Vegeta (any) vs. War Hulk and Juggernaught

[Endless Mike]

Um.... no it wasn't.

The explosion took the form of a dome that expanded and then dissipated.

No energy was ever seen flying into space.

[Renegade]

Um.... no it wasn't.

The explosion took the form of a dome that expanded and then dissipated.

No energy was ever seen flying into space.
The dome expanded from the surface of the earth, half of the dome creating a crator on the earth, and the other half just expanded to open space.

Had it been actually sent towards the earth, it would have destroyed it.

[Giovanni Rild]

I'm going to sleep. I won't be missing much. Disagreements,

Phenomenol's crap.

And Phenomenol.

Juggernaut is Invincible, Immortal and Unmovable. Even if you don't want him to be. Cya later chump

[Comic Book Guy]

Sound? The sonic waves would tear the earth apart.

Is it possible for sound waves of that kind of magnitude to rip the planet apart? If so, would there be anything that could produce such sound?

Look at all ofyour post in this thread it has been bias towards Vegeta.

Actually, it should be 'against'. Biased towards (person) means favouring. Unless I'm mistaken, feel free to correct me, anyone.

[Renegade]

Juggernaut is Invincible, Immortal and Unmovable.
Not unmovable, he's been moved...

[Phenomenol]

I'm going to sleep. I won't be missing much. Disagreements,

Phenomenol's crap.

And Phenomenol.

Juggernaut is Invincible, Immortal and Unmovable. Even if you don't want him to be. Cya later chump


Our school systems are failing us....:noworry

[Giovanni Rild]

Not unmovable, he's been moved...

Forgot. Vegeta still can't kill him. G'night

[Phenomenol]

Forgot. Vegeta still can't kill him. G'night

You post like your on Med!

Know one is debating about Vegeta killing Juggs, when is that going to get through your head NO ONE CAN KILL JUGGERNAUT, and I MEAN NO ONE!!!

[Endless Mike]

Is it possible for sound waves of that kind of magnitude to rip the planet apart? If so, would there be anything that could produce such sound?

Considering sound waves will propagate through matter, whether it's gas, liquid, or solid, sufficient sound waves could rip the earth apart.

As for what would produce something like that, I have no idea.

[Comic Book Guy]

Considering sound waves will propagate through matter, whether it's gas, liquid, or solid, sufficient sound waves could rip the earth apart.

Makes sense.

As for what would produce something like that, I have no idea.

Well, in comics. . . ever hear of Black Bolt?

[Renegade]

Considering sound waves will propagate through matter, whether it's gas, liquid, or solid, sufficient sound waves could rip the earth apart.

As for what would produce something like that, I have no idea.
Kind of like sound breaking glass. Just need strong enough sound waves to do it. Not sure if the sound waves produced from a ki blast would cause the earth to explode though. I highly doubt it. It's usually the heat, and kinetic energy of an explosion that does the most damage.

[Endless Mike]

Well, in comics. . . ever hear of Black Bolt?

Good point, he could definitely do it.

[Suzumebachi]

You post like your on Med!

Know one is debating about Vegeta killing Juggs, when is that going to get through your head NO ONE CAN KILL JUGGERNAUT, and I MEAN NO ONE!!!

Then why do you argue that Vegeta wins? A win is Vegeta killing Hulk and Juggernaut.

[Renegade]

You post like your on Med!

Know one is debating about Vegeta killing Juggs, when is that going to get through your head NO ONE CAN KILL JUGGERNAUT, and I MEAN NO ONE!!!
Not unless he's subjected to a distructive ki blast capable of completely disintegrating his body.

[Suzumebachi]

Not unless he's subjecting to a distructive ki blast capable of completely disintegrating his body.

From which he will regenerate. Juggernaut can come back from nothingness.

[Endless Mike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a3SFQWrbYw

Here's a video of Vegeta's final attack.

As you can see, none of it went into space.

[Comic Book Guy]

Not unless he's subjecting to a distructive ki blast capable of completely disintegrating his body.

I sincerely doubt that.

Hell, he fought and regen'd from being an invunerable skeleton once.

[Endless Mike]

Not unless he's subjecting to a distructive ki blast capable of completely disintegrating his body.

Power of Cytorrak, kid.

No ki blast will defeat a reality - warping cosmic's protection.

[Phenomenol]

Then why do you argue that Vegeta wins? A win is Vegeta killing Hulk and Juggernaut.

The HULK can Die and Vegeta CAN KILL the Hulk with KI !

The Juggernaut Can NOT die so the only way for Vegeta defeating JUggs is Blasting him off the planet!

You CAN NOT KILL JUGGERNAUT! only way to beat him is remove him from play and disable him.

I thought you already knew this?:huh

[Endless Mike]

He can't kill War Hulk. Celestial technology has given him a cosmic powerup.

[Suzumebachi]

The HULK can Die and Vegeta CAN KILL the Hulk with KI !

The Juggernaut Can NOT die so the only way for Vegeta defeating JUggs is Blasting him off the planet!

You CAN NOT KILL JUGGERNAUT! only way to beat him is remove him from play and disable him.

I thought you already knew this?:huh

There is no remove from play, I don't know why you say there is.

[exmorte]

Juggernaut traditionally possessed huge power, of mystical origin. He had tremendous physical strength, a total resistance to physical injury due to his mystic spell of invulnerability; an impenetrable force field that he could summon at will; and unlimited stamina. His spell also granted him unbreakable skin, therefore making his forcefield an added protection in case he did not wish for a certain attack to touch his physical body. Due to the mystical energies flowing through his body, he did not need to eat, breathe, or drink fluids.

Unbreakable skin, and a impenetrable force field? Could you really disentigrate him? I mean and a total resistance to injury. I dont think its possible to kill him at ALL, without removing the gem of cytorrak which is bonded to Jug's Soul. I dont think vegeta could remove something from Jugs Soul. So Since jugs cannot be killed this fight is either draw or win for Juggerhulk. Since there is no Draw option, the only one left is JUGGERHULK.

[Comic Book Guy]

Most battles in the OB assume that the battle is to the death, is it not?

[Phenomenol]

The thread creator said no such thing.

The thread creator OBVIOUSLY knew that Vegeta's only way of defeating Juggs is blasting him off the planet.

[Suzumebachi]

The thread creator said no such thing.

The thread creator OBVIOUSLY knew that Vegeta's only way of defeating Juggs is blasting him off the planet.

Nor did the thread creator say that it wasn't a battle to the death.

You need to stop. You've done nothing but spew bullshit.

[Giovanni Rild]

Nor did the thread creator say that it wasn't a battle to the death.

You need to stop. You've done nothing but spew bullshit.

Yes!! someone besides me has seen this. I can go to sleep happy now.

[Phenomenol]

Nor did the thread creator say that it wasn't a battle to the death.

You need to stop. You've done nothing but spew bullshit.

So it works both way's then. How have I spewd crap?:huh You have yet to refute anything...

[Envy]

I like seeing how I was gone for 30 minutes and the thread gains three pages.

[Suzumebachi]

So it works both way's then. How have I spewd crap?:huh You have yet to refute anything...

Goku is class 100 because he took hits from Tao?

[Phenomenol]

Goku is class 100 because he took hits from Tao?

Damn, nice way to ignore all of the OTHER evidence that I posted to support that claim. You know you have no argument when you have to stoop so low. Go actually read what the hell I said you fool.

You don't know a damn thing about Comics anyway, you have yet to post a solid post with some substance pertaining to these characters. :amazed

[Envy]

You post like your on Med!

Know one is debating about Vegeta killing Juggs, when is that going to get through your head NO ONE CAN KILL JUGGERNAUT, and I MEAN NO ONE!!!

Just another post that proves you can't read for shit. Also, you're the one in the country with the failing educational system. 1) You can't even spell "no" right and 2) He said vegeta can't kill juggs. You just agreed with him.

[Suzumebachi]

You said Goku beat him, which means he's stronger than Tao, who you believe to be a class 100 because he can toss a pillar.

If thats not retarded bullshit, I don't know what is.

And if I recall right, the bomb got him, not Goku.

[Comic Book Guy]

I wonder how long this thread will be. . .

[Suzumebachi]

This is quoting you Phenomenol. YOU wrote this.



We know that, and thats one of the reasons we love Tao. But that's not class 100 strength, and beating class 100 doesn't mean you are class 100.

I don't recall them stopping in the middle of the fight to have a weight lifting contest or a column throwing match.


Goku PHYSICALLY outclassed Tao in their match Goku was unphased by a guys punches who has such incredible strength.

You still don't know how strong Goku is, all you are doing is assuming.

[Phenomenol]

Just another post that proves you can't read for shit. Also, you're the one in the country with the failing educational system. 1) You can't even spell "no" right and 2) He said vegeta can't kill juggernaught. You just agreed with him.


A minor error, everyone makes mistakes...

Yes I agreed with him because he is right! IF YOU KNEW ANY DAMN THING YOU FOOL, ANY DAMN THING AT ALL THE JUGGERNAUT CAN NOT BE KILLED!!!!

That's why I agreed..

Don't worry it is not your faultm you will just be another DAMN example!:)

[Renegade]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a3SFQWrbYw

Here's a video of Vegeta's final attack.

As you can see, none of it went into space.
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5550/desperatebm6.pngThe top half of it is going into open space...

[Phenomenol]

You said Goku beat him, which means he's stronger than Tao, who you believe to be a class 100 because he can toss a pillar.

If thats not retarded bullshit, I don't know what is.

And if I recall right, the bomb got him, not Goku.

Alright now I am a believer, you are just a damn idiot who Bitches and moans over crap that does not even matter.

I used DAMN examples from Dragonball to Support how strong characters were LATER IN THE DRAGONBALL Z UNIVERSE!!!!

You waste your posts and your time because all of your posts are unimportant. You have yet to provide a post with some DAMN SUBSTANCE! Put up or Shut up.

[Renegade]

Yes I agreed with him because he is right! IF YOU KNEW ANY DAMN THING YOU FOOL, ANY DAMN THING AT ALL THE JUGGERNAUT CAN NOT BE KILLED!!!!

That's why I agreed..
I don't mean to bud in, but you kind of contradicted yourself there. He said Vegeta could defeat the Juggernaut, you agreed with him, but then you say the Juggernaut cannot be killed.

:oh

[Endless Mike]

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5550/desperatebm6.pngThe top half of it is going into open space...

You need to get your eyes checked, because all I see is a dome - shaped explosion and nothing going into space.

[exmorte]

A minor error, everyone makes mistakes...

Yes I agreed with him because he is right! IF YOU KNEW ANY DAMN THING YOU FOOL, ANY DAMN THING AT ALL THE JUGGERNAUT CAN NOT BE KILLED!!!!

That's why I agreed..

Don't worry it is not your faultm you will just be another DAMN example!:)
So you agree that under the assumption that this is a fight to the death that vegeta would lose?

Or would it be a draw (which was not an option)?

Your arguements are based solely on the concept of a ring out, I will give you that if the ring out were an option vegeta has a Chance Of winning, however that is the only way for him to win.

Yet battledome fights tend to be to the death. Which does put juggernaut at an advantage in all battledome threads I know.


Also about the bold, I know Capslock is cruise control for awsome, yet it takes away from your credibility, just as little spelling errors that people nitpick at reduces your credibility. And in an argument Credibility is vital.

[Suzumebachi]

Alright now I am a believer, you are just a damn idiot who Bitches and moans over crap that does not even matter.

I used DAMN examples from Dragonball to Support how strongcharacters were LATER IN THE DRAGONBALL Z UNIVERSE!!!! I said LATER EASILY IN DBZ THEY ARE CLASS 100 and MORE.

You waste your posts and your time because all of your posts are unimportant. You have yet to provide a post with some DAMN SUBSTANCE! Put up or Shut up.

Read the thread.

[Renegade]

You need to get your eyes checked, because all I see is a dome - shaped explosion and nothing going into space.
... :huh

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5550/desperatebm6.pngThe bottom half of it is disintigrating the earth. The top half is visible, and expanding into open space...

What don't you understand? Maybe you're the one who needs to get his eyes checked.

[Phenomenol]

I don't mean to bud in, but you kind of contradicted yourself there. He said Vegeta could defeat the Juggernaut, you agreed with him, but then you say the Juggernaut cannot be killed.

