Questions for Muslims...has the Koran been corrupted?

[Iruka-Senpai]

I've been reading and I've been beginning to think that modern Islamic religions may have the Koran a little bit wrong. After reading the Koran and some historical evidence, I've come to three conclusions:
1. There was a Prophet named Muhammad who did recieve revelations
2. Muhammad had great love and respect for Christians and called them,"People of the Book." He believed the Gospel was true.
3. Muhammad did not believe God was limited to one religion
4. Some parts of the Koran seem to contradict previous chapters and Muhammad's own character.
My questions are:
1. Has the Koran been corrupted or did Muhammad merely misunderstand the Gospels?
2. Have Muslims misinterpreted the Koran?
3. If Muhammad misunderstood the Gospels, is there anyway a Muslim could still keep his/her respect for Muhammad.

[Sakuragi]

Sorry, but what do you mean by "did Muhammad misinterpret the Gospels"? I don't recall him ever being exposed to them, since he could not read or write.

And regarding point four, were you reading the english version of the Quran, with no footnotes, or historical explanations on it? Because if you were, then yes, you will see many "contradictions", but in the original, Arabic version, there aren't any.

Also, "The People of the Book" includes Jews, I hope you are aware of that. For your first question, the Quran has never been changed, or altered with even a dot.

[Iruka-Senpai]

Well, it's just that the Gospels around the time of Muhammad were the same as today, weren't they? Nowhere in the Koran does it state that they were corrupted. If Muhammad had respect for the Christians and the first Christians who met him believed in his revelations without leaving the Christian religion, then doesn't that mean something seems wrong with the relationship of the Muslims and Christians today.

The main difference between Muslims and Christians is their views of Jesus. The Koran says that Jesus is merely a divine slave and messenger while Christians believe he is a manifestation of God(i.e. son of God). If Koran hasn't been changed, then that means that the Muslims merely misunderstood the Christians(not the Gospels), thinking that they supported God as a physical being who needed a mate.:huh

[Sakuragi]

Alright, one thing to note is that the Bible was no where near being translated to Arabic during that time. Also note, that there were no Christains around arabia to have been able to communicate to Arabs about the Gospels.

Anyway, the reason the Prophet Muhammad and us Muslims respect Christians and Jews is because of their belief and acceptance of God. That is why in our eyes, they are way better than those who flat out reject their Creator.

And please re-read teh Quran, preferably a different copy, becuase I think that the Quran does say that teh original Gospel given to Jesus was corrupted by humans. (Edit: don't take my word for this, do your own research, thanks) The Quran also rejects the Christian theology of the Trinity, God having partners, etc. Also, the Quran clearly states that to pray to anyone other than God for salvation, like Jesus for Christains, is wrong.

But I do see whereyou are going with this topic. Yes, people should try to keep in mind that one sentence in the Quran, among many others, that states to put aside the differences, we both believe in One God, whatever we differ in will be cleared up on the Day of Judgement.

[falconmain]

I find it funny the concept that after reading the quran you think that muslims have it wrong and you have it right. its not an attack on you I just find the question kind of funny.

the bible is a collection of stories that have been altered over time. I would suffice to say that the quran has been altered to but I have no evidence of that since its not something I have researched but during that time period it was very common for different regions to have different versions and until the modern printing press it was extremely hard if not impossible to have a standardized version of anything.

[..?]

Jawwad - Salam^_^

Do you think God would let his Prophets(pbut) be misguided on anything?^_^

The Quran clearly states that Jesus(pbuh) is not the son of God. That God is only one - with no partners...yet many pray to Jesus(pbuh) and call him their lord. Jesus(pbuh) has a likeness to Adam(pbuh). Niether of them had a father. God simply says "be" to his creation... and it is^_^

The Prophet(pbuh) believed in everything revealed by God. Psalms, Torah... everything. Unfortunately they were subject change at the hands of men. This is why God has promised the preservation of the Quran and ever since it was revealed people have dedicated to memory...large amounts of people in every generation memorize it.Then it was dictated to scribes. This has been a means of its preservation.


Anyway, sorry if anything in this post offended you - none intended.

