Zerg (StarCraft) vs The Flood (Halo)

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

This is something that has been bothering me for some time.

Discuss.

[Dai Dreamer]

The Zerg would own the Flood. I don't see the Flood being able to handle lurkers or Zerg air units. The Flood also likes close quarter combat which is really a bad idea against the Zerg for them.

[Wesley]

The Zerg are probably immune to the Flood since they likely lack the complex nervous system required for take over. The Flood are far more dangerous though, with the Zerg at best being able to field warriors in the millions to tens of millions, while the Flood capacity for assimialation is virtually endless.

They posed a galatic wide threat, while the Zerg are more localized, though still very dangerous and unrelenting. If they had succeeded in assimilating the Protoss, the Zerg may have become a much more immediate threat to the galaxy at large though.

If you seeded a Terran world with baby Flood, the Zerg would be hardpressed to take it from them I think, but Flood probably couldn't secure a Zerg world in exchange.

[EXhack]

The Zerg, are a more stable type of assimilator. They can capture and mutate any given being, and bolster it's strengths while removing weaknesses (except for sucide bombing infested terrans). They did create the hydralisks from caterpilars...

...But the Flood currupt and destroy life, turning the host into a useless walking (and jumping) zombie or flesh sac. Time isn't on their side.

[Kai]

Why do you think they're called the Flood? Some of you may not have read any of the Halo books, but the Flood can't be stopped. They're trillions and trillions of swarms everywhere and they're impossible to eradicate.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

I'm not personally sure who would have the advantage.

The Zerg have been known to infest Terran technology, but have had limited use of it.

But the Flood have been able to use advanced technology to their advantage.

[ydraliskos]

Why do you think they're called the Flood? Some of you may not have read any of the Halo books, but the Flood can't be stopped. They're trillions and trillions of swarms everywhere and they're impossible to eradicate.


People underestimate the Zerg just because they have seen from their POV during both starcraft and broodwar events.

Yes, Kerrigan was cornered, but she had just a small part of a brood with her, and she still won.

The Zerg as a whole were in war every single moment of their existance with the protoss and later the terran, none of which were a pushover. They were prevented, imho, from being a tyranid level thread because of that. They didn't just wtfpwn everything and anything alone, for a gazillion years and grow strong, they were held back at every step.

And that's why Starcraft got so many bonus points for plot, if you think about it. Because its bad guys weren't stupidly fucking overpowered, but actually on the same level as the others. Remember the end of Broodwars? They almost lost right there.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Easily Zerg. There are lots of Flood but there's at least 10 times more Zerg

Does the Flood have anything that can deal with Guardians and Ultralisks?

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

People underestimate the Zerg just because they have seen from their POV during both starcraft and broodwar events.

Yes, Kerrigan was cornered, but she had just a small part of a brood with her, and she still won.

The Zerg as a whole were in war every single moment of their existance with the protoss and later the terran, none of which were a pushover. They were prevented, imho, from being a tyranid level thread because of that. They didn't just wtfpwn everything and anything alone, for a gazillion years and grow strong, they were held back at every step.

And that's why Starcraft got so many bonus points for plot, if you think about it. Because its bad guys weren't stupidly fucking overpowered, but actually on the same level as the others. Remember the end of Broodwars? They almost lost right there.

Which is why I wanted to pit the two against eachother. Both seem to be an unstoppable swarm, and eventually win all conficts they engage in, due to their sheer numbers and relentless onslaughts. The Flood are able to utilize technology from their hosts, but the Zerg have more dangerous physical forms.

[EXhack]

^ And they can evolve their hosts... did I metion the hydralisks. Shit happens when you're a herbivorous caterpillar creature that the ultimate evil has taken interest in.

[Orion]

^^lol...does the flood have good air defense cause zerg has quite a few heavy hitters in the air,not to mention suicide bomber terrans on the ground lol.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

^I wonder what would happen if a flood were able to infect a Zerg? Or vice versa? Just one big infection orgy?

[Orion]

^^i suppose so lol.

[ydraliskos]

Which is why I wanted to pit the two against eachother. Both seem to be an unstoppable swarm, and eventually win all conficts they engage in, due to their sheer numbers and relentless onslaughts. The Flood are able to utilize technology from their hosts, but the Zerg have more dangerous physical forms.

That will be pretty hazy then.

As with all Blizzard settings, technology and magic(pshycic energies) are pretty much the same thing, interweaved, or means to the same effect.

In the end, most of the really high tech shit in Starcraft, if you think about it, were magic. Psychic energies and stuff. And the Zerg were as developed in that aspect as every other race. They achieved the same ends.

Zealot blades? Psychic. They used amplifiers, but in the end, it was magic.

Archons? Let's not even go there.

Stargates? Gateways? The whole warp thing?

Carriers, with the pilot in a podium in a huge hall alone ?

Overlords? Overmind? Organically initiating warp and faster than light speeds?

Ghosts becoming invisible? That was no cloaking device. Psychic. They had amplifiers, but the ability was psychic. Same with their lockdown shells.


Organic is not the opposite of technology in the Starcraft settings.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

^I guess then that the battle could hinge on which universe they were located. Zerg probably wouldn't make much use of UNSC technology compared to Terran, and God forbid, Protoss tech.

But, now that I think of it, the Zerg are terribly advanced compared to the Flood, but I wouldn't count either out, as the Flood are aptly named.

[omg laser pew pew!]

The numbers people....the numbers!

[Wesley]

The ability for the Zerg to grow and expand in a directed fashion is limited to the Overmind and it's Cerebrates. The Overmind itself could only manage so many Zerg on it's own, and thus created the Cerebrates, who then created the Queens and the Overlords to help them direct the day to day activities of the swarm.

The Flood on the other hand doesn't get as thorough a debriefing as the Zerg do. We know they change the atmosphere to better suit themselves and to promote infection among hosts. They can only infect complex organizisms that have central nervous systems. They're dependent upon taking hosts to create warriors and possibly workers.

However, as far as we know there is no guiding intelligence behind the Flood. Gravemind might be such an entity, but we do not know what it's purpose is for a certainty. That being the case it can be assumed that the Flood is random, but very quick to spread. Just one baby flood is enough to start a massive outbreak.

The Zerg are limited by the Overmind and the number of cerebrates. The Flood are limited by the number of warm bodies they can infect. If the Zerg can be infected by Flood, any losses taking by infection would be quickly replaced, while every Zerg taken would add to the forces of the Flood.

It'd probably be a game of maximising and minimizing casulaities and losses if that were the case.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

The ability for the Zerg to grow and expand in a directed fashion is limited to the Overmind and it's Cerebrates. The Overmind itself could only manage so many Zerg on it's own, and thus created the Cerebrates, who then created the Queens and the Overlords to help them direct the day to day activities of the swarm.

