The 4th and Naruto, something is wrong

[NastyM]

When the Sarubito used the 4th sealing justu on Orochimaru he sealed Oros arms to his own stomach, right?
Whats really strange about the 4th sealing the demonfox is that he is said to have put it in a babys stomach(naruto). Did he carry baby Naruto with him to the fight? No way if you ask me. But its not like you can seal something inside of you and then wander back to find a newborn baby. Then take the thing u sealed and put it into the baby.

You can ask yourself alot of questions here.

Did the forth have a plan? If he wanted to kill the kyuubi he could just do it by sealing it to him self. They would both go to hell and fight for eternity. He must have wanted for someone to use the power of the kyuubi for good and for protecting Konoha.

Naruto could not have been just anyone. I mean, its not like the 4th is evil. He must have put the Kyuubi inside someone he cared for and felt responsible for. He wouldnt just seal it into the first baby he saw. Naruto is special to the Forth, no doubt about it. Could be his son....or maby even himself????(i dont think so but..). The 4th also wanted the people of Konoha to look at Naruto as a hero.

Jirayia, the Demonfox and the big boss Toad all said that Naruto reminds them alot of the 4th. I think that Jirayia would know if Naruto was the Forth. He knows almoast everything. And he defenetly knows who narutos dad is. But Jirayia doesnt think that Naruto is the forth..he just think they are similar.

What drives me mad is that I cant figure out how the hell someone can seal something into someone else. The 4th was F.A.S.T but...i dont think speed has anything to do with him sealing something to someone else. Maby the 4th was better with just that sealing jutsu than Sarubito. I mean, the 4th teached Sarubito that jutsu.
Maby Sarubito could seal the 1st, 2nd and Oros arms into someone else to...but there was nobody near just then. And...he probably didnt want to seal them into someone else.

From all this, I really think that Naruto is Yondaime´s son. Or at least family related...

[Dimezanime19]

better question is why didn't the fourth just kill the damn demon instead of sealing him.

you definetly got a good theory on why didn't the fourth seal the kyuubi into himself. also, even if naruto was the fourths son, how come he didn't get respect from before? kakashi being a student of the fourth should've atleast knew he had a son. and if it was naruto, maybe kakashi would've paid more attention to naruto instead of sasuke.

[Jeltz]

better question is why didn't the fourth just kill the damn demon instead of sealing him.

Was it becuase the fox was more powerful than him and immortal?

[NastyM]

Was it becuase the fox was more powerful than him and immortal?

I dont think anyone can kill the Kyuubi in a normal fight..i think the 4th sealed him because there wasnt any other way to get rid of him.

[Dimezanime19]

Was it becuase the fox was more powerful than him and immortal?


powerful enough to seal but not to kill. ok. :blink

[SixPartFugue]

better question is why didn't the fourth just kill the damn demon instead of sealing him.

Because he was no where near being strong enough. Nobody was/is near being strong enough...

And yeah, your not the first person to suggest that Naruto is the fourth's son. That theory's been going around for awhile now.

[NastyM]

And yeah, your not the first person to suggest that Naruto is the fourth's son. That theory's been going around for awhile now.

I know that. Im just coming with some new views of it.

[angieness]

better question is why didn't the fourth just kill the damn demon instead of sealing him.

you definetly got a good theory on why didn't the fourth seal the kyuubi into himself. also, even if naruto was the fourths son, how come he didn't get respect from before? kakashi being a student of the fourth should've atleast knew he had a son. and if it was naruto, maybe kakashi would've paid more attention to naruto instead of sasuke.

Wasn't it stated that the demon comes back every so many years? By sealing it in someone it would prevent it from coming back. I could be wrong but I remember something like that being said

[silent_speech]

but the question still remains: how the heck did he seal kyuubi into Naruto?
was he carrying baby Naruto with him in the battlefield?
how can ANY ninja (including Naruto's parents if you believe that Naruto is not the 4th's son) be stupid enough to bring a baby to the battlefield in the first place?
or maybe the 4th already knew what he was supposed to do to Kyuubi, and just brought any random baby (poor Naruto) to seal Kyuubi in...

[Kamendex]

or maybe Yondaime used suushine not jutsu to teleport to the scroll he placed near Naruto when he was just born, and sealed the kyuubi inside him

[Narrrf]

Or, how do you seal something in someone else?

[WarDragon989]

well al this theorying got me thinking again

well say that we are all pondering how a baby got on the battle field

a. the woman carrying it gave birth on the battlefield, died moments later, and seal him like that

b. well i was thinking about how this sealing think works, i mean you give your live to seal the other thing in. Well because 4th created it as some people have been saying what, about that the 4th advanced far beyond what is currently know about sealing. b.1 Either it is as many of us think it is and that Naruto is the 4th. b.2 Another is that talking about advancement, is that he can seal a spirit (demon fox) and make a host in a way, and he thought of himself and created Naruto in his image

c. Demon fox is the 4th curse, so he sealed himself and becuase he used a seal he reverted himself back into a child

my current thoughts sorry if done before

[uzumaki-unk_chaos]

Here's what i think about how the 4th got naruto kyuubi:

To my knowledge, the battle that naruto faced against gaara when he was Shukaku (if that's correct spelling), Naruto was holding or i should say had frog boss's son above naruto's head. Now if frog boss's son isn't hurt at all during all that battle, even if when frog boss got hit by that packed wind attack, I do have a feeling that the 4th did carry naruto with him, but off course he must have frog boss summoned that way, he was protected better, and i think that's how he must of had naruto that seal, then someone must of took him, since after the technique is completed the 4th will pass away. That's what i think. What do you guys think of that?

[Balzax]

well al this theorying got me thinking again

well say that we are all pondering how a baby got on the battle field

a. the woman carrying it gave birth on the battlefield, died moments later, and seal him like that



do you think a women who is almost near 9 months pregnant would be on a battlefield? lol

[Axass]

The thing that I don't like about "the 4th is Naruto's father" theories, is that its only solid point is the physical similarities between the 4th and Naruto. Now seriously they aren't THAT similar, if you consider that even Yondaime and kid Jiraiya were similar, now is suddenly Jiraiya the Fourth's father? And look Sarutobi looked similar to Jiraiya too in his early days, does that makes him Jiraiya's father? The fact is Kishimoto loves these kinds of past-present-future analogies, he showed it many times. IMO the 4th and Naruto aren't related by family bonds, but I may see the "Naruto = Yondaime" theory more possible, mostly for the "Sarutobi sealing the demon inside himself not in someone else body" thing. But I also support the "Naruto is some kind of inhuman/partially human being created by Yondaime/something else/someone else" theory, hence the complete assence of reference of any kind to his parents (WTF not even a photo! How's that possible, it sounds fishy...). Or in a way more simplier view, it's just how they told us: Naruto's unrelated to the Fourth and his parents did die there, he was choosen out of casualty.

[Si Style]

Carrying a baby onto the battlefield? Whats wrong with you people?
Remember one of the first scenes? Naruto as a baby surrounded by candles? This suggests the placement of the Kyubii into Naruto was a ceremony, or a big sealing jutsu instead of the instant transfer on the battlefield.
Also, the only Shika fujjin no jutsu we've witnessed was the 3rds. Now, What we havn't considered is that when the soul is taken and sealed, the matter (i.e Orochimau's arms) simply disappears, which it quite clearly doesn't, it goes purple and inanimate. In which case, where is the huge inanimate, purple kyubbi??? If its around, Sarutobi said there is a one in a million chance that Naruto's seal can be broken. Well, you know manga and its "one in a millions" (curse seal - 1 in 10 chnace you'll die...who's died?), if the body is around, could there be a chance that Kyubbi could return???? I'm scaring myself....

[sexualrug]

First off, I think it is 1/10 chance that you will survive the curse seal.

Secondly, what the third hokage said about 1 in a million chance related to naruto reading the scroll and being able to unseal the kyuubi himself. I dont think sandaime was refering to the kyuubi just breaking out by himself.

Thirdly, I dont think naruto is some sort of reincarnation as it was clearly stated that he was a new born baby.

fourthly, the other reason why alot of people think that naruto and yondaime may have been related is that what type of hokage would take some random person's baby and seal the kyuubi in him?

lastly, the resemblence between naruto and yondaime is very great, much greater than that of jiraiya and 4th. The 4th and naruto have similar eyes, hair, smile, etc...
Obviously physical resemblance is far from conclusive, but we can take it as a possible hint.

[Axass]

Carrying a baby onto the battlefield? Whats wrong with you people?
Remember one of the first scenes? Naruto as a baby surrounded by candles? This suggests the placement of the Kyubii into Naruto was a ceremony, or a big sealing jutsu instead of the instant transfer on the battlefield.
Also, the only Shika fujjin no jutsu we've witnessed was the 3rds. Now, What we havn't considered is that when the soul is taken and sealed, the matter (i.e Orochimau's arms) simply disappears, which it quite clearly doesn't, it goes purple and inanimate. In which case, where is the huge inanimate, purple kyubbi??? If its around, Sarutobi said there is a one in a million chance that Naruto's seal can be broken. Well, you know manga and its "one in a millions" (curse seal - 1 in 10 chnace you'll die...who's died?), if the body is around, could there be a chance that Kyubbi could return???? I'm scaring myself....

It's pretty much a must that Kyuubi will be released sometimes in the series.

[Nyarlathotep]

I moved the thread to Naruto theories, it just seems to fit there more than in Konoha Library, I still don't know if I should merge this with the Shiki Fuujin, the Fourth, and the Fox thread.

[occasionalutopia]

^ Meh I suppose leave it, the Theories section was made for "individual" theories after all. Your prerogative though :wink

[Kamendex]

Whats with all this Yondaime carrying Naruto with him posts?

1. Naruto is in a redish room surrounded by candles with a seal on his stomach when we first see him, obviously Yondaime couldnt have brought him there, and he couldnt have been on gamabunta, because when he poofs there is no one to catch Naruto and bring him to the "room"

2. Why is it so hard to believe that the death god was holding Kyuubi's soul through Yondaime's stomach, while Yondaime used his teleport Jutsu to alter space and time and appear next to naruto, sealing him inside the boy

[Aidake]

All right, now it's my turn to say my piece :D

There are reasons why I don't think the 4th is Naruto's father, but I won't go into them here. Mostly, I want to discuss why the sealing jutsu the 4th used was different from the one we all saw Sarutobi use and just say that the 4th died while performing it.

Perhaps it goes like this: The 4th seals the Kyuubi into Naruto because the death god "tells" the 4th that the Kyuubi cannot be sealed into the body of the 4th since it is a spirit (a youma). So, the 4th strikes a bargain and somehow the death god "converts" the Kyuubi into a spirit that can be sealed.

