too bad he has bad followers when it comes to this thread

[Vicious]

Seems like someone is mad. :laugh

I feel bad for Firemind as he is one of the members I respect ^_^
Just too bad he has bad followers when it comes to this thread

respect?, i dont even know u r even care, u came outta now where and said
oh so now kyuubi can have a supporting fighter with him?
:laugh hahahahaha, fuck u!

and your name reads naruto. enough said. and what the fuck does this mean? so what, im a naruto fan. u have a problem with that?:mad

ps: oh, i get it your a op fan *duh*:nuts

[Hype]

respect?, i dont even know u r even care, u came outta now where

Can i get a translation :S

[Vicious]

Can i get a translation :S

respect? i dont even know you or even care, u came outta now where and said

oh so now kyuubi can have a supporting fighter with him?
:laugh

[Hype]

respect? i dont even know you or even care, u came outta now where and said


Ahh your having a childish insulting contest. Quality

negs both

Read

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=161721

In fact looking back I dont even see any fault with that post. You just went off the handle for no reason what so ever :S

[Tsukiyomi]

Isn't the Kyuubi of the myths a being of literally limitless power?

[Sengoku]

Yeah, i think im just going to ignore this kid. :laugh

[Vicious]

^their he goes with the insults again.:notrust

[Hype]

^their he goes with the insults again.:notrust

Which you started ?


oh so now kyuubi can have a supporting fighter with him? :laugh

A harmless joke. If you took offense to this I question why your even on the internet

rotfl, wtf?? k godzilla fanboy:laugh

Which you followed bye a fan boy bashing flame

and your name reads naruto. enough said. :cry

Which he replyed in kind

and your name reads dumbass. nuff. :cry

and you continued

respect?, i dont even know u r even care, u came outta now where and said
hahahahaha, fuck u!

and you took it to a new level of flame


ps: oh, i get it your a op fan *duh*:nuts

and then you insulted the OP fan base which I'm included in. So I guess I take offense to that too

bad day I guess

[~Shin~]

C'mon guys, didn't gooba just make a thread to stop all this meaningless flaming?

4thandnaruto and sengokugensui, there's no need to flame. If u guys think that someone's flaming, then don't respond to them. Pls don't ruin the OBD

[Sengoku]

anyway, onto the topic.

[~Shin~]

Unless, fenrir can stop a omniscient being, kyuubi wins

[Sengoku]

Firemind, I highly suggest you read about Odin

he is an omniscient being..

[~Shin~]

^I read about mythology before, and from what i read odin is far from being omniscient, if he was then he would have easily found a way to counter fenrir. Again, with omniscience, you can achieve both omnipotence and omnipresence. Odin didn't do any of those.

[Sengoku]

^ There is absolutely nothing he can do because its been prophesied that he will will be killed when Ragnarok comes.

HE is omnipotent because he knows everything around him. He is a GOD. He has infinite wisdom.

Those are all clear signs of omniscience.

[~Shin~]

^To an omnipotent being, there's no end. An omnipotent being can just change it so that nothing will happen. If odin was defeated then, he's not an omnipotent

[Vicious]

myth kyuubi also has inifinte wisdom, and can create pockets in reality. if odin is omnipotent than how did fenrir beat him?

[Sengoku]

Omnipotence (literally, "all power") is power with no limits or inexhaustible, in other words, unlimited power.

Which he gained by sacrificing his eye to the Well of Wisdom.
Not only THAT, but he also hung himself on the trees of Yggdrasil for 9 days and 9 nights to know about the secrets of the 9 worlds.


Omniscience is the capacity to know everything infinitely, or at least everything that can be known about a character's including thoughts, feelings, life and the universe etc.

Odin (Old Norse Óðinn) is considered the chief god in Norse mythology and Norse paganism.
From his throne, Hlidskjalf (located in Valaskjalf), Odin could see everything that occurred in the universe.

[~Shin~]

^Again, if he was a true omnipotent, then no being can even get near him. But odin was defeated by fenrir, omnipotents don't get defeated no matter what. That's what omnipotence gives you

[Sengoku]

^^ not always, just look at marvel and you will see omnipotence people getting trashed.

Prophesy is prophesy, there is nothing you can do about it. Norse mythology relies heavily on destiny.

[~Shin~]

^That's why i'm saying u can't really say norse gods are true omnipotents. If u're a true omnipotent then u're like TOAA, and TOAA has never gotten beat and no one can even hope to beat him

[Sengoku]

wrong. Living Tribunal is also an omnipotent deity and YET he was also powerless to stop Thanos.