:oh

No he SPECIFICALLY stated

Originally Posted by Éclair
He said vegeta can't kill juggernaught. You just agreed with him.

And he is right, because Vegeta can not kill the Juggernaut, Juggernaut can NOT DIE!

I can tell many of you have not read a damn Comic he is IMMORTAL DAMMIT!!!!!!!!

[Suzumebachi]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you that Juggs can't die.

People are disagreeing with that Vegeta would win though.

[Phenomenol]

Read the thread.

I just read the thread!,

All you do is insult people and the funny thing about you Suzumebachi you have NOT posted a post that has any substance at all.

That is alright you will just become a damn statistic and an example.:)

[Comic Book Guy]

He said Vegeta could defeat the Juggernaut, you agreed with him, but then you say the Juggernaut cannot be killed.

Well, defeat would translate as Juggernaut incapacitated -- buried under tons of rock for him to dig out of, for example.

Can the Juggernaut be defeated in this sense? Yes -- numerous times in comics.

Can the Juggernaut be killed? You have to be more powerful than Cyttorak himself to do it.

Or you could just do it AOA style.

Where Juggernaut died due to his conflicting thoughts of fighting and non-violence. Literally.

[Suzumebachi]

I just read the thread!,

All you do is insult people and the funny thing about you Suzumebachi you have NOT posted a post that has any substance at all.

That is alright you will just become a damn statistic and an example.:)

And what do you define as a post with "substance"? :laugh

[Phenomenol]

And what do you define as a post with "substance"? :laugh

Anything not having the name Suzumebachi in it.

Seriously man, all you do is clown people.

[Suzumebachi]

Anything not having the name Suzumebachi in it.

Seriously man, all you do is clown people.

Man?:huh Whaaa?

And you realize most of your posts in this thread were:

"No one reads comics but me!"

[Endless Mike]

... :huh

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5550/desperatebm6.pngThe bottom half of it is disintigrating the earth. The top half is visible, and expanding into open space...

What don't you understand? Maybe you're the one who needs to get his eyes checked.

Nothing is 'expanding into space'.

The explosion is dome - shaped, and expanding. Then it dissipates.

[Renegade]

Nothing is 'expanding into space'.

The explosion is dome - shaped, and expanding. Then it dissipates.
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/1200/blastbs5.pngUnderstand now?

[Phenomenol]

Man?:huh Whaaa?

And you realize most of your posts in this thread were:

"No one reads comics but me!"

Listen If I said that I apologize, I only said that because people are making Mindless and stupid comments.

[Endless Mike]

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4923/blastkq3.pngUnderstand now?

Except no.

The top half never went into space, it just grew larger and then faded out.

[Renegade]

Except no.

The top half never went into space, it just grew larger and then faded out.
Omg, it's like explaining something to a five year old.

I said open space, meaning air, meaning the atmosphere, meaning not disintigrating the earth. Capiche?!

[Endless Mike]

Do you realize that if enough energy to destroy a planet was released into the atmosphere, it would vaporize the whole thing, and a good chunk of the planet as well?

[Renegade]

Do you realize that if enough energy to destroy a planet was released into the atmosphere, it would vaporize the whole thing, and a good chunk of the planet as well?
DBZ Planet destroying attacks need to be launched directly at the planet, moving towards the core, driving it's way through the planet, then causing it to explode.

The desperate attack just exploded on the surface of the earth, with half expanding into the air, and the other half taking a chunk out of it. If it was launched at the planet, it would have destroyed it.

[Envy]

DBZ Planet destroying attacks need to be launched directly at the planet, moving towards the core, driving it's way through the planet, then causing it to explode.

The desperate attack just exploded on the surface of the earth, with half expanding into the air, and the other half taking a chunk out of it. If it was launched at the planet, it would have destroyed it.


That's like saying you drop 10000 hydrogen bombs on the surface, and dropping 10000 hydrogen bombs on the core.

// No fucking shit the planet will explode.

It's not hard to blow up a planet from the core. Seriously. Do enough and the core will do the rest. It's not like trying to destroy the planet from tme surface. That takes shitloads more power.

[Endless Mike]

DBZ Planet destroying attacks need to be launched directly at the planet, moving towards the core, driving it's way through the planet, then causing it to explode.

The desperate attack just exploded on the surface of the earth, with half expanding into the air, and the other half taking a chunk out of it. If it was launched at the planet, it would have destroyed it.

Um, wrong.

Just a quick eyeballing of that attack, I would put it at 150 megatons, max.

A single 150 megaton explosion, no matter where on or inside the earth it was detonated, would not come close to destroying it.

[Renegade]

That's like saying you drop 10000 hydrogen bombs on the surface, and dropping 10000 hydrogen bombs on the core.

// No fucking shit the planet will explode.

It's not hard to blow up a planet from the core. Seriously. Do enough and the core will do the rest. It's not like trying to destroy the planet from tme surface. That takes shitloads more power.
Yes, but an incredible amount of power is still needed to drive the ki blast into the planet.

Um, wrong.

Just a quick eyeballing of that attack, I would put it at 150 megatons, max.

A single 150 megaton explosion, no matter where on or inside the earth it was detonated, would not come close to destroying it.
It never showed a screen of the blast viewed from outer space. You're "eyeballing" isn't sufficient enough to advocate the size or power of the blast.

[Envy]

Yes, but an incredible amount of power is still needed to drive the ki blast into the planet.


It never showed a screen of the blast viewed from outer space. You're "eyeballing" isn't sufficient enough to advocate the size or power of the blast.

Do you want a manga scan? It's not that big. Seriously. Not even bigger than a city, and thus.. Not even an atomic bomb. So. Yeah. That's not going to destroy the planet.

[Endless Mike]

Yes it is, since we can scale it with the desert around it and the area.

Besides, it would have to be about a million times bigger than that to even blow a good - sized chunk out of the planet.

What about this aren't you getting?

The attack, as shown, had nowhere near the power to destroy a planet.

[Renegade]

Do you want a manga scan? It's not that big. Seriously. Not even bigger than a city, and thus.. Not even an atomic bomb. So. Yeah. That's not going to destroy the planet.
If you have a screen of the blast being shown from outer space, i'd be glad to see it.

Yes it is, since we can scale it with the desert around it and the area.

Besides, it would have to be about a million times bigger than that to even blow a good - sized chunk out of the planet.

What about this aren't you getting?

The attack, as shown, had nowhere near the power to destroy a planet.
Seeing the blast from the other z fighter's point of view doesn't help in determining how big it is. Unless there is a screen of it being shown from outer space, seeing it in comparison to the size of earth, it's undeterminable.

[Sharingan No Yondaime]

Um, wrong.

Just a quick eyeballing of that attack, I would put it at 150 megatons, max.

A single 150 megaton explosion, no matter where on or inside the earth it was detonated, would not come close to destroying it.

It was obvious that Vegeta was condensing that attack. Even after condensing it, it's as big as a frickin city!! If he let the entire blast go(it's called Final Explosion), the entire planet and every living being would have died instantly.

Like how Vegeta narrowed his final flash when he aimed it at Cell. That attack clearly and obviously had enough energy to destroy Earth.

[Endless Mike]

Seeing the blast from the other z fighter's point of view doesn't help in determining how big it is. Unless there is a screen of it being shown from outer space, seeing it in comparison to the size of earth, it's undeterminable.

It couldn't have been more than 10 kilometers wide. It simply didn't expand enough to be any larger.

[Endless Mike]

It was obvious that Vegeta was condensing that attack. Even after condensing it, it's as big as a frickin city!! If he let the entire blast go(it's called Final Explosion), the entire planet and every living being would have died instantly.

Like how Vegeta narrowed his final flash when he aimed it at Cell. That attack clearly and obviously had enough energy to destroy Earth.

I thought we went over this already.

If that blast had enough energy to destroy the earth, then where did all of the extra energy go?

Oh, BTW, it's a good thing Vegeta is not up against you - know - who:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdCvA-1x78U

Just wanted to share that video.

[superbatman86]

There is no remove from play, I don't know why you say there is.Yes there is.It was never stated that battle feild removal WASN'T a win.You need to shut up and read the first post before you go shooting your mouth off.And unless Juggs is fighting someone higher up than Cytorrak than you can't kill him and anyone using him in a match either must allow BFR or it's a no win situation.If there's no BFR then Vegeta could just leave and it would be a draw.

[superbatman86]

The attack had planet destroying wheither you like it or not.Freeza could destroy a planet.That's an inarguable fact.Vegeta in the Boo saga was many times stronger than Freeza.That's an inarguable fact.Vegeta used all his energy in his final attack.That's an inarguable fact.And since DBZ and power levels ARE linear you CAN'T argue against that unless your blatanly ignoring facts like some people on this thread.Juggs can be moved.We've seen him being moved by less than planet destroying force before.And unless your arguing that Onslaught could destroy the planet with a punch then Vegeta's blasts would have more force behind it.It doesn't matter if it fits into physics since as we all know comic physics=/=real world physics.This is a thread that has a guy who can't be hurt because of magic.

[Endless Mike]

Onslaught probably could destroy the planet with a punch.

And you can't just ignore physics whenever they don't support your argument.

[Shadow Replication 1480]

If there's no BFR and Vegeta left, then that'd be a loss because he gave up, not a draw.

[Phenomenol]

The attack had planet destroying wheither you like it or not.Freeza could destroy a planet.That's an inarguable fact.Vegeta in the Boo saga was many times stronger than Freeza.That's an inarguable fact.Vegeta used all his energy in his final attack.That's an inarguable fact.And since DBZ and power levels ARE linear you CAN'T argue against that unless your blatanly ignoring facts like some people on this thread.Juggs can be moved.We've seen him being moved by less than planet destroying force before.And unless your arguing that Onslaught could destroy the planet with a punch then Vegeta's blasts would have more force behind it.It doesn't matter if it fits into physics since as we all know comic physics=/=real world physics.This is a thread that has a guy who can't be hurt because of magic.

SuperBatman86 just owned this thread!!!!!!!:nod

[Sharingan No Yondaime]

SuperBat I love you.

[Endless Mike]

So ignoring physics whenever it suits him constitutes 'owning' a thread?

He's just trying to dodge the main and most pressing question: Where did all that energy go?

[Renegade]

He basically stated what I had already stated countless times:

1) Frieza can destroy planets.

2) Vegeta >>>>>>> Frieza.

3) Vegeta can destroy planets.

[Phenomenol]

So ignoring physics whenever it suits him constitutes 'owning' a thread?

He's just trying to dodge the main and most pressing question: Where did all that energy go?

No he owned this thread, He owned the system and the so called physics!

I gave that man REP!!!!

[Endless Mike]

He basically stated what I had already stated countless times:

1) Frieza can destroy planets.

2) Vegeta >>>>>>> Frieza.

3) Vegeta can destroy planets.

Yet his 'final attack' was not planet - destroying.

[Endless Mike]

No he owned this thread, He owned the system and the so called physics!

I gave that man REP!!!!

You do know that your rep turns out null if you have negative rep yourself?

[Renegade]

Yet his 'final attack' was not planet - destroying.
It was concentrated and densened so that it would not go completely out of control. If you don't like that explanation, take it up with AT or something. Because i'm sure he'd vouge that Vegeta SSJ-2 is able to destroy a planet.

[Envy]

Sigh. Anyway. This is manga so it's canon. So don't complain. And really, I think this shows you how big the crater is. It's not bigger than an average metroplitan city.

Oh yes Renegade.. I'm sure you can control an attack when you're dead. </Sarcasm>

http://fenris.files.deltaanime.net/images/CIMG1280.JPG
http://fenris.files.deltaanime.net/images/CIMG1281.JPG

[Endless Mike]

It was concentrated and densened so that it would not go completely out of control. If you don't like that explanation, take it up with AT or something. Because i'm sure he'd vouge that Vegeta SSJ-2 is able to destroy a planet.

Yet the actual events contradict that.

[Kuya]

Juggernaut cannot be moved stupid ass. Juggernaut cannot die stupid ass.

