Shikamaru vs Spider-Man [Archive]

Shadow Replication 1480

01-01-2006, 06:44 AM

During the tournament he very easily anticipated the reactions that Temarai had.
Eh, you can't really use that in this fight because a)Temari is a long-range fighter while Spiderman isn't, b) it was an enclosed space where their fight took place, and c) she gave him way too much time to think out his plan

Hell, when you think about it, Shikamaru's pretty much just fought long-range types up until part 2(Kin, Temari, and Tayuya) and they all gave him time to plan by running their mouths when they should have gone for the kill(though Tayuya would have killed him if Temari hadn't shown up). A close-range guy who wouldn't give Shika time to plan would seriously fuck him up if he couldn't get his shadow jutsus off in time.

CrazyMoronX

11-24-2006, 11:51 AM

Shikamaru (current manga timeline) with all of his new abilities (chapter 332), vs Spider-Man.

Spider-Man may be adept at dodging, may have spidey sense, may have super strength, but can he hang with the genius that is Shikamaru? Will he be able to avoid... KAGE MANE?! :amazed Will he even try to avoid exposing his shadow, even if his sense does go off?

~Shin~

11-24-2006, 11:56 AM

Does shikamaru get prep time? And if so, how long?

CrazyMoronX

11-24-2006, 12:00 PM

Does shikamaru get prep time? And if so, how long?

No Prep-time. Prep-time is too cheap, as you never know what someone can or will do with it.

~Shin~

11-24-2006, 12:00 PM

Without prep, spidey will easily beat him using the broken spidey senses

Sasori

11-24-2006, 12:17 PM

Will of Fire > Spidey senses

The Wanderer

11-24-2006, 01:07 PM

Spider Sense >>>>> Will of FireThere, I fixed it for you. :amuse

Peter is a genius too. And he has been doing super hero stuff since day 1.

Goodfellow

11-24-2006, 02:24 PM

My money is on shika. Alright, his speed might not measure up to spidey's, but he has proven himself to be very good at dodging. Also, those chakra knives are pretty sweet.

The fight depends mostly on the enviroment and shika's equipment, and if Shika is able to hide (make his own prep time, so to say), which I belive he should be able to do (using that broken Kawamari).

Of course, spidey and his spidey senses might be enough to beat Shika^^

Hamaru

11-24-2006, 02:46 PM

I'm sure shika can think of a way to win this figt. I mean he can make clones, set traps, use his shadow, trainsform, and spidey does'nt have the power to break out of his shadow bind.

(but shika would not be able to take many hits from spidey)

Darklyre

11-24-2006, 06:07 PM

CrazyMoronX

11-24-2006, 06:09 PM

Clones don't matter because Spidey instinctively knows which are real and which are not. Spider-sense takes care of any approaching dangers, and it's not just a warning, he'll instinctively react to it. If a shadow comes, he'll automatically jump away. And illusions? His Iron Spider suit lets him do the same thing, by camouflaging him into anything he wants.

Will his sense tell him NOT to avoid a dagger? :laugh

Shika will make Spider-Man dodge the dagger, he will dodge it instictively, but that's not what he will be aiming for. Now, he'll aim for his shadow. I doubt Spider-Man's sense will tell him to make sure his shadow doesn't get hit by a dagger. :notrust

Shika would bind and kill Spider-Man.

Endless Mike

11-24-2006, 06:16 PM

Do you know anything about Spider-sense? It predicts any possible danger.

Gooba

11-24-2006, 06:17 PM

Geese

11-24-2006, 10:35 PM

Shikamaru would get owned easily.

Cthulhu-versailles

11-24-2006, 11:08 PM

<- Is an enourmous Shika fanboy....... therefore shika wins.............................................. ................................... with a strategu so godly even Dr. Doom would be envious.:nuts

ZergKage

11-25-2006, 12:16 AM

Its a weird fight to say the least. Good match up.

Enclave

11-25-2006, 02:03 AM

Look at how Spider-Man dodges, he jumps and does flips all over the place, I am sure after watching him for a while Shika could figure out where his shadow would go, but in that time Spider-Man could web Shika's face, giving him time to go in for the kill.

Actually Shika probably couldn't figure it out. The main advantage to Parkers fighting style is how random it is. Nobody short of Captain America can read his moves at all.

Also if Shika is aiming for Spidys shadow instead of spidy his spider-sense would warn him of the danger and his instincts would allow him to best avoid the attack, this means his shadow avoiding the attack.

The spider-sense really is that good.

Oh and to the person who said that Shika should be given prep time. Fine, Parker gets prep time also and Parkers genius > Shikas genius.

Goodfellow

11-25-2006, 02:58 AM

Actually Shika probably couldn't figure it out. The main advantage to Parkers fighting style is how random it is. Nobody short of Captain America can read his moves at all.

Also if Shika is aiming for Spidys shadow instead of spidy his spider-sense would warn him of the danger and his instincts would allow him to best avoid the attack, this means his shadow avoiding the attack.

The spider-sense really is that good.

Oh and to the person who said that Shika should be given prep time. Fine, Parker gets prep time also and Parkers genius > Shikas genius.

I doubt the last part^^ Can you give some proof to that statment?

Enclave

11-25-2006, 03:31 AM

Proof? The fact that he has been compared to Reed Richards, Bruce Banner and Tony Stark on multiple occasions should be proof enough.

kaiserthe3rd

11-25-2006, 03:34 AM

spidey might have great reflexes, be really strong and be really smart but shikimaru just has to many good abillities that can make spidey lose for sure.

Goodfellow

11-25-2006, 03:47 AM

Proof? The fact that he has been compared to Reed Richards, Bruce Banner and Tony Stark on multiple occasions should be proof enough.

