Harry Potter vs Gandalf

[Kakashu]

Who would win in a fight? Harry or Gandolf?

[Suzumebachi]

Gandolf wins.

[Tsuuga]

Gandalf wins.

[Hangatýr]

It's Gandalf, idiot.

Gandalf'd win too easily.

[Kakashu]

Well duh!!! That's why I voted for him. I just wanted to see what other people would say.

[Mojim]

Gandalf wins...'nuff said :)

[Anemone]

Gandalf wins this one!
(sorry Harry) :scry

[Kakashu]

Harry isn't as strong as everyone thinks, at least, not against Gandolf.

[escamoh]

Gandalf wins....

But I never saw him do anything like aparating...maybe Harry has a chance.

[Ryuichi]

Mithrandir wins.

[Kakashu]

Gandalf wins....

But I never saw him do anything like aparating...maybe Harry has a chance.

Well, Gandolf has so many powers that no body has ever seen, so he basically has the cat in the back.

[Delta Shell]

Why do you keep saying Gandolf dude?

Anyway, fuck Harry Potter. Gandalf wins, that was awesome how he fought that Balrog.

[Kakashu]

Hey, you double posted!!!

[Hangatýr]

Hey, you double posted!!!
And you're a complete idiot, big whoop.

[Mojim]

Anyway, fuck Harry Potter.
Lol...i like this one :laugh
Anyway,Harry has a wand stick that can be easily broke and a stupid broom stick?!! What he's going to do with it? Sweep dusts Gandalf to death? :huh

As for Gandalf,he has a powerful wand stick and much bigger than Harry's.He knows more magic and powerful ones.He also has a sword :).He has a speedy horse called Shadowfax and last thing he has an Eagle, a really big one :)

Eagle>>>>>>>>>>>Broom stick smile-big

[Kakashu]

Totally, Harry's ass would get kicked so bad.

[escamoh]

Well, Gandolf has so many powers that no body has ever seen, so he basically has the cat in the back.

Then what was the point of this fight?

[Mojim]

Then what was the point of this fight?
Just for fun.Love seeing Harry's ass got whoop really bad smile-big

[Hangatýr]

Just for fun.Love seeing Harry's ass got whoop really bad smile-big
Malasians, honestly.

[FireEel]

This is not a fair fight, we shoud allow Ginny to help Harry.

And if Ginny comes, its automatically KO, because even Gandalf cannot stand up to the power of the bat bogey hex!!!

[Hype]

Gandalf wins end of story.

[Tsukiyomi]

I haven't really seen Gandalf do anything that compares to the powers shown in the HP universe. The most impressive thing Gandalf did was fight the Balrog. HP wizards fight demons and dragons on a regular basis.

It seems to me many people are going off the LoTR fandom and voting based off what powers Gandalf may have.

[Kakashu]

Not necessarily, if you read the LOTR books and other side books, it tells you more about what Gandalf can do.

[Tsukiyomi]

Not necessarily, if you read the LOTR books and other side books, it tells you more about what Gandalf can do.

I've read LoTR, the Hobbit and the Silmarillion, what did I miss that makes Gandalf really all that powerful?

[*uzumaki-naruto*]

Gandalf due to harry potter not being a very talented wizard and he lacks spells and knowledge compared to gandalf. by the way are we talking about gandalf the grey or gandalf the white?

[Gaelek_13]

Gandalf the Grey or Gandalf the White?

Not that it matters, either one of them would rape Harry Potter with their staffs like a bitch.

[Hangatýr]

Gandalf due to harry potter not being a very talented wizard and he lacks spells and knowledge compared to gandalf. by the way are we talking about gandalf the grey or gandalf the white?
You haven't read HP properly, have ye?

Harry is a talented wizard, he has mastered many more spells than mosts witches and wizards beyond his age (Fred commenting that most Ministry wizards can't even do a decent shield charm), has been able to produce a coporeal Patronus at age thirteen, a feat which even impressed a part of the Wizengamot at age fifteen at his hearing and has appeared to be a decent duelist versus several wizards, including Voldemort.

That said, I still think that Gandalf'd win over most of the HP world, though I may very well be mistaken.

[Tsukiyomi]

One has to wonder if expelliarmus would work with Gandalf and his staff, if so Harry could take it from him in an instant.

Are we talking about Harry at the end of the most recent book or in his prime?

[Hangatýr]

Prime is only speculation when concerning Harry, same with Gandalf's powers.

Gandalf the Grey vs. Dumbledore Prime'd be a more even match, although Dumbledore Prime'd mostly speculation, albeit less than that of Harry.

[Tsukiyomi]

*fixed thread spelling*

Prime is only speculation when concerning Harry, same with Gandalf's powers.

Gandalf the Grey vs. Dumbledore Prime'd be a more even match, although Dumbledore Prime'd mostly speculation, albeit less than that of Harry.
In his prime Harry will be the most powerful wizard of all time, since he'll have killed Voldemort (especially impressive considering Harry's young age).

[Hangatýr]

In his prime Harry will be the most powerful wizard of all time, since he'll have killed Voldemort (especially impressive considering Harry's young age).
Voldemort isn't the most powerful wizard of all time, though. He's the most powerful dark wizard in a century. And how can you be so sure that he'll kill Voldemort?

