72 Virgins

[Sunuvmann]

Because I am a lazy bum and don't want to research it...

I had been wondering about this...what is the origin of the thing of if you become a martyr you will recieve 72 virgins in heaven? Is that written in the koran or something said by an imam or what?

Hopefully someone familiair with the subject can inform me :D

[jdama]

Not true.

One is tended to by supernatural beings called "houris" in heaven. Forgot how many.

One loses normal bodily functions (eating, fornicating, defecating, etc) in the Islamic version of the afterlife anyway.

I think this information is presented in the Holy Koran. I am sure other people are more knowledgable than me, but I know one thing for sure: Sniper Island is in your heart.

[Usopp]

I am sure other people are more knowledgable than me, but I know one thing for sure: Sniper Island is in your heart.

ahahahaha yes :nod

[Shogun]

so, in other words there have been people who have blown themselves up under false pretences. How unfortunate...

[IxAmxNinja]

Or was it 72 Virginians? <_<

[jdama]

Rather, people have blown themselves up under Western misconceptions. It isn't the main reason these things happen anyway.

[Sakuragi]

I had been wondering about this...what is the origin of the thing of if you become a martyr you will recieve 72 virgins in heaven?

Is that written in the koran or something said by an imam or what?
Those 'virgins' are specifically called Hoor/Hur in the Quran. They are mentioned in ahadith as well. Here is one in particular that could explain to you what a Hoor is:

"He who is skillful in reciting the Qur'an is with the unveiled, honorable, and pious (i.e. Hur al `Ain). And he who stutters when reading the Qur'an, (and its recitation) is difficult upon him, will receive two rewards." [Al-Bukhari]

Don't confuse the earthly virgin with the heavenly type (hoor 3een), cuz they are def. not the same thing.

Yes, the Mujahideen get 72 hoors. And no, people in heaven will not get to "sin".

[Sakuragi]

so, in other words there have been people who have blown themselves up under false pretences. How unfortunate...
The problem here is how people taken a few different things, have put them together and have made Muslims look like weirdos with it.

1. Heavan- the thing about the virgins, thats something we get from the Quran and hadith (all the details about heavan) its nothing we made up on our own. And we beleive that its true because its part of our religion

2. Martyrdom- Muslims believe the best way to die is as a martyr because they will have a special place in heavan.

3. Are suicide bombers martyrs according to islam? Some Muslims Scholars say yes, some say no.

So when you link all these three things together you get ignorant statements like "Muslims want to blow themselves up to obtain 72 virgins in paradise"..

[Sunuvmann]

Ah so basically its like having 72 angels as your servants

But I do concurr with Shogan as it is likely some did it on false pretenses. But I think it more likely many who do suicide bomb themselves are poor or excessively devout and possibly sexually frustrated but more likely would prefer to shed earthly desires for heavenly.

[Shogun]

that's what they would argue.

[jdama]

I think people blow themselves up because they have very little left to live for, or a cause they believe in, not so much not because of faith.

Faith, like any belief, like nationalism in the case of the kamikaze, gives meaning to martyrdom, but is not the cause of it.

I recommend a film that came out recently called "Paradise Now", which is basically the story of the last day in the life of a suicide bomber. May help you understand how these things work.

[Sunuvmann]

I'll look into it. I saw recently the movie Syriana and they had as a side story that was quite interesting a muslim man in a middle east country who was working for an oil company whose drilling rights got bought by China and all of these were foreign workers and they show them at times studying at a mosque, playing sports, even discussing Spiderman, and at the end they show him driving a boat loaded with explosives into an American oil contianer ship.

[sukapesta]

^ i saw that movie, i hate to say this but clooney was good in it...

and about the 72 hoors... yes, they're like angels... one of their characteristics is that they're pure, they never sin... and somehow people misinterpret that as virgins, then all these pervs who think dirty just blow it out of proportions...