The Flood on the other hand doesn't get as thorough a debriefing as the Zerg do. We know they change the atmosphere to better suit themselves and to promote infection among hosts. They can only infect complex organizisms that have central nervous systems. They're dependent upon taking hosts to create warriors and possibly workers.

However, as far as we know there is no guiding intelligence behind the Flood. Gravemind might be such an entity, but we do not know what it's purpose is for a certainty. That being the case it can be assumed that the Flood is random, but very quick to spread. Just one baby flood is enough to start a massive outbreak.

The Zerg are limited by the Overmind and the number of cerebrates. The Flood are limited by the number of warm bodies they can infect. If the Zerg can be infected by Flood, any losses taking by infection would be quickly replaced, while every Zerg taken would add to the forces of the Flood.

It'd probably be a game of maximising and minimizing casulaities and losses if that were the case.

But what resources would be available for both sides? (IE Human/Alien Fodder) The Flood can take an advantage by taking over their hosts and using whatever tech. presented. The Zerg can do that, to a somewhat limited degree, (At least from what we've been shown), so I'm not sure which universe to place them in, or on a neutral ground.

Also, with head on engagements, the Zerg have incredible advantages in unit diversity and movement. I doubt Infection forms are going to have much effect on an Ultralisk. Also the Zerg have a lot of airborne units, which gives them an advantage over the Flood, which have no way to reach those levels without some sort of host technology.

[omg laser pew pew!]

I ask again

What does the Flood have that can take out missle tanking, Siege tank shredding Ultralisks?

This is a honest question BTW

[ydraliskos]

Well it's more a matter of getting control of eachother rather than fighting, so they won't really have to physically kill one, or matter if they did.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Well it's more a matter of getting control of eachother rather than fighting, so they won't really have to physically kill one, or matter if they did.

Honestly nothing besides numbers. Also, if infection forms could infest smaller Zerg, Zerglings, Hydralisks, Defilers etc, they could also accumulate a lot of more powerful units quickly. If they can't, the flood are at a huge dissadvantage. The Flood would have to be able to infect, otherwise billions of balloon sized pockets of air inside a membrane won't do jack squat to Zerg

But, what about infections of say, Cerebrate or an overmind? What Kind of affect would that have, if at all possible?

[Orion]

^^if they infected and took over the overmind then they win lol.

[Kai]

Even the covenant were afraid of the flood. They know the flood is impossible to stop. The covenant have battlships, cruisers, whole armadas of elites and hunters, taking over planets in the galaxy but even they are afraid of the flood.

The flood swarms the entire universe in a neverending cycle of reproduction.

[Wesley]

When you consider that the flood don't rely on bases for reproduction, just whatever sentinent is running around basically, things like air power become little more then support. I believe the Gravemind had stated that no infestation had ever been contained indefinently. Once the Flood get a foothold, it's virtually impossible to eradicate them as they can lay dormant for thousands of years in the least acessible and most unlikely places.

Now, I think the Zerg are relatively small in number. Probably less then 20 million of them in the whole galaxy. The reason they're a potent military force is because every single one of them is evolved for maximum leathality, they move and attack en masse, and that they are coordinated by the likes of Yellow and Boxer back when he wasn't a tank whore.

If you gave the Flood Earth and then told the Zerg to attack them I don't there would be much the Flood could do to stop the initial attacks, but I don't think the Zerg would make much progress once they started expanding from their hive clusters.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

When you consider that the flood don't rely on bases for reproduction, just whatever sentinent is running around basically, things like air power become little more then support. I believe the Gravemind had stated that no infestation had ever been contained indefinently. Once the Flood get a foothold, it's virtually impossible to eradicate them as they can lay dormant for thousands of years in the least acessible and most unlikely places.

Now, I think the Zerg are relatively small in number. Probably less then 20 million of them in the whole galaxy. The reason they're a potent military force is because every single one of them is evolved for maximum leathality, they move and attack en masse, and that they are coordinated by the likes of Yellow and Boxer back when he wasn't a tank whore.

If you gave the Flood Earth and then told the Zerg to attack them I don't there would be much the Flood could do to stop the initial attacks, but I don't think the Zerg would make much progress once they started expanding from their hive clusters.


So basically an effective stalemate? That's about as far as I've got so far, or at least inconclusive. I don't think the Zerg are that (Revatively, mind you) low in number, but I do think the flood are more numerous.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Less than 20 million? That's rubbish

They have numbers to take over many many worlds and they're equal to the population of Australia?

I sure as heck doubt the Flood could do to Aiur what the Zerg did

[Kai]

Less than 20 million? That's rubbish

They have numbers to take over many many worlds and they're equal to the population of Australia?

Doesn't matter; the Zerg don't even have 10% as much as the population the Flood do.
If all the flood in the entire universe(which include zombies, plants, humanoid life forms, etc.) spread out and swarm all the planets with Zerg hives, the planet will become a dark-yellowish color in a matter of seconds.

It's quantity over quality that wins this battle.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Less than 20 million? That's rubbish

They have numbers to take over many many worlds and they're equal to the population of Australia?

I sure as heck doubt the Flood could do to Aiur what the Zerg did

Yeah, I thought that was kind of funny too.

The flood need a weaker species so they can work their way up. I doubt infection forms could hurt Protoss very much, but Terran would be raped most definately.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Doesn't matter; the Zerg don't even have 10% as much as the population the Flood do.
If all the flood in the entire universe(which include zombies, plants, humanoid life forms, etc.) spread out and swarm all the planets with Zerg hives, the planet will become a dark-yellowish color in a matter of seconds.

It's quantity over quality that wins this battle.

So the Flood are suddenyl controlling universes? Was that in Halo 2?

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Doesn't matter; the Zerg don't even have 10% as much as the population the Flood do.
If all the flood in the entire universe(which include zombies, plants, humanoid life forms, etc.) spread out and swarm all the planets with Zerg hives, the planet will become a dark-yellowish color in a matter of seconds.

It's quantity over quality that wins this battle.

The Flood technically have one form before becoming active, and that is the infection form. No zombies and.... um, "plants" until the infection forms swarm an enemy and do their thing. And as weak as they sound, the infection forms still had to take on Elites to infect them, as well as Marines, so they obviosly can in great numbers.

[Kai]

So the Flood are suddenly controlling universes?
Nope.

Was that in Halo 2?
You haven't beaten the game? Well the answer is no.

[omg laser pew pew!]

I've complete Halo 1 but only done one or two multiplayer in Halo 2. Spoil me if you want

I just didn't know that the Flood are even close to zerg numbers

[Wesley]

They leap frogged from world to world, setting up a homeworld from which they could launch scouts to find new species that were worth adopting into the swarm while wiping out any that proved useless, like humanity.

Char is just the latest in such conquests.

Zerg are limited by the number of ceberates the Overmind can control.

