Archimonde vs. Tassadar

[Insipidipity]

Tassadar, destroyer of the Overmind, vs. Archimonde of the Burning Legion.

[BakaKage]

hmmmmm I've never really played as much WC as Starcraft but I think Archimonde takes this.
Although if Archimonde can die from freaking wisps, He can sure as hell die if a Carrier buffed up with light and dark templar energy crashing into him. Teal colored suped up Gantrithor FTW!!

[ydraliskos]

If you just mean Tassadar on foot, then he's dead.

Tassadar turning the carrier Gantrithor and himself into pure psi-energy and crashing it in his face would seriously kick his ass back to the Twisting Nether

[Insipidipity]

Well another thing about Tassadar is that he had both Templar and Dark Templar powers. Those aren't to be taken lightly. Nor is the effect of Psionic storm on a nonpsionically aware mind. Magic can summon infernos but psionic storms could tear apart the mind.

[Fenix]

Huh, when did Tassadar have dark templar power? I cant remember it's been so long.

Anyways, Starcraft is 1000x more awesome than Warcraft, but Archimonde definitely takes this in a 1on1 fight.

[Pipboy]

Archimonde the Defiler takes this in a landslide. It took the souls of an entire civilzation to take him out. Tassadar is a guy that would die if you shot him in the face. Also, psi attacks are of limited use against archimonde whose mind is like a fortress.

[Insipidipity]

Archimonde the Defiler takes this in a landslide. It took the souls of an entire civilzation to take him out. Tassadar is a guy that would die if you shot him in the face. Also, psi attacks are of limited use against archimonde whose mind is like a fortress.
Tassadar took out the minds of an entire race.

The Overmind's mind was like a fortress on steroids and crack, able to command an entire race of planet ravagers, compared to that, Archimonde's mind is a toddler's.

[Pipboy]

That earns an ORLY. Especially when you consider that archimonde is effectively a god, and he is the boss of the guy that holds an entire world of free willed undead under his command. The zerg are designed to be group minded. Plus Tassadar had to die to do it. The best he can do is a draw, and more likely archimonde will wave his hand and the carrier will run into a small mountain range. Magic is a notorious trump to technology. Oh and the overmind was not a fortress on crack. It was surrounded by a fortress but it was essentially a big bleeding brain. Once its defenses were breached all it took was a shock with enough voltage.

[ydraliskos]

That earns an ORLY. Especially when you consider that archimonde is effectively a god, and he is the boss of the guy that holds an entire world of free willed undead under his command. The zerg are designed to be group minded. Plus Tassadar had to die to do it. The best he can do is a draw, and more likely archimonde will wave his hand and the carrier will run into a small mountain range. Magic is a notorious trump to technology. Oh and the overmind was not a fortress on crack. It was surrounded by a fortress but it was essentially a big bleeding brain. Once its defenses were breached all it took was a shock with enough voltage.

Big underestimation of Starcraft XD (Also, what do you mean the souls of an entire civilization. I'm sure there weren't more than 1000 wisps in that attack

You say he's effectively a god. Well, sorry, he's nowhere near a god, technically, only in title. Only Sargeras had the level of omnipotence to be considered a cosmic, or a god in this case. Archimonde was just a huge, strong sorcerer. (and as for whose boss he is, that is not related to anything =D Lich king could kick his ass regardless of wether he's his boss ornot. Boss != stronger than)

Now about the Carrier, well I don't think he could wave away a huge spaceship of pure energy crashing down on him from orbit. I mean, the most telekinesis Archimonde ever did was break Dalaran(And he still had to draw runes for like 3 minutes to do it, not just wave his hand like you say). Gantrithor is quite bigger than dalaran, and certainly has more momentum on a nosedive.

The Overmind was armored to hell when they stormed Aiur, iirc. Wasn't just a brain. And if ANYTHING else could physically harm him, don't you think they'd just have nuked him , in that battle? There were plenty of ghosts there. No, even after breaching the armor, nothing could harm that thing besides the Templar energies to cancel his own, else Tassadar wouldn't commit suicide just to look cool =/ He'd nuke it.
Starcraft wasn't just pure technology. It focused a lot on magic, it just named it psionic energies to keep its sci-fi setting intact, but the powers themselves were too advanced to be called just telepathy/kinesis.

