Vegeta (any) vs. War Hulk and Juggernaught

[Kuya]

Who wins?????

[Keollyn]

Slaughter much!?! Vegeta would wish that Kakarotto had him killed on their first meeting after facing these two.

[Kuya]

Slaughter much!?! Vegeta would wish that Kakarotto had him killed on their first meeting after facing these two.

They wouldn't be able to match his speed. Especially if he's SSJ4. Or if he turns into the Golden Monkey.

[Hangatýr]

SSJ4 is non-canon, though. War Hulk and the Juggernaut could easily handle the Golden Oozaru.

[Keollyn]

They wouldn't be able to match his speed. Especially if he's SSJ4. Or if he turns into the Golden Monkey.

And what's so impressive about SSJ4 that makes him above War Hulk and Juggernaut? And Vegeta's strategy would be his downfall, regardless of having a speed advantage. You know, the common DBZ stategy of pouning close in first, powering up, pounding away some more, powering up some more AND FINALLY their ultimate attack. War Hulk and Juggernaut won't feel the "pounding away" junk and then one blow from either could spell potential death for Vegeta.

[Hangatýr]

War Hulk and Juggernaut could just easily wear out Vegeta.

[Renegade]

Can either Juggernaut or War Hulk destroy a planet?

Just wondering.

[Hangatýr]

Hulk probably can, if he gets angry enough.

But destroying the planet won't do Vegeta much good, as I don't think either Hulk nor Juggernaut need oxygen.

[SoulTaker540]

They don't need oxygen, in space,and their durability is off the charts.Juggernaut has been reduced to bones,or was it a head,meh it doesn't matter he kept on fighting despite this.Classic Juggernaut would rape Vegeta,and War Hulk would to.

[Renegade]

Hulk probably can, if he gets angry enough.

But destroying the planet won't do Vegeta much good, as I don't think either Hulk nor Juggernaut need oxygen.
Well I remember Freiza being able to blow up a planet with a single finger, and with pretty much no effort. By the end of the Buu saga, Vegata's power far surpasses Frieza's. So i'm pretty sure Vegeta is more than able to destroy a planet with ease (using this as a measure of strength). Adding his super speed and incredible fighting skill on top of that power; I don't really see War Hulk or Juggernaut winning this.

But i'm not too familiar with western comics, so unless you state some incredible feats that were accomplished by Juggernaut and War Hulk that exceed anything Vegeta could do, I don't see Vegeta losing.

[Hangatýr]

Juggernaut can never get tired, need to sleep or eat, breathe, or any such thing. He can not be moved unless he wants to, and when he does move he gains infinite momentum.

War Hulk gets stronger as he get angrier, to which there is no limit. Hulk has the best regeneration-factor in Marvel, if I recall correctly.

Vegeta is more bound to tire himself out.

[Keollyn]

Well I remember Freiza being able to blow up a planet with a single finger, and with pretty much no effort. By the end of the Buu saga, Vegata's power far surpasses Frieza's. So i'm pretty sure Vegeta is more than able to destroy a planet with ease (using this as a measure of strength). Adding his super speed and incredible fighting skill on top of that power; I don't really see War Hulk or Juggernaut winning this.

But i'm not too familiar with western comics, so unless you state some incredible feats that were accomplished by Juggernaut and War Hulk that exceed anything Vegeta could do, I don't see Vegeta losing.

The thing is... Vegeta's fighting TWO opponents, not one, that are NIGH indestructible. Speed blitzing is out of the question as they can take Vegeta's poundings. The only sure-fire strategy for Vegeta would be destroying the planet and hoping Kakarotto's there to teleport him to another. That would give him a draw, at best. But the likeliness of Vegeta destroying a planet on the first move (or at all, for that matter) is very low. And the likeliness of Kakarotto doing that is even more so.

[Hangatýr]

Destroying the planet would only be handing the victory over to War II and Juggs, IMO.

[Renegade]

Juggernaut can never get tired, need to sleep or eat, breathe, or any such thing.
Not needing to sleep, eat, or breathe isn't really going to help in this. Unless Vegeta tries to choke him to death or something.

He can not be moved unless he wants to, and when he does move he gains infinite momentum.
What's this being compared to though? Has he ever faced an opponent as strong as Vegeta before? An opponent with the capability and power to destroy an entire planet with ease?

War Hulk gets stronger as he get angrier, to which there is no limit. Hulk has the best regeneration-factor in Marvel, if I recall correctly.
Still doesn't prove that his strength is higher than Vegeta's. Maybe Vegeta could destroy him before he could even get a chance to get super angry.

Vegeta is more bound to tire himself out.
Not if he ends it quickly.


None of those things really provide support to their actual strength. Not being able to get tired, and getting stronger the more they get angry doesn't really help them too much in the situation when they are up against an opponent that has the strength and power to destroy an entire planet with ease.

[Hangatýr]

Not being able to get tired means that Juggernaut can fight for eternity on end, Vegeta can not. Juggs has faced opponents with far more physical power than Vegeta, and the only person that I can think of at this time that has moved Juggernaut is War Hulk.

Juggernaut is powered by a Mythical Being, not one of those weak ass Kais, but Cyttorak, which also gives him protection and allows him to fight even as just a skeleton. Hulk has the fastest and regeneration in Marvel, which means Vegeta will have a hard time to completely destroy Hulk.

Vegeta would only lose if he tried to destroy the planet, seeing as he needs oxygen, and his opponents don't. Further more, both Juggs and War II have far more strength than Vegeta ever will, so he can only damage them by means of Ki attacks, which he can't keep up forever.

[Renegade]

Not being able to get tired means that Juggernaut can fight for eternity on end, Vegeta can not.
Still, if his strength doesn't match up, Vegeta could end it quickly, and it wouldn't matter if Juggernaut can't get tired.

Juggs has faced opponents with far more physical power than Vegeta, and the only person that I can think of at this time that has moved Juggernaut is War Hulk.
Care to explain how these opponents are stronger than Vegeta?

Juggernaut is powered by a Mythical Being, not one of those weak ass Kais, but Cyttorak, which also gives him protection and allows him to fight even as just a skeleton. Hulk has the fastest and regeneration in Marvel, which means Vegeta will have a hard time to completely destroy Hulk.
Still not providing support to their strength and abilities. Have they ever done something like obliterate a planet, or defeated someone who could do that.

Vegeta would only lose if he tried to destroy the planet, seeing as he needs oxygen, and his opponents don't.
The only reason I'm mentioning the ability of destroying a planet is to measure strength. You haven't provided evidence of their strength surpassing the ability to destroy a planet.

Further more, both Juggs and War II have far more strength than Vegeta ever will, so he can only damage them by means of Ki attacks, which he can't keep up forever.
What evidence do you have of their strength? Vegeta can destroy a planet, have they ever done anything that matches up to that?

[Hangatýr]

What proof do you have that Vegeta can destroy a planet? As far as I can recall, he never has destroyed one canon-wise.

And what part of physical strength don't you get? DBZ characters are lucky to be class 40, both Hulk and Juggs are class 100 at the least.
http://www.incrediblehulk.com/secretwarsstrength.jpg
There, proof of Hulk's strength far exceeding Vegeta's.

[Keollyn]

Here's some more for Hulk.

http://www.incrediblehulk.com/incrediblefeats.html

P.S. I don't know where to find a comprised list of Juggs feats. Sorry.

[konflikti]

And War Hulk is on another level from that Hulk. And he's as far as I know the only thing to stop Juggs when he's in full-power.

[Renegade]

What proof do you have that Vegeta can destroy a planet? As far as I can recall, he never has destroyed one canon-wise.

And what part of physical strength don't you get? DBZ characters are lucky to be class 40, both Hulk and Juggs are class 100 at the least.
http://www.incrediblehulk.com/secretwarsstrength.jpg
There, proof of Hulk's strength far exceeding Vegeta's.
Vegeta's powerlevel surpasses someone who can destroy a planet, thus showing his strength and power. That's why I asked before if The Hulk or Juggernaut have defeated anyone who could destroy a planet.

And War Hulk is on another level from that Hulk. And he's as far as I know the only thing to stop Juggs when he's in full-power.
Maybe that's because he hasn't encountered anyone on the same level as Vegeta before.

[Hangatýr]

Vegeta CAN'T lift a 150,000,000,000 mountain, DBZ's strength range isn't even CLOSE to that.

Frieza destroyed the planet with a ki attack specifically designed to destroy planets. Vegeta has never destroyed a planet.

You have no proof whatsoever that Vegeta's physical strength comes even near Hulk's or Juggernaut's. I'm sure he can do quite a bit of damage with Ki, but pure physical strength has never been DBZ's strongpoint.

Besides, Powerlevels don't mean shit, especially not in cross-overs. Don't you notice that as the series progresses, they're not used anymore? They're hardly used in the manga, because they're inaccurate.

[Keollyn]

Vegeta's powerlevel surpasses someone who can destroy a planet. Thus showing his strength and power. That's why I asked before if The Hulk or Juggernaut have defeated anyone who could destroy a planet.

Btw, I'm sure Vegeta has the strength to lift what the Hulk is lifting in that picture.

Pardon the vulgarity of the sentence that's about to be typed but...

Highly. Fucking. Doubtful.

[Hangatýr]

http://www.incrediblehulk.com/asteroidstrength.jpg
Hulk destroying an asteroide TWICE the size of Earth with a single punch.

[Renegade]

Pardon the vulgarity of the sentence that's about to be typed but...

Highly. Fucking. Doubtful.
Vegeta's strength far surpasses the strength of someone who can destroy an entire planet with a single finger. I have no, pardon the vulgarity, Fucking doubt in my mind that he can lift whatever The Hulk is lifting in that picture.

http://www.incrediblehulk.com/asteroidstrength.jpg
Hulk destroying an asteroide TWICE the size of Earth with a single punch.
Any proof that it's twice the size of Earth?