[Sunuvmann]

^ i saw that movie, i hate to say this but clooney was good in it...

and about the 72 hoors... yes, they're like angels... one of their characteristics is that they're pure, they never sin... and somehow people misinterpret that as virgins, then all these pervs who think dirty just blow it out of proportions...
Your movie taste is good :noworry

It may result from a mispronounciation. When I see hoors my mind phonetically interprets it as whores...[/joke...ish]

How is it pronounced?

[Jin-E]

Im not dogmatic on this issue but it seems clear to me that some muslim groups believe that there are literally 72 virgins the martyr gets as a "reward" for his actions. I actually heard reports that some suicide bombers wrapped their "you know what" in bandages to keep it from getting detached from the body and keeping their manhood "active" when they get to paradise.

This is not to claim that ordinary Muslims believes so. But its evident that certain jihadist groups use this view to entice people into performing attacks.

[Sakuragi]

Ah so basically its like having 72 angels as your servants

But I do concurr with Shogan as it is likely some did it on false pretenses. But I think it more likely many who do suicide bomb themselves are poor or excessively devout and possibly sexually frustrated but more likely would prefer to shed earthly desires for heavenly.
mmm, perhaps. But they are not angels. Angels will serve you seperately.

And personally, I do not like to label who is suicidal and who is a martyr, mainly because there is a really thin line between the two. But then again, there is this quote that does a pretty good job of clarifying it.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 147:
Narrated Sahl bin Sad As-Sa'idi:
Allah's Apostle and the pagans faced each other and started fighting. When Allah's Apostle returned to his camp and when the pagans returned to their camp, somebody talked about a man amongst the companions of Allah's Apostle who would follow and kill with his sword any pagan going alone. He said, "Nobody did his job (i.e. fighting) so properly today as that man." Allah's Apostle said, "Indeed, he is amongst the people of the (Hell) Fire." A man amongst the people said, "I shall accompany him (to watch what he does)" Thus he accompanied him, and wherever he stood, he would stand with him, and wherever he ran, he would run with him.

Then the (brave) man got wounded seriously and he decided to bring about his death quickly. He planted the blade of the sword in the ground directing its sharp end towards his chest between his two breasts. Then he leaned on the sword and killed himself. The other man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "I testify that you are Allah's Apostle." The Prophet asked, "What has happened?" He replied, "(It is about) the man whom you had described as one of the people of the (Hell) Fire. The people were greatly surprised at what you said, and I said, 'I will find out his reality for you.' So, I came out seeking him. He got severely wounded, and hastened to die by slanting the blade of his sword in the ground directing its sharp end towards his chest between his two breasts. Then he eased on his sword and killed himself." when Allah's Apostle said, "A man may seem to the people as if he were practising the deeds of the people of Paradise while in fact he is from the people of the Hell) Fire, another may seem to the people as if he were practicing the deeds of the people of Hell (Fire), while in fact he is from the people of Paradise."[Al-Bukhari]

One thing you have to realize is that Islam has the strictest rules of engagement for warfare. Ideally Muslims aren't suppost to retaliate if they are hurt out of pure anger but only for Allah's sake (this is a very important point). Muslim brothers and sisters who are going through extereme situations should have sabr (patience) and faith in Allah. "After every point of hardship their comes relief". Even though it may be hard, Muslims have to stay just to ourselves and to others no matter how hard the situation becomes. This is the real Jihad, doing justice when you have been wronged and patiently struggling to stay on the path Allah has prescribed no matter what the odds are against you.

Quran:
005.008
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 53:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, "Nobody who dies and finds good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah's Cause)."

And then there is this story of the young boy, the priest, the sorcerer and the king. The boy was given the power to heal people from their sicknesses and ailments and when the king found out he summoned him. The king ordered him to denounce his religion (Islam) but he refused to do so. The king tried a number of times to kill him by having him thrown off a mountain or drowned in the sea, but Allaah saved him each time. The boy eventually told the king how he would be able to kill him, with an arrow and by saying: In the name of the Lord of the young boy (ie. Bismilllah). The king followed the boys orders and was killed. But as a result the rest of the people said: We believe in the Lord of the young boy. The king ordered them too to denounce their religion but they refused and so a ditch was dug and and a fire was kindled in it. They were all asked to jump in or were thrown in until there was a mother with her child in her arms. She hesitated in jumping and the little boy said to her: O mother be firm and have patience as indeed you are upon the truth.