You have to understand how many 20 million really represents. When you consider that each Zerg is entirely self sufficient, not requiring any food, medical attention, or rest, while also being designed for maximum leathiality, you have what amounts to the perfect genocide machine.

As a comparison, the largest standing military in the world is China's at 3.5 million. Although they can field a much larger force if the need arised, you have to consider that many of those 3.5 aren't combatants. Many are used for logistics, maintaining vehicles, communications, mainitaining supplies, construction. And each Chinese soldier has daily requirements of food, water, and rest to maintain fighting trim.

Zerg are merciless, do not distinquish from civilian and combatant, are utterly relentless, and do not stop for anything.

You wouldn't need hundreds of millions Zerg to take control of a world.

It's a shame Kerrigan took over the Swarm though. It'll never be like it was under the Overmind, with the great mission, the numbers of broods...

[omg laser pew pew!]

No but you need at leat hundreds of millions to hold all their worlds
You forget that in Brood War that the Zerg were on it's way to Earth? 20 million wouldn't cut it against Earth on it's turf. And I sure has heck doubt 20 million would even scratch Aiur

[Kai]

I just didn't know that the Flood are even close to zerg numbers

They're in the far trilllions.

[Orion]

^^seriously the protoss were serious business they had to have had a shit ton of zergs to pull off aiur.

[Wesley]

No but you need at leat hundreds of millions to hold each world

You forget that in Brood War that the Zerg were on it's way to Earth? 20 million wouldn't cut it against Earth on it's turf. And I sure has heck doubt 20 million would even scratch Aiur

Not necessarily. When you consider that each Zerg is more or less expendable and that losses can be recouped in a matter of hours, if not within minutes, and that all 20 million of them can be fighting simualtenously, without end...

Just imagine the first 20 million acting to blunt the initial attack, and then the next generation further serving to slow it down, then the next, and the next after that, until the enemy has finally exhausted itself. Where upon the Zerg start destroying the enemy.

[Orion]

^^yeah the zerg are kinda unrelenting and replace their soldiers in a very short time while the people they fight usually have a set numbers of how many soldiers they can actually have.

[ydraliskos]

Can we stop pulling numbers out of our asses please? Where the fuck did that 20 million even come from?

We just don't know how many they are.

[Wesley]

Yeah, the Protoss lost like 60% percent of their population when the Zerg invaded Auir. And the Protoss were never a really prolifick people to begin with mind you. I can't really say things are looking good for them at the moment myself. Even if they controlled one eighth of the galaxy at the height of their power, without a homeworld to call their own, and enemies that can attack them without end...

It's just a matter of time before they either have to go into hiding or die out...

Oh, that's from the Starcraft manual. I'm actually being fairly generous since the largest brood only listed a few million to it's credit.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Not necessarily. When you consider that each Zerg is more or less expendable and that losses can be recouped in a matter of hours, if not within minutes, and that all 20 million of them can be fighting simualtenously, without end...

Just imagine the first 20 million acting to blunt the initial attack, and then the next generation further serving to slow it down, then the next, and the next after that, until the enemy has finally exhausted itself. Where upon the Zerg start destroying the enemy.

You just contradicted yourself. You're saying that once they reach 20 million, they stop breeding or something

[ydraliskos]

Seriously? what the hell... that's abnormally low

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

But don't the numbers of the Flood, and their subsequent power, hinge on whether or not the Flood can infect and control a non sentient being? The Zerg aren't sentient, only the Cerebrates, The Overmind and of course Kerrigan, are really sentient, so can the Flood infect them?

Of course their is little evidence to suggest such a case, but for this battle it might be a necessity.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Anyway, are we using the current Zerg army led by Kerrigan or before with the Overmind?

Are the hybrids included as well?

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Anyway, are we using the current Zerg army led by Kerrigan or before with the Overmind?

Are the hybrids included as well?

I don't know, would the Protoss/Zerg Hybrids be too powerful? I don't know as it didn't state. I'm not sure, Kerrigan often had a hard time keeping the Zerg under her control, and being human, had emotions the Overmind did not, so It's up in the air right now.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Well I don't think they should be used if only because they're not part of the Swarm as such. I only bought them up because they're half zerg as well and personally I think they are too powerful

I mean they even scared Zeratul

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Well I don't think they should be used if only because they're not part of the Swarm as such. I only bought them up because they're half zerg as well and personally I think they are too powerful

I mean they even scared Zeratul

Well, Look what the overmind did with Kerrigan, who was a Ghost. Sure, she had some decent powers, but think of what they could do with, say, a Templar, both Dark and High, or heaven forbid, Either of either of the Archons. They might be too much for The Flood.

Oh, what about heros? At least in the SC universe?

[Wesley]

You just contradicted yourself. You're saying that once they reach 20 million, they stop breeding or something

Yes, that is what I'm saying. There is a limit to how many Zerg there can be because the Cerebrates and the Overmind could only control so many before they lost control.

That's why I think the Overmind wanted the Protoss. So they could break that control cap and truly expand.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Yes, that is what I'm saying. There is a limit to how many Zerg there can be because the Cerebrates and the Overmind could only control so many before they lost control.

That's why I think the Overmind wanted the Protoss. So they could break that control cap and truly expand.

He has a point.

I think that's why the Zerg wanted to Xel'Naga, in order to expand the Overminds reach, which was limited, I assume. However, I'm not sure what would happen if they were given that ability...

[Khamzul]

I feel that I should not comment here, since I haven't read any of the books Starcraft or Halo (yet). But I think I can offer some input.

I really don't remember much of the Flood, but from what I do remember I would place Zerg as the winner here. Their numbers surely are way above 20 million. They have conqured alot of worlds, and every time they have done so assimilated the genetics of the strongest races into itself.

When the Terran attacked Char (the homeworld of the overmind) the casualties where measured atleast (the video stops the killcount around):

1785319753.

Check this video: Scinemastics of Starcraft on Google video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3881489377667296448&q=Starcraft+cinematics&hl=en)
Killcount around 28:28 - example on an attack around 15:01.

Here is some great info on the Zerg history by the way:
blizzplanet.com - Zerg (http://www.blizzplanet.com/content/397/)

[Wesley]

I feel that I should not comment here, since I haven't read any of the books Starcraft or Halo (yet). But I think I can offer some input.

I really don't remember much of the Flood, but from what I do remember I would place Zerg as the winner here. Their numbers surely are way above 20 million. They have conqured alot of worlds, and every time they have done so assimilated the genetics of the strongest races into itself.

When the Terran attacked Char (the homeworld of the overmind) the casualties where measured atleast (the video stops the killcount around):

1785319753.

Check this video: Scinemastics of Starcraft on Google video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3881489377667296448&q=Starcraft+cinematics&hl=en)
Killcount around 28:28 - example on an attack around 15:01.