[konflikti]

Vegeta's strength far surpasses the strength of someone who can destroy an entire planet with a single finger. I have no, pardon the vulgarity, Fucking doubt in my mind that he can lift whatever the hell that is.

Vegeta cannot destroy planet with a finger. He can destroy planet with a beam shot from finger. Has the finger anything to do with it? No, it just sounds like he is hardcore that way. He cannot break a planet with physical attack.

[Keollyn]

Ki blast =/= lifting strength. Know the difference.

[Hangatýr]

Frieza destroyed the fucking planet with KI, not physical strength. No one in DBZ can destroy a planet with just a finger, they have to use a ki attack that might come from the finger.

http://www.incrediblehulk.com/asteroidstrength.html Proof of the asteroid being twice the size of earth.

Stop being a god damned fanboy.

[Renegade]

Frieza destroyed the fucking planet with KI, not physical strength. No one in DBZ can destroy a planet with just a finger, they have to use a ki attack that might come from the finger.

http://www.incrediblehulk.com/asteroidstrength.html Proof of the asteroid being twice the size of earth.

Stop being a god damned fanboy.
Chill out. I'm not being a fanboy. I'm just trying to get evidence to understand Juggernaut's and The Hulk's abilities, because before I started debating, none was provided.

Anyways, that's the evidence I was looking for. Thank you for clearing it up. Although, at this point, I think Vegeta's Ki exceeds or atleast matches The Hulk's strength. Needing the help of an "anti-magnetic jet pack" to destroy it. I'm sure Vegeta could have destroyed it with a single blast of his Final Flash.

[Hangatýr]

Ur, Hulk needed the anti-magnetic jetpack to escape Earth's gravity fully and get into space to destroy the asteroid.

But now let's see some evidence on Vegeta's side.

[Renegade]

But now let's see some evidence on Vegeta's side.
If Cell didn't take the grunt of it, his Final Flash would have easily destroyed Earth.

Even during the time he was fighting Goku, he used the Galick Gun to destroy Earth, which is one of his weakest attacks. Goku countered it with his Kamehameha, so it didn't hit.

[Hangatýr]

Correction, he claimed it could destroy the earth, just as Cell claimed to be able to destroy the solar system. Both were arrogant characters, which is a characteristic known for overestimation of oneself.

[Renegade]

Correction, he claimed it could destroy the earth, just as Cell claimed to be able to destroy the solar system. Both were arrogant characters, which is a characteristic known for overestimation of oneself.
If he didn't have to deal with Goku, he could have easily destroyed Earth. He's the prince of Saiyans, there is no doubt in my mind that he could do it.

Frieza can destroy planets with ease, yet could not handle a Super Saiyan 1. By the end of the Buu saga, Vegeta's strength far exceeds Frieza's considering he reached Super Saiyain 2. Destroying a planet is nothing for him. Kid Buu was destroying one after another like it was nothing, while Vegeta put up a descent fight against him. He can easily destroy a planet.

[SoulTaker540]

And Goku wasn't even sure Vegeta could destroy Earth,he had to think about blocking it before hand.It really depends on War Hulks healing factor,if Hulk can take on a planet buster than he wins this.Classic Juggernaut is pretty much omnipotent so I don't see how he loses.

[Hangatýr]

He has never shown to destroy a planet.

Frieza used an attack SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to destroy a planet's core. And once again, DBZ strength is not impressive, only their Ki increases that much, not their strength, nor their speed.

[Renegade]

He has never shown to destroy a planet.

Frieza used an attack SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to destroy a planet's core. And once again, DBZ strength is not impressive, only their Ki increases that much, not their strength, nor their speed.
Lol, you're really going to argue that even though a Super Saiyan 1 can defeat Frieza (someone who can destroy a planet with ease), a Super Saiyan 2 cannot destroy a single planet?

This is making me want to create a whole new thread with a poll, asking whether or not you think Vegeta (someone who far exceeds Frieza) can destroy a single planet.

I can't believe this shit. :noworry

[Hangatýr]

Show me proof that Vegeta can destroy a planet. Scans, what ever you will.

Don't try to prove it with powerlevels, they are obsolete and inaccurate.

Besides, you're trying to say that, if Frieza can do it, so can Vegeta. By this logic, Vegeta must be able regenerate limbs, just like Piccolo and Cell.

[Renegade]

Show me proof that Vegeta can destroy a planet. Scans, what ever you will.

Don't try to prove it with powerlevels, they are obsolete and inaccurate.
It's common sense in the world of DBZ. If a character can defeat another character that can destroy a planet, that character can destroy a planet as well. It almost makes me laugh to think that Vegeta Super Saiyan 2 cannot destroy a single planet.

Besides, you're trying to say that, if Frieza can do it, so can Vegeta. By this logic, Vegeta must be able regenerate limbs, just like Piccolo and Cell.
Regenerating a limb and using a Ki attack are completely different things. Most fighters in the DBZ universe are easily capable of a Ki attack. And when a fighter is stronger than another fighter, the abilities that they both are capable of increase in the stronger fighter.

[Hangatýr]

But since War II and Juggernaut do not come from the DBZ world, such logic is negligible.

Besides, defeating another character might not be a sign of mere strength, but more so about technique and tactic. It's like Enel vs. Luffy, Luffy only won because rubber doesn't conduct electricity.

But you still haven't shown me any proof to back-up your claims.

[Keollyn]

I would really love to see this instant in which Frieza destroyed a planet with ease.

Oh, and don't point me to the Bardock's special....

[Hangatýr]

Bardock's special isn't canon, anyway.

[Renegade]

But since War II and Juggernaut do not come from the DBZ world, such logic is negligible.
No it's not because it's only being used to compare characters within the DBZverse (Vegeta and Frieza).

[Psysalis]

But freeza did destroy the planet anyways right...in the actuall episodes and manga they did prove that

[Hangatýr]

But that still doesn't proove that Vegeta can. He has only claimed to be able so, but never did so.

[Keollyn]

Bardock's special isn't canon, anyway.

I was debating with someone recently who treated it as if it was.

[Hangatýr]

Specials and movies =/= canon

Same goes for things in the anime, like Vegeta destroying that planet.

[CrazyMoronX]

Draw.

Vegeta cannot hurt either of his opponents, and they cannot hurt him, unless they got lucky.

[konflikti]

Draw.

Vegeta cannot hurt either of his opponents, and they cannot hurt him, unless they got lucky.

They might detroy the planet and Vegeta would suffocate. But that's the only way unless Vegeta totally screws up.

[Renegade]

But that still doesn't proove that Vegeta can. He has only claimed to be able so, but never did so.
Vegeta is too proud and honorable to lie about something like that. If he said he would... he could.

[Hangatýr]

Vegeta is too proud and honorable to lie about something like that. If he said he would... he could.
Proof ?

[Keollyn]

This is what I said to someone when they asked me why I think Vegeta wasn't able to destroy Earth during the Vegeta saga.

Because nothing before him has shown to, nor came close. You can't go around believing the grandiose statements of a character without any previous evidence that would remotely hint to that ability.

Let's say that I military pressed 400 pounds. Now I go to a friend and tell him that I'm able to military press 1-ton. How do I go from 400 to 2,240 pounds with no gradual evidence that I can? In this case, people use Roshi's moon busting as the "400 pounds" and Vegeta's supposed Earth busting blast as the "1-ton"

It's to big of a jump with no evidence in between to gauge that accurately. So until he actually DOES it, it stands at nothing more than Vegeta being so furious that he prevaricated a bit. Anger does make you say things you don't mean. Ask the human race that.

And I pretty much stand by that.

[kapsi]

Vegeta wins with one blast.

[Endless Mike]

Hulk once smashed a planetoid twice the size of earth with his bare hands, and that was in one of his weaker forms, War Hulk is one of his strongest forms.

EDIT: Also War Hulk is powered by Celestial technology, which is drawing in energy from millions of galaxies, and Juggernaut is powered by Cytorrak, who is a Skyfather - level being. No DBZ character could so much as scratch them.

[Hangatýr]

Already posted the scan, Mike.

[kapsi]

http://www.incrediblehulk.com/asteroidstrength.jpg
Hulk destroying an asteroide TWICE the size of Earth with a single punch.
Looks like he destroyed it only because someone threw him very fast at that asteroid...a cannonball would do the same.

[Hangatýr]

Can you proove your thoughts? I for one am more likely to believe incrediblehulk than you.

[Endless Mike]

Looks like he destroyed it only because someone threw him very fast at that asteroid...a cannonball would do the same.

W....T....F....

You're saying a fucking CANNONBALL would destroy an asteroid twice the size of Earth?:huh

[kapsi]

Can you proove your thoughts? I for one am more likely to believe incrediblehulk than you.
He thinks it. There's a bubble left and down to the Hulk, it's his thoughts.

W....T....F....

You're saying a fucking CANNONBALL would destroy an asteroid twice the size of Earth?
If a not so big green man can do it by flying into the asteroid... In reality he would probably dig a hole into it and got stuck. Same with lifting a mountain...it's too unrealistic to be taken seriously. In DBZ at least they use energy blast things.

[Hangatýr]

Oh yes, energy blast things are completely realistic and should be taken seriously.

[superbatman86]

Vegeta wins easily.He's way too fast for either Juggs or Hulk to see let alone hit.And he blasts them off the planet which would probably kill Hulk and BFR Juggs.And for all those arguing he can't destroy a planet where's your proof?He said he could and nothing disproved he couldn't.Goku doubted he could but he was new to that level of power so he wasn't sure what he could or couldn't do.Master Roshi destroyed the moon way back in the begining and we know that his strength was around 139 and that the Kamahamaha raised his power.The moon is 1/6 the size of earth.Even if the power scaling isn't linear(which there's no proof that it isn't)Vegeta is more than 100x as strong as Roshi and his power also rises when he uses Galick ho he could easily destroy the planet.