Alright, that's pretty good proof. But shouldn't Shika be able to compare to them as well?

Eh, nvm, it isn't such a big deal.

Darklyre

11-25-2006, 05:47 AM

Shikamaru would be a child prodigy that graduates college at the age of 15.

Reed Richards is the guy that has multiple PhDs at the age of 13.

Paracetamol Boy

11-25-2006, 07:09 AM

If Spiderman tries to shot web, Shika can use the shadows cast by said webs to his advantage.

anyway i dun cum 2 da bdome to much so lololololsux0rz!!!

mystictrunks

11-25-2006, 09:00 AM

Spidey takes this pretty easily,with or without prep. Spider-sense is just to much,especially since the recent upgrade it got.

The Wanderer

11-25-2006, 10:43 AM

Will his sense tell him NOT to avoid a dagger? :laugh

Shika will make Spider-Man dodge the dagger, he will dodge it instictively, but that's not what he will be aiming for. Now, he'll aim for his shadow. I doubt Spider-Man's sense will tell him to make sure his shadow doesn't get hit by a dagger. :notrust

Shika would bind and kill Spider-Man.Read ASM 534, Peter was able to detect the main attack at the convoy he was protecting, which was hidden among an awful lot of fake attacks. Spider-Man will dodge whatever Shikamaru may throw at him (The daggers, the shadows, etc, etc, etc)

On a lighter note

Reed Richards is the guy that has multiple PhDs at the age of 13.

That's Ultimate Tony Stark, and he's also an ex-MIT. And Ultimate Reed Richards's IQ increases everyday. There is no way in hell that Shika can compete with those two monsters. Yeah, they're that smart XD

Gohan

11-25-2006, 02:50 PM

CrazyMoronX

11-25-2006, 03:53 PM

Read ASM 534, Peter was able to detect the main attack at the convoy he was protecting, which was hidden among an awful lot of fake attacks. Spider-Man will dodge whatever Shikamaru may throw at him (The daggers, the shadows, etc, etc, etc)

On a lighter note

Reed Richards is the guy that has multiple PhDs at the age of 13.

That's Ultimate Tony Stark, and he's also an ex-MIT. And Ultimate Reed Richards's IQ increases everyday. There is no way in hell that Shika can compete with those two monsters. Yeah, they're that smart XD

That's wonderful and all, but will Spider-Man try and have his shadow avoid being hit by a kunai? I think not.

Endless Mike

11-25-2006, 03:53 PM

Kisame

11-25-2006, 04:00 PM

Spiderman would win.

I doubt Shikamaru can beat kidoumaru. Let alone spidey.

Gooba

11-25-2006, 04:25 PM

That's wonderful and all, but will Spider-Man try and have his shadow avoid being hit by a kunai? I think not.Actually, he would, that is how his Spider Sense works.

Goodfellow

11-25-2006, 04:40 PM

wtf? is it only me who thinks shikamaru isn't that strong at all. his intelligence makes up for his weak abilities, but its not like they can solve anything.

in terms of genin

Sasuke ~~ Gaara > Neji > Naruto (Naruto wins cos of plot, i still reckon naruto is an idiot and neji is a better fighter) > Shino > Shikamaru > other genins

i dont know where to put rock lee, cos his kind of a dumbass in fights...

but yeh, spiderman destroys shikamaru.

That plot that Naruto has is called kyuubi, and it's a part of Naruto, making him effectivly stronger than Neji. If Naruto can't count the kyuubi as his power, then Gaara shouldn't be able to count his most immense sandpowers as well, becouse they as well orginate from a biju.

So don't go talking about plot when Naruto wins with the help of the Kyuubi.

Sorry for being picky.

On a lighter note, what has these comic supergeniouses accomplished? We've seen alot of impressive stuff from Shika (and that impressive stuff is why his one of my personal fav's to watch in a fight), but what have the super geniouses done to impresses the readers with their intellect? Besides getting scholarships that is.

Endless Mike

11-25-2006, 04:57 PM

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t399053.html

The Wanderer

11-25-2006, 05:07 PM

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,94726.0.html

Darklyre

11-25-2006, 10:52 PM

On a lighter note, what has these comic supergeniouses accomplished? We've seen alot of impressive stuff from Shika (and that impressive stuff is why his one of my personal fav's to watch in a fight), but what have the super geniouses done to impresses the readers with their intellect? Besides getting scholarships that is.

Reed Richards can assemble devices allowing him to jump to other dimensions in the time it takes you to microwave a TV dinner. From memory.

Tony Stark built a prototype Iron Man suit while a piece of shrapnel was embedded next to his heart, within a week, out of spare parts in a terrorist camp. He then proceeded to waste 50 terrorists while escaping.

And as for the Spider-sense, it's retardedly good. It alerts him to basically every conceivable danger there is and the best possible way to escape it.

Guy Gardner

11-26-2006, 12:43 AM

Taking the above into account, how can Peter be anything compared to these people while having done nothing even remotely close to what they have done with their minds alone? I mean, I know he's very, very intelligent, but I'd like to see the scans where he's been compared to get insight into how he was being compared, as I've never seen him do anything on the level of Tony Stark, let alone Mr. Fantastic (And no, overriding Stark's override doesn't count. Stark built an entire suit around him, finding and disabling ONE override isn't that impressive in comparison.). Having a unique and unpredictable fighting style, as well as being incredibly clever and observant doesn't exactly mean "I'm building an N-Zone portal today!"

And "Funding" isn't a factor. These are guys who build unstoppable war machines and transdimensional portals out of household items. Webslingers are hardly that great of an accomplishment.

