Rock Lee vs Hyuuga Neji

[runnincrazy]

Just like to say would Neji beat Lee without his speeds? The only indication that we had of a fight between Neji and Lee was one year before the Chunin exams when Lee had just above average speed and strenght. Even Kabuto tells Sasuke that in the past year his physical stats have gone hella high. There was never an indication of a fight between Neji and Lee when Lee had his max speed. The only indication that we have that Lee is weaker than Neji is that Lee tells us that the Ura Renge was meant for Neji.


However the regular Omote Renge could easily beat Neji in a second. Neji couldn't even master the Omote Renge and there would be no way he could block against the attack beacuse Lee would be too fast. Even the Kaiten would be a waste (even though he learned that after the prelims). Lee had probably never fought Neji with the non weighted speed. If he had he would have used the Omote Renge and won. However he never did. It is true that Lee might not have wanted to break his promise but if the move was to beat his rival he would have. Lee had probably never fought Neji recently and just over estimated his skills. I mean Gaara's sand couldn't keep up with Lee so there would be no way Neji could since Gaara's sand blocked every one of those Rain guys needles.
LEE! (http://www.msnusers.com/_Secure/0VQDoAtYZE1xuR0F0StOgzkc3!QEPVS1OsVkq2r1GJZaNLXeZQ VEez3QseGqlhI4!vcG1B8B*48B!Hbel9OIVtguMmOm323VN4Yf SU!R!gW6vKs4XjrHP0MC8c!!8zw1t/naruto-10-5-01.jpg?dc=4675461099604764147)

[otakueric]

neji could beat rock lee upto when rocklee open the 3rd or maybe 4th gate

[Explosion of Youth]

the real question is if Rock can overpower the Kaiten.....If Rock is in gate mode, Neji better be doing the kaiten all freakin day or he will get his ass pounded into the ground

[ÜzamakiÑaruto]

rock lee can beat neji only on the 1st gate...duh... did u see rock lees speed without the gates and he took off the weights. Neji had a very very hard time only the sharingan could keep up with the speed and using the kaiten would be useless just a waste of chakra... he would run outta chakra within the first hour using kaiten... lee can instantly manuver himself away from kaiten when being used...

[DeathWolf]

think rock lee can win..

[Luzzio]

Rock lee has a higher chance of winning. But if Neji times his moves fast and accurate enough, he might be able to use his defensive Jutsu Kaiten as an offensive one, and hit Lee when he comes close.

[ÜzamakiÑaruto]

tahts the thing, your not geting the point of speed right now...
and rock less fighting style..
first Rock lee can manuver himself when kaiten is being in use and second Rock lee has Drunken fist fighting which leaves Neji to nothing but poop!

[Luzzio]

I said Lee has a higher chance. And its not impossible for Neji to win if he uses brains :) Nothing's impossible, even Konohamaru has a chance of beating Itachi to a pulp, though the chances are 1:999999999

[bluewolf]

sure.. rock can beat neji with 4 or 5 gates open.. BUT

unless he starts the battle with the gates open neji seems to be able to handle lee at any lesser state. and rock oppening the gates against neji would be frowned apon in a normal fight. they duel quite often but using the gates for a simple duel is like sasuke and naruto using chidori and rasengan against each other... basicly they would be in trouble.
... and lee would be fucked up.

[[GeNMa]]

only the sharingan could keep up it has been mentioned that Byakugan has a better eye of insight that sharingan.. ;/

[Jyuuken]

neji could beat rock lee upto when rocklee open the 3rd or maybe 4th gate

i have to agree with that...

one thing, when lee took off his weights, every genin including gaara was surprised and impressed by his speed... and neji just stood there with his arms fold leaning against the wall without any sign of impression...

its only when lee started his 3rd gates did neji start to show a sign of surprise... and also when lee was in his 4th gate mode flying around, neji's eyes are still fixing on lee, meaning he did not lose track of lee...

so i would say lee will only have a chance against neji when he is in at least 4th gate mode...

[Final Ultima]

']it has been mentioned that Byakugan has a better eye of insight that sharingan.. ;/Insight =/= muscle movement prediction acting as foresight.

[Xanth]

I don't know... Neji seems to get through battles mostly unscatched. I mean in the fight against Naruto he only got hit 1.5 times. .5 goes to the time when he had to use kaiten to block. In his fight against Kidoumaru... he was flawless for a time. Then the projecticles starting raining down. I'm sure the Byukugan has at least comparable insight to the sharingan.

[Q2Student]

There is also the fact that Neji knows Lee well, especially his tendencies. True, the opening of the gates just might be enough for Lee to win, but I think that Neji's intelligence would be able to cope with it quickly enough.

Also, it would only take Lee hitting Neji's spinng defense one time at high speed to get injured, and Byukugan allows Neji to see everything around him with a high degree of accuracy.

My money would still be on Neji, though nit by much.

[OPTIMUS PRIME]

LEE all the way! WooT! later

=========OPTIMUS

[¤Naruto-Kun¤]

Seriously, its obivious!! LEE WOULD BEAT THE FUCK OUT OF NEJI!
neji has been making fun of lee his whole life, the anger lee would feel when remembering those times alone would drive him to fight at a whole new level.

[Nidaime-Sama]

Lee is not one to hold grudges hence what he said to Gaara. Also Neji is not the same person who insults people and believes in an already made destiny

[Boner]

I don't think Lee n Neji will ever fight...but if they do it won't be as simple as Lee opening the gates.

[volcano_insurance]

eh, lee would kick nejis ass in three seconds flat

[rubbereruben]

I think Lee could beat his ass. He ROCKs.... ^_^

[runnincrazy]

You guys remember that Neji learned Kaiten after the practice rounds. He never had Kaiten when Lee was fighting Gaara.

[ÜzamakiÑaruto]

either way lee can still beat neji speed is all that matters now with power and thats what lee has, remember altho neji has a 50ft range of sense and vision at 359.5degree vision, lee can move to fast to be sensed by neji, lee would be going so fast that neji thinks hes everywhere. but neji is training now for 3 years so pretyt much hes gonna have something up his sleeves by then also with lee

[runnincrazy]

Yah they'll both probably have some stronger kickass moves =]. It'd be cool if Lee could be able to open all 8 gates and even learn some new taijutsu moves. =]

[jemakai]

You guys remember that Neji learned Kaiten after the practice rounds. He never had Kaiten when Lee was fighting Gaara.

He DID have Kaiten, he just choose not to use it in his fight against hinata. After the fight pupet dessert guy(I forgot his name) said that he is an monstor and was holding back alot of his power in that match. Do you guys think he just learned that during that month? He probably learned it the same time Lee was learning to use the gates.
If Lee wants to win he has to out last Kaitan, but can he do that? You guys are forgeting that fast speed and opening gates takes alot out of him, he doesn't have much time after he opens a gate. I think that it would be a tie, with them both being exausted and neji acknowledging Lees strenght(I think it will still be even after the time jump). :cool:

ps. If Lee learns to open all 8 gates then he will be able to kill neji, but if they both die I still see it as a tie.

[Chillin]

Lee just taking off his weights would not be enough to defeat Neji. Neji beats Lee's ass until he opens 5 gates, then it is up in the air. Then I imagine it depends on if Neji can get the Kaiten off in time before Rock Lee goes on his onslaught, or if Neji gets it off in time, can Lee penetrate the Kaiten.

[runnincrazy]

No watch Episode 55 again or read that one chapter (FORGOT!!! But I'll edit my post and get it in here soon). Neji learns Kaiten when he is training with Tenten after the matches.

[ÜzamakiÑaruto]

your not getting it against lee adn nejis kaiten.
if lee is so fast, then neji cant see where hes going, especially in that speed faster than a reg eye. to use kaiten takes out chakra and speed too, but lee canjust allow neji to use kaiten by wasting the time. neji cant use kaiten in time for lee to come in and hit.

[Raikiri]

It's a draw at best for Lee. He can't land a knockout blow on Neji unless he opens 5 gates, and with 5 gates, he will end up in the hospital with grave injuries again. I guess you could call that a 'victory', but when you have to cripple yourself to beat someone, that's not much of a victory in my book.

[jemakai]

No watch Episode 55 again or read that one chapter (FORGOT!!! But I'll edit my post and get it in here soon). Neji learns Kaiten when he is training with Tenten after the matches.

Just because that was the first time you saw him practice with it, doesn't mean that he didn't have before then. It would be silly to use one of your best moves when you don't need to, it gives away your ability to surprise your opponents. He probably would not have used it in his fight with naruto if he didn't have to, he is not one to show off. Kankurou said that Neji was holding back. I will give you that fact that I don't know for sure that he knew it before the prelims, but all the hints show that he did.

And you guys still think Lee can run around all day with that speed, he can't. both of them will run out of juice at the same time. It will be a draw. It even the best outcome plotwise(Neji admits that Lee is his equal, fans of both characters are happy!).

[ÜzamakiÑaruto]

by the time neji spins lee can see that hes using the kaiten thus avoiding the counter and making neji waste his chakra more. y u thikn speed has a greater advantage then power. and also opening each gate allows the user to increase the flow the chakra in his body thus having the same amount of chakra but using it faster and stronger and giving him a secret intense amount which causes his muscles and such to get injured.

[runnincrazy]

Uhh what happened in that episode? Tenten was like Neji you have surpassed human limits and all her knives flew away right before she said that. She wouldn't say something like that unless its a new move. As for the Kaiten move thing, how is Neji even going to move his body fast enough to use the Kaiten when Lee is atleast 3 times faster.

[ÜzamakiÑaruto]

tahts what im saying speed overruns the power especially in lees case he has immense speed and immense power that combines to a deadly and crazy combination

[runnincrazy]

Yah even if Neji can see where Lee is he cannot move fast enough to block the attack. Neji would lose quickly.

[jemakai]

Uhh what happened in that episode? Tenten was like Neji you have surpassed human limits and all her knives flew away right before she said that. She wouldn't say something like that unless its a new move. As for the Kaiten move thing, how is Neji even going to move his body fast enough to use the Kaiten when Lee is atleast 3 times faster.

Ten Ten will say anything, she is on neji's jock. Anyway we both have no evidence to back up what we say, but I still feel that Kankurou's quote(a unbaised 3rd party) overules Tentens cheerleader rants anyday.

Hasn't Neji already seen Lee take off his wieghts? If he saw him doing that he would just start the kaiten. And even if he didn't he could take one or two punchs, the guy was impaled twice by spider boy, he is tough.

[runnincrazy]

What did Kakuro say? He said squat. He just said that Neji is above Naruto's level. Who knows Neji better; Kankuro or Tenten? It is Tenten no matter what you say. Kankuro doens't even know what the Kaiten is and he doesn't even know how much real power Neji has. He assumes Neji has more because Neji won without trying and Naruto had to work hella hard to beat Kiba. That is what Kankuro meant.

[ÜzamakiÑaruto]

either way lee can beat neji overall

[L. Lawliet inactive]

I'm pretty sure Rock Lee would win.

Sure, Neji could see every move he makes. But he won't be able to respond in time.

Lotus!

[ÜzamakiÑaruto]

thats what im saying

[Naruto_Uzumaki]

Lee will kick nejis ass to hell

[Khimatri]

I REALLY don't think lee would be able to beat neji unless he used the lotus kamikazee moves.. Neji could probably still see Lee, even if he was moving at super fast speeds, and even if he could only see a blur he could probably still hit Lee with a Kaiten. Neji is also a more tactical fighter and could probably find a way of stopping Lee's attacks.

[Dody]

I REALLY don't think lee would be able to beat neji unless he used the lotus kamikazee moves.. Neji could probably still see Lee, even if he was moving at super fast speeds, and even if he could only see a blur he could probably still hit Lee with a Kaiten. Neji is also a more tactical fighter and could probably find a way of stopping Lee's attacks.

yah it makes sense.. lee is more " lets die 2day".. he doesnt think further than his hand.. eventhough he *HAVE* a chance defeating niji.. but niji aint like garaa a defensive dude.. niji have really killer movies offencive.. plus lee doesnt have another chakra.. so its really an low odd for defeating niji.. only if SOMETHING happend hehe

[Techchu]

hmmm.....Lee would win no doubt about it neji's defense is pretty fast but...Lee is just fast

o an lee would use his primary lotus.... who would win then....lee!

[Khimatri]

I don't think the Initial Lotus would work on Neji.. His kaiten could break the bandages and rip the whole thing to shreds.

[Saurus]

Please vote at here (http://www.narutofan.com/index.php) , u need to be a member of www.narutofan.com /// vote to see who wins

GO NEJI

[IronFist Alchemist]

Neji all the way

[Saurus]

Neji all the way
great minds think a like

Plz vote for NEJI

[4thokage]

Rock leads oh yeah o yeah

[abfluvver]

Lee <3

Lee's eyebrows > everything about Neji

[rubbereruben]

Buhaha, Rock Lee will pwn his ass into tomorrow. :)

[Code]

Neji obviously wins unless Lee uses 5 Gates. Rock Lee himself said that the Ura Renge combo was the key to beating him. Anything less he would lose. That is even not including the fact that Neji most likely trained after the chuunin exam.

[Nidaime-Sama]

I doubt even Lee could break through kaiten, and I am sure the genius of the Hyuuga clan has figured out how to beat the 5 gates. As so many have stated "the same jutsu won't work on me twice". Also would Neji even let Lee open the gates? I'm sure he will close his points thus making opening the gates inoperable

Neji is faster and stronger while Lee has been healing

[ageofdarkness]

Neji all the way. I'm not sure if Rock Lee can win with 5 gates
or the drunken fist style. :)

[SSJ_Link]

Rock Lee would tottaly win

[kaitenjyuuken]

Neji wins

Lee with weight < Neji
Lee without weight < Neji

i doubt that Lee opening 5 gates will be able to defeat Neji, sure he is super fast, but when lee vs gaara, with all 5 gates opened, neji can still see his every movements, it'll be hard but neji will be able to evade lee's attack via Kaiten and counter him, afterall, lee opens all 5 gates to perform one high speed combo meaning he has to defeat neji with that single combo, since neji has byakugan and kaiten, defeating neji with one combo, although high speed, is very improbable...

drunken fist however will prove to be strong against neji, unpredictable moves and being very evasive as well, both shinobis will find themselves engaged in a game of evade and trying to land a hit.. time wasting... but neji still wins because of him having 64 palms hakke(100% hit ratio) and the fact that lee won't get drunk forever...

but lee may win on the cost of his life if he opens all 8 gates...