[konflikti]

Even if the power scaling isn't linear(which there's no proof that it isn't)Vegeta is more than 100x as strong as Roshi and his power also rises when he uses Galick ho he could easily destroy the planet.

If Vegeta destroys the planet, he dies. Hulk and Juggs don't die. To be honest, I don't think Hulk and Juggs can catch Vegeta, unless he does something really stupid. But only thing that even remotely rivals these guys in survivability is Buu in DBZ universe. They just won't die.

[Endless Mike]

GBE of the moon is 3 orders of magnitude less than that of the earth, guy.

And the burden of proof is on you to prove he can, we don't have to disprove it.

Not to mention Hulk can survive in space, especially with Celestial technology, and Juggernaut could just walk back to earth since he doesn't need a solid surface to walk on. And they're not 'too slow', the first thing Vegeta is going to do is go HtH, where he gets splattered to gooey red paste with one punch.

[Comic Book Guy]

Vegeta's powerlevel surpasses someone who can destroy a planet. Thus showing his strength and power.

Not his physical strength.

Btw, I'm sure Vegeta has the strength to lift what the Hulk is lifting in that picture.

You must be seriously joking.

[Kagutsuchi]

But that still doesn't proove that Vegeta can. He has only claimed to be able so, but never did so.

Just to clarify, Vegeta can destroy planets. I can't be bothered to download the manga or whatever (cause its old) so I'll quote Wiki:

With this power, Goku turned the tables and completely pummelled Vegeta, and the Prince of Saiyans decided he would destroy the planet with his Galick Gun technique,

Also, I remember Babidi said that to destroy a planet you must have the minimum power level of 3000 or something, and he complimented Gohan on how he surpasses that completely.

Btw Juggs and Hulk'll win.

[Nexas]

WTF. Why is Vegeta winning!?! Even if he destroyed the planet, Hulk and Jugs would survive, and Vegeta would die from lack of oxygen.

[Comic Book Guy]

Why is Vegeta winning!?!

Popularity.

[Sasori]

Why is Vegeta winning!?!

'tards.

Fixed :amuse

[superbatman86]

If Vegeta destroys the planet, he dies. Hulk and Juggs don't die. To be honest, I don't think Hulk and Juggs can catch Vegeta, unless he does something really stupid. But only thing that even remotely rivals these guys in survivability is Buu in DBZ universe. They just won't die.I never said he would destroy the planet just that he could.

[Phenomenol]

It Should have been Brolly Vs. The Hulk and Juggernaut and Brolly would kick their ASSES all over the place...

Vegeta could still win if he fights one at a time..

[superbatman86]

GBE of the moon is 3 orders of magnitude less than that of the earth, guy.

And the burden of proof is on you to prove he can, we don't have to disprove it.

Not to mention Hulk can survive in space, especially with Celestial technology, and Juggernaut could just walk back to earth since he doesn't need a solid surface to walk on. And they're not 'too slow', the first thing Vegeta is going to do is go HtH, where he gets splattered to gooey red paste with one punch.Yes they are too slow.Spider-man has beaten both these guys because he was too fast and if he can do it Vegeta could.They get blasted off the planet at the start of the match.Based on what we've seen vastly lesser characters do it's more logical that he could destroy the planet than not.And he made a statement that in no way was contradicted.Goku being new to this level of power had no idea wheither or not ZVegeta could destroy the planet.And unless your saying that it would take more than 100x the power to blow up the earth than it would the moon the point is mute..

[Comic Book Guy]

It Should have been Brolly Vs. The Hulk and Juggernaut and Brolly would kick their ASSES all over the place...

Not really.

I don't know much about War Hulk, but Broly won't be able to override Juggernaut's durability, thanks to Cyttorak. It's arguable that nothing in the DBZverse can probably harm Juggernaut.

Of course, unless Classic Juggernaut is not used.

[Phenomenol]

It Should have been Brolly Vs. The Hulk and Juggernaut and Brolly would kick their ASSES all over the place...

Not really.

I don't know much about War Hulk, but Broly won't be able to override Juggernaut's durability, thanks to Cyttorak. It's arguable that nothing in the DBZverse can probably harm Juggernaut.

Of course, unless Classic Juggernaut is not used.


I agree that Juggernaut is UNSTOPPABLE, he gets no physical damage!!

Brolly would blast the Juggernaut somewhere else So could Vegeta ! Do you need me to post scans how Spiderman beat Juggernaut and how he was trapped under a building for Months? I can name far lesser characters who have Smoked the juggernaut.

[konflikti]

I agree that Juggernaut is UNSTOPPABLE, he gets no physical damage!!

Brolly would blast the Juggernaut somewhere else So could Vegeta ! Do you need me to post scans how Spiderman beat Juggernaut and how he was trapped under a building for Months? I can name far lesser characters who have Smoked the juggernaut.

They disabled Juggernaut for a while. Show me when Juggernaut was actually defeated.

[Comic Book Guy]

Brolly would blast the Juggernaut somewhere else So could Vegeta ! Do you need me to post scans how Spiderman beat Juggernaut and how he was trapped under a building for Months? I can name far lesser characters who have Smoked the juggernaut.

Yep. But outright kill Classic Juggernaut?

Show me when Juggernaut was actually defeated.

Only time I can think of is when Onslaught ripped out Cyttorak's ruby from Juggernaut's chest and imprisoned Cain into it.

[Phenomenol]

Yep. But outright kill Classic Juggernaut?

Nobody and I mean NOBODY can KILL the Juggernaut, only way for Vegeta or Brolly to win is BLAST him of the Damn planet.

Only time I can think of is when Onslaught ripped out Cyttorak's ruby from Juggernaut's chest and imprisoned Cain into it.

Juggernaut was disabled like Konflikti said, Spiderman barried him under a ton of Rubble and it took 8 months for Juggernaut to come out.

Vegeta wins.

[BladeofTheChad]

who gives a shit, i honestly think Marvel characters are highly overrated on the power scale...but i dont give a shit...

[Comic Book Guy]

Vegeta wins.

If to win the battle means a ring-out, yes.

But to the death?

Vegeta would die from exhaustion.

[Phenomenol]

Vegeta wins.

If to win the battle means a ring-out, yes.

But to the death?

Vegeta would die from exhaustion.

I agree with all of this!!!:)

[Endless Mike]

Yes they are too slow.Spider-man has beaten both these guys because he was too fast and if he can do it Vegeta could.They get blasted off the planet at the start of the match.Based on what we've seen vastly lesser characters do it's more logical that he could destroy the planet than not.And he made a statement that in no way was contradicted.Goku being new to this level of power had no idea wheither or not ZVegeta could destroy the planet.And unless your saying that it would take more than 100x the power to blow up the earth than it would the moon the point is mute..

Spider-man never tried to duke it out with them, he spent 99% of the fight running for his life, and he would have been killed by the Hulk's thunderclap if it wasn't prevented by another guy.

EDIT: and 3 orders of magnitude is in the area of 1000 times.

[kapsi]

Wasn't Juggernaut stopped and almost killed by Hulk? Anyone strong can do that then.

[Endless Mike]

No, that was War Hulk, who was enhanced by Celestial technology and channeling the power of thousands of galaxies.

[kapsi]

Very impressive. Spiderman beat them?

[Havoc]

Very impressive. Spiderman beat them?

Yes, but when taken out of context it's a lot more impressive than it actually was. Also the Hulk Spiderman "beat" wasn't War Hulk.

[Bro Tai Jr.]

Well I am not familiar with War Hulk, could someone update me? :amuse

[Bro Tai Jr.]

If Vegeta destroys the planet, he dies. Hulk and Juggs don't die. To be honest, I don't think Hulk and Juggs can catch Vegeta, unless he does something really stupid. But only thing that even remotely rivals these guys in survivability is Buu in DBZ universe. They just won't die.

I don't get it, since when do the Hulk and Mr. Jug not need air? If you destroy the planet there is no air. Also, think back to the Buu saga when he killed himself to kill Buu he was only, what Super Sayan 2 and he put a huge dent in the planet? Now he can go SSJ4 or higher, I am not sure I haven't watch the series since he went SSJ4 anyways, now if he did that he probably would destroy the planet and all the stuff with in like 100+ miles I doubt the Hulk and Mr. Jug could withstand that.

[omg laser pew pew!]

GBE of the moon is 3 orders of magnitude less than that of the earth, guy.

And the burden of proof is on you to prove he can, we don't have to disprove it.

Not to mention Hulk can survive in space, especially with Celestial technology, and Juggernaut could just walk back to earth since he doesn't need a solid surface to walk on. And they're not 'too slow', the first thing Vegeta is going to do is go HtH, where he gets splattered to gooey red paste with one punch.

I disagree. I do not doubt that if you're including ss4 Vegeta (this thread does say 'any') then Vegeta would be packing class 100+ strength since he is just as strong as Goku and Goku could lift a city.

Now before you go beserk, I'm not saying Vegeta will win this fight (nor am I saying that he could match in physical strength with War Hulk). He, for one, cannot kill Juggs, he might be able to kill Hulk if he just powers up a blast for like a week or something but not Jugs with that broken shield

[Nexas]

@BroTaiJr
Because of Cyttorak, the Juggernaut does not need to sleep, eat, drink, or breath. Jugs is also incredibly durable:
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/2482/jugghealmp6.jpg
Don't know about the Hulk. Never read much of him.

[Renegade]

A quote from Wikipedia to help support the fact that Vegeta can destroy a planet.

