View Full Version : SILVER SURFER Vs. GOLD SAINT VIRGO SHAKA!
Phenomenol
07-08-2006, 06:26 PM
I am talking about the Silver Surfer with the Power up! The Surfer that destroyed the entire fleet that was present. The same fleet that it took three Heralds to destroy one ship with! Against Gold Saint Shaka the man "Closest To God!"
Marvel fans and Saint Seiya...
Battle.
Comic Book Guy
07-08-2006, 06:29 PM
Power-up?
Being a guy that doesn't know about Surfer intimately (it shall be rectified by the end of this summer), the only power-up I know for Surfer was with the Uni-Power.
escamoh
07-08-2006, 08:01 PM
I don't know much about Silver Surfer...
But can he get out of Tenbu Horin? That attack that wipes out all the senses and basically makes the victim a living corpse.
superbatman86
07-08-2006, 08:43 PM
I don't know much about Silver Surfer...
But can he get out of Tenbu Horin? That attack that wipes out all the senses and basically makes the victim a living corpse.Well seeing that Shaka would be dead before he can attack it doesn't really matter.Surfer is many multiple times the speed of light.
I am talking about the Silver Surfer with the Power up! The Surfer that destroyed the entire fleet that was present. The same fleet that it took three Heralds to destroy one ship with! Against Gold Saint Shaka the man "Closest To God!"
Marvel fans and Saint Seiya...
Battle.
In your post after this you state that it's Uni-powered Surfer, which is not the same one that destroyed the Annihilation Wave fleet that had surrounded Galactus. At the moment we have no clue what his powers are, simply that he's definitely more powerful than before, since the storyline is ongoing. Uni-powered Surfer's abilities are easier to pin down, I'm sure, if someone has read that storyline.
Endless Mike
07-08-2006, 10:38 PM
Surfer turns Shaka's body into a black hole and kills him.
Toffeeman
07-08-2006, 10:58 PM
Not too familiar with Shaka, but unless he can travel 186,000 miles per second then he's going to have a difficult time with the Surfer...
Endless Mike
07-08-2006, 11:07 PM
Surfer has actually been clocked at over 31 million times c during the guantlet grab maneuver.
Toffeeman
07-08-2006, 11:08 PM
Surfer has actually been clocked at over 31 million times c during the guantlet grab maneuver.
I know, i was reffering to his "base" speed. :amuse
I think Silver Surfer had the advantage so Silver Surfer FTW.
DarkLordDragon
07-09-2006, 08:49 AM
Well it's a though battle but I really doubt if Silver Surfer could defeat Shaka easily, it's true that Silver Surfer maybe can move beyond the speed of light but we never saw him using light speed reflexes and reactions in fighting. There was many times when Thanos knocked Silver Surfer down even without using Planet-Busters or lightspeed but by a surprise attack and our Silver Surfer honestly is not as smart as Gemini Saga or Shaka when it comes to fighting. Shaka was fighting 3 Gold Saints (Well probably 2 Gold Saints fighting him at the same time) and they were lightspeed and still Shaka had the advantage over them.
Maybe the Tenbu Horin will not kill Silver Surfer but at least it will not allow him to run away or defend or attack so if Shaka succeeded using the Tenbu Horin he will win, as you know Silver Surfer doesn't have a 7th sense nor Athena Exclamation the two necessery things one need to counter Shaka's Tenbu Horin.
On the other hand Silver Surfer may kill Shaka by a chance but killing Shaka wouldn't do him anygood since the latter have the 8th sense and he can revive after death not only his body but reviving his cloth as well & the same techniques never work on a Saint twice.
I think Shaka will win this fight...
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 09:18 AM
Thanos has FTL reflexes, he can tag and detect people moving at FTL speeds.
DarkLordDragon
07-09-2006, 09:34 AM
Detecting people moving faster than light is different than fighting 2 moving at the speed of light and faster :) and about the reflexes if he have lightspeed he could fight like Saga/Shaka who could count from 1 to 100 in one second kekeke just kidding ^_~
BattousaiMS
07-09-2006, 09:39 AM
Surfer would win. Not only is he much faster then Shaka, but the guy can simply kill him by manipulating his genes or blasting him with a cosmic ray of his. He has been decleared the stongest US comic book hero of all time (followed by Sups in second and Hulk in third). Plus last I recalled the knights can't survive in space and SS is basically spends most his life in space.