[ChaochroX]

this would be a kick ass fight. I'd say too close to call.

[RaitoRyuukashin]

but lee may win on the cost of his life if he opens all 8 gates...
Whats up with ppl wanting to open all the gates.... if 7 was the last gate would you have said he woulda won then? If so why cant seven gates be enough.... IN fact 6 should do it.... ppl just want to see the 8th gate open gawd

[Nidaime-Sama]

If you open all 8 gates you gain for a short period of time strength that surpasses the Hokage. However, even opening 5 gates pretty much destorys you, so opening 6 or 7 would be equally deadly

[Spidey]

i think this is a close one as well, but.. i think we all know that i am gonna say lee. He is just too fast and too determined for neji, but he would have to open some gates, so he wins but is badly hurt in the end

[Reclaimer914]

I think Lee would definately win, by the time Neji would start the whirl, Lee could execute Extreme Lotus.

[Nidaime-Sama]

Extreme Lotus is not instant, he has to do the power-up phase

[Reclaimer914]

Yeah but not even Gaara's shield of sand could block it and it's involuntary.

[Nidaime-Sama]

The sand couldn't keep up with the speed, where Neji's chakra comes right directly from him. Also even the armour of sand held up against Lee's assult all he did was crack the layer

[Silent Reality]

If they ever did get around to fighting again who do you think would win? I think RockLee would win. Reason. Once he opens those gates he has power that could suprass Hokage and I doubt Neiji could be able to keep up with his strength and speed. Also once RockLee uses Primary Lotus on Neiji,it's over. Just my 2cents :). no flames please.





btw, if for some reason this battle was already done in the anime (haven't seen all of it yet) then can some one delete this thread.

[RaitoRyuukashin]

Reason. Once he opens those gates he has power that could suprass Hokage and I doubt Neiji could be able to keep up with his strength and speed.


i forget how the gates make you stronger than hokage? Which hokage idk.... if sakura was pronounced hokage today and Rock lee used his gates would he get....weaker?



lol sorry if thats a flame i still think neji wins

[Devilguy]

As strong as a Hokage, true, for a short time just before kicking the bucket. A high price just to beat someone.

[Nidaime-Sama]

Only when he opens the 8 gates does he become stronger than a Hokage, Lee cannot do this. Also since Neji has seen Lee open the gates do you really think he would allow him to do it? he would shut him down pretty quick

"the same jutsu won't work on me twice"

[OmniStrife]

Rock Lee wasn't as strong as a Hokage, to be as strong as a Hokage, one has to open all 8 gates, while Lee is capable of opening only 5.

[Naruto_Heart]

and even if Lee manage to open 8 gates...does that really means that he would be as strong as the hokage?

perhaps that is the case for Gai...

i strongly believe that the strength gained after opening gates differ greatly among individuals...its purely up to their potential.

if opening gates meant the same power boost for everyone...
does that mean that konohamaru (a trainee ninja) will have the same power as a hokage as long as he open up 8 gates?
that means anyone can be a temporary hokage isnt it?

that would be downright hilarious isnt it?

and btw, Rock lee knows nothing other than Taijutsu...
guess what...Neji's jyuuken style is the best form of taijutsu we seen in the series...

so rock lee doesnt stands a chance...furthermore Neji's still have byakugan to aid him in the battle.

[Ghost-]

Actually it's stated that the "enough power to surpass a hokage" is only when all eight gates are opened, as said by Gai-sensei. As we all know, Lee can open five, not eight. Even if he could open them all it would be a mute point because he would die right after as opening all the gates has been stated to be 100% lethal to the user. Also it never makes the distinction of which Hokage it makes you stronger than because it's not refering to making you stronger than certain people, it means it's making you stronger than the Hokage title itself, as in a general sense of if you open all eight gates, you temporarily have the power to defeat even the strongest shinobi leader of the strongest shinobi village (note that having the power does not nessisarly make you win either...power without the ability to use it properly is well...useless, it's like having a howitzer but not knowing how to fire it).

Besides, in my opinion the fight would never advance that far, because Lee can only use taijutsu he has to get close to Neji, whom then shuts down his chakra system. Unless Lee attempts to use the gates first, in which case while he is "powering up" Neji runs over and shuts down his chakra system anyway...it's not like Neji would be stupid enough to let him just use the extreme lotus techinque after seeing what it did in the chuunin prelims.

[euglee15]

well i'm a rock lee fan so i would have to cheer for him even though i think neji would hae the upper hand. it's ok though cause rock lee has the determination to win.

[Mizura]

Hmm... anyway, Lee can only open 5 gates for now. During the Chuunin exams, he was hoping to use that as his trump card to defeat Neji. However, now that Neji has seen it, I sort of doubt that it would work. There's no evidence for example that Neji had used the Kaiten to counter Lee before, Neji probably developed it with partly countering Lee in mind, so I doubt opening the 5 gates remains Lee's main card to beating Neji.

*manga spoilers*

What I Am curious about though, is how Lee's Drunken Fist would fare against Neji. The Drunken Fist is completely unpredictable. Neji can see 360 degrees all he wants, but it might not be enough to counter Drunken Fist. Given how well Lee fared against the freaky Kimimaro, I'd say Neji would have a hard time hitting a fully recovered Lee using Drunken Fist, with perhaps several gates open. Sure Kaiten would fend off Lee's attacks for a while (though it would not necessarily defeat him, it's not impossible for Lee to simply leap back while using Drunken Fist to avoid Kaiten), but Kaiten only lasts a short while, Lee can keep up his attacks.

So yeah, I think Neji vs Lee depends on how well Drunken Fist would fare against Neji. Any thoughts?

[SaiST]

See the Sharingan vs Drunken Boxing thread in Konoha Library, Mizura. Pretty much all the arguments there can be applied to Neji/Byakuugan going up against Lee's Drunken Fist. If it can't work on Sasuke, it won't work on Neji.

Lee's only means of beating Neji is through the Ura Renge. If he doesn't use that, he'll be beaten.

[RaitoRyuukashin]

Yea ppl tend to forget Kimimaro did all that w/o doujutsu so they think it applies to everyone in the world. When Doujutsus are like 10 times better than Kimimaro as they really dont even have to think about it

[Invisus]

Lee will win, Neji looked like he was going to shit himself when Lee opened the five gates so I doubt that Neji could do much other then be beaten senseless. Though if he managed to shut Lee down before the gates could be opened it's an entirely different story.

[RaitoRyuukashin]

i dont know how long neji can Kaiten but if he doesnt get to lee before he opens the gates He can Kaiten for a while.... I dont think lee can get past kaiten even with 5 gates.

[Vamoo]

Hmm... anyway, Lee can only open 5 gates for now. During the Chuunin exams, he was hoping to use that as his trump card to defeat Neji. However, now that Neji has seen it, I sort of doubt that it would work.[/COLOR]

What difference does it make if he has seen it or not? It's not like Kakashi is now immune to Mangekyou...
A jutsu won't work twice only if you actually have the ability to nullify it: there's nothing magical involved with seeing a technique.

[Spidey]

i think lee would win as well. If he went all out, i don't think neji could keep up, especailly if he opened the gates

[Vamoo]

See the Sharingan vs Drunken Boxing thread in Konoha Library, Mizura. Pretty much all the arguments there can be applied to Neji/Byakuugan going up against Lee's Drunken Fist. If it can't work on Sasuke, it won't work on Neji.

Lee's only means of beating Neji is through the Ura Renge. If he doesn't use that, he'll be beaten.

How can you compare Sharingan and Byakugan? What is it from the Drunken Boxing thread that can be applied to this one?
Lee is the fastest and strongest genin of all, I don't see him loosing that easily against another taijutsu user.

[SaiST]

How can you compare Sharingan and Byakugan?
I didn't.

What is it from the Drunken Boxing thread that can be applied to this one?
Did you even read Mizura's post?

[Nidaime-Sama]

As stated gentlefist is the best taijutsu in Leaf Village, this includes drunken fist so this style would mean bunk

Lee is slower than he was, and as many shinobi have stated the same jutsu won't work on me twice. So I doubt the genius of the Hyuuga hasn't though of a plan to counter extreme lotus

[hitokiritensai]

the thing is, neji would still be fast enough to counter lee without gates open. neji has fast reaction speed as well as the byakugan which has great insight

with 5 gates open, lee could possibly be able to attack neji. but, i doubt lee would be able to fight at five gates long enough for neji to run out of chakra using the kaiten

in other words, either neji hits lee while lee is releasing gates, or he puts up kaiten all the while that lee is on 5 gates. i doubt that lee would be able to keep up 5 gates longer than neji can put up kaiten. lee would fall down first due to the side effects of the gates

[rikku]

neji definitely! even lee said neji is the strongest in his team! and plus, neji is not only a genius but also hard working!

[Aidake]

Man, this is an interesting match up... and I was already posting about this on another thread. I think Neji would win this one and that's all I'm gonna say lol :p

[Cosmo_Rainy]

just curious but is it ever stated that neji is hardworking?
because all i saw from lee vs neji is more of hardwork vs genius

[Literally Exaggerated]

We often see Neji training, one point he trains until he blacks out.

the only geniuses, in fact, who we see who don't work hard are Kakashi and Shikamaru. Orochimaru, Itachi, Sasuke and Neji all seem just as obsessed with bettering themselves as Rock lee is

[Calendir]

We often see Neji training, one point he trains until he blacks out.

the only geniuses, in fact, who we see who don't work hard are Kakashi and Shikamaru. Orochimaru, Itachi, Sasuke and Neji all seem just as obsessed with bettering themselves as Rock lee is

Yep, true. But Rock Lee is a genious of hardwork. Even Gai says so. And he really do train _alot_ Maybe more than Naruto..

[RaitoRyuukashin]

Yep, true. But Rock Lee is a genious of hardwork. Even Gai says so. And he really do train _alot_ Maybe more than Naruto..


But Rock lee has 2 otherwise he is useless

[Code]

just curious but is it ever stated that neji is hardworking?
because all i saw from lee vs neji is more of hardwork vs genius
Well whenever we see Neji outside a battle we see him training. We've seen him work extremely hard as mentioned before in his training. There aren't much moments when Neji isn't training and not in battle or watching a battle... It doens't have to be stated as it is clearly shown.

[Naruto_Heart]

Genius + Hardworking = supreme

no talent + super hardworking = very good
(thats the very most you can go...if you got no talent in something...no matter how hard you train...you will not be able to catch up with someone with the natural talent(provided he is working hard as well...though not as hard lol .)

[StryfeChaos]

Naruto beat Neji and Naruto is not a Genius

[---Kenji-kun]

Yup.. Neji probably wins he's a hell of alot smarter I think ...

[StryfeChaos]

more smart yes, more innovative no. Innovation is Naruto's strength, like Lee's is a iron will and the will to always come back stronger than before.

[Nidaime-Sama]

huh? Neji's not innovated? He learned two powerful jutsus on his own, he created a new chakra bubble which detects and trajects attacks which he used with Kidoumaru. When things were looking the bleakest he planed a attack that took down Kidoumaru by taking a hit against him. You don't think he had strong with with the Kidou fight?

Naruto beat Neji the first time because he was over-confident, which he isn't anymore

[Jeltz]

Using taijutsu agianst Neji isn't good. He can use kaiten and shut down peoples chakra flows. Neji would only lose aginst Lee if he became careless (like when he fought agianst Naruto).

[jemakai]

If they fought in the future it would be a draw. This gives Lee the respect he deserves while Neji is not reduced to lower then Lee in terms of power.

[Darkken]

You know, I'm not entirely Kaiten could stop Lee's kicks or punches. The Kaiten releases chakra all around him, and basically pushes things away from him, regardless of which direction they come from. That's good enough for blowing away kunai or Naruto's weak shadow clones, but Lee, who is far stronger and faster than Naruto, who also knows to watch out for it? Lee would either get through or it would be a stalemate, with Neji losing chakra. After all, Lee could strike through - yes, through - Gaara's sand barrier, even without having opened the gates.

For this reason, I doubt Neji would even try using the Kaiten against Lee except if he was really in trouble. It's a waste of chakra and he couldn't possibly nail Lee with it the way he did Naruto. He got Naruto because he is far weaker than Lee in taijutsu and because he caught him off guard.

Which brings me to my point - what really makes Lee and Neji an interesting match-up is that they know each other so well. They couldn't trick each other. Lee would have difficulty using something like the Initial Lotus after Neji's seen it and he probably wouldn't want to, either, and on the other hand Lee wouldn't fall for something like the 64 Hands of Hakke because he is simply so fast that he Neji couldn't catch him with such an elaborate attack. Neji wouldn't want to rely on Kaiten because it'd be a waste of his chakra.

Therefore, the battle is reduced into a pure and simple fight of two different styles of Taijutsu, because any complex tricks wouldn't work. And Neji and Lee complement each other very well there, I think. Lee is stronger and undeniably faster; Neji, on the other hand, is more purely dangerous up close, and he reads and reacts very well. But I would imagine that the Byakugan eats stamina much like the Sharingan, and Lee has far higher stamina to begin with, so it evens out pretty well, though Neji's probably the one having an easier time, since Lee has to be more careful.

[RaitoRyuukashin]

and on the other hand Lee wouldn't fall for something like the 64 Hands of Hakke because he is simply so fast that he Neji couldn't catch him with such an elaborate attack


128 hands now kthx
From what i am seeing the Byukagan and the Sharingan are starting to resemble each other more and more
Sharingan seeing chakra inside ...byukagan slowing time..

[tmmyc]

Lee has very little chance of success. Here's why.

It was stated that the databook has Neji and Lee at the same speed. Lee does not have a speed advantage.

Lee has only taijutsu. He uses his chakra to make himself really fast and really strong. Neji is very defensive. He is able to see all around him and he has speed to block. He has a good eye and good intuition which allows him to make smart decisions when he is not overconfident. He will not be overconfident against Lee after watching Lee in the Chuunin exam.

Lee cannot get too close to Neji. One step too close and it will be answered by the Hakke. Lee does not have any trump cards to protect against this as Naruto and Kidoumaru had.

If Lee were to attempt Drunken Boxing, this lowers Neji's ability to predict Lee's moves. What does Neji do when he is cornered? Kaiten. Neji sees that Lee is approaching, he will use Kaiten. Even if Lee were to somehow get around Neji, Neji's Kaiten protect all sides. Doing this over and over would be like watching a drunken man repeatedly running into a wall.