Now if that would work on Archimonde is any man's guess. I believe that it would, simply because it would be much more of a sight than some wisps detonating.

(By the way, if I wanted to be annoying and kill all the feel this scene had, I could just claim that any sort of antimagic or dispell in equal size would kill Archimonde, or even just pure damage of the appropriate scale, but I wont=D)

[Pipboy]

Its a semi distributed intellect, you need a psi charge to kill it. And no I am not being obtuse. Starcraft is on a wider stage than warcraft but the individual power is on a different order, especially upper tier creatures.

[Insipidipity]

he is the boss of the guy that holds an entire world of free willed undead under his command
The Lich King became more powerful than Archimonde(it didn't really make sense how, but they say he was more powerful than his creators could control).

The Lich King and Archimonde were to the Warcraft world basically what Kerrigan and the Overmind were to the Starcraft world. Slaves who became more powerful than their masters(who were defeated in the first, and the latter becoming rulers in the expansion)

[ydraliskos]

Btw I forgot to acknowledge that it would indeed be a draw even if Tassadar's suicide worked.

As for warcraft individual power being higher, well this one is proven and noone can argue with it. It's just that we give Tassadar the carrier to tip the scales.

Its a semi distributed intellect, you need a psi charge to kill it. Is that an actual rule? I thought it was just Xel'naga developed energies cancelling eachother out, and that Tassadar needed the Dark Templar side too just to be able to channel the complete Protoss element against the Zerg element, but that's just speculation.

(I had to look up obtuse >_<, whats wrong with blunt?)

[omg laser pew pew!]

The Lich King became more powerful than Archimonde(it didn't really make sense how, but they say he was more powerful than his creators could control).

The Lich King and Archimonde were to the Warcraft world basically what Kerrigan and the Overmind were to the Starcraft world. Slaves who became more powerful than their masters(who were defeated in the first, and the latter becoming rulers in the expansion)

Actually Archimonde and the Overmind are still more powerful than Ner'Zhul and Kerrigan (or that's how I see it)

Kerrigan did need to team up to help kill the Overmind the second time since she said that it would eventually control her again if it kept growing again. She's only so 'powerful' because unlike other cerabrates, she can fight AND exert control

The reason why Kil'Jaedan can't kill Ner'Zhul is because he needs to be summoned onto the plane (much like Archimonde) and there's no one of the plane willing to do so

[ydraliskos]

Actually Archimonde and the Overmind are still more powerful than Ner'Zhul and Kerrigan (or that's how I see it)

Kerrigan did need to team up to help kill the Overmind the second time since she said that it would eventually control her again if it kept growing again. She's only so 'powerful' because unlike other cerabrates, she can fight AND exert control

The reason why Kil'Jaedan can't kill Ner'Zhul is because he needs to be summoned onto the plane (much like Archimonde) and there's no one of the plane willing to do so

For Kerrigan, agreed. As far as power goes, she has weaker control than the overminds. What she does have tho, is better tactics, and better concept of treachery. That's why she dominated everyone in Broodwars, in the end. Old Overmind just attack moved.

Lich King now, I disagree, if only because of all the foreshadowing around in every work of blizzard. They're setting the Lich King up for great things, i tell you =D I don't think even Archimonde could just waltz into Northrend and take on the scourge and Arthas-LichKing.

EDIT: About foreshadowing, I'm not kidding. I was reviewing the official history some days ago, and they were laying it quite thick. Almost everywhere the Lich King was mentioned, there was ALWAYS a line about how he was stronger than anticipated, of how control of undead came easier than anticipated, a general theme of exceeding initial standards.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Remember that Ner'Zhul was granted his power by Kil'Jaedan and Arthas was given power by Ner'Zhul

And you forgot, Kil'Jaedan cannot enter that plane unless someone powerful summons him and the only people who are well learned in the demonic arts are mostly dead or not willing to summon Kil'Jaedan

[ydraliskos]

Yeah, I did not forget. I just don't think that lack of entry means is the reason Kil'Jaeden won't kill the Lich King.