Here is some great info on the Zerg history by the way:
blizzplanet.com - Zerg (http://www.blizzplanet.com/content/397/)

Propaganda for one thing, and like I said Zerg spawn extremely quickly. There may well have been that many Zerg killed, but only a few million fighting at any given moment. It's not like with humans who have to wait at least a decade or so after birth before they can start fighting.

[ydraliskos]

Given it some thought.

No way in hell they were 20million.They controlled Mars Sara and Chau Sara completely, simultaneously. 20 million cannot do that, I don't care what hte manual says.

[Khamzul]

Propaganda for one thing, and like I said Zerg spawn extremely quickly. There may well have been that many Zerg killed, but only a few million fighting at any given moment. It's not like with humans who have to wait at least a decade or so after birth before they can start fighting.
You still think they are less than 20 million?

They may have a good respawn rate, but that does not account for that kind of number in a span of days. And that was not even all the Zerg (Karrigan escaped ect). And remember that this was just on one planet (although defending the overmind but still), they probably had outlaying spawning points and armies throughout the galaxy aswell.

[~Shin~]

Wasn't the only way to stop the flood is by destroying every other being that the flood can breed on?

[Kai]

Wasn't the only way to stop the flood is by destroying every other being that the flood can breed on?


Yeah,

They can't be stopped by any other means. It's as simple as that.

The Halo rings are a defensive mechanism built by the Prophets in fear of the flood, and once activated will destroy every living organism in the-well I don't remember how far they reach, but enough to spread out to everyone/everything which basically cuts off the Flood's food supply.

[~Shin~]

^yeah, that's what i thought, and halo destroys every being in the galaxy

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

The Same thing has been said about the Zerg as well. So two unstoppable forces colide, who wins?

[Kai]

The Same thing has been said about the Zerg as well. So two unstoppable forces colide, who wins?

But the zerg is "unstoppable", people are talking figuratively.

The Flood are unstoppable in an actual literal sense.

The only way they can be stopped is to activate all the halo rings across the universe.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Yes, but I'll ask again, wouldn't the floods fighing capabilities depend on whether they can capture adn control Zerg? The Zerg arent' sentient in the strict sense, just the Cerebrates and the Overmind, so would flood be able to infest Zerg spawn?

[~Shin~]

As long as the zerg are living beings then the flood can take over them

[Kai]

Yes, but I'll ask again, wouldn't the floods fighing capabilities depend on whether they can capture adn control Zerg? The Zerg arent' sentient in the strict sense, just the Cerebrates and the Overmind, so would flood be able to infest Zerg spawn?

I have a question as it's been like 5 years since I've played Starcraft.

Can the Zerg distinct others from their own species if there's someone/thing that looks exactly like them?

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Well, don' they haev to be of a certain mass, and be penetrable? I don't ever remember any other types of Flood combat forms other than Covenant Elites and Marines. And I don't know how infection forms would attack some of the Zerg, ei burrowed or flyers.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

I have a question as it's been like 5 years since I've played Starcraft.

Can the Zerg distinct others from their own species if there's someone/thing that looks exactly like them?

Yes, as they are all linked to the Hive Mind, so the Overmind would be able to tell the Zerg to kill anything it couldn't control.

[RaTBoYs]

wut are you guys talking about?? zergs can only have 200 people including drones.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

^Nice.

Listen, we're not talking about the actual game, StarCraft, and it's mechanics, which would be silly and pointless.

[Wesley]

You still think they are less than 20 million?

They may have a good respawn rate, but that does not account for that kind of number in a span of days. And that was not even all the Zerg (Karrigan escaped ect). And remember that this was just on one planet (although defending the overmind but still), they probably had outlaying spawning points and armies throughout the galaxy aswell.

It's also propaganda. The number you give is in the hundreds of billions, which is far too many. The UED would find it more difficult to convince it's backers of the threat if they were to reveal the small number of militant Zerg out there.

I suppose there could be many millions more around the galaxy though. Feral Zerg if you will. Rouge Hives. Waiting for something to bring them to heel.

But it is a fact that the cebrates and the Overmind could only manage so many before things started to get out of hand.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

It's also propaganda. The number you give is in the hundreds of billions, which is far too many. The UED would find it more difficult to convince it's backers of the threat if they were to reveal the small number of militant Zerg out there.

I suppose there could be many millions more around the galaxy though. Feral Zerg if you will. Rouge Hives. Waiting for something to bring them to heel.

But it is a fact that the cebrates and the Overmind could only manage so many before things started to get out of hand.

Which is why, I assume, control or destruction of the Xel'Naga temple was pertinent to their generic plans for galactic domination. And yes, I doubt the UED could have had more support had they given a much more blazenly bad report on numbers.

[omg laser pew pew!]

But the zerg is "unstoppable", people are talking figuratively.

The Flood are unstoppable in an actual literal sense.

The only way they can be stopped is to activate all the halo rings across the universe.

No. It. Is. Not

If it was in the literal sense then they cannot be stopped at all. The mere fact the Halos can destroy them proves they are not unstoppable

Again I bring this up, Does the Flood have anything that can take down Ultralisks? Guardians? Mutalisks?

[Kai]

No. It. Is. Not

If it was in the literal sense then they cannot be stopped at all. The mere fact the Halos can destroy them proves they are not unstoppable[/b]

Did you read the books or even play the game? Even the halo Rings don't destroy the Flood.

The Halo rings would destroy all other forms of life in the universe, thus cutting off the Flood's food supply. That's the only way they can be destroyed. To starve them to death.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Did you read the books or even play the game? Even the halo Rings don't destroy the Flood.

The Halo rings would destroy all other forms of life in the universe, thus cutting off the Flood's food supply. That's the only way they can be destroyed. To starve them to death.

If they were unstoppable then the Halos wouldn't stop them

But they could

Anyway, the Humans in Halo would get owned in 2 days by the Terrans in Starcraft

[Kai]

If they were unstoppable then the Halos wouldn't stop them

But they could

What are you talking about? There is no way to stop the Flood except make them starve, which is to kill every living being in the universe. Thus, the Halo rings were created as an extreme emergency defensive mechanism.

And I actually might change my answer to being a tie, only if you can prove to me that the Flood can't infect the Zerg.

If the flood can't infect the Zerg or eat them, I don't see why they would have any reason to attack them.

[omg laser pew pew!]

What are you talking about? There is no way to stop the Flood except make them starve, which is to kill every living being in the universe. Thus, the Halo rings were created as an extreme emergency defensive mechanism.

Just because the Flood couldn't be stopped with crappy Human and Covenant, doesn't mean far stronger and larger forces couldn't

And I actually might change my answer to being a tie, only if you can prove to me that the Flood can't infect the Zerg.

Prove the Zerg can't infect back

If the flood can't infect the Zerg or eat them, I don't see why they would have any reason to attack them.

This is the Battledome. We ignore that stuff

[The Space Cowboy]

The Zerg win this. They have the upper hand in terms of Command & Control. Furthermore, they don't need starships to cross interstellar distances. So their combat capacity is MASSIVE.