Galick Gun

A beam similar to the Kamehameha. Vegeta charges the attack similarly to the Kamehameha, but Vegeta releases it with both hands faced open (while the Kamehameha requires the fingers to be curled). The result is a concentrated, fuchsia-colored energy beam from his hands and body. Vegeta uses this against Goku in their first fight during the Saiyan Saga. When Goku countered the Galick Gun by Kamehameha, Vegeta noted that the two skills are very similar. Translated as Garlic Gun or Galick Gun. In keeping with the Saiyan pun on vegetables, it is named after the vegetable "garlic" (note that "ga-rikku" is the Japanese way of saying garlic). Capable of destroying small planets if enough power is put into it.
And that's just the Galick Gun, which is one of his weaker attacks.
I would really love to see this instant in which Frieza destroyed a planet with ease.

Oh, and don't point me to the Bardock's special....
If you aren't aware of Frieza being able to destroy planets with ease using a ki blast generated from the tip of his index finger, then I don't think you should even be in this thread.

[Endless Mike]

I disagree. I do not doubt that if you're including ss4 Vegeta (this thread does say 'any') then Vegeta would be packing class 100+ strength since he is just as strong as Goku and Goku could lift a city.

Now before you go beserk, I'm not saying Vegeta will win this fight (nor am I saying that he could match in physical strength with War Hulk). He, for one, cannot kill Juggs, he might be able to kill Hulk if he just powers up a blast for like a week or something but not Jugs with that broken shield

War Hulk was powered by CELESTIAL TECHNOLOGY drawing energy from entire galaxies!

[Supa Swag]

A quote from Wikipedia to help support the fact that Vegeta can destroy a planet.


And that's just the Galick Gun, which is one of his weaker attacks.


Aside from Big Bang and Final Flash, whats stronger?

[Renegade]

Aside from Big Bang and Final Flash, whats stronger?
Desperate Attack, Atmoic Blast, and Final Shine...

[Endless Mike]

He said "Aside from".

[Renegade]

He said "Aside from".
I know... :huh

[omg laser pew pew!]

War Hulk was powered by CELESTIAL TECHNOLOGY drawing energy from entire galaxies!

Please point out where I said that Vegeta will 100% kill Hulk

[Keollyn]

A quote from Wikipedia to help support the fact that Vegeta can destroy a planet.


And that's just the Galick Gun, which is one of his weaker attacks.

If you aren't aware of Frieza being able to destroy planets with ease using a ki blast generated from the tip of his index finger, then I don't think you should even be in this thread.

If you think Earth is a small planet then I don't think you need to be in ANY discussion at all until you actually head back to school and learn this.

The fact that Frieza didn't show us this "ease of destruction" would pretty much make it hard to prove that Frieza destroys planet with ease. Is this clear enough, or should I explain it in a term even someone like you, who thinks Earth is a small planet, would understand?

[Endless Mike]

Well compared to the average size of planets in our solar system, and the average size of extrasolar planets that have been discovered, Earth is a small planet.

[Keollyn]

That much I know, but Earth is still not a small planet by any stretch. But really, unless we have actual proof to that wiki's claims, the fact that Vegeta can't bust Earth at that time still stands.

[omg laser pew pew!]

That much I know, but Earth is still not a small planet by any stretch.

Actually on average it is small. It's just that even the smallest planet is still huge

[Keollyn]

Alright, my fault. We'll stick to Earth being a small planet. But how does this prove he can bust Earth?

[omg laser pew pew!]

If Frieza could destroy Namek then I think Vegeta could destroy Earth if he focused his power

[Keollyn]

I'm not talking about any point onward from Frieza's saga. I'm talking about Galick Gun and Vegeta saga. Galick Gun couldn't bust Earth with Vegeta's level of power at that point.

[Renegade]

If you think Earth is a small planet then I don't think you need to be in ANY discussion at all until you actually head back to school and learn this.
When did I say Earth was a small planet (even though it is)? I stated his Galick Gun could destroy a small planet, but followed that by saying it is one of his weaker attacks.

The fact that Frieza didn't show us this "ease of destruction" would pretty much make it hard to prove that Frieza destroys planet with ease. Is this clear enough, or should I explain it in a term even someone like you, who thinks Earth is a small planet, would understand?
... You're still denying the fact that Frieza can destroy a planet with ease?

Did you even watch the show? :huh

Wikipedia quote:
Death Ball

An attack used by Freeza (and in the Dragonball Z movies by his brother Coola). A spark of ki lights on the index finger, and once enough energy is gathered this spark may grow to the size of a small moon. When ready, this "Death Ball" is thrown towards the target. Typically this attack is used to destroy planets or as a last-ditch effort to kill an opponent.
Death Ball
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/95/Vegeta%27s_Destruction.jpg/300px-Vegeta%27s_Destruction.jpg

[Keollyn]

Wow! The DBZ manga was in color?!

[superbatman86]

I'm not talking about any point onward from Frieza's saga. I'm talking about Galick Gun and Vegeta saga. Galick Gun couldn't bust Earth with Vegeta's level of power at that point.Where's your evidence that he can't.

[Phenomenol]

Originally Posted by Keollyn
I'm not talking about any point onward from Frieza's saga. I'm talking about Galick Gun and Vegeta saga. Galick Gun couldn't bust Earth with Vegeta's level of power at that point.

That is crap Keollyn and you know it, Master Roshi was blowing up the moon with a powerlevel of 160 or higher and your telling me Vegeta could not destroy eart with his most powerfu lattack at the time?:huh Not to mention he said that he was going to "destroy thr planet to dust" Do not argue with waht the manga said.

[superbatman86]

Spider-man never tried to duke it out with them, he spent 99% of the fight running for his life, and he would have been killed by the Hulk's thunderclap if it wasn't prevented by another guy.

EDIT: and 3 orders of magnitude is in the area of 1000 times.Since the earth isn't actually 3 orders of magnitude bigger than the moon this is meaningless.It's actually less than 1.

[Endless Mike]

Where's your evidence that he can't.

Burden of proof is on you.

[superbatman86]

That is crap Keollyn and you know it, Master Roshi was blowing up the moon with a powerlevel of 160 or higher and your telling me Vegeta could not destroy eart with his most powerfu lattack at the time?:huh Not to mention he said that he was going to "destroy thr planet to dust" Do not argue with waht the manga said.I completely agree.Unless anyone can prove that he can't when he said he could then we go by his statements.

[Keollyn]

Where's your evidence that he can't.

The evidence that he DIDN'T. Now, let me ask you... Where's your evidence that he can?

[superbatman86]

Burden of proof is on you.Actually it's on you since your trying to disprove something that he said he could do.

[superbatman86]

The evidence that he DIDN'T. Now, let me ask you... Where's your evidence that he can?He didn't because Goku stopped simple as that.My proof is that mater Roshi who is more than a hundred times weaker than Vegeta blew up the moon which is a sixth of the size of earth.

[Endless Mike]

Actually it's on you since your trying to disprove something that he said he could do.

Do you understand the burden of proof? I don't have to disprove it, you have to prove it.

[Keollyn]

He didn't because Goku stopped simple as that.My proof is that mater Roshi who is more than a hundred times weaker than Vegeta blew up the moon which is a sixth of the size of earth.

Just in case you missed it...

Because nothing before him has shown to, nor came close. You can't go around believing the grandiose statements of a character without any previous evidence that would remotely hint to that ability.

Let's say that I military pressed 400 pounds. Now I go to a friend and tell him that I'm able to military press 1-ton with some more training. How do I go from 400 to 2,240 pounds with no gradual evidence that I can? In this case, people use Roshi's moon busting as the "400 pounds" and Vegeta's supposed Earth busting blast as the "1-ton"

It's to big of a jump with no evidence in between to gauge that accurately. So until he actually DOES it, it stands at nothing more than Vegeta being so furious that he prevaricated a bit. Anger does make you say things you don't mean. Ask the human race that.

[Endless Mike]

He didn't because Goku stopped simple as that.My proof is that mater Roshi who is more than a hundred times weaker than Vegeta blew up the moon which is a sixth of the size of earth.

1. Powers levels are not a linear scale.

2. The moon's GBE is 3 orders of magnitude lower than the Earth's.

[superbatman86]

I've had enough of people doubting DBZ when they something and argue with no evidence supporting their arguments but just accept what other manga characters say as fact.People believe that Saint Seya can go light speed from what someone said,people believe that Dark Schneider can create thousands of sheild a second based on what people said but when someone from DB says something and there is evidence based on what weaker characters could do people say they can't.

[superbatman86]

Just in case you missed it...Roshi blowing up the moon is a comparable feat whether you like it or not.

[superbatman86]

Do you understand the burden of proof? I don't have to disprove it, you have to prove it.Not when a character states something and other characters have done comparable feats.After that it's on you to use MANGA evidence to disprove it. And you and me have been through this before about you having a double standard about believing what people say.

[Phenomenol]

I've had enough of people doubting DBZ when they something and argue with no evidence supporting their arguments but just accept what other manga characters say as fact.People believe that Saint Seya can go light speed from what someone said,people believe that Dark Schneider can create thousands of sheild a second based on what people said but when someone from DB says something and there is evidence based on what weaker characters could do people say they can't.

Yep, I have actually watched Saint Seiya and not once have I seen a lightspeed feat, also Dark Schneider is an overrated bastard, I believe Keollyn was hyping this character up and So far I am not impressed.

I told you SuperBatman86, Too Many DBZ haters at this Forum they hate it because of it's popularity. Hell they probably hate Shonen jump Manga as well..

[Renegade]

Wow! The DBZ manga was in color?!
It doesn't have to be manga to be canon. Mostly everything until Dragonball GT is canon material that occured in the manga (including Frieza destroying planet Vegeta).

[superbatman86]

1. Powers levels are not a linear scale.

2. The moon's GBE is 3 orders of magnitude lower than the Earth's.Who are you to say they arn't on a linear scale?Where's your proof?