Lee with gates, two scenarios:

1. Lee will not use the gates. He has already reached near-death using the gates, why would he risk it again? His surgery had a 50% chance of success, how much success would a second surgery have? Lee would resign before resorting to the gates.

2. Lee with the gates. This is still open to me. I can't imagine who would win if it were Neji versus 5 gate Lee. The only possibility for Neji is if he were able to survive Ura Renge as Gaara did and then couterattack. Mid-air Kaiten? Otherwise, Lee would probably win right before becoming hospitalized, again.

This is why Lee has a very small chance of success. If I am wrong anywhere, let me know.

[SecondaryLotus]

I just want to see it happen. But to appease Fanboys and girls, I would imagine the creators would either give Rock an unsurpassed amount of power and still lose, or he beats Neji and realizes his dream. Because hey...no one really thought Naruto stood a chance against Neji did they? I doubt it. Neji could technically beat most of the Genins in the Leaf, but if you're a writer on the show and you place Rock Lee and Neji in a match, the likelyhood is you'll either have Rock unlock more Gates in order to win and still lose, because by doing this you are giving the viewers a chance to see Rock at his best or he does win in fact by some stroke of luck or sportsmanship between teammates, because Lee and Neji will be worn out to the point where Neji could deliever one hit and win...but he pulls and Rock Lee wins it. That's my way of viewing it from the writer's standpoint, not the stats of the characters themselves, because that is pretty much in favor of Neji.

[xxShikamaruxx]

http://www.naruto-kun.com/images/jutsus/DivinationField,64Strikes.jpg and http://www.naruto-kun.com/images/jutsus/HeavenlySpin.jpg

Hate to say Neji whould Win againest Rock Lee

[Marsala]

If Rock Lee and Neji ever fight, the only satisfactory way to resolve it is a tie. Lee has worked too hard to fail against his greatest rival, but Neji shouldn't be punished for being a natural genius by letting Lee surpass him. Not to mention Neji is already being left behind by Naruto, Sasuke, Gaara, and in the worst case scenario, even Sakura. (Hey, it could happen.)

[RaitoRyuukashin]

Should show a picture of Nejis new Move... Neji Seems to be incredible Fast him self.... He saw everything in bullet time but moved his natural speed

[Aidake]

Should show a picture of Nejis new Move... Neji Seems to be incredible Fast him self.... He saw everything in bullet time but moved his natural speed
Err.... where was that in the manga? I never saw it... Anime LIED! :p

[tmmyc]

Lee has yet to show us that he can win in battle :P

[RaitoRyuukashin]

If he stop getting pwnt , drunk , incapacitated then he would have time

[Sato Lee]

Okay there is already a thread about those 2 characters before. But What if if Rock Leef fought Neji instead of Gaara in the preliminary exam fights who would win?

[ItAcHi21989]

i say.............. neji....... my reason would be because neji is more mature to his charka then lee during this time.

[Uchiha-Itachi89]

rock lee he was the strongest one there, luckly gaara escaped the attaque..

[Kamendex]

rock lee he was the strongest one there, luckly gaara escaped the attaque..

He was not the strongest out there...he went all out and couldnt defeat gaara, and naruto could

[SaiST]

and naruto could
Not at that time, not during the Chuunin Exam Preliminary Matches.

Lee was capable of defeating Neji during the Preliminary Matches through the Ura Renge. According to Gai, it was Lee's sure-fire way of defeating Neji, a high-speed combo that he could not counter.

So, there you have it. Unless Lee acts like a dumbass and tries to use some of his lesser Taijutsu on Neji before attempting to use the Ura Renge, he should have the win.

[Sensou Kage]

Naruto could not beat Gaara at the preliminary. He didn't know summoning no jutsu, couldn't use the kyubi chakra(Oro's seal) and was just overall weaker.

Now back to the topic of Lee and Neji. Neji didn't know the kaiten back then. I don't have hardcore evidence but he was training with Tenten to learn it. We also don't know if you knew the 64 strikes ether(He was holding back a lot during the hinata fight). So basically I think Lee would have owned Neji so bad then. He probably still can now but that's another topic.

[IT_TI]

I think Lee would win..

[jemakai]

From the way Neji reacted he wasn't surprised at all from Lee's display of power untill he opened gates 2-5, even when Lee droped his weights Neji didn't even flinch.

I give Lee the benefit of the doubt, If Lee was unsure that opening 5 gates may not be enough to beat Neji it points me to the conclusion that Neji had to have Kaiten before the preliminaries. This in addition to the fact that Kanakaru said that Neji was a monster and was still holding back(I assume that Neji was holding back Kaiten on purpose). It also seems a bit to convinient that he took a year off to train for the chunnin exam, just to learn his 2 most powerfull moves in one month (even though Lee already learned he most powerfull moves during that same year off)

It seems that he was just practicing the kaiten with tenten, not that he just learned it.

Any way a kaitenless Neji can never hope to beat 5 gate Lee, while if he had his kaiten it would be a waiting match between the two to see who's stamina/chakra runs out first(contrary to what most believe, opening the gates themselves doesn't do much damage, its what you do after you open the gates that hurts you).

[Insipidipity]

Yea, but even kicking after opening the gates can start to rip your muscles. Gai said that he needs high speed to beat Neji, but never guaranteed it would work.

Then again, Lee makes a great rival for Neji in that he cant disable him with the 64 points since he doesn't mold chakra. I wonder if he could open the gates if his tenketsus were closed though because it would seal off the lines into the rest of his body. Or he could overload his tenketsus and burn them out so chakra cant flow through him making him faster.

[!-justicer-!]

If he tries to force chakra out while his tenketsus were closed he would most likely die...

I bet neji would lose, lee-kun was just too much, that power... it's nothing like kaiten can handle, unless neji can spin time enough to stop lee for about 5 minutes (duration of the 5 gate stamina boost ''approx'')

[Sato Lee]

My money goes with lee, because behind gaara he was the second strongest in the group. When Neji fought Naruto during the main fights, his speed didn't seem to be has fast Lee during that fight. This means that Lee had a good chance of beating Neji with just his taking his weights off.

*spoiler, if you haven't watched eps 90 and above*

*Here is question for you guys. Does opening the gates also start destroying the spinal cord and or skeleton has well? Because I don't any other explanation for what the fifth told Lee. Or is that by hitting gaara Lee started to hurt his bones has well.*

[Seymourbuts]

er.. i thought Lee admitted that he wasnt the strongest in his group.. or its probably just that i made it up from memory @_@

I think Lee would win if he opens all 5 gates

[Insipidipity]

My money goes with lee, because behind gaara he was the second strongest in the group. When Neji fought Naruto during the main fights, his speed didn't seem to be has fast Lee during that fight. This means that Lee had a good chance of beating Neji with just his taking his weights off.
I dont really think Neji used all his speed in fighting Naruto. Its like how Sasuke doesnt use his speed all the time. He probably figured he could win without straining himself since he still had more battles to win afterwards. Sasuke only used up his speed because he needed it against Gaara.

Notice he still managed to start kaiten even though Naruto charged at him at Kyubi speed. His attack was a parry, you have to be fast enough to counterattack to parry, so he could be as fast as Kyubi Naruto's attack.

[Code]

Before I would've said Neji wins and obvious. But then Lee did the Ura Renge. But then in front of Neji so Neji now knows he knows it... So Neji still wins.

[Kurau]

During the exam? If it happened during the preliminaries id say Rock lee for sure.. But after it it, during the 1month break Neji learned kaiten and all that..

[Oldboy]

Rock lee couldn't beat gaara cos Gaara is the ultimate anti-taijutsu guy among those genins. Against neji phew, rock lee maybe wouldn't have to open gates, just dropping the weights is enough. How do you think that a human being will stay alive after primary lotus?( don't say gaara, he has lame no jutsu).

[korican04]

During the exam Rock lee would have broken neji along with his own body. If lee was fighting neji during finals i say neji. But during the chunin exam only garaa would have survived lee's onslaught.

[fiddlinnero]

Where are you people coming from suggesting that Neji didnt know either the Kaiten or Hakke during the 1st round. Gai himself says Lee's trump card is the Ura Renge, there is no way he would need to resort to that if Neji only knew basic Jyuuken ala Hinata. The comments about Neji "holding back" only reinforce this. As for the actual fight it could go either way. As people have previously mentioned, nothing Lee did against Gaara worried Neji until the later gates were opened for Ura Renge. Lee felt inferior to Neji for a reason, namely sans the Ura Renge hes no match for Neji. The odds in this match definitely favor Neji. His Byakugan and Jyuuken plus Kaiten nullify Lee's speed advantage, and make close combat suicide for Lee. However, as the Naruto fight shows, Neji's biggest weakness at this point is his arrogance. He lost to Naruto only because he underestimated him and likewise he could lose if he underestimates Lee. In the end it comes down to whether Neji could seal up Lee before he opened the gates for Ura Renge, and unless Lee goes for it right off the bat he could. I say 65-35 odds Neji wins.

[xenex]

In response to fiddlinnero: neji was still trying to perfect the kaiten after the end of the prelims (the ep where neji is surrounded by tentens weapons and then passes out). If Neji passed out from kaiten practice involving only tentens barrage, there is no way in hell he would have survived Lee with his gates open.

Of course this is assuming that the the scene in the anime is also in the manga, which I haven't confirmed. Either way, I don't really care about a Neji/Lee fight. I'm not really interested in either character.

[fiddlinnero]

The point is Lee doesnt have anything besides Ura Renge which could break the Kaiten and if he doesnt pull that out quickly neji will soft punch him into oblivion. The Ura Renge is Lees trump card, he can win with it, but without it hes outclassed.

[xenex]

Soft punching being able to attack a person internally is cool and all but a simple punch, if thrown with enough force, could easily do enough damage to Neji. We've already seen that Lee is the kind of guy that won't let a little internal bleeding stop him from fight (he stood up after having several bones shattered).

I'm not saying Rock Lee is this uber strong ninja who could woop on neji without breaking a sweat. And again, I don't think Neji had enough control over Kaiten to have used it in the match, but if he did I doubt it would have made much of a difference. If Lee acts fast enough, he can hit neji before he starts the whirl.

I hate how, hyuuga fanatics make kaiten seem like this unbreakable barrier. It's just neji, spinning really fast and exerting chakra from his pores. What happens if someone were to run arround a spinning Neji?

I'm also sick of defending a character I don't even like. I'm going to sleep.

[Naruto_Heart]

Soft punching being able to attack a person internally is cool and all but a simple punch, if thrown with enough force, could easily do enough damage to Neji. We've already seen that Lee is the kind of guy that won't let a little internal bleeding stop him from fight (he stood up after having several bones shattered).

I'm not saying Rock Lee is this uber strong ninja who could woop on neji without breaking a sweat. And again, I don't think Neji had enough control over Kaiten to have used it in the match, but if he did I doubt it would have made much of a difference. If Lee acts fast enough, he can hit neji before he starts the whirl.

I hate how, hyuuga fanatics make kaiten seem like this unbreakable barrier. It's just neji, spinning really fast and exerting chakra from his pores. What happens if someone were to run arround a spinning Neji?

I'm also sick of defending a character I don't even like. I'm going to sleep.

what happens if someone were to run around a spinning Neji? cmon...give Neji some credit...you think with his byakugan and immense talent...he would just simply perform kaiten for nothing??? for show???

and note...if someone dashes towards Neji in an attempt to hit him...you think its that easy to stop in midway and start running around Neji hoping that he will eventually stop spinning and leave himself vulnerable to an attack?

i love the way where you paint Neji's as an idiot...oh an attack coming...i cant dodge...nevermind "KAITEN!" hey...he isnt attacking...he started to run around me...nevermind...i will keep spinning till im tired and leave myself open to his attacks...yea very nice.

and Kaiten being the unbreakable barrier...yea right...from what we seen in the series so far...absolutely nothing has broken through when Neji is in a full spin...so describing it as unbreakable isnt unreasonable until we finally get to see someone seriously break through kaiten and hurt Neji...

[rubbereruben]

Lee would win! He's superfantastic!

Seriously though, Ura Renge would own Neji so hard... it wouldn't be funny.

[Jyuuken]

few things here...

for those that think that lee can win the match by simply dropping his weights... i suggest u ppl watch the series again...

first off, i dun think neji is as fast as lee! thats for sure, but the catch here is neji doen't need to be as fast, cause he need not move physically into opponent's blind spot to gain an advantage nor does he need to move fast enough so as to not let opponent get into his blind spot... thats the advantage byakugan gives neji!

but is he so slow to the extent where lee can just appear in his face and give him a punch without knowing it coming? obviously not... his byakugan and reaction time has been shown to be very good when it comes to hand to hand combat and he probably has the fastest and most accurate hand movements... and not even lee can match him in this aspect... so if up close, he is much more deadly than lee even when lee open the first 2 or 3 gates... plus kaiten as a defence mechanism, i think neji can handle lee up to at least the 3rd gate...

if lee goes straight to 4/5 gates, then i say lee will most likely win the match... if anything else, once up close, which they have to (both are melee fighters), it will be neji...

[Oldboy]

few things here...

for those that think that lee can win the match by simply dropping his weights... i suggest u ppl watch the series again...

I've seen the series 3 times... Rock lee gaara fight 4 5 maybe. I am not sure if neji is as fast as lee without the weights. With his speed lee can avoid neji but even if neji has byakugan he can't avoid lee coz even if he senses lee with his byakugan his body can't keep up with lee's speed. I said there is no need to open the gates, the reason why he opened em vs gaara is that gaara survived secondary lotus. Neji doesn't have that kind of defense, when he hits his head to stone ground like that there will be no need for lee to open the 5 gates coz the match will be over already.

[SaiST]

Lee used the Ura Rengeon Gaara because it was his only chance at defeating Gaara at that point. Gaara didn't just "survive" the Omote Renge, he entirely avoided getting damaged at all because he Kawarimi'd right in the middle of it.

Lee's weightless and Omote Renge speed is not enough to defeat Neji. Ura Renge is Lee's only means of getting the job done. Neji can counter him any other way.