But what other things are there about the Zerg that make them a more dangerous opponent than the Flood?

The Zerg have a single, driving intelligence, the Overmind that can psionically direct the entire Zerg race. True, there are the sub-controllers(Cerebrates) but the Overmind runs the show. This Overmind is capable of genetically reengineering just about anything--even humans to suit its needs.

Note Kerrigan and Duran.

The major Flood intelligences, don't seem to be able to do anything on the level of the Zerg over-intellects. They copy because the Flood needs to, and can. The Zerg...assimilate genomes because they want to.

I suspect that the Overmind would actually assimilate the base Flood genome at the very first chance it got. Being linked to the rest of the species, it could devise and implement changes to immunize the Zerg species against the general method of infestation used by the Flood.

In terms of normal unit damage, even Zerglings can slice clean through powered armor and take many hits from Gauss rifles, without stopping. Hydralisks are capable of taking out aircraft with their spines. Broodlings can eat through a TANK very quickly.

The Zerg can choose the battlefield, get very good to perfect situational awareness, and have biological weaponry on a whole nother level. I say the Zerg win.

[Kai]

Just because the Flood couldn't be stopped with crappy Human and Covenant, doesn't mean far stronger and larger forces couldn't

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_%28megastructure%29

3rd paragraph.



Prove the Zerg can't infect back
Umm...with what? :huh

This is the Battledome. We ignore that stuff
Alright... then the Flood would overswarm the Zerg. There are billions of trillions of trillions of trillions of Flood. I already told you that the Flood are impossible to kill because unlike you, I read the Halo book, The Flood and I've beaten Halos 1 and 2.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Ouch.

I did think that the Zergs overall intelligence compared to the Flood would come into play, but what of Gravemind? He (it?) seems to be able to interact with advanced technology, and use it to hisadvatge, ie, being able to teleport the Arbiter and MC to different places on Halo by use of the Halo's teleportation grid.

The Zerg have the ability to infect and control enemies, but more under the control of the Overmind rather than the individual unit, or the Flood Infection Form.

[Kai]

Even the halo rings, designed to wipe out all sentient life in the galaxy, isn't enough to kill the Flood. How do you expect the Zerg to do the more?

There's way too much Flood. More Flood than I've seen in any race in any game ever.

[omg laser pew pew!]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_%28megastructure%29

3rd paragraph.

This paragraph?


The Halo installations were built by the Forerunner, a fictional civilization within the series. They were built to contain and study the Flood, a parasitic alien race. In the event the Flood are released, it is the responsibility of the Monitor of that Halo to activate the ring's last resort - a superweapon capable of destroying all sentient life in the galaxy. This would effectively starve the Flood into defeat. The only demonstrated method of activation is through the use of a "Reclaimer", which is mentioned in greater detail below. Installation 04's "maximum effective" range, according to the Monitor, is 25,000 light years. The activation of one ring's superweapon causes the other six Halo installations to activate and fire as well, extending the range to the entire Milky Way galaxy, or more precisely, 3 galactic radii. The actual method of destruction has never been stated, but it has been established that it would only destroy sentient life large enough to sustain the Flood. Remarks made by Installation 04's Monitor, the artificial intelligence construct 343 Guilty Spark, indicate that the Installations' "research facilities are most-impressive".


Umm...with what? :huh

Exactly. How can I prove that the Zerg can't be infected?

Alright... then the Flood would overswarm the Zerg. There are billions of trillions of trillions of trillions of Flood. I already told you that the Flood are impossible to kill because unlike you, I read the Halo book, The Flood and I've beaten Halos 1 and 2.

And are they largely all weak fry?

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

We don't know if the Flood could infect the Zerg, as they aren't sentient in and of themselves, but for the sake of argument, we might have to assume they can, unless someone can bring up convincing arguments one way or the other.

And, someone said earlier, the UNSC would be raped by the Terrans? Dear God, they would.

[Kai]

This paragraph?

Yes, that paragraph.

a superweapon capable of destroying all sentient life in the galaxy. This would effectively starve the Flood into defeat.





Exactly. How can I prove that the Zerg can't be infected?
Well, I'll research into if the Flood can infect the Zerg or not later.



And are they largely all weak fry?
Mostly all of them are weak fry and it will probably take like 5 of them to kill one zergling(human and covenant forms) but there are some strong and intelligent flood like Brain Flood and the Gravemind. Gravemind doesn't control the Flood- even they are beyond his own control. He's just a compilation of all of the flood's thoughts.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Yes, that paragraph.

a superweapon capable of destroying all sentient life in the galaxy. This would effectively starve the Flood into defeat.


So the Flood command the Halos now?

Well, I'll research into if the Flood can infect the Zerg or not later.

You do that :nod

Mostly all of them are weak fry and it will probably take like 5 of them to kill one zergling(human and covenant forms) but there are some strong and intelligent flood like Brain Flood and the Gravemind. Gravemind doesn't control the Flood- even they are beyond his own control. He's just a compilation of all of the flood's thoughts.

Zerglings can tear through the armour of marines. A terran Marine is easily packing more armour and firepower than a Halo Marine

If Halo 2 didn't drastically change the Flood from Halo 1 then a zergling could probably take at least 10 of them.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

What about carrier forms? From what I can tell on the games, they pack as much as any grenade, which would be sufficient to kill a Zergling, or several. And combat forms have superhuman strength, and could probably go toe to toe with a Hydralish, or at least 2 on 1.

[Kai]

So the Flood command the Halos now?
In a way, yes. It depends on their actions. Of course they don't want to die from starvation so if they start swarming everyone the Prophets of truth and regret will activate the halo rings.

However, now you can't deny the fact that the Halo rings don't have enough force to kill the flood.:)


You do that :nod
Do Zerg have calcium?

Zerglings can tear through the armour of marines. A terran Marine is easily packing more armour and firepower than a Halo Marine
Any contact that the Flood make with armor or energy shields will make them make a "pop" sound. Eventually, they will deplete the shields and the enemy will be open for a pure unstoppable swarm. In the case of the Zerg hive, it will probably take millions of flood to break through, but they'll do it.

If Halo 2 didn't drastically change the Flood from Halo 1 then a zergling could probably take at least 10 of them.
Then by your logic, the Flood would still win.

[Kai]

What about carrier forms? From what I can tell on the games, they pack as much as any grenade, which would be sufficient to kill a Zergling, or several. And combat forms have superhuman strength, and could probably go toe to toe with a Hydralish, or at least 2 on 1.

And with every Carrier form that explodes, like 25 infection forms leak out from it and attack.

Combat forms can jump at extroardinary heights and just one whack would easily kill a marine.

[omg laser pew pew!]

In a way, yes. It depends on their actions. Of course they don't want to die from starvation so if they start swarming everyone the Prophets of truth and regret will activate the halo rings.