EvilMoogle

11-26-2006, 12:56 AM

And "Funding" isn't a factor. These are guys who build unstoppable war machines and transdimensional portals out of household items. Webslingers are hardly that great of an accomplishment.

Mostly his intelligence is talked about more in theory than in application. Sure he hasn't built negative-zone portals in his backyard, but things like looking at the Lizard's research notes and formulating an antidote based on these in a minimal amount of time (while 15 none-the-less).

Just understanding things really. Tony took him on partly because he could understand the things Tony was working on without outside help (heck, that was the justification given for hiring Peter as a "photographer"). It wouldn't surprise me at all if Peter could read and understand the schematics for Iron Man's armor, which is not something a normal EE graduate could do ;)

And don't be too quick to discount his web slingers, they're compact and function in a wide variety of tasks quickly with minimal adjustments. And webbing was a "glue" that could hold several tons on a thin strand (far superior to anything Earth's scientists can make).

Nexas

11-26-2006, 12:58 AM

Peter is faster, stronger, and smarter than Shikamaru. In the unlikely event that he does get his shadow caught he can just break out. Tayuya did it and Shika was struggeling to hold Hidan so its not unbeatable after you've been caught.

Guy Gardner

11-26-2006, 01:52 AM

Enclave

11-26-2006, 04:36 AM

Again, I'm not saying he's not smart. He obviously is, especially to be doing things like what he did with the Lizard. But then again, I'm not sure he's up to anything that Tony or Reed have done. The webslingers are great, but that's not really Super-Mega Genius material to me. Creating a suit that is liquid-metal, thought-activated, displays various properties like light-negativity and such, along with dozens of other functions seems so much more. He's smart, but not a mega-genius.

His most recent showing of his brilliance was over-riding Starks forced shutdown of the Iron Spider armour. Anybody who can over-ride Starks over-ride in armour made by Stark himself is nothing short of a super genius.

edit:

This by the way, rather surprised Stark. Remember, Stark is known for quickly and easily hacking armour of his opponents even if he wasn't the one to make the armour. Parker however took armour Tony made and made it so Tony couldn't mess with it. Nobody else has ever pulled that off against Tony to my knowledge. Especially with his extremis upgrade. This feat of intelligence is much bigger than most people seem to realise.

Guy Gardner

11-26-2006, 04:42 AM

Debatable. In all likelihood, Stark never thought he'd actually look for it or override it, especially since it's Peter. That's obviously a showing of great intelligence, but Super-Genius? I'm not sure of that.

Enclave

11-26-2006, 04:53 AM

He didn't think Peter would over-ride it because he didn't think Parker was capable of doing it as nobody ever has before. I'm sorry but it really does take a super genius to outsmart Tony Stark when armour is involved.

Not to mention all the different web formulas Parker has come up with over the years and many other feats of intelligence. I'm sorry but he easily beats out Shika in the IQ department. If you don't want to accept it fine but I think the point has been proven and I really don't want to continue to harp on this as even outside the IQ department Parker would still win as he is physically superior in every way with a pre-cognition warning system.

Gohan

11-26-2006, 04:54 AM

That plot that Naruto has is called kyuubi, and it's a part of Naruto, making him effectivly stronger than Neji. If Naruto can't count the kyuubi as his power, then Gaara shouldn't be able to count his most immense sandpowers as well, becouse they as well orginate from a biju.

So don't go talking about plot when Naruto wins with the help of the Kyuubi.

Sorry for being picky.

On a lighter note, what has these comic supergeniouses accomplished? We've seen alot of impressive stuff from Shika (and that impressive stuff is why his one of my personal fav's to watch in a fight), but what have the super geniouses done to impresses the readers with their intellect? Besides getting scholarships that is.

Im not specifically referring to kyuubi. Neji wa able to match kyuubi naruto but conveniently turned off his byakugan. Naruto conveniently is able to fart at the exact time when kiba is at his nose. Kishi gave naruto a pretty high 'luck' factor in the book. Thats what i mean, as in Naruto gets really lucky. But i guess, it could be because Naruto is so clusmy alot of people underestimate him...

exmorte

11-26-2006, 02:05 PM

Ya know, on topic is nice.
Anyways Spiderman> Shika.
What does shika have over spidey?
Intellegnece: Spidey
Strength: Spidey
Stamina: Spidey
Jutsu: Well Duh Shika

Anyways we are forgetting that the shadow jutsu uses up chakra (however does it use up more over time, or a one time starting fee sorta deal?)
If I remember correctly the longer shika uses the jutsu the more chakra is drained. So Peter Really doesn't have to dodge that long before shika is out of chakra.
All it would take is a punch or two from spidey to knock shika down for the count.

So Spidey>Shika
(and this was just normal spidey, what about symbiote or iron spidey? or that cosmic spidey? XD)

Kinjishi

11-26-2006, 02:55 PM

Do you know anything about Spider-sense? It predicts any possible danger.

That's false and you know that. But that fact doesnt really matter for the situation at hand.

Anyway, Shikamaru is probably the better strategist, but Spiderman is no slouch when it comes to battle intelligence. Spidey will win without much problems. The problem with Shikamaru is that he has never had a definitive victory over any of his opponents. Sure he was impressive during the Chuunin exams, Sasuke Retrievel, and the current story arc, but I still wonder if he has what it takes to truly finish off his opponent.

exmorte

11-26-2006, 02:58 PM

Unless Shikamaru is actually Venom, Spidey can sense everything. =p
It doesn't matter if Shika has the guts to kill spidey, seeing as how he would never get the chance.

Enclave

11-26-2006, 03:20 PM

Unless Shikamaru is actually Venom, Spidey can sense everything. =p
It doesn't matter if Shika has the guts to kill spidey, seeing as how he would never get the chance.