Peace

[Sakuragi]

Jawwad - Salam^_^
Wa'salaam ya akhi! :)

[falconmain]

Jawwad - Salam^_^

Do you think God would let his Prophets(pbut) be misguided on anything?^_^

The Quran clearly states that Jesus(pbuh) is not the son of God. That God is only one - with no partners...yet many pray to Jesus(pbuh) and call him their lord. Jesus(pbuh) has a likeness to Adam(pbuh). Niether of them had a father. God simply says "be" to his creation... and it is^_^

The Prophet(pbuh) believed in everything revealed by God. Psalms, Torah... everything. Unfortunately they were subject change at the hands of men. This is why God has promised the preservation of the Quran and ever since it was revealed people have dedicated to memory...large amounts of people in every generation memorize it.Then it was dictated to scribes. This has been a means of its preservation.


Anyway, sorry if anything in this post offended you - none intended.

Peace


like I said each region had/has their own version. the same thing was done with the christion bible. Monks would memorize and copy the bible over and over but over time in each region certain things became different or emphasized more depending on their own situations. knowing the minds of man I would not trust them to correctly remember such a large volume of words over such a long period of time and expect it to be the exact same as the original. anyone playing the telephone game can attest to that. but I guess this is simply a matter of faith so I guess I will let it be.

[Gai-Sifu]

Society and the Media make Muslims out to be the new nazis, Even Bush relates them to it, Nazis were big on propaganda to gain politcal and military power.

So I mean..... shit....

[FrostXian]

TRUTH, in your FACE!
EVERY SINGLE HOLY BOOK HAS BEEN CORRUPTED.

[Dark Shadow]

No, the Quran is as pure as it was fourteen hundred years ago. While it does mention other holy books being corrupted over time (Torah, Gospels, etc), as far as I'm concerned, the original Arabic version has stayed the same.

[Louis-954]

Society and the Media make Muslims out to be the new nazis, Even Bush relates them to it, Nazis were big on propaganda to gain politcal and military power.

So I mean..... shit....
Well look at what the british Muslims tried to do with the planes about 2 weeks ago. Muslims are supposed to be against violence so the Quran itself isnt corrupt its stupid people who do who do stupid shit and make the rest of you look bad. Their corrupt not the Quran itself or any Muslim who follows it correctly.

[poona]

Its not the books that are corrupted, its the extremists that interpret the teachings in a corrupted way. There are some Christians who are just as corrupt, the KKK for example was a Christian extremist group.

[Negative-Ion]

TRUTH, in your FACE!
EVERY SINGLE HOLY BOOK HAS BEEN CORRUPTED.

quoted for truthfullness

[Louis-954]

Originally Posted by FrostXian
TRUTH, in your FACE!
EVERY SINGLE HOLY BOOK HAS BEEN CORRUPTED.


quoted for truthfullness
QTF times 2.

[sadated_peon]

No, book is holy. There is nothing about paper strung together that makes it any different from any other book.

the only thing that can be consider holy is the message of the book, and that is changes with the interpretation of the time.

[Total Biscuit]

Sigh... different religions, different interpretations, sciences, moralities... I worried like hell as a teenager, not knowing whether I'd be damned or no for my life, not knowing what to believe. Now, I just try my best to figure out what's right with the knowledge I have. I doubt I'll ever be able to reconcile all the beliefs in the world.

Can I be damned for that, assuming at least one religion turns out to be the right one?

[MartialHorror]

in a way, yes.

Mohommed, imo, was a prophet of God, but let his biasnesses get in the way some.

Examples are his tolerence of the people of the book. In some verses, he praises them. In others, he completely turns around on this.

But I believe God allowed it to happen for a good reason, as of every other religion.

[Akatsuki Bozz]

...corrupted ? i dont get watcha mean with that. whateva you mean . THE KORAN IS NOT CORRUPTED

[That NOS Guy]

Koran, corrupted? That would indicate it was somewhat pure in the first place.

For example, let's have some fun with things, shall we?

5.32 (my emphasis bolded)

For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

Hey, that sounds progressive and jiving with peace right? Wrong. Notice the secondary clause, which includes any variety of offenses which furthermore includes worshipping a God other then Allah and/or disbelief. It's the funny little clauses that permit such things as killing of unbelievers (well, only after you've invited them to Islam and they've declined) that make me extremely anxious to see a reformation movement (which discards this shit) take place within the Muslim world.

[MartialHorror]

NOS, are you a Christian?

I'd hope you point out the flaws in the Bible in dealing with that then.