However, now you can't deny the fact that the Halo rings don't have enough force to kill the flood.:)

I dunno actually. Sure they can. Sure they can't

Meh

Do Zerg have calcium?

Of course they do

They even use Colgate

Any contact that the Flood make with armor or energy shields will make them make a "pop" sound. Eventually, they will deplete the shields and the enemy will be open for a pure unstoppable swarm. In the case of the Zerg hive, it will probably take millions of flood to break through, but they'll do it.

Fair enough though do they have anti air stuff?

Then by your logic, the Flood would still win.

Do I need to mention that zerglings are the zergs weakest foot soldiers? A hydralisk could at least take twice the number and a Ultralisk.......

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Yes, but a Zerg Ultralisk can use its tusks to rip through buildings, machines and hordes of combat forms. A mammoth sized bladed bad ass isn't going down with a huge onslaught of combat forms, and I don't think an infection form would be able to much with it.

I'm not exactly certain of Zerg metablolism or chemical make up. I need to look it up >.>

Let's just say, no UNSC marine has any chance agains either the Flood or the Zerg.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Now something that gets me is are hydralisks ranged or melee units? Since the game and videos show very different things

Anyway Zerg has Hunter Killers! The second coolest hero in all of SC!

[Kai]

Of course they do

They even use Colgate
Well if they don't, then the Flood can't infect the Zerg.



Fair enough though do they have anti air stuff?
Don't think so, although their combat forms jump at unbelievable heights from the ground to the top of a skyscraper and they use a wide array of weapons like snipers, rockets, pistols, so they could probably shoot down your mutalisks or guardians.

Do I need to mention that zerglings are the zergs weakest foot soldiers? A hydralisk could at least take twice the number and a Ultralisk.......
Talk about pulling numbers from out of my @$$, but I would think an ultralisk could probably take on 1,000 flood if not more. Still, the numbers of flood are too high.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Yeah, the Ultralisk thing would be completely subjective, but there's no real way to compare it, is there?

However, are we assuming the Flood have infested soldiers in order to obtain these weapons and technology? Or are we going on infestations of Zerg alone?

[omg laser pew pew!]

Well if they don't, then the Flood can't infect the Zerg.

I can't make any comment on that since I have zilch knowledge of a zerg's metabolism

Don't think so, although their combat forms jump at unbelievable heights from the ground to the top of a skyscraper and they use a wide array of weapons like snipers, rockets, pistols, so they could probably shoot down your mutalisks or guardians.

Rockets and maybe snipers I can understand hurting a mutalisk but it ain't that easy. Mutalisks can take down battlecruisers (as evidence in a video clip in SC)

Talk about pulling numbers from out of my @$$, but I would think an ultralisk could probably take on 1,000 flood if not more. Still, the numbers of flood are too high.

I didn't make any assumption that is totally unbelievable. I do think a zergling could take down maybe 10 of the weaker flood without too much problem. I mean they can take multiple hits from a marine's gauss rifle. That's got to count for something

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Also, depending on the intelligence of the Flood, couldn't they learn to take out the oh-so-necessary Overloards? I'm not sure how they would work outside of the Game world, instead of acting as "Farms", I think they have something to do with spreading the Overminds reach of influence, but that's just me a pulling stuff out of my ass.

It woould take a seriuos amount of small arms fire to kill Mutalisks, as shown from the game and from movies. However, if the flood had the use of vehicles they captured, that could obviously change things.

[Kai]

Also, depending on the intelligence of the Flood, couldn't they learn to take out the oh-so-necessary Overloards? I'm not sure how they would work outside of the Game world, instead of acting as "Farms", I think they have something to do with spreading the Overminds reach of influence, but that's just me a pulling stuff out of my ass.

Outside of the game, can Overlords attack? If not, there could be swarms of combat forms jumping on overlords and whacking and shooting them to death. That would eliminate their invisibility scan[from what I picked up from the game].

It woould take a seriuos amount of small arms fire to kill Mutalisks, as shown from the game and from movies. However, if the flood had the use of vehicles they captured, that could obviously change things.
There should be plenty of combat forms jumping waiting to catch a mutalisk. :)

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Overloards were basically essential units, which had no other purpose other than "Food" and detection (Able to see cloaked and burrowed units.). However, they were rarely at the battlefield forefront, unless there happens to be sneaky Ghosts, Dark Templars or Observers.

There are quite a few more air units than just Mutalisks; Guardians are long range "bombers" able to spew explosive acid over great distances, and Queens were able to do a multitude of unique abilities, like spawning broodlings.

[Kai]

Overloards were basically essential units, which had no other purpose other than "Food" and detection (Able to see cloaked and burrowed units.). However, they were rarely at the battlefield forefront, unless there happens to be sneaky Ghosts, Dark Templars or Observers.
So basically the flood can swarm a couple hundred overlords which would be pretty detrimental to a Zerg Hive.

There are quite a few more air units than just Mutalisks; Guardians are long range "bombers" able to spew explosive acid over great distances, and Queens were able to do a multitude of unique abilities, like spawning broodlings.

From what I remember, Queens had no actual aerial attacks right?

So the aerial threats would be the Mutalisks and Guardians.

I'm going to assume that the Flood can infect the Zerg because: In the Covenant, there is a unit called the Drone, and it's a kind of insectoid like the Zerg and seems to be quite similar to it. And the Flood can infect all the Covenant.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

So basically the flood can swarm a couple hundred overlords which would be pretty detrimental to a Zerg Hive.

Assuming they could by pass the thousands of Zerg relentless protecting them, sure.


From what I remember, Queens had no actual aerial attacks right?

So the aerial threats would be the Mutalisks and Guardians.

I'm going to assume that the Flood can infect the Zerg because: In the Covenant, there is a unit called the Drone, and it's a kind of insectoid like the Zerg and seems to be quite similar to it. And the Flood can infect all the Covenant.

Well, Queens have the ability to spawn brood, which is, in effect, shooting a fast growing parasite into a flood, which would, in seconds, grown until it burst the flood and spawned to two "Brood",. The queens are also able to do that over a distance.

[Kai]

Assuming they could by pass the thousands of Zerg relentless protecting them, sure.

In all seriousness, a planet would not be enough space to hold every single Flood there is. A planet would be taken over by the entire population of the Flood in seconds. The rest of the planets inhabited by the Zerg would be one helluva long battle with the worlds becoming one giant bloodpool.




Well, Queens have the ability to spawn brood, which is, in effect, shooting a fast growing parasite into a flood, which would, in seconds, grown until it burst the flood and spawned to two "Brood",. The queens are also able to do that over a distance.

And what do you say about the Flood infecting the Zerg?

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

For the sake of the argument, we probably should allow it. Unless you want to have the Halo Combat forms already in use, in which case we might want to rethink that. I don't think the Flood can infest a non-sentient lifeform, or at least what I gathered from playing the game and reading the books.