[Jyuuken]

I've seen the series 3 times... Rock lee gaara fight 4 5 maybe. I am not sure if neji is as fast as lee without the weights. With his speed lee can avoid neji but even if neji has byakugan he can't avoid lee coz even if he senses lee with his byakugan his body can't keep up with lee's speed. I said there is no need to open the gates, the reason why he opened em vs gaara is that gaara survived secondary lotus. Neji doesn't have that kind of defense, when he hits his head to stone ground like that there will be no need for lee to open the 5 gates coz the match will be over already.

how did u know that lee will overwhelm neji just by taking off his weights? how did u know that lee will be too fast for neji that he cant keep up? did u measure those speeds?

and mind u... if neji can execute well timed kaiten, it will be more deadly than gaara's defence... cause a fast moving lee will be parried and countered badly...

[tri-sapphire]

5 gates=KO'd Neji. Lee wasn't saving them for nothing, and during the prelims Neji hadn't mastered Kaiten yet. The first few shots of him training afterwards showed him dead tired and Tenten in bad shape. Then during the morning of the final exams it showed him barely warmed up, and Tenten totally exhausted.

[Oldboy]

how did u know that lee will overwhelm neji just by taking off his weights? how did u know that lee will be too fast for neji that he cant keep up? did u measure those speeds?

and mind u... if neji can execute well timed kaiten, it will be more deadly than gaara's defence... cause a fast moving lee will be parried and countered badly...

Heh the answer to "did u measure those speeds" question is easy... No one is suprised seeing neji move or attack but when lee took of his weights every one was saying that their eyes couldn't keep up. Also we see it that way too. It is drawn and animated that way. Yes lee is faster.

Executing kaiten takes some time, he has to start spinning first which lee can see and move according to that. Gaara can use that sand defense so many times but neji can't use kaiten so much. And i doubt neji had mastered kaiten during preliminaries...

[Insipidipity]

Although he hadnt mastered it, it just means he can't perform it exerting a lot of chakra. But keep in mind that its more than just leaking chakra. Its a spin thats designed to parry. The main part of the spin is to cover his blind spot. What the parry does is inflict more damage to the user than was done to him. He can parry from any direction since he has almost full coverage of everything in an 50m range. Neji still had the capability to use it to reflect as much damage as Lee was performing due to his high speed. Also, the chakra stops things from penetrating too far giving him time to parry. Its not unbreakable, but its probably one of the hardest moves to counter, hence why its so secretive its only been passed down the head family. Its a move thats withstood the test of time and evolution yet Neji was developing it on his own.

Gai might have thought Lee's Ura Renge was necessary, but it doesnt necessarily mean he knew Neji could use Kaiten. Every one of Neji's moves is either his own genius or Hyuuga style, Gai couldnt teach it so Neji never had to actually tell him what he was capable of.

Also, while Lee's offensive capabilities are strong, Gaara wasnt the fastest opponent to test his defensive speed.

[tri-sapphire]

Lee disappears, Neji flies into the air, endgame.

5 gates Lee is much, much faster than Neji's reaction time.

[Shidoshi]

Heh the answer to "did u measure those speeds" question is easy... No one is suprised seeing neji move or attack but when lee took of his weights every one was saying that their eyes couldn't keep up. Also we see it that way too. It is drawn and animated that way. Yes lee is faster.Everyone except Neji (and perhaps Ten Ten) was surprised...and that's the key part. Lee might be faster than Neji without the weights, but he was not able to defeat Neji before...and Neji was not impressed with his weightless speed, presumably because he's experienced it before...

[tri-sapphire]

But he was quite amazed when Lee opened the gates, which was the main thing in the prelims.

[Shidoshi]

But he was quite amazed when Lee opened the gates, which was the main thing in the prelims.Only when Lee performed the Ura Renge ("Extreme" Lotus)...because he didn't know about it. He wasn't surprised at Lee using the Omote Renge ("Initial" Lotus)...or anything else prior to that...

Which is something Sai has been saying throughout this entire thread...

[korican04]

Like many have said including myself during the prelims Lee going all out (which includes Ura renge kaioken x10 attack chakra emitting ground tearing up technique) would have beaten neji but actually would have beaten lee also as the story showed. Lee with out that attack would have been beaten. Neji wasn't impressed until that attack and also he knew Lee was strong so he wouldn't have taken him lightly anyways, which is why lee would have to use Ura Renge.
When he was talking to lee, he told him that he didn't the rookies down enough, and when tenten was like "you think lee might have ...(lost)" neji responded "Not likely". Neji also remembers how lee was the only one able to do any of the lotus moves, so Neji would take lee seriously in a fight and thus cause lee to use ura renge.

[Insipidipity]

Well he knows Lee isn't a rookie. Lee is probably good enough to handle almost any genin, except Neji, which is probably why Neji figured he shouldn't have lost. He still knows he can beat him. Lee called himself second best because he knew the Ura Renge only gave him a CHANCE to beat him, not a guarantee.

[jemakai]

Without knowing kaiten during the prelims there is no way in hell Neji can beat 5 gate Lee.

With kaiten it would be a match of endurance, who can outlast who longer. If Lee doesn't do anything after opening 5 gates it doesn't hurt him that much, but at the same time Neji would have to constantly keep kaiten up.

[tmmyc]

Ura Renge is Lee's only hope at defeating Neji. Otherwise, Lee is going to just end up the loser again... and again...

So the question is, can Neji survive Ura Renge? Can he take the hit and somehow inch his way out or can he avoid it completely? Or is Neji a dead man, going against a person faster than he. Even if Neji can see it, can he react to 5 gated speed? Even Gaara asked "Is this movement human?" Would Kaiten make it in time? I for one am not sure at all.

[Oldboy]

Neji's chance of survival after ura renge = 0.02. If he is that lucky, he can beat lee.

[Jyuuken]

Heh the answer to "did u measure those speeds" question is easy... No one is suprised seeing neji move or attack but when lee took of his weights every one was saying that their eyes couldn't keep up. Also we see it that way too. It is drawn and animated that way. Yes lee is faster.


oic... drawn and animated... so lee must be faster than kurenai, oh wait... perhaps asuma too... no wait... his even faster than jiraiya, orochimaru, tsunade, sandaime... :omg

Oldboy, u just made me realise something new in the world of naruto... :kksharing

[RaitoRyuukashin]

Even if Lee Grabs Neji to do the Ura renge (which we al know causes lee lots of pain)



5 gates Lee is much, much faster than Neji's reaction time.

Gaara Barely has any reaction time at all due to is reliance on his sand he countered the renge.... Twice .. Your Saying if after rock lee grabbed him Neji couldnt perform somekinda Aerial Kaiten or better yet Jyuuken a lee who is already literally dying from the pain

[zinnia]

i think lee would have won during the exam. :)

[jemakai]

Even if Lee Grabs Neji to do the Ura renge (which we al know causes lee lots of pain)





Gaara Barely has any reaction time at all due to is reliance on his sand he countered the renge.... Twice .. Your Saying if after rock lee grabbed him Neji couldnt perform somekinda Aerial Kaiten or better yet Jyuuken a lee who is already literally dying from the pain

The whole point of hiting them in the air is to knock them silly before you give them the lotus.

If Neji gets hit with the set up for the lotus he will be to dazzed to do much in the air, but Lee still has hurry and finish him before he bites it himself.

[Shishou]

Lee would win, hands down.

Neji's kaiten was beaten by Kyuubi Chakraed Naruto... Ura Renge definently was faster and stronger. Neji wouldn't be able to do anything against it.


Even when Neji saw the Ura Renge he was kind of shaken up, until he saw Gaara still won.

[Naruto_Heart]

Lee would win, hands down.

Neji's kaiten was beaten by Kyuubi Chakraed Naruto... Ura Renge definently was faster and stronger. Neji wouldn't be able to do anything against it.


Even when Neji saw the Ura Renge he was kind of shaken up, until he saw Gaara still won.


So now how do you know that Ura Renge is definitely stronger and faster than Kyuubi chakra Naruto?

and correction...Neji's kaiten was not BEATEN by Naruto (Kyuubi Chakra)...they were both repelled...and at that time...Neji wasnt even in a full spin.

[~.:random:.~]

rock lee would do ura renge, end of story, neji would not be able to start his kaiten against the speed of the lotus. Naruto v neji was different, naruto stupidly charged at neji (he didnt run as fast as lotus, lee was so fast you couldn't even see him) quite slowly so neji was expecting him to hit him so he had a chance to charge his kaiten just enough to repel naruto's attack.

[Oldboy]

So now how do you know that Ura Renge is definitely stronger and faster than Kyuubi chakra Naruto?

and correction...Neji's kaiten was not BEATEN by Naruto (Kyuubi Chakra)...they were both repelled...and at that time...Neji wasnt even in a full spin.

Whats this fanboysm, what do you mean he wasn't at full spin? Heh how could u understand that? Tenten saw the incident and said nothing about neji not being on full spin, she said naruto has no chance... I can't say if ura renge is stronger than kyubi powered chakra but, neji wouldn't have time to use kaiten since lee is 100x faster than naruto.

[Shidoshi]

neji wouldn't have time to use kaiten since lee is 100x faster than naruto.You base this on....................what, exactly?

[Shishou]

I have never seen Kyuubi Naruto move at such a speed, that the ground beneath him explodes.

And until I see that, Lee's speed in Ura Renge will always be superior.

[Oldboy]

You base this on....................what, exactly?

Based on the moment when naruto sees lee's speed when lee takes off the weights... The moment when he opens five gates. Go watch those episodes quick.

[mrberns]

Not at that time, not during the Chuunin Exam Preliminary Matches.

Lee was capable of defeating Neji during the Preliminary Matches through the Ura Renge. According to Gai, it was Lee's sure-fire way of defeating Neji, a high-speed combo that he could not counter.


Completelly right. No one could have defeated Gaara at the preliminaries, and Naruto was the only one that could after. Lee was close though, and at the time, as long as he just went straight into the extreme lotus, he could have ruled Neji.

[Naruto_Heart]

Based on the moment when naruto sees lee's speed when lee takes off the weights... The moment when he opens five gates. Go watch those episodes quick.

do you happen to know that when 2 person/objects is racing...

ex...a snail (Gaara) and a rabbit (Lee)....their speed difference would be so damn obvious where anyone can spot the difference.

but if 2 person is about of the same speed Neji, Kyuubi Naruto...you can hardly tell the difference of speed between them...

so how on earth do you know that Lee Ura Renge is faster and stronger than kyuubi naruto punch then?

both of them give them extreme boost in power and speed...so how do you exactly know which one is stronger?


Ura Renge is Lee only chance...i would emphasise...only chance of defeating Neji...so pitting only chance against many chances (neji taijutsu is far superior) ...you think Lee gonna have a decent chance of defeating Neji? right? only through Ura Renge.

[d1eg0]

if lee start fighting without weights, and opens the gates in the begining, lee will win, if not, maybe neji woulg hit some of his tenketsu, and everything would change

[Limitles Shadow]

Does Lee run into a Kaiten? Then what happens?

That's why he needed to suprise Lee.

If he does, he loses (he can't see the counter most likely if he's attacking head-on).

Neji might not even know what Lee is doing (5th gate) but may activate Kaiten just in case as sa precaution and then Lee hits the kaiten...

Kaiten is a wall, if you kick a wall the wall kicks back with the same amount of force (theoretically).

[Jyuuken]

I have never seen Kyuubi Naruto move at such a speed, that the ground beneath him explodes.

And until I see that, Lee's speed in Ura Renge will always be superior.

neither did we see any jounins move in such ways... heck even hokages and sanins dun move like that... does that mean lee is faster than them?

[tri-sapphire]

Ura Renge has Neji pwned. That's all there is to it.

Maybe not post-prelims, when Neji had yet to master his Kaiten (it used all his chakra to get through Tenten's routine the first time it showed him practicing, while the morning of the finals he was just getting warmed up), but Lee had Neji totally shocked with just the 5 gates alone. The incredibly fast hi-speed combo of the Ura Renge, was the secret to Neji's demise, according to Gai.

Kyuubi Naruto is fast, but can he disappear across the stadium from his opponent, then reappear in front of them, and knock them 50 feet into the air with one kick, then proceed to go DBZ flying tennis with them? Even Kakashi was amazed by Lee opening the 5 gates, and called him a genius.

[Oldboy]

do you happen to know that when 2 person/objects is racing...

ex...a snail (Gaara) and a rabbit (Lee)....their speed difference would be so damn obvious where anyone can spot the difference.

but if 2 person is about of the same speed Neji, Kyuubi Naruto...you can hardly tell the difference of speed between them...

so how on earth do you know that Lee Ura Renge is faster and stronger than kyuubi naruto punch then?

both of them give them extreme boost in power and speed...so how do you exactly know which one is stronger?


Ura Renge is Lee only chance...i would emphasise...only chance of defeating Neji...so pitting only chance against many chances (neji taijutsu is far superior) ...you think Lee gonna have a decent chance of defeating Neji? right? only through Ura Renge.


In neji-naruto fight there was nothing in animation that indicated incredible speed or no one said anything about it. Doesn't this give u a clue, if not ok let me explain. When sasuke aquired lee's speed when fighting gaara, everyone was amazed saying that omg he is as fast as lee... But again in naruto neji fight there was no discussion about speed only it indicated that the amount of chakra at both of them was great. Ura renge is more powerful because it is said no human can survive that attack, yet we have seen complete berserk naruto punch Haku and haku survived. I hope i may be able to help you to figure out what is this about. :)

[Code]

Gaara Barely has any reaction time at all due to is reliance on his sand he countered the renge.... Twice .. Your Saying if after rock lee grabbed him Neji couldnt perform somekinda Aerial Kaiten or better yet Jyuuken a lee who is already literally dying from the pain
Gaara has very good reaction time with his jutsus.... and he's only countered the renge with the jutsus I think.

And OldBoy. Neji has shown incredible speed in that fight by easily countering all Kyuubi Naruto had to throw at him until he was lost in his taughts and caught off gaurd by Naruto barely having time to put up his kaiten. And if you read the manga, he's show very good speed against Kidomoru(the anime really animated everything aside from the filler move 128 hakke slower then they should have.) To the point of having Kidomoru stumbling back on the ground while Neji did the hakke... So you can't use the anime has a good judge of Neji's speed.

[Sato Lee]

The question is could neji gentle fist do anything agisnt gaara? I doubt he has enough power or speed to penarate through gaara's defensive wall.

[jemakai]

I have never seen Kyuubi Naruto move at such a speed, that the ground beneath him explodes.

And until I see that, Lee's speed in Ura Renge will always be superior.

What? Did you not see the Neji Naruto fight?
With Kyubii power the ground was exploding underneath him when he ran to Neji.

I agree with you though, I assume that Lee's Ura Renge is the fastest a genin has gone so far.