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 09:40 AM
That was by Wizard magazine, who are incredibly biased.....
Rice Ball
07-09-2006, 09:43 AM
Surfer has never faught someone with so meny Utility effects.
Shaka has meny attacks that the surfer couldn't handle. Shaka can move at lightspeed so, speed will not be an issue. I doubt the surfer can pierce his shield too.
Tenbu Horin + Sence removal will be enough to combat the surfer.
DarkLordDragon
07-09-2006, 09:51 AM
Plus last I recalled the knights can't survive in space and SS is basically spends most his life in space.
Depends on the knight, Shaka was able to survive in the Abyss Of Time & Space and could return from there without his Gold Cloths, see episode 72 I think when he helps Ikki to come back...
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 11:05 AM
Wait, speed is not an issue because they both move faster than light?
From what I know of SS, at most they move at several hundred times the speed of light, Surfer can move at MILLIONS of times the speed of light.
Not to mention he could just trap them in some random dimension where they can't come back from.
Rice Ball
07-09-2006, 11:54 AM
Wait, speed is not an issue because they both move faster than light?
From what I know of SS, at most they move at several hundred times the speed of light, Surfer can move at MILLIONS of times the speed of light.
Not to mention he could just trap them in some random dimension where they can't come back from.
His travel speed and combat speed are VERY different, sure we've seen his attempt to snatch the IG from Thanos where he moves at a massive speed. But we've never seen him fight at that speed, besides he only moves at that speed with his board. If he could react himself at that speed, he wouldn't of missed the IG when he tried to grab it, Thanos had turned off his Cosmic awarness during this period so theres no real excuse for him missing :P
Shaka can teleport himself, through different dimensions too and also transport others.
Tenbu Horin is an instant ability that holds the enemy, unable to attack or defend they are completely at Shaka's mercy. This hold was only broken once, the force of the Big Bang was used againt him which broke the Tenbu Horin (it killed Shaka or Semi killed him, you can't truely kill someone with the 8th sence).
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 12:06 PM
Thanos dodged it because he has FTL reflexes, and as for Surfer not using combat speed, have you seen his fight with Deathurge for example?
And you don't need to kill someone to beat them, just like I said, trap him in some random dimension or suck out all of his energy.
Rice Ball
07-09-2006, 01:48 PM
Thanos dodged it because he has FTL reflexes, and as for Surfer not using combat speed, have you seen his fight with Deathurge for example?
Deathurge using his ski's like surfer was using his board, more like a race then a battle :)
FTL reflexes? Faster than Lightspeed? I disagree here sorry, for example earlyer in that comic he was meleeing with Captain America and cheated in order to cancel the captains fast reflexs.
And you don't need to kill someone to beat them, just like I said, trap him in some random dimension or suck out all of his energy
Thats great and all, my point wasn't that Shaka was unkillable, I don't see how any of Surfers attacks can get through Shaka's shield. I also don't see how he will counter Tenbu Horin.
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 03:18 PM
He doesn't have to counter it, he just has to attack first.
Not to mention he has cosmic senses that would still work even if his normal senses were taken away.
DarkLordDragon
07-09-2006, 04:27 PM
And you don't need to kill someone to beat them, just like I said, trap him in some random dimension or suck out all of his energy.
I am telling you, Shaka was sent to place beyond time and space, the Abyss Of Time & Space and he was able to return from there unharmed. And if you kill Shaka and destroy his body you need to seal his soul before reviving, I never saw Silver Surfer having a sealing powers that match the 6 gods who sealed the Gold Saints in the 5th movie.
Not to mention he has cosmic senses that would still work even if his normal senses were taken away.
If Silver Surfer does have a brain and his body functions according to the singals from the brain he will die because Shaka can also destroy the brain and remove the sixth's sense as well. I don't think the Cosmic Senses works as the 7th sense, it gives him a powerup but I don't think it works as substitute for the brain and the normal senses.