This story is also mentioned in the Quran:

Cursed were the people of the ditch. Fire supplied abundantly with fuel. When they sat by it. And they witnessed what they were doing against the believers (the burning). They had nothing against them except that they believed in Allaah, the Almighty, Worthy of all Praise!

You can clearly say that the boy had committed suicide because he had told the king how he can be killed. But his intentions are what set him apart from the man with the sword. If someone is going to kill themselves because of sexual urges, then they should know damn well that that is NOT martyrdom in Islam. I really don't know where someone would get that idea that people are killing themselves because of that, perhaps the media?

But I'll conclude with this:
Every drop of sweat and every breath we take in life, if not taken for the sake of Allah, will lead to regret and sorrow on the Day of Judgment --Ibn al Qayyim
And this is common sense to a Muslim.

[Sakuragi]

If someone is going to kill themselves because of sexual urges, then they should know damn well that that is NOT martyrdom in Islam. I really don't know where someone would get that idea that people are killing themselves because of that, perhaps the media?

Im not dogmatic on this issue but it seems clear to me that some muslim groups believe that there are literally 72 virgins the martyr gets as a "reward" for his actions. I actually heard reports that some suicide bombers wrapped their "you know what" in bandages to keep it from getting detached from the body and keeping their manhood "active" when they get to paradise.

This is not to claim that ordinary Muslims believes so. But its evident that certain jihadist groups use this view to entice people into performing attacks.
LOL I just read this. :amuse

The martyr will be rewarded in many many ways. But a martyr is one who fights solely for the sake of Allah. Even if they wrap their "you know what" as the media says, (practicing) Muslims know that that will not help you what-so-ever.

Plus, heavenly humans will be quite different than earthly humans. And every Muslim knows (or at least they should know) all this. I haven't even gone to an Islamic school and I know this, so how could somebody who lives in a Muslim country not know it?

Point is: I don't believe there is any Muslim who is actually kill him/herself because of the 72 virgins thing. The media can say whatever the hell they want about people who blow themselves up, I don't really mind it. Because I personally believe that jihaad/martyrdom in Islam is something they will never be able to understand. I mean, I can die in a soft plush bed, never having touched a weapon, and die a martyr...

Oh, and they are not pronounced "whores". Its more like "who" rather than "hoe".

[jdama]

The first letter is "houri" is a guttural "h" as well, making the pronounciation even more difficult for non-Arabic speakers.

Allow me to just theorize something (pardon me my Muslim brothers and sisters, Istaghfar Allah al Azeem....): you need to understand that the Holy Koran was not delivered to the prophet (praise be upon his name) in a vacuum of space and time. We need to see it in context.

The arrival of Islam as a culture signified a great revolution in the way of life for the Arabs of the desert in the sixth century AD. It ended a period that we now call "al Jahilyya" ("the age of ignorance"). Much of the imagery, I think, isn't to be taken literally. So the idea of the houri's, rivers of milk and honey in heaven, etc. were revealed and conveyed because the Arabs at the time were a rather barbarous, nomadic, and "uncivilized" people, and sensual language as such was necessary to convey the image of heavenly bliss.

That story about people wrapping up their privates says nothing of Islamic culture save the extent to which people have degraded it. A true shame.

The idea of martyrdom in Islam shouldn't be so strange, as Christianity also emphasizes sacrifice, which is the essence of martyrdom: giving up your interests for the greater good.

[Sakuragi]

The first letter is "houri" is a guttural "h" as well, making the pronounciation even more difficult for non-Arabic speakers.

Allow me to just theorize something (pardon me my Muslim brothers and sisters, Istaghfar Allah al Azeem....): you need to understand that the Holy Koran was not delivered to the prophet (praise be upon his name) in a vacuum of space and time. We need to see it in context.