[~Shin~]

^There's a difference between true omnipotence and omnipotence.
True omnipotents are TOAA, LoN, The presence, Kami tenchi
Omnipotents are Living tribunal, Death, Eternity and such
True omnipotents are completely unstoppable, nothing in any universe can stop them

[Sengoku]

Ok, lets review back then

Kyuubi is considered what then? True Omni ?

If you think so, it is ignorant to do so.

I will lower Odin to Omnipotent and nothing else. Not above or lower.

[ZergKage]

Well from what i read myth Fenrir wasnt anything special. Can anyone remind me what he did that would get him a win over myth Kyuubi?? If i remember right Odin wasnt much either (beside being very wise)

[Jin22]

It seems the site that I got my Norse info is still up.

http://www.timelessmyths.com/norse/aesir.html#Odin

[Sengoku]

cool site.

[RedhairShanks]

This is an interesting argument.
From what i remember, Odin was an omniscient being (had infinite wisdom and all that) so he KNEW beforehand of Ragnarok, yet Fenrir still killed him.

Just because the Kyuubi can see the events coming doesnt mean that it can stop Fenrir.

Now on to the next point... according to the mythology, Fenrir will be killed by a specific person (Odin's son). If you consider this, there's no way that Kyuubi can kill him since he's destined to die by someone else. (We should throw this out though since its kinda like arguing that nobody can hit bleach characters because they cant be seen / touched by normal humans :P )

If we disregard all the prophecy of Ragnarok crap and just make it to where they are able to actually fight with eachother, i'd say Fenrir would win. Kyuubi would realize that theres no way it can stop him, and just see his death as inevitable. (same way Odin did :( )

By the way, this is my first post here, so hi guys :)

[Jin22]

cool site.Thanks :thumbs

[Gray Wolf]

Well from what i read myth Fenrir wasnt anything special. Can anyone remind me what he did that would get him a win over myth Kyuubi?? If i remember right Odin wasnt much either (beside being very wise)

Fenrir and his brother Jormungandr will bring an end to the world both killing gods. Odin is stronger then you think he was a god of many things like war, magic, death, hunt and wisdom.

[Comic Book Guy]

[quote]wrong. Living Tribunal is also an omnipotent deity and YET he was also powerless to stop Thanos.[quote]

If you're getting that info from the Wikipedia page, it's wrong.

[Jin22]

Fenrir and his brother Jormungandr will bring an end to the world both killing gods. Odin is stronger then you think he was a god of many things like war, magic, death, hunt and wisdom.Yeah, that about sums it up. And what you say is being generous, Fenrir would absolutely slaughter Kyuubi.

[Sengoku]

This is an interesting argument.
From what i remember, Odin was an omniscient being (had infinite wisdom and all that) so he KNEW beforehand of Ragnarok, yet Fenrir still killed him.

Just because the Kyuubi can see the events coming doesnt mean that it can stop Fenrir.

Now on to the next point... according to the mythology, Fenrir will be killed by a specific person (Odin's son). If you consider this, there's no way that Kyuubi can kill him since he's destined to die by someone else. (We should throw this out though since its kinda like arguing that nobody can hit bleach characters because they cant be seen / touched by normal humans :P )

If we disregard all the prophecy of Ragnarok crap and just make it to where they are able to actually fight with eachother, i'd say Fenrir would win. Kyuubi would realize that theres no way it can stop him, and just see his death as inevitable. (same way Odin did :( )

By the way, this is my first post here, so hi guys :)

Welcome! and yeah fate ftw :[

[ZergKage]

Fenrir and his brother Jormungandr will bring an end to the world both killing gods. Odin is stronger then you think he was a god of many things like war, magic, death, hunt and wisdom.

Being a god doesnt mean much. Gods get beat all the time. Odin wasnt as strong as you think he was. Matter of fact as i remember it every time he needed something taken care of he called Thor to do it. Odin was just very wise and that was it, unless you can tell me what he did that makes him so powerful.

As far as Fenrir bringin an end to the gods how is he supposed to do that when he is dead?

[Sengoku]

and kyuubi isnt even that strong either.

from what i've read, it is just smart too.

[Gray Wolf]

Being a god doesnt mean much. Gods get beat all the time. Odin wasnt as strong as you think he was. Matter of fact as i remember it every time he needed something taken care of he called Thor to do it. Odin was just very wise and that was it, unless you can tell me what he did that makes him so powerful.

As far as Fenrir bringin an end to the gods how is he supposed to do that when he is dead?

Odin was the king of the gods why would he do something himself when he could get his son to do it for him? Odin was a shape shifter and a healer and start wars an a instant, Odin was king for a reason.

I said Fenrir and Jormungandr would end the world and kill gods not bring an end to the gods, Fenrir kills Odin and Jormungandr kills Thor.

