Sci-fi vs. Anime/Manga

[Endless Mike]

This is a fight between all the universes of science fiction and all the universes of anime and manga.

The fight will take place in two stages:

1. Ground combat. On an infinitely large flat plain, covered with an ecosystem that resembles Earth, ground combat will take place. The ecosystem and environment (mountains, oceans, trees) etc. are destructible, but the plain underneath it is indestructible. That is, if you detonate a planet - destroying weapon, it will destroy a huge area of the ecosystem and leave a flat, featureless plain over the destroyed area. There is an invisible, impenetrable barrier exactly 20 kilometers above the plain. No weapons or entities that are suited specifically for space combat will be allowed in this stage.

2. Space combat. There is an infinitely large universe, inhabited by the usual assortment of planets, moons, stars, galaxies, etc. There are no living beings present in the universe aside from the participating combatants. The universe itself is indestructible, that is, any weapon or power that would normally destroy the universe will not do so. Travelling to other universes is prohibited, even if a participating entity would normally be capable of doing so. Anything goes for combat in this stage.

No omnipotent beings allowed.

[Rice Ball]

Don't you class Anime/Manga as Science Fiction too? :)

Do you mean Anime/Manga v Everything else ever made up?

Sci-fi win via numbers.

Space = Starwars,Star Trek, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, Warhammer40k etc v Battletech and Gundam

[Ikari Shinji]

Wasn't there a gundam that rendered all technology on earth useless? (destroyed?)

[Endless Mike]

Scifi - based animes/mangas will be on the anime/manga side.

[Rice Ball]

Scifi - based animes/mangas will be on the anime/manga side.

Would kinda suck Gundams v Love Hina etc :P

[Ikari Shinji]

I just realized this was 2 stages :X
This is sci-fi from everything except anime/manga vs. anime/manga sci-fi right?

Ground battle:
I'd have to say anime/manga would win with ease, Eva units 1-3 are practically invincible to anything without an enormous attack (i.e. entire electricity of japan concentrated to penetrate 5th angel's a.t. field) and Eva have significantly stronger fields then the angels, also MP Evas with dummy plugs for back up, Unit 01 and MPs with LoL and S2 is more then enough I think, Gundams with Phase Shift armor would be pretty good too, and there's still RahXephon, Ideon etc.

Space Battle:
Not a clue, I have no knowledge of other universes outer space tech, so it's up in the air for me

[Rice Ball]

Ground battle:
I'd have to say anime/manga would win with ease, Eva units 1-3 are practically invincible to anything without an enormous attack (i.e. entire electricity of japan concentrated to penetrate 5th angel's a.t. field) and Eva have significantly stronger fields then the angels, also MP Evas with dummy plugs for back up, Unit 01 and MPs with LoL and S2 is more then enough I think, Gundams with Phase Shift armor would be pretty good too, and there's still RahXephon, Ideon etc.

Your missing a few things here, 'rest of the Sci-fi' also includes Comics, so were talking an extreme ammount of planet killers like Superman Prime, Thanos with IG, Franklin Richards, Scarlet Witch, Galactus, Parallax, Kingdom come Flash, Spectre and Black Alice :)

Oh and Godzilla

[Ikari Shinji]

Your missing a few things here, 'rest of the Sci-fi' also includes Comics, so were talking an extreme ammount of planet killers like Superman Prime, Thanos with IG, Franklin Richards, Scarlet Witch, Galactus, Parallax, Kingdom come Flash, Spectre and Black Alice :)

Oh and GodzillaAll of that is really irrelevant, Unit 01 is eternal and cannot be destroyed, it was stated that even after the sun was extinguished, Evangelion would live on as proof of human kind's existance, even billions of years from now

Besides that, the only way to get past an a.t. field is by Eva powered weapons, Eva themselves, or use of your own a.t. field (which is how angels do it), teleporting to an alternate universe has no effect either, Unit 01 broke out of one itself, even though that's not really legal in this battle since there's a set stage

IIRC, Ideon has universal level attacks as well, been awhile since I've seen it though

[Endless Mike]

No comics (except for manga, which are technically comics) allowed on either side.

I'd have to say anime/manga would win with ease, Eva units 1-3 are practically invincible to anything without an enormous attack (i.e. entire electricity of japan concentrated to penetrate 5th angel's a.t. field) and Eva have significantly stronger fields then the angels, also MP Evas with dummy plugs for back up, Unit 01 and MPs with LoL and S2 is more then enough I think, Gundams with Phase Shift armor would be pretty good too, and there's still RahXephon, Ideon etc.