Actually since The Other it seems the old tricks to bypass Parkers Spider-Sense don't work (Mysterio couldn't get past the spider-sense recently like he used to be able to. It is VERY possible that Venom can no longer get passed it either).

Oh and yes, the spider-sense does indeed warn against ALL danger. That is it's primary purpose!

exmorte

11-26-2006, 03:38 PM

Actually since The Other it seems the old tricks to bypass Parkers Spider-Sense don't work (Mysterio couldn't get past the spider-sense recently like he used to be able to. It is VERY possible that Venom can no longer get passed it either).

Oh and yes, the spider-sense does indeed warn against ALL danger. That is it's primary purpose!

Since the venom symbiote contains some parker DNA, then it shouldn't be able to sense venom should it?

And anywho, it doesn't matter in this fight b/c Shika =/= Venom
So spidey sense works. So spidey pwns Shika :amuse

Darklyre

11-26-2006, 03:48 PM

Since the venom symbiote contains some parker DNA, then it shouldn't be able to sense venom should it?

And anywho, it doesn't matter in this fight b/c Shika =/= Venom
So spidey sense works. So spidey pwns Shika :amuse

Thing is, hasn't his DNA changed ever since The Other?

EvilMoogle

11-26-2006, 03:50 PM

Actually since The Other it seems the old tricks to bypass Parkers Spider-Sense don't work (Mysterio couldn't get past the spider-sense recently like he used to be able to. It is VERY possible that Venom can no longer get passed it either).

Mysterio uses a (toxic) gas to negate Spider-sense. Spider-man's "Iron Spidey" suit has built in air filters to prevent that, so that's why Mysterio couldn't negate it.

On another note, Shikamaru with the Venom suit might be a more interesting fight against Spider-man... ;)

Enclave

11-26-2006, 04:41 PM

Mysterio uses a (toxic) gas to negate Spider-sense. Spider-man's "Iron Spidey" suit has built in air filters to prevent that, so that's why Mysterio couldn't negate it.

On another note, Shikamaru with the Venom suit might be a more interesting fight against Spider-man... ;)

Hrm, I could of sworn he fought Mysterio before the Iron Spidy suit...bah I can't remember for certain though.

Kinjishi

11-26-2006, 05:10 PM

Actually since The Other it seems the old tricks to bypass Parkers Spider-Sense don't work (Mysterio couldn't get past the spider-sense recently like he used to be able to. It is VERY possible that Venom can no longer get passed it either).

No it is not very possible. Unless you can prove the spidey sense can detect venom, then it is unjustifiable to claim so. Assumptions do not hold true unless supported by some fact. Mysterio has absolutely nothing to do with venom or the symbiote.

Oh and yes, the spider-sense does indeed warn against ALL danger. That is it's primary purpose!

False. Most not all dangers.

The Green Goblin developed a gas that can temporarily deaden spider-sense. This same gas was later used by Roderick Kingsley, in his guise as the villain Hobgoblin.

Venom is undetectable to Spider-Man's spider-sense, because the symbiote was mentally linked to him. His descendant symbiotes, including Carnage and Toxin, have inherited this trait.(Amazing Spider-Man #300). In the Secret Wars issue #8, Spider-Man first comes in contact with the symbiote. His spider-sense goes off but is quickly dampened as the symbiote flowed over Spider-Man's body and established the mental link that allowed it to generate webbing and respond to Spider-Man's thoughts.

Mysterio has developed a gas that can neutralize the sense.

The clones Kaine and Ben Reilly were also undetectable, and he is undetectable to their spider-senses as well. As they share the same DNA, their spider-senses recognize the others as "self."

Kraven the Hunter once used a jungle scent that dulled Spider-Man's spider-sense.

The Jackal once succeeded in attacking Spider-Man from behind, without triggering his spider-sense. The Jackal explained it to be due to him always being Peter Parker's (Spider-Man's alter ego) friend, meaning that the spider-sense wouldn't regard him as a threat/enemy. The Jackal then took off his mask, revealing himself to be Dr. Miles Warren, one of Peter Parker's teachers.

tl2e3le4f

11-26-2006, 05:14 PM

Shikamarus smarter, but Spidermans faster and stronger. This battle could go many ways. You can't judge it like that.

Guy Gardner

11-26-2006, 07:36 PM

He didn't think Peter would over-ride it because he didn't think Parker was capable of doing it as nobody ever has before. I'm sorry but it really does take a super genius to outsmart Tony Stark when armour is involved.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Let's take the context here. It's not like he's trying to out-invent Tony here. He's figuring out how to override his safeguard system. He didn't even think to look for it until Tony mentioned something about his Spider-Sense (Something Peter never mentioned to Tony before). I'm sure that Peter's considerable intelligence allowed him to disable it, but I doubt it was this was something that Tony put a huge amount of effort into. I mean, Peter was supposed to be his right-hand man; I doubt he made it nearly as hard as it would be for someone he didn't trust like he did Peter. Surprising Tony once =\= as smart as Tony.

Not to mention all the different web formulas Parker has come up with over the years and many other feats of intelligence.

Web formulas are great, yes. But I'd argue Pete is more on Batman's level (perhaps a little greater) when it comes to intelligence: Very, very intelligent, but probably in the lower half of the top ten.

I'm sorry but he easily beats out Shika in the IQ department. If you don't want to accept it fine but I think the point has been proven and I really don't want to continue to harp on this as even outside the IQ department Parker would still win as he is physically superior in every way with a pre-cognition warning system.

I never said he wasn't smarter than Shikamaru, so don't try to write me off like that.