Shaka in Episode G against the second Giant he was able to turn the flames into flowers, this is not a normal illusions you see n_n it's close to be a reality-thing but I am not going to use it because I am not aware what exactly Shaka did to that Giant. Even if Surfer have the Cosmic Senses Shaka can also hide his cosmo/presence using the "Khan" that even people who have great control of the 6th sense couldn't sense him at all. A mind attack from Shaka would have a great effect on Surfer ^_^
Rice-Ball:
How come you forget me >_< the Odin vs Thanos thing :D hehehe just kidding man u must have been busy
see ya around
Rice Ball
07-09-2006, 04:37 PM
He doesn't have to counter it, he just has to attack first.
Not to mention he has cosmic senses that would still work even if his normal senses were taken away.
Silver Surfer Thinks about attacking Shaka.
Shaka opens his Eyes.
<Tenbu Horin happens>
Surfer is wondering what the f**k is going on.
You must of missed the part where i said Tenbu Horin was an instant attack. Not that you've proved Surfer is faster than Shaka...
As DarkLordDragon said, Shaka was able to also destroy the Sixth Sence.
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 04:48 PM
And?
The Surfer's brain is not a normal brain, it is composed of cosmic energy, which is a primeval force that exists on multiple planes of reality.
Not to mention Surfer could just go back in time to before Shaka got the 6th/7th/8th/etc. sense and kill him then.
DarkLordDragon
07-09-2006, 04:56 PM
Well I don't know, if Surfer have the ability to go back in time with his own powers then yeah he will kill Shaka when he was infant but how would he be able to do so? I never saw Surfer to go back in time? as for his brain well Surfer was human and he got special powers, he still got his human senses and the proof he remember his past life so still the brain will be effected. Either way if Shaka used the Tenbu Horin Silver Surfer is dead he don't have the Athena Exclamation and he can't attack or run away but if he got the ability to go back in time yeah he will probably win.
Shaka has bin reduced to nothing and still came back to life Twice. He is able to cross dimensions and will himself back to existence. Silver Surfer would need the ability to destroy his vary spirit and soul along with his body to permanently defeat him.
Oh as for matter transmutation. Well Apollo attempted to alter reality, but Seiya was able to defend against him because of his Cosmo power.
Seiya - “With my cosmo power I to wield the power of creation“.
Reality altering >>>>matter transmutation.
Hell Khan is Shaka’s will, With it, he can create barriers or take control of other objects. He did so with Shun’s Chains who are said to obey only Shun. I wonder if Khan would work on Silver Suffers Board.
With that said above I wonder if Cosmo power or Khan can protect him of matter transmutation.
Then there is Rikudo Rinne, it extracts the soul/spirit of his opponent and seals it in one of the 6 regions of hell.
Then there is Tenbu Horin. It can seal ESP (or Sixth Sense along with the other 5 senses). It also shuts down brain activity. No more Cosmic Awareness, plus a vegetable like state. Tenbu Horin is truly a broken technique.
I’m changing my Vote. Blood lust mode does not need to be applied to Shaka, he is vary unmerciful character.
Rice Ball
07-09-2006, 05:06 PM
And?
The Surfer's brain is not a normal brain, it is composed of cosmic energy, which is a primeval force that exists on multiple planes of reality.
And what? Surfer hasn't been shown to have a super fast reaction time.
Still waiting on various bits from you.
Not to mention Surfer could just go back in time to before Shaka got the 6th/7th/8th/etc. sense and kill him then.
Show Scan of Surfer time traveling back 20 years or more using his own powers and it taking less than a nano second.
If you want to use time travel, then it could be said Dr Doom/Thanos/Kang could kill Galactus with a single finger. Pretty poor last resort there.
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 05:17 PM
I don't have a scan, but there is an issue in SS v.1 where he battles a being known only as "The Overlord" and resorts to travelling back in time to defeat him.
As for reaction times, he would need them in order to fly at millions of times lightspeed at enemies and not crash into stuff.
Speed Blitzing Shaka does not mean instant KO.
Shaka is always in his protective barrier meditating. If SS attempts to speed Blitz Shaka he would just crash into his barrier. Or if he gets close to him, he gets trapped by the Palm of Buddha.
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 05:54 PM
And how strong is the barrier?
It tanked
Diamond Dust A Freezing attack (close to absolute Zero.)
Excalibur - the sword that can cut just about anything, and can counter a demsion slashing sword.