Then, the 4th dies because he exchanges his soul for this technique, but Naruto lives. Ultimately, the death of Naruto would return the Kyuubi to the realm of death, but since Kyuubi is a spirit and cannot be "dead" it would return back to its world and then have the possibility of reappearing again. It's also possible that the Kyuubi would remain confined to the realm of death and be unable to get out. (Jiraiya explained the "two worlds", the one of humans and the one of toads, so maybe the Kyuubi returns to the world of "foxes" lol) Anyone else want to take a stab at this? Go right ahead, I saw some fairly good ideas in this thread :)

[empT3]

I'm of the opinion that the kyuubi was at some point in time a summoned servant much like jiraiya's toad and orochimaru's snake. I'm also of the opinion that something bad happened to the kyuubi to cause him to go mad and destroy a village (mabye even some kind of genjuustu, maybe from a mangkyo sharingan?).

moving on

I think the fourth managed to seal the kyuubi either into himself or into some object long enough to deliver it to naruto, I'm fairly sure that the death god didn't have much to do with it.

as far as naruto's relation to the fourth, i think they were both part of the same clan (hence the similar features) possibly even brothers or something.

or I could be completely wrong, which happens every now and then.

[Vatatzes]

i think the fourth and naruto are related b/c three reasons.

The physical similarities are unavoidable. the way the smile their hair the eyes you just dont see that with jiraiya and sarutobi. Plus everyone alludes to their similarities.

Secondly Hokages tend to have dynastic connections. The first and second were brothers. The fifth is the grandaughter of the first and the grandniece of the second. Kohnohamaru wants to be hokage like his grandfather. And since it is pretty clear naruto will become hokage someday, will he be following the footsteps of his dear old dad or brother?

Finally, It would be very unHokage-like for the fourth to seal the kyuubi in some random orphan child he picks off the street. I mean he wanted naruto to be seen as a hero and made it possible for the chakra of the kyuubi to leak when naruto was in trouble. Thats a lot of care for someone he picked off the street so carelessly.

[Kimi Sama]

I think it might just be a slip up on Kishimoto's part.

Thinking of actual reasons beyond that though... Yondaime's sealing kinjutsu might have been a different one from the one Sarutobi used on Orochi.
Kyubi is without a doubt a much more powerful creature then Orochimaru, so it's possible that Yondaime's sealing kinjutsu required Kyubi to be sealed within a living being because it was too powerful to be sucked into the Shinigami.

Heres a thought; if someone was to use the sealing kinjutsu on Naruto, what would happen?

[Hinata123]

i dont think they said that the he used the seal as the 3rd did to orochimaru so he must have just sealed him inside some randomn child

[SharinganBattousai]

So many theories so many ideas but we may never know until Kishi reveals it. I'm for the Brother of Naruto somewhat (makes more sense then father) or Reincarnation type of thing 2 Contradictory going on, Kyuubi's immortal properties along with the Sealing justu's effect.....just my opinion

[Aidake]

i think the fourth and naruto are related b/c three reasons.

The physical similarities are unavoidable. the way the smile their hair the eyes you just dont see that with jiraiya and sarutobi. Plus everyone alludes to their similarities.

Secondly Hokages tend to have dynastic connections. The first and second were brothers. The fifth is the grandaughter of the first and the grandniece of the second. Kohnohamaru wants to be hokage like his grandfather. And since it is pretty clear naruto will become hokage someday, will he be following the footsteps of his dear old dad or brother?

Finally, It would be very unHokage-like for the fourth to seal the kyuubi in some random orphan child he picks off the street. I mean he wanted naruto to be seen as a hero and made it possible for the chakra of the kyuubi to leak when naruto was in trouble. Thats a lot of care for someone he picked off the street so carelessly.

Good points, but I just don't agree :)

I think it would be very un-Naruto like for him to be related to the 4th and have a "dynastic connection". I mean, the whole idea of Naruto is that he is a "nothing-person" who was never acknowledged for anything. It would detract from the storyline (in my opinion) if the "missing son of the 4th Hokage" were to become Hokage. Why? Because in the series we have seen that "hard work defeats genious" and if it doesn't, well... it damn well tries to! :) I've made some refinements to my theory from before but I'm too tired to post them right now lol, and I also saw some good points that you made. At some point, I even agreed with them, but I've changed my vision of where Naruto might be going (or at least, where I would like it to go).

True: the similarities are there. But that is all that most of the people posting to support the theory that the 4th is Naruto's father have, and I don't think that it's enough. If people knew that Naruto was the son of the 4th, why would they hide that from him? Certainly everyone acknowledges that the 4th saved the village, but why take revenge on Naruto? Just because he has the Kyuubi sealed inside him? I don't know, I think there would still be villagers with the common sense to treat Naruto with some respect. (heck, even Konohamaru was called "young master" by Ebisu) :)

True: it is possible that Naruto is the 4th's son. The whole idea of the "dying wish" of the 4th who wanted Naruto to be seen as a hero, or not to be hated, seems that the 4th wanted Naruto to be destined for greatness, or at least not to live a life of suffering because of what he carried within him. However, I feel that if Naruto wasn't the son of the 4th, it would make the story of his struggles against the people who didn't acknowledge him as a child even more worthwhile or admirable. "The stuff of legends" where a "nobody" rises to greatness.

[Arilou]

I think it would be very un-Naruto like for him to be related to the 4th and have a "dynastic connection". I mean, the whole idea of Naruto is that he is a "nothing-person" who was never acknowledged for anything. It would detract from the storyline (in my opinion) if the "missing son of the 4th Hokage" were to become Hokage. Why? Because in the series we have seen that "hard work defeats genious" and if it doesn't, well... it damn well tries to! I've made some refinements to my theory from before but I'm too tired to post them right now lol, and I also saw some good points that you made. At some point, I even agreed with them, but I've changed my vision of where Naruto might be going (or at least, where I would like it to go).


Actually I don't believe Naruto will ever become Hokage... My theory is that the series will end with him being offered the title, but refusing it.

True: the similarities are there. But that is all that most of the people posting to support the theory that the 4th is Naruto's father have, and I don't think that it's enough. If people knew that Naruto was the son of the 4th, why would they hide that from him? Certainly everyone acknowledges that the 4th saved the village, but why take revenge on Naruto? Just because he has the Kyuubi sealed inside him? I don't know, I think there would still be villagers with the common sense to treat Naruto with some respect. (heck, even Konohamaru was called "young master" by Ebisu)

You assume that people *know* that he is the Fourth's son.

I'd just like to state that I think there is more to the Fourth, Naruto and the Kyuubi than we have been let on. The 4th obviously sealed the Kyuubi in such a way so that it's chakra would be availible when needed. Obviously not everyone knows this (Kakashi didn't, for instance)

[Aidake]

Actually I don't believe Naruto will ever become Hokage... My theory is that the series will end with him being offered the title, but refusing it.



You assume that people *know* that he is the Fourth's son.

I'd just like to state that I think there is more to the Fourth, Naruto and the Kyuubi than we have been let on. The 4th obviously sealed the Kyuubi in such a way so that it's chakra would be availible when needed. Obviously not everyone knows this (Kakashi didn't, for instance)


Well, let's put it this way. You're a famous person, like the Hokage of the village... now, unless you are really good, people will find out if you're married and have a son. Where did Naruto come from? I think it's just the way it was stated in the beginning, that he was an orphan (possibly found at the battlefield when the shinobi were fighting the Kyuubi).

I also think there's more to those 3 characters than we know now (or ever will know), but I don't see sufficient proof for the 4th to be related to Naruto. That's just what people want to believe, and I believe different (also because I want to believe different). Does that make sense?

[Arilou]

Well, let's put it this way. You're a famous person, like the Hokage of the village... now, unless you are really good, people will find out if you're married and have a son. Where did Naruto come from? I think it's just the way it was stated in the beginning, that he was an orphan (possibly found at the battlefield when the shinobi were fighting the Kyuubi).

I also think there's more to those 3 characters than we know now (or ever will know), but I don't see sufficient proof for the 4th to be related to Naruto. That's just what people want to believe, and I believe different (also because I want to believe different). Does that make sense?

Who said he was married?

[Aidake]

Who said he was married?
Who said he wasn't?

[Arilou]

Who said he wasn't?

No one, but you just assumed he was.

[Hattori~Hanzo]

I think it might just be a slip up on Kishimoto's part.

I agree with this more than anything else. Kishimoto may not have thought so far ahead at that time, and simply went on with the story. It is the fans like us who think too much.

Some things just don't require explanation. And even if Kishimoto thought along the same lines as those theories proposed, he can still change them as he likes (even at the very last minute).

[lmxru]

Yeah, this theory just puts more weight on the original theory that the 4th is narutos father/related to him. Give it up everyone who thinks they arent related. If they arent, Kish made a crap load of pointless hints, id say about 30-40 at least. And the kid nearly looks exactly like him. I dont think he is the 4th, it just seems weird that he would want everyone to look at him as the hero, like thats not evil or anything, but its saying "look at me, i stopped kyuubi from destroying konoha!".

[Aidake]

No one, but you just assumed he was.

And you just assumed he wasn't :p

Seriously, not poking at anybody, I'm just saying that I personally wouldn't want Naruto to be related to the 4th for reasons I already explained (i.e., wanting Naruto to be the "nobody" that rises to greatness)

[Strider M]

Aidake My Man!!! playing Tennis again? lol Well Good luck!

[Aidake]

Aidake My Man!!! playing Tennis again? lol Well Good luck!


Strider! :smile-big We were supposed to grab a drink after the match lol the ref requested Sake (go back to that thread about the Yondaime) you in?

Edit - who's :offtopic here? :p Anyway, I don't drink Sake either lol never tried it.


Now, back on topic: The 4th could've found Naruto at a field somewhere (parents dead in the destruction) and had him sit on Gamabunta's head while he performed the seal.

[Strider M]

Ehh I'm not a big Fan of Sake..... :offtopic I drink water because that's the Only thing That tastes as good as it feels!!! lol

[Arilou]

And you just assumed he wasn't :p

Seriously, not poking at anybody, I'm just saying that I personally wouldn't want Naruto to be related to the 4th for reasons I already explained (i.e., wanting Naruto to be the "nobody" that rises to greatness)

No, I assumed nothing :)

You said that one of the problems would be for him to have time to marry, father a child and keep it secret. I replied that there's no reason he has to be married... I don't assume much, but I also make sure not to deny any possibility :)

[Aidake]

That's true, so you're saying that Yondi fathered a child and never recognized the child or was trying to deal with the mother's pregnancy *scandal* :blink so maybe he knocked up Naruto's mother and, in a horrendous revenge, used the baby to seal the Kyuubi? :p

[Lothar]

I'm convinced that Yondaime and Naruto are relatives, because Kishimoto sensei has obviously seeded information all around the manga. His caracter, his figures, the jutsus he uses... So I do think that the fourth is Naruto's father. But I also have another theory: Naruto could be the son of the fourth and a kunoichi of another village/country, which could lead to the fact that he is born not in Konoha but elsewhere... that could explain that his birth has been hidden: the fourth couldn't have been with the enemy... the tragedy of a romeo and juliet, shinobi version. The fourth would have wanted to present Naruto to the leaf folks, but the kyuubi incident happened and Naruto was left there, only known has the kyuubi child. It's a bit foul, but I like this idea...

[maxhrk]

i have question for youk, why did jiyarda teachs naruto fourth's rasegean?.. nevermind i will see naruto's face when 3 years time is up by end of january.