Give me a minute, I want to find a bunch of lines from the history to show you for the first part of your post.

Ok found em. What is foreshadowed, in my opinion, from these, is that while Kil'Jaeden remains the same, the Lich King powers expand constantly, somehow like he was meant to exist at some point, like KilJaeden didn't just make something new, but gave life to a concept. Anyway that's just my interpretation.

Quotes:

-Though Ner'zhul was agreeable and seemingly anxious to play his part, Kil'jaeden remained skeptical of his pawn's loyalties. Keeping the Lich King bodiless and trapped within the crystal cask assured his good conduct for the short term.
+ LichKing is no longer trapped, foreshadowing no1

-The raging cacophony in his mind caused Ner'zhul to grow even more powerful, as if their spirits provided him with much-needed nourishment.
+Indications of separate growth from his initial power. His telepathic ability grows along with his army

-Arthas placed the unimaginably powerful helm on his head and became the new Lich King. Ner'zhul and Arthas' spirits fused into a single mighty being, just as Ner'zhul had always planned. Arthas became one of the most powerful entities the world had ever known.
+That, if nothing else, puts him in the same tier as Archimonde.


I 'll say again that none of this is proof. This is just me interpreting quotes that I think serve as foreshadowing on blizzard's part.

[Rice Ball]

Tassadar would win.
Hallucinated Archimonde + Tassadar v Archimonde

[omg laser pew pew!]

Tassadar would win.
Hallucinated Archimonde + Tassadar v Archimonde

Did you know that Tassadar is like the size of Archimonde's toenail?

[Insipidipity]

Remember that Ner'Zhul was granted his power by Kil'Jaedan and Arthas was given power by Ner'Zhul

And you forgot, Kil'Jaedan cannot enter that plane unless someone powerful summons him and the only people who are well learned in the demonic arts are mostly dead or not willing to summon Kil'Jaedan
I forgot, how did KilJaedan get stuck in the nether while Archimonde wasn't?

[ydraliskos]

He didn't get stuck. It's just that to summon Archimonde, you had Kel Thuzad do a huge ritual inside Dalaran, using the spellbook of Medivh. You had to protect him for like 40 minutes and it was a tough-ass mission ..

[omg laser pew pew!]

He didn't get stuck. It's just that to summon Archimonde, you had Kel Thuzad do a huge ritual inside Dalaran, using the spellbook of Medivh. You had to protect him for like 40 minutes and it was a tough-ass mission ..

That was the only level I had to cheat to do!

Of course I sucked really bad then, I only suck a little now at WC3

[Rice Ball]

Did you know that Tassadar is like the size of Archimonde's toenail?

Yes and does size matter in a fight like this, he'd have his own Hallucination to deal with as well as a strong Psi user.

Archimonde is well overrated :)

[omg laser pew pew!]

Yes and does size matter in a fight like this, he'd have his own Hallucination to deal with as well as a strong Psi user.

Archimonde is well overrated :)

Well the difference is that most big guys are lacking magical powers, Archimonde doesn't.

Yes he was killed by wisps but that's different, you can't compare unit functions in a game compared to the real world otherwise 1 Peon > Archimonde since a wisp can't kill peons

[Rice Ball]

Its not like Tassadar's gunna melee him :)

More than likely make an Hallucination, while the 2 giants bash each other he can use abilities like Psi Storm.

Archimonde's abilities include a Deathbolt (Turn enemy inside out), Rain of Fire.

In game Archimonde was only twice the size of an average Orc, in the movie footage of him attacking the world tree he was around 1/4 the size of the part we could see of it. Thats more than likely at least 10x normal orc size.

[omg laser pew pew!]

If you're going by in-game then you'll notice that hallucinations do no damage and took extra damage

Did you see how big he was when compared to the surrounding trees?

[ydraliskos]

Its not like Tassadar's gunna melee him :)

More than likely make an Hallucination, while the 2 giants bash each other he can use abilities like Psi Storm.