[Sengoku]

It is so cool to envision Fenrir in real life

scary sight ^_^;

[ZergKage]

http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=1971626&postcount=4

Can always read there if you think Kyuubi was weak.

Odin was the king of the gods why would he do something himself when he could get his son to do it for him? Odin was a shape shifter and a healer and start wars an a instant, Odin was king for a reason.

I said Fenrir and Jormungandr would end the world and kill gods not bring an end to the gods, Fenrir kills Odin and Jormungandr kills Thor.

Odin was the king because of how wise he was, i dont know how many times i can say that. What has Odin done that makes him such a good fighter that you use him a leverage. Hell what did Fenrir do besides get trapped by the lamest chains i've ever heard of. He was trapped by items such as the noise of a cat, beard of woman, breath of a fish and spittle of a bird.

[Sengoku]

makes cyclones, can cause meteorites, etc.

Fenrir can swallow the whole moon...

[ZergKage]

Can you show me where it states he swallows the moon.

[Sengoku]

Reason why I said Fenrir is capable of swallowing the moon AND also the sun is because of the fact that his sons, Hati and Skoll, did so at the days of Ragnarok. Also, Fenrir is also the biggest wolf in Norse mythology and being the father of Hati and Skoll, who did so easily, its probable to think that Fenrir could do the same.

[Vicious]

Amaterasu from okami beats them bothsmile-big

anyway, like i said which version of kyuubi are we using? theirs two versions.

myth Kitsune or kyuubi from the tailed demons.

[Sengoku]

Hati ate the moon while Skoll ate the sun.

[ZergKage]

So can i see proof of that?

[omg laser pew pew!]

Some people in here really need to know the correct definition of omnipotence and omniscience

[Sengoku]

So can i see proof of that?

yes sir,

http://www.hatiandskoll.com/legend.htm

http://www.cybersamurai.net/Mythology/nordic_gods/H/Hati.htm

[Gray Wolf]

Amaterasu from okami beats them bothsmile-big

anyway, like i said which version of kyuubi are we using? theirs two versions.

myth Kitsune or kyuubi from the tailed demons.

We are using the tailed demon Kyuubi.

[ZergKage]

yes sir,

http://www.hatiandskoll.com/legend.htm

http://www.cybersamurai.net/Mythology/nordic_gods/H/Hati.htm

No that because they can do it Fenrir can too. Thats like saying Kyuubi can destory the moon because he has unlimited power

[Sengoku]

Gray Wolf, have you played Age of Mythology? :laugh

[Sengoku]

No that because they can do it Fenrir can too. Thats like saying Kyuubi can destory the moon because he has unlimited power

doesnt matter. you cant use kitsune.

[Id]

I thought Kyuubi was regarded as a force of nature (not so much as a god itself).
And Odin is pretty fucking smart, hence the reason why he gave up his eye.

[Sengoku]

I thought Kyuubi was regarded as a force of nature (not so much as a god itself).
And Odin is pretty fucking smart, hence the reason why he gave up his eye.

^^ totally agreed. I dont think kyuubi was even a god to begin with.

[Gray Wolf]

Gray Wolf, have you played Age of Mythology? :laugh

Yea awesome game I have an interest in old mythology so the game is great both story and gameplay wise.

[Id]

I dont know much about the Mayan or Inca gods, but I know a little bit of Aztec gods though; such as Quetzalcoatl, Huitzilopitchli, etc...
Yup the Mayan to Aztek myth have the same relationship to the Greek to Roman myth. (to a certain extent).

The Relationship?
Same gods/legends different names.


Oh and I speak of Huitzilopitchli, at birth he defended his mother annihilating his jealous brothers in the process . That’s fucking badass.

[Sengoku]

sounds badass :) .
He was featured in one of the Everworld books. (book series about gods etc.)
I think it was book 2, should have a face of huitzilpocthli on the cover. Book 1 has a picture of a wolf (possibly fenrir) and it was about loki, etc.

[ZergKage]

doesnt matter. you cant use kitsune.

I guess i'm confused here, was the OP stating Kyuubi in myth or Kyuubi in Naruto?

[Gray Wolf]

Yup the Mayan to Aztek myth have the same relationship to the Greek to Roman myth. (to a certain extent).

The Relationship?
Same gods/legends different names.


Oh and I speak of Huitzilopitchli, at birth he defended his mother annihilating his jealous brothers in the process . That’s fucking badass.

Interesting I went to Belize a few years ago and saw Mayan temples. The guide talked to us about the Mayan calendar which the world ends in 2012.

The guide did not tell us much about the Mayan gods they talked more about the culture and the people.

[Sengoku]

i think the other guy was asking if we are using myth kitsune or kyuubi 9 tails.

Gray Wolf said this, "We are using the tailed demon Kyuubi."

at first i thought we were using the myth kyuubi but i guess its now naruto kyuubi hehee.