Juggernaut cannot be moved stupid ass. Don't Try again, Please Quit

Did u see onslaught vs. juggs? or war hulk vs. juggs????


k besides that point. Are Hulk and Juggs even quick enough to land a punch on Vegeta? I would think that by the time their fist is in midway of landing, he would have already moved behind them and have a palm full of ki ready to unload on either juggs or hulk.

[Envy]

Did u see onslaught vs. juggs? or war hulk vs. juggs????


k besides that point. Are Hulk and Juggs even quick enough to land a punch on Vegeta? I would think that by the time their fist is in midway of landing, he would have already moved behind them and have a palm full of ki ready to unload on either juggs or hulk.


Onslaught is a cosmic being, hulk was war hulk. Unlimited strength. Both are hacked.

[Kuya]

Onslaught is a cosmic being, hulk was war hulk. Unlimited strength. Both are hacked.

i was referring to who i was quoting. he/she said that Juggs CAN't Be moved. and i was saying that Onslaught AND War Hulk were both able to move Juggs.

[omg laser pew pew!]

I thought we went over this already.

If that blast had enough energy to destroy the earth, then where did all of the extra energy go?

Oh, BTW, it's a good thing Vegeta is not up against you - know - who:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdCvA-1x78U

Just wanted to share that video.

That video is rubbish

ss4 Gogeta wouldn't survive two punches from Popeye let alone Vegeta

[Giovanni Rild]

Did u see onslaught vs. juggs? or war hulk vs. juggs????


k besides that point. Are Hulk and Juggs even quick enough to land a punch on Vegeta? I would think that by the time their fist is in midway of landing, he would have already moved behind them and have a palm full of ki ready to unload on either juggs or hulk.

I've already been corrected on that. Phenomenol is just the pure essence of jackass.
To cut this really short. Is Vegeta powerful enough to blast Juggernaut clean off the planet

[EvilMoogle]

To cut this really short. Is Vegeta powerful enough to blast Juggernaut clean off the planet

I would think he is. Jugg's has been knocked around by the Thing before, you can deflect his momentum. It would probably take a few attacks before Vegeta puzzles out how to manage it though.

So, if you consider knocking Juggs off the planet a "win" for Vegeta, he could win in this manner.

But would he choose to? It seems rather out of character for him to try to win by a technicality. I think it's more likely he'd continue to try to pound Juggs with various strengths of KI blasts before finally running down on energy. He'd probably also blow himself up in a last-ditch attempt to get a double-KO.

[Giovanni Rild]

I would think he is. Jugg's has been knocked around by the Thing before, you can deflect his momentum. It would probably take a few attacks before Vegeta puzzles out how to manage it though.

So, if you consider knocking Juggs off the planet a "win" for Vegeta, he could win in this manner.

But would he choose to? It seems rather out of character for him to try to win by a technicality. I think it's more likely he'd continue to try to pound Juggs with various strengths of KI blasts before finally running down on energy. He'd probably also blow himself up in a last-ditch attempt to get a double-KO.

Plus someone already said Juggernaut could walk back

[Sasori]

Oh, BTW, it's a good thing Vegeta is not up against you - know - who:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdCvA-1x78U

Just wanted to share that video.

Best. Video. Ever.

lol and the Popeye/Mario one after it wos fucking hilarious.

[superbatman86]

Onslaught probably could destroy the planet with a punch.

And you can't just ignore physics whenever they don't support your argument.I can when the manga does.And how ISN'T his attack using every ounce of strength planet destroying?

[Envy]

I can when the manga does.And how ISN'T his attack using every ounce of strength planet destroying?

Where in the manga does it state that is defies the laws of physics, dumbass.

[superbatman86]

Where in the manga does it state that is defies the laws of physics, dumbass.The fact that the planet is still there or that a bunny man could live on the moon or that Goku's staff can extend to any length jack-ass.

[kapsi]

Comics also defy laws of physics but what's the point

[Envy]

The fact that the planet is still there or that a bunny man could live on the moon or that Goku's staff can extend to any length jack-ass.


Like you said, the manga stated it. So unless you can show me a fucking scan of that, stfu.

[Renegade]

Sigh. Anyway. This is manga so it's canon. So don't complain. And really, I think this shows you how big the crater is. It's not bigger than an average metroplitan city.

Oh yes Renegade.. I'm sure you can control an attack when you're dead. </Sarcasm>

http://fenris.files.deltaanime.net/images/CIMG1280.JPG
http://fenris.files.deltaanime.net/images/CIMG1281.JPG
I will answer with the same thing I said before, because apparently you didn't read it:

If you have a screen of the blast being shown from outer space, i'd be glad to see it.

[Phenomenol]

Like you said, the manga stated it. So unless you can show me a fucking scan of that, stfu.

SuperBatman86 is right. Eclair you are just nitpicking and need to relax, Comics and Manga Defy real world physics.

[Comic Book Guy]

No one's floating from Earth, however.

[konflikti]

Here's couple more manga scans of the infamous crater:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/konflikti/Muuta/vegetacrater.gif

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/konflikti/Muuta/vegatacrater3.gif

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/konflikti/Muuta/vegatacrater2.gif

[Endless Mike]

I can when the manga does.And how ISN'T his attack using every ounce of strength planet destroying?

I don't know, maybe because..... it didn't destroy the planet?:omg

[Endless Mike]

The fact that the planet is still there or that a bunny man could live on the moon or that Goku's staff can extend to any length jack-ass.

And this somehow means conservation of energy doesn't apply?

[Renegade]

Here's couple more manga scans of the infamous crater:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/konflikti/Muuta/vegetacrater.gif

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/konflikti/Muuta/vegatacrater3.gif

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/konflikti/Muuta/vegatacrater2.gif
Very well, I will concede. That is a pretty small crater. :trytocry

[Endless Mike]

Here's couple more manga scans of the infamous crater:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/konflikti/Muuta/vegetacrater.gif

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/konflikti/Muuta/vegatacrater3.gif

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/konflikti/Muuta/vegatacrater2.gif

Meteor crater in Arizona is bigger than that. Sure didn't have the power to destroy the planet.

Everyone keeps ignoring the fact that if planet - destroying energies were released anywhere near the earth, it would smash it into rubble.

[Renegade]

The fact that the planet is still there or that a bunny man could live on the moon or that Goku's staff can extend to any length jack-ass.
And this somehow means conservation of energy doesn't apply?
The things he listed are to show that real world physics do not apply in certain cases. If we know this, who's to say it applies in terms of Vegeta's Final Attack.

[Endless Mike]

The things he listed are to show that real world physics do not apply in certain cases. If we know this, who's to say it applies in terms of Vegeta's Final Attack.

Because there's no evidence it doesn't?

You can't just ignore physics because a fictional world doesn't conform completely to physics, unless it logically follows that one principle repealed would invalidate another.

Besides, even if we accept that conservation of energy doesn't apply, it won't help your case.

If conservation of energy didn't apply, then energy could just appear and disappear at random. That could easily mean that DBZ characters don't have the power to destroy planets, the reason the planets were destroyed was because extra energy just appeared, and didn't come from the characters themselves.

[kapsi]

You see, pink blasts are planet destroying while blue ones are just strong. It's because pink ones accelerate tachyons in the mini black holes at Planck's mass level.

[Envy]

Very well, I will concede. That is a pretty small crater. :trytocry


Manga is more canon than the anime, so it doesn't matter. I'll show what the manga's got. Not what the anime has.

[Giovanni Rild]

Real Name: Cain Marko
Occupation: professional criminal
Identity: secret
Legal Status: American citizen with no criminal record as yet
Other Aliases: none
Place of Birth: Berkeley, Calif.
Marital Status: single
Known Relatives: Kurt Marko (father, a deceased), Marjorie Marko (mother, deceased), Sharon Xavier (stepmother, deceased), Charles F. Xavier (stepbrother)
Group Affiliation: frequent associate of Black Tom Cassidy
Base of Operations: Mobile
First Appearance: X-Men #12

History: Cain Marko is the son of Dr. Kurt Marko, an atomic researcher. Cain's parents separated and Cain was eventually sent to a boarding school. Kurt Marko's colleague, Dr. Brian Xavier, another atomic researcher, died in an accident, and Kurt Marko eventually married Xavier's widow Sharon for her great wealth. On marrying Sharon, Kurt Marko moved into her large Westchester County mansion, where he lived with her and her young son Charles. Cain, who had become a cruel and spiteful boy, came to live at the mansion as well.

Cain immediately began bullying his new stepbrother Charles. But Cain was often secretly beaten by his abusive father. Charles' vast telepathic powers were beginning to develop, and on one occasion he found himself experiencing the anguished thoughts and emotions of Cain after Cain had been beaten by his father. The inexperienced young Charles could not control or end his contact with Cain's mind at this time. Somehow Cain sensed that Charles was reading his mind and had discovered his secret shame. Cain believed that Charles had invaded his thoughts deliberately, and from then on Cain regarded Charles as his enemy. Cain was abusive to his stepbrother at every opportunity.

Getting into a disagreement with his father over money, Cain accidentally upset some explosive chemicals and caused a fire to engulf his father's home laboratory. Though Kurt Marko managed to rescue both Cain and Charles from the fire, he himself died of smoke inhalation. Sharon Xavier Marko had died sometime before, tormented by the lovelessness of her marriage to Marko. Cain Marko continued to live in the Xavier mansion, growing increasingly resentful of his stepbrother's scholastic and athletic achievements as wall as of his telepathic powers, which Xavier mastered as he grew older.

What happened to Marko after he left home is unclear. However, it is known that he became a mercenary and was eventually imprisoned in a Third World jail when the revolutionary forces he was fighting for were defeated. In the jail he became friends with a fellow mercenary, Black Tom Cassidy, who used his mutant powers to help them escape.

Later, Marko and Xavier found themselves serving together in the same U.S. military unit in Asia. Marko deserted under fire and Xavier went after him to bring him back. Xavier followed Marko into a cave that housed the lost secret temple of Cyttorak, a powerful mystical entity. Marko impulsively grabbed a glowing ruby from the lap of an idol and read the inscription (which mystically appeared to his mind to be in English): "Whosoever touches this gem shall possess the power of the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak. Henceforth, you who read these words shall become forevermore a human juggernaut." As Xavier watched, the gem's mystical power transformed Marko into a larger, superhuman being. Just then enemy high explosive bombardment caused a cave-in, and Marko was buried under several thousand tons of rock. Xavier survived and returned to his unit.

Marko, now the Juggernaut, eventually dug himself free with his newfound power and made his way to America to use his power to kill Xavier. He was defeated by Xavier and his original team of X-Men. Over the years the Juggernaut has clashed with Xavier and both the original and new teams of X-Men repeatedly. He has also formed a successful criminal partnership with his old friend Black Tom Cassidy.

More recently the sentient psionic being known as Onslaught, actually an amalgamation of the psyches of Xavier and Magneto, would-be world conqueror and mutant Master of Magnetism, ripped the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak from Juggernaut's body and imprisoned him within. Inside the jewel, Cain learned he was an avatar for Cyttorak. As such, the otherworldly entity sought to assume control of Juggernaut's form. But Cain, through sheer force of will, destroyed the evil god and returned to Earth, stronger than ever, but unable to fully control his amplified abilities.

Cyttorak was merely one of a pantheon of eight gods, all with earthbound avatars. These Exemplars enlisted the Juggernaut's aid in constructing a machine that would enslave the human race. As the Exemplars tended to in their final preparations, Cain withdrew deep into himself, where he clashed with Cytorrak. Charles entered his stepbrother's mind to aid him in the battle, but the Exemplar known as Bedlam sensed his presence and expelled him. Still, Charles' short stay in Juggernaut's head had helped Cain regain control of his psyche. After defeating Cyttorak, Juggernaut destroyed the Exemplars' God Machine. He then turned his attention to the avatars themselves, defeating each in turn.

Juggernaut again was cast as a hero when the sentient spaceship Prosh escaped the confines of a Celestial prison, returned to Earth and dispatched a group of disparate beings on a journey through time to uncover the keys to preserving human evolution. Besides Cain, Prosh's task force included Phoenix and Iceman, members of the X-Men; and Mystique and Toad, mutant terrorists. Their mission: Save the human race from a threat that might not manifest itself for millions of years. Juggernaut was shown that for all his physical strength, he long has lacked strength of character. Despite all his yearning for power, he has squandered his supernaturally enhanced abilities. When Prosh reassembled the members of his team in the present, they fought and defeated the enigmatic alien entity known as the Stranger, who sought to control the natural evolution of humans and mutants. If not acquiring a newfound respect for life and human dignity, at least Juggernaut gained a better sense of understanding for the mutant plight.