You really think Evas can stand up to the likes of 40K Titans, Total Annihilation ground forces, Ogres, Bolos, etc.?

And that's the low end.

Try 5th Imperium marines, who have armor that make them invisible to all but the most advanced sensors, and hyperrifles that can transport anything in their firing arc directly into hyperspace (Think something like Kakashi's MS except in rifle form and fired in a huge, expanding beam of doom that won't run out of power for days). Basically any kind of defense is useless against that, including AT fields.

Or step it up a notch and bring in the Culture. An antique Culture plasma pistol can fire shots more powerful than a small nuke (based on observed effects it is at least 10 times as powerful as an NGE N^2 mine, and this is a HANDGUN).

Bring in modern Culture technology, and Evas are fucked.

A single Culture combat drone could kill everything on Earth in less than a second, and an AT field won't help when an antimatter bomb is teleported directly into the Eva pilot's skull.

Or we could try the Xeelee. A Xeelee combat drone is basically indestructible, it would be easier to destroy a neutron star than one of these things. Not to mention the Xeeleeverse have starbreaker rifles. That's not a misnomer. They have HAND WEAPONS THAT CAN DESTROY STARS.

Then, of course, there's the Shrike.....:iik

[Rice Ball]

All of that is really irrelevant

That statement shows alot of ignorance :(
One of my Fav lines from IC is in Days of Vengence 5-

Spectre. 'Shazam!'
<Captain marvel turns into little Billy Baterson>
Billy. 'You.. you can't do that'
Spectre. 'I'm the Spectre, i can do anything i want'

The hundreds of demons from 40k will be useful, Khrone the Blood God and Kil'Jaedan tag teaming Eva unit 1 would be funny to watch.

[Coaxmetal]

In the Scifi side are you including Games aswell? :huh

FREESPACE 2: If you are including games then I think the 80+ (can't remeber the exact number) Shivan fleet of Sathanasa (probably spelled that wrong) Megadestoryer ships (they are over 5 miles long each) and have the ability together to make a star go supernova. This fleet would be absolutely devistating in space combat.

[Rice Ball]

I've got to play Freespace 2 again, i loved that game.
Not sure how its spelt, sounded like Say-tan-ha

[ydraliskos]

I always pronounced it "Sa(as in sake) Tha (as in Thanos) Nas (as in Nash) It's almost greek for Satan (Ta instead of Tha, and emphasis on the Nas)


Anyway, Sci Fi still has Dune, the Kwisats Haderack and complete future precognition. Also, time travel is quite often too =D




The hundreds of demons from 40k will be useful, Khrone the Blood God and Kil'Jaedan tag teaming Eva unit 1 would be funny to watch.

I don't see howyou can get Kil'Jaeden and marvel/DC to be sci fi, by any stretch of the word =D Marvel/DC is comic-fi or whatever, sci fi is supposed to pay some heed to technology, not just say Thanos has cool technology so he can tank galactus!

[Endless Mike]

The Sathanas fleet is actually on the low - end of effectiveness when it comes to star-busting.

We have the Sun Crusher from Star Wars, which is only slightly bigger than a fighter, practically indestructible, and can slip into a system, fire a torpedo at the sun, and slip out, having the sun detonate a few hours later. Certainly more effective than having an entire fleet of over 100 ships sit around the star for over a month.

Then there are nova bombs from Andromeda, which can be fitted on practically any ship, and do the same thing as the Sun Crusher, except instantaneously.

Then there are Xeelee ships, with starbreakers that do the same thing, except they are not missiles so they don't run out of ammo.

Then there's the Culture, which can vape entire solar systems instantly with gridfire from hundreds of light - years away.

[Ikari Shinji]

That statement shows alot of ignorance :(
One of my Fav lines from IC is in Days of Vengence 5-

Spectre. 'Shazam!'
<Captain marvel turns into little Billy Baterson>
Billy. 'You.. you can't do that'
Spectre. 'I'm the Spectre, i can do anything i want'

The hundreds of demons from 40k will be useful, Khrone the Blood God and Kil'Jaedan tag teaming Eva unit 1 would be funny to watch.Sorry for being ignorant, but it isn't possible to destroy something that's immortal, which Eva was classified as at the end of EoE

As for getting inside of an a.t. field, it's impossible, even teleporting stuff inside can't be done, it's the barrier of the soul, nothing can enter it without manipulating their own field, which only angels/eva can do, the only time it was broken without Eva, was with eva powered weapons, and that was just a weak angel's field, Unit 01 rips through an angel's field like paper, when faced with an alternate dimension, it broke out, and killed the angel which was said that even if they dropped all 992 N2 mines on it, had only a chance of destroying it, and the unit still would've survived after that as well, it has unlimited power from the S2 organ, and was classified as a god, which is why the entire world tried to kill the pilots before they got in their evas, because once they did, they couldn't do anything to stop them