We will see if there is resemeble or not. :p

[Radion]

This is a good question but most of you only realize half of the Jutsu... The third didnt just seal the souls of the 1st, 2nd and Orochimaru in his stomache, They were eaten by some god or something. The real question should be how he sealed Kyuubi into Naruto, and why he didnt Seal it in himself so that both could die. This also brings to question how in hell would Tsunadae have been able to heal Orochimaru if half of his soul was forever gone?

[Vatatzes]

maybe he didnt want his enemies (ie Oro) to know about naruto's existence since they would try to kill him to get at the fourth.

[Garson007]

Maybe the fourth sealed the Demon in himself and than afterwards in Naruto. He would be part of Naruto, yet not be him. So maybe Naruto consists both of the 4th and the Demon.

Out of interest's sake: How can you teach or learn a skill that kills you? How could the 4th teach the 3rd of his ability? How could he develop the ability?

[Arilou]

I'm convinced that Yondaime and Naruto are relatives, because Kishimoto sensei has obviously seeded information all around the manga. His caracter, his figures, the jutsus he uses... So I do think that the fourth is Naruto's father. But I also have another theory: Naruto could be the son of the fourth and a kunoichi of another village/country, which could lead to the fact that he is born not in Konoha but elsewhere... that could explain that his birth has been hidden: the fourth couldn't have been with the enemy... the tragedy of a romeo and juliet, shinobi version. The fourth would have wanted to present Naruto to the leaf folks, but the kyuubi incident happened and Naruto was left there, only known has the kyuubi child. It's a bit foul, but I like this idea...

Romeo and Juliet: Ninja version!

Sweet :)

That's true, so you're saying that Yondi fathered a child and never recognized the child or was trying to deal with the mother's pregnancy *scandal* so maybe he knocked up Naruto's mother and, in a horrendous revenge, used the baby to seal the Kyuubi?

Maybe (from what we know this seems out-of-character though, although we never know if Yondi mgiht have been a real evil guy and just pretended all along) (almost makes me want to start a "Yondaime is the leader of the Akatsuki" crackpot theory just for the hell of it)

More likely he was keeping it secret to protect the kid... (maybe that was the reason he sealed the Kyuubi inside Naruto instead of himself, not to imprison the demon-fox but to have it act as a protector for Naruto?... This would throw things in a very different light indeed)

[Radion]

Heh im sure this is a way going about devoloping techniques... I mean what if Orochimaru mesed up when he changed bodies and ended up dead. Probably the Sarutobi saw the fourth use it or he wrote it down somewhere... At any rate how he devoloped it isnt as big of a deal as how/why he used it in that way.

[Aidake]

Romeo and Juliet: Ninja version!

Sweet :)



Maybe (from what we know this seems out-of-character though, although we never know if Yondi mgiht have been a real evil guy and just pretended all along) (almost makes me want to start a "Yondaime is the leader of the Akatsuki" crackpot theory just for the hell of it)

More likely he was keeping it secret to protect the kid... (maybe that was the reason he sealed the Kyuubi inside Naruto instead of himself, not to imprison the demon-fox but to have it act as a protector for Naruto?... This would throw things in a very different light indeed)

I agree, and I wasn't denying the possibility of the Yondaime keeping Naruto's birth a secret, it just seems the way you said: out-of-character. It's entirely possible that he kept the birth a secret to protect Naruto from his enemies (let's face it, a Hokage will have deadly enemies). :P

Also, there is truth in what you say, and it has been shown in the anime and in the manga that the seal is designed to protect Naruto by allowing the Kyuubi's chakra to leak between the two 4-sign seals and return into Naruto's chakra. Jiraiya himself said "4th Hokage... it's to protect this child, I see" or something along those lines. We've definitely seen Kyuubi protect Naruto when he needed it the most, what I wonder is to what extent will Naruto "fuse" with the Kyuubi or if Kyuubi will ever come out of Naruto (and perhaps transform into the summons for Naruto instead of him having to summon Gamabunta to fight) :)

[Arilou]

I agree, and I wasn't denying the possibility of the Yondaime keeping Naruto's birth a secret, it just seems the way you said: out-of-character. It's entirely possible that he kept the birth a secret to protect Naruto from his enemies (let's face it, a Hokage will have deadly enemies). :P

Also, there is truth in what you say, and it has been shown in the anime and in the manga that the seal is designed to protect Naruto by allowing the Kyuubi's chakra to leak between the two 4-sign seals and return into Naruto's chakra. Jiraiya himself said "4th Hokage... it's to protect this child, I see" or something along those lines. We've definitely seen Kyuubi protect Naruto when he needed it the most, what I wonder is to what extent will Naruto "fuse" with the Kyuubi or if Kyuubi will ever come out of Naruto (and perhaps transform into the summons for Naruto instead of him having to summon Gamabunta to fight) :)

The thing is, everyone assumes that the *reason* he's trapped in Naruto is to protect the village, and that Naruto is supposed to "keep the Demon-fox in" so to speak. What if that's NOT the case, but the demon-fox was lured to Konoha just so that he could be sealed inside Naruto for his protection?...

[Aidake]

The thing is, everyone assumes that the *reason* he's trapped in Naruto is to protect the village, and that Naruto is supposed to "keep the Demon-fox in" so to speak. What if that's NOT the case, but the demon-fox was lured to Konoha just so that he could be sealed inside Naruto for his protection?...


Err... I can't agree with you there, it's just not very logical that a village would WANT to lure a destructive monster close to the village... People (fans, not the people in Naruto's village lol) assume that the *reason* Kyuubi is sealed inside Naruto is because the 4th Hokage wanted Kyuubi to protect Naruto instead of harming him, but also to protect the villagers from Kyuubi appearing again and destructing the village.

Also, I don't think the 4th Hokage would've wanted to die just to seal the Kyuubi into Naruto so that Konoha would have a "Gaara" (remember Gaara was actually "engineered" to have the Shukaku inside him). I think that would definitely go against the character of the 4th and the series itself.

[Radion]

Err... I can't agree with you there, it's just not very logical that a village would WANT to lure a destructive monster close to the village... People (fans, not the people in Naruto's village lol) assume that the *reason* Kyuubi is sealed inside Naruto is because the 4th Hokage wanted Kyuubi to protect Naruto instead of harming him, but also to protect the villagers from Kyuubi appearing again and destructing the village.

Also, I don't think the 4th Hokage would've wanted to die just to seal the Kyuubi into Naruto so that Konoha would have a "Gaara" (remember Gaara was actually "engineered" to have the Shukaku inside him). I think that would definitely go against the character of the 4th and the series itself.

I agree with you... I mean you dont cut off your nose to spite your face just like you dont send a Gaint Fox demon to attack your village in order to ultimatly save it? Now the question that I presented that should be answered is why the 4th didnt just take Kyuubi with him into the after life, like the 3rd did with the other Hokage's and part or Orochimaru. I dont think that the 4th could have seen that far ahead in time to know that it would be a blessing in the end. In fact its more of a liabilty if Kyuubi ever got out then its bye bye Konoha.

[gambunta]

I don't know how wrong this is but im thinking along the lines that he can actually talk to the death God like if it was a summon and it only cost you your life when the deal ends so maybe Yondaime was loosing badly to kyyubi loosing a lot of shinobis and has a last result he sommuned the death God and the fact that he was a spirit(demon fox) made the demon hesitate on killing him and he then engineered the seal that naruto has one and just send it his jutsu to the village by using the rest of the chakra. An i think that kyuby's chakra and soul are jailed to naruto therefore when naruto is gone (since kyubi soul would be mortal) he would go with him

[Aidake]

I don't know how wrong this is but im thinking along the lines that he can actually talk to the death God like if it was a summon and it only cost you your life when the deal ends so maybe Yondaime was loosing badly to kyyubi loosing a lot of shinobis and has a last result he sommuned the death God and the fact that he was a spirit(demon fox) made the demon hesitate on killing him and he then engineered the seal that naruto has one and just send it his jutsu to the village by using the rest of the chakra. An i think that kyuby's chakra and soul are jailed to naruto therefore when naruto is gone (since kyubi soul would be mortal) he would go with him


This is almost EXACTLY my theory in another thread. Wish I could remember which one it was because I worded it almost the same way lol I don't think you're wrong, I think you're closer to the truth (or at least, more logical about what really happened with the seal, since it wasn't the same one the 3rd used against Orochimaru)

If you want to read my theory, rep me :p and I'll go find it lol

[Strider M]

Aidake, What's up? lol

Seriously though.... I don't understand where you got the idea that the technique the 3rd used against Orochimaru wasn't the same as Yondaime did...

[Aidake]

Aidake, What's up? lol

Seriously though.... I don't understand where you got the idea that the technique the 3rd used against Orochimaru wasn't the same as Yondaime did...


Hey hey, you stalking me Strider? :p heheh


I don't understand where you got the idea that the technique the 3rd used against Orochimaru WASN'T the same as Yondaime did :D

No, seriously now lol... I will try to find that theory I had about why the technique is slightly different (they both use the Shinigami and the user ends up dying, except that I know your point of view about the reincarnation theory you had) but hey... I still don't believe it :p

[Strider M]

I'm not Stalking you Aidake ...(even though it says "The DarkStalker" under my username its just a title!) It's just every time I'm browing though this Naruto Theories section I see your name!

and I'll be awaiting to see your views on the Shinigami summoning thing...

[Radion]

I don't understand where you got the idea that the technique the 3rd used against Orochimaru WASN'T the same as Yondaime did :D



From what the third said about the technique he did use the same sealing jutsu as the fourth did... I wish I could quote it but I cannot but he said something along the lines of learning it from the fourth.

[Aidake]

From what the third said about the technique he did use the same sealing jutsu as the fourth did... I wish I could quote it but I cannot but he said something along the lines of learning it from the fourth.

Radion, you're right... to an extent.

Strider M...hahah, I had to go back to my old posts to try again and explain in this thread why I think the 4th and Naruto aren't related, but now I'm again explaining why the seal the 3rd used isn't EXACTLY the same as the one the 4th used on the Kyuubi. Anyway, about 80 of you people will ignore this post because of its length, so I made a quick summary here:
1. Yondaime is dead.
2. The seal used on the Kyuubi was different than the one used to seal Orochimaru's arms.

Yondaime is dead because when Sandaime was fighting Orochimaru, he realized that Orochimaru used Edo Tensei and said: "That move is..." and that seems to indicate that he knows what it is; then he realizes (after the First coffin appears) "And those summons are... I have to stop the third no matter what" because he knew that the coffin coming up would be the fourth Hokage. Now, it doesn't make sense that he wouldn't know what was in the coffins because he says "I stopped the third one, but the trouble begins here...He called upon those two, OUT OF ALL PEOPLE" So, he knew without the shadow of a doubt who was in each coffin. Also, if Orochimaru had succeeded in summoning the 4th, Yondaime had knowledge of the Shiki Fuujin technique that Sandaime used to seal the 2 Hokages, not to mention how much more problematic it would've been to fight not just 2, but 3 of the greatest Hokages ever!