Height: 6 ft. 10 in.
Weight: 900 lbs.
Eyes: Blue
Here: red brown

Strength Level: The Juggernaut possesses Class 100 strength, enabling him to lift (press) over 100 tons. The Juggernaut is said to be unstoppable, and the upper limit to his strength is not known.

Known Superhuman Powers: The Juggernaut possesses untold power, mystical in nature, which enhances his strength to an as yet unknown degree and makes him a seemingly irresistible, unstoppable being. Once he begins to walk in a certain direction, no obstacle or force on Earth has been observed to be able to stop him. Apparently, only he can stop himself. Some obstacles (many tons of rock, for example) or forces (such as plasma-discharge cannons) may slow his pace considerably, but nothing has yet stopped him permanently from advancing.

Besides giving him vast superhuman strength, the mystical energy of Cyttorak gives the Juggernaut an extraordinary degree of resistance to all forms of injury. The Juggernaut can shield himself even further from injury by mentally surrounding himself with a force field. Enveloped by his force field, the Juggernaut has survived the fiery explosion of a truck transporting a huge quantity of oil without any injury whatsoever.
The Juggernaut can survive indefinitely without food, water, or oxygen. He is sustained by his mystical energies alone.

In the past the Juggernaut has temporarily possessed telepathic abilities and certain mystical powers, all of which he has since lost.

Limitations: The Juggernaut does have certain vulnerabilities. He can be affected by mystical forces of sufficient strength. Without his helmet and/or skullcap, both constructed of an unknown mystical metal, he is vulnerable to psionic attacks against his mind. Nimrod, a robot from the future of an alternate Earth, successfully attacked the Juggernaut's mind and nervous system with advanced weaponry producing tight-beam high-frequency sound waves and a synapse dislocate that jammed his neural impulses. However, had the Juggernaut used his force field, perhaps he might have proved invulnerable even to these futuristic weapons.

The Juggernaut once attempted to transform Black Tom Cassidy into a being like himself with the ruby of Cyttorek. The result was that both Marko and Cassidy were Juggernauts, but each had considerably less power than Marko had possessed when he was the sole Juggernaut. (Marko and Cassidy each claimed to have half Marko's previous power, but this is inaccurate, considering that the Juggernaut's previous power level was virtually immeasurable.) Marko finally regained his full power, and hurled the ruby into orbit so that no one else could ever use it.

Paraphernalia: The Juggernaut wears a helmet fashioned from an unknown mystical metal found in the dimension of Cyttorak. Wearing this helmet, the Juggernaut is able to resist all forms of psionic attack on his mind successfully. Recently, the Juggernaut constructed a skullcap from scraps of the metal he used to construct the helmet. He wears the skullcap under, his helmet. Hence, if his helmet is somehow removed in battle, the skullcap will provide him continued protection from psionic attacks on his mind.

[superbatman86]

I don't know, maybe because..... it didn't destroy the planet?:omgIt doesn't mean that it couldn't.You need to stop arguing this because it's a FACT that he could destroy a planet.Get over it.Nothing you say can dispute this.Your argument was beaten before you even posted it.Unless your saying your right and Akira is wrong then he can destroy a planet.

[superbatman86]

And this somehow means conservation of energy doesn't apply?Yes.Where does the rest of Goku's staff come from or go?It has to come from somewhere by the law of conversion of energy and matter.Unless it breaks that rule.

[Endless Mike]

It doesn't mean that it couldn't.You need to stop arguing this because it's a FACT that he could destroy a planet.Get over it.Nothing you say can dispute this.Your argument was beaten before you even posted it.Unless your saying your right and Akira is wrong then he can destroy a planet.

Then why didn't the attack destroy the planet?

[Endless Mike]

Yes.Where does the rest of Goku's staff come from or go?It has to come from somewhere by the law of conversion of energy and matter.Unless it breaks that rule.

One example does not invalidate a physical principle.

If conservation of matter and energy didn't apply, life as we know it could not exist.

[superbatman86]

Yup Imovable
http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=transmutesicetowater2my.jpg

[superbatman86]

One example does not invalidate a physical principle.

If conservation of matter and energy didn't apply, life as we know it could not exist.Aparantly not in the DB world.The Androids had didn't get tired ever.Doesn't matter how long or how many energy attacks they used in a fight they could always be at peak energy.Just like Kid Buu.

[superbatman86]

Then why didn't the attack destroy the planet?Because he didn't want it to.Doesn't matter what you say he had the power to do it so him controling the blast is the only explanation.

[Endless Mike]

Yup Imovable
http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=transmutesicetowater2my.jpg

The art looked new, was that classic Juggernaut or the depowered version?

[Envy]

Because he didn't want it to.Doesn't matter what you say he had the power to do it so him controling the blast is the only explanation.

Tell me when you're dead how do you control a blast.

[Endless Mike]

Aparantly not in the DB world.The Androids had didn't get tired ever.Doesn't matter how long or how many energy attacks they used in a fight they could always be at peak energy.Just like Kid Buu.

That doesn't invalidate an entire physical principle which life and the universe would depend upon to exist.

If scientists in real life discovered a perpetual motion machine, they wouldn't say "Well, I guess all the laws of physics that are essential to the universe are out the window," they would study it and try to figure out how it worked.

Most likely it was drawing energy from another dimension or something.

[Endless Mike]

Because he didn't want it to.Doesn't matter what you say he had the power to do it so him controling the blast is the only explanation.

Except that's not an explanation at all.

You can't 'control' a planet - destroying blast so it only creates a small crater and there is no other damage. The energy has to go somewhere.

[superbatman86]

The art looked new, was that classic Juggernaut or the depowered version?That's classic.You can tell because Iceman is still only covered in ice not ice himself.This is is depowered
http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icemanblastsjuggy8ks.jpg

[superbatman86]

Except that's not an explanation at all.

You can't 'control' a planet - destroying blast so it only creates a small crater and there is no other damage. The energy has to go somewhere.Just like the extensions of Goku's staff have to go and come from some where?

[superbatman86]

Tell me when you're dead how do you control a blast.He wasn't dead until after the attack ended.

[superbatman86]

That doesn't invalidate an entire physical principle which life and the universe would depend upon to exist.

If scientists in real life discovered a perpetual motion machine, they wouldn't say "Well, I guess all the laws of physics that are essential to the universe are out the window," they would study it and try to figure out how it worked.

Most likely it was drawing energy from another dimension or something.It does actually prove that.Where does it come from?He created and destroyed matter thus breaking the law.We don't know how it does it just that it does.And since it hasn't happened in real life the point means nothing.

[Endless Mike]

That's classic.You can tell because Iceman is still only covered in ice not ice himself.This is is depowered
http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icemanblastsjuggy8ks.jpg

What issue was it?

The first scan.

[Endless Mike]

Just like the extensions of Goku's staff have to go and come from some where?

Which is magic, not natural. Magic allows more liberal mechanisms, like energy - matter conversion and dimensional stuff.

[Endless Mike]

It does actually prove that.Where does it come from?He created and destroyed matter thus breaking the law.We don't know how it does it just that it does.And since it hasn't happened in real life the point means nothing.

Um, no, because conservation of matter and energy would still apply everywhere else in the universe, proof of that is that life and objects as we know them are still able to exist.

[superbatman86]

Um, no, because conservation of matter and energy would still apply everywhere else in the universe, proof of that is that life and objects as we know them are still able to exist.Apparantly it doesn't in DB world.Goku's staff goes directly against it.

[Endless Mike]

Apparantly it doesn't in DB world.Goku's staff goes directly against it.

I already addressed that.

If it didn't apply, life as we know it would not be able to exist.

So it must apply.

[iaido]

Not needing to sleep, eat, or breathe isn't really going to help in this. Unless Vegeta tries to choke him to death or something.


What's this being compared to though? Has he ever faced an opponent as strong as Vegeta before? An opponent with the capability and power to destroy an entire planet with ease?


Still doesn't prove that his strength is higher than Vegeta's. Maybe Vegeta could destroy him before he could even get a chance to get super angry.


Not if he ends it quickly.


None of those things really provide support to their actual strength. Not being able to get tired, and getting stronger the more they get angry doesn't really help them too much in the situation when they are up against an opponent that has the strength and power to destroy an entire planet with ease.
Just read the comics. Vegeta can't harm Hulk or Juggs.

[kapsi]

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7049/9000gn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Endless Mike]

That's going to be the exact look on Vegeta's face when Juggernaut casually wades through his final flash.

[Havoc]

That's going to be the exact look on Vegeta's face when Juggernaut casually wades through his final flash.

lol .

[RealaMoreno]

I read every page of this thread and I voted for Hulka nd Juggs.

[blacklusterseph004]

I already addressed that.

If it didn't apply, life as we know it would not be able to exist.

So it must apply.Not really. Newtons Laws were shown to not apply to subatomic particles. This simply means that Newtons Laws turned out to only be applicable to a special case, and were not true for all cases.

If I am not mistaken, Vegeta knows distructo disc. As far as I know, there has never been anything that can block that attack. I may be mistaken though.

[Endless Mike]

Newtonian physics are just a model, they don't apply at relativistic velocities, for example. Einstienian physics are a much better model.

And kienzan would do jack shit to Juggernaut or War Hulk.

[blacklusterseph004]

And kienzan would do jack shit to Juggernaut or War Hulk.Kienzan = distructo disc right? I only mention it because it appeared to be the only attack in DBZ that people didn't even try defending against.

[Endless Mike]

Yes. How it would get past Juggernaut's forcefield and msytical durability or War Hulk's Celestial enhancements is beyond me.

[Dr.Douchebag]

endless mike could u get some scans for war hulk? pls? :grin
i just wanna see what he is like and u can show all them vegeta lovers what he's capable of

[Endless Mike]

I'll see what I can do.

[Zer0_UchiHa]

Wow i read the entire thing, let me just say, i am more in love with the hulk and juggernaut than ever before.

Ok now with regards to the debate of whether or not vegeta could beat hulk, ( i will say one at a time, 2 on 1 is a bit hard, still possible maybe? more on that later) let look at some important facts.

Firstly, hulk has incredible regenerating abilities, thats been established, but what has been established in DBZ is that ki attacks like kamehameha and glaick gun can indeed disintegrate beings. Ki attacks has destroyed every particle of a bieng, so only, and only in that sense do i think that vegeta can beat the hulk. Physically he wouldnt really harm the hulk with just punching him, i personally believe that the hulk could never land a blow on vegeta, but at the same time, thuosands of blows by vegeta on the hulk would not harm him to any great extent. That is the hulk, he is virtually impervious to physical attacks. A ki attack however would be different, i feel that it would disintegrate hulk completely, no matter how much he can regenerate, if their is no molecule of him there, he cannot generate. Cell is the same, he reformed from just one molecule, buu can even reform from dust, hulk has been shown to be eaten by giant bugs and it takes him 11 mintues to completely reform. But he has to reform from something, with a ki attack he would be vaporised. That is the only way i can see vegeta beating hulk, no other way would be possible to defeat him. Granted i have seen the hulk is incredibly resistant to "beams" but he has been ripped down to his skeleton before from a beam attack. That said beam attack i feel is not as strong as the beam attacks in the dbz universe. The hulk managed to walk through the beam attack as his skin and muscle was being ripped off. Now if the beam attack was powerful enough i think it would have vaporised hulk before he could walk towards it. Vegeta in that sense has a lot more power in his ki beam attacks, so logically he could probably vaporise the hulk.

In regards to juggernaut, if indeed his forcefield prevents any beam attack, or even if beam attaks themselves do nothing against him, than vegeta has no way in winning this fight, unless he manages to throw him into space. Even then juggernaut wouldnt die, but he could be defeated, in the sense that he might not be able to stop his momentum when thrown into space, or even if he can, vegeta could just throw him in space again if he shuold manage to return.

