SeeD vs. SOLDIER

[Comic Book Guy]

I was always curious as to who would win.

So. . . who does?

And on a different note, which would you join?

[Tsukiyomi]

SeeD = bunch of students learning to be soldiers, missions include kiddie missions supervised by more experience SeeD members.

Soldier, Shinra's most elite of fighters. Cloud couldn't even make it in, he was stuck as a regular foot soldier.

SeeD produced: Squall, Zell, Irvine, Selphie and Quistis...

Soldier produced: Zack, Cloud, Sephiroth

Seems to me that Soldier is far superior, not only do they only accept the elites, they pump those elites full of mako energy to make them even stronger.

[Final Ultima]

SeeD - trained soldiers.
SOLDIER - trained soldiers injected with magical energy generated by the planet, along with the cells of a planet destroying monster.

SOLDIER win.

However, I'd say that SeeD would be a tad more appealing to join. The concept and atmosphere of SeeD and Garden is just...awesome.

[Comic Book Guy]

However, I'd say that SeeD would be a tad more appealing to join. The concept and atmosphere of SeeD and Garden is just...awesome.

Ha ha. . . I definitely have to agree with you on that one.

[escamoh]

SOLDIER would win imo.

But there was a similar thread to this a while ago. It was Galbadia vs SOLDIER I think.

[Powdered Toast Man]

OH NO this is the FF forum all over again....SOLDIER owns them SOLDIERS are trained for warfare of all kinds...SeeD are trained too but they're mostly just college students

Jenova Cells>>>>>>any shit SeeD can throw at them....

And I'd rather join SOLDIER, there's a chance I might end up becoming one of the biggest badasses in Gaming history,

[Comic Book Guy]

And I'd rather join SOLDIER, there's a chance I might end up becoming one of the biggest badasses in Gaming history,

. . . You sure you can survive their regimen?

[Powdered Toast Man]

Honestly...no Id quit after 2 days....*sulk*

[Hangatýr]

Honestly...no Id quit after 2 days....*sulk*
Wuss. :oh

[Tsukiyomi]

. . . You sure you can survive their regimen?

Who knows, you never know what you can do once people give you materia and pump you full of mako radiation.

[Wesley]

SeeDs are trained to use Guardian Forces, which are more practical and less dangerous then the Mako/Cell infusions SOLDIERs recieve. They specialize in one type of weapon, while using the junction system to personally augment and enhance their natural abilities.

The junction system is fairly easy to use once mastered, and provides extradiorary results, when high level spells and Guardian Forces are used. Even relatively normal human beings can gain tremendous power using junctions and Guardian Forces.

I'd say SeeD is the superior fighting force. SOLDIER might have some extremely reputable fighters to it's credit, but they're the exception, not the norm.

[Tsukiyomi]

SeeDs are trained to use Guardian Forces, which are more practical and less dangerous then the Mako/Cell infusions SOLDIERs recieve. They specialize in one type of weapon, while using the junction system to personally augment and enhance their natural abilities.

Soldiers are trained to use materia, which has been shown to be more powerful than anything the junction system has shown (a single piece of materia was going to wipe out life on the planet and another single piece saved it).

The junction system is fairly easy to use once mastered, and provides extradiorary results, when high level spells and Guardian Forces are used. Even relatively normal human beings can gain tremendous power using junctions and Guardian Forces.

So? Normal people can accomplish equally if not more extraordinary things with materia. Imagine having to kill an army of soldiers who have final attack and pheonix, every time you managed to "kill" them, they would come back to life and damage you with fire in the process.

I'd say SeeD is the superior fighting force. SOLDIER might have some extremely reputable fighters to it's credit, but they're the exception, not the norm.

Soldier are the elite of the shinra army, SeeD are just mercenaries. SeeD fought the Galbadian army and all but lost. The main characters of the story may have been powerful, but the rest from what we saw are nothing extraordinary. So don't act like they're "the norm" either.

SeeD is going to have a lot of rookies in it, Soldier does not, they are only elites. Thats why their ranks have seen the likes of Sephiroth.

[Wesley]

Soldiers are trained to use materia, which has been shown to be more powerful than anything the junction system has shown (a single piece of materia was going to wipe out life on the planet and another single piece saved it).