I don't think eva can beat EVERYTHING, but it can withstand really any damage until the pilot becomes emo, which results in either
A. Eva gets owned because it can't do anything
B. Eva goes berserk and kills everything in sight

Although I do think anime/manga side should get ZOE and Xenogears, it really it's one-sided since most manga and anime don't have sci-fi tech up to par with everything else, and yeah, I know ZOE has an anime, but I want the stuff in the games too

I'm not gonna argue anything related to the space battle, since I know nothing of sc-fi tech in space

[Endless Mike]

Right, we know an AT field can block teleportation because of all the times someone tried to teleport something inside of it and it was blocked, right?

Oh, wait....that NEVER happened!

While it could most likely block something like a Star Trek transporter (which is blocked by rocks, modern - day tech electric generators, and tons of other stuff in practically every episode), it could never block something like the teleportation mechanisms from the Culture or Perry Rhodan universes, since they work through completely different dimensions or wormholes, and would just bypass the AT field entirely.

It's like this: Imagine the AT field as a 10 - foot - high wall surrounding a building. You can't just walk through it, but if you can fly, you can just fly over it. That's bypassing it with a teleportation mechanism.

Not to mention that the third Angel was damaged through its AT field by an N^2 mine, which is only about as powerful as a small tacnuke, and the 5th Angel (which was stated to have one of the strongest AT fields) was defeated with the positron rifle which could have only been a few megatons, maximum.

How are they going to stand up against something like a Mk. 33 Bolo, which can fire almost 100 megatons of firepower per second at the target?

And as I stated, that's the low end when it comes to scifi ground forces.

As for '992 N^2 mines' thing, even if we be generous and assume an N^2 mine has a yield of 15 kilotons (which is an overestimation based on its observed effects), then 992 of them would be equal to 14.88 megatons. The most powerful nuclear bomb ever built, the Tsar bomb, had a yield of about 50 megatons, and that is utterly dwarfed by the power of even low - end scifi ground forces.

[Rice Ball]

I don't see howyou can get Kil'Jaeden and marvel/DC to be sci fi, by any stretch of the word =D Marvel/DC is comic-fi or whatever, sci fi is supposed to pay some heed to technology, not just say Thanos has cool technology so he can tank galactus!

Well Kil'Jaeden might be stretching it, who knows he could be a part of the Starcraft Universe :P But Starcraft/WH40K/Some Marvel/DC has to be classed as Sci-Fi :)

Sorry for being ignorant, but it isn't possible to destroy something that's immortal, which Eva was classified as at the end of EoE

When a being of greater power says 'Your no longer immortal' then read my line about spectre :P
A WH40K C'tan should be able to make short work of a Eva with no effort.

[Endless Mike]

I already said that comics like Marvel/DC/Image/Wildstorm/etc. don't count for either side because that would tilt the balance of power too much.

[ydraliskos]

Ok, how about that.

If there was just a single, one in a million chance that sci-fi wins, God Emperor Leto has foreseen it for some hundreds of years already, and is already guiding events along that path to that future.

[Rice Ball]

Dr Who > Eva unit 1 :(

[ydraliskos]

Dr. Who??


(I just had to, lol)

[Rice Ball]

Should of guessed that would happen :P

[narutorulez]

i think anime/manga would win this battle

[Endless Mike]

i think anime/manga would win this battle

Reasoning?

[Rice Ball]

Reasoning?

Because this is an anime forum. :nod

Thank god you didn't put a poll on this thread :)

[ydraliskos]

Yeah, seriously.


If you think about it,(good) sci-fi has been pushing the borders of fiction and imagination for the past 60 years, while anime/manga seems content to rehash old themes and tie everything with martial arts and power levels of individuals in some way or another. Hell, even in yakitate.

So, it stands to reason that sci-fi would have more creative and broken weapons XD

[All Things Evil]

No one really knows because we don't know everything about either universe.I have no clue about half the shit all of you were talking about so since the people who only know anime are going to say anime and the people who know more about sci fi are going to say sci fi then there is no real way of knowing which of the two would actually win.

[Endless Mike]

Well we can each give each other information on both sides and then determine who would win.

[escamoh]

I think Sci-fi would win this...

But then there are Sci-fi themed anime but I never watch them.