Also, Yondaime is dead because it has been repeated time and time again that he sacrificed himself to save Konoha from the Kyuubi. At any rate, it doesn't matter that the 4th sacrificed his life to the death god because his soul can be taken from whatever realm he is in to be summoned. Think about this: Edo tensei is a technique that allows the dead to return to life in this world, but we are NEVER told where the spirit comes from (either heaven,hell, wherever).

In addition... :)


So either way if Shinigami "ate" the soul, that soul cant be digested and destroyed I have yet seen an Anime where souls can be destroyed!.... Drained maybe....but never destroyed. So it's possible... Orochimaru could've summoned the 4th.... But this would contradict Naruto being the reincarnation of Yodaime.

I don't think Yondaime is Naruto reincarnated because both were alive at the time that the Kyuubi was sealed (though thanks to Strider M for pointing out the differences in reincarnation ideas). It's possible that Naruto is related to the 4th, but I don't want to believe in it since I would rather that Naruto be a "nobody" with no inherited talent from a genious father. Also, I didn't know how often the Kyuubi came out into the "real" world, but there must not have been a regular time interval (where did you hear that it was 100 years?) because the Kyuubi was feared as a "natural disaster" and those happen at any time.

Further, I'm not sure I can agree with the statement that the Yondaime knew "something was coming". I mean, it is possible that he could read the signs, considering that birds flee and dogs howl when a disaster is about to occur, but even then that would not give him enough time to develop the technique and teach it to the Sandaime. Unless Yondaime was somehow involved with divination, but that's entering into another realm of discussion. It's possible that Yondaime was able to communicate with the Shinigami however, because he was a genious and may have found a way. In this case, it's possible that he didn't need to "practice" the technique and was then able to teach it to the 3rd.

It's always stumped me why the 4th used that technique if he knew it would cost him his life. Another curiousity is that I think it's possible that he made some kind of contract and said "Oh death god please take my soul and whatever adversary faces me if I call you". Now, it seems that the reason the technique is different is because the Kyuubi is an "ethereal being" or a "spirit" while Orochimaru is a living person and has a soul (or so we think lol).

So, basically, the "spirit" of the Kyuubi probably can't be sealed into the 4th because the technique would kill the 4th and I'm assuming that his death would release the Kyuubi back into the world.

Perhaps it goes like this: The 4th seals the Kyuubi into Naruto because the death god "tells" the 4th that the Kyuubi cannot be sealed into the body of the 4th since it is a spirit (a youma). So, the 4th strikes a bargain and somehow the death god "converts" the Kyuubi into a spirit that can be sealed. Then, the 4th dies because he exchanges his soul for this technique, but Naruto lives.

Ultimately, the death of Naruto would take the Kyuubi to the realm of death, but since Kyuubi is a spirit and cannot be "dead" it might be possible for it to return back to its world and then have the possibility of reappearing again. It's also possible that the Kyuubi would remain confined to the realm of death and be unable to get out because when Naruto is about to die after using the Rasengan on Kabuto, the Kyuubi says that his power is being engulfed by darkness (i.e., death since Naruto was dying). Anyway, Jiraiya explained the "two worlds", the one of humans and the one of toads, so maybe the Kyuubi returns to the world of "foxes" lol

Lastly, I'm not entirely sure if Kyuubi even comes from the same realm as Gamabunta and the others because the three summoned creatures that we've seen (Manda, Gamabunta and Hachi) are loyal to the Sannins. If Kyuubi was from the same realm (I'm assuming) he wouldn't be as wild. If Kyuubi is from the same realm, then someone would be able to make a "contract" with the animal, right? Jiraiya explained it that way when he taught Naruto the Kuchiyose-no-jutsu. Maybe nobody has the contract?

[tejina]

Who says that no one (meaning the older ninja's that knew the 4th) knew about Naruto! I mean it was forbidden to talk about the fox inside Naruto why not about him being the 4th's son?! Maybe they did this so that no one would try to use him or kidnap him (like with Hinata) because he was the son of the 4th! Plus it looks like the people who REALLY knew the 4th are acually kind to Naruto! They do act like they care much to keep susspition about the truth away from people who would use him!
On another note with the sealing. How he did it, well in the manga it says that it was sealed in the navel of a NEWBORN baby. Meaning that the baby was just born! It might have been sealed like Garra's demon was to him where the mother had to die for it that would explain the reason to Naruto being an orphan! Or some other way of sealing (would account for the candles around him at his birth). We have seen that you can use the shadow replication to seal too! So maybe it was done that way some how! we could go on and on but in the end there will be only ONE WAY! And I don't think that will be revealed for awhile!

[Aidake]

Umm last I remember... the only people who showed any kindness to Naruto when he was young was the Sandaime and later, Iruka-sensei. Manga/Anime doesn't show anything about the older Ninjas. Even Kakashi only says "I see, he has grown in an interesting way" when he first meets Naruto with Sasuke and Sakura. (Granted, he may have heard of him before, but we can't assume what his attitude was back when Naruto was a baby)

And the point about the sealing, you're still not explaining how the 4th died because of the seal. If the 4th had performed a Shadow replication and used it to perform the seal, how would it have been transferred into Naruto? No, the 4th actually sealed the Kyuubi inside of himself and then possibly transferred it to Naruto with a different technique OR he made the Shinigami take his soul in place of Naruto's when he performed the seal. And like I said, it is only because of my opinion that I don't want to believe that Naruto is the son of the Yondaime since it would (in my opinion) take away from the fact that Naruto is a "nobody" rising to "greatness". See?

[Strider M]

Ahhhh I finally see Aidake! I finally understand!
I see How you came across that.....

But I can say it doesn't really matter because Everyone in the Naruto world believes that Yondaime is dead.... Also Everyone believes that Kyuubi is dead...sorta... There's Just Naruto.... that has blonde hair like Yondaime and has the Kyuubi Chakra... nothing more.

I do like how your "Yondaime strikes a bargain with the Death God senario" lol

Yondaime- Kyuubi! I got you!!! *peace-sign*

Shinigami (Death God)- Urrrghhh!!!!

Yondaime- :huh uh.....what's wrong...

Shinigami- Ugh... I knew that Fox would give me INDIGESTION!!!

Yondaime- Huh?...What?!

Shinigami- Demons don't go well in my diet.....I'm gonna let him out and just eat you instead...

Yondaime- What?! WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WAIT!! How bout you like......Seal him up or something?

Shinigami- I'm not sealing Kyuubi in you!! I'm gonna eat you!

Yondaime- sure sure.... but can you seal him in something else....someone else? .......*thinking*.....*Snaps* NARUTO!!!

Shinigami- ......Naru-who?

Kyuubi- um... guys?

Yondaime- Naruto!

Shinigami- uh I guess so just make it quick...

Yondaime- ok lemme go find him.

Kyuubi- um... I'm like not dead?

Yondaime- *Brings back Naruto* Ok here he is....

Shinigami- .....It's a baby..... :notrust A Naked Baby...

Kyuubi- PedophillIa?!

Yondaime- :yelling SHUT IT UP!!! I'M NOT LIKE THAT!!!

Kyuubi- Well excuuuuuse me! But I aint gonna fit in no baby...

Shinigami- .......I'm gonna have to agree with him there.....

Yondaime- What!?!? You're on his side!??!? He's the Enemy!!!

Shinigami- *Shrugs*

Yondaime- Whatever, He can hold Kyuubi.... He's a special Baby...

Kyuubi- I KNEW IT!! IT IS PEDOPHILLIA!!! You're a freaking Pedophile!!

Shinigami- :laugh *Laughs* (<---- Yeah Imagine that)

Yondaime- *sighs* ...... You know what? Fine....I'll just cancel the jutsu... No Yondai-meat for you!!!

Shinigami- What?!?! Ok OK!! *Seals Kyuubi's soul in Naruto, eats Yondaime and disapears*

*Naruto Series Begins*

Yes.... That whole conversation happened within that flash Yondaime made in the beginning of episode 1.

[Arilou]

Just a point: Naruto being the Fourth's son would (sort of) explain how he could seal it within him instead. Same blood after all (it seems to be one of those ideas that are common in magical/mystical systems)

[gambunta]

Ahhhh I finally see Aidake! I finally understand!
I see How you came across that.....

But I can say it doesn't really matter because Everyone in the Naruto world believes that Yondaime is dead.... Also Everyone believes that Kyuubi is dead...sorta... There's Just Naruto.... that has blonde hair like Yondaime and has the Kyuubi Chakra... nothing more.

I do like how your "Yondaime strikes a bargain with the Death God senario" lol

Yondaime- Kyuubi! I got you!!! *peace-sign*

Shinigami (Death God)- Urrrghhh!!!!

Yondaime- :huh uh.....what's wrong...

Shinigami- Ugh... I knew that Fox would give me INDIGESTION!!!

Yondaime- Huh?...What?!

Shinigami- Demons don't go well in my diet.....I'm gonna let him out and just eat you instead...

Yondaime- What?! WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WAIT!! How bout you like......Seal him up or something?

Shinigami- I'm not sealing Kyuubi in you!! I'm gonna eat you!

Yondaime- sure sure.... but can you seal him in something else....someone else? .......*thinking*.....*Snaps* NARUTO!!!

Shinigami- ......Naru-who?

Kyuubi- um... guys?

Yondaime- Naruto!

Shinigami- uh I guess so just make it quick...

Yondaime- ok lemme go find him.

Kyuubi- um... I'm like not dead?

Yondaime- *Brings back Naruto* Ok here he is....

Shinigami- .....It's a baby..... :notrust A Naked Baby...

Kyuubi- PedophillIa?!

Yondaime- :yelling SHUT IT UP!!! I'M NOT LIKE THAT!!!

Kyuubi- Well excuuuuuse me! But I aint gonna fit in no baby...

Shinigami- .......I'm gonna have to agree with him there.....

Yondaime- What!?!? You're on his side!??!? He's the Enemy!!!

Shinigami- *Shrugs*

Yondaime- Whatever, He can hold Kyuubi.... He's a special Baby...

Kyuubi- I KNEW IT!! IT IS PEDOPHILLIA!!! You're a freaking Pedophile!!

Shinigami- :laugh *Laughs* (<---- Yeah Imagine that)

Yondaime- *sighs* ...... You know what? Fine....I'll just cancel the jutsu... No Yondai-meat for you!!!

Shinigami- What?!?! Ok OK!! *Seals Kyuubi's soul in Naruto, eats Yondaime and disapears*

*Naruto Series Begins*

Yes.... That whole conversation happened within that flash Yondaime made in the beginning of episode 1.

Funy really funny good one don't worry i hope that one day in one of those graphs jiraiya will make the konoha village family tree and explained all this so we can understand all the genealogy probably a filler during naruto's training :

[Radion]

See what everyone thinks but I disagree totally on is the Naruto is the 4th's son. Now you can argue it both ways but it seems to make alot more sense if he wasnt the 4th's son.

I mean think about it the 4th is supposed to be the greatest hokage of all if he was truely Naruto's son Naruto would have been treated alot different (unless he was a bastard son but I dont think a hokage can sleep around :P ). Now you can argue that he wouldnt because he has the fox demon inside him but if you think about it if Naruto was the 4th's son then he would be looked upon as a savior especially because he is the prison for the fox, while instead he was an outcast.