Neither of which could be used on normal circumstances. As way of casting magic, Materia and the drawing method are on par with one another, but nothing Materia has ever demonstrated can match the personal modifications junctions or the field utility junctions can do.

So? Normal people can accomplish equally if not more extraordinary things with materia. Imagine having to kill an army of soldiers who have final attack and pheonix, every time you managed to "kill" them, they would come back to life and damage you with fire in the process.

An ingame exploit doesn't translate to a legitimate comparison. I could just as easily say Selphie uses The End and purges the army's existence entirely. Let's try not to make those kind of comparisons.

Soldier are the elite of the shinra army, SeeD are just mercenaries. SeeD fought the Galbadian army and all but lost. The main characters of the story may have been powerful, but the rest from what we saw are nothing extraordinary. So don't act like they're "the norm" either.

SeeD is a mercenary force. A relatively small one that sends a bare handful of SeeDs into combat that are excepted to route significantly larger armies. As was the case in Dollet, where probably fewer then 20 SeeDs were meant to engage and defeat a Galbandian force that numbered in the hundreds.

The fighters available at the Gardens' battle were primarily students, who hadn't completed their lessons yet vs. a battle hardened Galbadian force that had taken the initiative and were being led by a SeeD washout that knew Garden and had a knack for force deployment. There weren't many true SeeD graduates during that battle, as most of them had been dispersed for missions or were in hidden from the Galbadians.

SeeD is going to have a lot of rookies in it, Soldier does not, they are only elites. Thats why their ranks have seen the likes of Sephiroth.

SeeD is a relatively new organization, but has already earned world-wide recognition as a superior fighting force. They take orphans and turn them into world saving heroes. Squall's group were good, possibly even exceptional, but I don't feel that they were significantly better then other SeeDs, only that circumstances placed them in a position to effect great change.

[Delta Shell]

I think SeeD had some pretty whacky technology though. The gardens and whatnot were awesome. I mean, of course Shinra did too but SeeDs technology just seemed more "futuristic".

Or at least nicer to look at.

[Tsukiyomi]

An ingame exploit doesn't translate to a legitimate comparison. I could just as easily say Selphie uses The End and purges the army's existence entirely. Let's try not to make those kind of comparisons.

Its an ability of materia. Selphie's the end is a limit break that relies heavily on extreme chance and is unique to HER. So you can't use it as any type of basis for all SeeDs. Final Attack and Pheonix are absolute, their effects never fail and materia can be replicated and manufactured at will. Thats the kind of power materia can offer.

SeeD is a mercenary force. A relatively small one that sends a bare handful of SeeDs into combat that are excepted to route significantly larger armies. As was the case in Dollet, where probably fewer then 20 SeeDs were meant to engage and defeat a Galbandian force that numbered in the hundreds.

In the hundreds? Says who? And SeeD backed out after Galbadia got what they wanted. You'll notice that once Zell let it leak that they were from SeeD they all essentially shit themselves knowing that the Galbadian army would walk in their and kill them all.

The fighters available at the Gardens' battle were primarily students, who hadn't completed their lessons yet vs. a battle hardened Galbadian force that had taken the initiative and were being led by a SeeD washout that knew Garden and had a knack for force deployment. There weren't many true SeeD graduates during that battle, as most of them had been dispersed for missions or were in hidden from the Galbadians.

Seifer was more than powerful enough to be in SeeD, it was his policies that kept him out. So he's not just a "washout", you'll notice he always fought you three on one.

I'll bring your attention once again to the point that SeeD seemed terrified of having to actually fight the Galbadian army itself.

SeeD is a relatively new organization, but has already earned world-wide recognition as a superior fighting force. They take orphans and turn them into world saving heroes. Squall's group were good, possibly even exceptional, but I don't feel that they were significantly better then other SeeDs, only that circumstances placed them in a position to effect great change.

First off you don't know how long it took for Soldier to become world famous and respected, so don't pull that shit. Sephiroth alone made Soldier legendary, thats a SINGLE soldier.

I seem to also recall the SeeDs of the future being wiped out with little effort by Ultimecia, so it sounds to me like Squall and his group were indeed significantly better (thus making them the exception to the rule).

We know for a fact that all Soldiers are battle hardened and elite, SeeDs on the other hand can still be rookie nothings just out of garden.