The arrival of Islam as a culture signified a great revolution in the way of life for the Arabs of the desert in the sixth century AD. It ended a period that we now call "al Jahilyya" ("the age of ignorance"). Much of the imagery, I think, isn't to be taken literally. So the idea of the houri's, rivers of milk and honey in heaven, etc. were revealed and conveyed because the Arabs at the time were a rather barbarous, nomadic, and "uncivilized" people, and sensual language as such was necessary to convey the image of heavenly bliss.

That story about people wrapping up their privates says nothing of Islamic culture save the extent to which people have degraded it. A true shame.

The idea of martyrdom in Islam shouldn't be so strange, as Christianity also emphasizes sacrifice, which is the essence of martyrdom: giving up your interests for the greater good.
Yup, you are correct akhi. :)

[Mat®icha]

i am a muslim, still i dont believe in such stories

[Mr. Samsa]

Some Muslims believe it is 72 mansions with 72 beds with 72 virgins, I dont know where they get that version though, however it is the second highest level of Paradise. The more common belief is 72 virgins only. I was told that by a friend of mines boyfriend, he is from Lebanon (he is of Syrian decent though) can anyone pin point where this particular belief stems from?

[..?]

There are plenty of narrarations about paradise in books of hadith...theses books contain the words and comments of the Prophet on the many different aspects of life, the meanings of verses in the Quran, and details about previous Prophets(peace be upon them all) and their nations...and much more.

From various narrations and verses it is clear that in heaven the men will have multiple wives as companions.

Hoors are not humans but they arent angels either....they are described as pure, and beautiful....

This seems strange to someone who dives into a religion head first and wants to know only one thing about it(hoors and such)...unfortunately it cant work that way...you have to understand each idea in conjunction with the rest of ideas and concepts.

Also people dont kill themselves because of hoors - they kill themselves because their families and friends are dead and they feel like dying...^_^

Theres alot more to know about islam, martyrdom, jihad, heaven, suicide bombings...and their definition in islam than what we have in front of us on this forum....

Also- the point of this thread seems to be to ridicule islam...or maybe you really did want to learn/understand something, but in that case you posted in the wrong place. There are many sites with a translation of the Quran and Hadith...i think that would be the correct starting point. You could also try an islamic forum...def not narutoforums.... haha since you are more likely to get a group of kids saying "haha yea thats funny"...any how sorry about all the spelling and grammar errors...typed in a hurry...pm me if you want links

ps. pretty sure there is eating in heaven - and every muslim knows the
Quran isnt stories, Matrich ^-^

[jdama]

I think people who watch anime/naruto are an important demographic and it is useful to bring things up in here and broaden eachother's horizons as fans of the same culture.

[..?]

^_^ you got me there...

[Sunuvmann]

Yeah it was mostly a matter of curiosity (there are a lot of comedians doing jokes about that) and I was wondering what the real deal was on it and I had seen that there were a lot of muslims on NF so who better to ask?

And since it was the last week of summer vacation I didn't feel like actually researching :P

[TheFlameAlchemist]

As a muslim, A sunni, my father is a Sufi, He tell's me story's all the time, in my perspective, marytr is only when you die for no reason by a bad person in a holy war, not while your killng inocents and get killed in the process.

[jdama]

"Who is a martyr" depends on situation and position relative to a center of interpretive power in the "dunia" (material world), only Allah can truly know and judge ("Allahu a3lam") the essence of good and evil, and of martyrdom in the afterlife, if I were to follow such logic, which assumes that the divine is the absolute source of morality.

[..?]

of course...suicide isnt martyrdom. I meant to point out that many of the suicide bombings are out of grief...not for martyrdom....i think

[google123]

If true, it would give a whole new meaning to the word whore...

[Kunoichi]

The word hoor is actually the plural of ahwar (applicable to man) and of haura (applicable to woman) and signifies a person having eyes characterized by hauar a special quality bestowed upon a good soul, male or female in paradise and it denotes the intense whiteness of the white part of the spiritual eye.