Harry will defeat Voldemort because said dark wizard followed part of a prophecy, handing Harry weapons to defeat him, not because of Harry's extraordinairy wizarding talents, but love. Harry will become very powerful if he lives, I'm sure of that, but I doubt he'll ever surpass Dumbledore, whom had a very early headstart, if we go by the words of madam Marchbanks in book 5.

[Tsukiyomi]

Voldemort isn't the most powerful wizard of all time, though. He's the most powerful dark wizard in a century. And how can you be so sure that he'll kill Voldemort?

Voldemort is the most powerful wizard of all time. Hence why he is the most feared. There have been dark wizards before as evil as Voldemort, but none are so feared as he is. People can't even speak his name.

He may have been said to fear dumbledore (a claim he has denied), but even Dumbledore admitted in the first book Voldemort had power he would never have.

Voldemort gained a degree of immortality and control over the dark races of the world (like the dementors). You'll notice that during his reign the entire wizarding community lived in constant terror of him.

The prophecy also says that only Harry can kill Voldemort, meaning that if Harry fails Voldemort will probably end up living forever as dark lord of the world.

Harry will defeat Voldemort because said dark wizard followed part of a prophecy, handing Harry weapons to defeat him, not because of Harry's extraordinairy wizarding talents, but love. Harry will become very powerful if he lives, I'm sure of that, but I doubt he'll ever surpass Dumbledore, whom had a very early headstart, if we go by the words of madam Marchbanks in book 5.

Voldemort was looking for a prophecy such as that. He knew one day someone would rise with the power to defeat him, also he didn't "give harry weapons to defeat him", he marked Harry as his equal.

Harry at his very young age was able to stalemate the most powerful wizard in the world. Not to mention that he has shown himself to possess extraordinary power when it comes to defense against the dark arts, so don't count his talen out just yet.

If Harry surpasses Voldemort he'll have surpassed Dumbledore and as such be the worlds most powerful wizard.

[*uzumaki-naruto*]

You haven't read HP properly, have ye?

Harry is a talented wizard, he has mastered many more spells than mosts witches and wizards beyond his age (Fred commenting that most Ministry wizards can't even do a decent shield charm), has been able to produce a coporeal Patronus at age thirteen, a feat which even impressed a part of the Wizengamot at age fifteen at his hearing and has appeared to be a decent duelist versus several wizards, including Voldemort.

That said, I still think that Gandalf'd win over most of the HP world, though I may very well be mistaken.

I have read harry potter but u forget that during dumbledore's secret army club most of the members learn how to perform coporeal patronous and compared to most wizards and his dad he is a let down. Hermonie normally gets him out of his problems with the help of ron so if he is so great why can't he do it by himself cause if it was gandalf he could do it by himself. Naruto learned a few of Snapes old spells weldon but how is this going to be against the greatest wizard of all time voldermort who cheated death. Harry potter in every book misses death barley or his friends help him out or a good character dies because of him this is not called a good wizard. And with Harry potter killing voldermort that might not be true because it could also be neville longbottom.

[Hangatýr]

@Tsukiyomi:

Voldemort is the most powerful wizard of all time. Hence why he is the most feared. There have been dark wizards before as evil as Voldemort, but none are so feared as he is. People can't even speak his name.

People fear to speak his name because he is the most recent powerful dark wizard, not because he is the most powerful ever. He is the most powerful of current times, though.

He may have been said to fear dumbledore (a claim he has denied), but even Dumbledore admitted in the first book Voldemort had power he would never have.

And to which McGonnagal replied that Dumbledore DID infact have the power to do what Voldemort has done, but is simply too noble to do so.

Voldemort gained a degree of immortality and control over the dark races of the world (like the dementors). You'll notice that during his reign the entire wizarding community lived in constant terror of him.

Control, hardly. Influence most certainly, although I do not know if it's across the world, as the HP books focus mainly on the UK. For one, the Wizarding community is relatively small, two, Voldemort and his followers assasinated individuals with the utmost stealth, blackmailed, threatened, imperiused, killed and the lot to inspire that fear, it's not just because of his magical power.

The prophecy also says that only Harry can kill Voldemort, meaning that if Harry fails Voldemort will probably end up living forever as dark lord of the world.

No, the prophecy states that Harry is destined to destroy Voldemort, but more precisely it states that neither can live while the other does, meaning that Voldemort is also able to kill Harry. But think of it this way, what if neither had ever heard of the prophecy? Others may have tried to kill Voldemort and succeeded, regardless of his Horcruxes.

Voldemort was looking for a prophecy such as that. He knew one day someone would rise with the power to defeat him, also he didn't "give harry weapons to defeat him", he marked Harry as his equal.

He didn't search for it. His servant at the time, Severus Snape listened at the door of Dumbledore interviewing a young Trelawny, and overhearing part of the prophecy before Aberforth chucked him out, but Snape still informed his master of what he had heard. And he DID give Harry weapons to defeat, as stated by Dumbledore, such as the ability of Parselmouth, the hatred Harry feels because of Voldemort murdering his parents, and the protection that Voldemort caused when he killed Lily.

Harry at his very young age was able to stalemate the most powerful wizard in the world. Not to mention that he has shown himself to possess extraordinary power when it comes to defense against the dark arts, so don't count his talen out just yet.

Not saying Harry is done for, but there is a very big chance. Yes, he was able to stalemate, but remember; this was because the two cores of their wands share the tailfeather of the same phoenix, and when forcefully pitted against each other Priori Incantatum occurred, which saved Harry's life, although his own abilities were a big part of his survival.