Archimonde's abilities include a Deathbolt (Turn enemy inside out), Rain of Fire.

In game Archimonde was only twice the size of an average Orc, in the movie footage of him attacking the world tree he was around 1/4 the size of the part we could see of it. Thats more than likely at least 10x normal orc size.

Er, aren't you mistaking starcraft hallucinations for warcraft mirror images? SC hallucinations were never able to do damage.. or you mean just tank him?


By the way, Archimonde's and Overmind's death are extremely similar, now that I think about it.
What Tassadar did was almost the same as wisp detonate, only instead of some wisps, he detonated a fucking carrier and himself while crashing down from orbit =D Badass!

[Rice Ball]

Nah the hallucinations do take damage so are Physical and would be able to at least Grapple and give Tassadar a chance to free cast Psi Storm (who knows, it could be deadly to Archimonde, it was to Battleships and look at the size of them etc)

[ydraliskos]

How about Archimonde vs Two Tassadars? They could fuse into a Dark+Light Archon, with awesome psibolts, HARD shields, and psi-stuns, a totally broken mind control and manaburn! XD

[Fenix]

Huh, changing the scenario midfight!?!?

Read the War of the Ancients trilogy

Archimonde kicked the shit out of everyone in there. He can definitely fight two Archons at once if needed.

[Spacey]

I really know too little about Tassadar to comment on this, I'm not very versed in SC lore

[omg laser pew pew!]

Nah the hallucinations do take damage so are Physical and would be able to at least Grapple and give Tassadar a chance to free cast Psi Storm (who knows, it could be deadly to Archimonde, it was to Battleships and look at the size of them etc)

Archimonde is magic immune

Also after playing the last level again, Tassadar didn't destroy the Overmind himself. He channelled all the Dark Templar energies through the Gantrithor

[Insipidipity]

Archimonde is magic immune

Also after playing the last level again, Tassadar didn't destroy the Overmind himself. He channelled all the Dark Templar energies through the Gantrithor
Well yea, but it was all his energy was it not?
He was the only templar to attain both types.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Well yea, but it was all his energy was it not?
He was the only templar to attain both types.

It was never stated whose energies it whose, for all we know Zeratul and his own could have channelled some of their energy into it. Also Tassadar didn't show any Dark Templar skills (he probably did though), he was stated to have studied under Zeratul

[ydraliskos]

Archimonde is magic immune

Also after playing the last level again, Tassadar didn't destroy the Overmind himself. He channelled all the Dark Templar energies through the Gantrithor

That meant that he was able to channel Dark Templar energies in addition to his own Templar energies, not that he pulled some sort of genki-dama by channeling other people's energies.
I don't remember ever hearing something like this in starcraft ( I mean people channeling other people's energies)
After all, he just needed the Dark Templar energies because they were the only ones capable of actually killing a cerebrate, and Zeratul had enough of that to solo one.

I'm reading a novel that depicts those events right now. I'll tell you more detailed information tomorrow, probably

[kombak]

Archimonde will soon be defeated by a 40guy raid (c) not that strong (gg blizzard :p)

[Rice Ball]

Archimonde is magic immune

Also after playing the last level again, Tassadar didn't destroy the Overmind himself. He channelled all the Dark Templar energies through the Gantrithor

Theres no such thing as Psi in Warcraft :)

[ydraliskos]

Well there are no demons in starcraft either :P


also...


There are nooooooooo cats in americaaaa

[Pipboy]

Theres no such thing as Psi in Warcraft :)

Actually there are quite a few powerful psychics in warcraft. The lich king being the prime example. His psi powers where enough to dominate an entire continent when left to their own devices.

Kil'Jaeden is supposedly even more powerful.

[Rice Ball]

Actually there are quite a few powerful psychics in warcraft. The lich king being the prime example. His psi powers where enough to dominate an entire continent when left to their own devices.

Kil'Jaeden is supposedly even more powerful.

Control of undead and Psi control of people are 2 different things, he does 'semi' control the young prince but not much more than that.

