View Full Version : is Ichigo ahead of the Bankai pack?
Furanko_kun
09-07-2006, 08:46 PM
Has it been explained if Ichigo is ahead of the bankai curve by "merging" with his blade, no one else can do this as far as ive seen. Most of the other shinigami have connected with their bankai but not near this deeply. Could it be he's bypassed the regular special technique for the bankai and moved into total immersion with his blade that hasn't been obtained by the rest. I think this may be the key for a Byakuya win against Kariya (unless I'm very wrong).
caust1c
09-08-2006, 08:56 AM
you mean you think byakuya should merge with his zanpaktou, in a filler arc, to defeat a filler character?
hmm... nah.
Mukuro
09-08-2006, 09:22 AM
Ichigo merging with his zanpakutou is just the way his bankai works. That's what I believe.
HugeGuy
09-08-2006, 10:07 AM
Merging? What merging? He acquire Zangetsu's cloak, yes but I don't remember anything about merging.
Furanko_kun
09-08-2006, 10:16 AM
Merging? What merging? He acquire Zangetsu's cloak, yes but I don't remember anything about merging.
That is really funny, so you think Ichigo gets his power from Zangetsu's clothes. they dont share any kind of deeper connection or bond aside from a rippy looking shirt and a new sword?
HugeGuy
09-08-2006, 10:32 AM
That is really funny, so you think Ichigo gets his power from Zangetsu's clothes. they dont share any kind of deeper connection or bond aside from a rippy looking shirt and a new sword?
I think we misunderstood each other. I thought you got the idea that their souls merged because Ichigo got a new cloak and resembles Zangetsu alot.
But he attained bankai by beating Zangetsu into submission. That was the whole purpose of Urahara's 3 day bankai training. There was no indication that their souls merged when going bankai. And what led you to think that Ichigo's relationship with his zanpakutou is deeper than the rest of the shinigamis?
Furanko_kun
09-08-2006, 10:52 AM
when i saw the very last connection between zangetsu and Ichigo he impales himself on the blade and it from the viewpoint i had, merges with him (this takes place in the battle with Kariya ). What I gathered from the talking they do Zangetsu is providing his essence to ichigo. All the other Shinigami have external attacks or change the physical characteristics of the blade for special attacks, never themselves. Ichigo has a boost in his abilities becuase of zangetsu not just in his zanpakutou . Also I dont think Ichigo beat zangetsu into submission, I believe he proved himself to Zangetsu that he is strong enough physically and mentally to use zangetsu's power.
Mukuro
09-08-2006, 10:58 AM
Merging? What merging? He acquire Zangetsu's cloak, yes but I don't remember anything about merging.You must've misunderstood me. You know how the Zanpakutoh does something when a shinigami uses bankai? What happens to the Zangetsu Zanpakutoh? Effectively it merges with Ichigo to give him the new look and new sword + the speed upgrades, etc.
rocklee1234
09-08-2006, 11:06 AM
something tells me that maybe its just the new breed. i mean we got hitsuguya whos whole back and arm become one with hyournmaru. then you got renji he gains a babooon skull and necklace from his bankai. i think maybe kubo-san did this just to make the bankai look more bad arse than anything else.
Kisame
09-08-2006, 11:09 AM
Renji gains clothes as well.
Furanko_kun
09-08-2006, 11:16 AM
something tells me that maybe its just the new breed. i mean we got hitsuguya whos whole back and arm become one with hyournmaru. then you got renji he gains a babooon skull and necklace from his bankai. i think maybe kubo-san did this just to make the bankai look more bad arse than anything else.
I appreciate you actually answering my question, and I agree with your statement. You are in fact not a turd.
eleanor
09-08-2006, 03:28 PM
Merging? I thought all zanpakutos are one with their owners. The manisfestation of them like that Baboon and Zangetsu man actually lives inside of them. And Ichigo having a change of clothes and sword is just how his Bankai looks like like how Renji had some coat on and Hitsugaya has an extra tail and a pair of wings.
Just because people like Byakuya doesn't have a change of clothes doesn't mean they're unable to merge with his zanpakuto. In fact, I believe Byakuya's the only one so far that has complete mastery over his Bankai (what's with those 3 stages). This means that his affinity with his zanpakuto is very strong.
Anyway, what rocklee said could be true as well. It's all just KT's way of showing us the badassness of Bankai.
Insipidipity
09-08-2006, 03:41 PM
when i saw the very last connection between zangetsu and Ichigo he impales himself on the blade and it from the viewpoint i had, merges with him (this takes place in the battle with Kariya ). What I gathered from the talking they do Zangetsu is providing his essence to ichigo. All the other Shinigami have external attacks or change the physical characteristics of the blade for special attacks, never themselves. Ichigo has a boost in his abilities becuase of zangetsu not just in his zanpakutou . Also I dont think Ichigo beat zangetsu into submission, I believe he proved himself to Zangetsu that he is strong enough physically and mentally to use zangetsu's power.
That's just symbolism for transferring power. It directly paralleled Rukia doing it to Ichigo. Zangetsu is providing his power, his essence has always been inside, but he's not giving it any more directly than that.
The power was in the blade, it changed his speed because his power was compressed into the blade which somehow lets him use it for speed(I would've figured it'd be for cutting power but if thats what Kubo wants, thats what he gets). The reiatsu increase from Bankai and compressed sword let him use his excess reiatsu to enhance his own abilities.