If Harry surpasses Voldemort he'll have surpassed Dumbledore and as such be the worlds most powerful wizard.

I doubt this A>B, B>C and thus A>C works. Dumbledore had, as stated by Marchbanks when she tested Dumbledore during his NEWTs
"...did things with a wand I've never seen before...", which definitely says something about Dumbledore.

Just killing Voldemort wouldn't mean Harry has surpassed Dumbledore, whom still knew many more spells, incantations and the lot than Harry does, had extreme magic powers which Voldemort DID fear. Dumbledore could've killed Voldemort, but he didn't, an example being in the fight at the end of OotP, in which Voldemort said "You do not wish to kill me, Dumbledore?!" To which Dumbledore replied "We both know there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom."

-----------------------------------------
@*uzamaki-naruto*:

I have read harry potter but u forget that during dumbledore's secret army club most of the members learn how to perform coporeal patronous.

Read it more clearly, he was teaching them the Patronus, a coporeal patronus is one that takes a solid form, which only one or two did. Furthermore, Harry did it at age 13.

and compared to most wizards and his dad he is a let down.

Explain this to me, if you will. Keep in mind that Harry is still not of age.

Hermonie normally gets him out of his problems with the help of ron so if he is so great why can't he do it by himself cause if it was gandalf he could do it by himself.

He did not go up against Voldemort many a times by himself? He has not escaped Death Eaters with out the help of his friends?

Naruto learned a few of Snapes old spells weldon but how is this going to be against the greatest wizard of all time voldermort who cheated death.

Naruto? And yes, he learned a few of Snape's spells, your point being? He knows more spells than merely those. And Voldemort is the greatest dark wizard of CURRENT TIME, and others have cheated death, or else teenage Voldemort would not have asked about the concept of Horcruxes.

Harry potter in every book misses death barley or his friends help him out or a good character dies because of him this is not called a good wizard.

Harry is not omnipotent, these things happen, or are you going to tell me that you can get out of any situation, unscathed, and having saved everything and everyone?

And with Harry potter killing voldermort that might not be true because it could also be neville longbottom.

Read the books more thoroughly, Voldemort chose Harry, not Neville.

[Endless Mike]

Gandalf is immortal, in case you didn't know.

[Hangatýr]

Gandalf is immortal, in case you didn't know.
And battles end when one of two is disabled, or else Spider-man would have never beaten Logan.

[Endless Mike]

And Gandalf is going to get disabled.... how?

As for those underrating the Balrog fight, if you actually read the book you will find that the results of the fight destroyed half of a mountain (a real mountain, as in the kind we saw in the movies, not a big rock that most people like to exaggerate and call it a mountain).

[Hangatýr]

And Gandalf is going to get disabled.... how?

As for those underrating the Balrog fight, if you actually read the book you will find that the results of the fight destroyed half of a mountain (a real mountain, as in the kind we saw in the movies, not a big rock that most people like to exaggerate and call it a mountain).
I have read the books, although it's been a while.

If Gandalf gets stunned somehow, knocked out, etc, the battle will be in Harry's favour. I don't know if Gandalf can counter spells like Stupefy, Petrificus Totalus and such, he probably can with enough time, but don't forget that he's going against an unknown form of magic. Same goes for Harry, though.

[BakaKage]

I haven't really seen Gandalf do anything that compares to the powers shown in the HP universe. The most impressive thing Gandalf did was fight the Balrog. HP wizards fight demons and dragons on a regular basis.

It seems to me many people are going off the LoTR fandom and voting based off what powers Gandalf may have.

ok I'm gonna contribute to this thread, but be warned I will get extremely nerdy.

Well the thing is, in LOTR Gandalf is in a plot-induced restraint. Also the nature of "magic" in LOTR is different from HP. LOTR doesn't have fireballs, lightning bolts and curses. Magic is basically shown in very subtle terms, i.e. elven blades glowing blue when orcs are near, the ability to command elements/weather, the ability of the ringwraiths to bring despair to anyone's heart.
That being said, we do know Gandalf has offensive magic strong enough to destory a bridge. But the only real gauge of his power is him defeating a Balrog.
First of all a Balrog could take any HP monster/dragon and eat it for breakfast. Balrogs are the elite of the elite of Morgoth's (Sauron's master) army and he had dragons too which are probably twice the size of HP dragons. They were demi-gods before they were corrupted and can make any normal person go crazy with fear just by their presence.
"those spirits who first adhered to him in the days of his splendour, and became most like him in his corruption: their hearts were of fire, but they were cloaked in darkness, and terror went before them; they had whips of flame. Balrogs they were named by Noldor in later days."
Gandalf fought the Balrog of Moria from the depths of the abyss they fell into to the peak of one of the Misty Mountains, they fought non-stop. Now let's take that in for a moment.

That being said, I say Gandalf wins.

[Hangatýr]

ok I'm gonna contribute to this thread, but be warned I will get extremely nerdy.

Well the thing is, in LOTR Gandalf is in a plot-induced restraint. Also the nature of "magic" in LOTR is different from HP. LOTR doesn't have fireballs, lightning bolts and curses. Magic is basically shown in very subtle terms, i.e. elven blades glowing blue when orcs are near, the ability to command elements/weather, the ability of the ringwraiths to bring despair to anyone's heart.
That being said, we do know Gandalf has offensive magic strong enough to destory a bridge. But the only real gauge of his power is him defeating a Balrog.
First of all a Balrog could take any HP monster/dragon and eat it for breakfast. Balrogs are the elite of the elite of Morgoth's (Sauron's master) army and he had dragons too which are probably twice the size of HP dragons. They were demi-gods before they were corrupted and can make any normal person go crazy with fear just by their presence.