I'm asking where he was compared to Tony Stark and Reed Richards. Creating webbing chemicals is a good start... but that sort of stuff doesn't compare with what Reed and Tony have done with things. Peter is smart, but Tony and Reed, to me, have shown themselves on another level.

Darklyre

11-27-2006, 01:28 AM

I think the comparison is that while Peter has roughly the same intelligence as Tony and Reed, the other two have used and developed it more. Give them a chessboard and they'd all roughly be at the same level, but put an engineering schematic in front of them and you'll see where they've applied their smarts.

omg laser pew pew!

11-27-2006, 01:40 AM

Vynjira

11-27-2006, 02:20 AM

The Spidey sense isn't always consistent though generally it's for the better. Normally he could dodge just about any thrown weapon though he would have some difficulties with the shadows but I don't think they could hold him in long enough to snap his neck
Spidey sense has been known to fail when Spiderman has no ability to evade an incoming attack as well as many other instances. It's very powerful tool but I don't see him landing attacks on Shikamaru nor do I see him evading Shikamaru for an extended period of time. Assuming this is some random forced encounter. I'd have to give it to Shikimaru do to Parker's instabilities. In addition if Spiderman so much as makes an attempt to get close to Shikamaru his Shadow abilities will lock Spiderman down.

I haven't seen how much his sense has improved in the last year but I still don't see it being enough. I'm just saying Shikimaru is known to force his opponents into a corner wether they realise it or not. He may jump out of the way to his sense but it could be a jump in a bad direction for him.

omg laser pew pew!

11-27-2006, 02:37 AM

Spidey sense has been known to fail when Spiderman has no ability to evade an incoming attack as well as many other instances. It's very powerful tool but I don't see him landing attacks on Shikamaru nor do I see him evading Shikamaru for an extended period of time. Assuming this is some random forced encounter. I'd have to give it to Shikimaru do to Parker's instabilities. In addition if Spiderman so much as makes an attempt to get close to Shikamaru his Shadow abilities will lock Spiderman down.

I haven't seen how much his sense has improved in the last year but I still don't see it being enough. I'm just saying Shikimaru is known to force his opponents into a corner wether they realise it or not. He may jump out of the way to his sense but it could be a jump in a bad direction for him.

Well location is important. If it's in the open street then I doubt even prepped Shika could hit Spidey with a generic thrown weapon (he might he had ALOT of prep time) though his shadows could get him (since Spidey generally needs to know the nature of an attack to dodge it)

Vynjira

11-27-2006, 02:53 AM

Well location is important. If it's in the open street then I doubt even prepped Shika could hit Spidey with a generic thrown weapon (he might he had ALOT of prep time) though his shadows could get him (since Spidey generally needs to know the nature of an attack to dodge it)
I totally agree Shikamaru would do more dmg in one of Spiderman's Classic alley fights or a warehouse. Out in the Open Shikimaru would be very limited.

However I still can't picture Spiderman pulling an edge even if he can dodge attacks before they happen that doesn't mean he can't be forced to move where Shikimaru needs him to be. Its a very powerful tactic, to force someone to move into a crippiling position. Unfortunatly for Spiderman, his Spider Sense is easily beaten that way. Shikimaru would count on Spiderman evading attacks. He counts on everyone evading if they can, which is why I see Spiderman getting into more trouble BECAUSE of his spider sense. If it was sheer sight and he could see everything that would happen then yes he'd beat Shikimaru no problem. However his spider sense won't stop him from jumping into more dangerous situation.

omg laser pew pew!

11-27-2006, 02:58 AM

Then that's where we decide what type of spidey sense he has, the one which is literally telling him the future or the stuff that just goes off at anything slightly dangerous

Darklyre

11-27-2006, 03:43 AM

His spider-sense has varied from only instant, vague warnings, to warnings hours in advance and with information as to the nature of the threat. Usually, his spider-sense tells him where the attack is coming from, how severe it is, and how best to dodge it. A sniper aiming a gun at him would set off his spider-sense. He doesn't even need to shoot, the simple act of aiming is enough. The thing is, though, he moves through instinct. His reflexes are all on an instinctive level, meaning Shikamaru would have problems if he tried to fight someone he thought was using logic. Either way, I don't see Shikamaru escaping his webbing, which he usually tries to immobilize people with first.

EvilMoogle

11-27-2006, 09:47 AM

Either way, I don't see Shikamaru escaping his webbing, which he usually tries to immobilize people with first.

And that is the real issue. I might see Shikamaru catching Spidey with his shadow given enough time.

But I can't see how or why he'd get enough time. Spider-man would just web him up or just outright attack him.

Spy_Smasher

11-27-2006, 11:16 AM

The only way Shika stands a chance is if the battle is tilted his way: he gets prep time, is bloodlusted and gets the choice of battlefields and Spidey doesn't. Other than that, it's a 10-second fight.

EDIT:
Spidey is vastly superior in all physical regimes. Speed. Strength. Toughness. Agility. Senses.

He is also vastly more experienced, including vast experience against superpowered foes with unusual abilities.

They are both very smart.

Vynjira

11-27-2006, 08:45 PM

meaning Shikamaru would have problems if he tried to fight someone he thought was using logic. Either way, I don't see Shikamaru escaping his webbing, which he usually tries to immobilize people with first.During the tournament he very easily anticipated the reactions that Temarai had. In addition Spiderman's webbing would most likely cause Spiderman the most difficulty. Thats like LINKING yourself to his shadow. NOT a bright idea imo. This is also after the 2 1/2 year time skip where Shikimaru is fully capable of Shadow Sewing. If Spiderman tries to connect with Shikimaru in any way himself I see Spiderman getting laid out. His best chance is to rip things of walls and throw them at Shiki. In any case the more I think about it the less I think Spiderman can. His Spider Sense is a Pre-cognitive sense it will trigger whenever Spiderman will become in Danger. (More accuratly it will trigger far enough ahead of time to give him the ability to stay out of harms way.) However it is normally rather vague but he has LEARNED how to more precisely tell whats gonna happen.