[jemakai]

The question is could neji gentle fist do anything agisnt gaara? I doubt he has enough power or speed to penarate through gaara's defensive wall.

If Neji ran in and did a kaiten at point blank range it would knock away the sand, the only problem after that is the armour of sand which may be to thick for jakken if Kiddomaru's web armour was to much. But Neji may find away around that...

[Vetrean]

for me, one of the questions in this is whether the release of the gates require chakra?
if not, then Neji is screwed. Also, all Lee has to do first is take off weights, then beat up on Neji while he has the speed boost, then if somehow Neji hits Lee's tenketsus(i'm assuming that gate release does not require chakra), He goes to a safe spot and releases the gates. I was sort of under the impression that opening the Heal Gate heals you, so all Tenketsu damage gone, proceeds to do Omote Renge or Ura Renge, I get em mixed up, the one he used when gates were released. Or, he could do Omote Renge(assuming that's the initial Lotus), then while Neji wa stunned, open the gates, use Ura Renge, then, if he still has the energy, strength, and healthiness to do it, pound Neji into a comatose state. True, the Omote Renge takes a lot out of you, but if the heal gate heals you, no worries

[SaiST]

for me, one of the questions in this is whether the release of the gates require chakra?
Chakra is used to force open the Gates, which then lets the chakra that was previously being blocked off to rush through the body.

Also, all Lee has to do first is take off weights, then beat up on Neji while he has the speed boost
The speed Lee aquires when he takes off his weights, and when he uses Omote Renge isn't enough to defeat Neji.

I was sort of under the impression that opening the Heal Gate heals you
Temporarily restores/raises stamina. Nothing was said about it actually healing damage, but I guess we can assume it does because of it's name.

[Capn Cracker]

Im leanin towards lee if he uses the gates

[hitokiritensai]

if lee as far as opens the fifth gate, i think all neji needs to do is to constantly put up the kaiten. I think he'll last longer putting up the kaiten than lee can last with the pain and the muscle strain

[Ghost-]

Fight would never reach the point where Lee would be able to use the Extreme Lotus, Neji has seen it and knows exactly how effective it is, thus he would get up on Lee and shut his chakra system down before he had the chance to do anything as quickly as possible.

Lee's good no doubt but he simply wouldn't last long enough to pull out his trump card, unfortunatly his weakness in nin/genjutsu gets the best of him here, he simply can't prevail agasint Neji because the Hyuga are the masters of close combat which is the only thing Lee is capable of if he had an effective long range game it would be different, but he doesn't.

[benstayton]

I think that if Neji landed one hit on Lee it would be all downhill from there. And I doubt that Lee would open 5 gates before he had been hit at all, considering the bodily damage it inflicts on the user. Kaiten would effectively stop Lee from getting close even without weights on.

Match: Neji

[jemakai]

if lee as far as opens the fifth gate, i think all neji needs to do is to constantly put up the kaiten. I think he'll last longer putting up the kaiten than lee can last with the pain and the muscle strain

If 5 gate Lee just stands still it wouldn't hurt him nearly as much as moving around and punching would. It would come down to who can out last each other longer, with Neji doing a constant kaiten and 5 gate Lee slowly riping his muscles. I say its a tie(as it will be in the future if they fight) because it works better for the story and both characters.

[tri-sapphire]

But this topic is on what would happen if they fought during the prelims. Neji hadn't perfected his Kaiten yet, as he was exhausted from Tenten's routine the first time they show him practicing afterwards.

[jemakai]

But this topic is on what would happen if they fought during the prelims. Neji hadn't perfected his Kaiten yet, as he was exhausted from Tenten's routine the first time they show him practicing afterwards.

Most of that is anime filler, it didn't happen in the manga. I for one think that he had kaiten during the prelims perfected, but couldn't do it as many times as he did against Naruto.

[hyuuga tae1]

I don't think you guys get it. Lee was fast enough to overcome Gaara's sand, but Gaara hardly had any training in taijutu. What do you think Neji is? He doesn't use ninjutsu, he's a taijutsu specialist, just like Lee. Just a different form. With his just under 360degree vision, he can see Lee wherever he is, however fast he is. He has a bloodline ability in HIS EYES for crying aloud. The Kaiten pretty much nullifies ALL taijutsu unless you have Kyuubi backed chakra behind it. Neji doesn't even need to hit Lee, he just has to block him and hit some chakra points. People are talking as if Neji had Chouji's speed, but to a guy with his kind of eyes and his kind of training, Lee level speed and taijutsu aren't enough. Now, if he opened 5+ gates thats a different story.

[JesusFreakDK]

I agree with Raikiri; a draw at best for Lee.

As hyuuga_tae1 mentioned above, Neji is a taijutsu specialist. Against Kidoumaru, a long-ranged fighter, using his Byakugan and strategy, he prevailed--even when he was clearly at a disadvantage. Again, Neji may not be as fast as weightless Lee, but nevertheless his Byakugan and Jyuuken abilities strengthen his physical capabilities considerably. Not only that, but he can utilize his chakra to deflect any attack. We won't have Lee homing in on Neji's blind spot; he may not even have to use Kaiten. Also, if Lee was to be hit by the 64 Palms, it would easily be the end.

We saw Lee's true power unleashed when he began opening gates. But remember Gai's warning as well as the result of his match with Gaara. If Lee was to pull the Ura Renge off, he'd have to finish Neji with it, because otherwise Lee would be far too weak and exhausted to do anything else. At that point Lee's health is in danger, and I doubt that Neji and Lee would be having a life-or-death match anyway.

My vote goes to Neji.

[ttapion]

Who do you think would win between neji and rock lee?

[Last of the Uchihas]

I like Rock Lee a lot, better yet, he became my favorite character during his fight with Gaara, but then i switch to Sasuke since he had gained Lee's combo, but Neji is a bad ass and his style is just as deadly as the Uchihas. I know Gai said that with the celestial gates was the way to defeat Neji, so he could defeat Neji, BUT Lee is a taijutsu user the same as Neji, and if Neji only touch him, he is pretty much fuck. In my opinion it can go either way, so i won't vote.

[Shishou]

Unless the technique Neji uses in NH2 for PS2 is real... And he busts all 8 gates...

Rock Lee will win. Ura Renge>Neji

Its as simple as that.

[UltimateVegetable]

Rock Lee, without a doubt. :smile-big

[hyuuga2004]

Neji, always. Rock Lee cannot hurt Neji

[Oldboy]

I say only Konoha senpuooaaaoaoaoaoaoao.
Gai" Its over neji, lee pwnd your ass... U just have to get over with it"
Neji"what.. wha .. wha...hakke..kaiten"
Gai"...LEEEE don't just use ura renge with 5 gates oepend... This is what happens when u do it. Neji must have hit his head very badly"
Lee"OOOOSSSUUU"

[enkay]

Rock Lee couldn't even beat Kimimaro. Neji wins.

[violetsky]

Now after Neji saw Rock Lee's greatest move he would win simply because he now knows what he is up against.

[Ghost-]

Heh, that qoute of "Rock Lee couldn't even beat Kimimaro. Neji wins."<--- hilarious. Gaara, the guy that pwned Lee without really even being hurt, would have died to Kimimaro, he said it himself. Just because he couldn't beat Kimimaro doesn't mean that he sucks.

Either way, I say Neji wins. He's too skilled/awesome, a single touch is all he'd need to fuck up Rock Lee's day, and I doubt Rock Lee is fast enough to dodge Neji at close range. Neji has the reaction speed + hand speed nessisary to own Rock Lee in hand-to-hand. Neji doesn't need to move his whole body in order to beat Rock Lee, just his hands, and as we've seen several times, Neji's hand speed is *the* shit.

[NinjaJedi007]

I doubt Rock Lee is fast enough to dodge Neji at close range.
if hes fast enough to penetrate gaara's sand (sand from gourd and armor of sand), then why would be not be able to hit neji? gaara, who has such an excellent automatic defense, took quite the beating. gaara probably would have been defeated had it not been for his gourd.

im going to tread on the lifegates a little. does anyone think its possible to see Lee moving at lifegate #3? byakugan is awesome but no one has seen the speed that Lee showed in his fight with gaara. even the Jounin teachers were amazed so that means Lee was on their level (in regards to speed) or very close. i dont think the 5th gate is necessary but opening it would pretty much guarantee a victory.

i dont think neji would be able to see Lee at maximum speed so kaiten would be kinda useless. sure neji could constantly use kaiten to protect himself, but he would waste too much chakra trying to just defend himself. taijutsu doesnt use as much chakra so Lee would have a little more stamina to keep attacking neji.

[ttapion]

i cant believe everyone likes neji... id like to see neji own gaara the way lee did.
there is no way gaara would have won if he didnt have that gourd.

[Nidaime-Sama]

Neji, reason the only way Lee actually stood a chance against him as stated by Gai was opening the 5 gates. However, now Neji knows he can do that move and would quickly shut him down before that. As many ninjas have said "the same jutsu won't work on me twice"

Even when Lee did bust out extreme lotus after that long power-up phase which would leave him open for attacks, Neji was following all of Lee's movements and knew exactally where he was.

Spoilers:

Gentlefist is stated as the best taijutsu in Leaf, so Gentlefist>Drunkenfist/Tekken

[Esponer]

I'm too unsure about this one, but I'd be disappointed if this happened and Neji won. In my mind, Lee should either win or they should beat each other (but not by Extreme Lotus - they should both be alive and well the day after). A normal double KO would be great for their character development.

I don't think Neji is as slow as some people seem to think, but that said, Lee's an extremely formidable taijutsu user and I'm not convinced that Neji is capable of keeping up with Lee for long... Neji uses too much chakra, that's my main problem with him.

I don't have a clue who would win, only who I'd want to win if one of them had to lose. I love both of their characters, and their fighting styles... at the very least, I'd need to have seen a fight even remotely like theirs would be (i.e. two skilled taijutsu specialists fighting), before I could begin to form an opinion on how a battle between the two would actually turn out.

[Gunshin]

I think Lee would win simply because he wouldn't underestimate Neji, and he'd use the gates right away. Gai said himself that if Lee uses the gates he can defeat Neji. Furthermore, Neji showed a look of discomfort when he saw Lee use the gates. It will take one good shot to the chin.

[smackmyface]

Lee (with Leg Weights) vs Neji - Neji will win...he will hit Lee tenketsus...Lee is doomed.

Lee (without Leg Weights) vs Neji - Lee is way too much faster for Neji to handle and Neji will open his Kaiten defense until Lee's attack is nullified and thus making Lee tired and when that happen Neji will say this "you are within the range of my Divination" and PAAAW!...Lee is doomed.

Lee (without Leg Weights) vs Neji - Lee is way too much faster for Neji to handle and before he use his Kaiten defense, Lee use his Shadow Dance and kick Neji up in the air and use his secondary/primary Lotus on Neji and PAAAW!...Neji is doomed

Lee (without Leg Weights) vs Neji - Lee is way too much faster for Neji to handle and Neji will open his Kaiten defense until Lee's attack is nullified and thus making Lee tired and before Neji can use his Divination attack, Lee open up his 5 Inner Gates, use his Shadow Dance and kick Neji up in the air and use his secondary/primary Lotus on Neji and PAAAW!...Neji is doomed

Lee (without Leg Weights) vs Neji - same as above except that Lee open all of his 8 Inner Gates!!! and use secondary/primary Lotus on Neji and PAAAW!....Both are dead meat. Neji died because of Lee's attack and Lee died from his own suicidal technique.

[Rurouni]

It's hard, but I'm going with Neji. Now that Neji knows what he's up against, he can do something about Lee's techniques.

[Shinobi Kiwi]

neji is genius and has !@#$'n freaky eyes which see everything, but that doesn't mean he has the speed to counter Lee's attacks. No one touched gaara and Lee did it, no one touched kimimaro and Lee did it. Only reason why Lee lost was because of bloodline barriers. Sure Neji can realse chakra from all pores on his body but that takes much more chakra than gaara or kimimaro's abilities. Lee all the way!

[Oldboy]

Damn too many spoilers i am outta here, i just wanted to say lee wins this, its is not much to do with the understimation thing coz neji got beaten bad by sound and he isn't such a smart ass now. Lee is just better than him, and more determined.

[Nidaime-Sama]

Clear something up Neji is not slow, he is stated to be the same speed as Sasuke at the end of the Chuunin Exam. Also Neji knows about Lee's moves and would instantly shut him down, as Gai said the only way he could even stand a chance against Neji was the 5 gates, meaning gate 1 does nothing or unweighted speed. So yes Neji DOES have the speed to counter Lee's attacks. Like he said to Sasuke, just because your eyes can see it, your body may be to slow to react to it and Neji has beaten him countless times and from the flashbacks it seems he did it easy.

[jemakai]

Clear something up Neji is not slow, he is stated to be the same speed as Sasuke at the end of the Chuunin Exam. Also Neji knows about Lee's moves and would instantly shut him down, as Gai said the only way he could even stand a chance against Neji was the 5 gates, meaning gate 1 does nothing or unweighted speed. So yes Neji DOES have the speed to counter Lee's attacks. Like he said to Sasuke, just because your eyes can see it, your body may be to slow to react to it and Neji has beaten him countless times and from the flashbacks it seems he did it easy.

Geez you act like Lee doesn't learn from the past. Lee himself knows that Neji knows he can open 5 gates, and to be fair lets allow Lee to know about Hakke and Kaiten. Both fighters know they have to take out each other quickly, which means either the fight will be very short or take very long. If they fight in the future kisi will allow a double KO like Esponer said because that is better for character development of both of them. Lee will have Neji's respect while Neji will not have been moved down a slot in the strenght list below Lee. All the fans are happy!

[HimuraBattousai]

I love Rock Lee and I also love Neji. But I'd have to give this fight to Neji because:

1) Speed definitely helps in a fight. But think about how it helped against Gaara. He attacked from all sides (kept catching Gaara's blind side). Getting behind Neji is pointless due to Byaakugan. So some of the advantage of speed is nullified.

2) Neji has defeated Rock Lee in the past over and over, no matter how many times he challenged him. Also, Neji seemed completely unimpressed by Rock Lee's speed without the weights. I don't think it was a problem for him in the past.

3) It is unknown whether or not Neji had Kaiten during the chuunin prelims or not. But I would gamble that Rock Lee has yet to fight against it before.