[GOD'S BITCH]

I think thats a big problem in the bible. Religion is suppose to be conservative, meaning that no changes is suppose to occur in their books i.e. torah, etc. Unfortunately, it has been chaged to fit modern life. It has also been changed due to differnt interpretations. The Quran has never been changed or altered and never will.
like I said each region had/has their own version. the same thing was done with the christion bible. Monks would memorize and copy the bible over and over but over time in each region certain things became different or emphasized more depending on their own situations. knowing the minds of man I would not trust them to correctly remember such a large volume of words over such a long period of time and expect it to be the exact same as the original. anyone playing the telephone game can attest to that. but I guess this is simply a matter of faith so I guess I will let it be.

[cape]

For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

It means that you don't kill anyone exept if they have killed someone or was causing very,er.....bad things,that make him deserve to be killed.And the execution is the government and the court's job, not anyone else's.

Hey, that sounds progressive and jiving with peace right? Wrong. Notice the secondary clause, which includes any variety of offenses which furthermore includes worshipping a God other then Allah and/or disbelief.
And that's what we call misinterpreting. You don't go understanding a verse any way you want, you ask the schollers(sp?) and those who specialize in this stuff.

And to answer your question, no it does not include "any variety of offenses which furthermore includes worshipping a God other then Allah and/or disbelief."

It's the funny little clauses that permit such things as killing of unbelievers (well, only after you've invited them to Islam and they've declined) that make me extremely anxious to see a reformation movement (which discards this shit) take place within the Muslim world.
Who the hell told you that?!
That's only what some people say to make islam look bad.
Islam does NOT permit the killing of the unbelievers just because they're unbelievers, and even after inviting them to islam and they decline.
They're free to not enter islam if they don't want to.

[heavy_rasengan]

Koran, corrupted? That would indicate it was somewhat pure in the first place.

For example, let's have some fun with things, shall we?

5.32 (my emphasis bolded)

For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

Hey, that sounds progressive and jiving with peace right? Wrong. Notice the secondary clause, which includes any variety of offenses which furthermore includes worshipping a God other then Allah and/or disbelief. It's the funny little clauses that permit such things as killing of unbelievers (well, only after you've invited them to Islam and they've declined) that make me extremely anxious to see a reformation movement (which discards this shit) take place within the Muslim world.

Wow, do you have problems reading or are you just that Ignorant. Corruption in the land would be a better translation. Any variety of offenses? Where did you get that and what makes you think it includes simple things like killing a disbelievers? Corruption in the land is more like commiting crimes like terrorism for example. Open killing of disbelievers is a very foolish thing to say and I will prove it wrong with this verse.


2:256 There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghoot and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

Islam is a religion of peace. What other religion tells you to collaberate with enemies during the state of war?

5:2 O you who believe! Violate not the sanctity of the Symbols of Allah, nor of the Sacred Month, nor of the animals brought for sacrifice, nor the garlanded people or animals, etc. (Marked by the garlands on their necks made from the outer part of the treestems (of Makkah) for their security), nor the people coming to the Sacred House (Makkah), seeking the bounty and good pleasure of their Lord. But when you finish the Ihram (of Hajj or Umrah), you may hunt, and let not the hatred of some people in (once) stopping you from AlMasjidalHaram (at Makkah) lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help you one another in AlBirr and AtTaqwa (virtue, righteousness and piety); but do not help one another in sin and transgression. And fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment.

[That NOS Guy]

It means that you don't kill anyone exept if they have killed someone or was causing very,er.....bad things,that make him deserve to be killed.And the execution is the government and the court's job, not anyone else's.

....and that the basis for execution is still based on a muslim code of conduct which among other things forbids disbelief. Please do tell me how that's anything modern.


And that's what we call misinterpreting. You don't go understanding a verse any way you want, you ask the schollers(sp?) and those who specialize in this stuff.

Which is why I've looked at what "mischief in the land" can be construed as and looked at a few articles on this exact verse. Fucking appeal to authority.


And to answer your question, no it does not include "any variety of offenses which furthermore includes worshipping a God other then Allah and/or disbelief."