Galactic Explosion - an energy attack which is said to be equal in destructive force to an Exploding Galaxy.
So yeah that barrier is vary durable.
superbatman86
07-09-2006, 09:30 PM
Surfer turns him into a grapefruit.There fight over.
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 09:43 PM
It tanked
Diamond Dust A Freezing attack (close to absolute Zero.)
Excalibur - the sword that can cut just about anything, and can counter a demsion slashing sword.
Galactic Explosion - an energy attack which is said to be equal in destructive force to an Exploding Galaxy.
So yeah that barrier is vary durable.
Sounds like it might be a problem.
However, Surfer could warp space and attack directly inside of the barrier through a wormhole.
Surfer turns him into a grapefruit.There fight over.
Apollo could not overwrite reality (as in wipe the Saints out of existence), And he altered reality at a planetary level. What makes you think Silver Surfer can succeed over Apollo?
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 09:49 PM
Surfer has altered reality at solar - system levels (for example, creating and destroying solar - system spanning black holes from nothing).
Sounds like it might be a problem.
However, Surfer could warp space and attack directly inside of the barrier through a wormhole.
Then it comes down to who can kill who faster by passing their defenses, (as in not using melee attacks).
Shaka can Stop Surfer dead in its tracks with Tenbu Horin. He can neither defend or attack while his 6 senses are being removed, living him brain dead in the process.
Or
Rikudo Rinne, can seal his soul in hell, similar to how Adam Warlock Seals souls in his gem. Only Shaka has no draw backs.
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 09:55 PM
Surfer has been to Hell multiple times, his soul was so pure that it caused the devil (Mephisto) to be disgusted and he couldn't stand being near him, so he threw him out.
(BTW even if it seems like it, I am not a biased comic fanboy, even though I usually root for the comic character in a fight. To compare, I know some people on another site who think Professor X could kill L-sama because, and I quote, "She has never taken a mental attack that powerful before".)
Surfer has altered reality at solar - system levels (for example, creating and destroying solar - system spanning black holes from nothing).
Well Apollo only wanted to wipe out existence on Earth. But their powers far extend beyond planetary. Look at Hades, He moved planets with a thought.
Kanon Gold Saint of Gemini destroyed several planets upon detonating his Cosmo Power as a last ditch effort kill Radamanthys in Outer Space. (this feat was with out wearing his armor)
Surfer has been to Hell multiple times, his soul was so pure that it caused the devil (Mephisto) to be disgusted and he couldn't stand being near him, so he threw him out.
(BTW even if it seems like it, I am not a biased comic fanboy, even though I usually root for the comic character in a fight. To compare, I know some people on another site who think Professor X could kill L-sama because, and I quote, "She has never taken a mental attack that powerful before".)
Well this hell (because there are several version of hell In Saint Seiya) is in Buddha realm or version. So I think its going to be different to the time he was thrown out by Mesphito.
Another version of Hell is Govern by Hades (just using him as an example)
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 09:58 PM
If you want to compare the deeds of their superiors, the Surfer's former master, Galactus, once teleported an entire galaxy across the universe (while he was severely weakened).
If you want to compare the deeds of their superiors, the Surfer's former master, Galactus, once teleported an entire galaxy across the universe (while he was severely weakened).
No I’m not compared deeds to its master and so.
Simply stating why I think Matter transmutation or reality warping wouldn’t work.
A - stronger Character then Surfer attempted to warp reality, it didn’t work simply because Saints Cosmo power itself is the power of creation (the left over power of the big bang).
B - Khan the will of Shaka can be used to override matter transmutation. He did so by turning the Lava a Titan created into flowers.
Speed Blitzing Wouldn’t work, simply because of his barrier followed up by technique.
Here is another Broken Techinque, Shaka can destroy spirits, Souls, and demons with a single technique.
Tenkuuhaja Chimmimoryo
If Surfer was to have his soul extracted, Shaka can follow up and end the match by crushing his vary soul.
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 10:24 PM
The power behind the Big Bang in Marvel is known as the Power Primordial, and it is what empowers the Elders of the Universe, such as Champion, yet Surfer and other Heralds have defeated Champion and his ilk.