[Delta Shell]

How many people are actually in SOLDIER?

[Ion]

SOLDIER, for the reasons stated, is overall superior to SeeD.

I would rather join SeeD, though, cuz I'd prefer to still be considered human.
How many people are actually in SOLDIER?I don't think that we were ever told how many were in the first class. It couldn't have been many since guys like Cloud were rejected.

HA! I bet Shinra wished that they had gone over his application one more time....

[escamoh]

Well, I don't think all of SOLDIER is elite I think it's only SOLDIER 1st class.

[Ion]

Was Cloud only a 2nd Class? I'm pretty sure that all of the random blue guys that we had to kill over and over again were 2nd Class SOLDIERs.

[escamoh]

Was Cloud only a 2nd Class? I'm pretty sure that all of the random blue guys that we had to kill over and over again were 2nd Class SOLDIERs.

Cloud was never in SLODIER.

In the game we fight all SOLDIER's from 3rd class to 1st class.

[Keollyn]

Okay, what's so special about Jenova's Cell?

[Ion]

Cloud was never in SLODIER.

In the game we fight all SOLDIER's from 3rd class to 1st class.Did he steal the blue uniform then? You know, from the flashback?

[Powdered Toast Man]

What's special about Jenovas cells....you do know that they were trying to create SUPER soldiers with those cells right, They're better than the average human by far, Speed, Strength, Stamina, The works.

SeeD...college Students

[Powdered Toast Man]

Wuss. :oh

*scoff*!!!!!.....how dare you!.

[Keollyn]

What's special about Jenovas cells....you do know that they were trying to create SUPER soldiers with those cells right, They're better than the average human by far, Speed, Strength, Stamina, The works.

SeeD...college Students

Keyword: Trying. I don't see why they're so special.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Ooops I made a mistake...SOLDIES have mako cells not jenova only a few have jenova cells...but even so that still makes them superior to any college student.

[Wesley]

Its an ability of materia. Selphie's the end is a limit break that relies heavily on extreme chance and is unique to HER. So you can't use it as any type of basis for all SeeDs. Final Attack and Pheonix are absolute, their effects never fail and materia can be replicated and manufactured at will. Thats the kind of power materia can offer.

Fine, then how about the SeeDs junction petrify to all their weapons and begin turning the army to stone? Or wait, how about everyone in the army equip Ribbons so status effects no longer work? Or maybe the SeeDs can refine Gilgamesh cards and make themselves invunerable to everything?

Oh and The End is level dependent. The chances improve the higher Selphie's level, so if she's at a really high level, she can cast aura on herself and probably get The End in under 10 seconds if she punches the 'X' key fast enough! Haha! Selphie > All, even boss level enemies like Sephiroth!

In the hundreds? Says who? And SeeD backed out after Galbadia got what they wanted. You'll notice that once Zell let it leak that they were from SeeD they all essentially shit themselves knowing that the Galbadian army would walk in their and kill them all.

If your goal is take over a country, you don't send a few dozen troops.

Dollet accepted their terms. Xu was disappointed that the fighting stopped since it meant less money for Garden. And that was part of the realism of FF8. Even if they were the greatest fighters in the world, a conflict with the world's second greatest military power was an undesirable thing.

That's another thing about the games, the true scope of the world would be nearly impossible to convey since it's well, a world. Galbadia was a ruled by a military dicatorship with hundreds of thousands of soldiers and an industrial infrastructure at it's disposal. SeeD probably had fewer then a 1000 true SeeDs to their credit, with several thousand junior students dispersed throughout the Gardens.

On the other hand, the Galbadian military is probably comparable to the size and scope of SOLDIER, which has Shinra backing. I don't believe that Garden could defeat Shinra with open warfare, due to a lack of numbers and a national backing.

I believe that in terms of effectiveness and education, SeeD is superior. SOLDIER is just bigger then they are and there are some things numbers can do that skill and individual combat ability can't. An Elite Soldier is probably on par with a SeeD in combat ability, but I can't see the Elite of Soldier defeating all of Galbadia, just as I can't see SeeD and Garden defeating Shinra.

Though if it came down to hotdog eating contests or ballroom dancing, I doubt the finest SOLDIER has to offer would stand a chance against SeeD.