Really I think that Naruto is supposed to remind us of the fourth just like Rock Lee reminds us of Gai but they are not related. I also think that Naruto being the 4th's reincarnation is even a more stupid theory since the 4th would have to totally consume Naruto's spirit but not only that but the 4th's spirit was supposed to be eaten by Shinigami the death god or whatever.

[Strider M]

Well, even though I did write that... It was only a joke! Here's the things I believe:

According to the subs, People Thought that Naruto IS the Kyuubi! I haven't heard one villager say that he just have the kyuubi sealed in him.

Everyone in the Village thinks that Naruto is Kyuubi! Which is not too far from the truth.... Naruto Has Kyuubi in him. (of course) and I think (granted Yondaime did the same death god technique the 3rd did on Orochimaru) That Yondaime is in him as well.

It seems to me that Naruto was created by Kyuubi and Yondaime's deaths...

[captainpg]

Perhaps Yondaime had both had enough with Kyuubi's attacks and was looking to the next ninja war, and somehow used some sort of redirection justu, to both keep it away from death and reincarnating anytime soon, and use its power for the good of the villiage. What if kyuubi's been sealed before and outlives its past hosts?

Point is, Naruto didnt have to be carried to the battlefield. The candles around him as a baby are most likely used in some jitsu to locate the seal within naruto once its performed, while yondiame goes out on the battlefield to catch kyuubi while paying with his own life to make it all happen.

And no doubt naruto's at least related to the fourth. would you entrust the power of a godlike Youma to someone other than your own clansman?

That's my theory, borne of too much caffiene at 1 in the morning.

[xlezz]

Stop speculating like this about everything, you will end up killing the fun in Naruto:p

[esmee]

Well . . . .because that ''damn demon'' has the ultimed chakra . . .sounds kinda lame to me but whateva . . .it can't get much higher then that can it so . . . .as a ''mere human'' (yeah right that guy wasn't a mere human) one doesn't posses that kind of power . . . at least thats what I've gotton from what Itchia said about the nine tailed fox . . .
stilll . . . just a theory . . .

[Oneiropolos]

This is my first post, so try not to be TOO mean. :wink
There's alot of talk of Yondaime being Naruto's father... but what if he was his brother? Now, I'm not being completely random here, and I'm also fairly certain this has been suggested before multiple times, but I thought I'd present my take on it all the same. As far as literary value, this theory makes alot of sense. It provides an interesting foil to Sasuke and Itachi's relationship. Itachi sets out to turn Sasuke into a monster like himself. He does this by murdering the clan for his own power. Itachi's goal is destruction. Now, let's say that Yondaime WAS Naruto's older brother. Essentially, he sacrifices himself to SAVE a village (rather than kill like Itachi). This action does turn his little brother 'into a monster'. Unlike Itachi, however, Yondaime's goal is to make Naruto a hero. Someone to look up to, not to fear. Yet, the villagers do fear Naruto- but they praise Sasuke. Sasuke is the 'hero' for the villagers: The last Uchiha, the 'genius'. Naruto is the monster: The loser, the 'nine-tails kid'. If Yondaime was Naruto's older brother, then he is the exact opposite of Itachi. Jiraiya makes a comment that it took Yondaime years to master Rasengan. Now, I'm not doubting that Yondaime was a genius, but I get the sense he achieved his skill more out of hard work and determination then simply being 'that good'. Itachi didn't seem to have to work at all. I cannot help but think that if Yondaime was Naruto's older brother, he would have loved him entirely. I can envision Yondaime helping Naruto grow and improve. Itachi, obviously, did not do this for Sasuke. I think this would also answer the, "Why don't people know about Naruto/Why don't they respect Naruto more?" question to. Easy- They don't hold it against Sasuke what Itachi did, do they? Ironically, they DO hold it against Naruto what Yondaime did. Not in saving the village, but in putting the kyuubi in him. Still, from the brothers we've seen in the series, it doesn't seem to really matter if you're related to someone other than, "Hey, you going to be as great as him?" And they don't say that to Naruto because, clearly, Naruto won't be in their minds because of the Kyuubi. Naruto is a monster to them, and that he's related to Yondaime is just unfortunate. Of course, like I said, there's no proof that Yondaime is even related, but it makes an interesting comparison all the same. If he is, then both Sasuke and Naruto are chasing after what their older brothers were. For Sasuke, this could destory him. For Naruto, this could make him the strongest of all.

I admit that I am one of those people who do believe that Naruto and Yondaime are related or connected in some deeper level than simply the seal. I don't believe this compromises Naruto as nobody who rises to greatness. Konohamaru is the grandson of a hokage, but he doesn't seem like he'll ever actually be a hokage himself. Just being related to a hokage doesn't make one great themself. If anything, Kyuubi was originally a handicap on Naruto. Even if it wasn't, it isn't Naruto's strength that makes him a great character. It's his heart. His heart is what has touched everyone he's come in contact with- Haku, Zabuza, Neji, even Gaara. It doesn't matter where Naruto came from, or who he's related to. He was still a lonely child who learned to survive but didn't sacrifice his heart. He is still a 'nobody' who rose to 'greatness'. Didn't Ibiki say during the first exam that there was no point in waiting any longer because Naruto just mangaed to give courage to the entire room? That is a trait of a great leader- that is Naruto's Greatness.

[Xith]

Yay! My first post as well, anyways on with what I think. Firstly, I have to go with the people that think Naruto is not the fourth's son. Related, yeah maybe, but I doubt it is his son. It just wouldn't make sense not to tell him that his father is the fourth. I mean someone would have to know, I don't think the head of the village could keep that a secret very long. Naruto definitely doesn't resent the fourth for what he did, so there is no emotional factor really involved. I also agree with others on how such an arrangement would hurt the story, it would turn Naruto's successes into more of a destiny then something he obtains by working hard (which seems to be a big theme).
As for the Kyuubi issue, well it is in my opinion that the fourth knew (or found out) that Kyuubi could not be taken with him using the 'Seal of the Death God'. I doubt it would work, since it is stated that Kyuubi just appears, destroys things, and disappears and cannot be defeated indefinitely (the whole immortal / unlimited chakra thing). I don't think Kyuubi is, or was, a summon, since it seems that summons can only remain for short periods of time (like how Gama Bunta has to return back to his realm after the fight with the Shukaku of the Sand). It seems to me that it is something totally different, like an actual manifestation of chakra that somehow has a developed a personality (destructive) and takes form. Now as for the technique that sealed it, here is what I think.
In my opinion, the Seal of the Death God doesn't necessarily mean you have to seal it on yourself. When the third did battle with Orochimaru, he made it his specific purpose to take Orochimaru with him. From what I gathered the technique curses the user to eternity in the belly of the death god, not the creature sealed. The third just decided to seal it onto himself so Orochimaru would have no chance of escape. In Kyuubi's case that wouldn't work, since it would just reincarnate eventually. The reason I think this is because the seal is not unknown (which I imagine it would be since it was a technique only the fourth and third knew). When Jiraiya is training Naruto to walk on water he finds Orochimaru's seal and unseals it. But he also comments, that the seal holding Kyuubi are two four point elemental seals that form an eight point celestial seal, and that these were made to tie in with Naruto's chakra so he could use Kyuubi. My guess is that the fourth used the Seal of the Death God technique to draw out the spirit of Kyuubi from its physical manifestation. Then as the death god held the spirit he used its power to make the celestial seal with the changes that allow Naruto access to Kyuubi's power (Naruto's seal looks almost exactly like the one that appears on the third, but with some minor changes in its form). He would have time since the technique seems to last as long as the user can hold out (as we saw when the Third fought Orochimaru). Also the technique seems to work so that it doesn't need your physical presence, since it holds onto your spirit and reaches through you, so it would be possible to move.
Well that is my theory so far, I hope to hear everyone's comments.

[Radion]

I dont think that the 4th is Naruto's brother either.... Its to much of a crazy Idea.... they are at least 20 years apart. I also disagree with him sealing Kyuubi into Naruto so that Naruto could become a hero... I think that it was the only choice in order to seal such a demon because I mean whats stopping the 4th from taking the Demon with him where he will never come back? While in Naruto he still could escape or act through him.

[gambunta]

i guess that he decided naruto would be a hero after putting the kyubi inside right before he died

[Radion]

Maybe but what he thinks doesn't matter.... hes dead :P

[maxhrk]

Well, even though I did write that... It was only a joke! Here's the things I believe:

According to the subs, People Thought that Naruto IS the Kyuubi! I haven't heard one villager say that he just have the kyuubi sealed in him.

Everyone in the Village thinks that Naruto is Kyuubi! Which is not too far from the truth.... Naruto Has Kyuubi in him. (of course) and I think (granted Yondaime did the same death god technique the 3rd did on Orochimaru) That Yondaime is in him as well.

It seems to me that Naruto was created by Kyuubi and Yondaime's deaths...

wrong.

Naruto is not created, read the early chapter in manga that naruto is a NEWBORN BABY that kyuubi just got sealed in.

[Oneiropolos]

To those saying that the fox will just get free when Naruto dies, in the episode where Gambunata was first summoned, the kyuubi basically says that Naruto is blackmailing him because he'll die if Naruto dies. Is this not in the manga? I think it's the same episode, as well, that Jiraiya tells the fourth not to take offense, and basically makes the supposition that if Naruto manages to survive, then it's because the kyuubi was placed in him to protect him. Sandaime also indicates in the first volume that the Yondaime put the kyuubi in Naruto to protect him. Maybe both Sandaime and Jiraiya are wrong about Yondaime's reasons, but it doesn't seem likely considering that out of everyone, it seems they knew him best.

[Code]

wrong.

Naruto is not created, read the early chapter in manga that naruto is a NEWBORN BABY that kyuubi just got sealed in.
...

If he were created they wouldn't have said it. They would leave it as a suprise.

[afreet77]

hi all

this my first opinion and first fourm i join so im that expert+english is not my lunguage so any errores if some one wany to re write my openion in better qulity i dont mind

so will made it Q&A method...i ask my self and my brine answers its theorez any way

is the 4th naruto father

yes

Q:but why people dont know....

A:i assume that every body on that vilge know the 4th and his wife but...
i think when kubi (9tails) attack 4th late for reason that he waiting his wife to finsh bringing naruto so i think also she died during that and the 4th as pwerfull ninga he khnows that gonna die sealing this fox so he is sure that this baby will rise in mesrabile way {orphand) and want people respect him instant of ignor him so he seal it (foxy) inside nar nar and he might was afraid to some one els to avenge the 4th by kiling his child....ok seal it and thats it


Why people dont know

may be the 3rd as his wisdom say to people that the both died (and baby)
to protect him thats why he was lil happey when he use kubie chakra in exame


Q:why people dont compar that they look like

A:we all know that some of them think that naruto is kubie him self and may be the jutsu 4th use is make him form look like the user of this jutsu {naruto must be look like 4th to convert 9tails to human)

and reason who know the truth lied for naruto sake is there is no blond in villige + one uzmaki member

hope u like waiting u guys :wink

[liminosse]

yer, i think the fourth was late because whoever was pregnat with naruto was giving birth so he was waiting for the child to be born, guess they died in the process and 4th went to fight, after he pulled out the fox's soul he held it out instead of pulling it into himself then teleported to naruto and shoved the fox into him, figure he wouldn't just kill the fox with the technique because maybe the fox isn't affected by death(immortal?) reason he gave naruto power is because(thoery) if naruto dies then the fox would be sealed inside a dark corpse forever, and his chance that the seal would someday break or be released by naruto would be gone, anywho thats my thoughts in a nutshell

[ubernoob]

never mind i had something here posted it and realized its irelevance so pretend this isnt here :confused

[Capt. Rosuko]

One odd thing, is that the death seal that Sarutobi and the 4th used, seals the souls within themselves. So how did the Kyuubi go from the 4th to Naruto. Maybe... the fourth is a woman who was pregnant with naruto. When the kyubi was sealed within him, Naruto was beginning to be born, and thus the kyuubi went into him instead.