The Power Cosmic posessed by Galactus and his Heralds is beyond the Power Primordial, since it comes from the Cosmic Egg that is from the previous universe, older than the Big Bang.
Phenomenol
07-09-2006, 11:07 PM
Endless Mike I must commend you on a job well done! You are taking all of the debates by yourself!
Does it ever mention that Surfer has more than just the average 6 senses (Spiderman)? I was thinking that his power Cosmic would grant him Divine Sensing abilities (No signals coming from the brain) ala DBZ! Cause if he does I do not think that Shaka's technique will work.
Note: Sufer's willpower and spiritual strength provide him with a great deal of resistance to mind control.
Comic Book Guy
07-09-2006, 11:24 PM
Those who have the Power Cosmic should have some degree of Cosmic Awareness.
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 11:28 PM
Yes, Surfer has demonstrated this many times, but I have to inform you that there are many types of attacks that pure willpower will be unable to overcome.
Phenomenol
07-09-2006, 11:31 PM
Spirit power overcomes everything!
I want to know does Surfer have more than the regular 6 senses with his power cosmic?
Comic Book Guy
07-09-2006, 11:39 PM
Spirit power overcomes everything!
Not omnipotence, or nigh-omnipotence.
Phenomenol
07-09-2006, 11:47 PM
Of course, nothing God like! but hell who know Spirit power allows ceratin characters to will themselves back to life! In the manga and anime universe Spirit/Ki is very potent.
Endless Mike
07-09-2006, 11:53 PM
Yes, he is able to sense things travelling faster than light and things many light - years away, and can sense things in other dimensions, as well as things in different times (giving him a version of precognition). Cosmic Awareness is a useful power.
Phenomenol
07-10-2006, 12:03 AM
Yes, he is able to sense things travelling faster than light and things many light - years away, and can sense things in other dimensions, as well as things in different times (giving him a version of precognition). Cosmic Awareness is a useful power.
This means that Shaka's Tenbu Horin will not stop Silver Surfer because he has divine senses(Signals not from the brain).
Endless Mike
07-10-2006, 12:09 AM
Yet the troubling part is the fact that the Tenbu Horin can shut down/destroy the brain, even if it is not a normal brain.
My winning strategy for Surfer mostly revolves around him attacking before Shaka can activate Tenbu Horin.
Phenomenol
07-10-2006, 12:13 AM
Yet the troubling part is the fact that the Tenbu Horin can shut down/destroy the brain, even if it is not a normal brain.
I doubt that! You have to realize Saint Seiya Tenbu Horin only shuts down 6 signals that come from the brain! Surfer has divine senses he is not a normal human. Nor was it stated that Tenbu Horin works on a non human brain. Saints are human's with supernatural abilities!
My winning strategy for Surfer mostly revolves around him attacking before Shaka can activate Tenbu Horin.
I think Surfer can overcome that with his power cosmic. Shaka is powerful though.
Endless Mike
07-10-2006, 12:16 AM
Well I haven't actually read or watched much of the series, I'm going mostly on the info in the Power Directory, Wikipedia, and the info in this and various other threads.
Phenomenol
07-10-2006, 12:30 AM
Well here is some of Shaka's abilities..
Shaka vs. ikki! Shaka at the end uses Tenbu Horin it seems very beatable! I doubt that will work on Surfer Note: In Spanish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyyX-Fk2t64&search=Shaka%20episode%2057
Here is Shaka vs. Saga ,Camus and Shura! Jaopanese
Note not the whole fight but just an example of some of his skills.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV-Un5YQ7bo&search=Shaka%20vs.%20Shura
Saint Seiya pimping project.
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=112313
The Saint Seiya FC In conjuction with the Latinos FC will start making English Scanlation and Translation of the entire Saint Seiya manga overlooked by several members including myself.
Members participating in the Translations and Scanlations
Id
The Emperor
k1nj3
Σειρήνα
superbatman86
07-10-2006, 12:51 AM
Apollo could not overwrite reality (as in wipe the Saints out of existence), And he altered reality at a planetary level. What makes you think Silver Surfer can succeed over Apollo?Because he's reworking his molecules into something else not altering reality.
Because he's reworking his molecules into something else not altering reality.
Matter transmutation is still not going to be effective.
Shaka willed his body and his armor back into existence.