[ydraliskos]

He was influencing the living for a long time before the scourge outbreak tho.

Still, what's your point? :P

[Rice Ball]

its no secret that Starcraft technology level is far far greater than Warcraft.

I mean a single Zealot could take out a whole enemy base etc. Templars use Psi energy against much bigger things than Archimonde, a single Psi Storm could take out a massive ammount of Battleships/Ultralisks.

Its not far fetched to say a single psi storm 'could' have a deadly effect on Archimonde, deadly enough to kill him instantly.

[Pipboy]

Its actually the reverse, the level of personal power of entities in warcraft is in general far beyond that of the starcraft universe. The lich King is both a psychic and mystic juggernaut, dominion and control of both living and free willed undead are his. He has a psychic presense that is crushing just to be in its presence.

An arch demon like Archimonde or Kil'Jaeden is leagues above just about anything in star craft. Archimonde, the lesser of the pair, was still powerful enough to crush an entire city, that was warded extensively with defenses a seige tank couldn't break by making a sand castle of it and stomping it.

There are entities in warcraft that control time and life, as well as evolution and dreams. Star craft has psi, but it really only has an advantage there in quantity. In quality, Kil'Jaeden the Lich King et all are far greater masters.

[ydraliskos]

Its actually the reverse, the level of personal power of entities in warcraft is in general far beyond that of the starcraft universe. The lich King is both a psychic and mystic juggernaut, dominion and control of both living and free willed undead are his. He has a psychic presense that is crushing just to be in its presence.

An arch demon like Archimonde or Kil'Jaeden is leagues above just about anything in star craft. Archimonde, the lesser of the pair, was still powerful enough to crush an entire city, that was warded extensively with defenses a seige tank couldn't break by making a sand castle of it and stomping it.

There are entities in warcraft that control time and life, as well as evolution and dreams. Star craft has psi, but it really only has an advantage there in quantity. In quality, Kil'Jaeden the Lich King et all are far greater masters.

Dunno about Kil'Jaeden, but I'm with you on the Lich King XD


GODDAMN it again, you can't imagine how bummed I am. We have some great lore to expand on, and blizzard won't make a game for it because it wants to milk the mmorpg cow >___>

[Pipboy]

Dunno about Kil'Jaeden, but I'm with you on the Lich King XD


GODDAMN it again, you can't imagine how bummed I am. We have some great lore to expand on, and blizzard won't make a game for it because it wants to milk the mmorpg cow >___>

Well Kil'Jaeden is the Deciever, and he did give Ner'Zhul his powers, and he is the most powerful Eredar Sorcerer in the universe. True it is a little assumptive but...

And as for lore, there is actually a great deal of low and mid level lore, as well as a smattering of epic lore in the MMO. It takes a good deal more work to glean and the storyline isn't exactly evolving rapidly but its there.

[Fenix]

Huh, since when was it stated Archimonde was less powerful than Kil'jaeden?

If I remember correctly, Archimonde was always said to be the 2nd in command of the legion after Sargeras

[ydraliskos]

Well, it was a pyramid structure AFAIK. Archimonde was the head of the army and Kil'Jaeden was head of the corrupting effort.

[Pipboy]

Its his title, Kil'Jaeden was the First Sorceror of the legion, which amongst the erdar warlocks is what matters. Plus in standard convention, the guy you didn't get is the worse of the two.

[ydraliskos]

the guy you didn't get is the worse of the two.

So true...

[Fenix]

Its his title, Kil'Jaeden was the First Sorceror of the legion, which amongst the erdar warlocks is what matters. Plus in standard convention, the guy you didn't get is the worse of the two.

mMm when was this title given? if it's after the burning crusade announcement....bah they changed the story so much lol =[

[Spacey]

AFAIK Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden are equal in ranks just below Sargeras, Kil'Jaeden is the Deciever and Archimonde was the Defiler.

[Pipboy]

There was a reference in either the in game materials or some dev commentary that called Kil'Jaeden the First Sorceror.

[humpa]

Archimonde imho. oh wait wait.

If its Tassadar in Carrier

MASS CARRIERS = INSTANT WIN