And yes, the Flood would outnumber the Zerg on a planet, however, the Zerg do have the upperhand at just about everything else. So, it depends on whether Quality < Quantity, or vice versa.

[Kai]

For the sake of the argument, we probably should allow it. Unless you want to have the Halo Combat forms already in use, in which case we might want to rethink that. I don't think the Flood can infest a non-sentient lifeform, or at least what I gathered from playing the game and reading the books.
I believe the Zerg are sentient, they have senses and the Overmind is conscious of everything.

And yes, the Flood would outnumber the Zerg on a planet, however, the Zerg do have the upperhand at just about everything else. So, it depends on whether Quality < Quantity, or vice versa.

Yeah, and there's other qualities to observe here too. Judging that the Flood aren't exactly the brightest light bulb on the ceiling, they won't go spread out to every single Zerg infested planet and perform strategies. They flood, infect, and kill.

Now, if they go after a planet and its inhabitants, the other Zerg colonies, during this time, have prep time. If they drastically think of a conjoined plan, I can imagine they can hold off the Flood for god knows how long.

A battle this massive is hard to decide, but that doesn't say that this debate won't stop.

This was a good battle and I had a good debate with you. *Reps

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

^Agreed, it was fun, and didn't degrade into a flame war between fanboys.

I love both series, so it's more a matter of curiosity for me, but honestly, it get's rather hard when the forces are very equally matched in power.

[RaTBoYs]

i give this to zergs due to the fact that they have air units. also they have defilers and ultralisks and lurkers. and infested terrans and they have alot of psionic abilities.

[omg laser pew pew!]

I think the main problem is that we can't give a accurate number of both species. While I now do agree that Flood greatly outnumber Zerg, how much plays a vital part

If it's anything less than 20x then Flood are screwed. If it's more then it'll probably be a good and long fight

[Kai]

I think the main problem is that we can't give a accurate number of both species. While I now do agree that Flood greatly outnumber Zerg, how much plays a vital part

If it's anything less than 20x then Flood are screwed. If it's more then it'll probably be a good and long fight

Well what's the total number of Zerg? We don't know.

What's the total number of Flood? In the trillions.

Eh, I still believe the flood would take this. They're numbers are mucch much too high for Zerg.

You should make a Zerg vs Covenant thread.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

A Zerg vs Covy thread? It would be interesting, but I'm having doubts already, as they raped the Protoss. So it may be a little less even than this battle.

[satanchrist]

Lets think the Zerg have to build breeding facilities. The Flood really don't have to do that. One flood takes over one zerg then it spreads. That simple.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

It's not really 'that simple'. The hav to be able to infest a host of sufficient mass, which many of the Zerg are not. Secondly, the Zerg contain extremely advanced biological makeups, that can be altered by the Overmind, making it very difficult to infest them at all.

[Kai]

It's not really 'that simple'. The hav to be able to infest a host of sufficient mass, which many of the Zerg are not. Secondly, the Zerg contain extremely advanced biological makeups, that can be altered by the Overmind, making it very difficult to infest them at all.

I'm pretty sure they just have to have biomass and calcium, which is why I asked if they had calcium or not.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Well, not all of them. Zerglings have about the same Biomass as Covenant Grunts, and no Flood seemed to control them. The Same with Broodlings and Drones.

Also, I'm not sure how the Infection forms would react in trying to controll something like an ultralisk.

[Wesley]

Flood need nervous systems to take on a host. THat's why hunters and the Sarge are immune. The Hunters being a complex organizism made up of thousands of individual creatures, while the Sarge's nerves are like poison to the Flood due to exposure to radiation.

The Zerg I imagine don't have very complex biology.

[Grrblt]

I've not played Halo except for a few deathmatch games (which I was prone to losing :() and I have a couple of questions.

Exactly why is the Flood unstoppable? What I gather from Wikipedia is that they are all lifeforms, and lifeforms can be killed. If a power existed to kill all Flood lifeforms at the same time, how would they survive?

What kind of weaponry do they possess? The Combat Form picture seems to be wielding something that looks like an Uzi, and you can be damned certain that an Uzi would not hinder a zergling at all who can resist several rounds of Gauss Gun (compare 1 (http://sg.geocities.com/robotoys_inc/Terran1.jpg) 2 (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/31/Flood_Human.jpg/250px-Flood_Human.jpg))


Also, the number of 20 million is a huge underestimation. The intro text to the Terran mission New Gettysburg mentions how only a few Psi Emitters lured billions of Zerg to Tarsonis. And that's just the forces they had in the Terran sector; they had been battling Protoss on many similar-sized fronts for many years.

[Kai]

http://halosm.bungie.org/story/flood.html
Shows there that the Flood are omni-parasitic, and can infect any being with minimal sentience or biomass.

The Flood are an unstoppable race, even the Prophets who are thousands of years old don't know how the Flood originated because the eons of which they have battled out have been so massive and long ago.

The Flood have been a growing force for thousands of years and as long as there's a living organism, I'm sure any Flood can infect and repopulate themselves substantially. You might not know how numerous the Flood really are. There are billions and billions of Flood, and they can use weapons to an amazing degree and are much smarter than I first thought they were.

The idea is that there are 7 Halo rings(one destroyed by Master Chief in Halo 1), that are supposed to wipe out all sentient life forms in the galaxy, which each Halo ring reaching out to approximately 25,000 lightyears. However, even the prophets admitted that the halos would not be able to stop the flood so the idea is to destroy all other life and starve the Flood to death.

this is so a new generation of life can be born and the Flood don't "flood" other universes as well/

[Kazuma the Shell Bullet]

Lets think the Zerg have to build breeding facilities. The Flood really don't have to do that. One flood takes over one zerg then it spreads. That simple.
And the Flood can only posess sentinents.

Besides, even if they could posess Zerg, the overmind would take over a Flood infection as soon as it can, once assimilated they'd become immune

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

I've not played Halo except for a few deathmatch games (which I was prone to losing :() and I have a couple of questions.

Exactly why is the Flood unstoppable? What I gather from Wikipedia is that they are all lifeforms, and lifeforms can be killed. If a power existed to kill all Flood lifeforms at the same time, how would they survive?

What kind of weaponry do they possess? The Combat Form picture seems to be wielding something that looks like an Uzi, and you can be damned certain that an Uzi would not hinder a zergling at all who can resist several rounds of Gauss Gun (compare 1 (http://sg.geocities.com/robotoys_inc/Terran1.jpg) 2 (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/31/Flood_Human.jpg/250px-Flood_Human.jpg))


Also, the number of 20 million is a huge underestimation. The intro text to the Terran mission New Gettysburg mentions how only a few Psi Emitters lured billions of Zerg to Tarsonis. And that's just the forces they had in the Terran sector; they had been battling Protoss on many similar-sized fronts for many years.