Random, psycho conspiracy. lol shoulda warned ya before i said it.

[metalanime]

its already been explained that kyuubi was sealed into a newborn child, the 4th and naruto existed simultaneously at one point, how it happened isnt important, its the fact that it did.

[Nehir]

How can a someone hold a spirit to move through outside the body? Only a spirit can hold a spirit to move.


Yondaime killed himself to free his soul, then take out the demon's spirit outside of the demon's body and carry it to a newborn baby to seal the inside of the baby. (I am asumming the baby is not at the battlefield, so Yondaime's spirit moves the Kyubi's spirit to where the baby lives in. and it doesnt take so long since spirits move very fast... :blink ) And then after the completion of seal, the death god was taken Yondaime's spirit. :blink

[Rynoa]

How many threads I've seen about this? X) Yondaime and Naruto's relantionship is worst than a novel...

[freegood]

There was a pregnant drug addict that was too cracked out to know some giant fox was destroying the town. Lo and behold the 4th needed a baby so he stuck him in the retard we know as Naruto.

[itachi_kage]

well al this theorying got me thinking again

well say that we are all pondering how a baby got on the battle field

a. the woman carrying it gave birth on the battlefield, died moments later, and seal him like that

b. well i was thinking about how this sealing think works, i mean you give your live to seal the other thing in. Well because 4th created it as some people have been saying what, about that the 4th advanced far beyond what is currently know about sealing. b.1 Either it is as many of us think it is and that Naruto is the 4th. b.2 Another is that talking about advancement, is that he can seal a spirit (demon fox) and make a host in a way, and he thought of himself and created Naruto in his image

c. Demon fox is the 4th curse, so he sealed himself and becuase he used a seal he reverted himself back into a child

my current thoughts sorry if done before

i'd say c. but...if that's not true, naruto must come from a super strong clan! think about it, shukaku was put inside gaara right? he is the kazekage's son! and look how well he controlled it (he couldn't even go to sleep!) naruto didn't slip at all until the fight with haku, and even then he stopped himself from killing.

[west blue]

just be patient to finally find out about the truth, it will only take about 3 years... lol..
for me, i love to see the resemblence between naruto and yondaime, but i hate to think that they might be family related. that would make impression that blood is everything. i want to think that naruto can be a respected ninja because his own hardwork, not because he shared the same genetic code with yondaime.

[Sol 3dge]

Kyuubi was too strong and the technique is versatile and able to adapt to the situation.

[NastyM]

Hmmm..dont know about that.

[JayG]

Well, even though I did write that... It was only a joke! Here's the things I believe:

According to the subs, People Thought that Naruto IS the Kyuubi! I haven't heard one villager say that he just have the kyuubi sealed in him.

Everyone in the Village thinks that Naruto is Kyuubi! Which is not too far from the truth.... Naruto Has Kyuubi in him. (of course) and I think (granted Yondaime did the same death god technique the 3rd did on Orochimaru) That Yondaime is in him as well.

It seems to me that Naruto was created by Kyuubi and Yondaime's deaths...

I'm not sure we can take the villagers words literally. Here's something to keep in mind. Here's an example...

If you are close to the refrigerator, I can ask you "can you hand me the milk?". Notice, that, realistically, what I am asking of you, is not to bring me the milk, but to bring me the CONTAINER that holds the milk. I don't think anyone would say "Can you bring me the bottle that holds the milk?"

It's just typical vernacular, especially in a non-formal conversation to refer to the CONTENT, rather than the container.

[kreutzerlove]

we all don't know why yet, but it's definately going to be revealed later and I can't wait to know!

[ste6616]

c. Demon fox is the 4th curse, so he sealed himself and becuase he used a seal he reverted himself back into a child


I will go with that one but with more thought on it:
It goes with the healing abilites of the Kyuubi, in an final intend to protect himself (meaning not to die as the same time as the "container"), the Kyuubi was able to make a "super healing" on Yondaime resulting on saving Yondaime but returning him to the state of a baby (it's accord with the story that the Nine Tails was sealed into a newborn baby even if that baby isn't born in a regural way)
It's also explain why Naruto has not parents. Would bring that "thing" back to Yondaime's parents saying: "Well, that's your son, he did a jutsu that results with him being a baby again" Assuming that they still consider Naruto as the Yondaime and not like Yondaime's body with an another soul.
And that also concord with the thing why people hated Naruto, they considered that baby no more as the Yondaime but as the Kyuubi controlling the remains of Yondaime.
It also accords with the fact that Naruto is Yondaime look-a-like and have the "Kyuubi Mark". Somes says Naruto look like Yondaime because Yondaime is also sealed into him, but could that change his appearance? I don't think so.
And would Yondaime really sealed the Kyuubi into a baby and that baby to be in the futue seen as a hero? As we know a seal can be broken and the effect of that sealing on the baby can't be forseen. It's taking a lot of risk compared to sealing the Kyuubi into himself. And for me it doesn't sound something like Yondaime would do. Could he even anticipate the fact that Naruto could use the Kyuubi chakra? And many people, in the beginning of the story, that the Kyuubi will break the seal and get out.
From what we have seen for the Jutsu look like, it doesn't look like there is time to put a baby into the middle of it and sealing into another "container". The user is also the "container" of the victim soul. And in 260 chapter and 135 episodes, we haven't seen that particular sealing. For what is one of the more important thing that happened, isn't it weird? That event must hide something (that can also something else). In the first episode of the anime, we go from what look like the start of the jutsu to a shot of Naruto as a baby in the middle of candles. (if my theory is right, I would say it's the moment after the sealed was done, and the remaining men have to decide what to do with the baby: kill it or keep it?)
People would say that Naruto is nowhere as tallented as Yondaime. But what if he had a normal youth where he had not to do all those pranks to get attention? And that seal that disturbed him in his use of his own chakra? When Jiraya get him that seal out of him, he went from hardly walking on the water to do it like naturally... And his abilities without using the Kyuubi's chakra have grown very fast.
Plot wise what is the most interresting:
a- "I am your father" thing if Yondaime is still alive somehow.
b- "You are Yondaime's son, sorry for never telling you this"
c- Naruto was Yondaime, and he have to deal with it.
d- He's really a random baby whose parents are irrevelant to the story
e- His parents are gonna be important characters that we don't know yet

[mangekyuo_itachi]

its obvious, da demon was to strong to just seal into sumfink dat had no chakra left so he chose a baby to seal it into by sacrificing himself but it bakfired since da fox was still way 2 strong

[theoneandonly]

better question is why didn't the fourth just kill the damn demon instead of sealing him.
he couldn't. that Kyuubi had the ultimate chakra and knew how to use it too

[lekki]

When the Sarubito used the 4th sealing justu on Orochimaru he sealed Oros arms to his own stomach, right?
Whats really strange about the 4th sealing the demonfox is that he is said to have put it in a babys stomach(naruto). Did he carry baby Naruto with him to the fight? No way if you ask me. But its not like you can seal something inside of you and then wander back to find a newborn baby. Then take the thing u sealed and put it into the baby.

You can ask yourself alot of questions here.

Did the forth have a plan? If he wanted to kill the kyuubi he could just do it by sealing it to him self. They would both go to hell and fight for eternity. He must have wanted for someone to use the power of the kyuubi for good and for protecting Konoha.

Naruto could not have been just anyone. I mean, its not like the 4th is evil. He must have put the Kyuubi inside someone he cared for and felt responsible for. He wouldnt just seal it into the first baby he saw. Naruto is special to the Forth, no doubt about it. Could be his son....or maby even himself????(i dont think so but..). The 4th also wanted the people of Konoha to look at Naruto as a hero.

Jirayia, the Demonfox and the big boss Toad all said that Naruto reminds them alot of the 4th. I think that Jirayia would know if Naruto was the Forth. He knows almoast everything. And he defenetly knows who narutos dad is. But Jirayia doesnt think that Naruto is the forth..he just think they are similar.

What drives me mad is that I cant figure out how the hell someone can seal something into someone else. The 4th was F.A.S.T but...i dont think speed has anything to do with him sealing something to someone else. Maby the 4th was better with just that sealing jutsu than Sarubito. I mean, the 4th teached Sarubito that jutsu.
Maby Sarubito could seal the 1st, 2nd and Oros arms into someone else to...but there was nobody near just then. And...he probably didnt want to seal them into someone else.

From all this, I really think that Naruto is Yondaime´s son. Or at least family related...

Man negative rep points for you. You just plagarized one of my posts on another thread. Maybe you didn't do it intentionally but you did. I know this cause you even replied to that post before this thread came up.

[Hyuuga-Sama]

1. You cant destroy something made of pure chakra. And besides, Killing Kyuubi is just delaying the disaster...:notrust

2. Who knows, maybe Yondaime bartered with the Death God to have Kyuubi placed into another container. Ever wondered why Naruto didn't even have a mother? Maybe Yondaime and his wife (assuming the Naruto is Yondaime's son theory is true) sacrificed theirselves to move the seal. A sort of barter if you will, 2 souls for a different effect..

[8thGateGai]

there so many possiblities to who Naruto is
1) 4th Son
2) 4th Reincarnate
3) Just happen to look like the 4th
4) could look like the 4th because his soul is also inside Naruto

Anything possible I guess we wont know anything about this till the end of the Series.

[anle]

What aout the 4th cousin.

[kisame243]

naruto resembles the 4th alot. The hair eyes etc. and what the ppl said the 4th would take a random baby to seal kyuubi in. And besides during the fight with itchai. He quoted: naruto is the 4ths legacy. Also when jirayia was training naruto to unleash kyuubi. he pushed him into a watery cliff. and he said " forgive me fourth. ALso they have the same blood type.

[4th's Legacy]

Remember when 3rd Hokage used Yondaime's Shiki Fuujin in the battle against Orochimaru? Sandaime sealed the souls of the 1st and 2nd Hokage's in KB's. This can be done but the user of the jutsu still loses his life. This jutsu is used to extract the souls in the exchange of the user's life.

This has never been stated in saying that the Death God also demands the soul of the extracted only the soul of the user. So maybe during the 4th's battle against Kyuubi he just extracted Kyuubi's soul into Naruto and in turn lost his own life to complete the jutsu and apease the Death God. Someone did mention that Yondaime wanted people to look to Naruto as a hero. Maybe Naruto is his son or atleast someone viewed as precious to him.