[Powdered Toast Man]

you prove a couple of great points....The finest that SOLDIER has to offer is freakin sephiroth man no SeeD can mess with him.

The junction thing can be applied to Materia like Added effect not necessarily with break but it can be effective....and plus VII's materia and Summons own VIII's GF and Magic

Ulitima + Mime + 2x Magic> Ultima
Holy> Apocalypse
3 bahamuts> 1
Master Summon> Eden

And if you're gonna throw any limit breaks into this....Clouds finishing touch=no more enemies in sight

Seph's version of a limit break IMO Super nova= destroys a frickin universe...

And are Turks allowed in this fight?

[Tsukiyomi]

Fine, then how about the SeeDs junction petrify to all their weapons and begin turning the army to stone? Or wait, how about everyone in the army equip Ribbons so status effects no longer work? Or maybe the SeeDs can refine Gilgamesh cards and make themselves invunerable to everything?

Items are a totally different matter, materia to junction in an all out battle materia wins. With materia like W-Summon, mime, quatra magic, final attack and phoenix an army would be all but unstoppable.

Imagine a w-summoned knights of the round mimed by a few dozen soldiers.

Oh and The End is level dependent. The chances improve the higher Selphie's level, so if she's at a really high level, she can cast aura on herself and probably get The End in under 10 seconds if she punches the 'X' key fast enough! Haha! Selphie > All, even boss level enemies like Sephiroth!

Once again, thats her alone. If you want to use a single person to judge the strength of an organization like SeeD then I can use Sephiroth and his power in his supreme form (power to destroy planets) as a basis for all members of soldier.

If your goal is take over a country, you don't send a few dozen troops.

Dollet accepted their terms. Xu was disappointed that the fighting stopped since it meant less money for Garden. And that was part of the realism of FF8. Even if they were the greatest fighters in the world, a conflict with the world's second greatest military power was an undesirable thing.

Their goal was simply to take over the satellite, not the entire country. All they needed was a connection to that antenna.

That's another thing about the games, the true scope of the world would be nearly impossible to convey since it's well, a world. Galbadia was a ruled by a military dicatorship with hundreds of thousands of soldiers and an industrial infrastructure at it's disposal. SeeD probably had fewer then a 1000 true SeeDs to their credit, with several thousand junior students dispersed throughout the Gardens.

On the other hand, the Galbadian military is probably comparable to the size and scope of SOLDIER, which has Shinra backing. I don't believe that Garden could defeat Shinra with open warfare, due to a lack of numbers and a national backing.

How can you compare the size of galbadia and soldier? We've only seen 2 members of soldier and we don't know where the others were sent, we only know that there were enough to them to fight and win the war for shinra.

I'll say it again, SeeD seemed to shit their pants at the mention of the Galbadian army coming to garden. If they were really so powerful they wouldn't have feared them at all.

I believe that in terms of effectiveness and education, SeeD is superior. SOLDIER is just bigger then they are and there are some things numbers can do that skill and individual combat ability can't. An Elite Soldier is probably on par with a SeeD in combat ability, but I can't see the Elite of Soldier defeating all of Galbadia, just as I can't see SeeD and Garden defeating Shinra.

Though if it came down to hotdog eating contests or ballroom dancing, I doubt the finest SOLDIER has to offer would stand a chance against SeeD.

Education? Soldier isn't a school, its an assortment of the most elite warriors in the world. A set so elite that Cloud himself was rejected when he tried to join.

SeeDs are a combination of elites and rookies. A SeeD on par with an elite Soldier? An elite in the group Sephiroth was a member of? Come on.

[Mugendai-Shi]

IIRC, I posted a battle just like this on GameFAQs about 2-3 years ago and what most people said was that the majority of SOLDIER are hired people used as gaurds while SeeD are all trained fighters. but if we include Sephiroth, Zack, the Turks, etc. not even all the highest trained SeeD members will stand a chance :/

so if we're talking just SeeD and SOLDIER in general, then SeeD wins, if we include the people I mentioned above, then SOLDIER wins

and I would join SeeD because it's more comfortable and such

[Tsukiyomi]

IIRC, I posted a battle just like this on GameFAQs about 2-3 years ago and what most people said was that the majority of SOLDIER are hired people used as gaurds while SeeD are all trained fighters. but if we include Sephiroth, Zack, the Turks, etc. not even all the highest trained SeeD members will stand a chance :/

so if we're talking just SeeD and SOLDIER in general, then SeeD wins, if we include the people I mentioned above, then SOLDIER wins

and I would join SeeD because it's more comfortable and such

Soldier just hired people? Eh, no. Shinras normal guards are just hired people, Soldier are their most elite of soldiers. Thats why Cloud couldn't make it, Soldier is there elites.