4) Rock Lee's advantage is also his main disadvantage: Neji has seen it before. All the geniuses who has seen an enemy's move in the past finds a way to counter it. (Kakashi for example, completely molded Sasuke to be able to battle Gaara. Sasuke, understanding Yoroi's abilities, figured out how to beat him quickly. Hakku as well. Also, Neji figured out how to defeat Kidoumaru).

5) Intelligence: Neji has Rock Lee completely beat out here.

Just too many factors on Neji's side.

[jemakai]

4) Rock Lee's advantage is also his main disadvantage: Neji has seen it before. All the geniuses who has seen an enemy's move in the past finds a way to counter it. (Kakashi for example, completely molded Sasuke to be able to battle Gaara. Sasuke, understanding Yoroi's abilities, figured out how to beat him quickly. Hakku as well. Also, Neji figured out how to defeat Kidoumaru).


This is unfair to Lee. If they are going to fight then allow both to know about each others techs, otherwise its just a fight of who got the best news on the other before the fight. If Neji doesn't know about Ura renge, Lee wins; If Lee doesn't know about Hakke, Neji wins. Give them both knowledge and it will be a better fight.

[Mizura]

Personally I think that if Lee is to beat Neji, his trump card would not be opening the 5 gates + Ura Renge, but *spoilers* Drunken Fist. ie unpredictable. It's not a guaranteed win, but somehow, since Neji has already seen the Ura Renge, plus he has 359 degrees vision, so I think it's hard for Lee to surprise him in any way. Even if Lee is faster, Neji might still be able to anticipate in time, especially once Lee is in his Hakke field. But that's just me. Also, Lee stood a good chance to equal Neji before, by training several times as hard as Neji. But *spoilers*it appears that Neji is now going to train very hard as well, so Neji is not only a genius, he's a hard working genius. Lee might be able to equal him one day, but where surpassing Neji is concerned... nah. Lazy genius < hardworking loser < hardworking genius.

[Nidaime-Sama]

Geez you act like Lee doesn't learn from the past. Lee himself knows that Neji knows he can open 5 gates, and to be fair lets allow Lee to know about Hakke and Kaiten. Both fighters know they have to take out each other quickly, which means either the fight will be very short or take very long. If they fight in the future kisi will allow a double KO like Esponer said because that is better for character development of both of them. Lee will have Neji's respect while Neji will not have been moved down a slot in the strenght list below Lee. All the fans are happy!

He hasn't, every single battle he goes head-strong in and doesn't actually plan a attack out. What the heck can he do? His 5 gate power-boost takes awhile to power up so it's not like him knowing that Neji knows will make a difference. The only way as Gai said to beat Neji was the 5 gates, that includes drunken fist and his speed in gate 1. Also Neji respects Lee now, he is not an ass now and even the anime filler where Shika and his team approached him he was kind and respectful to Lee.

As stated, gentlefist is the best taijutsu in Leaf: gentlefist> Drunkenfist/Tekken

Drunkenfist doesn't matter if it is unpredictable, it can still be countered as Kimi showed. Also when he is in his mode it does not last long, no way long enough to do serious damage if he did get lucky with it.

[Gunshin]

Neji has shown himself not to be a offensive fighter. He usualy stays stationary and allows his opponent to come into his range. All Lee has to do is go far away and open the gates or just out of Neji's range. Lee vs Naruto... he let him do Kage Bushin (Kiba didn't) and let him power up Kyuubi. Neji is primarily a defensive fighter. One more thing... how do we know the power-up was slow? The anime? If thats the case, Neji looks extremely slow in the anime in opposition to Lee looking very fast. Unless opening the gates is stated as being slow, i'm not buying it.

[Nidaime-Sama]

Neji has shown himself not to be a offensive fighter. He usualy stays stationary and allows his opponent to come into his range. All Lee has to do is go far away and open the gates or just out of Neji's range. Lee vs Naruto... he let him do Kage Bushin (Kiba didn't) and let him power up Kyuubi. Neji is primarily a defensive fighter. One more thing... how do we know the power-up was slow? The anime? If thats the case, Neji looks extremely slow in the anime in opposition to Lee looking very fast. Unless opening the gates is stated as being slow, i'm not buying it.

He can switch from offensive to defensive as shown he went for the Naruto clone he believed to be the real Naruto and he went on the offence trying to take Kidoumaru out with 64 hands of hakke. Lee cannot keep the gates open long, and there is no where to hide with Neji's eyes and Lee's speed to begin with does not dwarf Neji's speed. Also I don't follow the anime, manga he did the Goku charge up as well, stood and charge while everyone watched.

[ttapion]

i have to agree with gunshin neji looks like a snail compared to lee just because neji can see everything doesnt mean lee wont be able to hit him....i dont think lee would even need the gates to whip him anyways.....weights off and secondary lotus would waste him ^_^

[Gunshin]

He can switch from offensive to defensive as shown he went for the Naruto clone he believed to be the real Naruto and he went on the offence trying to take Kidoumaru out with 64 hands of hakke. Lee cannot keep the gates open long, and there is no where to hide with Neji's eyes and Lee's speed to begin with does not dwarf Neji's speed. Also I don't follow the anime, manga he did the Goku charge up as well, stood and charge while everyone watched.
I don't think Lee needs to keep the gates open long. Neji isn't really a tank like Naruto or Gaara. The big reason why I think Lee can take Neji is because i'm sure Gai-sensei knows his students and the power of their techniques. When Lee opens the gates, Neji won't have the stamina to withstand the ping pong attack Lee did to Gaara. So unless Neji develops some golden silk armor, or sand armor, i'm confident he won't survive the gates.

[Nidaime-Sama]

i have to agree with gunshin neji looks like a snail compared to lee just because neji can see everything doesnt mean lee wont be able to hit him....i dont think lee would even need the gates to whip him anyways.....weights off and secondary lotus would waste him ^_^

Bias aside, Gai himself said the ONLY thing that could beat Neji is opening the 5 gates! the second gate is just the life gate it does not do much. Neji is stated to be the same speed as Sasuke, so is he a snail?

I don't think Lee needs to keep the gates open long. Neji isn't really a tank like Naruto or Gaara. The big reason why I think Lee can take Neji is because i'm sure Gai-sensei knows his students and the power of their techniques. When Lee opens the gates, Neji won't have the stamina to withstand the ping pong attack Lee did to Gaara. So unless Neji develops some golden silk armor, or sand armor, i'm confident he won't survive the gates.

Yes he is, he has a better absolute defence than Gaara. Kishi has been hyping Neji a great deal while Lee has been left to float. Yeah Gai said opening the 5 gates is a taijutsu that can't be touched, however, Neji can send out his chakra instantly *he doesn't need to spin* and doesn't need to touch him. Also Neji as stated by Hizashi has learned those moves on his own and from the manga it shows he likes to train with himself or Tenten. Neji won't even let him open the gates and Neji has a huge stamina source as stated to be the same as Sasuke and they are close to Lee's. It's not Neji that needs a sand armour or grow metal webs it's Lee. He has no defence against Neji's attacks, all Neji needs is one hit to take him out.

[Saskue_Naruto]

Personally i think that neji would be able to beat lee. now that he's seen the opening five gates thing i'm sure that he'll be more aware of what will happen. i mean if he sees lee all red and his overflowing chakra then i think that he would start the kaiten or something. along with his 100 something hit combo which he could do before lee even gets a chance to open his gates. bc with neji's combo lee won't be able to open the gates.

[ttapion]

i didnt say he was a snail.....lol i said he was a snail COMPARED to lee......the way it looks in the anime lee looks about 3-4 times as fast as sasuke

[Nidaime-Sama]

i didnt say he was a snail.....lol i said he was a snail COMPARED to lee......the way it looks in the anime lee looks about 3-4 times as fast as sasuke

Anime made Neji very slow, just look at how slow 64 hands of hakke was when he used it against Kidoumaru. Then you look at it in the manga, and wow that's fast.

[ttapion]

well lee is my fav char so i really want him to win lol ^_^ but it seems that everyone likes neji..... :mad

[Nidaime-Sama]

well lee is my fav char so i really want him to win lol ^_^ but it seems that everyone likes neji..... :mad

Don't worry Lee will eventually become very strong, his character is based off of Bruce Lee who suffered a spinal injury and came back and created his own style of martial arts and owned everyone. However, if Lee wants to stand a chance he has to learn more than just taijutsu which Neji is king at.

[Neji/Tiger]

Im going to have to go with Neji on this one. Not because he is my favorite character but considering the fact people think Neji is a snail...you can see Nejis speed in the 128 Hakke, it even impressed Kidoumaru. Gentlefist is the strongest taijutsu in Kohana and Lee needs to realize this. Even with Lees speed he will need more than 1,2 hits to actully damage Neji, while Neji only needs 1 blow to take out Lee. Only way I actully see Lee tieing, or dieing is by using the 5 gates. I'm not putting down Lee in anyway, im just saying his taijutsu isnt as advanced as Nejis.

[ttapion]

well..i say that neji has a stronger style...i think everyone knows that but can it really match up to his speed? btw neji is not a snail but lee is alot faster but he does look alot faster in the anime compared to the manga

[Nidaime-Sama]

well..i say that neji has a stronger style...i think everyone knows that but can it really match up to his speed? btw neji is not a snail but lee is alot faster but he does look alot faster in the anime compared to the manga

Yes he can match his speed that was stated and shown. When he took off his weights the only one not impressed was Neji. Gai said the only way Lee could beat Neji was the 5 gates, so Lee has tried to beat Neji with 1 gate and lost. Sasuke and Neji speed is 3/5 and Lee's is 4/5. He does not dwarf Neji in speed

Hell as Lee said, even if you can see the attack your body maybe to slow to react fast enough, however, Neji has beaten Lee countless times meaning he is fast enough to beat Lee as shown and stated. Then there is the speed burst with his techniques of 64 and 128 so even that gives him an extra advantage

Edit: Even Lee was unsure that extreme lotus would beat Neji and when he did it Neji was shocked that was Lee. However, he was the only genin actually still able to follow all of his movements and after it was over he was ever confident as always, so he knows he can beat Lee's new technique.

[Sol 3dge]

The power of hard work can overcome ANYTHING. Lee will beat Neji.

[Nidaime-Sama]

The power of hard work can overcome ANYTHING. Lee will beat Neji.

Yep that's why he hasn't really beaten anyone at all.....go Lee! :huh Also why do people think Neji isn't a hardworker? What do wee see Neji do all the time? train!

[Shishou]

I got negative rep for saying Ura Renge, enough said >.>

Kyuubi Naruto charging with a kunai, beat Neji's Kunai Kaiten.

Rock Lee with 4 gates opened, made the ground explode when he moved. Kyuubi Naruto's speed did not, thus the speed and power of the charge was inferior.


Neji's kaiten would have been defeated by the force of 4 gates Lee running at him, and Neji doesn't have anything to cushion the 5th gate hit.




Ura Renge is one of the strongest attacks we have seen. How many other ninjas have run so fast that the ground explodes?




So whomever the Neji lover is, who gave me bad rep for only saying Ura Renge. Suck my hairy balls.

[Nidaime-Sama]

I got negative rep for saying Ura Renge, enough said >.>

Kyuubi Naruto charging with a kunai, beat Neji's Kunai Kaiten.

Rock Lee with 4 gates opened, made the ground explode when he moved. Kyuubi Naruto's speed did not, thus the speed and power of the charge was inferior.

Neji's kaiten would have been defeated by the force of 4 gates Lee running at him, and Neji doesn't have anything to cushion the 5th gate hit.

Ura Renge is one of the strongest attacks we have seen. How many other ninjas have run so fast that the ground explodes?

So whomever the Neji lover is, who gave me bad rep for only saying Ura Renge. Suck my hairy balls.

Wasn't from me

Anime filler, never happened in the manga. In the manga, Neji didn't get a full kaiten off so we don't know what would have happened against a full kaiten with kyuubi charged Naruto.

Once again, once Neji sends chakra out it protects him. It doesn't matter how hard Lee hits the chakra expelled protects Neji. Also yes he can do it for a long time since we have seen him do so.

No it's not, its strong but far from unbeatable. Would Neji even let him open the 5 gates? very doubtful

and Extreme Lotus is a double-bladed sword so at the most he can only hope for a tie since afterwards he will be a cripple.

[Kage_Kama]

Rock Lee, no contest. Neji may have been better than Lee at first, but Lee is much faster and stronger than Neji. One punch and Neji's skull would probably get crushed in. And if Lee used the Initial Lotus technique, Neji would pretty much die. And if Lee opened all his chakra gates.............bye-bye, Neji.

[Gunshin]

Can you point out where in the manga it says Neji can pour chakra out of his skin to protect himself? I don't remember anything being said about Neji being able to pour chakra out from his skin to protect himself. Please mention this chakra armor.

About the Ura Renge, it doesn't cripple you. The reason Lee was crippled was because of Gaara's attack.

[Nidaime-Sama]

Rock Lee, no contest. Neji may have been better than Lee at first, but Lee is much faster and stronger than Neji. One punch and Neji's skull would probably get crushed in. And if Lee used the Initial Lotus technique, Neji would pretty much die. And if Lee opened all his chakra gates.............bye-bye, Neji.

Oh geez...I suggest you actually read the posts here before you make comments like that. Like I shake my head at comments like that

Can you point out where in the manga it says Neji can pour chakra out of his skin to protect himself? I don't remember anything being said about Neji being able to pour chakra out from his skin to protect himself. Please mention this chakra armor.

About the Ura Renge, it doesn't cripple you. The reason Lee was crippled was because of Gaara's attack.

ch.101, pg.7 and shows it covers it body *chakra armour* and then he spins
"...right before the attack lands, he releases a large amount of chakra from chakra openings throughout his body, this stops the enemies attack. He then spins his body like a top and blasts them away"

No Gaara's attack destroyed Lee's arms and legs, his spinal damage was from the gates.

[Gunshin]

Oh geez...I suggest you actually read the posts here before you make comments like that. Like I shake my head at comments like that



ch.101, pg.7 and shows it covers it body *chakra armour* and then he spins
"...right before the attack lands, he releases a large amount of chakra from chakra openings throughout his body, this stops the enemies attack. He then spins his body like a top and blasts them away"

No Gaara's attack destroyed Lee's arms and legs, his spinal damage was from the gates.
See, but he has to spin. He has to release the chakra, otherwise it'd be wiser for him to charge in using Chakra armor and sealing the opponents chakra gates. It never states that he can create chakra armor. You're assuming he doesn't have to spin for it to work.

