HD-DVD vs Blue-Ray

[Shroomsday]

First off, I live in the UK so the format war's still a distance away. I've worked for JVC and the electrical side of ARCS for a while before leaving for University.

From the face of it I was very pro Blue-Ray just down to the superior capacity, but I've heard some very negative things recently.

First off there's the cost, which was somewhat anticipated. The main company leading, Sony, isn't one of my favourites either. I used to really promote their products, but from from stuff like having an entire range of Bravia sets made by Samsung last year (and very little in the way of quality LCD before that), I've gone off them completely.

Now hearing that bugs and issues with the players, quality of current discs being lower than HD-DVD and region encoding (where HD-DVD does not have use region encoding, which is fantastic for anyone outside the US), it really does seem like the format is going to be a Betamax after all. Moreover I really hope it does.

On the face of it, most of the biggest manufacturers (and Film Studios) were Blue Ray bound, but the format just doesn't seem like a good choice any time soon.

[Deathinstinct]

First off there's the cost, which was somewhat anticipated.New technology always costs alot, it'll go down with time.

region encoding (where HD-DVD does not have use region encoding, which is fantastic for anyone outside the US),
This really has nothing to do with the disk, it's simply a choice with the player. There's an information header on almost all types of media, which gives the information necessary to region encode a media type.

Personally this isn't going to be anything like the Betamax v. VHS war. VHS won because it could easily fit a movie on a single tape, while Beta couldn't. That's the only real reason why Beta lost. In this instance there isn't a simple market focus to drive the debate, so it'll likely last much longer.

[Shroomsday]

New technology always costs alot, it'll go down with time.

That's definitely true, but Blue-Ray has started out with players at twice the cost. And for the moment it seems like the reviews are heavily siding with Toshiba's HD-DVD vs Samsung's early Blue-Ray effort. That might be down to the discs, but that's not a shining excuse.

This really has nothing to do with the disk, it's simply a choice with the player. There's an information header on almost all types of media, which gives the information necessary to region encode a media type.

True but right now the Blue-Ray discs and players are coming region encoded and the HD-DVD ones aren't. I can understand that a bit more as Sony have their own movie studio.

Personally this isn't going to be anything like the Betamax v. VHS war. VHS won because it could easily fit a movie on a single tape, while Beta couldn't. That's the only real reason why Beta lost. In this instance there isn't a simple market focus to drive the debate, so it'll likely last much longer.

I didn't know that, learn something new everyday :)

I actually reckon that puts it more like the Betamax vs VHS in some ways then, since storage comes in to it some amount. But it still remains that last time the cheaper format won out. And right now there's a lot more trouble with Blue-Ray, as they're having trouble with double sided discs (and since HD-DVD is apparently getting along well with theirs, they actually have the storage advantage right now).

Then with the whole VC-1 vs mpeg2 compression issue, the Blue-Ray format needs to make some quick changes. As odd as the market can be I don't think people will pay a massive amount more for an inferior product for too long.

[MS81]

I don't know which one will win but my vote is going towards Hd-dvd because it don't cost as much as blue-ray I seen a Hd-player for only $499 @ bestbuy

and the movies cost $30.00 but I want both.

[crazymtf]

Well i guess when i get the PS3 i get a blue ray, lol, so i guess i'll go with that. I don't really care though, just like both and i get some dvds :)

[ShinAkuma]

I'm not sure if there is even a point to introducing two new formats. Connsidering there ae newer compression techniques we don't need monster storage to support hi-def, we just need to use something like DIVX or H.264.

[myle]

I think blu-ray is better than HD-DVD. It has more space to store anything you want and also there are rewritable disks in the market. But the devices are expensive.

[BladeofTheChad]

yup, Blu-ray seems to be the way to go, and while HD-DVD has sold out so far, ive heard they have noly had 10,000 players made, once PS3 comes out, that's at least 2 million at the start.

[Kami-Sama]

i have posted this before but the truth must be told.

http://pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,125618,00.asp

this will decide the winner of the HD-War.

[Shroomsday]

I think blu-ray is better than HD-DVD. It has more space to store anything you want and also there are rewritable disks in the market. But the devices are expensive.