Okay, well the Arabic word for mischief is "fasad" which means according to this site (http://www.islam101.com/selections/glossaryEF.html):

Fasad, literally 'corruption', in Qur'anic terminology, means creating disorder and corruption on earth by following a path other than God's. Islam maintains that true peace and happiness emanate only through the observance of God's commands and through making a conscious effort to see that His laws alone are implemented in every sphere of life. Fasad occurs when man violates God's laws and disobeys Him. Fasad may therefore be partial as well as total; partial when one disregards God's law in one aspect of life while acknowledging His sovereignty in other spheres. If a society is based on the denial of God, that society is bound to be a corrupt and exploitative society - hence full of fasad.

What falls under this term in Sharia:

What constitutes the crime of 'spreading mischief in the land' is open to interpretation, but the following crimes are usually included:

Treason / Apostasy (when one leaves the faith and turns against it)
Terrorism
Piracy of any kind
Rape
Adultery
Homosexual activity

The Beeb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/capital_punishment/islam.shtml)

"But terrorism is on the list!" you say. Well, we note that that in Al-Ahzab (33:26) The following verse is included:

And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.

In the Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220 the Prophet says "I have been made victorious with terror"

It would appear terrorism is just fine when it's in the service of Islam.

For piracy it only gets better since the prophet declared in Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 351 that booty has been legal for him.

It's a wonderful setup that only works when the victims are Muslims.


Who the hell told you that?! That's only what some people say to make islam look bad. Islam does NOT permit the killing of the unbelievers just because they're unbelievers, and even after inviting them to islam and they decline.
They're free to not enter islam if they don't want to.

Ever hear of Abu Sufyan?

"Woe to you, O Abu Sufyan. Is it not time for you to realize that there is no God but the only God?" Abu Sufyan answered: "I do believe that." Muhammad then said to him: "Woe to you, O Abu Sufyan. Is it not time for you to know that I am the apostle of God?" Abu Sufyan answered: "By God, O Muhammad, of this there is doubt in my soul." The ’Abbas who was present with Muhammad told Abu Sufyan: "Woe to you! Accept Islam and testify that Muhammad is the apostle of God before your neck is cut off by the sword."

This incident is referenced in:

° Ibn Hisham, part 4, p. 11 ("Biography of the Prophet’)
° "The Chronicle of the Tabari", part 2, p. 157
° Ibn Kathir, "The Prophetic Biography", part 3, p. 549, and "The Beginning and the End"
° Ibn Khaldun, the rest of part 2, p. 43 and on
° Al-Sira al-Halabiyya, Vol. 3. p. 18
° Al Road Al Anf, part 4, p. 90, by Al Sohaily

That's funny, the prophet has this to say (9:05)

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

(9:29)

Fight those who believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Even the oft-respected "people of the book" have to pay discrimantory taxes and can still be enslaved (after all, they aren't Muslims). Yeah, very respecting of other religions.

[That NOS Guy]

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghoot and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

*whistles* 9:029

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Conquer them, force them to pay taxes, and say the only way to get out is become a Muslim. No compulsion there, right?

Nevermind my good compatriot that constantly referring to the firey hell that awaits people is a recognized form of compuslion as it is a threat of torture.


Islam is a religion of peace. What other religion tells you to collaberate with enemies during the state of war?

What other "religion of peace" has become a byword for violence and forciable conversion? Christianity tells a person to turn the other cheek no matter what. Buddhism does the same. That's a religion of peace, not one that says "yeah, ok don't kill Muslims but fuck all to the unbelievers."

[jdama]

Salizzam, everyone.... wow NOS... you really go out of your way to get at Islam, I am beginning to get impressed. As we say around here "Bo'd 'an el sharr u ghannilu", ("distance yourself from wickedness and serenade it").

It is common historical knowledge that the early Islamic futuhat/conquests didn't encourage conversion to Islam at all (non-Muslims paid higher taxes in exchange for religious freedom); it was not until the Abbasid dynasty that conversion to Islam was made something of a priority. The whole "unbeliever" policy thing has varied, and does vary a great deal with context.

I recall that the Caliph Uthman collected some 20-odd versions/masahef of the Holy Qur'an which were recorded in the various Islamic capitals of the world, and burned all save one to reduce the emergence of possible dissent and schisms among the faithful. The Qur'an we all know now is the one surviving manuscript that Uthman had compiled.

The whole idea of "corruption" makes little sense to me and carries a lot of loaded moral meaning, but we know that there is only one Qur'an text in the world that most people have access to, and the main Islamic rituals are far more uniform than other religions I have been exposed to, regardless of existant regional and sectarian differences.