[Phenomenol]

Originally Posted by Endless Mike
1. Powers levels are not a linear scale

Thats garbage, the numbers DO mean something. Its quite possiblt the PEFECT and most SIMPLE way to gauge power since it assigned an actual number. Shame you can't see this way. and the EXACT difference between 14 million and 15 million is quite simple...its a million.

[Keollyn]

It doesn't have to be manga to be canon. Mostly everything until Dragonball GT is canon material that occured in the manga (including Frieza destroying planet Vegeta).

Umm... since you love your wiki articles so much, how about you wiki "Dragon Ball canon" and then get back to me on that.

Edit: Wrong person. But still... wiki that article.

[Comic Book Guy]

Thats garbage, the numbers DO mean something. Its quite possiblt the PEFECT and most SIMPLE way to gauge power since it assigned an actual number. Shame you can't see this way. and the EXACT difference between 14 million and 15 million is quite simple...its a million.

And the quality of the single digit 1 is what exactly, PL-wise?

[Endless Mike]

Who are you to say they arn't on a linear scale?Where's your proof?

Farmer.

1/28th of the moon.

QED.

[Phenomenol]

Thats garbage, the numbers DO mean something. Its quite possiblt the PEFECT and most SIMPLE way to gauge power since it assigned an actual number. Shame you can't see this way. and the EXACT difference between 14 million and 15 million is quite simple...its a million.

And the quality of the single digit 1 is what exactly, PL-wise?

OVERALL POWER! Strenght, speed etc...

[Endless Mike]

Thats garbage, the numbers DO mean something. Its quite possiblt the PEFECT and most SIMPLE way to gauge power since it assigned an actual number. Shame you can't see this way. and the EXACT difference between 14 million and 15 million is quite simple...its a million.

You've just copy - and - pasted this post from your previous posts, and it's not anymore true now than it was then.

Numbers are only meaningful when they actually have a basis in fact. There is no basis for DBZ power levels, other than "higher number = stronger fighter".

It's useless for cross - universe comparisons.

[superbatman86]

Farmer.

1/28th of the moon.

QED.If the farmer could do a Kamahama he would I think he could destroy 1/28 of the moon.

[Ichiro Miyata]

Vegeta wins this :laugh

[Renegade]

By the end of the Buu saga, Vegeta's Ki FAR surpasses Frieza's. Since Frieza used his Ki to destroy planets, naturaly this means Vegeta has the capability of destroying planets aswell.

It's as simple as that.

[superbatman86]

You've just copy - and - pasted this post from your previous posts, and it's not anymore true now than it was then.

Numbers are only meaningful when they actually have a basis in fact. There is no basis for DBZ power levels, other than "higher number = stronger fighter".

It's useless for cross - universe comparisons.But not when it's used to show the difference in stength between 3 people of the same universe which we are using it for.That's why it was made,to show the difference in strength between 2 characters.Notice how no one has tried to give Hulk or Juggs a pl.

[Comic Book Guy]

If the farmer could do a Kamahama he would I think he could destroy 1/28 of the moon.

He had a power level of 5. He should pull it off, from what power level states.

[Endless Mike]

Despite the fact that he displayed no powers, and every Kamehameha ever seen in the original Dragonball (except for that one) was nowhere near that powerful?

[Comic Book Guy]

Notice how no one has tried to give Hulk or Juggs a pl.

No one knows where to start.

[Endless Mike]

But not when it's used to show the difference in stength between 3 people of the same universe which we are using it for.That's why it was made,to show the difference in strength between 2 characters.Notice how no one has tried to give Hulk or Juggs a pl.

Your flawed ideas are that the PL is equal to the actual amount of damage they can do, and there's no evidence for this.

[superbatman86]

If the farmer could do a Kamahama he would I think he could destroy 1/28 of the moon.

He had a power level of 5. He should pull it off, from what power level states.That's my take on atleast.

[Endless Mike]

Vegeta wins this :laugh

Proof? Evidence? Reasoning? Anything?

[Comic Book Guy]

Proof? Evidence? Reasoning? Anything?

If the battle is to be won by ring-out, then Vegeta wins.

If the battle is to be won by death to either party, Vegeta exhausts himself in the long run.

[superbatman86]

Your flawed ideas are that the PL is equal to the actual amount of damage they can do, and there's no evidence for this.You flawed idea is that amount of damage isn't dictated by power level when everything says otherwise.Why do you think power levels were invented.To show that when someone at a certain power can cause so much damage that equal or stronger characters can do the same or more.

[Bro Tai Jr.]

Ok, everyone, Freeza can destroy a small planet easily, no buts about it, he is strong and he can do it. The point is that Vegeta is not like 50 times as strong as Freeza now, so he can destroy a large planet. Think back to the Buu saga when he killed himself to kill Buu he was only, what Super Sayan 2 and he put a huge dent in the planet? Now he can go SSJ4 or higher, I am not sure I haven't watch the series since he went SSJ4 anyways, now if he did that he probably would destroy the planet and all the stuff with in like 100+ miles. End of conversation about Vegeta being able or not being able to destroy a world. :notrust

[Endless Mike]

Proof? Evidence? Reasoning? Anything?

If the battle is to be won by ring-out, then Vegeta wins.

If the battle is to be won by death to either party, Vegeta exhausts himself in the long run.

You're forgetting that Juggernaut doesn't need a solid surface to walk on.

[Endless Mike]

You flawed idea is that amount of damage isn't dictated by power level when everything says otherwise.Why do you think power levels were invented.To show that when someone at a certain power can cause so much damage that equal or stronger characters can do the same or more.

No, it was just a system to give a rough idea of how much stronger characters were than each other. The actual observed damage compared to the PL is inconsistent.

[Renegade]

Umm... since you love your wiki articles so much, how about you wiki "Dragon Ball canon" and then get back to me on that.

Edit: Wrong person. But still... wiki that article.
Well I did just that, and found this little statement:

These levels of canon are closely stacked: there are almost no instances of events in the manga not appearing in the anime

[Endless Mike]

Which is irrelevant, since we're not talking about manga scenes that weren't in the anime, we're talking about anime scenes that weren't in the manga.

[superbatman86]

No, it was just a system to give a rough idea of how much stronger characters were than each other. The actual observed damage compared to the PL is inconsistent.No it's not.When is the damage not equivalant to power level?

[Keollyn]

Well I did just that, and found this little statement:

Thus you need to show me where Frieza destroyed a planet other than Namek IN THE MANGA. Once you do, I'll concede.

[Renegade]

You've just copy - and - pasted this post from your previous posts, and it's not anymore true now than it was then.

Numbers are only meaningful when they actually have a basis in fact. There is no basis for DBZ power levels, other than "higher number = stronger fighter".

It's useless for cross - universe comparisons.
Not useless though when comparing fighters within the DBZverse (Vegeta and Roshi).

[Comic Book Guy]

It is an adaption.

[Renegade]

Thus you need to show me where Frieza destroyed a planet other than Namek IN THE MANGA. Once you do, I'll concede.
Fine, give me a while. :noworry

[Phenomenol]

You've just copy - and - pasted this post from your previous posts, and it's not anymore true now than it was then.

Numbers are only meaningful when they actually have a basis in fact. There is no basis for DBZ power levels, other than "higher number = stronger fighter".

It's useless for cross - universe comparisons.

I know what the hell I wrote...

If we go by the numbers alone your argument is then shot to hell. THATS why you don't want to use them. For example,You want to go by feats despite the fact that supes has been around alot longer, has faaaarrrr and way many more appearances and is an american hero. Ie the stories that supes appears in allows his feats to be shown more. Example were never going to see Goku lift an ocean liner or even attempt to, WHY? Because Goku just isn't a typical super hero, he doesn't typically go around rescuing people and when he does fight he uses martial arts and and doesn't lift huge objects to lob at people. He doesn't fly into space to take on gaint machine and doomsday weapons. Thats NOT GOKU and thats not the way Dragonball stories work. So you go by thre number of feats to give Supes AUTOMATIC advantage which is fine. But then you want to throw out the power level argument which is a BIG part of Dragonball lore because it gives people who choose Goku an advantage. As for your not relaible garbage, of course they ARE realible its just that after Trunks appears we no loinger have any poffiual numbers. The officila numbers are just that OFFICIAL. So there is no point in arguing about.

[Endless Mike]

No it's not.When is the damage not equivalant to power level?

Farmer.

Vegeta's suicide.

[Endless Mike]

*snip*

I see one big appeal to motive fallacy, but no actual arguments.....

[Phenomenol]

Because you can not Refute it and it is the truth.

[Endless Mike]

I'm the one who debunked your argument, and you're not providing any arguments against it, you're just resorting to appeal to motive fallacies.

By all rights, you should be banned for using fallacies like that.

[Phenomenol]

You did not debunk anything you just have no answer for what's at the table.

[Endless Mike]

Farmer.

Vegeta's suicide.

Picollo Daimao and Picollo Jr.'s attacks.

You do know that Toriyama dropped power levels after the Freiza saga because they made no sense, right?

[Phenomenol]

Farmer.

Vegeta's suicide.

Picollo Daimao and Picollo Jr.'s attacks.

You do know that Toriyama dropped power levels after the Freiza saga because they made no sense, right?

Power level is based on KI, Gokus power comes from KI so a power level gauges how much power he has in relation to other people in his universe. Ie a normal human in dragonball has a power level of 5.. So its very relevent.

[Endless Mike]

Way to ignore what I just said.

Not to mention there's another inconsistency: The turtle had a power level of 0.001 or something like that, and he still beat up some guys in one episode, so if an average human has a PL of 5, they would be thousands of times stronger, and not lose.

[superbatman86]

Farmer.

Vegeta's suicide.

Picollo Daimao and Picollo Jr.'s attacks.

You do know that Toriyama dropped power levels after the Freiza saga because they made no sense, right?If the farmer could do a kamahamaha I think he could do it.Vegeta controlled the attack the entire time and kept it focused until he died and had no more ki so the attack stopped.And what Picollo attacks?