[Sengoku]

Interesting I went to Belize a few years ago and saw Mayan temples. The guide talked to us about the Mayan calendar which the world ends in 2012.

The guide did not tell us much about the Mayan gods they talked more about the culture and the people.

that would be scary if that were true!!!

i would be counting to see Odin doing battle with the monsters then if that were to happen! XD it would be an amazing sight to see.

man, i kinda wish all the mythological stuff were real =)
it would be one scary place to live in but you will also have gods to protect ya XD

[ZergKage]

Well Gray???

[Vicious]

I guess i'm confused here, was the OP stating Kyuubi in myth or Kyuubi in Naruto?
theirs two myth's. the kitsune can create crazy illusions, and can fold space-time and create pockets realms etc.. and kitsune is the servent for Kami Inari. the other is from the legend with the other tailed demons. and has unlimited strength,stamina and has fought over 100 years.

[Sengoku]

Gray Fox, what is your favorite unit in the game?

I used to like the Chimera but now I like the Einherjar, especially with the upgraded pot stew which makes him, Giant-Killers Einherjar. Yummy stew lol :laugh

They look very terrifying, especially when they carry two large poleaxes or whatever. AND ESPECIALLY the horn blasts they blow on; sounds very menancing :cry

[Vicious]

Zergy~:blahblah :blahblah :P

[ZergKage]

theirs two myth's. the kitsune can create crazy illusions, and can fold space-time and create pockets realms etc.. and kitsune is the servent for Kami Inari. the other is from the legend with the other tailed demons. and has unlimited strength,stamina and has fought over 100 years.

Cool but i dont see why the OP would say myth Kyuubi and mean Naruto's Kyuubi.

[Id]

Interesting I went to Belize a few years ago and saw Mayan temples. The guide talked to us about the Mayan calendar which the world ends in 2012.

The guide did not tell us much about the Mayan gods they talked more about the culture and the people.

Yeah the calendar is interesting in itself as well.

Its colander that measures time, days, weeks, months, and years.
Supposedly its more accurate then the current calendar we use.

[Sengoku]

hmm thats pretty scary

considering what age we live in heh

[Gray Wolf]

This is the Kyuubi I am talking about. http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=1971626&postcount=4

[Sengoku]

sigh, im actually hoping that they will make Age of Mythology II with Aztec and Hindu myths.

But, also, implement an option where you can actually summon gods to do battle with the enemies. I guess summoning gods would be an option for the expansion though XD considering the fact that the titans was an expansion for AOM.

[ZergKage]

Well that one has unlimited power....

[Vicious]

can fenrir fly?

[ZergKage]

No.

(lengthener)

[Sengoku]

doesnt need to, considering the fact that he is "capable" enough to swallow the sun or moon due to his immense size alone.

[ZergKage]

It is stated no where that he is that size. If he was that big then Ragnarok would have been over in seconds.

[Sengoku]

size of what?

usually in myths, it is suppose to let your imagination do the thinking.
uh... ragnarok would end in matter of seconds? buddy, i didnt write or create the mythology. blame them.

also, kitsune isnt an omnipotent.

[Chatulio]

sun is way bigger than the fenrir XD. If this is myth kyuubi vs. Myth fenrir, fenrir wins this in terms of power. Myth Kyuubi having infinite wisdom/omnisciences could trick fenrir into doing something stupid which leads to his own defeat :D.

[Vicious]

fenrir isnt omnipotent either. either way this would be a good battle.imo, except that myth's are to hard to use in these battles. i also remember on a site saying that when kyuubi stands up he looks like a second moon.

[Sengoku]

Gray Wolf, can we use the powers in full extent in favor of Fenrir? Meaning able to use Ragnarok and prophesy as my backup firepower?

[Sengoku]

except for the fact that Fenrir being the king of all the wolves and the strongest, his two sons are able to swallow the moon and the sun, HIGHLY suggests that hati and skoll are even bigger than the sun and moon. AND also the facts that show how big Fenrir's mouth is from the ground earth and all the way to the skies of heaven, piercing it, both signifies how massive Fenrir and his two sons are.

[Gray Wolf]

They said when Fenrir opened his jaw it reached both heaven and earth.

[ZergKage]

size of what?

usually in myths, it is suppose to let your imagination do the thinking.
uh... ragnarok would end in matter of seconds? buddy, i didnt write or create the mythology. blame them.

also, kitsune isnt an omnipotent.

So then there's no point in going further since its just your imagination vs mine??

[Sengoku]

^^ Now correct me if im wrong but, in norse mythology, there are approx how many worlds? i think there were 9 worlds in all..