Gandalf fought the Balrog of Moria from the depths of the abyss they fell into to the peak of one of the Misty Mountains, they fought non-stop. Now let's take that in for a moment.

That being said, I say Gandalf wins.

Hmm.. I see, I see. Well, I still think that Gandalf will win, especially reading this, but people underestimate HP character far too much.

[Tsukiyomi]

Please learn to use the quote system, otherwise quoting your posts is annoying as hell.

People fear to speak his name because he is the most recent powerful dark wizard, not because he is the most powerful ever. He is the most powerful of current times, though.
They feared to speak his name even a decade after he was dead. No one seems to fear any of the other dark wizards of the past, but they still were AFRAID to speak his name even after they thought he was dead.
And to which McGonnagal replied that Dumbledore DID infact have the power to do what Voldemort has done, but is simply too noble to do so.

And you take McGonnagal's word about Dumbledores power over Dumbledore himself who was a teacher when Voldemort was a student at Hogwarts (and was the one who brought him to Hogwarts) so he knows Voldemorts abilities quite well.

If you have two conflicting opinions on someones capabilities, you usually go with the opinion coming from the person themself.


Control, hardly. Influence most certainly, although I do not know if it's across the world, as the HP books focus mainly on the UK. For one, the Wizarding community is relatively small, two, Voldemort and his followers assasinated individuals with the utmost stealth, blackmailed, threatened, imperiused, killed and the lot to inspire that fear, it's not just because of his magical power.

So you're telling me if Voldemort walked out into the open that all the people there wouldn't flee in terror of him and his power? Come on dude.

No, the prophecy states that Harry is destined to destroy Voldemort, but more precisely it states that neither can live while the other does, meaning that Voldemort is also able to kill Harry. But think of it this way, what if neither had ever heard of the prophecy? Others may have tried to kill Voldemort and succeeded, regardless of his Horcruxes.

If anyone else was capable of killing Voldemort then the prophecy would be meaningless. Only harry is capable of doing it. Thats not the kind of thing mere knowledge of a prophecy can bring to reality, he can't suddenly be invincible because a prophecy told him he is.

Harry is the only one with the potential to defeat him.


He didn't search for it. His servant at the time, Severus Snape listened at the door of Dumbledore interviewing a young Trelawny, and overhearing part of the prophecy before Aberforth chucked him out, but Snape still informed his master of what he had heard. And he DID give Harry weapons to defeat, as stated by Dumbledore, such as the ability of Parselmouth, the hatred Harry feels because of Voldemort murdering his parents, and the protection that Voldemort caused when he killed Lily.

I know he didn't actively search for it, but he was on the lookout for it. He knew such a person would eventually come, thats why when he heard the prophecy he immediately believed it and sprung into action.

Harry loses that protection the second he turns 17, parseltoungue isn't going to help him at all in a fight with Voldemort and his hatred if anything is a weakness. Dumbledore said it was Harry's capacity for love, not hate that was his strength.

Not saying Harry is done for, but there is a very big chance. Yes, he was able to stalemate, but remember; this was because the two cores of their wands share the tailfeather of the same phoenix, and when forcefully pitted against each other Priori Incantatum occurred, which saved Harry's life, although his own abilities were a big part of his survival.

He still matched the worlds most powerful wizard using the worlds most destructive spell.

Voldemort is well aware of his own power and of that of Harry, yet he still views Harry as a legitimate threat to his life. He knows Harry has that level of potential for power.


I doubt this A>B, B>C and thus A>C works. Dumbledore had, as stated by Marchbanks when she tested Dumbledore during his NEWTs
"...did things with a wand I've never seen before...", which definitely says something about Dumbledore.

Just killing Voldemort wouldn't mean Harry has surpassed Dumbledore, whom still knew many more spells, incantations and the lot than Harry does, had extreme magic powers which Voldemort DID fear. Dumbledore could've killed Voldemort, but he didn't, an example being in the fight at the end of OotP, in which Voldemort said "You do not wish to kill me, Dumbledore?!" To which Dumbledore replied "We both know there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom."


Dumbledore took his NEWTs before Voldemort was even born, so any comments on his skills are meaningless when comparing him to Voldemort.

In terms of shear power a wizard as powerful as Voldemort is indeed beyond any other wizard, so someone surpassing him would then in turn be beyond any other wizard.

People have said Voldemort feared Dumbledore, but he himself has denied this. I think he respected Dumbledores power since Dumbledore was probably the strongest wizard he had ever known other than himself, but that doesn't mean he was afraid of him.

[Hangatýr]

Please learn to use the quote system, otherwise quoting your posts is annoying as hell.
There, I used quotation boxes, happy now? I just prefer using italics because it's faster, and the quoted posts appear in italic regardles.

They feared to speak his name even a decade after he was dead. No one seems to fear any of the other dark wizards of the past, but they still were AFRAID to speak his name even after they thought he was dead.
That's because the last Dark Lord before Voldemort was either defeated over a hundred years ago, or risen, don't know which, do know it involves a hundred years.