It seems to me if Yondaime was Naruto's father he knew he was gonna sacrafice his life and in doin so giving Naruto the gift as being a hero to the people. What better way to insure the safety of your child than making him a hero. Although it seems to have backfired and Naruto was treated as the opposite. But that did not stop Naruto from acting like a hero with a determined good heart.

[Kamui the Azrael]

maybe there is no relation, dont get me wrong i want there to be but naruto looked exactly like tsuandeskid bro. so who knows what has happened lets just be patient.

[Dark Uchiha]

seem like a ritual was done with naruto also, candles n shit placed around him

[Masanari]

I dont think anyone can kill the Kyuubi in a normal fight..i think the 4th sealed him because there wasnt any other way to get rid of him.

yes shodaime could....

[coriander]

yes shodaime could....

...could supress the kyuubi's chakra yes. but kill...hm, if he could then maybe something far more terrible might happen if he kills the kyuubi that's why Shodai didn't. :noworry

[Masanari]

ya exactly, so this would explain alot of things then.

[bambinoski]

When the Sarubito used the 4th sealing justu on Orochimaru he sealed Oros arms to his own stomach, right?
Whats really strange about the 4th sealing the demonfox is that he is said to have put it in a babys stomach(naruto). Did he carry baby Naruto with him to the fight? No way if you ask me. But its not like you can seal something inside of you and then wander back to find a newborn baby. Then take the thing u sealed and put it into the baby.

You can ask yourself alot of questions here.

Did the forth have a plan? If he wanted to kill the kyuubi he could just do it by sealing it to him self. They would both go to hell and fight for eternity. He must have wanted for someone to use the power of the kyuubi for good and for protecting Konoha.

Naruto could not have been just anyone. I mean, its not like the 4th is evil. He must have put the Kyuubi inside someone he cared for and felt responsible for. He wouldnt just seal it into the first baby he saw. Naruto is special to the Forth, no doubt about it. Could be his son....or maby even himself????(i dont think so but..). The 4th also wanted the people of Konoha to look at Naruto as a hero.

Jirayia, the Demonfox and the big boss Toad all said that Naruto reminds them alot of the 4th. I think that Jirayia would know if Naruto was the Forth. He knows almoast everything. And he defenetly knows who narutos dad is. But Jirayia doesnt think that Naruto is the forth..he just think they are similar.

What drives me mad is that I cant figure out how the hell someone can seal something into someone else. The 4th was F.A.S.T but...i dont think speed has anything to do with him sealing something to someone else. Maby the 4th was better with just that sealing jutsu than Sarubito. I mean, the 4th teached Sarubito that jutsu.
Maby Sarubito could seal the 1st, 2nd and Oros arms into someone else to...but there was nobody near just then. And...he probably didnt want to seal them into someone else.

From all this, I really think that Naruto is Yondaime´s son. Or at least family related...

Yeah you have a point there... Naruto didnt die after the kyuubii is sealed in his body... if naruto dies.. the kyubii will die too right? That is why the 9 tailed bijuu is protecting naruto (sharing and giving naruto his power). The 4th hokage doesnt want the kyuubi to die because he thinks that there is more evil power that will destroy konoha or the world.... that is why he sealed the kyubii to naruto, 4th dies and the baby naruto didnt die (made a special seal in narutos belly), and now Naruto will wield his power with the 9 tails and save the WORLD yeeeehaaaaa...

[Karma Thief]

Yondaime most likely sealed Kyuubi in Naruto because there was no way he could have defeated Kyuubi. Kyuubi was completely unsealed at the time so he was incomparable to Chunnin Exam Shukaku and the recent Nibi and Sanbi which are also Jinchuuriki mediated Bijuu. Even KN4 was on par or better than Orochimaru, Yondaime's principal opponent for the job. Imagine a Bijuu with five more tails and not bound to a human. There was no way Yondaime could have defeated it so he sealed Kyuubi.

Sandaime and Yondaime did not use the same seal. Sandiame used Shika Fuuin and sealed Orochimaru's arms but Yondaime coule have used another Fuuin to seal chakra Kyuubi into another person. They both did use the same Shinigami summon which requires the life of the user as a sacrifice.

[NVZBlity]

for me, i love to see the resemblence between naruto and yondaime, but i hate to think that they might be family related. that would make impression that blood is everything. i want to think that naruto can be a respected ninja because his own hardwork, not because he shared the same genetic code with yondaime.

Although I agree with you, I think having Naruto earn respect all on his own merits and hard work went out the door when he began using kyuubi chakra.

[Masanari]

Although I agree with you, I think having Naruto earn respect all on his own merits and hard work went out the door when he began using kyuubi chakra.

no because he has to control the chakra so the damn thing does not take over him.

[NVZBlity]

no because he has to control the chakra so the damn thing does not take over him.

You could make the same argument for the sharingan/bloodlines. It takes hard work to learn to use bloodlines well, but the fact remains, Sasuke has an innate advantage by having the sharingan; Naruto has the kyuubi. Whether it is an advantage or disadvantage depends on the effort that the user puts into it.

It would be truly on his own merits if Naruto was like Sakura: no bloodlines, no bijuu chakra. Could he have defeated Haku/Shukaku/Oro without kyuubi? Probably not, but we won't know since it was largely thanks to the kyuubi.

[Pinkaugust]

funny fact, every other jinchuuriki seem to have alot more control of their bijuu than naruto. or is it because his has many more tails that he cannot release it all at once like the others?

Gaara actually used a jutsu to combine with shukaku, in that ball of sand he made to kill sasuke, but he failed when sasuke got him with chidori...

Maybe Naruto could release more of kyuubi with a ritual, too?

[donkee]

I thought I read somewhere, makes more sense to me anyway, that the bijuu had to be sealed into an unborn baby. As in, still in the womb. Hence the mother having to die in birth and such.

This applies it to Gaara's story, and not on the record, but why Naruto's mother isnt around. I think it brings more conflict to the Yondaime being Naruto's father theory, too. Since he had to not only give up his life and curse his baby, he had to commit to killing his wife. Sounds a bit twisted but it made sense to me.

[Goodfellow]

Personnonaly I think that shiki fujin or whatever seem to be a pretty lose deal. For instance, sandaime sealed himself with two kages and a pair fo hands =/
So, when you summon the death god, you probably make some kind of deal.

[hollow9]

I thought I read somewhere, makes more sense to me anyway, that the bijuu had to be sealed into an unborn baby. As in, still in the womb. Hence the mother having to die in birth and such.

This applies it to Gaara's story, and not on the record, but why Naruto's mother isnt around. I think it brings more conflict to the Yondaime being Naruto's father theory, too. Since he had to not only give up his life and curse his baby, he had to commit to killing his wife. Sounds a bit twisted but it made sense to me.

i've been thinking about that maybe the 4th had a way to redirect whos soul
was taken so instead of the mother's life being taken his was . I have more to this but i don't feel like adding any more at the moment.

PS sorry if someone already stated this idea.

[goodlight]

<.< obvisouly the 4th was realy a woman...and was pregers with nartuo <.<

:p

[Superb Herb]

He sealed him by using Hirashin and teleporting to naruto and then placing him in there.

[comfortablynumb]

Good points, but I just don't agree :)

True: the similarities are there. But that is all that most of the people posting to support the theory that the 4th is Naruto's father have, and I don't think that it's enough. If people knew that Naruto was the son of the 4th, why would they hide that from him? Certainly everyone acknowledges that the 4th saved the village, but why take revenge on Naruto? Just because he has the Kyuubi sealed inside him? I don't know, I think there would still be villagers with the common sense to treat Naruto with some respect. (heck, even Konohamaru was called "young master" by Ebisu) :)




I am a supporter of the reincarnation theory so my answer to this particular question is as follows:

The reason for nobody treating like the fourth is because nobody knows that he is. Sarutobi most likely did but he is dead now. I think that in order to protect the fourth from his enemies and not make him a target all of his life it was said that the fourth died and that naruto had been sealed with the kyuubi.

also to those who keep on pointing out the scene where baby naruto is surrounded by candles, thats not even in the manga... so its prob. not of any significance and BTW he could have been place there well after the battle and the sealing took place you have no way to measure the time between that and the battle scene.

[comfortablynumb]

funny fact, every other jinchuuriki seem to have alot more control of their bijuu than naruto. or is it because his has many more tails that he cannot release it all at once like the others?

Gaara actually used a jutsu to combine with shukaku, in that ball of sand he made to kill sasuke, but he failed when sasuke got him with chidori...

Maybe Naruto could release more of kyuubi with a ritual, too?

I dunno... i guess its because of what you said the kyuubi is much more powerful. So its likely that even while releasing less of his full potential hes prob. on about the same level as someone else at their max. idunno though and frankly i think naruto's use of the kyuubi has been excessive recntly he really should work on his own pwers. after all it does shorten his life span each time he uses 2-3 tails...

[Zetsu]

when yondaime fight the kyuubi we saw a white flash could he transfer to another place and seal it in naruto, believe me the flash is the answer.

[amanoginji]

an idea i have thought of that could explain the difference between the 3rd's and 4th's is there is none :-O ..the sealing is incomplete in naruto because it cannot be completed kyuubi is just to powerful.
let me explain.
4th does sealing, into himself he cannot harness all the power of the kyuubi so he seals himself inside naruto.. so the seal is a double seal sealing himself and sealing the kyuubi inside naruto :-O.. and the death god waits..
which if true somewhere inside naruto is the 4th's mind (maybe inside the gate with the fox, which might cause you to say "no the fox woulda spotted him" but thats not true since the fox is probably preoccupied with getting out and not looking at his cage.)

or ive also thought that since the soul of the one being sealed and the soul of the sealer are to be locked together to battle for eternity and as seeing how the kyuubi could be to powerful to actually pull into the deathgod maybe the 4th locked him into naruto (like the 3rd couldnt pull in oro) but since they are forever interweaved the 4th is there and if the fox gets released out will pop the 4th.. which would be a huge suprize if akatsuki gets ahold of naruto and tries to extract the kyuubi.

just figured its a different direction than what other people normally say

[victor101943]

Its because , that'd mean a Jink for the Village meaning future Konoha manpower.

[ItsMrJedi]

When the Sarubito used the 4th sealing justu on Orochimaru he sealed Oros arms to his own stomach, right?
Whats really strange about the 4th sealing the demonfox is that he is said to have put it in a babys stomach(naruto). Did he carry baby Naruto with him to the fight? No way if you ask me. But its not like you can seal something inside of you and then wander back to find a newborn baby. Then take the thing u sealed and put it into the baby.

He fought the Kyuubi, and when the sealing process was ready he teleported Naruto (in an instant) and sealed it inside him. He had probably chosen Naruto before he decided to fight Kyuubi.


Did the forth have a plan? If he wanted to kill the kyuubi he could just do it by sealing it to him self. They would both go to hell and fight for eternity. He must have wanted for someone to use the power of the kyuubi for good and for protecting Konoha.