[Gray Wolf]

Gray Wolf, can we use the powers in full extent in favor of Fenrir? Meaning able to use Ragnarok and prophesy as my backup firepower?

Yes you can so can the fire god Kyuubi.

[Sengoku]

So then there's no point in going further since its just your imagination vs mine??

you used the facts given to you. you dont just make up your own bs storyline by saying OH NO, FENRIR canT BE THAT BIG THATS NOT POSSIBLE. RAGNAROK WOULD END IN SECONDS.. lol.

[Vicious]

is this fenrir related to Amaterasu or something? this guy: http://www.gameaxis.com/img/blog/138/Image/Okami%20screen%20(480%20x%20360).jpgaww lil puppy:nod

[Sengoku]

Fenrir is based on Norse Mythology not Japanese Mythology.

Though, i havent played Okami yet, i wouldnt be surprised if it is Fenrir, but i highly HIGHLy doubt the wolf's name is fenrir. Who knows? :huh

[Vicious]

his name is Amaterasu:notrust *i think*

[Chatulio]

^There are nine worlds. And Ragnorok would last more than a few seconds since the whole Odin vs. Fenrir is supposed to be epic scale.

In okami the wolf thing is the japanese sun goddess

[ZergKage]

No you have it all wrong, your taking everything word for word. Its like when people debate if Popo really moved faster than lightning or was he just implying to move very fast. Me, i take it as he was big but it was never said that he could swallow the moon. Or opening his jaw to reach heaven and earth. You'd take that as hes as big as the universe(or some such) as i would take it as just having a big mouth. There is nothing in all that i read that said Fenrir was big enough to swallow the moon. Thus from what i gather your saying(since everyone else was somewhat normal height) that if he could swallow the moon he would be to big to fit on earth.

[Sengoku]

his name is Amaterasu:notrust *i think*

then why did you ask that question in the first place :notrust.

Norse =/= Japanese

[Sengoku]

oh, so you want painters to draw real life scale size of fenrir and totally disregard and not draw the gods????? LOL

[ZergKage]

Hhhhuuuuh?

[Sengoku]

You are throwing out real life physics to this debate too seriously.
Mythology =/= reality. Remember that VERY well.

If stated so that Fenrir's mouth is as big as from the ground earth to the heavens, then it is. period.

stop using real physics and properties into this battle.

[Gray Wolf]

Norse mythology is full of huge creatures. Fenrir's brother Jormungandr was said to be able to wrap around the earth. Kyuubi was huge according to mythology.

[ZergKage]

No i'm not turning this into real word physics, your taking things to literal. Simple as that, its very silly to think Fenrir's mouth could strech from Earth to the heavens but if thats what you want to think then thats what i mean when i say its no use going any further because your imagination is running crazy.

[Sengoku]

Ok, then lets just end this by saying that nothing can kill Fenrir other than Vidar himself, and only himself.

[Gray Wolf]

No i'm not turning this into real word physics, your taking things to literal. Simple as that, its very silly to think Fenrir's mouth could strech from Earth to the heavens but if thats what you want to think then thats what i mean when i say its no use going any further because your imagination is running crazy.

Fenrir mouth reaching both heaven and earth is in Norse Mythology so it counts.

[RedhairShanks]

While i do agree that Fenrir is depicted as being huge (judging from the jaws touching both heaven and earth), you guys are forgetting that this mythology was made in a period where people didnt know exactly how large the earth and moon were.

Fenrir is still huge, but im only pointing out that the size of some of these creatures (especially the one that ate the sun) may be exaggerated since you're comparing them to modern day knowledge of how large the sun and moon are. I highly doubt the Norse people knew the sun was so damn huge :P

[Sengoku]

If they knew that the moon and the sun were as big as todays
it wouldnt stop them from still saying that they can swallow them.

I mean, if they said that Fenrir's Jaws were from earth to the heavens, i'm pretty sure it doesnt take a rocket scientist to know how big is that.

Also, they have mountains too. so they would know how tall the heavens were, and they know that the heavens extends even further up to the skies.

[chibbi-kitsune]

Alright being the Kyuubi fan I am I think god of fire Kyuubi "might" lose to Fenrir. Size means nothing to me. Power =/= Size. It would be a good fight. Fenrir may come out on top. I can't really decide because Fenrir doesn't seem to be anything special except for his size. If it was myth Kitsune he could just create his own reality drag fenrir inside turn into vidar (sp) and slaughter him.

[Sengoku]

Can you please post links where kitsune can become a clone of a god?

[RedhairShanks]

Well, i already stated that the jaws reaching from heaven to earth proved that fenrir is huge, so im not arguing with you there.

But the Norse people didnt know that the sun was so far away from earth and that it was a few million times the size of it (not sure on the number :P ). Judging from their appearances in the sky, they probably thought the sun and moon were the same size and much smaller than what they actually are.

