The White Wizard vs The White Witch

[Heartgobbler]

In today's match, we will spectate a battle of two power-hungry leaders, The White Wizard Saruman (Lord of the Rings) and The White Witch (Chronicles of Narnia). Both come with their armies of course.

Since it is easy to die a random death in a large battle, both leaders will stay behind, supporting their armies with whatever vile magic ( use of the palantir, weather control) they possess, until their presence becomes a must. Until then, the Army of Isengard will be led by Lurtz and the monsters' horde - by the White Witch's minotaur captain.

Will brutal discipline tryumph over savage ferocity?

[omg laser pew pew!]

How big was the Witch's army?

[Heartgobbler]

As seen in the movie. It doesn't seem quite as big as the army of Isengard but contains various monsters, such as harpies, minotaurs and giants.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Well that case then I think the 10k uruk hai army alone takes it (Saruman ain't needed)

[vagnard]

It depends the setting. On Charn or Narnia, the White Witch would be probably too strong for Saruman as a magician. But in any other place Saruman would win probably.

[Gaelek_13]

Saruman is a Maiar and even though you never really see him use it he wields considerable might so my money is on him. He always has his 10,000 Uruk's if he needs them.

[omg laser pew pew!]

His entire standing force is probably a couple thousand greater since he still has some to guard Isenguard

[Gaelek_13]

His entire standing force is probably a couple thousand greater since he still has some to guard Isenguard

That's true so it's more along the lines of Sarumans full military strength being equivalent to ten thousand(ish) White Hand Uruks and likely a couple thousand more Mordor Orcs guarding Isengard, the Wild Men of Dunland were helping too in unkown numbers.

[The Space Cowboy]

And of course, Jadis murdered all of Charn in one go. I say toss up favoring Jadis, as cosmologically she's a bit higher ranking than Sauron.

[Sasori]

Can't the white witch just say the forbidden word?

[omg laser pew pew!]

Can't the white witch just say the forbidden word?

Then it wouldn't be forbidden would it?

[Pipboy]

Well she broke the rule once, so she might again. The white witch has considerable power, enough to lock a land permanently in winter. Saruman never showed any such abilty and if he is allowed the full breadth of the compltely specualtive maiar powers, then the unforgivable word is in Jadis's abilty.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Sarumon was greatly restricted when he was placed in his physical body

[Pipboy]

Aaaannnnnddddd...... if he is unrestricted, then why is the white witch restricted?

[Sasori]

Then it wouldn't be forbidden would it?
:huh?

That's just what it is referred to.

And she said it before anyway.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Aaaannnnnddddd...... if he is unrestricted, then why is the white witch restricted?

Well if the Witch ain't restricted then it's only fair that Saurmon ain't as well

:huh?

That's just what it is referred to.

And she said it before anyway.

Don't worry, you kinda missed the point :nod

[Gaelek_13]

Maiar forms are difficult to assess in power really....

I remember once it being said on the BD that Gandalf versus some other opponent and he'd draw as Grey, win as White and pwn as Maiar so I guess Sarumans power would increase in a purely spirit form too.

[Pipboy]

Dude, how is it that you went from saying 'well saruman has maiar powers' to suddenly saying the exact same thing as I have been saying since I started posting.

Look: The forbidden/unforgivable word kills everything on the planet/universe save the one who utters it and scorches the land and sky.

If utter on the surface of middle earth the entire universe would be over. Everyone, saruman to sauron would die.

Lets only consider the locked form of Saruman and the unworded Jadis, LIKE I ORIGINALLY HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Dude, how is it that you went from saying 'well saruman has maiar powers' to suddenly saying the exact same thing as I have been saying since I started posting.

Ummm I didn't mention Sarumon's maiar powers

[vagnard]

Saruman is a Maiar who works for God (Iluvatar). The White Witch is a enemy of God (Aslan). Both of them high rank.

But if you compare them by feats the White Witch is more impressive than Saruman...she can turn anybody into stone instantly....she can cast a winter for 100 years over a whole country, she has a spell capable to kill every single person in the world in an instant, she has super strength and super speed (the movie didn't show that well) She can turn people or objects into dust with a spell.

Saruman's army wins in numbers.....But the Army of the White Witch is far more versatile....she has other witches at his service, dwarfs, wolves, giants, birds, Minotaur, giant bats, giant vultures, orcs, spirits of evil trees, etc. So they could dispose easily the stupid orcs of Isengard and the Uruk-Hai...

[Sasori]

Lets only consider the locked form of Saruman and the unworded Jadis, LIKE I ORIGINALLY HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR.Sorry, this wasn't in the first post.

[Heartgobbler]

Until now, Saruman is winning 3to 1 in votes.

Vangard, as for the armies, it is not that simple. While the uruk hai are less versatile, they have discipline. Crude, but still. Notice in the movie, when Gandalf arrives, there is no leader around that would be audiable through the chaos of battle but the uruks automatically form an orderly wall of pikes, as if instinctively (which may indeed be the case, since they were bred for war).
They also seem to have better equipment, (heavy crossbows and decent armour).

Of course it is also true that they don't have giants. (I love how they were shown in the movie. They could be any size and you would still guess they are giants.)

[omg laser pew pew!]

A uruk hai is roughly the size of a man

[Gaelek_13]

Until now, Saruman is winning 3to 1 in votes.

Vangard, as for the armies, it is not that simple. While the uruk hai are less versatile, they have discipline. Crude, but still. Notice in the movie, when Gandalf arrives, there is no leader around that would be audiable through the chaos of battle but the uruks automatically form an orderly wall of pikes, as if instinctively (which may indeed be the case, since they were bred for war).
They also seem to have better equipment, (heavy crossbows and decent armour).

Of course it is also true that they don't have giants. (I love how they were shown in the movie. They could be any size and you would still guess they are giants.)

Well the Uruk-Hai were never described as having any leader in the books either except for Ugluk who led the group against the Fellowship. However it's fairly safe to assume there would be some leader-figure in the giant army...one was shown in the movie - the lone Uruk on the rock who calls the advance to a halt.

[vagnard]

Until now, Saruman is winning 3to 1 in votes.

Vangard, as for the armies, it is not that simple. While the uruk hai are less versatile, they have discipline. Crude, but still. Notice in the movie, when Gandalf arrives, there is no leader around that would be audiable through the chaos of battle but the uruks automatically form an orderly wall of pikes, as if instinctively (which may indeed be the case, since they were bred for war).
They also seem to have better equipment, (heavy crossbows and decent armour).

Of course it is also true that they don't have giants. (I love how they were shown in the movie. They could be any size and you would still guess they are giants.)

Even the trolls aren't comparable to Narnia's giants. And the Witch's army still has too many ways to attack Saruman's armies: air, land, water, TREES (remember Ents...well this would be worst because the spirits trees of Narnia haven't physical bodies that orcs could damage.

Anyway...it doesn't matter because the Witch can end the battle with a single word.