I will just say one thing, different "universes" or impossible to compare characters. DIfferent stories work differently, galactus devours planets, could he devour juggernaut? would juggernaut live in his stomach forever? Answers like this never seem to make themselves knows becuase even though that "verse" is marvel, the stories are different. DBZ is not even close to marvel "universe" in any way shape or form, so we will never know how would win such fights. It seems juggernaut is stronger than hulk, but then sometimes hulk seems stronger. Throw in variables like galctus and everything goes out the window. In short i had a great time reading this thread, look forward to see how future debates turn out.

[Zer0_UchiHa]

Wow i read the entire thing, let me just say, i am more in love with the hulk and juggernaut than ever before.

Ok now with regards to the debate of whether or not vegeta could beat hulk, ( i will say one at a time, 2 on 1 is a bit hard, still possible maybe? more on that later) let look at some important facts.

Firstly, hulk has incredible regenerating abilities, thats been established, but what has been established in DBZ is that ki attacks like kamehameha and glaick gun can indeed disintegrate beings. Ki attacks has destroyed every particle of a bieng, so only, and only in that sense do i think that vegeta can beat the hulk. Physically he wouldnt really harm the hulk with just punching him, i personally believe that the hulk could never land a blow on vegeta, but at the same time, thuosands of blows by vegeta on the hulk would not harm him to any great extent. That is the hulk, he is virtually impervious to physical attacks. A ki attack however would be different, i feel that it would disintegrate hulk completely, no matter how much he can regenerate, if their is no molecule of him there, he cannot generate. Cell is the same, he reformed from just one molecule, buu can even reform from dust, hulk has been shown to be eaten by giant bugs and it takes him 11 mintues to completely reform. But he has to reform from something, with a ki attack he would be vaporised. That is the only way i can see vegeta beating hulk, no other way would be possible to defeat him. Granted i have seen the hulk is incredibly resistant to "beams" but he has been ripped down to his skeleton before from a beam attack. That said beam attack i feel is not as strong as the beam attacks in the dbz universe. The hulk managed to walk through the beam attack as his skin and muscle was being ripped off. Now if the beam attack was powerful enough i think it would have vaporised hulk before he could walk towards it. Vegeta in that sense has a lot more power in his ki beam attacks, so logically he could probably vaporise the hulk.

In regards to juggernaut, if indeed his forcefield prevents any beam attack, or even if beam attaks themselves do nothing against him, than vegeta has no way in winning this fight, unless he manages to throw him into space. Even then juggernaut wouldnt die, but he could be defeated, in the sense that he might not be able to stop his momentum when thrown into space, or even if he can, vegeta could just throw him in space again if he shuold manage to return.

I will just say one thing, different "universes" or impossible to compare characters. DIfferent stories work differently, galactus devours planets, could he devour juggernaut? would juggernaut live in his stomach forever? Answers like this never seem to make themselves knows becuase even though that "verse" is marvel, the stories are different. DBZ is not even close to marvel "universe" in any way shape or form, so we will never know how would win such fights. It seems juggernaut is stronger than hulk, but then sometimes hulk seems stronger. Throw in variables like galctus and everything goes out the window. In short i had a great time reading this thread, look forward to see how future debates turn out.

[Endless Mike]

Wow i read the entire thing, let me just say, i am more in love with the hulk and juggernaut than ever before.

Ok now with regards to the debate of whether or not vegeta could beat hulk, ( i will say one at a time, 2 on 1 is a bit hard, still possible maybe? more on that later) let look at some important facts.

The debate is 2 on 1.

Firstly, hulk has incredible regenerating abilities, thats been established, but what has been established in DBZ is that ki attacks like kamehameha and glaick gun can indeed disintegrate beings. Ki attacks has destroyed every particle of a bieng, so only, and only in that sense do i think that vegeta can beat the hulk. Physically he wouldnt really harm the hulk with just punching him,

i personally believe that the hulk could never land a blow on vegeta,

It doesn't matter what you 'personally' believe, the fact is that the Hulk is not nearly as slow as most people think he is, and he tags fast beings all the time. DBZ characters in every fight have points where they stay in the same place for at least several seconds.

Check out his speed here:

http://img78.exs.cx/img78/7066/icbm23cg.jpg
http://img144.exs.cx/img144/2600/quicksilver9xj.jpg
http://img27.exs.cx/img27/3310/fast2qs.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/1743/avengersih316e2tg.jpg
http://img156.exs.cx/img156/7893/artillery5jv.jpg


Not to mention Hulk has his thunderclap, which is omnidirectional and would, at the very least, stun Vegeta for long enough so that he could manhandle him.

but at the same time, thuosands of blows by vegeta on the hulk would not harm him to any great extent. That is the hulk, he is virtually impervious to physical attacks. A ki attack however would be different, i feel that it would disintegrate hulk completely, no matter how much he can regenerate, if their is no molecule of him there, he cannot generate. Cell is the same, he reformed from just one molecule, buu can even reform from dust, hulk has been shown to be eaten by giant bugs and it takes him 11 mintues to completely reform. But he has to reform from something, with a ki attack he would be vaporised. That is the only way i can see vegeta beating hulk, no other way would be possible to defeat him. Granted i have seen the hulk is incredibly resistant to "beams" but he has been ripped down to his skeleton before from a beam attack.

It wasn't a beam, it was telekinesis. Very strong telekinesis.

http://img235.echo.cx/img235/1217/vector20pk.jpg

Note the quote "I have whipped away worlds!"

Besides, Hulk has taken tougher attacks unharmed, like the High Evolutionary's beam that was supposed to reduce him to component electrical charges.

That said beam attack i feel is not as strong as the beam attacks in the dbz universe.

And your evidence for this is.....?

The hulk managed to walk through the beam attack as his skin and muscle was being ripped off. Now if the beam attack was powerful enough i think it would have vaporised hulk before he could walk towards it. Vegeta in that sense has a lot more power in his ki beam attacks, so logically he could probably vaporise the hulk.

Except Hulk was vaporized in one future timeline and still regenerated, from just his spirit.

It's implied that the Hulk really can't be put down for good by anything short of a high - end reality warper.

http://img84.exs.cx/img84/4021/resurrect3xx.jpg


In regards to juggernaut, if indeed his forcefield prevents any beam attack, or even if beam attaks themselves do nothing against him, than vegeta has no way in winning this fight, unless he manages to throw him into space. Even then juggernaut wouldnt die, but he could be defeated, in the sense that he might not be able to stop his momentum when thrown into space, or even if he can, vegeta could just throw him in space again if he shuold manage to return.

Except he'll be ready for that and smack him down.

I will just say one thing, different "universes" or impossible to compare characters. DIfferent stories work differently, galactus devours planets, could he devour juggernaut?

If he's not hungry, Galactus is above Cytorrak. So yes, he could harm Juggernaut.


would juggernaut live in his stomach forever?


Galactus doesn't physically eat planets, he consumes their elemental energy.

Answers like this never seem to make themselves knows becuase even though that "verse" is marvel, the stories are different. DBZ is not even close to marvel "universe" in any way shape or form, so we will never know how would win such fights. It seems juggernaut is stronger than hulk, but then sometimes hulk seems stronger. Throw in variables like galctus and everything goes out the window. In short i had a great time reading this thread, look forward to see how future debates turn out.

Keep in mind this isn't ordinary Hulk, this is War Hulk, who is way stronger than the normal Hulk.

[blacklusterseph004]

Taking into account the above comments, surely this is a stalemate. Juggernaut and hulk can't be harmed, Vegeta is not slow enough to be caught.

[Hangatýr]

Vegeta can die of old age.

[Endless Mike]

Taking into account the above comments, surely this is a stalemate. Juggernaut and hulk can't be harmed, Vegeta is not slow enough to be caught.

Two words: Thunder Clap.

[Hangatýr]

I'll up you one: Double Thunder Clap.

[The Sentry]

vegeta and goku are 2 fast 4 the hulk. The hulk couldnt even land a punch on spiderman. And if spidermans punches could subdue the hulk, Goku and Vegetas could hurl him

[SoulTaker540]

vegeta and goku are 2 fast 4 the hulk. The hulk couldnt even land a punch on spiderman. And if spidermans punches could subdue the hulk, Goku and Vegetas could hurl him

You're failing to see that this is a different more powerful Hulk,War Hulk.He is probably the strongest incarnation of Hulk outside of Maestro.

[Endless Mike]

vegeta and goku are 2 fast 4 the hulk. The hulk couldnt even land a punch on spiderman. And if spidermans punches could subdue the hulk, Goku and Vegetas could hurl him

Since when did Spider-man's punches 'subdue' the Hulk?

Besides, Spider-man could dodge that well because he has precog, and the Hulk still tags him sometimes.

[kapsi]

Two words: Thunder Clap.
Vegeta will shrug it off with a kiai

[Endless Mike]

Vegeta will shrug it off with a kiai

And your proof is?

You have no idea how powerful the Hulk's thunderclaps are. DBZ characters have been knocked back by much weaker attacks.

[Endless Mike]

Here, check this out:

http://img40.exs.cx/img40/8382/shockwavethunderclap012fy.jpg

This one was nearly as powerful as a nuke.

http://img132.exs.cx/img132/9245/thunderclap64le.jpg

Knocks Thing and Torch for miles, and shakes the ground for miles.

http://img233.echo.cx/img233/7941/shockwavethunderclap022ve.jpg

Louder than a sonic boom.

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/5940/shockwavethunderclap092cu.jpg

Like a sonic boom while he was in a weakened state.

While having his strength drained by Xemnu, the Hulk's thunderclap is far more powerful than any hurricane in history. A normal hurricane has way more energy than a nuke.

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/7126/shockwavethunderclap031ux.jpg

Defeats powerful enemies.

http://img222.exs.cx/img222/6991/shockwavethunderclap135sd.jpg

Knocks back the Grey Hulk (the one that destroyed the planetoid)

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/3624/shockwavethunderclap078zz.jpg
http://img226.echo.cx/img226/5110/shockwavethunderclap087qo.jpg

More stuff.

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/6572/shockwavethunderclap11a8wh.jpg

Avengers < Thunderclap

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/6679/shockwavethunderclap10a2iy.jpg
http://img226.echo.cx/img226/6679/shockwavethunderclap10a2iy.jpg

Near - hurricane force. A hurricane is way more powerful than the strongest nuke.

And let's not even bring up the Dark Cosmos incident....

[Sasori]

And let's not even bring up the Dark Cosmos incident....

Let's :wtf

I love being educated by u guys xD

[kapsi]

Wow, hulk can destroy a door and throw a guy some distance away. Frizer kicked away Vegeta's blast which would destroy Namek.

[Endless Mike]

Wow, hulk can destroy a door and throw a guy some distance away. Frizer kicked away Vegeta's blast which would destroy Namek.

Please, please don't make me bring up the Dark Cosmos incident....

[Dr.Douchebag]

Let's :wtf

I love being educated by u guys xD


me too :wtf......:nod

btw thats an awesome sig and ava satestu

[humpa]

No way seriously, no way can vegeta beat Hulk and Juggaurnaut. Thats just crazy. Hulk is on the level of superman and goku. Hulk is as invincible as superman and goku and to add juggaurnaut? Juggaurnaut isnt called the unstoppable juggaurnaut for nothing. His power is basically allows him to be Unstoppable because he has some invinicible shield around him. Vegeta's basic blasts will do as what cyclop's beams do to juggaurnat and thats tickle him. Heill have to use most of his energy to at least knock juggaurnaut out for a couple of minutes but then juggaurnaut will get right back up at full strength. The hulk is like juggaurnaut however much more powerful (He's so strong iron man decided to send him off to another universe)



Vegeta is dead meat.

[Comic Book Guy]

Hulk is as invincible as superman and goku

Not really. Hulk isn't as invulnerable as either of them. Multiple times, have he been impaled and had been burnt rather badly.

It's really his healing factor that you're talking about.

[Dr.Douchebag]

Hulk is as invincible as superman and goku

Not really. Hulk isn't as invulnerable as either of them. Multiple times, have he been impaled and had been burnt rather badly.

It's really his healing factor that you're talking about.

is war hulk as invincible as superman then?