If this is true, then eating the sun or moon wouldnt be as large a feat as you guys are making it out to be, although still very huge.

[Sengoku]

Hmm it would be helpful if you actually posted some links showing that the norsemen didnt know the distance and the sizes of both the moon and the sun.

eitherway, i wouldnt be surprised if they didnt know. just curious though, need links.

[Gray Wolf]

Fenrir is also incredibly strong he broke all his bindings before gleipnir when he was smaller. The gods feared Fenrir's strength when he got bigger everyday.

[Khamzul]

What is important to remember is that norse mythology has an inconsistent lore. Atleast, in some ways. Odin could see everything from his throne - yet he still used Hugin and Munin (his ravens) to gain news from foreign lands. Loke always managed to fool the god's, even when Hugin and Munin told Odin everything.

What confuses me is what Kyuubi we are using. If we are using the Kyuubi from Naruto I think that Fenrir would win, but if we are using Myth Kyuubi (Kitsune) then I don't think Fenrir got a chance. But since OP it stated Naruto Kyuubi somewhere in the thread, I will go with that.

If we are to be talking everything literally then Kyuubi could bind the Fenrir with a chain made of:

-The spit of a bird
-A womans beard
-The roots of the mountains
-The breath of a fish
-The sound of a cat walking
-And the sinew of a bear

Which would be thinner then a wire of silk.

Another thing to consider is that when Ragnarok starts, then the wolf would have jaws reaching from the sky to the earth. To determine a "current Fenrir" can also be taken into consideration.

"It is prophesied that at Ragnarök the wolf will at last break free and join forces with the enemies of the gods and will then devour Odin himself. After that Viðarr, Odin's son, will slay the wolf to avenge his father, either with a sword through the heart, or by tearing apart the wolf after placing one foot shod with a special shoe on its lower jaw and one hand on its upper jaw."

[SigbinPuti™]

unless kyuubi can kill a god he can never defeat fenrir. fenrir is a demigod in sense cause its father is loki. whats the kyuubi gonna do to fenrir wag its tail in front of fenrir. fenrir trampled gods who has power over midgard

[chibbi-kitsune]

unless kyuubi can kill a god he can never defeat fenrir. fenrir is a demigod in sense cause its father is loki. whats the kyuubi gonna do to fenrir wag its tail in front of fenrir. fenrir trampled gods who has power over midgard
God of fire kyuubi as his name states he is a god. If Fenrir is a demigod that kills gods why can't kyuubi?

Can you please post links where kitsune can become a clone of a god?
If it can create and control its own realities a feat like that should be simple. There are a gazillion different ways kitsune could defeat fenrir with control over reality.

link to kitsune powers
http://www.comnet.ca/~foxtrot/kitsune/kitsune8.htm

[Gray Wolf]

Good arguments have been made for both Fenrir and Kyuubi this match is looking even better. Fenrir can sense deception he did not trust the gods when they wanted put gleipnir on him, that is why Tyr lost his hand.

Does Kyuubi have the power to fool Fenrir when the Norse gods had to make a deal with Fenrir to put the gleiphnir on him.

[~Shin~]

^Kyuubi's omniscient, i'm sure it could find a way to fool fenrir

[Jin22]

Odin was the most powerful of the gods in Norse mythology; he aided in creating a world; his son Thor killed a serpant that was so large that it wrapped around the entire globe and yet Odin was more powerful. Lastly, Fenrir had this guy for a snack. Kyuubi competes with that how?

[Sengoku]

still no proof where it shows he can cloned as a different god.

kyuubi isnt even a god to begin with.

[Gray Wolf]

The snake Thor killed was Fenrir's brother Jormungandr. Thor and Jormungandr kill each other in battle.

The gods tried to prevent Fenrir from ending the world but they saw it was inevitable and still fight to prevent it.

[chibbi-kitsune]

still no proof where it shows he can cloned as a different god.

kyuubi isnt even a god to begin with.
Okay. He did say myth Kyuubi right? Myth Kyuubi IS THE GOD of FIRE.

Myth kitsune can control his own reality. What is going to stop it from using this to kill Fenrir. He should easily be able to kill fenrir in a world that is complete control by him.

[Endless Mike]

Myth Fenrir is too strong, he kills Odin ffs.

[Sengoku]

Okay. He did say myth Kyuubi right? Myth Kyuubi IS THE GOD of FIRE.

Myth kitsune can control his own reality. What is going to stop it from using this to kill Fenrir. He should easily be able to kill fenrir in a world that is complete control by him.

yet, you still cannot provide me enough sufficient amount of evidence to prove so otherwise.