That's true but they can't get the double sided Blue-Ray discs working at the moment, while most HD-DVD's are already released double sided. So at the moment the market has more capacity in the way of HD-DVD.

Then there's the wierd rule Sony have asked for, by pretty much demanding use of the old mpeg2 rather VC-1 (the latter has much better compression). That eats up capacity unneccessarily.

Blue-Ray's best hope is going to be the PS3, but they still need to get the players and movie discs sorted out.

But maybe the matter really will be resolved by porn. Then again though, with the net is recorded media still as big a market for porn as it used to be?

[crazymtf]

That's true but they can't get the double sided Blue-Ray discs working at the moment, while most HD-DVD's are already released double sided. So at the moment the market has more capacity in the way of HD-DVD.

Then there's the wierd rule Sony have asked for, by pretty much demanding use of the old mpeg2 rather VC-1 (the latter has much better compression). That eats up capacity unneccessarily.

Blue-Ray's best hope is going to be the PS3, but they still need to get the players and movie discs sorted out.

But maybe the matter really will be resolved by porn. Then again though, with the net is recorded media still as big a market for porn as it used to be?[/
haha it is. UMD's in japan shot up like crazy when they released porn. So yeah Blue Ray gonna get this one. :P

[myle]

I think games will determine the winner of this battle and not porno industry.

[crazymtf]

Games...there players, they play movies not games :P

[Tonza]

The success of PS3 is a key factor imo. And how long HD-DVD has it's support. (assuming that PS3 sells out at start and Blu-Ray gains a significant lead)

And getting the players prices down asap is important too.
But it could be neither of those "wins". We could see a new format soon and digital distribution will increase in the coming years too.

and yeah, Sony Knows how to lose formats. (UMD, Betamax)

[myle]

I suppose you misunderstood my words. I mean now we have our games in dvds. If sony decides to put his games for PS in Blu-ray, then the blu-ray will have a great advantage. If others companies take the same decision then the blu-ray will dominate.


Its name is Blu and not blue because common words cannot trademarked.

[Kami-Sama]

I think games will determine the winner of this battle and not porno industry.


Betamax vs VHS - Porn went with VHS - VHS FTW

Laserdisc vs DVD's - Porn went with DVD - DVD FTW

UMD's flunking out - Porn started supporting it - UMD's not doing so bad.

bonus: Internet source of boring information - Porn went to the interwebs - Internet is the best place EVAR.

Do NOT deny the power of smut :kukuku

[Angel Slayer]

I have to say that I love Blu-ray, I have seen Blu-ray and it looked most impressive on the display I was viewing it on. The colors were very vivid and crisp, though I have not had the pleasure of seeing anything on HD-DVD's...yet.

Sorry if my post came out biased, but I am really cheering for Blu-ray right now ^_^.

[crazymtf]

Yeah blu ray seems to be the winner, especially with porn behind them. That's good cause it has excellent quility.

[myle]

I don't think this is a good reason to evaluate a product. Neither the producers buld it only for this reason. There are too many facts. More important or less important. And hollywood affects this battle more than porn, in the section of movies. And piracy is an important fact.

[Shroomsday]

Yeah blu ray seems to be the winner, especially with porn behind them. That's good cause it has excellent quility.

That's my problem at the moment, while Blue-Ray seemed like the obvious choice, apparently they're not excellent quality at all right now. Go on review sites or even Amazon and it really doesn't paint a good picture for Blue-Ray.

If it does take over I really hope they improve things.

[NeoDreamer]

actually Crazymtf, the porn industry is using HD-DVD at the moment...but leaders in the porno world say that they will switch to Bluray once it is available..probably when there are more players and what not.

I personally think blu-ray is gonna b better. and to get the full feature of a HD-DVD, do you need a hd tv? I mean bluray u don't apparently, and bluray eliminates the process of buying fucking 7 disc for a season of a show or whatever the industry tries to make more money with.

[crazymtf]

That's my problem at the moment, while Blue-Ray seemed like the obvious choice, apparently they're not excellent quality at all right now. Go on review sites or even Amazon and it really doesn't paint a good picture for Blue-Ray.

If it does take over I really hope they improve things.
But it looked so good in best buy :( I thought it surpassed by HD-DVD...well that's what i saw anyway.