[superbatman86]

Farmer.

Vegeta's suicide.

Picollo Daimao and Picollo Jr.'s attacks.

You do know that Toriyama dropped power levels after the Freiza saga because they made no sense, right?He dropped them because there was no longer a need for them since all the main characters except the androids could detect ki thus ridding the scouter of it's usefullness.

[Endless Mike]

Do you have any idea how much power that would be?

Hint: It's more power than any attack ever seen in Dragonball except for Roshi's moon - buster.

And how can Vegeta 'control' the attack if he's dead? If it was really planetbusting +, as soon as he died it would go out of control and destroy the earth.

And the Picollo thing refers to the fact that both versions of Picollo were supposedly stronger than Roshi, but their most powerful attacks didn't do anywhere near as much damage.

[superbatman86]

Do you have any idea how much power that would be?

Hint: It's more power than any attack ever seen in Dragonball except for Roshi's moon - buster.

And how can Vegeta 'control' the attack if he's dead? If it was really planetbusting +, as soon as he died it would go out of control and destroy the earth.

And the Picollo thing refers to the fact that both versions of Picollo were supposedly stronger than Roshi, but their most powerful attacks didn't do anywhere near as much damage.He wasn't dead DURING the attack.He died arter the attack because he had no energy left.You mean the Piccolo that waved his hand and destroyed a city or the Piccolo that blew th moon up with ease?Area attacks normally aren't as strong as a beam because the same energy is sread out instead of concentrated.

[Kuya]

Wow. I didn't think creating this thread would get so much attention. Feels good. Nice arguments on both sides everyone. Keep going.

[Havoc]

Wow. I didn't think creating this thread would get so much attention. Feels good. Nice arguments on both sides everyone. Keep going.


DBZ vs. Comic heroes general does this.

[Kuya]

DBZ vs. Comic heroes general does this.

Oh. I see i see.

[MegaManMario]

Can't Vegeta just destroy the planet, wouldn't that be an automatic win?

[Havoc]

Can't Vegeta just destroy the planet, wouldn't that be an automatic win?


Read the other pages.

[SoulTaker540]

Can't Vegeta just destroy the planet, wouldn't that be an automatic win?

Juggernaut wouldn't be affected,and I doubt War Hulk would as well,quite frankly only Vegeta would die.Anyway,I'm with Keollyn on Vegeta not being a planet buster in his saga.When the protector of Earth has to think about protecting it that is a red flag.

Vegeta's speed blitz isn't really going to do him good since he can't really hurt Juggernaut,and lets not forget in DBZ hth is the first form of combat.

[Hangatýr]

Fanboys ruin this forum.

The strongest thing Vegeta would be able to do is destroy the planet, but even if he was capable of such a thing, it'd only work in his disadvantage.

And for the nub that hasn't seen DBGT, don't just assume that SSJ4 is stronger that SSJ2. By comparisson of feats, SSJ4 is weaker.

[SoulTaker540]

Fanboys ruin this forum.

The strongest thing Vegeta would be able to do is destroy the planet, but even if he was capable of such a thing, it'd only work in his disadvantage.

And for the nub that hasn't seen DBGT, don't just assume that SSJ4 is stronger that SSJ2. By comparisson of feats, SSJ4 is weaker.

You're saying that even in SSJ 2 he isn't a planet buster?That is kind of wrong.When he fired the Final Flash at Cell it would have destroyed the planet if not for it being aimed at Cell,that was the statement of Krillin and Trunks.So lets not say that destroying a planet is not feasible for post-Freeza saga Vegeta.

[Havoc]

You're saying that even in SSJ 2 he isn't a planet buster?That is kind of wrong.When he fired the Final Flash at Cell it would have destroyed the planet if not for it being aimed at Cell,that was the statement of Krillin and Trunks.So lets not say that destroying a planet is not feasible for post-Freeza saga Vegeta.

No that's not what he's saying.

[SoulTaker540]

The "even if" part made it seem like he was a bit skeptical of Vegeta's ability to be a planet buster.

[Hangatýr]

Vegeta never did bust a planet in canon. He claimed to be able to in the Saiyin Saga, he never did. Others claimed that he would with his Final Flash, he never did. Same with Cell, he claimed to be able to destroy the Solar System, never saw that happen, how did we?

[SoulTaker540]

Vegeta never did bust a planet in canon. He claimed to be able to in the Saiyin Saga, he never did. Others claimed that he would with his Final Flash, he never did. Same with Cell, he claimed to be able to destroy the Solar System, never saw that happen, how did we?

The difference between those instances is that only Vegeta and Cell stated it,the Final Flash was backed up by Trunks and Krillen.

[Hangatýr]

Well, I have yet to see any omniscient and infallible DBZ character.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Fanboys ruin this forum.

The strongest thing Vegeta would be able to do is destroy the planet, but even if he was capable of such a thing, it'd only work in his disadvantage.

And for the nub that hasn't seen DBGT, don't just assume that SSJ4 is stronger that SSJ2. By comparisson of feats, SSJ4 is weaker.

Well Goku performed a physical feat greater than any other form (aka lifting up a city). Against Super 17 they were just idiots:
*ss4 Goku and 17 punch up a bit*
Goku: Hmm I seem to be able to hurt you a bit like this way, I'll finish you with a kamehameha!
*Does a Kamehameha x100 or w/e which 17 absorbs and looks even stronger
Goku: Hmmmm that didn't seem right, I'll try it again to be sure
*Goku does another one which 17 absorbs and gets even stronger
Goku: Ok third time lucky
*Goku does another one and makes 17 far stronger than him*
Goku: Hmmmm. Something tells me that I should stop doing kamehamehas

[Hangatýr]

SSJ3 Goku feats seemed stronger than SSJ4 Goku feats, but that might just be me.

[Renegade]

Thus you need to show me where Frieza destroyed a planet other than Namek IN THE MANGA. Once you do, I'll concede.
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9669/22078cq4.gifBy the end of the Buu saga, Vegeta's Ki FAR surpasses Frieza's. Since Frieza used his Ki to destroy planets, naturaly this means Vegeta has the capability of destroying planets aswell. Simple as that.

Now will you please leave this case to rest.

[Hangatýr]

It doesn't show Frieza destroying a planet, try again.

[Kagutsuchi]

Who cares if Vegeta can destroy planets? It doesn't matter cause Juggernaut would be unaffected.

[Hangatýr]

They argue that Vegeta would have more physical power than the HULK and could thus defeat the two in hand to hand combat, or something like that.

[Renegade]

They argue that Vegeta would have more physical power than the HULK and could thus defeat the two in hand to hand combat, or something like that.
It's to support that Vegeta's Ki exceeds or atleast matches The Hulk's strength.

It doesn't show Frieza destroying a planet, try again.
We have it actually being shown in the anime. We have Dodoria, Zarbon, and Frieza stating it. He destroyed planet Namek, so we know he was capable of destroying planet Vegeta. If that's not enough evidence to convince you that Frieza destroyed it, than you can think whatever the hell you want, because apparently nothing gets through to you.

[Hangatýr]

No, you argued that Vegeta could destroy a planet with just his finger.

[Kagutsuchi]

So far, I don't think we've seen any serious business strength feats from Vegeta aside from being in that gravity machine.

It doesn't matter if his Ki can harm the Hulk, even if he dies Juggernaut is unstoppable.

Don't you know who I am?! I'm the Juggernaut bitch!

[Hangatýr]

The Hulk has the greatest regen in Marvel, and War Hulk has armor from Apocalypse, I think.

But yeah, even one on one, it's overkill.

[konflikti]

War-Hulk is most likely in a similar level of invulnerability as classic Juggs thanks to his Celestial enchantments. And probably somewhat stronger(physically stopping Juggernaut, which is supposedly impossible).

Another thing about him was Absorbing Man trying to absorb his sword and ended up exploding. Talk about elite gear. =D

[Final Ultima]

Freeza did indeed destroy planet Vegeta, and Vegeta in the Saiya-jin saga probably did have enough power in his Garlic-hou to pierce through the Earth's core (seeing as they're both stated and not contradicted...in fact they're supported by the comments of other characters), but I don't see why this is being discussed anyway...it's not like his potential ability to destroy planets back in the Saiya-jin saga will help him in this fight.

And while this is a bit late...there's no way in hell that Vegeta has as much physical strength as Hulk, let alone War Hulk. Goku was shown to struggle with 40 tons in base form by the Boo saga, and if battle power is as linear a reading as people claim (for instance, according to Babidi's killa readings, Super Saiya-jin Goku was 3.75x stronger than Yakon, who was fighting reasonably well with base Goku), then there's no way, even with so many transformations...that any Dragon Ball character will be able to match 150 billion tons.

[Hangatýr]

* One hundred and fifty billions tons.

[Final Ultima]

Oops, yeah, edited.

[Jin22]

And while this is a bit late...there's no way in hell that Vegeta has as much physical strength as Hulk, let alone War Hulk. Goku was shown to struggle with 40 tons in base form by the Boo saga, and if battle power is as linear a reading as people claim (for instance, according to Babidi's killa readings, Super Saiya-jin Goku was 3.75x stronger than Yakon, who was fighting reasonably well with base Goku), then there's no way, even with so many transformations...that any Dragon Ball character will be able to match 150 billion tons.Man oh man, I'm starting to get a headache every time I read something even similar to this in this forum. :nuts

Not that I disagree of course.

[Endless Mike]

He wasn't dead DURING the attack.He died arter the attack because he had no energy left.You mean the Piccolo that waved his hand and destroyed a city or the Piccolo that blew th moon up with ease?Area attacks normally aren't as strong as a beam because the same energy is sread out instead of concentrated.

And after he died, the energy would have exploded and destroyed the earth if it really was that powerful. Energy doesn't just disappear.