Transformed Lava into Flowers…I seriously doubt Silver Surfer can do a thing to Shaka with matter transmutation.
The power behind the Big Bang in Marvel is known as the Power Primordial, and it is what empowers the Elders of the Universe, such as Champion, yet Surfer and other Heralds have defeated Champion and his ilk.
The Power Cosmic posessed by Galactus and his Heralds is beyond the Power Primordial, since it comes from the Cosmic Egg that is from the previous universe, older than the Big Bang.
I have to disagree. The Cosmic Egg was made up of Primordial Matter. When the Big Bang was set off, The Cosmic Egg along with the Primordial Matter was Exploded outwards, eventually the matter that was scattered off would become planets, stars etc…
Galactus is superior to the Elders, Watchers simply because the Phoenix force chose Galactus to become a fundamental part of the Universe, more so then the Elders himself.
So Big Bang =/= Primordial Matter in Marvel Universe.
You can check out these links if you want to know how I came up with my answer.
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/681/ohotmuff05streetsamuraidcp103t.jpg
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=94477
Now what I want to know is how Power Of Cosmic>>>>Big Bang?
Phenomenol
07-10-2006, 01:34 AM
Matter transmutation is still not going to be effective.
Shaka willed his body and his armor back into existence.
Transformed Lava into Flowers…I seriously doubt Silver Surfer can do a thing to Shaka with matter transmutation.
Shaka did not really die he was just banished to another world right? so that would not be willibng yourself back into existence.
The Silver Surfer once threatened The Gladiator by saying this. "I could easily defeat you, I know your weakness. A simple wave of my hand and it would be done". The Silver Surfer could and probably would detect that weakness in Shaka.
Shaka did not really die he was just banished to another world right? so that would not be willibng yourself back into existence.
The Silver Surfer once threatened The Gladiator by saying this. "I could easily defeat you, I know your weakness. A simple wave of my hand and it would be done". The Silver Surfer could and probably would detect that weakness in Shaka.
Huh? Um no.
Shaka body was completely destyoed when Ikky raised his Cosmo Power to an infinat level and then detonated killing both in the process. Nothing was left but his armor.
He then willed himself back into existence.
Second time, Shaka body and Armor was reduced to nothing from taking Athena Exclamation head on (an attack that equals the destructive force of the big bang). He then willed himself and armor back into existence.
And what weakness? Shaka does not posses any weakness like Gladiator and his weakness towards radiation, so how is that the same?
Why are you asking these question’s I thought you read Saint Seiya and knew all this?
Phenomenol
07-10-2006, 01:47 AM
Huh? Um no.
Shaka body was completely destyoed when Ikky raised his Cosmo Power to an infinat level and then detonated killing both in the process. Nothing was left but his armor.
He then willed himself back into existence.
Second time, Shaka body and Armor was reduced to nothing from taking Athena Exclamation head on (an attack that equals the destructive force of the big bang). He then willed himself and armor back into existence.
And what weakness? Shaka does not posses any weakness like Gladiator and his weakness towards radiation, so how is that the same?
Why are you asking these question’s I thought you read Saint Seiya and knew all this?
I already knew all of this! I was asking if Surfer could detect any weakness in Shaka and maybe transmute his molecules?
I am asking the questions about Surfer not Shaka.:notrust
I already knew all of this! I was asking if Surfer could detect any weakness in Shaka and maybe transmute his molecules?
I am asking the questions about Surfer not Shaka.:notrust
Ok so what weakness woul Surfer detect?
Rice Ball
07-10-2006, 04:17 AM
Well he can't detect a weakness that isn't there.
Do you even know what Gladiator's weakness is? Its his Confidence, surfer knew this from a previous meeting. And the funny thing was by saying that line he had already destroyed Gladiators confidance and weakened him :)
He used Tenbu Horin on some of the stronest Psychics of the SS universe, they couldn't do anything to resist it.
Endless Mike
07-10-2006, 09:33 PM
Power Cosmic is greater than the Power Primordial not only because it existed beforehand, but because it has greater feats.
For example, have you read the Black Celestial Saga?
Power Cosmic is greater than the Power Primordial not only because it existed beforehand, but because it has greater feats.
For example, have you read the Black Celestial Saga?