And you take McGonnagal's word about Dumbledores power over Dumbledore himself who was a teacher when Voldemort was a student at Hogwarts (and was the one who brought him to Hogwarts) so he knows Voldemorts abilities quite well.
Ever considered the fact that Dumbledore might just have been humble? His indication of blushing furiously might indicate that.

If you have two conflicting opinions on someones capabilities, you usually go with the opinion coming from the person themself.
True, but that's not always the case, and this may very well be one of them. Dark Arts are used for hurting others, Dumbledore defeated the Dark Wizard Grindelwald, do you really think he did this with only 'good' magic, such as protective spells and what not?

So you're telling me if Voldemort walked out into the open that all the people there wouldn't flee in terror of him and his power? Come on dude.
Why would Voldemort do that? And I said "not just because", quote me if I had stated that it was not part of it. Also, what if those he came out to were Muggles whom do not know of him or his deeds, they wouldn't flee because of his power, perhaps because of his appearance. It all depends on where he would appear, and there would be plenty who would attack him, as there have been plenty of murders done by him to people who did not go down calmly.

If anyone else was capable of killing Voldemort then the prophecy would be meaningless. Only harry is capable of doing it. Thats not the kind of thing mere knowledge of a prophecy can bring to reality, he can't suddenly be invincible because a prophecy told him he is.
The Prophecy itself is meaningless, it's only important when people act upon it. “But Harry, never forget that what the prophecy says is only significant because Voldemort made it so. I told you this at the end of last year. Voldemort singled you out as the person who would be most dangerous to him –and in doing so, he made you the person who would be most dangerous to him!”

“But it comes to the same— ”

“No, it doesn’t!” said Dumbledore, sounding impatient now. (…) “If Voldemort had never heard of the prophecy, would it have been fulfilled? Would it have meant anything? Of course not! Do you think every prophecy in the Hall of Prophecy has been fulfilled?”

“But,” said Harry, bewildered, “but last year, you said one of us would have to kill the other –”

“Harry, Harry, only because Voldemort made a grave error, and acted on Professor Trelawney’s words [i.e., the prophecy]! If Voldemort had never murdered your father, would he have imparted in you a furious desire for revenge? Of course not! (…) Voldemort himself created his worst enemy… (…) He heard the prophecy and he leapt into action, with the result that he (…) handpicked the man most likely to finish him…” (…)

“But, sir,” said Harry, making valiant efforts not to sound argumentative, “it all comes to the same thing, doesn’t it? I’ve got to try and kill him, or—”

“Got to?” said Dumbledore. “Of course you’ve got to! But not because of the prophecy! Because you, yourself, will never rest until you’ve tried! We both know it! Imagine, please, just for a moment, that you had never heard that prophecy! How would you feel about Voldemort now? Think!” (…)

“I’d want him finished,” said Harry quietly. “And I’d want to do it.”

“Of course you would!” cried Dumbledore. “You see, the prophecy does not mean you have to do anything! (…) In other words, you are free to choose your way, quite free to turn your back on the prophecy! But Voldemort continues to set store by the prophecy. He will continue to hunt you… which makes it certain, really, that –”

“That one of us is going to end up killing the other,” said Harry. “Yes.”

But he understood at last what Dumbledore had been trying to tell him. It was, he thought, the difference between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to the death and walking into the arena with your head held high. Some people, perhaps, would say that there was little to choose between the two ways, but Dumbledore knew –and so do I, thought Harry, with a rush of fierce pride, and so did my parents –that there was all the difference in the world. Make any points clear?

Harry is the only one with the potential to defeat him.
Not the only one, but yes, he does have the potential, and very good reasons too, the Prophecy being only one.

I know he didn't actively search for it, but he was on the lookout for it. He knew such a person would eventually come, thats why when he heard the prophecy he immediately believed it and sprung into action.
Or he was just keeping tabs on a known and powerful foe, it's quite common, you know. He did not know that a prophecy concerning him was coming. I agree, Voldemort did expect someone that could defeat him was coming, him creating the Horcruxes being proof of this, but he did not know the information would come in the form of a prophecy.

Harry loses that protection the second he turns 17, parseltoungue isn't going to help him at all in a fight with Voldemort and his hatred if anything is a weakness. Dumbledore said it was Harry's capacity for love, not hate that was his strength.
He only loses the protection of his mother's sister's house, the protection which Dumbledore put in place, but the protection of his mother still lingers, in the fact that she sacrificed herself, and Harry still feels love towards her and many others.

He still matched the worlds most powerful wizard using the worlds most destructive spell.
Dumbledore is said to be the most powerful, but now Voldemort might be, concerning Dumbledore's possible death. Yes, Harry did show great skill with his evading of Voldemort's Avada Kedavra, most destructive is debatable, but fatal is pretty much absolute, save for one case that might be repeated.

Voldemort is well aware of his own power and of that of Harry, yet he still views Harry as a legitimate threat to his life. He knows Harry has that level of potential for power.
He sees Harry as a threat because he believes the Prophecy, and at the moment I doubt he sees Harry as much of a threat anymore, more so a spec on his glory for him having defeated, escaped and stalemated Voldemort so often.

Dumbledore took his NEWTs before Voldemort was even born, so any comments on his skills are meaningless when comparing him to Voldemort.
It was to compare him with HARRY, not Voldemort.

In terms of shear power a wizard as powerful as Voldemort is indeed beyond any other wizard, so someone surpassing him would then in turn be beyond any other wizard.
Can you show this to me, that Voldemort is indeed more powerful than Dumbledore? And just because he is extremely powerful in some things, does not mean he automatically is that in others.