And that is the real issue. I might see Shikamaru catching Spidey with his shadow given enough time.

But I can't see how or why he'd get enough time. Spider-man would just web him up or just outright attack him.
Again Webbing would end Spiderman's chances of winning. He has to use projectiles the moment his webbing is connecting the two of them Shikimaru wins.

I see Spiderman's Spider Sense Cursing Spiderman during the fight. If Spiderman could focus on a logical pattern of attack he could win. The Spider Sense would cause him to react too wildly and push him into a corner.

Spiderman's lack of logical evasion, HURTS him. He's better off Out'thinking Shikimaru. Shikimaru is smart and a very quick study, his ability to observe is one of his remarkable abilities. When Spiderman starts dodging on instinct alone Shikimaru will use that knowledge to trap him. IMO.

Spidey's best chance is to launch a web to confine Shiki and then throw a brick at him from a Safe distance. However I don't see Spiderman doing this in character or Shiki getting cought in that web.

Blitzomaru

11-28-2006, 12:59 AM

A lot of people are forgeting what the common concensus on Spidey's spider-sense by the writers. It's a pre-cognitive 6th sense, but it's not something that says "You are gonna get shot in 3 seconds" It best to think of it as an intensity level. Pete always feels the buzz from his sense, but the more danger he is in, the more intense the buzz is. He has to conscously concentrate to not make his body move away from the danger. This being the case, it would be impossible to herd Spidey into an area where he would get trapped because he would sense it and do whatever he could to move out of the way.

Vynjira

11-28-2006, 10:54 AM

This being the case, it would be impossible to herd Spidey into an area where he would get trapped because he would sense it and do whatever he could to move out of the way.

Right, because he's never been cought off gaurd before...

Um, no. Also Spiderman has been noted as reacting to his Spider Sense by sheer reflex, infact he's trained his entire combat style as such. Which is why he's hard to predict. He's simply not going to evade someone like Shikimaru forever, especially when he's not able to evade slower dumber people for sometimes relatively short periods of time.

Boomerang, Vulture, Scorpion, Rhino. I'll just use these guys as my example for now. Boomerang being my best example of someone thats hit Spiderman several times in close combat or has jumped out and kicked Spiderman. Boomerang is my primary example because unlike the other he has no powers and is only as fast and strong and agile as a pro athlete. Someone like him should never have laid a hand on Spiderman.

Blitzomaru

11-28-2006, 11:30 AM

And at the same time someone like quicksilver should never be hit by someone like Spidey, Wolverine, Captain America, bullseye, or even Hawkeye, and he has been. And I am pretty confident that no one in the narutoverse moves as fast as Quicksilver does. Hell, even Flash got stabbed by Slade (and I FUCKING HATE THAT). Of course there are times when these superheroes get hit by slower people. hell, Aunt May dropped a vase on pete's head before, and I'm sure Shikamaru is faster than her. But I digress, and i stand by my claim that if Spidey can move out of the way of a bullet before it is fired, he can avoid a shuriken, shadow or kunai.

EvilMoogle

11-28-2006, 11:55 AM

Boomerang is my primary example because unlike the other he has no powers and is only as fast and strong and agile as a pro athlete. Someone like him should never have laid a hand on Spiderman.
Boomerang's also fought the Hulk before.

Boomerang's a prime example of Jobber Aura. He has no right fighting people even in Spider-man's league (let alone the Hulk), but they end up making Spidey and the Hulk fight weaker so that the comic's interesting.

Of course, in this fight I'm not sure Shikamaru has enough time to even use a Jutsu before he gets tagged anyway, so what's the point?

konflikti

11-28-2006, 12:01 PM

Spidersense can protect Spidey even from cosmic scale events as shown in Infinity Saga when he was lead by his spidersense to probably the only safe place on Earth. So tricking him into unable to dodge position is to be taken with grain of salt.

Gooba

11-28-2006, 01:07 PM

He's simply not going to evade someone like Shikimaru forever, especially when he's not able to evade slower dumber people for sometimes relatively short periods of time.Sure he won't, but Shikamaru isn't going to be able to dodge Spiderman's webbing/punches/kicks forever, and I am wiling to bet he will get hit before Spidey.

Vynjira

11-28-2006, 03:17 PM

Sure he won't, but Shikamaru isn't going to be able to dodge Spiderman's webbing/punches/kicks forever, and I am wiling to bet he will get hit before Spidey.

Thus my point, Shikimaru will take a hit to bind Spidey. Spiderman so much as touches Shiki he loses. He's not fast enough to get in a blow and move out before Shiki can lock him down.

Endless Mike

11-28-2006, 03:22 PM

He's fast enough to catch bullets, that's not fast enough?

Faster than any Naruto character....

Vynjira

11-28-2006, 03:24 PM

He's fast enough to catch bullets, that's not fast enough?

Faster than any Naruto character....

Right cause clearly those bone bullets we're not stopped by Gaara's Sand... and clearly Rock Lee must be slower than Spiderman... <.<;

konflikti

11-28-2006, 03:26 PM

Right cause clearly those bone bullets we're not stopped by Gaara's Sand... and clearly Rock Lee must be slower than Spiderman... <.<;

Bone bullets in a universe that knows no guns.

Vynjira

11-28-2006, 03:28 PM

Bone bullets in a universe that knows no guns.

Make them any less off a bullet?

Darklyre

11-28-2006, 03:31 PM

Those bone bullets were subsonic. Spider-Man has caught supersonic homing bullets that tracked his position and would fly accordingly.