And do you have any idea what you're saying? An attack powerful enough to destroy the moon would take a large chunk out of the earth, no matter how it was distributed.

[superbatman86]

And after he died, the energy would have exploded and destroyed the earth if it really was that powerful. Energy doesn't just disappear.

And do you have any idea what you're saying? An attack powerful enough to destroy the moon would take a large chunk out of the earth, no matter how it was distributed.Actually no it wouldn't because there was no energy left that's why he died.Not neccesarily.When piccolo and roshie blow up the moon the have a more or less head on shot.But when the same attack is fired on earth at someone the curve of the earth prevents it from hiting straight.Unless they attack straight down or at a extremely steep angle a lot of the power only skims the planet.

[Endless Mike]

Actually no it wouldn't because there was no energy left that's why he died.Not neccesarily.When piccolo and roshie blow up the moon the have a more or less head on shot.But when the same attack is fired on earth at someone the curve of the earth prevents it from hiting straight.Unless they attack straight down or at a extremely steep angle a lot of the power only skims the planet.

No energy left?

You have a lot of trouble with basic concepts.

Here, let me explain it:

According to you, Vegeta's suicide attack was planet - busting +.
But when it was released, it only created a crater a few kilometers wide.
If the attack was really that powerful, where did all the extra energy go? It couldn't just disappear.

And you are really not understanding the magnitude of these things. Unless you're arguing that 99.9999999999999% of the energy from Picollo's attacks was shot into space (something for which there is no evidence, and it wouldn't make sense from a plot perspective either), then what was shown was not anywhere near enough energy to destroy the moon.

[superbatman86]

No energy left?

You have a lot of trouble with basic concepts.

Here, let me explain it:

According to you, Vegeta's suicide attack was planet - busting +.
But when it was released, it only created a crater a few kilometers wide.
If the attack was really that powerful, where did all the extra energy go? It couldn't just disappear.

And you are really not understanding the magnitude of these things. Unless you're arguing that 99.9999999999999% of the energy from Picollo's attacks was shot into space (something for which there is no evidence, and it wouldn't make sense from a plot perspective either), then what was shown was not anywhere near enough energy to destroy the moon.It was never "released".It was contained the entire time.It didn't expand after he died because it had no feul left.It's like fire as long as there's O2 it will burn but take it away and it goes out.Without Vegeta's continuos energy supply to feed it no longer had anything to use so it dissapated.Piccolo wasn't trying to do major damage to the planet he wanted to conquer it.

[Keollyn]

Freeza did indeed destroy planet Vegeta, and Vegeta in the Saiya-jin saga probably did have enough power in his Garlic-hou to pierce through the Earth's core (seeing as they're both stated and not contradicted...in fact they're supported by the comments of other characters), but I don't see why this is being discussed anyway...it's not like his potential ability to destroy planets back in the Saiya-jin saga will help him in this fight.

And while this is a bit late...there's no way in hell that Vegeta has as much physical strength as Hulk, let alone War Hulk. Goku was shown to struggle with 40 tons in base form by the Boo saga, and if battle power is as linear a reading as people claim (for instance, according to Babidi's killa readings, Super Saiya-jin Goku was 3.75x stronger than Yakon, who was fighting reasonably well with base Goku), then there's no way, even with so many transformations...that any Dragon Ball character will be able to match 150 billion tons.

We know Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta.... it's the HOW that we're concerned with. Did he mimic what he did to Namek, or did he just one shot it? The Bardock special or the Burori movie doesn't help as they're not canon.

[Endless Mike]

It was never "released".It was contained the entire time.It didn't expand after he died because it had no feul left.It's like fire as long as there's O2 it will burn but take it away and it goes out.Without Vegeta's continuos energy supply to feed it no longer had anything to use so it dissapated.Piccolo wasn't trying to do major damage to the planet he wanted to conquer it.

Energy doesn't just 'go out'. It has to go somewhere. Where did it go?

[EvilMoogle]

Essentially, Juggernaut is the living embodiment of hate and Hulk is the living embodiment of anger.

If this is a fight to the death they win because nothing can kill them and eventually Vegeta will die of old age if nothing else.

If it's to KO, I'll buy that Vegeta has a chance, but it still seems very very slim to me. Hulk's hit Silver Surfer with a thrown rock before so I think he can take Vegeta.

[Renegade]

No, you argued that Vegeta could destroy a planet with just his finger.
Uhh... I never said that...:huh

I said Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta using a Ki blast generated from the tip of his index finger. Vegeta, far surpassing Frieza in both strength and Ki by the end of the Buu saga, could easily accomplish pretty much anything Frieza has done, including being able to destroy a planet.

[Hangatýr]

Is that so?
Well I remember Freiza being able to blow up a planet with a single finger, and with pretty much no effort. By the end of the Buu saga, Vegata's power far surpasses Frieza's. So i'm pretty sure Vegeta is more than able to destroy a planet with ease (using this as a measure of strength).
You were saying?

[Renegade]

Is that so?

You were saying?
How is that saying Vegeta can destroy a planet with his finger? It's just saying he can destroy a planet. Let me rephraze that first sentance for you though, I may have worded it poorly.

Well I remember Freiza being able to blow up a planet using a ki bomb generated with a single finger.

[Hangatýr]

You were also arguing that Vegeta can match punches with Juggernaut and Hulk, and even lift what the Hulk was lifting.

[Renegade]

You were also arguing that Vegeta can match punches with Juggernaut and Hulk,
He can, but not in the litteral sense.

and even lift what the Hulk was lifting
I may have been mistaken on that. W/e though, I said that tiiime ago, it's not even what we're discussing currently.

[Hangatýr]

The battle's pretty clear to me, Vegeta will die before either War II or Juggernaut does.

[Renegade]

Freeza did indeed destroy planet Vegeta, and Vegeta in the Saiya-jin saga probably did have enough power in his Garlic-hou to pierce through the Earth's core (seeing as they're both stated and not contradicted...in fact they're supported by the comments of other characters), but I don't see why this is being discussed anyway...it's not like his potential ability to destroy planets back in the Saiya-jin saga will help him in this fight.
It's to provide support that Vegeta's Ki exceeds The Hulk's or Juggernaut's strength. As you stated, even base Vegeta was probably able to destroy the earth during the Saiyan saga. Now fast track through the whole DBZ series up to the point where he is Super Saiyan 2. Imagine the difference in genereal power between these two scenarios. I'm sure by the end of the Buu saga, he is able to accomplish far more than destroying a single planet.

[SoulTaker540]

Has Vegeta ever destroyed something twice as big as Earth?How is a planet busting attack going to get Juggernaut down and out for the count if he can regen from nothing?If Vegeta gets tagged by War Hulk he is down,and he can't outlast the Juggernaut.

[Hangatýr]

Speculation on the pro-Vegeta camp, mostly.

[Final Ultima]

You do realise that most Dragon Ball villains; when not blowing themselves up, generally attempt to blow up planets by piercing the planet's core with a ki beam? The weakest canon villain shown to have the strength to be able to completely eradicate a planet with a ki blast as opposed to just drilling through it is Kid Boo (Cell boasts that his ki is great enough to destroy the solar system, but that could be interpreted in more than one way, and it likely just a hyperbole).

So how exactly would an increase in ki also increase the severity of a planet piercing attack, provided it worked in the first place? It's not like the blast will wrap around and pierce every other planet in the near vacinity.

[Renegade]

You do realise that most Dragon Ball villains; when not blowing themselves up, generally attempt to blow up planets by piercing the planet's core with a ki beam? The weakest canon villain shown to have the strength to be able to completely eradicate a planet with a ki blast as opposed to just drilling through it is Kid Boo.

So how exactly would an increase in ki also increase the severity of a planet piercing attack, provided it worked in the first place? It's not like the blast will wrap around and pierce every other planet in the near vacinity.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/95/Vegeta's_Destruction.jpg/300px-Vegeta's_Destruction.jpg

A bit more than a planet peircing attack no?

[Hangatýr]

Still don't see a manga-screen of that.

[Keollyn]

Likewise..

[Renegade]

Still don't see a manga-screen of that.
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/3618/untitled1copyqh6.png

:shifty

[Shiron]

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/3618/untitled1copyqh6.png

:shifty Hmm, do my eyes decieve me, or does this appear to be just a greyscaled version of the pic? :P

[Renegade]

Hmm, do my eyes decieve me, or does this appear to be just a greyscaled version of the pic? :P
I will never tell!

*Runs away, but after taking 3 steps, trips over a rock and falls on face*

[Giovanni Rild]

juggernaut is Invincible, The one and only thing that can harm him is Magic. And I haven't seen Vegeta don a sorcerer's gown yet

[Comic Book Guy]

juggernaut is Invincible, The one and only thing that can harm him is Magic.

And Onslaught.

[superbatman86]

And none of this explains how they stop from getting blasted off the planet before they can form a thought.

[Comic Book Guy]

And none of this explains how they stop from getting blasted off the planet before they can form a thought.

Depends whether ki blasts or beams can overcome Juggernaut's momentum field.

And neither of them will die in space -- Juggernaut doesn't need to breathe and apparently, as of New Avengers Illuminati, Hulk doesn't need a breathing apparatus.

[Giovanni Rild]

And none of this explains how they stop from getting blasted off the planet before they can form a thought.

Juggernaut has limitless strength, Immortalitly, Immobile unless he wants to move, when he moves he cannot be stopped unless he wants to be.

Only magic can hurt him, powerful magic at that, meaning vegeta can't kill him it's immpossible.

Telepathic attacks can render him unconscious, but can't kill him.

The only thing vegeta has on juggernaut is flight and speed, that'll help vegeta keep away from juggernaut while juggernaut hunts vegeta down till vegeta dies. Blowing up the damn planet won't do a damn thing

[Endless Mike]

Not to mention Juggernaut doesn't need a solid surface to walk on.