[Wesley]

According to Wikipedia, SOLDIER was an elite force, not the entire Shrina military as I had thought. Everyone in SOLDIER recieved the Mako/Jenova infusions. There were three classes; 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. So I guess it really does come down to which is better, leaving their backers irrelevant.

Anyway, you must have missed the sarcasm I put into the first couple points you quoted. Saying things like "This combination is invincible!" or "This Summons would destroy the world!" is just so much blathering. It'd be like me saying Eden would literally blast SOLDIER into the sun and make them explode. Try to avoid bringing ingame stuff like that into this arguement.

Otherwise we'd just end up comparing game mechanics, instead of the storyline and organizational details. I mean, if game mechanics really had any relevance to the worlds and organizations, a phoneix down would have saved Aeris. You understand what I'm saying?

And am I to assume that you think SOLDIER by itself could take on an entire country? The reason Zell was reprimanded for speaking of Garden out loud like that was because that is what would precisely happen and ultimately did. You make it sound as though if they won't gladly take on the second most powerful nation in the world, they're worthless, when SOLDIER by itself never had to do such a thing.

[escamoh]

Did he steal the blue uniform then? You know, from the flashback?

Yeah...either that or he took the uniform from Zack.

It's been a while since I played, I don't really remember much.

[Piekage]

When Zack busted Cloud out of the Shinra Mansion basement, he gave Cloud his spare SOLDIER uniform. The reason they feared a Galbadian retaliation would probably be because of their long-range missle base.

Regardless, I don't know enough about SOLDIER size or level of skill to give an answer. Saying they're elites isn't good enough for me, since SeeD is also the elite of they planet. Also, I doubt they have materia like Knights of the Round or Phoenix, since even Sephiroth only had maxed out basic magic.

Lastly @ Comic Book Guy, It depends on what you want. If you want to be trained in a bit of everything and have a more relaxed enviroment, then Garden's for you. Besides, Garden's less picky about registration than SOLDIER is as well.

[Rice Ball]

You only know 3 members of Soldier.
I don't know if you remember the people in Black cloaks with numbers on them, they were 'the' members of Soldier. The only member of Soldier you faught against in the game was Sephiroth. The rest (apart from 1, who was hiding in a tunnel) were killed during the reunion by Sephiroth.

Anyway back on Topic.
I'll split it into 3 battles.

Average troop v Average troop- Soldier wins with ease, every one of them were Mako infused super soldiers, while the gardians might train them well, the SeeD would be outclassed totally.

Army v Army- SeeD have a massive number and technology advantage here, they could attack from the sky using a large number of Gardians. We don't see any of the type of weapons a Soldier uses, Sephiroth was a ground troop, theres no reference to them using Mako technology or anything other than Swords/Guns.

Elites v Elites- I'd class Sephiroth above anything that SeeD has produced. He was world famous.

[GoldenJoe]

sephiroth is the example for what happens if you infuse someone with jenova cells. although they don't work all the time if you can infuse a majority of people with them and they turn out right you could be facing a army of people like sephiroth. and since they don't allways work thats why i would want to be in SeeD

[escamoh]

You only know 3 members of Soldier.
I don't know if you remember the people in Black cloaks with numbers on them, they were 'the' members of Soldier. The only member of Soldier you faught against in the game was Sephiroth. The rest (apart from 1, who was hiding in a tunnel) were killed during the reunion by Sephiroth.

We only know 2 members of SOLDIER 1st class. During the game we fight a LOT of SOLDIER's who are from 3rd class to 1st class. Zack and Sephiroth were the elites in SOLDIER 1st class along with the new guys who are introduced in Crisis Core.

sephiroth is the example for what happens if you infuse someone with jenova cells. although they don't work all the time if you can infuse a majority of people with them and they turn out right you could be facing a army of people like sephiroth. and since they don't allways work thats why i would want to be in SeeD

Sephiroth was different...he had Jenova cells infused in him while he was still in the womb. Cloud and Zack had the cells injected into them when they were captured by Hojo. SOLDIER members have Mako injected into them so I don't think all of SOLDIER has Jenova cells.