Furanko_kun
09-08-2006, 03:51 PM
That's just symbolism for transferring power. It directly paralleled Rukia doing it to Ichigo. Zangetsu is providing his power, his essence has always been inside, but he's not giving it any more directly than that.
The power was in the blade, it changed his speed because his power was compressed into the blade which somehow lets him use it for speed(I would've figured it'd be for cutting power but if thats what Kubo wants, thats what he gets). The reiatsu increase from Bankai and compressed sword let him use his excess reiatsu to enhance his own abilities.
thank you, that was an excellent response. I feel like I've gained some knowledge.
Orofan
09-08-2006, 04:03 PM
Yes this is a great topic, post on.
badaudio
09-08-2006, 04:27 PM
In the filler arc zangetsu says, bankai is the ulitimate reslove for you to feel pain together with your blade. so make what you will of it.
mecca
09-08-2006, 07:56 PM
I believe they all merge but some show there merge on the outside more than others. Like Ichigo, Renji, Hitsuguya etc. But I think Ichigo's connection with Zangetsu is stronger then most other characters with there Zanpakutos. Ive noticed that a lot of Shinigami's know the name of there Zanpakuto but don't really know there Zanpakuto like Ichigo knows his. I think that is one of the key reasons that puts Ichigo on top is his bond with Zangetsu.
CrAYoN_EaTeR
09-19-2006, 04:13 AM
Just because we havnt seen anyone other then Ichigo and Renji talk to their Zanpakuto doesnt mean they dont have a good relationship with it. They i way i see it is they should have a better understanding of them because they have had what hundreds of years to get to know them and understand them, when Ichigo has had what a year or two to get to know Zangetsu.
I.P. Standing
09-19-2006, 06:47 AM
when i saw the very last connection between zangetsu and Ichigo he impales himself on the blade and it from the viewpoint i had, merges with him (this takes place in the battle with Kariya ). What I gathered from the talking they do Zangetsu is providing his essence to ichigo. All the other Shinigami have external attacks or change the physical characteristics of the blade for special attacks, never themselves. Ichigo has a boost in his abilities becuase of zangetsu not just in his zanpakutou........Renji and Hitsugaya both gain additions to their wardrobe, in addition to bankai abilities that are just increased shikai.....:oh
Also I dont think Ichigo beat zangetsu into submission, I believe he proved himself to Zangetsu that he is strong enough physically and mentally to use zangetsu's power.ROFL, Kubo and the databook are wrong!
So you're ignoring blatant facts that Yoruichi stated what was necessary to complete the bankai training?
not even close to mastering his bankai yet...he needs to train under it so he can use it to its fullest. He's pretty good with it though, even with minimal training.
Kaminari
09-20-2006, 02:01 PM
If Byakuya was to "merge" with Senbonzakura he would become a flower. I don't want that.
Kribaby
09-20-2006, 02:21 PM
If Byakuya was to "merge" with Senbonzakura he would become a flower. I don't want that.
I smell photoshop :laugh
Also, I may be mixing canon material with fanart in the back of my head, but haven't we seen Renji 'materialize' the spirit of Zabimaru without using Urahara's stab-me-and-I'll-pull-Zangetsu-out-of-you tool? If I'm not mistaken (which I probably am...), wouldn't that make Renji's connection with Zabimaru greater than Ichigo's with Zangetsu?
After all, Ichigo hasn't been with Zangetsu in a literal sense for all that long. In fact, for a healthy chunk of his shinigami career, he's had Rukia's zanpakutou (judging by the hilt and handguard seen before she stabbed him) strapped to his back, not Zangetsu. On top of that, the only time he's even tried to learn something from Zangetsu was when he was fighting Kenpachi. Even then, though, it was almost as if he was forced to, or else he'd be defeated. During bankai training, it was do or die for Ichigo, so I can hardly call that willingly connecting with his zanpakutou.
Ichigo has a lot of catching up to do if he wishes to be in touch with his zanpakutou on the same level as people who have known and fought along side theirs for 10s and 100s of times longer than he's been alive.
Nihongofreak
09-20-2006, 07:41 PM
I smell photoshop :laugh
Also, I may be mixing canon material with fanart in the back of my head, but haven't we seen Renji 'materialize' the spirit of Zabimaru without using Urahara's stab-me-and-I'll-pull-Zangetsu-out-of-you tool? If I'm not mistaken (which I probably am...), wouldn't that make Renji's connection with Zabimaru greater than Ichigo's with Zangetsu?
im not sure about the connection part but renji can materialize zabimaru at will, see chapter 133 pg 15
Shunsuii
09-20-2006, 08:50 PM
I guess he just gets his clothing...?
They have not "merged" his outfit simply changed. I mean look at Renji, his outfit changes also, but he has not "merged" with his sword.
They have not "merged" his outfit simply changed. I mean look at Renji, his outfit changes also, but he has not "merged" with his sword.
Byakuga's outfit doesn't change, Tousen's doesn't change, Hitsugaya's doesn't change...what i'm gettin at is that maybe this "merged" type of look is for those new to bankai(aka 1st stage bankai)...but I couldn't tell if Ikkaku changed his outfit as well.
Byakuga's outfit doesn't change, Tousen's doesn't change, Hitsugaya's doesn't change...what i'm gettin at is that maybe this "merged" type of look is for those new to bankai(aka 1st stage bankai)...but I couldn't tell if Ikkaku changed his outfit as well.
Wouldnt that put him behind the pack instead of ahead of it then? :huh
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