The Flood use whatever weapons are available to them, from whomever they infest. Also, the Flood combat forms are freakishly powerful, and would be able to fight with the Zerg forces quite well.

But yes, the Zerg would seem to be numbered far more than 20 million, as due from the Campaign, but I don't think they would outnumber the Flood.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Well what's the total number of Zerg? We don't know.

What's the total number of Flood? In the trillions.

Eh, I still believe the flood would take this. They're numbers are mucch much too high for Zerg.

You should make a Zerg vs Covenant thread.

Anything is that zerg are capable of aerial bombardment (guardians and the like. I'm sure some new strains have been evolved when SC2 comes out). If they stay really high up and attack (cerabrates are intelligent) then they don't even have to risk any ground troops

[Grrblt]

The Flood use whatever weapons are available to them, from whomever they infest. Also, the Flood combat forms are freakishly powerful, and would be able to fight with the Zerg forces quite well.
I understand they use whatever weapons are available, the question is what weapons are available? I'm still doubting that Uzi looking thing will be able to harm a zergling. Halo is set in the year 2550-something; Starcraft is set several thousand years in the future and the Terrans still don't have firearms to effectively deal with the zerg.

The combat forms also have some form of tentacles, but they honestly do not seem to pack a punch on the level of a Psi blade (which a zergling can survive two strikes from in-game).


Another question is when an Infection takes over a creature, do they assimilate that lifeform or do they just use the body as a warrior until it dies? Can they produce warriors on their own or do they need to infect hosts for that?

[Wesley]

I understand they use whatever weapons are available, the question is what weapons are available? I'm still doubting that Uzi looking thing will be able to harm a zergling. Halo is set in the year 2550-something; Starcraft is set several thousand years in the future and the Terrans still don't have firearms to effectively deal with the zerg.

The combat forms also have some form of tentacles, but they honestly do not seem to pack a punch on the level of a Psi blade (which a zergling can survive two strikes from in-game).


Another question is when an Infection takes over a creature, do they assimilate that lifeform or do they just use the body as a warrior until it dies? Can they produce warriors on their own or do they need to infect hosts for that?

Actually Halo and Starcraft take place during the same century.

[Grrblt]

Actually Halo and Starcraft take place during the same century.

You're right, I was thinking Warhammer 40k. But Halo's weapons still pale to Starcraft's from everything I've seen.

[Wesley]

Halo's weapons are based more on realistic physics then Starcraft's.

[Grrblt]

That hardly helps the Flood, now does it?

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Yeah, honestly, even if that is so, Terrans would Rape UNSC. UNSC are just barely hangin' on to earth, and possibly have lost it. (Halo 3 Trailer)

[Khamzul]

Flood need nervous systems to take on a host. THat's why hunters and the Sarge are immune. The Hunters being a complex organizism made up of thousands of individual creatures, while the Sarge's nerves are like poison to the Flood due to exposure to radiation.

The Zerg I imagine don't have very complex biology.

Actually they do. They are able to alter their genetics at will, and can take the qualities of every race they kill. And it does not take very long either, seeing how they managed to kill the elder spacefaring race (who created them and had created the Protoss before), within few generations assimilating genetics of beasts from their homeworld. They can incorperate the genetics of their enimies, and the Overmind also seemed capable of assimilating knowledge from this - gaining all the knowledge the Xel Naga had of genetics.

They have travelled throughout the universe assimilating aspects of the genetics of every race they have conqured.

So I think that the Zerg are immune, or would become it within the first phase of the battle.

[blacklusterseph004]

Besides, even if they could posess Zerg, the overmind would take over a Flood infection as soon as it can, once assimilated they'd become immune
They have travelled throughout the universe assimilating aspects of the genetics of every race they have conqured.

So I think that the Zerg are immune, or would become it within the first phase of the battle.This is what I was thinking. From what I understood about the Zerg genetics, they can adopt any genetic trait in one generation. So if some Zerg were infected, the overmind would become aware of the infecting dna, and the next generation of Zerg that are born would be immune. (in fact, after sampling the Flood, the zerg would become even more dangerous as they would gain the ability to rapidly infect other organisms)

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

This is what I was thinking. From what I understood about the Zerg genetics, they can adopt any genetic trait in one generation. So if some Zerg were infected, the overmind would become aware of the infecting dna, and the next generation of Zerg that are born would be immune. (in fact, after sampling the Flood, the zerg would become even more dangerous as they would gain the ability to rapidly infect other organisms)

However, I'm not sure how adaptive, both intellectually and biologically, the Flood are going to be against the Zerg. We don't know if the Flood would be able to change their genetic makeup in order to combat the Zergs immunity, like an evolutionary arms race.

[Kai]

However, I'm not sure how adaptive, both intellectually and biologically, the Flood are going to be against the Zerg. We don't know if the Flood would be able to change their genetic makeup in order to combat the Zergs immunity, like an evolutionary arms race.

You still have to consider how numerous the Flood really are. The Halo rings which are supposed to wipe out all sentient life in the galaxy can't destroy them.

That counts for alot.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

I think this may prove inconclusive, unless someone can come up with unrefutable evidence one or the other wins. The Flood have the upper hand, a huge one, in numbers, whilst the Zerg are much more advanced, from what I've gathered, and much more physically dangerous, coupled with a sentient and ancient, Overmind.

[omg laser pew pew!]

So which stage of the Swarm are we using current or at their prime (which I think was shortly after they took over Aiur)

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

We never really established anything other than who was fighting. We ought to do that, but there are so many different variables that could affect the outcome, that they had better be decided.

[omg laser pew pew!]

I think a few torrasque could take out planets by themselves

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Honestly, those damn things were near invincible in the game. I hated the final Terran level, fighting that damn thing. Blaugh.

[omg laser pew pew!]

They were easy when you have 14 Siege Tanks placed around your base :D

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Any ground unit is easy with that much firepower. XD

Personally, I was a Terran guy myself, but I was rather good with all races. I just loved the firepower the Terrans packed later in the game, its just surving the first few minutes that keeps people from being Terran. Damn Zealot/Zergling rushes.

[Fenix]

Yeah Thread Necro

This was simply too good of a thread :p

Zergs would have the advantage in this. They have matchable numbers against the Flood, and advanced zerg units can wipe out endless amount of Flood without endangering themselves. Also the battle ground has to have a limit on how many of each side can engage at the same time. If it's, say, 1 billion vs 1 billion at a time, the Zerg would win this in a murder.

This is all assuming the Flood start out in the forms they have in Halo1/Halo2 of course.

Also the whole infection thing is a nonfactor because the Overmind will definitely come up with a way to breed new Zergs to become immune to the Flood. They evolve and mutate at a brutally amazing speed and took out their freaking creators. Can the flood adapt? If they can, then it becomes an endless battle of evolution -_-