1.) you didn't provide a link showing where he transformed into a god.
2.) ^^ he isn't even a god to begin with. ONLY a thing, not a god.
3.) he isn't the "god" of fire, Amaterasu already filled that position.
4.) Prophesy is a prophesy. DOESN'T matter if he can or he can't, if it's stated in the prophesy, then there is no way in hell you can change it.

seriousness aside, wolf beats fox. :laugh

[Art of Run]

Wolf > fox

[~Shin~]

yet, you still cannot provide me enough sufficient amount of evidence to prove so otherwise.

1.) you didn't provide a link showing where he transformed into a god.
2.) ^^ he isn't even a god to begin with. ONLY a thing, not a god.
3.) he isn't the "god" of fire, Amaterasu already filled that position.
4.) Prophesy is a prophesy. DOESN'T matter if he can or he can't, if it's stated in the prophesy, then there is no way in hell you can change it.

seriousness aside, wolf beats fox.

According to the mythology, the kitsune is the god of fire.
So r u saying that if someone prophesized that living tribunal was to die, he can't change that? If odin was omniscient, and omnipotent he would have no problem breaking a prophecy.

A wolf wouldn't beat a fox 10/10 times. Foxes are pretty damn cunning.

[Limit_Tester]

A wolf would almost always be able to beat a fox. A fox is really a very tiny animal.

As for Kyuubi, I have no seen one reference to its omniscience, so if anyone can provide a link... go for it.

As far as I can see in this debate. No one is omniscient and no one is omnipotent.

We are not dealing with a monotheistic universe here.

[Giovanni Rild]

A wolf would almost always be able to beat a fox. A fox is really a very tiny animal.

As for Kyuubi, I have no seen one reference to its omniscience, so if anyone can provide a link... go for it.

As far as I can see in this debate. No one is omniscient and no one is omnipotent.

We are not dealing with a monotheistic universe here.

You Fail at Rild Slaying

Kitsune are believed to possess great intelligence, long life, and magical powers. They are a type of yōkai, or spiritual entity, and the word kitsune is often translated as fox spirit. However, this does not mean that kitsune are ghosts, nor that they are fundamentally different from regular foxes. Because the word spirit is used to reflect a state of knowledge or enlightenment, all long-lived foxes gain supernatural abilities.[5]

There are two common classifications of kitsune. The myobu are benevolent, celestial foxes associated with Inari; they are sometimes simply called Inari foxes. On the other hand, the wild nogitsune (literally, field foxes) tend to be mischievous or even malicious.[9] Local traditions add further types.[9] For example, a ninko is an invisible fox spirit that human beings can only perceive when it possesses them. Another tradition classifies kitsune into one of thirteen types defined by which supernatural abilities the kitsune possesses.[10][11]

Physically, kitsune are noted for having as many as nine tails.[12] Generally, a greater number of tails indicates an older and more powerful fox; in fact, some folktales say that a fox will only grow additional tails after it has lived 1,000 years.[13] One, five, seven, and nine tails are the most common numbers in folk stories.[14] When a kitsune gains its ninth tail, its fur becomes white or gold.[12] These kyūbi no kitsune (nine-tailed foxes) gain the abilities to see and hear anything happening anywhere in the world. Other tales attribute them infinite wisdom, essentially omniscience.[15]
This obake karuta (monster card) from the early 19th century depicts a kitsune. The associated game involves matching clues from folklore to pictures of specific creatures.
Enlarge
This obake karuta (monster card) from the early 19th century depicts a kitsune. The associated game involves matching clues from folklore to pictures of specific creatures.

A kitsune may take on human form, an ability learned when it reaches a certain age — usually 100 years, although some tales say 50.[13] As a common prerequisite for the transformation, the fox must place reeds, a broad leaf, or a skull over its head.[16] Common forms assumed by kitsune include beautiful women, young girls, or elderly men. These shapes are not limited by the fox's age or gender,[5] and a kitsune can duplicate the appearance of a specific person.[17] Foxes are particularly renowned for impersonating beautiful women. Common belief in medieval Japan was that any woman encountered alone, especially at dusk or night, could be a fox.[18]

In some stories, kitsune have difficulty hiding their tails when they take human form; looking for the tail, perhaps when the fox gets drunk or careless, is a common method of discerning the creature's true nature.[19] Variants on the theme have the kitsune retain other foxlike traits, such as a coating of fine hair, a fox-shaped shadow, or a reflection that shows its true form.[20] Kitsune-gao or fox-faced refers to human females who have a narrow face with close-set eyes, thin eyebrows, and high cheekbones. Traditionally, this facial structure is considered attractive, and some tales ascribe it to foxes in human form.[21] Kitsune have a great fear and hatred of dogs even while in human form, and some become so rattled by the presence of dogs that they revert to the shape of a fox and flee. A particularly devout individual may be able to see through a fox's disguise automatically.[22]