[ydraliskos]

The inevitable Tyranid-Zerg-Borg-Xenomorph Species that would be produced from the alliance of those 4 sides alone would probably do anime right in XD


I think Sci-fi would win this...

But then there are Sci-fi themed anime but I never watch them.


Besides Mecha Sci Fi, all other anime sci-fi are like older than me >_< shame that we don't get any more of those

[NineG]

Scifi = the borg ... end of story , or you gonna need some manga/anime gods

[Endless Mike]

The Borg aren't all that tough.... especially the Voyager versions that would get utterly pwned in every episode they showed up in.

Most Star Trek races are actually on the very very low scale of scifi tech.

[Coaxmetal]

The absolute unstoppable force that will win Sci-fi in the ground combat.

ZERG RUSH!!!!! :yell

Just kidding. :laugh

The Borg aren't all that tough.... especially the Voyager versions that would get utterly pwned in every episode they showed up in.

Most Star Trek races are actually on the very very low scale of scifi tech.
Star Trek shouldn't play a factor in this fight because of this reason.

Heck the whole star fleet is made up ships that so multitasked that in open combat in this type of scenario they are near useless.

[Gunshin]

Rahxephon can just will the non-manga/anime people out of existance.

Yuki Nagato can manipulate data in the physical world making her Neo from the Matrix with the exception that her powers extend to the physical world.

Theres a bunch of overpowered anime sci-fi related people that can crush the non-anime/manga ones.

[Endless Mike]

Rahxephon can just will the non-manga/anime people out of existance.

Yuki Nagato can manipulate data in the physical world making her Neo from the Matrix with the exception that her powers extend to the physical world.

Theres a bunch of overpowered anime sci-fi related people that can crush the non-anime/manga ones.

And how is this going to help if someone travels back in time and destroys them before they were ever born?

Or teleports a black hole into their skulls before they can even do anything?

[Coaxmetal]

Rahxephon can just will the non-manga/anime people out of existance.

Yuki Nagato can manipulate data in the physical world making her Neo from the Matrix with the exception that her powers extend to the physical world.

Theres a bunch of overpowered anime sci-fi related people that can crush the non-anime/manga ones.
"The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" was actually a book first (not manga or anime) so technically Yuki would be on the sci-fi side (and yes she has those powers in the book).

I was also thinking about Arthur C Clarke recently and thought that the aliens from 2001 series would be definitly powerful enemies if they were in bloodlust. They are so advance that they have transended physical bodies.

[ydraliskos]

Theres a bunch of overpowered anime sci-fi related people that can crush the non-anime/manga ones.

God emperor Leto has stopped those persons from getting born by killing their ancestors.

Some sci-fi is REALLY out there, as far as creativity goes, and that means strong and strange powers =D

[Gunshin]

And how is this going to help if someone travels back in time and destroys them before they were ever born?

Or teleports a black hole into their skulls before they can even do anything?
Assuming this is a fair battle where both participants start in front of each other... how are those things you mentioned going to help before they are willed out of existance? And even if they did manage to time travel, how are they going to know who to kill?

"The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" was actually a book first (not manga or anime) so technically Yuki would be on the sci-fi side (and yes she has those powers in the book).
The illustrations were manga style. In any case, the majority would agree it is closer to being in the anime/manga category than sci-fi.

God emperor Leto has stopped those persons from getting born by killing their ancestors.

Some sci-fi is REALLY out there, as far as creativity goes, and that means strong and strange powers =D
In roder for him to beat out Rahxephon..

1. He'd have to timetravel REALLY fast. Like blink an eye and teleport.
2. He'd have to know which reality to time travel to.
3. He'd have to know which timeline to travel to.
4. He'd have to know the history of every person involved with Rahxephon.
5. We'd have to assume that time stops in the present when he moves to the past. Otherwise, Rahxephon can alter reality.

[ydraliskos]

Assuming this is a fair battle where both participants start in front of each other...


What are you talking about? We are talking about thousands of CIVILIZATIONS here. Stand in front of eachother? Do you realize the scale of this?


5. We'd have to assume that time stops in the present when he moves to the past. Otherwise, Rahxephon can alter reality.

LMAO XD

Time doesn't stop in the present when he moves to the past, doh, why should it. He moves to the past, and present has been different for as far back as he went.

[konflikti]

What are you talking about? We are talking about thousands of CIVILIZATIONS here. Stand in front of eachother? Do you realize the scale of this?