Endless Mike

11-28-2006, 03:32 PM

Kimimaru's "bone bullets" were a joke, slow enough to be tracked with the naked eye.

Vynjira

11-28-2006, 03:33 PM

Those bone bullets were subsonic. Spider-Man has caught supersonic homing bullets that tracked his position and would fly accordingly.

Where do you get that they were subsonic?

Darklyre

11-28-2006, 03:36 PM

Well, they didn't cause a sonic boom, there was no appreciable recoil after being launched from his hands, you could still see them in flight, etc.

Vynjira

11-28-2006, 03:39 PM

Well, they didn't cause a sonic boom, there was no appreciable recoil after being launched from his hands, you could still see them in flight, etc.

From what I remember they were shot and it showed them real slow as the screen panned around them.

Limit_Tester

11-28-2006, 05:18 PM

Intelligence =/ battle sense. I'm not sure how well einstein would fare in the battle dome despite being extraordinarily brilliant.

And for the record the narutoverse does not have guns or bullets because Kishismoto has outright said that kunai would be no match. Thus, no character can dodge bullets.

Spy_Smasher

11-28-2006, 06:08 PM

Showing Spidey getting hit by Boomerang (or any Jobber) is really of no use. Spidey's one of the few characters I've seen where it's canon that he regularly holds back so as not to hurt his foes too bad.

At even a fraction of Spidey's power, Shikamaru is a one-punch knockout for Spidey. Am I wrong in assuming that they're going all-out?

Guy Gardner

11-28-2006, 06:10 PM

Vynjira

11-28-2006, 06:25 PM

At even a fraction of Spidey's power, Shikamaru is a one-punch knockout for Spidey. Am I wrong in assuming that they're going all-out?

Assuming he does actually hit Shikimaru on his first punch, Shikimaru like most Naruto Chars aren't that physically weak. He's taken some pretty hard hits and got back up.

~Shin~

11-28-2006, 06:55 PM

^Saying that shika could survive spidey's hits is saying that shika could survive a direct attack from tsunade head on

Vynjira

11-28-2006, 07:13 PM

^Saying that shika could survive spidey's hits is saying that shika could survive a direct attack from tsunade head on
Not quite,

~Shin~

11-28-2006, 07:17 PM

^Tsunade and spidey are pretty equal in strength so unless shika can survive a punch from tsunade, no way in hell is he surviving a punch from spidey

Vynjira

11-28-2006, 07:21 PM

^Tsunade and spidey are pretty equal in strength so unless shika can survive a punch from tsunade, no way in hell is he surviving a punch from spidey

As far as I know Tsunade's punches are a hell of alot tougher than anything Spidey's got.

IME, Spidey couldn't push a finger into the ground and create a crater.

Tsunade has, not even at her best she can do that. Spiderman's not a lightweight either but VERY bad comparision imo.

Endless Mike

11-28-2006, 07:51 PM

Spider-man knocked over a train car with a finger....

Vynjira

11-28-2006, 08:06 PM

Spider-man knocked over a train car with a finger....

Normal People can push a train car over..

Guy Gardner

11-28-2006, 08:10 PM

What normal people do YOU know?

Gooba

11-28-2006, 08:36 PM

What normal people do YOU know?Apparently Vyn grew up in a White Martian city.

Vynjira

11-28-2006, 08:53 PM

What normal people do YOU know?Um, "normal" people as in non-super-powered beings.

In the same way 7 people can turn over a car.

Gooba

11-28-2006, 08:58 PM

Um, "normal" people as in non-super-powered beings.

In the same way 7 people can turn over a car.Yea... Normal people can't push over train cars.

satanchrist

11-28-2006, 09:30 PM

More then once Peter has been in situations where he is paralyzed. But all the time he finds a way out. I'll find some way to get past Shadow Possession jutsu and then defeat Shikamaru.

Limit_Tester

11-28-2006, 10:31 PM

Ugh... He meant it wouldn't be fun because why use a Kunai when there is a handgun? A Naruto Ninja could certainly make themselves scare enough to make aiming a bullet impossible to a regular person, but adding a guns would only make things less fun.

That said, Shikamaru still can't handle Spidey, though it'd be a lot longer battle than most people are letting on. I don't think Shikamaru would get caught by webbing that easily, especially with things like Kawarimi and his own speed and agility (Most Naruto Nin could probably keep up with Spider-man).

Q: One thing I love about Naruto is how it's hard to tell when it takes place. People wear slippers, but then there are zippers on their clothes and they have telephone poles. What are thing we'll never see in Naruto - Computers, guns, planes?
A: I haven't really made up those specific rules, so there may be airplanes and some other vehicles, but absolutely no guns. Bullets fly at supersonic speeds, so there's no way that your shuriken could compete. As for computers, maybe, but they'd be low-processing computers.

Guy Gardner

11-28-2006, 11:36 PM

Bullets fly at supersonic speeds, so there's no way that your shuriken could compete.

Where is there anything about dodging? Oh, there isn't. A kunai wouldn't be able to compete for usefulness, which is why there are no guns. It's not about dodging or physical capacities, but rather balancing the situation to make it adhere to at least SOME of the commonalities among ninjas.

Thanks for proving my point!

Limit_Tester

11-28-2006, 11:53 PM

Where is there anything about dodging? Oh, there isn't. A kunai wouldn't be able to compete for usefulness, which is why there are no guns. It's not about dodging or physical capacities, but rather balancing the situation to make it adhere to at least SOME of the commonalities among ninjas.

Thanks for proving my point!