[Hangatýr]

And none of this explains how they stop from getting blasted off the planet before they can form a thought.
You need an extraordinairy ammount of force to move the Juggernaut, and Vegeta will have to power-up such an attack before he can use it.

[Kuya]

You need an extraordinairy ammount of force to move the Juggernaut, and Vegeta will have to power-up such an attack before he can use it.

Would Final Flash do it?

[Hangatýr]

I doubt it.

[Giovanni Rild]

Unless Final Flash is magic, which it isn't nope.

Juugernaut can only harmed by magic or some other supernatural force. Ki isn't a supernatural force or magic.

It's part of every living being in certain anime like ranma, it's called chakra in naruto, different from "sprit power" from yu yu hakusho.

In most cases, sprit power comes from another source and can harm beings who are physically invulnerable like juggernaut.

But Ki comes from within and therefore a worldly power and cannot harm beings like juggernaut

[SoulTaker540]

Telepathy is a worldly power and the last time I checked that took Juggs down.In any case you are right about Vegeta not being able to take down Juggs.Vegeta can't fight forever but Juggernaut can.

[superbatman86]

Energy doesn't just 'go out'. It has to go somewhere. Where did it go?It dissapates because it no longer has a fuel source to sustain it.

[superbatman86]

You need an extraordinairy ammount of force to move the Juggernaut, and Vegeta will have to power-up such an attack before he can use it.Well since Vegeta is able to attack before Juggs or hulk can even form a thought let alone move or put a sheid they still get blasted off the planet with ease.You only need that kind of force when he's braced for an attack otherwise you just have to be able to move his weight.

[Hangatýr]

I doubt it, Vegeta needs to actually POWER UP his blasts, bub. Juggs is protected by a cosmic being, not the powerless kind of DBZ, but a powerful being, the shield is always there. You need to be able to put in far more than 150 billion tons of pressure to even STOP Juggs, let alone move him.

And even then, they can just roll off of his beam.

[konflikti]

Well since Vegeta is able to attack before Juggs or hulk can even form a thought let alone move or put a sheid they still get blasted off the planet with ease.You only need that kind of force when he's braced for an attack otherwise you just have to be able to move his weight.

As often as Vegeta starts fight by trying to blast his opponent straight off the planet, do Hulk and Juggs start their fighting without knowing they are fighting and relaxing.

Your plan is totally OOC, and dependant on the fact that Juggs doesn't have shield up, which is always up.

[superbatman86]

I doubt it, Vegeta needs to actually POWER UP his blasts, bub. Juggs is protected by a cosmic being, not the powerless kind of DBZ, but a powerful being, the shield is always there. You need to be able to put in far more than 150 billion tons of pressure to even STOP Juggs, let alone move him.

And even then, they can just roll off of his beam.His sheild isn't always on.He has to think to activate it.And not really because Vegeta has always been able to quilkly make poweful blasts.

[Comic Book Guy]

His sheild isn't always on.He has to think to activate it.

Last time I read up on Juggernaut before Cyttorak denounced him as its avatar, it was always on 24/7.

[superbatman86]

As often as Vegeta starts fight by trying to blast his opponent straight off the planet, do Hulk and Juggs start their fighting without knowing they are fighting and relaxing.

Your plan is totally OOC, and dependant on the fact that Juggs doesn't have shield up, which is always up.And when has Juggs or Hulk ever started a fight using super speed?And it's not always up how do think people have thrown him around before.You know like Onslaught punching him from Canada to New York.Yup,that sheild worked great there.

[Hangatýr]

And since when does Vegeta come even CLOSE to Onslaught?

[konflikti]

And when has Juggs or Hulk ever started a fight using super speed?And it's not always up how do think people have thrown him around before.You know like Onslaught punching him from Canada to New York.Yup,that sheild worked great there.

I'm not saying that they have. It's just that your scenario consists of Vegeta knowing that he cannot harm 'em, charging up blast to throw them off the planet since he inherently knows the only possible way to win and Hulk and Juggs just standing there. Which I find to be rather unlikely scenario.

[superbatman86]

I'm not saying that they have. It's just that your scenario consists of Vegeta knowing that he cannot harm 'em, charging up blast to throw them off the planet since he inherently knows the only possible way to win and Hulk and Juggs just standing there. Which I find to be rather unlikely scenario.The thing is that all they can do is stand around.They simply lack the speed to do anything else.Vegeta could go h2h beat them around a bit realize he's not doing anything to really damage them and is just knocking them around and then resort to ki attacks to blast them away like Goku did to him when they fought.

[Hangatýr]

Except Hulk and Juggernaut are a bit harder to blast off then Vegeta was, not to mention that Juggernaut can just walk back to earth.

And don't try to compare Vegeta to Onslaught.

[superbatman86]

And since when does Vegeta come even CLOSE to Onslaught?In terms of physical destruction what has onslaught without FR or Nate done to compare him to Vegeta?And this doesn't mean that I think Vegeta would win because he would lose horribly but not do to Onslaughts physical prowess.

[superbatman86]

Except Hulk and Juggernaut are a bit harder to blast off then Vegeta was, not to mention that Juggernaut can just walk back to earth.

And don't try to compare Vegeta to Onslaught.How are they harder?Actually they would be easier because they a)can't defend themselves because they are too slow and b)are unable to fly.And how long do you think it would take Juggs to walk back.And I'm not comparing them overall because Onslaught would well slaughter Vegeta but what I am comparing is the power between their physical abilities to do damage and the fact that Juggs wasn't thrown into space means Onslaughts punch does't measure up to Vegeta's energy blasts.

[Hangatýr]

Do you have any proof that Vegeta's energy blast will be so powerful that they would be able to move the Juggernaut?

[superbatman86]

Do you have any proof that Vegeta's energy blast will be so powerful that they would be able to move the Juggernaut?The fact that they can destroy planets?And since it has taken much less to move Juggs before I'd say they are more than powerful enough.

[Hangatýr]

Less to move Juggs? You call War Hulk and Onslaught's physical strength much less?

And Vegeta being able to destroy planets is SPECULATION, he has never done it in canon, EVER.

[superbatman86]

Less to move Juggs? You call War Hulk and Onslaught's physical strength much less?

And Vegeta being able to destroy planets is SPECULATION, he has never done it in canon, EVER.It's not speculation after the Freeza saga.Yes and since Thor has moved Juggs, as has Gladiator and Thing,And Normal Hulk AND Iceman AND Magneto I thin it's safe to say he can be moved with enough force.

[Comic Book Guy]

Cyclops hit Juggernaut with his optic blasts that were powerful enough to destroy a small moon. Cain simply stood there, and walked closer.

One comparison.

[superbatman86]

Cyclops hit Juggernaut with his optic blasts that were powerful enough to destroy a small moon. Cain simply stood there, and walked closer.

One comparison.Because he was ready for them.That's kinda the point.If he knows somethings coming it's damn near impossible to move him if he doesn't want to be moved,but when caught off gaurd he can be moved.

[Hangatýr]

And what about Cyttorak knowing something will happen? I do recall Cyttorak being the reason for the shield.

[Comic Book Guy]

Because he was ready for them.That's kinda the point.If he knows somethings coming it's damn near impossible to move him if he doesn't want to be moved,but when caught off gaurd he can be moved.

Understandable.

Although, I do't really see how Vegeta would win the battle if it were to be won if either party dies. Vegeta would have a far better chance to win the battle if it were to be won by ring-out.

[superbatman86]

Because he was ready for them.That's kinda the point.If he knows somethings coming it's damn near impossible to move him if he doesn't want to be moved,but when caught off gaurd he can be moved.

Understandable.

Although, I do't really see how Vegeta would win the battle if it were to be won if either party dies. Vegeta would have a far better chance to win the battle if it were to be won by ring-out.And I completely agree.I never said he could kill either just get them so far away it would take a lifetime to get back.

[Renegade]

Juggernaut has limitless strength, Immortalitly, Immobile unless he wants to move, when he moves he cannot be stopped unless he wants to be.

Only magic can hurt him, powerful magic at that, meaning vegeta can't kill him it's immpossible.

Telepathic attacks can render him unconscious, but can't kill him.

The only thing vegeta has on juggernaut is flight and speed, that'll help vegeta keep away from juggernaut while juggernaut hunts vegeta down till vegeta dies. Blowing up the damn planet won't do a damn thing
Again though, he has never been pitted against an opponent as powerful as Vegeta, so there is nothing to base that on.

Would Final Flash do it?
Easily. His most powerful attack second to his desperate attack would do more than move the juggernaut, it would destroy him. This is a planet destroying attack, which could probably do even more than destroy a planet. It could probably take out a small star. Especially if he's SSJ 2. Juggernaut doesn't stand a chance against it.

[Comic Book Guy]

Easily. His most powerful attack second to his desperate attack would do more than move the juggernaut, it would destroy him. This is a planet destroying attack, which could probably do even more than destroy a planet. It could probably destroy a small star. Especially if he's SSJ 2. Juggernaut doesn't stand a chance against it.

You severely underestimate the power of Cyttorak.

[Renegade]

Easily. His most powerful attack second to his desperate attack would do more than move the juggernaut, it would destroy him. This is a planet destroying attack, which could probably do even more than destroy a planet. It could probably destroy a small star. Especially if he's SSJ 2. Juggernaut doesn't stand a chance against it.

You severely underestimate the power of Cyttorak.
Or maybe you underistimate the power of a Super Saiyan.

[Hangatýr]

No, it's pretty much you over-estimating Vegeta.

[TheFlameAlchemist]

Hoyl moly, it seems I've tied it by voting for Vegeta, why did I vote for him? Vegeta can fly, shoot little energy balls from the sky? Big Bang pl0x? Or how much exploding himself... woot...

[Renegade]

Has Juggernaut ever defeated an opponent that has the power to destroy a planet?