The book was delivered in oration and recorded by many scribes to begin with, it's anyone's guess how accurately transmitted it was before it got collected by Uthman. I would suppose it is pretty accurate. Anyway, I am no Islamic scholar, and this is still a hotly researched and debated topic today.

[..?]

ThatNOSguy - To understand all the verses you quoted it is necessary to look at the circumstances in which they were revealed.

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

This is referring to the battlefield - battle was halted because both sides agreed to halt them in the sacred months.


The tax - "jizya" - was a tax on the non-muslims which contributed to the bank of money for the poor - "baytu al-mal." If they chose to convert to islam it was never because of the tax because then they would have to pay zakaat.

In the early days of Islam - the Muslims were tortured and persecuted...there was alot of tolerance..but for the sake of Islam retaliation became necessary.

Also - isnt the main idea behind war is to defeat the enemy or force the enemy to submit?

....and that the basis for execution is still based on a muslim code of conduct which among other things forbids disbelief. Please do tell me how that's anything modern.

Yes, an Islamic State(there are none at the moment) forbids disbelief after belief ie. apostasy. The punishment for apostasy is death - if the person concerned doesnt change his/her mind in 3 days. Of course it doesnt seem modern - thats because people change but Islam doesnt change...Just like the Quran.

If the Quran changed it would have been in a fashion to make modern people like yourself more accepting of Islam...and to "fit the times". Your displeasure with it should be enough for you to understand that it is most likely what was orginally revealed(as we Muslims believe) to the Prophet(pbuh)...who you seem to find equally outrageous.

Anyway - alot of this thread has gone off topic...

[The Nameless Pharaoh]

Jesus was human, not a god. Just think about it, if he was a God then he could have easily prevented his own death.

[Kamendex]

I would suffice to say that the quran has been altered to but I have no evidence of that since its not something I have researched but during that time period it was very common for different regions to have different versions and until the modern printing press it was extremely hard if not impossible to have a standardized version of anything.

I agree that the Torah and Bible have been altered but not the Qu'ran

And I'm not saying this only because I'm muslim

I'm saying this because the Qu'ran is a massive poem...yes a poem...not a collection of stories

If parts of the Qu'ran were altered it would be obvious because it would disrupt the flow of the poem


that is supposidly Gods way of keeping the Qu'ran pure

Jesus was human, not a god. Just think about it, if he was a God then he could have easily prevented his own death.

truly QFT, not like those other people that QFT to be cool o.o

[Giorno Giovanna]

Jesus was human, not a god. Just think about it, if he was a God then he could have easily prevented his own death.


I disagree with that but I don't really feel like getting into a spiritual debate this late anyway. Just to say that Jesus was human and god (he was human by appearance but spiritually was holy) and he allowed his own death to happen because it was only through his and only his blood that everyone's sins could be washed and forgiven, in a spiritual way of saying it, thus opening a way for us to be forgiven and saved. Believe or not, I do not care since you have you're own opinion and also I am not here to convert, only saying my opinion.

[Constantine]

THE QUR'AN IS NOT CORRUPTED AND NEVER WILL BE IT IS AS IT WAS 1400 YEAS AGO THIS DISCUSSION IS OVER, I REPEAT IT IS NOT CORRUPTED, GOT THAT, DEAL WITH IT!!

[Bleach]

^shut up nafeez lol. :P

No its not corrupted. Heres a story:

Once their was this man and he wanted to know if Christians Scholors knew more about their Religion or did Muslims Scholors know more.

What he did was he got a Bible and ask the Christian to repeat like the first page or w/e. Their were many mistakes.

When he asked the Muslim guy who memorized the Quran, the guy who was asking the question purposly changed one symbol/letter in the Quran and after he read that part once the Scholor immediatly said throw it away b/c it was not the Quran. One letter/Symbol changed EVERYTHING!
(This is a true story. Check a History book or google it idk if u will find it though O.o)

Bible's meaning has changed over time making it "tainted". Sort of like "tainting" the word of God. If you change the word of God you change everything. Quran has been the same for 1,400 years.

Also it depends on your beleifs. If you beleive in the books or just beleive some random guy wrote them down. I beleive in them =]

[Constantine]

^shut up nafeez lol. :P

No its not corrupted. Heres a story:

Once their was this man and he wanted to know if Christians Scholors knew more about their Religion or did Muslims Scholors know more.