People have said Voldemort feared Dumbledore, but he himself has denied this. I think he respected Dumbledores power since Dumbledore was probably the strongest wizard he had ever known other than himself, but that doesn't mean he was afraid of him.
And tell me, do you ever think someone with as much pride as Voldemort will admit to fearing someone? You should re-read the fight with Dumbledore in OotP, I distinctly recall Voldemort showing fear when Dumbledore showed himself.

Not to mention the chapter is called 'The Only One He Ever Feared'.

[Galt]

Well, in my personal belief, given that the overarching lesson that the books try to throw at you is that love is a greater power than any other, Harry's ultimate victory over Voldemort will have relatively little to do with matching him in terms of wizarding ability, and more to do with the fact that Voldemort's followers are bound to him by fear and greed, whereas Harry's are bound by love, and thus very unlikely to desert, as opposed to the Death Eaters. So while I certainly believe that Harry will become a great wizard in his own right, it's hard to see that he will ever grow beyond Dumbledore and Voldemort's level even given a wizard's generally longer lifespan.

That said, Gandalf wins rather lopsidedly. I'm tempted to give him the win just based on how he described the defeat of the Balrog. I mean, he "smote his ruin upon the mountainside." How awesome is that?

[Gaelek_13]

I can't see Harry winning because saying that he could places him on an even pegging(ish) with the Balrog, one of Morgoth's deadliest creations.

As for Dumbledore (Prime)...well...age brings experience so I don't think that Dumbledore being younger would affect his power. We were given no real indication that power is affected by age, merely stamina.

[chaoserver]

Gandalf is a Maiar(for those of you who don't know it's essentially an immortal mini god), also hailed as the wisest Maiar. He has existed for thousands and thousands of years and is hailed as the wisest of his kind, which is saying something.
He may have been confined to the body of an old man, but he tangled with the great Balrog, a terrible entity(that could flick Harry and kill him). After becoming Gandalf the white he even toppled Saruman. Read the book to fully see his power.
Harry is a teenage boy who was rushed into the world of 'magic', learned a few spells, but isn't even a step on the long way up to Gandalfs level.
The answers Gandalf, Harry is irrelevant.

[FireEel]

Gandalf is a Maiar(for those of you who don't know it's essentially an immortal mini god), also hailed as the wisest Maiar. He has existed for thousands and thousands of years and is hailed as the wisest of his kind, which is saying something.
He may have been confined to the body of an old man, but he tangled with the great Balrog, a terrible entity(that could flick Harry and kill him). After becoming Gandalf the white he even toppled Saruman. Read the book to fully see his power.
Harry is a teenage boy who was rushed into the world of 'magic', learned a few spells, but isn't even a step on the long way up to Gandalfs level.
The answers Gandalf, Harry is irrelevant.

Thank you very much. I have read all 3 LOTR, Samaritans and The Hobbit.

And I still think Harry has a chance, if Ginny was allowed to fight with him.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Forgive my ignorance but Olorin (Gandalf's real name) could probably take on the whole HP world is he was at full power

[*uzumaki-naruto*]

"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies...and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not...and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives...the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies..."
This prediction is believed to refer to Voldemort ("the Dark Lord") and Harry Potter (who was born on July 31). At the time it was made, it could have also applied to Neville Longbottom (born July 30).

There is a chance it is neville but its a very low chance compared to harry potter so i am just commenting that but i know its very likely its harry i jst wanted to say it thats all.

[Fenix]

I voted for both since the poll allowed me to

Muhahahaa

[Seany]

Gandalf wins. The stick is mightier than the wand.

[Hangatýr]

"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies...and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not...and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives...the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies..."
This prediction is believed to refer to Voldemort ("the Dark Lord") and Harry Potter (who was born on July 31). At the time it was made, it could have also applied to Neville Longbottom (born July 30).

There is a chance it is neville but its a very low chance compared to harry potter so i am just commenting that but i know its very likely its harry i jst wanted to say it thats all.
It has been explained in the books that the prophecy points to Harry; "and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal," see a scar on Neville's forehead?

[Kakashu]

Harry, being the young wizard as he is, only knows a wide varyity of basic spells and quite a few of major spells. But you notice that those spells are only good in their own special way. Now, most of the spells in the LOTR books are used for going inside the enemies heads, changing their minds, taking them under control, and destroying them in the process. Now, Harry being under that influence, has a slim to none chance. But, he also has some spells that could help counter, but, lacking experiance to use them SO FAR, he has a very low chance of winning.

[Hangatýr]

Harry, being the young wizard as he is, only knows a wide varyity of basic spells and quite a few of major spells. But you notice that those spells are only good in their own special way. Now, most of the spells in the LOTR books are used for going inside the enemies heads, changing their minds, taking them under control, and destroying them in the process. Now, Harry being under that influence, has a slim to none chance. But, he also has some spells that could help counter, but, lacking experiance to use them SO FAR, he has a very low chance of winning.
But still, do you really think Gandalf will go all out against a teenage boy?

[Kakashu]

Of course, it all depends on will power. Plus, if Harry was asking for it, he would still go for it.

[Hangatýr]

Of course, it all depends on will power. Plus, if Harry was asking for it, he would still go for it.
No, it doesn't.

Think of it this way, would Gandalf see Harry, a teenage boy, as such a threat to unleash his full powers upon him?