The spinal damage wasn't the problem for Lee. He was able to recover from that. The reason why he couldn't become a ninja anymore was because the damage Gaara did to his left hand and leg.

[Nidaime-Sama]

See, but he has to spin. He has to release the chakra, otherwise it'd be wiser for him to charge in using Chakra armor and sealing the opponents chakra gates. It never states that he can create chakra armor. You're assuming he doesn't have to spin for it to work.

The spinal damage wasn't the problem for Lee. He was able to recover from that. The reason why he couldn't become a ninja anymore was because the damage Gaara did to his left hand and leg.

Did you read the page? he expells the chakra and it creates a chakra armour which protects him and stops the attack. Now if he wants to send them flying he can spin to delfect them and yes you can spin in the air. Look at the picture on the chapter page, it's the chakra barrier which blocks chakra/physical attacks, the spinning part is what deflects the attack away.

Here, the pic is small but it shows that Neji creates his barrier that stops the attack and then spins to deflect it away
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter101.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=989

Incorrect, "there are numerous bone fragments lodged within vitalparts of your neural network". His arms and legs were fine it was his spine that everyone was worried about

[Gunshin]

Did you read the page? he expells the chakra and it creates a chakra armour which protects him and stops the attack. Now if he wants to send them flying he can spin to delfect them and yes you can spin in the air. Look at the picture on the chapter page, it's the chakra barrier which blocks chakra/physical attacks, the spinning part is what deflects the attack away.

Here, the pic is small but it shows that Neji creates his barrier that stops the attack and then spins to deflect it away
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter101.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=989

Incorrect, "there are numerous bone fragments lodged within vitalparts of your neural network". His arms and legs were fine it was his spine that everyone was worried about
With Neji, you're right about the chakra. I just remembered it in his fight with the sound 4. However---- how much can that hold back? Can he activate it when he's being hit in the air? It doesn't appear to be an instantanious move like Gaaras sand. Also, a regular attack from Kyuubi Naruto broke his defense.

Please send me a raw about Lee's damage. I only have the Naruto Anime where the doctor says the exact opposite of what you say the manga says. The doctor says he can heal from the damage done to himself, however, its the damage in his left arm and left leg that is too severe. This is supported by all the scenes we see of Lee always having crutches and etc..

[Nidaime-Sama]

With Neji, you're right about the chakra. I just remembered it in his fight with the sound 4. However---- how much can that hold back? Can he activate it when he's being hit in the air? It doesn't appear to be an instantanious move like Gaaras sand.

Please send me a raw about Lee's damage. I only have the Naruto Anime where the doctor says the exact opposite of what you say the manga says. The doctor says he can heal from the damage done to himself, however, its the damage in his left arm and left leg that is too severe. This is supported by all the scenes we see of Lee always having crutches and etc..

Well Hizashi's kaiten knocked away 20+ chuunin/jounins and Neji's could block shadow clones/kunai/web weapons so it's very strong. Nothing has broken through it yet. Yeah, he can do it in the air since the defence is not external but internal. He doesn't need to be on the ground to expell it and his chakra expell is instant actually faster than Gaara's sand.

I don't have the raw, but I have a translated version. Tsuande was focusing on his spine she didn't even bother looking at his arm/leg. When she did make that comment we see a pic of Lee's spine with chips in it. She just didn't want to risk the operation with his arm/leg because she still had to worry about his spine and it was very risky. However, the main problem was for a fact his spine
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter173.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1162

i don't remember if this was in the anime, but it's a funny scene with Lee
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter173.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1166

[HimuraBattousai]

So whomever the Neji lover is, who gave me bad rep for only saying Ura Renge. Suck my hairy balls.

Neji has seen Ura Renge before. Which genius in the show has been unable to defeat a move they have seen before? Actually, in any anime or manga?

Ultimate techniques are best when kept secret. Once the secret is out, so is the advantage. It has been done in anime time and time again. Saitoh's Gatotsu. Kenshin's succession technique (long name forgot how to spell). Pokemon. You name it.


Neji's Kaiten was started late against Kyuubi Naruto, thus the penetration. And Naruto didn't beat it anyways. They were both equally wounded afterwards. Naruto just thought ahead after getting hit.

And about Neji being defensive, I think that is a load of crap. He does that to make his opponent feel feeble and useless. He likes seeing his opponent's moves, understanding, and then defeating it. But we all know he can attack very well if he feels like it. (Naruto got his chakra sealed within the first few second of Neji going on the offensive. Seconds!)

[Shishou]

Wasn't from me

Anime filler, never happened in the manga. In the manga, Neji didn't get a full kaiten off so we don't know what would have happened against a full kaiten with kyuubi charged Naruto.

Once again, once Neji sends chakra out it protects him. It doesn't matter how hard Lee hits the chakra expelled protects Neji. Also yes he can do it for a long time since we have seen him do so.

No it's not, its strong but far from unbeatable. Would Neji even let him open the 5 gates? very doubtful

and Extreme Lotus is a double-bladed sword so at the most he can only hope for a tie since afterwards he will be a cripple.


Ura Renge was Rock Lee's trumph card to beating Neji. The whole reason behind learning it, was so he could defeat his rival. That means Gai and Lee had to be fairly confident that Ura Renge could take down Neji.

And they know what Neji can do, being teammate/sensei of him. Kaiten is strong, but not nearly as invincible as people may believe.


And of course Neji would let him open the gates. Opponents almost ALWAYS let their opponent power up. Its juss the way things work, to make things interesting. Rock Lee could do keep away as well while opening them if he needed. Seeing as how his RUNNING speed is superior to Neji's.


And even if Neji's Kaiten by chance, could deflect a charging 4 gated Lee... I bet Lee could hold out longer and wait until Neji has to stop spinning. Either from lack of chakra, or lack of spin.


Even Neji showed signs of amazement/worry when he saw Ura Renge. I don't believe Neji's Kaiten would be strong enough to stop Ura Renge, because the sheer force of it, would break any Chakra barrier. And Rock Lee is also knowledgeable to what Neji is capable of, and probably how well his Kaiten works. Gai found ways to fight the Sharingan and it's abilities, so I'm sure Lee found ways to fight the Byakugan and it's abilities.

Neji is awesome, don't get me wrong. And without Ura Renge, I'm sure Neji would be able to take down Rock Lee. But with Ura Renge, and Neji can't win. And even if it is a double edged sword, Rock Lee would be able to move alot more than Neji who had juss got hit with it, without sand armor, or tons of sand to cushion his fall.

[Nidaime-Sama]

Ura Renge was Rock Lee's trumph card to beating Neji. The whole reason behind learning it, was so he could defeat his rival. That means Gai and Lee had to be fairly confident that Ura Renge could take down Neji.


Yeah if he was using it for the first time against Neji, yes it would have beat him. However, now he has seen the attack and stated by many "the same jutsu won't work on me twice".


And they know what Neji can do, being teammate/sensei of him. Kaiten is strong, but not nearly as invincible as people may believe.


Not ture, Lee and Gai held stuff from Neji and knows likes to train by himself so that doesn't mean they would know all of Neji's secrets. Even they commented extreme lotus can't be touched, however, the principles of kaiten he doesn't have to touch him to block the attack


And of course Neji would let him open the gates. Opponents almost ALWAYS let their opponent power up. Its juss the way things work, to make things interesting. Rock Lee could do keep away as well while opening them if he needed. Seeing as how his RUNNING speed is superior to Neji's.


He is a genius and if your going to be possibly fatally injuired from an attack, no he doesn't have to wait for them to power-up. We don't even know if charged Lee can break through the chakra barrier. Logic says no. Lee's running speed is not much faster than Neji, he had to use the 5 gates to even stand a chance.


And even if Neji's Kaiten by chance, could deflect a charging 4 gated Lee... I bet Lee could hold out longer and wait until Neji has to stop spinning. Either from lack of chakra, or lack of spin.


Yes the principles of the chakra armour is that it protects the user and spinning like a top sends them away. So it doesn't matter how hard Lee punches Neji would be protected and he didn't create a chakra barrier in the manga to collide with Neji so he wouldn't have a huge kick-up. Neji doesn't have to spin to make the barrier and if he does spin Lee would be running into a brick wall damaging him even more. Neji has lasted alot longer with his chakra (As shown in the Kidou fight) than Lee lasted with extreme lotus.


Even Neji showed signs of amazement/worry when he saw Ura Renge. I don't believe Neji's Kaiten would be strong enough to stop Ura Renge, because the sheer force of it, would break any Chakra barrier. And Rock Lee is also knowledgeable to what Neji is capable of, and probably how well his Kaiten works. Gai found ways to fight the Sharingan and it's abilities, so I'm sure Lee found ways to fight the Byakugan and it's abilities.


Yes he was shocked, but right after seeing it he was confident and cocky once again, so one can easily assume he knows how to beat it. Even Lee who had the extreme lotus still was unsure it would be enough to put Neji away. We have never seen anything break through his chakra barrier and a simple punch wouldn't do that. Yeah Lee knows the white eyes but that doesn't mean much since he has never beaten him ever before.


Neji is awesome, don't get me wrong. And without Ura Renge, I'm sure Neji would be able to take down Rock Lee. But with Ura Renge, and Neji can't win. And even if it is a double edged sword, Rock Lee would be able to move alot more than Neji who had juss got hit with it, without sand armor, or tons of sand to cushion his fall.

It's for sure without extreme lotus, Neji would easily take Lee down. Neji has a chakra armour, it's instant and even uses less chakra than Gaara's sand armour, he's fine in that regard. Lee cannot win, if he does somehow get lucky it would be a draw since he would be unable to fight afterwards.

[Muk]

Blah instead of using the gates and urarenge, why not use drunken boxing :)

it'll pwn the hell out of neji. and i voted for lee :)

[Nidaime-Sama]

Blah instead of using the gates and urarenge, why not use drunken boxing :)

it'll pwn the hell out of neji. and i voted for lee :)

As stated the best taijutsu in Leaf is gentlefist, that includes drunkenfist. Also it does not even last long or had enough punch to tko anyone.

[HimuraBattousai]

Nidaime keeps getting to everyone first :(

Rep :)

[Neji/Tiger]

[QUOTE]Blah instead of using the gates and urarenge, why not use drunken boxing

it'll pwn the hell out of neji. and i voted for lee[QUOTE]



Well, drunkenfist isnt anywhere near what the gentlefist is. Gentlefist IS the strongest taijutsu in kohana. Sure, Lee's style is good and can damage quickly but Gentlefist has always been a 1-2 hit K.O.

[Neji/Tiger]

Blah instead of using the gates and urarenge, why not use drunken boxing

it'll pwn the hell out of neji. and i voted for lee



Well, drunkenfist isnt anywhere near what the gentlefist is. Gentlefist IS the strongest taijutsu in kohana. Sure, Lee's style is good and can damage quickly but Gentlefist has always been a 1-2 hit K.O.[/QUOTE]

[Shishou]

Drunken Boxing is a confusing style to fight against. But the Byakugan would make quick work of it.

As for Ura Renge not working, because Neji has seen it... I don't feel that would work with Ura Renge. Seeing as how Ura Renge can most likely be changed in ways, but the concept is still the same. The main thing making Ura Renge strong, isn't the combo or anything, but simply the sheer power of Gated Lee. A jutsu is pretty much the same, anytime it is used. But opening the gates, lets Lee do anything he would normally do, but with tons more speed and power. If Ura Renge's concept is the same as Omote Renge, the whole concept is to "drop" to opponent at a high speed into the ground. Which means, up to the final hit of Ura Renge (well, the bandage retracting and final hit), his combo can change anyway he wants. I don't even think the bounce Gaara around would have happened, if not for his armor of sand on his skin.

Don't doubt the power of Ura Renge... I'm sure Lee would figure out some way to get past the kaiten... Perhaps going underground and attacking Neji from underneath his Kaiten?

[Nidaime-Sama]

Drunken Boxing is a confusing style to fight against. But the Byakugan would make quick work of it.

As for Ura Renge not working, because Neji has seen it... I don't feel that would work with Ura Renge. Seeing as how Ura Renge can most likely be changed in ways, but the concept is still the same. The main thing making Ura Renge strong, isn't the combo or anything, but simply the sheer power of Gated Lee. A jutsu is pretty much the same, anytime it is used. But opening the gates, lets Lee do anything he would normally do, but with tons more speed and power. If Ura Renge's concept is the same as Omote Renge, the whole concept is to "drop" to opponent at a high speed into the ground. Which means, up to the final hit of Ura Renge (well, the bandage retracting and final hit), his combo can change anyway he wants. I don't even think the bounce Gaara around would have happened, if not for his armor of sand on his skin.

Don't doubt the power of Ura Renge... I'm sure Lee would figure out some way to get past the kaiten... Perhaps going underground and attacking Neji from underneath his Kaiten?

Incorrect, the whole point of extreme lotus is the combo that's what extreme lotus is. "Extreme Lotus is a continous high-speed taijutsu that can't even be touched. The answer to defeating Neji is this high speed combo"

Lee doesn't have that sort of power and we don't know if Neji can see under the ground since he shut his eyes off when Naruto dug.

[Shishou]

A combo is any combination of 2 hits or more. So even a normal Omote renge is a combo, since it has a kick to knock them up, then the spin into the ground. Well, thats if you consider the spin to the ground a combo hit.

But for Ura Renge, he hits them and brings them back with ribbon to do the final hit. That alone is a powerful 2 hit combo. Getting Neji into the position for that 2 hit combo, can be done anyway Rock Lee chooses.

[rikku]

although i feel i've betrayed lee...but....neji all the way!! he's a tensai! :)

[Nidaime-Sama]

A combo is any combination of 2 hits or more. So even a normal Omote renge is a combo, since it has a kick to knock them up, then the spin into the ground. Well, thats if you consider the spin to the ground a combo hit.

But for Ura Renge, he hits them and brings them back with ribbon to do the final hit. That alone is a powerful 2 hit combo. Getting Neji into the position for that 2 hit combo, can be done anyway Rock Lee chooses.

The kick to knock them out in initial lotus and shadow leaf dance are different moves. The actually spinning in the groud and the gates are what Initial Lotus is.

The thing is Neji should be able to cut the ribbion with his chakra control and be able to escape it. Neji has an absolute defence so it would be exacatally like Gaara getting hit by Lee, but Neji would be better protected.

[FireEel]

I am always thinking about this....