What he did was he got a Bible and ask the Christian to repeat like the first page or w/e. Their were many mistakes.

When he asked the Muslim guy who memorized the Quran, the guy who was asking the question purposly changed one symbol/letter in the Quran and after he read that part once the Scholor immediatly said throw it away b/c it was not the Quran. One letter/Symbol changed EVERYTHING!
(This is a true story. Check a History book or google it idk if u will find it though O.o)

Bible's meaning has changed over time making it "tainted". Sort of like "tainting" the word of God. If you change the word of God you change everything. Quran has been the same for 1,400 years.

Also it depends on your beleifs. If you beleive in the books or just beleive some random guy wrote them down. I beleive in them =]

shut up junaid^ i'm playin that was a good speech
deep...very deep lol

[Bleach]

I learned it at the sunday school thing lol. i guess it does teach us some things >_>

[Constantine]

woah sunday school does pay off....(mybe i should stop going to sleep in class XD)

[Bleach]

No sleep is better =]

kk back on topic now O.o

[waster]

salam everyone ^-^
The Holy Quran is not currupted at all and it will not be currupted
a research made my university in germany its name is Munich university ignore the spelling of munich i dont know
ok the purpose was to see that The Holy Quran was currupted or not
so they gathered above 40 thousand books of The Holy Quran from all over the world and the conclusion they came on was that in all the books from all over the world there is not even a difference of a single dot or anything

[maj1n]

ThatNOSguy - To understand all the verses you quoted it is necessary to look at the circumstances in which they were revealed.

This is referring to the battlefield - battle was halted because both sides agreed to halt them in the sacred months.

The tax - "jizya" - was a tax on the non-muslims which contributed to the bank of money for the poor - "baytu al-mal." If they chose to convert to islam it was never because of the tax because then they would have to pay zakaat.

The Jizya was far worse then the Zakaat.

It was, of course, evident that the tax represented a discrimination and was intended, according to the Koran's own words, to emphasize the inferior status of the non-believers. It seemed, however, that from the economic point of view, it did not constitute a heavy imposition, since it was on a sliding scale, approximately one, two, and four dinars, and thus adjusted to the financial capacity of the taxpayer. This impression proved to be entirely fallacious, for it did not take into consideration the immense extent of poverty and privation experienced by the masses, and in particular their way of living from hand to mouth, their persistent lack of cash, which turned the "season of the tax" into one of horror, dread, and misery. The provisions of ancient Islamic law which exempted the indigent, the invalids and the old, were no longer observed in the Geniza period and had been discarded by the Shāfi‘ī School of Law, which prevailed in Egypt, also in theory
-Evidence on the Muslim Poll Tax from Non-Muslim Sources:


In the early days of Islam - the Muslims were tortured and persecuted...there was alot of tolerance..but for the sake of Islam retaliation became necessary.

Also - isnt the main idea behind war is to defeat the enemy or force the enemy to submit?

No, this is a lie.
Read your Quran.

“Lo! those who believed and left their homes and strove with their wealth and their lives for the cause of Allah, and those who took them in and helped them: these are protecting friends one of another. And those who believed but did not leave their homes, ye have no duty to protect them till they leave their homes; but if they seek help from you in the matter of religion then it is your duty to help (them) except against a folk between whom and you there is a treaty. Allah is Seer of what ye do.”
-Q8:72
Here Muhammad mandated that Muslims leave Mecca, the very first Muslims, yet some who were Muslims, stayed behind.
They were not persecuted out of Mecca.

It is corroborrated by Hishami in 'The Life of Muhammad'.
"The Coreish, hearing that Abu Talib lay at the point of death, sent a deputation in order that some contact should be made to bind both parties, after his decease should have removed all restraint upon Mahomet. They proposed accordingly that they should retain their ancient faith, and that Mahomet should promise to refrain from abuse or interference; in which case they on their part would agree not to molest him in his faith"

Coreish=Quraish (Meccan majority), Mahomet=Muhammad (very old dialect spelling).

[Kayo]

No it's not, it's the extremists that is corrupted. The media today make it look bad too, then using the hatred to attack and kill several Islamic countries.

One other thing, this thread is named "Question for muslims" so guys like NOS should shut up because it's not directed towards you.