[Rice Ball]

We only know 2 members of SOLDIER 1st class. During the game we fight a LOT of SOLDIER's who are from 3rd class to 1st class. Zack and Sephiroth were the elites in SOLDIER 1st class along with the new guys who are introduced in Crisis Core.

Thats not what i remember, You faught normal troops, Not second/third class Soldiers.

Cloud was only in a normal troop uniform because he was a un'numbered jenova failor.

[~ Masamune ~]

Soldiers ftw,Seeds were pretty much losers :s..

[escamoh]

Thats not what i remember, You faught normal troops, Not second/third class Soldiers.

Cloud was only in a normal troop uniform because he was a un'numbered jenova failor.

I just looked in my brother's FFVII guide thingy.

We fight SOLDIER 3rd class in the Shin-Ra Tower.

We fight 2nd class is Junon, the place with the huge cannon.

And we fight 1st class SOLDIER's in Midgar near the end of the game.

They all look weird though, they have helmets on and these swords that look more like lances.

[Rice Ball]

I just looked in my brother's FFVII guide thingy.

We fight SOLDIER 3rd class in the Shin-Ra Tower.

We fight 2nd class is Junon, the place with the huge cannon.

And we fight 1st class SOLDIER's in Midgar near the end of the game.

They all look weird though, they have helmets on and these swords that look more like lances.

hmm thats odd, sure it isn't a translation error or something like a Shrina military Soldier rather than a member or SOLDIER (i know its almost the same but..)

Because if you were fighting them, why did the same also tell you all the members of Soldier were the people in black with the numbers.

[escamoh]

hmm thats odd, sure it isn't a translation error or something like a Shrina military Soldier rather than a member or SOLDIER (i know its almost the same but..)

Because if you were fighting them, why did the same also tell you all the members of Soldier were the people in black with the numbers.

Well, the SOLDIER 3rd - 1st class members had different clothing from the normal soldiers. And they also used swords instead of guns.

The guys in black cloaks were the people Hojo experimented on when he was trying to figure out what Reunion was. They were members of SOLDIER who had Jenova cells in them, but they were all failures of the experiment according to Hojo.

[Tsukiyomi]

They had a different clothing style, but I wonder if thats just a high class shinra army soldier or an actual member of soldier. Zack and Sephiroth never wore those clothes or anything even remotely close. I was under the impression someone in soldier could wear whatever the hell they wanted.

Cloud couldn't make it into soldier, hence why he was still wearing a normal shinra uniform.

[Wesley]

Well, the SOLDIER 3rd - 1st class members had different clothing from the normal soldiers. And they also used swords instead of guns.

The guys in black cloaks were the people Hojo experimented on when he was trying to figure out what Reunion was. They were members of SOLDIER who had Jenova cells in them, but they were all failures of the experiment according to Hojo.

Some of them were Nibelhiem citizens who died/almost died during Sephiroth's freakout. It kind of hints at that when you walk around town after Cosmos Canyon and speak with the cloaked figures there. They were experimented on, just as Cloud and Zack were.

Come to think of it, Cloud's mum was probably among them.

And I think Hojo gave numbers to those whom he considered a success, hence, Cloud not having one.

[escamoh]

They had a different clothing style, but I wonder if thats just a high class shinra army soldier or an actual member of soldier. Zack and Sephiroth never wore those clothes or anything even remotely close. I was under the impression someone in soldier could wear whatever the hell they wanted.

Cloud couldn't make it into soldier, hence why he was still wearing a normal shinra uniform.

From what I've read about Crisis Core, SOLDIER 1st class members were allowed to wear whatever they wanted. That's why Sephiroth and Genesis have different looking clothing.

Some of them were Nibelhiem citizens who died/almost died during Sephiroth's freakout. It kind of hints at that when you walk around town after Cosmos Canyon and speak with the cloaked figures there. They were experimented on, just as Cloud and Zack were.

Yeah I forgot about that. Infact I think they were all from Nibelhiem.