When Rock Lee does his four gates move, and tries to kick Neji about, Neji would probably activate Kaiten and bounces about while Rock Lee continues to beat him about until he finally stops, and Neji is still unharmed.

Or when Rock Lee is trying to do his lotus or other attacks, all Neji has to do is to use Kaiten and render Rock Lee's melee attacks useless.

[Shishou]

The kick to knock them out in initial lotus and shadow leaf dance are different moves. The actually spinning in the groud and the gates are what Initial Lotus is.

The thing is Neji should be able to cut the ribbion with his chakra control and be able to escape it. Neji has an absolute defence so it would be exacatally like Gaara getting hit by Lee, but Neji would be better protected.

The only reason Neji could cut the Webs, was because he cut the chakra in the webs, with Jyuuken. There has been in indication that he could cut something with his chakra, that isn't fueled by chakra.

And I don't see how Neji getting hit can be compared to Gaara... Gaara's armor of sand is on his body. Neji has nothing that would block any damage when hit. And Gaara made it out of Omote Renge by replacing himself with a sand bunshin. Neji wouldn't be able to do such a thing, as nothing he can use can be brought up into the air, like Gaara's sand can be. As for Ura Renge, it was reduced bigtime, because the sand cushioned his fall. Hit something into a huge pillow, let alone something that can be controlled like a Shock, to reduce the friction of Gaara and the ground... Ya, thats going to nerf whatever Ura Renge's hit to the ground does. But Neji doesn't have anything to cushion his fall. If Ura Renge gets him, he is screwed.



And there is also no indication that Neji can do Kaiten off the ground. Unless I am missing something. (To whomever stated he could do a kaiten while being hit in the air) Also, if a slower, less forceful Kyuubi Naruto can cancel a starting Kaiten... Why wouldn't Rock Lee juss wait for Neji to start? He moves at such a speed that he could hit Neji as he starts it, and with that much power would totally cancel it and still hit. Do you really think Neji can juss kaiten forever? I don't even think its a matter of Chakra on how long he can spin, but his takeoff and body movements. People act like Neji will Kaiten forever and Rock Lee will be stopped by it... Well 4 gates speed is enough to make the ground explode, and if Kyuubi Naruto can manage to get to Neji when he first starts Kaiten, why couldn't Rock Lee do the same, if not better?

[Nidaime-Sama]

The only reason Neji could cut the Webs, was because he cut the chakra in the webs, with Jyuuken. There has been in indication that he could cut something with his chakra, that isn't fueled by chakra.

And I don't see how Neji getting hit can be compared to Gaara... Gaara's armor of sand is on his body. Neji has nothing that would block any damage when hit. And Gaara made it out of Omote Renge by replacing himself with a sand bunshin. Neji wouldn't be able to do such a thing, as nothing he can use can be brought up into the air, like Gaara's sand can be. As for Ura Renge, it was reduced bigtime, because the sand cushioned his fall. Hit something into a huge pillow, let alone something that can be controlled like a Shock, to reduce the friction of Gaara and the ground... Ya, thats going to nerf whatever Ura Renge's hit to the ground does. But Neji doesn't have anything to cushion his fall. If Ura Renge gets him, he is screwed.


And there is also no indication that Neji can do Kaiten off the ground. Unless I am missing something. (To whomever stated he could do a kaiten while being hit in the air) Also, if a slower, less forceful Kyuubi Naruto can cancel a starting Kaiten... Why wouldn't Rock Lee juss wait for Neji to start? He moves at such a speed that he could hit Neji as he starts it, and with that much power would totally cancel it and still hit. Do you really think Neji can juss kaiten forever? I don't even think its a matter of Chakra on how long he can spin, but his takeoff and body movements. People act like Neji will Kaiten forever and Rock Lee will be stopped by it... Well 4 gates speed is enough to make the ground explode, and if Kyuubi Naruto can manage to get to Neji when he first starts Kaiten, why couldn't Rock Lee do the same, if not better?

If he expells the chakra from his body he could possibly cut the straps, if expelling chakra can create a crater and spinning makes it larger than a bandage would not hold much defence.

What? Neji's defence is better than Gaara's. When he shoots out the chakra from his body nothing is going to hurt him, the spin is what deflects the weapon/person away. Ummm....Gai stated all Lee can do to beat Neji is opening the 5 gates, meaning Initial Lotus is not enough to beat Neji which is stated. Even Lee was unsure that opening the gates would beat Neji. Even after watching Lee charge up, Lee was confident once again showing he could beat it. WHat do you think his chakra armour does? protect him from physical/chakra attacks. Not true if he took no damage he would be fine with the impact because he could land on his feet or do something else. Neji is the number #1 rookie, meaning he has to excell in nin and genjutsu, he doesn't just have gentlefist.

I stated it and yes he can, he expells chakra from his points he doesn't need to be on the ground. Why would he need to be? it's from him, not from the ground like Gaara's sand. How do you know if Kyuubi charged Naruto is much slower than Lee? Naruto cancelled out a non-fully spinning Kaiten because it was two chakra walls colliding into each other, look at the manga page. Neji was still able to follow Lee's movements in extreme lotus, and Lee attacks in mid-air you can't change direction in mid-air so he would be running face first into a chakra wall. No he can't do it forever, but he can do it long enough for Lee to be crippled which is not that long to do. Kyuubi charged Naruto made the ground explode as well, and prior to the collide Neji and Naruto were battling on even ground. Neji wouldn't even let Lee open the gates, every single one of his matches he has gone for the quick kill, he does not delay the match only when he believes he has won *talking*.

[Shishou]

Well the thing is, no one knows if Neji has the instant kill techniques. And if Rock Lee is hit by 64 palms, I'll bet money that he could still open the gates. Because once the gates are forced open, the chakra flow will restore I bet.

And again, we can only assume he can do Kaiten in the air... Since Kaiten consists of such a high spin, he may not be able to pull that speed for it to be effective in the air.

As for the Chakra armor, it is still chakra, and can still be broken through. Kidoumaru taught us this if anything. Even if Neji forces all his chakra into a single area, the best it will do against something of great force, is slightly move whatever it is. Because Chakra isn't a solid, and more of a force. A greater force will still go through it, although it may be misdirected a bit.

My friend brought up another strategy for gated Lee to surpass the Kaiten. If t he Kaiten spins a certain way, Rock Lee can run around Neji's Kaiten, and enter it in a spiral formation possibly. Move with the Kaiten so it doesn't counter the entry.

And yes Kyuubi Naruto did break the ground when he walked, but it didn't explode like it did with Lee :P And nothing Kyuubi Naruto has shown in speed, has impressed me as much as Ura Renge's speed.

As for the confident smirking after Ura Renge... That was most likely aimed at the fact that even with that, Lee still lost. Another way of him saying a loser like him won't beat someone great... We all know Neji's old logic.

Neji is godly, and I like that character alot... But I think you are overestimating, or underestimating the Gates... Without the gates, there is no doubt that Lee would lose to Neji... But with the power of the Gates, there is at LEAST a chance that he could.

[Jyuuken]

Well the thing is, no one knows if Neji has the instant kill techniques. And if Rock Lee is hit by 64 palms, I'll bet money that he could still open the gates. Because once the gates are forced open, the chakra flow will restore I bet.


it really depends on whether lee can even stand up after the 64-hakke... i can imagine after 64-hakke where lee will just be lying on the ground not moving an inch...

because apparently to open the gates, not only must u break the limit set by ur brains, u also need to at least be combat fit at a minimum...


And yes Kyuubi Naruto did break the ground when he walked, but it didn't explode like it did with Lee :P And nothing Kyuubi Naruto has shown in speed, has impressed me as much as Ura Renge's speed.


impression is not an argument... we haven't seen shodai, nidaime nor sandaime move at such amazing and impressive speeds, but does that mean their fight was of slower calibre when compared to lee vs gaara...? obviously not!

nothing in the anime is going to impress us like Ura Renge did... because its meant to be depicted that way... because the theme of that fight is speed vs absolute defence...

[Shishou]

Well if Naruto has the will to get up, its safe to assume Rock Lee has the will to get up after 64 palms...

I mean, he did Ura Renge, and had his right hand and leg crushed, was unconscious... And still was able to stand in his battle with Gaara. And beating Neji has an even greater meaning to him.



And ya nothing is shown as fast... But there is also no proof, that Kyuubi Naruto is equal or greater than 4 gates speed. Plus I can care less how the anime shows it, the manga speed didn't impress me as much as Lee's either.

[Nidaime-Sama]

Well the thing is, no one knows if Neji has the instant kill techniques. And if Rock Lee is hit by 64 palms, I'll bet money that he could still open the gates. Because once the gates are forced open, the chakra flow will restore I bet.


We have shown several times just one hit he can do serious damage to there opponent, he hit Hinata like 3 times and she was still coughing up blood a month later. If Neji closes Lee's points, the chakra of chakra is stopped and that's is what is needed to open the gates


And again, we can only assume he can do Kaiten in the air... Since Kaiten consists of such a high spin, he may not be able to pull that speed for it to be effective in the air.


He doesn't neee to spin to create the armour, he has shown he can release chakra while in air, case in point when trapped against a tree he still released all the chakra cutting thr webs. Neji can still spin in the air and when he begins to do a full spin he is lifted off the ground while the chakra spins under him. He doesn't need to be in direct contact to the ground.


As for the Chakra armor, it is still chakra, and can still be broken through. Kidoumaru taught us this if anything. Even if Neji forces all his chakra into a single area, the best it will do against something of great force, is slightly move whatever it is. Because Chakra isn't a solid, and more of a force. A greater force will still go through it, although it may be misdirected a bit.


Kaiten has never been broken, and Kidou couldn't get past kaiten so he used the spiders webs to counter spin Neji's rotation. Neji's chakra is solid hence why he can deflect people and weapons. If Lee charged at him in mid-air there is no possible way for a direction change and would run right into the chakra wall. Nothing has gotten past Neji's defence


My friend brought up another strategy for gated Lee to surpass the Kaiten. If t he Kaiten spins a certain way, Rock Lee can run around Neji's Kaiten, and enter it in a spiral formation possibly. Move with the Kaiten so it doesn't counter the entry.


If Lee went the opposite direction he would still go with the flow, it's like sticking a pencil on a wheel when it's spinning, doesn't matter what direction you hit the tire it is still going to go with the flow.


And yes Kyuubi Naruto did break the ground when he walked, but it didn't explode like it did with Lee :P And nothing Kyuubi Naruto has shown in speed, has impressed me as much as Ura Renge's speed.


Tile floors are easier to break apart than solid ground, also remember the ground where Lee was charging at Gaara was already serious damaged from the collision on the ground by Initial Lotus


As for the confident smirking after Ura Renge... That was most likely aimed at the fact that even with that, Lee still lost. Another way of him saying a loser like him won't beat someone great... We all know Neji's old logic.


Yes and Neji is great so he wouldn't lose to that jutsu. If it was used first on Neji than yes Lee owuld have won, but the secret is out and would not work on Neji. "The same jutsu won't work on me twice"


Neji is godly, and I like that character alot... But I think you are overestimating, or underestimating the Gates... Without the gates, there is no doubt that Lee would lose to Neji... But with the power of the Gates, there is at LEAST a chance that he could.

Oh for sure, he does have a chance with opening the gates. However, it is is strongly in Neji's favor

[rubbereruben]

Haha, man I wish Kishimoto would shut this fool up and show that the Proud Azure Beast of Konoha will definitely beat that monkey ass Neji! :)

[Jiraiya]

It'll probably be Neji because Lee can only use taijitsu while Neji can use ninjitsu and taijitsu + he's got a bloodline limit.

[Shishou]

We have shown several times just one hit he can do serious damage to there opponent, he hit Hinata like 3 times and she was still coughing up blood a month later. If Neji closes Lee's points, the chakra of chakra is stopped and that's is what is needed to open the gates



He doesn't neee to spin to create the armour, he has shown he can release chakra while in air, case in point when trapped against a tree he still released all the chakra cutting thr webs. Neji can still spin in the air and when he begins to do a full spin he is lifted off the ground while the chakra spins under him. He doesn't need to be in direct contact to the ground.



Kaiten has never been broken, and Kidou couldn't get past kaiten so he used the spiders webs to counter spin Neji's rotation. Neji's chakra is solid hence why he can deflect people and weapons. If Lee charged at him in mid-air there is no possible way for a direction change and would run right into the chakra wall. Nothing has gotten past Neji's defence



If Lee went the opposite direction he would still go with the flow, it's like sticking a pencil on a wheel when it's spinning, doesn't matter what direction you hit the tire it is still going to go with the flow.



Tile floors are easier to break apart than solid ground, also remember the ground where Lee was charging at Gaara was already serious damaged from the collision on the ground by Initial Lotus



Yes and Neji is great so he wouldn't lose to that jutsu. If it was used first on Neji than yes Lee owuld have won, but the secret is out and would not work on Neji. "The same jutsu won't work on me twice"



Oh for sure, he does have a chance with opening the gates. However, it is is strongly in Neji's favor


Good arguements... Guess there really isn't any way to convince the other side though, without Kishimoto actually doing it.

But again, the same jutsu won't work on Neji twice... but the Ura Renge can be set up in all these different ways... Its not a jutsu that is the same everytime it is used, like Nin/Genjutsu.

[Nidaime-Sama]

Haha, man I wish Kishimoto would shut this fool up and show that the Proud Azure Beast of Konoha will definitely beat that monkey ass Neji! :)

*Yawn* maybe if you didn't have a Lee avatar, sig and custom title maybe I would actually take your post serious

Good arguements... Guess there really isn't any way to convince the other side though, without Kishimoto actually doing it.

But again, the same jutsu won't work on Neji twice... but the Ura Renge can be set up in all these different ways... Its not a jutsu that is the same everytime it is used, like Nin/Genjutsu.

If Lee didn't have that long power-up phase than maybe he would stand a chance

[Arcanis]

I don't think anyone has mentioned "hakke rokujuu yonshou", if neji manages to get lee with this move he's defeated, because there's no kyuubi chakra or golden armor to back him up. And don't say Lee is too fast and wouldn't fall for it...most likely he hasn't seen the technique since Neji trains alone, and Neji is fast too, plus he could slow him down with just ONE hit of his jyuuken and then get him with hakke.

Look what his half made Kaiten worked against a full kyuubi naruto charge...i think a full kaiten could really reduce the impact of an ura renge (if he even lets lee do it), and lee can't do anything after that, but neji (although badly damaged) could still finish him with jyuuken.

Neji wins