[Kakashu]

Harry has a way of "losing control" if you didn't notice in the books. Plus, it all depends on Harry's personality, for all we know, Harry could see Gandolf as a threat, and Gandolf would be acting in self defense.

[Higurashi_Satoko]

Gandolf of course!!!

[Kakashu]

That's what everyone is getting at!!!

[Hangatýr]

Harry has a way of "losing control" if you didn't notice in the books. Plus, it all depends on Harry's personality, for all we know, Harry could see Gandolf as a threat, and Gandolf would be acting in self defense.
It's still Gandalf.

And do you even know which situations Harry DID lose control in? I am confident enough to say that my HP knowledge probably exceeds your own.

[Kakashu]

Ok sure, maybe Gandolf would question Harry before fighting, and besides, with Dumbledores death, Harry's train of thought isn't exactly where its suppose to be.

[Hangatýr]

Ok sure, maybe Gandolf would question Harry before fighting, and besides, with Dumbledores death, Harry's train of thought isn't exactly where its suppose to be.
Dumbledores alleged death. In Harry's defence, you haven't stated precisely WHICH versions of both Harry and Gandalf you are using.

[Kakashu]

Ok, right now, we have Gandolf the White, and Harry just ending his sixth year at Hogwarts.

[ydraliskos]

text

1 year, 40 weeks, 1 day, 11 hours

Hang in there!


EDIT:( I am, obviously, referring to your sig/avvy =D)

[Kakashu]

Ok, way off topic.

[Nivek]

he would get his ass kicked

[chaoserver]

The speed at which Harry would be <b>ended</b> is so utterly fast that even talking about it is making me tired.

[Kuya]

Gandalf wins. Becaues he can also use a sword and fight close combat, pretty well too. Harry wouldn't be able to do much. I don't think Harry would be able to take on that fire monster where Gandalf was all like "YOU SHALL NOT PASS".

[Tower Bridge]

Gandalf is like a really powerful wizard.
Harry Potter is cool and all, but who is he in comparison to Gandalf?

Gandalf wins.


Dumbledores alleged death
Huh? You think he could be alive?

[Tsukiyomi]

I'm curious if people are taking into consideration the fact that in the HP universe there exists a multitude of spells to remove weapons from your opponents possession, not to mention a one-hit-kill spell. A single blast of Avada Kedavra and its over for Gandalf.

[Endless Mike]

You have proof this would work on an immortal angelic spirit?

Or that Harry even knows it?

[Tsukiyomi]

You have proof this would work on an immortal angelic spirit?

Or that Harry even knows it?

Do you have proof that it wouldn't work? Avada Kedavra is simply called 'the killing curse', a curse that kills anything it hits upon contact. The only person to ever survive was Harry because he had a protection of love that redirected the spell (since its unblockable).

As for wether or not he knows we, we've seen him use Unforgivable Curses in a single try, the only thing he lacked was intent. Had he had the intent to torture he could have used it flawlessly. Thats what makes Harry such an impressively powerful wizard, his ability to learn spells with ease that would be impossible for many others.

[Hangatýr]

Well, to be honest, Harry did have the intent, giving pain to his Godfather's killer and all?

[Tsukiyomi]

Well, to be honest, Harry did have the intent, giving pain to his Godfather's killer and all?

You have to remember that was the stated reason why he couldn't use it. He was angry, but there is a difference between being angry and actually wanting to torture and cause suffering to someone.

Avada Kedavra as far as we know doesn't require extra intent, its simply an auto-kill.

[Hangatýr]

We do know something, actually. Recall the fake Moody's first lesson? Something about them all using it on him simultaniously and not so much as getting a nosebleed. Given, this can be considered bull, but there's probably some truth to it. All Unforgivable Curses seem to have some requirements, as to be deducted by the phrase 'poorly performed Imperius Curse' in the first chapter of the sixth book, concerning one of the Prime Minister's employees.

Hmm... It wasn't directly stated, more along the lines of; "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she yelled. She had abandoned her baby voice now. "You need to mean them Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it -- righteous anger won't hurt me for long -- I'll show you how it is done, shall I? I'll give you a lesson --", but you have a point.

[Tsukiyomi]

We do know something, actually. Recall the fake Moody's first lesson? Something about them all using it on him simultaniously and not so much as getting a nosebleed. Given, this can be considered bull, but there's probably some truth to it. All Unforgivable Curses seem to have some requirements, as to be deducted by the phrase 'poorly performed Imperius Curse' in the first chapter of the sixth book, concerning one of the Prime Minister's employees.

The Imperius curse is a very different beast, it is a control curse which requires you to control someone 24/7 for long periods of time. Not only that, but you have to be able to impersonate them and have will power strong enough to overpower theres and keep them submissive. Avada Kedavra is a single instant and its over. As for the nosebleed comment, he was talking to 3rd year students, he never expected them to be capable of any advanced spells. Harry is a not a normal student, he mastered the patronus as a 3rd year. A spell many adult wizards cannot perform. That was as a 3rd year student, he is far more powerful now.

Hmm... It wasn't directly stated, more along the lines of; "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she yelled. She had abandoned her baby voice now. "You need to mean them Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it -- righteous anger won't hurt me for long -- I'll show you how it is done, shall I? I'll give you a lesson --", but you have a point.