One folk story illustrating these imperfections in the kitsune's human shape concerns Koan, a historical person credited with wisdom and magical powers of divination. According to the story, he was staying at the home of one of his devotees when he burned his foot entering a bath because the water had been drawn too hot. Then, "in his pain, he ran out of the bathroom naked. When the people of the household saw him, they were astonished to see that Koan had fur covering much of his body, along with a fox's tail. Then Koan transformed in front of them, becoming an elderly fox and running away."[23]

Other supernatural abilities commonly attributed to the kitsune include possession, mouths or tails that generate fire or lightning (known as kitsune-bi; literally, fox-fire), willful manifestation in the dreams of others, flight, invisibility, and the creation of illusions so elaborate as to be almost indistinguishable from reality.[20][16] Some tales speak of kitsune with even greater powers, able to bend time and space, drive people mad, or take fantastic shapes such as a tree of incredible height or a second moon in the sky.[24][25] Other kitsune have characteristics reminiscent of vampires or succubi and feed on the life or spirit of human beings, generally through sexual contact.[26]

[Limit_Tester]

Thanks buddy.

[Sengoku]

notice the keywordS, "OTHER tales."

if one suggested that kitsune is indeed an omnipotent, why arent they the strongest? WHY are there SEVERAL of them?

Odin knows magic, what makes you think magic is going to work on Fenrir? Because it's stated in the prophesy that no matter what he does, it's inevitable.

[Sengoku]

But that's okay, you guys may think Odin isn't an omnipotent, but at least he's the CHIEF of all gods, and more importantly, he's an actual god. Kitsune isn't.
Give me an actual mythology site NOT naruto, that says Kitsune is a god but NOT in a simile type way.

kitsune hasn't done anything extraordinary to make me think he can pull what fenrir did.

and no one said anything about the wolf beating the fox 10/10.

[~Shin~]

^Just to warn u, u shouldn't triple post, just use the edit button. Double posting is bad enough, triple posting is really bad.

For odin to be considered omnipotent, i need to see something that actually implies that he's omnipotent. Any reality bending, creating multiverses, total control. If u can show me a link where i can see odin doing all that, then i'll believe that odin is an omnipotent

[Sengoku]

just because one bends reality DOESN'T mean he's omnipotent.

definition of being omnipotent means you have unlimited power AND/OR authority.

Kitsune doesnt have that. kitsune ISNT greater than Amaterasu.

[~Shin~]

^I never said kitsune was omnipotent, i said kitsune was omniscient, and if ur omniscient, u can figure out a way to become omnipotent.

[Limit_Tester]

^I never said kitsune was omnipotent, i said kitsune was omniscient, and if ur omniscient, u can figure out a way to become omnipotent.

Knowing how to do something and being able to do it are two different things.

[~Shin~]

^It depends what it is. When ur omniscient u can find out a way to do everything, and execute it.

[Sengoku]

Firemind, i believe i've already established the fact AND ALSO gave out reasons why odin is omnipresence and omniscience

[~Shin~]

^I believe he's omniscient, but not so sure about the omnipotent and omnipresence part

[Sengoku]

he is "everywhere"
HENCE why he knows everything that is going on in the universe.

[~Shin~]

^U don't have to be everywhere to know what's going on. That's what omniscience provides

[Sengoku]

Which odin has.

Do i have to explain why and how he gained infinite knowledge twice now ? :laugh

[~Shin~]

^I know odin has omniscience. Just cuz u have omniscience doesn't exactly mean ur omnipresent. Again, omniscience can't be explained by human terms, u just know everything. There's no explanation to it

[Sengoku]

if odin knew what everything is going on in the universe at the same time

be that person's perspective's view. would you think odin is watching me and my friends at the same time? yep he is :D

[~Shin~]

^Not really, that could just mean he can mind read. Omniscience just can't be explained, it just is

[Sengoku]

^ myths are for people to use their imagination on. I think I told this to some other guy who is pro-kitsune.

you DON'T know the limits of what Odin can do or not do.

[Limit_Tester]

Omniscience can be explained. Its by having infinite knowledge or knowledge of everything in the universe.

Its still not going to help Kyuubi. He just doesn't have the tools necessary to beat Fenrir.

[Darklyre]

Omniscience does not mean you have or will gain omnipotence. I could memorize everything there is about cars, but I wouldn't be able to make a gasoline engine run on diesel.

[Sengoku]

Loki is such a lucky father XD

produces some of the 'finest' children in Norse mythology.

1.) Fenrir 2.) Jörmungandr and 3.) Hel, queen of hell.