The Qur’an describes in several other verses that in paradise you will have azwaj which mean a pair or spouse or companion which means you will have spouses or companions pure and holy (mutaharratun means pure, holy).

"But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: "Why, this is what we were fed with before", for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (forever)".
[Al-Qur’an 2:25]

"But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath – their eternal home; therein shall they have companions pure and holy: we shall admit them to shades, cool and ever deepening". [Al-Qur’an 4:57]

Therefore the word hoor has no specific gender. Mohammad Asad has translated the word hoor as spouse and Abdullah Yusuf Ali as companion. Therefore according to some scholars a man in paradise will have a hoor that is a beautiful maiden with beautiful big and lustrous eyes and a woman in paradise will get a man with beautiful big and lustrous eyes.

Many scholars say that in context, the word hoor used in the Qur’an refers only to ladies since gents are addressed. A reply that would be accepted by all types of people would rather be the answer given in the Hadith when a similar question was posed that if a man gets a hoor, a beautiful Maiden in Paradise, then what will the women get? The reply was that the women will get that which the heart has not desired for, the ear hasn’t heard off and the eye hasn’t seen, indicating that even the women will get something exceptional in Paradise.

[GOD'S BITCH]

Muslims who blow themselves up are not martyers. Instead they are cowards. Suicide is a major sin that will earn you a one way ticket to hell, especially when your intension is to take a few innocent civilians with you. However, in times of war, blowing yourself up in order to kill a few soldiers is in fact an act of martyrdom that we'll result in a place in heaven. From what I know in regards to war, Muslims cannot hit the non-believers first. Non-believers are suppose to attack or start the war first~kind of like if they hit you, hit them back. The suicide bomber we see today attack first an thats what makes them cowards.

The problem here is how people taken a few different things, have put them together and have made Muslims look like weirdos with it.

1. Heavan- the thing about the virgins, thats something we get from the Quran and hadith (all the details about heavan) its nothing we made up on our own. And we beleive that its true because its part of our religion

2. Martyrdom- Muslims believe the best way to die is as a martyr because they will have a special place in heavan.

3. Are suicide bombers martyrs according to islam? Some Muslims Scholars say yes, some say no.

So when you link all these three things together you get ignorant statements like "Muslims want to blow themselves up to obtain 72 virgins in paradise"..

[vincent]

Because I am a lazy bum and don't want to research it...

I had been wondering about this...what is the origin of the thing of if you become a martyr you will recieve 72 virgins in heaven? Is that written in the koran or something said by an imam or what?

Hopefully someone familiair with the subject can inform me :D

The leaders of the some terroist groups claim that if you do it you will be rewaded in heaven 72 virgins which actually means hundreds in english. but they claim thats what the quaron says the muslim holy book. but it actually doesn't i was watching a documetary on muslim religion on the qoran and it says nothing like that at all. so terrorist are just being dooped in killing themselves and many other people. so the result there in hell being raped by 72 gorilla's with ................. a pineapple and other ummm utencils.

[..?]

vincent - no

sunuvmann - look at my earlier post in this topic.They are mentioned in the Quran...just not in numbers. Hadith is where the numbers are derived from.

[Razgriez]

and this is why Im athiest. No religion can seem to get their facts straight and will even disagree with people of their own religion or create different versions. Thats why theres thousands of different versions of their religions.

Everyone who blows their selves up for their religion are simply throwing their lives away for a lost cause.

[UtahCrip]

why you want 72 virgins? give me 72 chiccs who know how to work the dicc and i'll be good.

[ArchMagus]

Hey if you had a goal that required some of your followers to kill themselves you would probably tell them something like that. Really its just good tact as a leader getting them to believe that.

[NineG]

The first letter is "houri" is a guttural "h" as well, making the pronounciation even more difficult for non-Arabic speakers.


is that like the name rhimou ? that they make a kind of astma sound H to pronounce it ?