[Ha-ri]

I don't care about the format wars on the home entertainment side, but I just want an afforable blue-ray burner for my computer.

[narutofantacy101]

i am going to have to follow the path of the blu-ray.but the holographic storge system is being worked on and when it comes its gonna blow away both blu-ray and hd-dvd cuz it can hold a freakin 1.2 terrabytes of memory.i will try to give you the link.(if i can remember where it is)

[Shroomsday]

actually Crazymtf, the porn industry is using HD-DVD at the moment...but leaders in the porno world say that they will switch to Bluray once it is available..probably when there are more players and what not.

I personally think blu-ray is gonna b better. and to get the full feature of a HD-DVD, do you need a hd tv? I mean bluray u don't apparently, and bluray eliminates the process of buying fucking 7 disc for a season of a show or whatever the industry tries to make more money with.

To get the full benefit of a High Definition disc you do need a High Definition television. Blue-Ray's supposed to edge out with those with premium sets as it goes up to 1080p (however in the current model they don't make use of that, and the source itself is rescaled). 1080p sets tend to be the larger, more expensive high def panels.

You've also got to understand that if Blue-Ray don't sort out the compression, the difference in space (along with their uncompressed audio track, which is pretty good for audiophiles I guess) on their double sided disc (when it comes out) won't mean a lot. The extra space is for high definition quality moreso than extra time.

And you sure as hell won't pay any less for fewer discs in a season. The industry won't drop money there.

crazymtf: Well who knows, but with things as they are right now, Blue Ray has less capacity than HD-DVD, wastes more space on the disc, is region encoded (that's a pain for us abroad who want to order foreign films and get similar release dates) and has a collection of discs more Enhanced Definition than High Definition (not true HD quality).

If Sony are intelligent and stop calling so many shots on the format, then just focus with getting the problems ironed out, then Blue-Ray should take it.

[Shogun]

okay, here is my knowledge of blu ray vs hd dvd so far: so far there is one player of each on the market, a toshiba hd dvd player and a blu ray. So far the hd dvd discs are dual layer which means they have a maximum of 30gb, currently blu ray discs are only single layer at 25bg. However, they are researching on the whole dual layer thing, but that is not even in production, so who knows when that is going to happen. Not for a while anyway.

Right now films are the only thing that you can purchase on hd dvd or blu ray and both are in 1080p, the difference between the two comes in the encoding. Blu ray still used MPEG2 whilst HD DVD uses VC1. Which is the wave of the future in terms of video compression. Blu ray is also licensed to use VC1 (developed by microsoft) but so far hasn't taken up the offer of doing so.

So right now the main thing is audio and video, currently audio is the same or close-ish, i don't really care about audio too much, so let's get down to picture quality. HD picture quality is dictated by its bit-rate and because MPEG2 is not as efficient as VC1 as the transfer is slower, which actually means that HD DVD has a better picture quality than blu ray, currently.

a couple of pros and cons on either side:
blu ray can use the VC1 technology and will have to use it in order to catch up to the hd dvd picture quality. A hd dvd disc can hold 4 hours of hd content so if sony can ever get their act together they can have nearly double that, so the potential is there and on the gaming side there is even more potential.

with hd dvd it is cheaper to produce in terms of technology and in terms of the actual prices of the discs. It also is very close to dvds in terms of how it is made, so in the future you can by discs which on one side you can use in your normal dvd player then flip it over and use in your hd dvd player, if you get one for instance. That is going to make things a lot easier for consumers as they can start building up their library now. But, the blu ray has the ps3, which means it has an uphill battle.

Who will win?
who knows, it looks tough for hd dvd, but currently it is half the price and has better picture quality than blu ray with more films out, but in the long run the whole universe will have the ps3 and not everyone can afford seperate players, but since the ps3 plays dvd discs people may still not convert,too much too soon perhaps. But i guess we will have to wait and see.

[crazymtf]

Shogun nice summary, i liked it. Wait and see sounds good :)

[Nexas]

Really I'm not interested in either one. A slightly sharper picture and a little extra storage space isn't enough of a reason to rebuy my entire movie collection.