Once again, a different beast. That curse requires a maintained desire to torture someone, not a brief instant of anger which is what Harry had. She was right, he needed to enjoy causing the pain. He doesn't enjoy it, it was simply a moment of rage he couldn't maintain. Avada Kedavra is an instant death, he need only desire it for that brief moment.

[Endless Mike]

You can't ask me for proof something wouldn't work. You have to prove it would work. That's a basic debating rule called the Burden of Proof. It's impossible to prove a negative.

If you don't know this you really shouldn't even be in a debate.

[Tsukiyomi]

Its a move of INSTANTANEOUS DEATH, a spell that kills anything it hits. We have been told this is how it works, we have NOTHING to the contrary. So considering that this is the sole piece of evidence (and it says it would indeed work), you have to provide evidence that it wouldn't work.

[Endless Mike]

No you're using a no - limits fallacy.

Just because it is expected to kill anything it hits in the HP verse doesn't mean it could kill anything in any form of fiction at all ever.

Gandalf is practically a cosmic being, his body we see isn't even his true form, just a disguise he uses.

You can't ask me for proof something won't work, since that's not how logic works. It's impossible to prove a negative.

You have to prove it would work.

[Hangatýr]

The Imperius curse is a very different beast, it is a control curse which requires you to control someone 24/7 for long periods of time. Not only that, but you have to be able to impersonate them and have will power strong enough to overpower theres and keep them submissive. Avada Kedavra is a single instant and its over. As for the nosebleed comment, he was talking to 3rd year students, he never expected them to be capable of any advanced spells. Harry is a not a normal student, he mastered the patronus as a 3rd year. A spell many adult wizards cannot perform. That was as a 3rd year student, he is far more powerful now.
It'd still require one to know how to perform it properly.


Once again, a different beast. That curse requires a maintained desire to torture someone, not a brief instant of anger which is what Harry had. She was right, he needed to enjoy causing the pain. He doesn't enjoy it, it was simply a moment of rage he couldn't maintain. Avada Kedavra is an instant death, he need only desire it for that brief moment.
And you expect Harry to be able to perform Avada Kedavra with out ever doing it before? Even he has shown to need time to master spells, and even then he can't perform them equally well under every situation.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Its a move of INSTANTANEOUS DEATH, a spell that kills anything it hits. We have been told this is how it works, we have NOTHING to the contrary. So considering that this is the sole piece of evidence (and it says it would indeed work), you have to provide evidence that it wouldn't work.

Generally spells like that are disregarded since we don't know how they work in different universes

You also lack knowledge on the world of LotR. Gandalf died after his battle with the Balrog and returned as the White, and just so you know he was no where near his full power since he was forbidded to fight Sauron with force.

If him and the other Istari came at full power (all 5 of them) then Sauron would be a smocking crater on the ground

[escamoh]

Gandalf would win this I suppose....but it's surprising how much people are underestimating Harry.

Does Gandalf have anything that can block Expelliarmus? Can Gandalf Apparate?

I mean if Gandalf doesn't have anything to block with, Harry could just Apparate behind him and use Stupefy, or anything else that he knows...would Gandalf be able to block that?

[omg laser pew pew!]

People underestimate Gandalf because they generally use the movie version. The book version never really showed Gandalf at his full power and even if it was Gandalf at full power, it's his physical body that is at full power.

As I have said, Gandalf was only allowed to use a small part of his power when helping the elves and humans, he was not allowed to use the full extent of his power. That and he's the wisest of the Maia, second in strength to the Vala who are basically the gods of the world

[_allismine_]

Gotta go with Gandalf on this one.

[escamoh]

Then do we know what Gandalf is capable of at max power?

If not, then why the hell are we debating over this if we've never seen Gandalf at max?

We should just use the version of him that we see in the trilogy.

[Samurai Man]

Then do we know what Gandalf is capable of at max power?

If not, then why the hell are we debating over this if we've never seen Gandalf at max?

We should just use the version of him that we see in the trilogy.yeah man but gandalf still getting this one

[omg laser pew pew!]

Then do we know what Gandalf is capable of at max power?

If not, then why the hell are we debating over this if we've never seen Gandalf at max?

We should just use the version of him that we see in the trilogy.

We don't know what he's capable of because he's but one of the many Maiar spirits that inhabit the world (most of them reside in Valinor) though there are occassional ones on Middle Earth. Sauron is a maia, as is the Balrog and Tom Bombadial and most likely Goldberry (last two are book characters)

Even if you use the one used in the trilogy we still didn't see the full extent of Gandalf's powers, he stated that he is the 2nd most powerful force on Middle Earth right behind Sauron

[escamoh]

But I think for this debate we should just use Gandalf from the trilogy, 'cause Gandalf at full power is just out of Harry's league.

And wow I never knew Tom Bombadial was a Maia...thats crazy.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Well the thing is that Gandlaf in his physical form and the 'magic' of the whole LotR universe is very ambigous

They don't just create fireballs out of mid air like nothing, maybe some of the higher Maiar or Valar could but in generaly it's less magic or more manipulation of their surroundings. For example when the Fellowship attempt to make the pass of Characas (or something) and Gandalf said he needed something to create a fire, he can't make one out of nothing

Then again Gandalf did some major feats such as contend with the Will of Sauron (right after he became the White) and hold back the Nine when he was only the Grey

[escamoh]

I guess this wasn't a good match up from the begging then...

But I'm still confused on somethings. Like would Gandalf the Grey be able to block a spell like Stupefy or Expelliarmus?