[Giovanni Rild]

This crap is still going on? Fanboys are like a rash that won't go away on this forum. Read the the comics, fanboys and you will ses that Kakarot and Vegete aren't even in Juggernaut and War hulk's league

Height: 7 ft. as green Hulk, 5 ft. 9 in. as Banner, 6 ft. 6 in. as gray Hulk
Weight: 1,040 lbs. as green Hulk, 128 lbs. as Banner, 900 lbs. as gray Hulk
Eyes: Green as green Hulk, Brown as Banner, gray as gray Hulk
Hair: Green as green Hulk, Brown as Banner, black as gray Hulk
Skin: Green as green Hulk, gray as gray Hulk

Strength Level: The Hulk possesses superhuman strength of the Class 100 level, enabling him to lift (press) in excess of 100 tons. The Hulk only attains this strength level when he is enraged. In a totally, calm state his functional strength is significantly less, perhaps in the 70 ton range. In human form Bruce Banner possesses the normal human strength of a man of his age, height, and build who engages in no regular exercise.

Known superhuman powers: The Hulk possesses the capacity for nearly limitless physical strength. The gamma radiation that mutated the Hulk's body fortified his cellular structure and added, from some as yet unknown source, over 800 pounds of bone marrow and tissue to his body.

Previously, this mutation was not a stable one. The Hulk would periodically revert o the human form of Bruce Banner, losing the extra mass and energy to the same as yet unknown source from which he derived it. The process by which Banner transformed into the Hulk had a chemical catalyst, adrenalinc. As in normal humans, Banner's adrenal medulla secrets large amounts of adrenaline in times of fear, range, or stress, which hormonally stimulates the heartbeat rate, raises blood-sugar levels, and inhibits sensations of fatigue. Whereas this secretion simply heightens normal physical abilities in normal human beings, in Banner's case it triggered the complex chemical/ extra-physical process that transformed him into the Hulk. The total transformation took from 25 seconds to as long as 5 minutes, depending on the initial adrenaline surge which is determined by the original, external stimulus. Soon after the transformation, the amount of adrenaline in the Hulk would return to more normal, reduced levels. However, since Dr. Leonard Samson separated the Hulk and Banner into two discrete beings, Banner remains in human form and the Hulk remains in his superhuman mutated one.

In times of stress the Hulk's adrenaline level escalates, causing a corresponding escalation in strength. This is not accompanied by an additional gain in mass, but does appear to promote increased levels of energy efficiency. To date the Hulk has never apparently been provoked into demonstrating a maximum output of strength; hence, its upper limit remains a mystery.

In addition to great strength, the Hulk's body possesses a high degree of resistance to injury, pain, and disease. The Hulk's skin is capable of withstanding great heat without blistering (up to 3,000° Fahrenheit), great cold without freezing (down to -190° F), and great impacts (he can survive direct hits by field artillery cannon shells). It is possible to injure him: he could not, for example, survive a near-hit with a nuclear warhead. The Hulk's highly efficient physiology renders him immune to all terrestrial disease.

The Hulk can use his superhumanly strong leg muscles to leap great distances. The Hulk has been known to cover 3 miles in a single bound.

The Hulk has two powers apparently not related to his physical attributes, he can see astral forms, and he as a seemingly mystical homing ability that enables him to locate the area in New Mexico where he first became the Hulk. The nature of these abilities is not yet known.

Abilities: Dr. Bruce Banner is a genius in nuclear physics. On the other hand, the Hulk has low intelligence, comparable to that of a small child, although he has an undeniable cunning that aids him in battle. When Banner and the Hulk were the same being, and Banner was in the Hulk's form, Banner's consciousness was buried within the Hulk's, and could influence the Hulk's behavior only to a very limited extent.

[Giovanni Rild]

There. You fanboys don't have to look now


Real Name: Cain Marko
Occupation: professional criminal
Identity: secret
Legal Status: American citizen with no criminal record as yet
Other Aliases: none
Place of Birth: Berkeley, Calif.
Marital Status: single
Known Relatives: Kurt Marko (father, a deceased), Marjorie Marko (mother, deceased), Sharon Xavier (stepmother, deceased), Charles F. Xavier (stepbrother)
Group Affiliation: frequent associate of Black Tom Cassidy
Base of Operations: Mobile
First Appearance: X-Men #12

History: Cain Marko is the son of Dr. Kurt Marko, an atomic researcher. Cain's parents separated and Cain was eventually sent to a boarding school. Kurt Marko's colleague, Dr. Brian Xavier, another atomic researcher, died in an accident, and Kurt Marko eventually married Xavier's widow Sharon for her great wealth. On marrying Sharon, Kurt Marko moved into her large Westchester County mansion, where he lived with her and her young son Charles. Cain, who had become a cruel and spiteful boy, came to live at the mansion as well.

Cain immediately began bullying his new stepbrother Charles. But Cain was often secretly beaten by his abusive father. Charles' vast telepathic powers were beginning to develop, and on one occasion he found himself experiencing the anguished thoughts and emotions of Cain after Cain had been beaten by his father. The inexperienced young Charles could not control or end his contact with Cain's mind at this time. Somehow Cain sensed that Charles was reading his mind and had discovered his secret shame. Cain believed that Charles had invaded his thoughts deliberately, and from then on Cain regarded Charles as his enemy. Cain was abusive to his stepbrother at every opportunity.

Getting into a disagreement with his father over money, Cain accidentally upset some explosive chemicals and caused a fire to engulf his father's home laboratory. Though Kurt Marko managed to rescue both Cain and Charles from the fire, he himself died of smoke inhalation. Sharon Xavier Marko had died sometime before, tormented by the lovelessness of her marriage to Marko. Cain Marko continued to live in the Xavier mansion, growing increasingly resentful of his stepbrother's scholastic and athletic achievements as wall as of his telepathic powers, which Xavier mastered as he grew older.

What happened to Marko after he left home is unclear. However, it is known that he became a mercenary and was eventually imprisoned in a Third World jail when the revolutionary forces he was fighting for were defeated. In the jail he became friends with a fellow mercenary, Black Tom Cassidy, who used his mutant powers to help them escape.

Later, Marko and Xavier found themselves serving together in the same U.S. military unit in Asia. Marko deserted under fire and Xavier went after him to bring him back. Xavier followed Marko into a cave that housed the lost secret temple of Cyttorak, a powerful mystical entity. Marko impulsively grabbed a glowing ruby from the lap of an idol and read the inscription (which mystically appeared to his mind to be in English): "Whosoever touches this gem shall possess the power of the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak. Henceforth, you who read these words shall become forevermore a human juggernaut." As Xavier watched, the gem's mystical power transformed Marko into a larger, superhuman being. Just then enemy high explosive bombardment caused a cave-in, and Marko was buried under several thousand tons of rock. Xavier survived and returned to his unit.

Marko, now the Juggernaut, eventually dug himself free with his newfound power and made his way to America to use his power to kill Xavier. He was defeated by Xavier and his original team of X-Men. Over the years the Juggernaut has clashed with Xavier and both the original and new teams of X-Men repeatedly. He has also formed a successful criminal partnership with his old friend Black Tom Cassidy.

More recently the sentient psionic being known as Onslaught, actually an amalgamation of the psyches of Xavier and Magneto, would-be world conqueror and mutant Master of Magnetism, ripped the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak from Juggernaut's body and imprisoned him within. Inside the jewel, Cain learned he was an avatar for Cyttorak. As such, the otherworldly entity sought to assume control of Juggernaut's form. But Cain, through sheer force of will, destroyed the evil god and returned to Earth, stronger than ever, but unable to fully control his amplified abilities.

Cyttorak was merely one of a pantheon of eight gods, all with earthbound avatars. These Exemplars enlisted the Juggernaut's aid in constructing a machine that would enslave the human race. As the Exemplars tended to in their final preparations, Cain withdrew deep into himself, where he clashed with Cytorrak. Charles entered his stepbrother's mind to aid him in the battle, but the Exemplar known as Bedlam sensed his presence and expelled him. Still, Charles' short stay in Juggernaut's head had helped Cain regain control of his psyche. After defeating Cyttorak, Juggernaut destroyed the Exemplars' God Machine. He then turned his attention to the avatars themselves, defeating each in turn.

Juggernaut again was cast as a hero when the sentient spaceship Prosh escaped the confines of a Celestial prison, returned to Earth and dispatched a group of disparate beings on a journey through time to uncover the keys to preserving human evolution. Besides Cain, Prosh's task force included Phoenix and Iceman, members of the X-Men; and Mystique and Toad, mutant terrorists. Their mission: Save the human race from a threat that might not manifest itself for millions of years. Juggernaut was shown that for all his physical strength, he long has lacked strength of character. Despite all his yearning for power, he has squandered his supernaturally enhanced abilities. When Prosh reassembled the members of his team in the present, they fought and defeated the enigmatic alien entity known as the Stranger, who sought to control the natural evolution of humans and mutants. If not acquiring a newfound respect for life and human dignity, at least Juggernaut gained a better sense of understanding for the mutant plight.

Height: 6 ft. 10 in.
Weight: 900 lbs.
Eyes: Blue
Here: red brown

Strength Level: The Juggernaut possesses Class 100 strength, enabling him to lift (press) over 100 tons. The Juggernaut is said to be unstoppable, and the upper limit to his strength is not known.

Known Superhuman Powers: The Juggernaut possesses untold power, mystical in nature, which enhances his strength to an as yet unknown degree and makes him a seemingly irresistible, unstoppable being. Once he begins to walk in a certain direction, no obstacle or force on Earth has been observed to be able to stop him. Apparently, only he can stop himself. Some obstacles (many tons of rock, for example) or forces (such as plasma-discharge cannons) may slow his pace considerably, but nothing has yet stopped him permanently from advancing.

Besides giving him vast superhuman strength, the mystical energy of Cyttorak gives the Juggernaut an extraordinary degree of resistance to all forms of injury. The Juggernaut can shield himself even further from injury by mentally surrounding himself with a force field. Enveloped by his force field, the Juggernaut has survived the fiery explosion of a truck transporting a huge quantity of oil without any injury whatsoever.
The Juggernaut can survive indefinitely without food, water, or oxygen. He is sustained by his mystical energies alone.

In the past the Juggernaut has temporarily possessed telepathic abilities and certain mystical powers, all of which he has since lost.

Limitations: The Juggernaut does have certain vulnerabilities. He can be affected by mystical forces of sufficient strength. Without his helmet and/or skullcap, both constructed of an unknown mystical metal, he is vulnerable to psionic attacks against his mind. Nimrod, a robot from the future of an alternate Earth, successfully attacked the Juggernaut's mind and nervous system with advanced weaponry producing tight-beam high-frequency sound waves and a synapse dislocate that jammed his neural impulses. However, had the Juggernaut used his force field, perhaps he might have proved invulnerable even to these futuristic weapons.

The Juggernaut once attempted to transform Black Tom Cassidy into a being like himself with the ruby of Cyttorek. The result was that both Marko and Cassidy were Juggernauts, but each had considerably less power than Marko had possessed when he was the sole Juggernaut. (Marko and Cassidy each claimed to have half Marko's previous power, but this is inaccurate, considering that the Juggernaut's previous power level was virtually immeasurable.) Marko finally regained his full power, and hurled the ruby into orbit so that no one else could ever use it.

Paraphernalia: The Juggernaut wears a helmet fashioned from an unknown mystical metal found in the dimension of Cyttorak. Wearing this helmet, the Juggernaut is able to resist all forms of psionic attack on his mind successfully. Recently, the Juggernaut constructed a skullcap from scraps of the metal he used to construct the helmet. He wears the skullcap under, his helmet. Hence, if his helmet is somehow removed in battle, the skullcap will provide him continued protection from psionic attacks on his mind.

[blacklusterseph004]

Two words: Thunder Clap.In one of the movies, Vegeta is able to resist such an attack and actually defend a significant area around himself as well (he was shielding a building with people in it). I'm not sure that counts though, seeing as he hasn't really faced a similar attack in the main storyline.

[Envy]

In one of the movies, Vegeta is able to resist such an attack and actually defend a significant area around himself as well (he was shielding a building with people in it). I'm not sure that counts though, seeing as he hasn't really faced a similar attack in the main storyline.


I doubt he could stand up to Hulks, and also, Movies aren't canon

[Comic Book Guy]

is war hulk as invincible as superman then?

I am unsure, since he's equipped with Celestial Tech.