*dunno if it's the same since that name is from morocco *

[..?]

why you want 72 virgins? give me 72 chiccs who know how to work the dicc and i'll be good.

Thats great. Youve proven it -you really are gangsta.

[jdama]

NineG:

I guess you could call it an "asthma sound"... it is a guttural "h" created in the back end of your throat, not the "kh" or "ch" as in "Bach", though.

It's like the "h" in "Habibi" ("my love"), listen to any arabic song for the use of said word and you'll get the idea.

I don't like virgins much either, was just explaining said misunderstanding. Such women are considered desirable/valued in patriarchial and poorer areas in the world though, since they should be, in theory, easier to control....<cough>....little to they know.....

[Total Biscuit]

I also heard that in addition to the 72 virgins thing, potential suicide bombers are told that 'matyrdom' is such an act of greatness that Allah immediately forgives all your sins in life. I thought to myself, that seems mightily convenient for recruitment drives, doesn't it..? You commit all the sins you want in life, then blow yourself up and get immediately forgiven. Has anyone a take on this?

[jdama]

I think personal anger and frustration against an oppressive force is the main driving force behind such things. A suicide bomber's main motivation most likely isn't a checklist of potential posthumous religious benefits. It's more like "this is personal", and faith/brainwashing/recruitment is not the most dominant factor. You have to be really pissed off to blow yourself up, more than really reassured by what comes afterwards, or else everyone and their cousin would be a suicide bomber if it were a sure shot to heaven. It is a violent, extreme reaction to similarly extreme and oppressive circumstances (I am not in any way justifying such acts this way, only trying to understand them).

Note that there have been suicide bombings in the middle east and elsewhere in the world that were not tied to religion or religious groups.

[..?]

You commit all the sins you want in life, then blow yourself up and get immediately forgiven.

Those dirty terrorists - thats probably exactly what theyre thinking about when they are commiting sins. They probably just do every sin they want and think to themselves "Im just going to blow myself up anyway and be forgiven so whats the big deal."

Im pretty sure the driving force behind all this is personal feelings.

[Ryousuke]

These ideas must have been spiritual drugs. heheh.

[TakiHatake]

Because I am a lazy bum and don't want to research it...

I had been wondering about this...what is the origin of the thing of if you become a martyr you will recieve 72 virgins in heaven? Is that written in the koran or something said by an imam or what?

Hopefully someone familiair with the subject can inform me :D


@_@ I never heard that!!? I would now like to know myself. I hope to be enlightened. :amazed

[..?]

check for my earlier posts in this thread - i think i said something about it ^_^

[TakiHatake]

check for my earlier posts in this thread - i think i said somethink about it ^_^


Oops! My bad! :oh

[vincent]

@_@ I never heard that!!? I would now like to know myself. I hope to be enlightened. :amazed

like i said earlier it was something that the leader of some terrorist groups use to manipulate people into doing there deeds.

[TakiHatake]

like i said earlier it was something that the leader of some terrorist groups use to manipulate people into doing there deeds.


Oh, i must have missed that! I sorry! My bad!

Wait.....that's a messed up reason. ~_~

[vincent]

Oh, i must have missed that! I sorry! My bad!

Wait.....that's a messed up reason. ~_~



I know it is but i was watching some little documentary on it and thats what they said. It interested me being from the U.S. and our current stituation on the war on terrorism.
It's wierd people want to pull out the troops but if you think about it what do you thinks going to happen when we do. we'll be bombed like hell it will look like we were a firework.

I'm sorry if i affend anyone.

[..?]

You mean the oil raid...?

like i said earlier it was something that the leader of some terrorist groups use to manipulate people into doing there deeds.

The source of a martyr getting 72 virgins is Hadith. However commiting suicide is a sin and not martyrdom...one last thing....NO RANDOM PERSON KILLS HIMSELF FOR 72 VIRGINS - TRUST ME. Of all things to die for i think oppression, dead families, dead friends, lonliness...happen to come up higher on the list these days.