[Black Swan]

I know a couple of people who have extensive dvd collections and they said that they will not build a library of next gen dvd's of current movies but are willing to get next gen new movies. I personally feel the same though my dvd collection is in the upper 30's. Right now i'm leaning towards none, and am employing a wait and see approach. In a year or two when they straighten out all the kinks and glitches I will decide what to get.

[Shroomsday]

Well I don't reckon it makes sense to rebuild your entire collection. The devices will upscale your older DVD's, which is a plus. Blue-Ray haven't stated whether backward compatibility is a permanent thing though.

I think we all recognise that this'll take time to be resolved, I doubt many people on this Forum have parted with their money on either format just yet.

[Shogun]

Well, in terms of blu ray players that upscale dvds it may end up being a rare occurance, simply because you need two different types of lasers in your player, the ps3 has that, but it is an extra cost. So to make things more competitive in terms of prices against hd dvd players some blu ray players may just end up playing blu ray discs.

[Athrum]

Sony did say that the PS3 would be region free..

[Shogun]

you are thinking about the games...

[destroy_musick]

dunno bout you guys, but im getting shit scared by the technologies being developed AFTER blue-ray and HD-DVD comes about.

Holographic DVD and then a few years later...

Molecular Flash Storage. 12.7Tb on a pinhead... be afraid folks, be VERY afraid

[RockLee]

Well, if you read the reviews for both products, it seems that Blu-Ray isn't fairing too well against HD-DVD, which is a damn shame. I thought it had a lot of promise. At the moment, it seems that HD-DVD has greater image quality and is far more stable.

People with good, expensive setups have asked themselves if it was their set up which caused Blu-Ray to "not be unleashed to it's full power." These are people with dedicated theaters. While my interest in Blu-Ray is strong, I am not about to spend 10,000-20,000 USD on a home theater, and those that are are a small minority.

Will it go the way of the LaserDisk?

[destroy_musick]

i myself am going to move to HD-DVD. I have already invested in a HD-DVD RW for my comp. Why? Personal preference more than anything, i have alot of things to back up on my computer alot of the time

[Shogun]

damn rocklee, that post of yours looks like a low rent version of my first one...

[pajamas]

1) Go to Amazon.

Average Reader Reviews for first-gen Toshiba HD-DVD player: 4.5 Stars.

Average Reader Reviews for first-gen Samsung Blu-ray player: 2.5 Stars.

I read a total of 40 reviews, 20 or so from each set, and Blu-ray seems to have worse quality on a 1080p TV than HD-DVD does on 1080i.

And also the Toshiba player apparently is one of the best upconverters ever made.

Which is fairly disturbing.

Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates_(Porn_Film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates_(Porn_Film)

I'd suggest going to that and looking at what format that film was released in.

I'll help. HD-DVD.

Apparently that is a very good movie (according to Gerry Block from IGN), and it's from a company who's be shooting HD for years.

And they're releasing in HD-DVD.

Hmmm.... Blu-ray doesn't seem to be doing too well. =|

[crazymtf]

^HUmmm it just started :) How about we wait awhile, shit just don't fly out and sell like crazy. In a year from now we cna tell who the clear winner is and which way to go.

[Shroomsday]

damn rocklee, that post of yours looks like a low rent version of my first one...

Pretty much everything was already mentioned on the first page. A smaller summation that repeats things isn't anything to get up in arms about.

I'm just happy when I see people putting a bit of thought into their posts =D

From this point we're steading close to Gaming Department territory, as Blue-Ray's success at the moment seems pivotal on whether the PS3 is successful. Otherwise there would be a fairly clear winner.

[Shogun]

it makes sense that this is going towards gaming territory, simply because this latest format wars is going to be fought on three fronts, games, movies and computers. The prices for the drives is going to make a massive difference when it comes to PCs, also the prices of the discs, especially considering the lack of a dual layer blu ray disc.

As for gaming, we will have to see, as hd dvd have no gaming side right now, but the first start for them may be in pcs.

[BladeofTheChad]

Really I'm not interested in either one. A slightly sharper picture and a little extra storage space isn't enough of a reason to rebuy my entire movie collection.


thats why u dont rebuy them...you get a blu-ray player so that when a new one comes out, you can get it on the better format...