[Kuya]

Poll Wise ... looks like Vegeta won.

[Envy]

Poll Wise ... looks like Vegeta won.

yes, but then when you realize that 3/4ths of the OB are DBZ fanboys unable to be swayed, it's safe you can add at least half the votes from vegeta to Hulk/juggs.

Edit: Well.. It was stuck at 34/34 And I just voted for juggerhulk.. 35/34 juggerhulk wins. =]

[Kuya]

yes, but then when you realize that 3/4ths of the OB are DBZ fanboys unable to be swayed, it's safe you can add at least half the votes from vegeta to Hulk/juggs.

Edit: Well.. It was stuck at 34/34 And I just voted for juggerhulk.. 35/34 juggerhulk wins. =]

what does OB stand for

[Suzumebachi]

what does OB stand for


...

Outskirts Battledome.

[kapsi]

I guess WH and Juggernaut has more fanboys

[Giovanni Rild]

I guess WH and Juggernaut has more fanboys

whatever, Vegeta can't win

[kapsi]

He blasts them into sun.

[Giovanni Rild]

He blasts them into sun.

Hate to start this again but, Juggernaut is immortal, invincible and unmovable.

The only thing that can affect him is something with powerful mystical powers which Vegeta dosen't have.

[Comic Book Guy]

Juggernaut in the sun wouldn't even have a tan, I believe.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Hate to start this again but, Juggernaut is immortal, invincible and unmovable.

The only thing that can affect him is something with powerful mystical powers which Vegeta dosen't have.

Or the Hulk

[escamoh]

Amazing that this thread 30 pages and 670 posts.

[kapsi]

Hate to start this again but, Juggernaut is immortal, invincible and unmovable.

The only thing that can affect him is something with powerful mystical powers which Vegeta dosen't have.
Then he grabs him and throws him in space where he drifts for next 10 billion years. Or lifts the whole chunk on earth he stands on.

[Hangatýr]

Juggernaut doesn't need matter to walk on, he could just stroll back at leisure time.

[kapsi]

O RLY .

[Shodai700]

no not really half of these people make up bullshit powers for Juggernuat. If Juggs was immovable how comes Onslaught punched him all the way 2 canada hmm, I dont seee Onslaught with magical powers. Gladiator beat Juggernaut and Collosus has even traded blows with him. Hulk beat Juggernaut and he doesnt have any magical powers. Black Tom Cassidy almost killed the invunerable, immovable ,unstopable Juggernaut.
N if ur gona post sum bullshit powers like Juggernaut walkin in space, post sum pics

[Hangatýr]

Wait, are you really comparing ONSLAUGHT to Vegeta?

[Shodai700]

Hell Na im jus sayin Juggernaut is not that immovable and Invunerable as evey1 here is saying

[Hangatýr]

It depends on which version, though. It's true that he can't be hurt, but he can be stopped with enough force, as War II has proven, amongst others.

[Endless Mike]

Onslaught is a reality warper, possibly has more potential power than Cytorrak.

[Keollyn]

Been good for some time and I see this topic is STILL going. Not suprising though.

[Sasori]

Vegitta vs Vegitta anyone?

[superbatman86]

Hate to start this again but, Juggernaut is immortal, invincible and unmovable.

The only thing that can affect him is something with powerful mystical powers which Vegeta dosen't have.Unmovable my ass
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusandJuggySW38-2.jpg

[superbatman86]

Onslaught is a reality warper, possibly has more potential power than Cytorrak.Not at the time he KO'd juggs he wasn't.

[Endless Mike]

He had the potential though. He was still stronger than Vegeta at that point.

[Havoc]

Unmovable my ass
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusandJuggySW38-2.jpg

Juggs is unstoppable not unmovable, that's the Blob.

[superbatman86]

He had the potential though. He was still stronger than Vegeta at that point.Not without Nate Grey and Franklin Richards he doesn't.

[superbatman86]

Juggs is unstoppable not unmovable, that's the Blob.I know but OTHER posters have been going on and on about him being unmovable.

[Renegade]

I know but OTHER posters have been going on and on about him being unmovable.
Really? Didn't The Hulk move him and didn't Onslaught throw him across North America?

Shouldn't that kill the argument right there?

[Phenomenol]

Yes it should, but you have so many DBZ haters in this forum it's ridiculous! They will do all they can to bad mouth their powers.

The fight ended long time ago when Vegeta blasted them off the planet.

[Giovanni Rild]

Really? Didn't The Hulk move him and didn't Onslaught throw him across North America?

Shouldn't that kill the argument right there?

Vegeta's not Hulk or Onslaught

[superbatman86]

Really? Didn't The Hulk move him and didn't Onslaught throw him across North America?

Shouldn't that kill the argument right there?It should but people are either slow,ignorant,or too stubborn to except the facts.

[superbatman86]

Vegeta's not Hulk or OnslaughtWhat about Collosus or Iceman then.And Iceman did it with not very much water.

[Phenomenol]

Vegeta's not Hulk or Onslaught

Vegeta does not have to be the Hulk or Onslaught to move Juggs.

I did not see the planet rock when Onslaught PUNCHED the juggernaut across North America Or the Hulk knocking the damn earth's of it's axis when fighting Juggs..:amazed

Vegeta can harnish a planet destroying blast with enough power to blow Hulk and Juggs off the planet.

[Giovanni Rild]

It should but people are either slow,ignorant,or too stubborn to except the facts.

I hope you aren't referring to me, cause I accepted that juggernaut can be moved with enough force.

I just doubt that Vegeta has enough power to blow Juggernaut clean off the planet. And Juggernaut can't be killed

[Endless Mike]

You do realize, of course, that the concussive force of DBZ ki attacks is in no way proportional to their destructive power.

[Phenomenol]

You do realize, of course, that the concussive force of DBZ ki attacks is in no way proportional to their destructive power.

How do you know?:huh

Elaborate.

[Renegade]

Vegeta's not Hulk or Onslaught
Yes, but simply stating he's unmovable is false, whether it is Vegeta who can move him or not. Saying he is unmovable by Vegeta would be more fair of a statement.

[Endless Mike]

Well for one thing, if they were, Goku's kamehameha in the Saiyan saga would have blasted Vegeta all the way to Venus. Instead it just knocked him a few tens of thousands of feet up into the atmosphere.

[Giovanni Rild]

I hope you aren't referring to me, cause I accepted that juggernaut can be moved with enough force.

I just doubt that Vegeta has enough power to blow Juggernaut clean off the planet. And Juggernaut can't be killed


Yes, but simply stating he's unmovable is false, whether it is Vegeta who can move him or not. Saying he is unmovable by Vegeta would be more fair of a statement.

I already agreed to that

[Phenomenol]

Well for one thing, if they were, Goku's kamehameha in the Saiyan saga would have blasted Vegeta all the way to Venus. Instead it just knocked him a few tens of thousands of feet up into the atmosphere.

your nitpicking, Vegeta was resisting a planet destroying blast. So your point is what? So the psychics don't quite work . I didn't see the damn planet get knocked off its axis whenever the Hulk and Juggernaut throw down. I did not see the planet fall apart when Onslaught's punched Juggs across North America and did not even tend up in the atmosphere. There is a reason why comic writers don't have certain things happen BECAUSE THEN EVERYONE WOULD DIE especially Vegeta way out in Venus. It called common sense.

[Endless Mike]

Maybe because Onslaught punched him on a ballistic trajectory?

And when I point out the fact that something won't happen because the evidence is against it, you can't just ignore it when you have no evidence for your side.

When, in canon, has anyone or anything ever been blasted into space by a ki blast in DBZ?

[Phenomenol]

Maybe because Onslaught punched him on a ballistic trajectory?

Yeah, the comic clearly states the "Juggernaut flying through the air on a ballistic trajectory." you can leave now.:thumbs

And when I point out the fact that something won't happen because the evidence is against it, you can't just ignore it when you have no evidence for your side.

Go read my last post again. I ignored nothing.

When, in canon, has anyone or anything ever been blasted into space by a ki blast in DBZ?

Nobody has been knocked into space that still does not mean they can't do it. Goku has never killed a human does that mean he can't. The fact is Ki blast reach space almost instantly many examples support this.

[Endless Mike]

Yet in the only instance when a ki blast was actually used to knock a guy upwards and towards space it didn't knock him anywhere near space.

Also when Gotenks was fighting Buu, Picollo warned him that he might destroy the planet, yet the blasts he was firing were only creating craters on the surface. If they had anywhere near the amount of concussive force to destroy a planet they would have punched down at least to the core.

[Renegade]

I already agreed to that
Yeh, but I was arguing the false fact that Juggernaut is unmovable. Your reply saying Vegeta is not Onslaught or The Hulk was irrelevant to my statement.

[Phenomenol]

Yet in the only instance when a ki blast was actually used to knock a guy upwards and towards space it didn't knock him anywhere near space.

Also when Gotenks was fighting Buu, Picollo warned him that he might destroy the planet, yet the blasts he was firing were only creating craters on the surface. If they had anywhere near the amount of concussive force to destroy a planet they would have punched down at least to the core.

Veegta was RESISTING the blast! Gotenks was warming up Piccolo warned him before hand when he was shooting ki blasts.

All you are doing is nitpicking, when Ki blasts have reached space instantly on numerous counts. Kid Buu imploded the earth with a CASUAL ki blast. Juggs will get blown off the planet.

[Endless Mike]

Vegeta was taken by surprise and Goku said that he would be trying to escape the beam and get out of its radius, not fight against it. Besides, why couldn't Juggernaut resist the blast? He's much stronger than Vegeta, he just has to turn toward the source of the blast and walk forward. You're just ignoring the fact that ki blasts in DBZ have never once demonstrated enough KI to knock a human - sized object past escape velocity.

[Phenomenol]

Vegeta was taken by surprise and Goku said that he would be trying to escape the beam and get out of its radius, not fight against it. Besides, why couldn't Juggernaut resist the blast? He's much stronger than Vegeta, he just has to turn toward the source of the blast and walk forward. You're just ignoring the fact that ki blasts in DBZ have never once demonstrated enough KI to knock a human - sized object past escape velocity.

*sigh*

Go read or watch DBZ again. Juggernaut can't resist a planet destroying blast at high speeds, he could not even stop himself from getting punched across north america or pushed by Collosus. So with your logic since Goku never killed a human means that he can't okay now you can leave.:thumbs

[Endless Mike]

First of all, he wasn't pushed back by Colossus, he was hit unprepared and knocked underwater. And a punch delivers all its KE at once, it doesn't rely on a continuous application. We know Juggernaut can't be stopped by something like that if he just walks forward, so why couldn't he?

And you're using a false analogy. We know what it requires to kill a human, and Goku has demonstrated destructive power in excess of that.

However, the KE necessary to knock a human - sized object to escape velocity has never been demonstrated in DBZ.

[blacklusterseph004]

However, the KE necessary to knock a human - sized object to escape velocity has never been demonstrated in DBZ.I would have to disagree. Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it's impossible. The energy required to make a planet go critical and explode has been shown on a number of occasions by various villians, all who were eventually surpassed by Goku. Frieze could blow up planets with one attack, and Vegeta surpassed him by a long way.

I think that the amount of energy required to destroy a planet is more than enough to launch even a large heavy object into space. It's all a matter of application. You could argue that Vegeta lacks the ability to focus the energy sufficiently to move Juggernaut off the planet, not that he lacks the energy to do so.

[Endless Mike]

I would have to disagree. Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it's impossible.

I never said it was impossible, merely that there was no evidence. It's not impossible that Juggernaut and Warhulk both have Anti - Vegeta Vision, too.


The energy required to make a planet go critical and explode has been shown on a number of occasions by various villians, all who were eventually surpassed by Goku. Frieze could blow up planets with one attack, and Vegeta surpassed him by a long way.

What's your point, considering I'm talking about KE and not destructive ability?

I think that the amount of energy required to destroy a planet is more than enough to launch even a large heavy object into space. It's all a matter of application. You could argue that Vegeta lacks the ability to focus the energy sufficiently to move Juggernaut off the planet, not that he lacks the energy to do so.

Think of it like this: A nuclear warhead can destroy a city, and it definitely has enough power to blast a truck far away, but if you just pick one up and throw it at the truck, it will be lucky to budge it at all.