I haven’t read Black Celestial Saga
But I don’t understand how Power Primordial is greater then Power of Cosmic or How Power Primordial = Big Bang (Big Crunch).
Endless Mike
07-10-2006, 10:21 PM
The Power Primordial is the left - over energy from the Big Bang, it's what the Elders of the Universe use for their power.
The Power Cosmic existed in the previous universe, before the Big Bang.
The Power Primordial is the left - over energy from the Big Bang, it's what the Elders of the Universe use for their power.
The Power Cosmic existed in the previous universe, before the Big Bang.
Well simply because one is older means greater?
And from what I understand, Marvel Universe makes a vary clear distinction between Big Bang and Primordial Power.
Endless Mike
07-10-2006, 10:29 PM
No, the Power Primordial is defined as the power remaining from the Big Bang.
Unless that's been retconned and I didn't know....
No, the Power Primordial is defined as the power remaining from the Big Bang.
Unless that's been retconned and I didn't know....
As off 2005 yes its bin changed.
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/681/ohotmuff05streetsamuraidcp103t.jpg
Endless Mike
07-10-2006, 10:40 PM
Yeah, I've read that profile, but it doesn't say anything about the Power Primordial.
Cosmic Egg, a sphere of disorganized compact primordial matter.
Big Crunch is referred as Big Bang.
Or flat out it states Big Bang.
Primordial Matter is held together by the New Cosmic Egg. Primordial is referred as matter.
And the new energy that Galactus receives is power of cosmic.
With Power of Cosmic or Power of Primordial wont save you from dieing in the next big bang (or Big Crunch).
Pheniex Force Chooses who is saved, and who dies.
Pheoinx Force sets of Big Bang’s, Creates Cosmic Eggs.
And well PF chooses who is going to Be fundamental to the Universe at the Scale of Galactus ware he receives large portions of Power of Cosmic or Minor Cosmic entities such as the Elders reciving smaller portions of power known as Power or Primordial.
Endless Mike
07-10-2006, 11:26 PM
"Primordial matter" isn't the same as the "Power Primordial".
It's just a description.
The Power Cosmic in the 616 universe originates from the cosmic egg, which was the remnants of the previous universe's Eternity.
"Primordial matter" isn't the same as the "Power Primordial".
It's just a description.
The Power Cosmic in the 616 universe originates from the cosmic egg, which was the remnants of the previous universe's Eternity.
Ok but if the Cosmic Egg is made up of Primordial matter…then doesn’t Power of Cosmic originate from Primordial matter as well?
Power of Cosmic, Cosmic Egg, Primordial Matter, Power of Primordial…They all seem to be related to each other. But it makes a clear destitution.
Power of Cosmic =/= Big Bang
Cosmic Egg =/= Big Bang
Primordial Power =/= Big Bang
Big Crunch =/= Big Bang (Well not exactly from what I get Big Crunch is the Events that follow the Detonation of the Big Bang, the explosion of the New Cosmic Egg, Destruction of the old Cosmic Egg, and Spreading Primordial matter to later become the New Universe)
Endless Mike
07-11-2006, 12:58 AM
The way I read is that the Power Primordial comes from the Big Bang (and is very similar to the power the Saints use) while the Power Cosmic comes from the previous universe's Eternity (the Cosmic Egg) which was around before the Big Bang.
Power Cosmic is usually portrayed as greater than Power Primordial, (for example how Galactus defeated all the Elders of the Universe when they plotted to kill him).
superbatman86
07-11-2006, 02:23 AM
The way I read is that the Power Primordial comes from the Big Bang (and is very similar to the power the Saints use) while the Power Cosmic comes from the previous universe's Eternity (the Cosmic Egg) which was around before the Big Bang.
Power Cosmic is usually portrayed as greater than Power Primordial, (for example how Galactus defeated all the Elders of the Universe when they plotted to kill him).Your right.Power Cosmic is what all abstracts weild which is why it's stronger than power primordial which is the power left over from the big bang.And what's stopping Surfer from simply absorbing all of Shaka's energy?Since I'm assuming this an all out fight Surfer could take away all Shaka's higher brain functions so he can't will himself back from death.I can't believe people are actually arguing this when surfer is faster,more powerful,can do anything Shaka can do and more and has more experience doing it.
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