Maybe the ground fight will end when the planet collapses to a black hole. due to the huge amount of stuff? Shrike's Tree of Pain would be so full. :|

[Nyat]

In Warhammer 40k isn't Chaos impossible to truly defeat? Doesn't it have like infinite amounts of demons within its own realm (only a few actually getting out into reality)? I know thats how it is in Fantasy Battle, so I assume it works that way in 40k as well. Not to mention that the Chaos Gods aren't omnipotent (thus allowed by the rules), but they have incredible intergalactic-empire-destroying-while-just-waking-up (and this being the weakest of the 4 big ones) power...and they are the embodiment of specific negative emotions/concepts, meaning they will always exist as long as those emotions or concepts exist (and in a massive battle I'm pretty sure Khorne the god of War won't be going away any time soon).

Edit: Just remembered that Berserk has "The Idea of Evil" (or whatever its called), which is very similiar to the Chaos Gods in its source of power. So in my oppinion neither side can be defeated unless everyone in existance becomes 100% pure of heart (and stops fighting...which means neither side can win). So its a draw.

[Endless Mike]

It's not on a planet, it's on an indestructible infinite plain.

And as for reaction times, creatures like the Shrike and Culture drones have that down pat pretty well.

[ydraliskos]

It's not on a planet, it's on an indestructible infinite plain.

And as for reaction times, creatures like the Shrike and Culture drones have that down pat pretty well.

Are those from Hyperion, and the Fall of aforesaid? Didn't manage to read it :(

[Endless Mike]

The Shrike appears in the books Hyperion, The Fall of Hyperion, Endymion, and The Rise of Endymion.

I've read the first three and just started the fourth.

The Culture appears in many books by Iain Banks.

[The Space Cowboy]

...The Shrike carves a horribly bloody swath through nearly every anime/mangaverse, assisted by thousands of men in Force Armor. SSJ4 Goku is left impaled on a spike somewhere. Te

But really...Sci-fi takes this one with ease, in all environs. Science Fiction, as in written Science Fiction, is a much less limited medium than anime or manga. A writer of Science fiction has the entire bank of the human language to communicate with, while manga and anime are inherently visual.

In Sci-fi novels you have mere -infantry- that tote terawatt-class lasers, godlike beings that can bend time as they wish, entities whose bitch is the unified field et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Not to mention the starships thousands of kilometers across that do battle at superluminal speeds with warheads that blink through hyperspace to engulf the target in a handy black hole.

Sci-fi wins on a general basis because it is an older, more expansive, and better detailed set of stories. It is also not constrained to visual storytelling as much as anime & manga are. That, and we never get into the silly arguments over what is canon and what is not.

Really, I think for a decent argument, you'd have to constrain it to specific series as is the norm.

[vagnard]

You don't need Evas. Spaceships from Tenchi Muyo (specially Tsunami who is an spaceship too) can kick the ass of any spaceship/ robot or form of technlogy of the rest of Sci-fi.....unless we are talking about some God Sentient Spaceship that can control the Space and Time at will.

[ydraliskos]

what kind of spaceship is tsunami? I'm pretty sure I know better sci fi ones, gimme some details ...

[vagnard]

Tsunami is a Choushin. One of the 3 main goddess who created the Tenchi Multiverse...equivalent to Living Tribunal of Marvel. She became a sentient spaceship (she has 3 forms: a human form, a tree form and a spaceship form) to create a whole family of powerful sentient spaceships for the Planet Jurai. These Tree-ships let Jurai became an Empire and dominate the whole Universe. The ships are classified by "generations". A generation closer to Tsunami is stronger. So.... 1st Generation > 2nd Generation. A 5th or 4th generation ship has enough power to wipe a planet like the Earth easily with one shot. (stated by Kajishima, the author in the Tenchi Novels and in Tenchi Encyclopedia)

3rd generation ships and above have Ko-Oh-Yoku (Light Hawk Wings)...these things are blades of pure energy that have perfect defense and offensive. They can absorb ANY energy (except energy from a similar source like other Light Hawk Wings or Ryoko and Kagato gems). These wings can transfom the absorbed energy and redirect it in many possible ways (think in Green Lantern ring) The ships are controlled telepatically through pure willpower...so the efficiency depends mainly in the mind of the owner and his/her synchronization with her/his tree.

Tsunami showed enough power to wipe a whole galaxy easily...in fact...she created a multiverse so the power of Spaceship Tsunami is restricted practically only by her own will....her only possible limits in Tenchi Universe are her 2 sisters, Kami Tenchi and The Counterreactor. Beside of that she can do/destroy anything in the series.

[ydraliskos]

Oh... ok...

I can't remember anything similar =( I can probably match anything up to 3rd generation, but Tsunami is a god practically . .. Unless I get sci-fi gods, I don't think I can match powers with it with any sort of conventional spaceship fleet.