Different types of energy and the application thereof are what's important.

[Giovanni Rild]

Yeh, but I was arguing the false fact that Juggernaut is unmovable. Your reply saying Vegeta is not Onslaught or The Hulk was irrelevant to my statement.

What i was trying to say was you can't really compare Vegeta to Onslaught or Hulk.

Their powers are different, their fighting styles are different.

Phenomenol needs to understand that

[blacklusterseph004]

What's your point, considering I'm talking about KE and not destructive ability?

Think of it like this: A nuclear warhead can destroy a city, and it definitely has enough power to blast a truck far away, but if you just pick one up and throw it at the truck, it will be lucky to budge it at all.

Different types of energy and the application thereof are what's important.I feel like we're saying the same thing here. Infact the last thing you said was almost exactly the same as mine. Ki in DBZ has been shown to be incredibly versatile. It can convert into light (almost beam attacks), heat (the hyperbolic time chamber), and even kinetic energy, as in many cases, fighters are pushed backwards after receiving ki attacks or just being near a strong fighter when they powerup. So, Ki definitely has a kinetic component, but like I said, and which you then repeated, it just depends on Vegeta and whether or not he can maximise the kinetic component.

In fact, I just remembered that if you take a look at Piccolo vs 17, you'll see them both use a purely kinetic ki attack (they each only use it once though).

[Endless Mike]

Yet the KE demonstrated in DBZ has never been anywhere near even kiloton level.

[blacklusterseph004]

Yet the KE demonstrated in DBZ has never been anywhere near even kiloton level.Well for one, that's hard to gauge in fight like ssj3 Goku vs Kid Buu. The kinetic energy in a punch may be at kiloton levels, but because of who is actually punching who, you wouldn't really know. Both Buu and Goku were able to take insanely powerful punches.

When it comes to Ki blasts, the aim wasn't really to push the opponent around, but rather to disintergrate them. Thus, the other energy components were likely far more powerful than the kinetic part.

[Endless Mike]

Which is what I've been saying all along. There's no evidence that DBZ ki blasts can generate KE enough to accelerate a large object to escape velocity.

[Giovanni Rild]

Which is what I've been saying all along. There's no evidence that DBZ ki blasts can generate KE enough to accelerate a large object to escape velocity.

Like ole Juggy

[blacklusterseph004]

Which is what I've been saying all along. There's no evidence that DBZ ki blasts can generate KE enough to accelerate a large object to escape velocity.I've mentioned that the Ki blast has a kinetic component. I've also mentioned to you a case where two fighters used a purely kinetic attack. In DBZ, the strength of the ki blast is related to how powerful the fighter is, or how much ki they have to put into the attack.

So, If Frieza has sufficient Ki to dstroy the planet, we can assume that Vegeta at the end of DBZ posseses much more, because he had far surpassed Frieza. Therefore, he has the Ki for the attack.

If we have two cases where a fighter is able to produce a purely kinetic Ki attack, then we can assume that those attacks are also related to the strength of the Ki. Seeing as the fighters who performed the techniques were Piccolo and 17 (who Vegeta also surpassed by a long way) we could assume that he is capable of a far stronger form of the same attack.

For the sake of a scenario, if Vegeta attacks Juggernaut, he would most likely cause Juggernaut to begin some sort of charge (albeit slow) in Vegeta's direction. Using his superior speed, Vegeta could get in behind Juggernaut before he has a chance to stop. Applying the attack to an already moving Juggernaut in the same direction that he is travelling, would cause him to pick up speed rather quickly with comparitively less energy. Applied at the right angle and sufficiently quickly, Vegeta could force Juggernaut off the planet. Juggernaut's infinte momentum works against him.

Mind you, I think this would be a pretty stupid way to win seeing as Juggernaut can supposedly survive in a vacuum, but whatever. I'm merely out to show that it is conceivable that , Vegeta might have the ability to push Juggernaut off a planet.

[Giovanni Rild]

I've mentioned that the Ki blast has a kinetic component. I've also mentioned to you a case where two fighters used a purely kinetic attack. In DBZ, the strength of the ki blast is related to how powerful the fighter is, or how much ki they have to put into the attack.

So, If Frieza has sufficient Ki to dstroy the planet, we can assume that Vegeta at the end of DBZ posseses much more, because he had far surpassed Frieza. Therefore, he has the Ki for the attack.

If we have two cases where a fighter is able to produce a purely kinetic Ki attack, then we can assume that those attacks are also related to the strength of the Ki. Seeing as the fighters who performed the techniques were Piccolo and 17 (who Vegeta also surpassed by a long way) we could assume that he is capable of a far stronger form of the same attack.

For the sake of a scenario, if Vegeta attacks Juggernaut, he would most likely cause Juggernaut to begin some sort of charge (albeit slow) in Vegeta's direction. Using his superior speed, Vegeta could get in behind Juggernaut before he has a chance to stop. Applying the attack to an already moving Juggernaut in the same direction that he is travelling, would cause him to pick up speed rather quickly with comparitively less energy. Applied at the right angle and sufficiently quickly, Vegeta could force Juggernaut off the planet. Juggernaut's infinte momentum works against him.

Mind you, I think this would be a pretty stupid way to win seeing as Juggernaut can supposedly survive in a vacuum, but whatever. I'm merely out to show that it is conceivable that , Vegeta might have the ability to push Juggernaut off a planet.


That might work

[Endless Mike]

I've mentioned that the Ki blast has a kinetic component. I've also mentioned to you a case where two fighters used a purely kinetic attack. In DBZ, the strength of the ki blast is related to how powerful the fighter is, or how much ki they have to put into the attack.

So, If Frieza has sufficient Ki to dstroy the planet, we can assume that Vegeta at the end of DBZ posseses much more, because he had far surpassed Frieza. Therefore, he has the Ki for the attack.

If we have two cases where a fighter is able to produce a purely kinetic Ki attack, then we can assume that those attacks are also related to the strength of the Ki. Seeing as the fighters who performed the techniques were Piccolo and 17 (who Vegeta also surpassed by a long way) we could assume that he is capable of a far stronger form of the same attack.

For the sake of a scenario, if Vegeta attacks Juggernaut, he would most likely cause Juggernaut to begin some sort of charge (albeit slow) in Vegeta's direction. Using his superior speed, Vegeta could get in behind Juggernaut before he has a chance to stop. Applying the attack to an already moving Juggernaut in the same direction that he is travelling, would cause him to pick up speed rather quickly with comparitively less energy. Applied at the right angle and sufficiently quickly, Vegeta could force Juggernaut off the planet. Juggernaut's infinte momentum works against him.

Mind you, I think this would be a pretty stupid way to win seeing as Juggernaut can supposedly survive in a vacuum, but whatever. I'm merely out to show that it is conceivable that , Vegeta might have the ability to push Juggernaut off a planet.

Your flaw lies in the assumption that because ki can be used for different purposes, that means all the energy of a planet - destroying blast can be focused into just one of those purposes. However, there is absolutely no evidence of this. The only applications of ki ever seen in DBZ that require planetbusting energy, or anywhere near that, are the planetbusting blasts themselves. The 'pure kinetic' attacks used by Picollo and 17 were in no way sufficient to propel someone like Juggernaut to escape velocity, or even to propel a small rock to escape velocity. You just assume that this ability can be increased up to the strongest level of any ki - based ability ever seen, but there is no evidence for this.

[Giovanni Rild]

This theory is very good. This proves Vegeta is stronger.......hahahaha. By the way FUCK MINAMI RYUSUKE

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=862677

[Shadow Replication 1480]

Exactly how does it prove Vegeta is stronger?

[Shodai700]

^^ that was funny. It proves Vegeta is stronger because he is the Prince of Saiyans and is smart. Juggernaut is dumb and fat, and Hulk got beat up by wolverine

[Shadow Replication 1480]

It just means you don't have the guns to beat the opponent face-up.

Also, Juggs isn't fat and this is War Hulk we're talking about here, not regular Hulk who tends to job a lot. War Hulk was created to beat beings that'd make Vegeta shit himself.

[Shodai700]

Tell me what Villians made vegeta shit him self. If Collosus can trade blows with Juggs and War Hulk can lose 2 Galctus Vegeta is the best and will win. It is inevitable

[Giovanni Rild]

Tell me what Villians made vegeta shit him self. If Collosus can trade blows with Juggs and War Hulk can lose 2 Galctus Vegeta is the best and will win. It is inevitable

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=862889

[Endless Mike]

Right, because Vegeta > Galactus:notrust

[Suzumebachi]

^^ that was funny. It proves Vegeta is stronger because he is the Prince of Saiyans and is smart. Juggernaut is dumb and fat, and Hulk got beat up by wolverine

Drop the dupe accounts Phenomenol:wtf

I like you the way you were...

[Shodai700]

Vegeta is Stronger than Galactus. Vegeta in the marvel univese wud b a god

[Suzumebachi]

Vegeta is Stronger than Galactus. Vegeta in the marvel univese wud b a god

Proof besides fanboy bullshit?

Didn't think so. Some god. Saiyans get pwnd by heart disease and their wives.

[Giovanni Rild]

Vegeta is Stronger than Galactus. Vegeta in the marvel univese wud b a god

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=862995

[Shodai700]

Well Galctus once caught a cosmic flu in Marvel Knight #32

[Giovanni Rild]

Shodai700 Is a SuperTroll.
You know what they say, feed a fever, starve a Troll

[Suzumebachi]

hahah u r very so funny rild. Three cheers for rild the castle jester

You're still posting....

[Endless Mike]

http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyrantgalactus17cj.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyrantgalactus20wh.jpg
http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyrantgalactus38gq.jpg
http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyrantgalactus45fy.jpg
http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyrantgalactus53lw.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyrantgalactus60fm.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyrantgalactus74ia.jpg

You were saying?

[Renegade]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=862889
Sorry for the spam, but you really need to stop over using these so much. You're gonna kill it.

[Giovanni Rild]

Sorry for the spam, but you really need to stop over using these so much. You're gonna kill it.

You're right. I'll stop using it

[Cell]

Vegeta, IMO.

[Shadow Replication 1480]

What lovely insight...

[Dr.Douchebag]

Vegeta is Stronger than Galactus. Vegeta in the marvel univese wud b a god

:nod :nod ..............:rotfl

[superbatman86]

Vegeta is Stronger than Galactus. Vegeta in the marvel univese wud b a god:shocked You win the award for the stupidest thing said in a this thread.

[Comic Book Guy]

Vegeta is Stronger than Galactus. Vegeta in the marvel univese wud b a god

Jeez. I thought us posters were smarter than this. . .

[Renegade]

Just a random gif I recently found...

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/6107/drunkenbudokai201yu7gg1.gif

And nobody use it for your sig or avy, or else DM will kill you me. :sweat

[Phenomenol]

Yeah that picture and that fight is pretty common throughout Dragonball. That is how fast their Ki usually moves, that is why Juggs is blown off the planet.

[Hangatýr]

Just a random gif I recently found...

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/6107/drunkenbudokai201yu7gg1.gif

And nobody use it for your sig or avy, or else DM will kill you me. :sweat
As far as I recall, that was never in the anime.

[Phenomenol]

Sigh I am talking about the situation of how both characters are fighting and how the Ki blasts easily hits the moon.

They have been fighting like that in Dragonball, that is what I mean.

[Renegade]

As far as I recall, that was never in the anime.
Then maybe you should recall farther...

[Hangatýr]

Sigh I am talking about the situation of how both characters are fighting and how the Ki blasts easily hits the moon.

They have been fighting like that in Dragonball, that is what I mean.
Got any other proof?

And that scene was in one of the Budokai games, I think.

[Phenomenol]

Got any other proof?

And that scene was in one of the Budokai games, I think.

*Sigh*

You were the kid who watched Dragonball with his eyes closed, the proof is in the anime go watch any battles, Cell Vs. Goku, Vegeta vs. Cell, etc...

Dragonball fights at Superspeeds like that on a daily basis! Hell Ki blasts reached the moon and space easily that fast by characters. Come on man...:notrust

[Shiron]

Then maybe you should recall farther... Nope, it was from one of the games; that never happened in the anime. Tell me what episode it was from then, if you disagree.