What are you talking about? The point is, guns would be unbalanced because ninjas can't dodge bullets. However, they CAN dodge kunai. This is what is known as a hard power cap. Or in this case. The maximum speed in the universe. Thats the whole point. Honestly, I don't even know why you responded in the first place to my comment considering it wasn't directed at you. It was a response to the "bone bullet" comments and how it was merely a phrase as opposed to an actual bullet. The point is, ninjas can't dodge real bullets. Take that as you will in the matchup vs. spiderman. I don't personally have enough information about spiderman to make an informed decision.

Darklyre

11-29-2006, 12:03 AM

Um, "normal" people as in non-super-powered beings.

In the same way 7 people can turn over a car.

7 people can overturn a car. Spider-Man can THROW A CAR AROUND LIKE A BASEBALL.

Slight difference there.

The Wanderer

11-29-2006, 12:06 AM

Um, "normal" people as in non-super-powered beings.

In the same way 7 people can turn over a car.

Dude, are you telling us that Nightwing, Batman or Cyclops can do this ?

http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Amazing_Spider-Man_32-03.jpg

Are you telling us that they can turn over a car, with a freaking finger flick ? :S

s0id3

11-29-2006, 12:09 AM

even though shikamaru is my favorite Naruto character...I'd have to go w/ spidey cuz he's my favorite marvel character...n plus he's been around a lot longer.

BattousaiMS

11-29-2006, 12:18 AM

I would give it to Spidy. Peter Parker has been one of the most brilliant men in marvel world. He hardly ever beat any of his villans (I mean major ones) with his special powers it was more to do with his cleaverness. Given his vast experiences I would give him one up on Shikamaru.

Guy Gardner

11-29-2006, 12:45 AM

What are you talking about? The point is, guns would be unbalanced because ninjas can't dodge bullets. However, they CAN dodge kunai. This is what is known as a hard power cap. Or in this case. The maximum speed in the universe. Thats the whole point. Honestly, I don't even know why you responded in the first place to my comment considering it wasn't directed at you. It was a response to the "bone bullet" comments and how it was merely a phrase as opposed to an actual bullet. The point is, ninjas can't dodge real bullets. Take that as you will in the matchup vs. spiderman. I don't personally have enough information about spiderman to make an informed decision.

I think we agree (I don't think ninja can physically dodge a bullet, though I don't perscribe to the belief that bullets are the bane of ninjas), but I simply misinterpreted what you were saying as the traditional "BULLETS > NINJAS LOL".

I appologize.

potential

11-29-2006, 03:05 AM

So flicking over a train is more of a feat than pushing your finger in the groung creating a huge crater? Alright i want u push ur finger in to the ground and see how much of a crater you'll. What ? cant do it huh? About 7 muscle bound men could push over a train but i doubt if all of them punched the ground at the same time wih all thier strength i doubt they would make a crater at all. When tsunade punched the ground it was like 10 grenades just went off on the ground.

Gooba

11-29-2006, 03:26 AM

Guy Gardner

11-29-2006, 04:33 PM

Vynjira

11-29-2006, 05:42 PM

If 7 strong men tried pushing over a train, they'd fail miserably. And Grenades don't create that big 'a crater.

Please, for the good of the world, shut up.

The point was simply 100 people can topple a train car, 100 people cannot stomp on the ground enough to cause a crater. Thus Flicking a Train is still not nearly as impressive as Tsunade "tapping" the ground for a crater(really bad word for what actually happens if you think about it.) In any case Tsunade still has alot more to her punches than Spiderman. BTW 7 people would have been enough to tip over that train that Spiderman Flick'd.

Honestly I believe Spiderman's ridiculous ability to hit top tier power houses like Punching Hulk or Firelord or any of the other powerful people he's run into as alot more impressive.

Gooba

11-29-2006, 06:32 PM

The point was simply 100 people can topple a train car, 100 people cannot stomp on the ground enough to cause a crater. Thus Flicking a Train is still not nearly as impressive as Tsunade "tapping" the ground for a crater(really bad word for what actually happens if you think about it.) In any case Tsunade still has alot more to her punches than Spiderman. BTW 7 people would have been enough to tip over that train that Spiderman Flick'd.Tsunade can't tap the ground and make a crater either. She can cause a chakra explosion out from her finger which creates a crater, but it is not a pure strength feat.

Vynjira

11-29-2006, 06:40 PM

Tsunade can't tap the ground and make a crater either. She can cause a chakra explosion out from her finger which creates a crater, but it is not a pure strength feat.

I never said it was, I was saying simply that a punch from Tsunade is not the same as a Punch from Spiderman.

potential

11-30-2006, 02:36 AM

Tsunade punches are a lot stronger than that flick.

Darklyre

11-30-2006, 03:10 AM

That's great, Spider-Man's punches are stronger than Spider-Man's flicks, too. What the hell is your point?

potential

11-30-2006, 03:12 AM

That's great, Spider-Man's punches are stronger than Spider-Man's flicks, too. What the hell is your point?

That tsunade flick would have launched that damn train 15 feet in the air u feel me.:oh

Galt

11-30-2006, 04:13 AM

No, we do not "feel you." In English, yes, we understand that you've made your point that Tsunade's strength is evidently greater than Spider-man's. Irrelevant. Whether or not Spider-man is strong enough to overpower Tsunade is a moot point, though you'll note that a finger-flick from Tsunade didn't quite do enough to blow a hole through Naruto's skull. Shikamaru's durability, at best, is somewhat higher than an ordinary human's. It means nothing in the face of class 15 strength. You are prolonging this thread's disgusting life by arguing about a point that is irrelevant to it.

Shikamaru, beaten unconscious by Spider-Man. Thread over.

Discuss Tsunade's comparative strength to Spider-Man somewhere else. :notrust