His plan was probably:
Fight Kyuubi and see how strong he is -> if he can defeat him, then nothing is wrong, otherwise seal it inside Naruto (as a gift to Konoha to use its power in the future to protect Konoha).


Naruto could not have been just anyone. I mean, its not like the 4th is evil. He must have put the Kyuubi inside someone he cared for and felt responsible for. He wouldnt just seal it into the first baby he saw. Naruto is special to the Forth, no doubt about it. Could be his son....or maby even himself????(i dont think so but..). The 4th also wanted the people of Konoha to look at Naruto as a hero.

Naruto is probably his son or an orphan. I dont think that anyone else in Konoha would sacrifice his new born child to let the Kyuubi be sealed inside him. Yondaime either took his own or relative's (newly born) son, or an (newly born) orphan. But considering the physical resememblance of Naruto with Yondaim, I think that Naruto is a relative of him.


Jirayia, the Demonfox and the big boss Toad all said that Naruto reminds them alot of the 4th. I think that Jirayia would know if Naruto was the Forth. He knows almoast everything. And he defenetly knows who narutos dad is. But Jirayia doesnt think that Naruto is the forth..he just think they are similar.


I support the idea, that Naruto is NOT Yondaime (in whatever form). Also read the manga well, and you will see that it's impossible that Naruto is Yondaime.


What drives me mad is that I cant figure out how the hell someone can seal something into someone else. The 4th was F.A.S.T but...i dont think speed has anything to do with him sealing something to someone else. Maby the 4th was better with just that sealing jutsu than Sarubito. I mean, the 4th teached Sarubito that jutsu.
Maby Sarubito could seal the 1st, 2nd and Oros arms into someone else to...but there was nobody near just then. And...he probably didnt want to seal them into someone else.

From all this, I really think that Naruto is Yondaime´s son. Or at least family related...

The sealing contract just says that the sealer dies after he has used the jutsu, by giving his soul to the Shinigami. It doesn't say anything that the sealer must seal the other soul to his own body.

Just like I said, Yondaime teleported Naruto to the battle scene and sealed it inside him (in an instant). This is the only logical explaination. If you watch the scene carefully, you dont see Yondaime carrying Naruto on Gamabunta, so somehow he brought Naruto there and sealed Kyuubi inside him.

[Spiral-Kage]

Why did Yondy seal the Kyubi in Naruto? Because without a Jin. the village was in jeopardy.

So far in the series five Jin. have been mentioned. Naruto, Gaara, and Yugito have been seen and Deidara reveals that the other two biju Akatsuki have came from “loathsome and pitiful” creatures hardly fit to be called human, that the villages rejoiced at having them taken away. Five Jin., five great shinobi villages. We don’t know how many of the other villages had Jin. before Naruto but it was probably enough that Yondy felt its looming threat. If an enemy village attacked with its Jinchuuriki and biju, Konoha might still survive and win the fight but the losses would still be devastating. To make sure the village was protected Yondy gave it Naruto. Even the presence of the king of biju trapped in a Jin. would be enough to make the other villages reconsider.

The Jin. are like nuclear weapons. We all have the explosives but if launched it’s bye bye world.

[Gohan]

To me i think Naruto is a clone. Yamato was introduced so that we wouldn't be like "wtf all of a sudden their a DNA clones in Naruto".

His affinity with Kage-bushin is a hint to us that their is a relation between him and clones. The fact that he is so similiar to the 4th and the fact that noone in their ourright mind would take a new born baby to the battlefield to seal it helps support this. I mean Naruto was probably designed for fighting, thus his huge chakra and never give-up soldier like capabilities. (Remember pills were suppose to give you this, well Naruto just has it in his genes due to the DNA of the best fighter but mostly it came from Yondaime).

This also explains why he has no parents or we have not seen any. The only thing that doesn't support this theory is where did he get his umbilical cord from?

[drunk kitsune]

one thing ive always wondered with the events surrounding the 4th sealing the kybui into naruto is whether or not it was actually the same technique the 3rd used or if it was a different technique with the same result. sandaime stated that in order to use shiki fujin, the user had to sacrifice their soul to the death god. but during the oro/3rd fight when oro summoned the first and second, he also attempted to summon (presumably) the 4th (i say presumably because there was nothing conclusive to say it was the 4th, and i don't think they ever showed enough of the coffin to see the kanji on it, at least in the manga). if you assume that it was the 4th, then would oro actually be able to summon a soul that had been eaten by death god?

[Tyrannos]

Be honest, I think Kishi should elaborate on the death god a little more. It could be the Death's god stomach is part of hell, or seperate. So it could be possible to bring back a soul.

Kinda disturbs me that all the Hokage's souls are inside the Death god.

[AznEnigma69]

one thing ive always wondered with the events surrounding the 4th sealing the kybui into naruto is whether or not it was actually the same technique the 3rd used or if it was a different technique with the same result. sandaime stated that in order to use shiki fujin, the user had to sacrifice their soul to the death god. but during the oro/3rd fight when oro summoned the first and second, he also attempted to summon (presumably) the 4th (i say presumably because there was nothing conclusive to say it was the 4th, and i don't think they ever showed enough of the coffin to see the kanji on it, at least in the manga). if you assume that it was the 4th, then would oro actually be able to summon a soul that had been eaten by death god?


I think it would be kinda same but mega size. I found this interesting picture between how yondaime seal the kyubii and the tree of life of Taoism.

The tree of life pic. credit to Gentz and Naruto-world

http://home.comcast.net/~c_hamman/Treeoflife0.gif

http://www.naruto-world.com/illustration/naruto-illustration-09.jpg


ps: Sorry, if i revive this thread

[Goodfellow]

I think it's likly that you make an "agreement" with the Death God. A bargin with the devil so to say^^

[rorykage]

When the Sarubito used the 4th sealing justu on Orochimaru he sealed Oros arms to his own stomach, right?
Whats really strange about the 4th sealing the demonfox is that he is said to have put it in a babys stomach(naruto). Did he carry baby Naruto with him to the fight? No way if you ask me. But its not like you can seal something inside of you and then wander back to find a newborn baby. Then take the thing u sealed and put it into the baby.

You can ask yourself alot of questions here.

Did the forth have a plan? If he wanted to kill the kyuubi he could just do it by sealing it to him self. They would both go to hell and fight for eternity. He must have wanted for someone to use the power of the kyuubi for good and for protecting Konoha.

Naruto could not have been just anyone. I mean, its not like the 4th is evil. He must have put the Kyuubi inside someone he cared for and felt responsible for. He wouldnt just seal it into the first baby he saw. Naruto is special to the Forth, no doubt about it. Could be his son....or maby even himself????(i dont think so but..). The 4th also wanted the people of Konoha to look at Naruto as a hero.

Jirayia, the Demonfox and the big boss Toad all said that Naruto reminds them alot of the 4th. I think that Jirayia would know if Naruto was the Forth. He knows almoast everything. And he defenetly knows who narutos dad is. But Jirayia doesnt think that Naruto is the forth..he just think they are similar.

What drives me mad is that I cant figure out how the hell someone can seal something into someone else. The 4th was F.A.S.T but...i dont think speed has anything to do with him sealing something to someone else. Maby the 4th was better with just that sealing jutsu than Sarubito. I mean, the 4th teached Sarubito that jutsu.
Maby Sarubito could seal the 1st, 2nd and Oros arms into someone else to...but there was nobody near just then. And...he probably didnt want to seal them into someone else.

From all this, I really think that Naruto is Yondaime´s son. Or at least family related...

really wanted to respond to this so i'm not reading all the other pages of posts. sorry if someone said this already.

The death god jutsu seems to channel the death god through one's self (think odf when we saw the death god's hand reach out from sandaime's stomach). if the fourth used the technique on the kyuubi, he waould reach into the kyuubi, and pulled out it's soul, right? if there is no soul in the body, then the body dies, right? as soon as the kyyubi soul was removed, the physical kyuubi body left behind posed no threat, right? at this point, the 4th didn't necessarily pull the soul into himself, but rather concentrated his power to keep the soul outside of himself, in the irong grip of the death god. now it's just a matter of walking over (or instant transmissioning over) to the newborn naruto, and pushing the soul of kyuubi into the baby, and sealing it, all before he submitted his own soul to appease the death god. There is nothing in the series to say that as soon as a soul is removed that it must be sealed that second, if the soul is removed from the body, then the body is no longer a danger to anyone, so at that point the 4th could take his time and go seal kyuubi.

now, onto why he put it into naruto. to most people of logic, the 4th is oviously naruto's father (not a reincarnation, because that would over complicate naruto's character), and sandaime said that the 4th wanted naruto to be viewed as a hero. beyond these facts i think there is an obvious, underlying reason for sealing the kyuubi into naruto. we don't know what happened to naruto's mother, but i think it's safe to assume that she died, either during childbirth or during the kyuubi attack, so naruto would have been left alone in the world, right? now the fox is known for being clever (how naruto comes up with his instinctual, unpredictable battle strategies), and for being a survivor (we all know the old saying about a cornered fox). Jiraiya comments on how the seal system was set up to protect naruto. so, now i think it's plain to see that the kyuubi was sealed in naruto because it was the best way for a father to ensure the safety and survival of his son, in his absence.

i think i covered everything.

[Akatsuki Leader Uzimaki]

it says that yondaime to a newborn baby into battle with him

[AoiEtoile]

but the question still remains: how the heck did he seal kyuubi into Naruto?
was he carrying baby Naruto with him in the battlefield?
how can ANY ninja (including Naruto's parents if you believe that Naruto is not the 4th's son) be stupid enough to bring a baby to the battlefield in the first place?
or maybe the 4th already knew what he was supposed to do to Kyuubi, and just brought any random baby (poor Naruto) to seal Kyuubi in...

Well, one thing is for sure... there is obisously a connection between Naruto and the 4th...

I believe that the 4th is father of naruto, but you are right to say that "why would he do it" This is yet another thing we are going to have to wait for!!!

[AznEnigma69]

^ the question isn't why he do it but if he have a choice between his son and the villager son, Who should he takes to be the container of kyubii?

[The_Unforgiven]

better question is why didn't the fourth just kill the damn demon instead of sealing him.

Because, in japanese myths, the kuubi is immortal, and has infinite power. So, yondaime sealing it away was actually the best choice.

[Uzimaki-san]

Carrying a baby onto the battlefield? Whats wrong with you people?
Remember one of the first scenes? Naruto as a baby surrounded by candles? This suggests the placement of the Kyubii into Naruto was a ceremony, or a big sealing jutsu instead of the instant transfer on the battlefield.
Also, the only Shika fujjin no jutsu we've witnessed was the 3rds. Now, What we havn't considered is that when the soul is taken and sealed, the matter (i.e Orochimau's arms) simply disappears, which it quite clearly doesn't, it goes purple and inanimate. In which case, where is the huge inanimate, purple kyubbi??? If its around, Sarutobi said there is a one in a million chance that Naruto's seal can be broken. Well, you know manga and its "one in a millions" (curse seal - 1 in 10 chnace you'll die...who's died?), if the body is around, could there be a chance that Kyubbi could return???? I'm scaring myself....
WTF???????????